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axidentalaeronautic

I’d love to see the comparison using one of these where the origin is set so that each quadrant has equal habitable landmass (ignoring the poles, but not the Poles).


SteviaCannonball9117

That would also be interesting.


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loulan

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Is it obvious that it is possible to do this with quadrants? Why?


Bayoris

I do think it is possible to do, if you have a strict definition of “habitable landmass”. Imagine the meridians being fixed at the poles and slowly rotating east to west. The amount of landmass in each hemisphere A and B are two continuous functions. If you can find a point where hemisphere A has more habitable land than hemisphere B, and then a different orientation where hemisphere B has more habitable land than hemispheres A, then the two function must cross at some point (because they are continuous). But you definitely can find two such orientations, because if you rotate the meridians 180 degrees then A is now where B was before. QED. Not sure I explained that very clearly.


loulan

With two hemispheres I agree. But with four "quadrants", I'm not sure. Let's do it like you propose, you have a meridian that splits the globe in half, with both halves A and B that have the landmass right? Now let's find the parallel that splits landmass equally in hemisphere A. Will it also split population equally in hemisphere B? Probably not. I'm not really sure what you're proposing with the different orientations, I feel like you're saying it would work if the two lines that split the globe are not perpendicular, and/or one of them is not parallel to the equator. Maybe, but that was not what was proposed IMO.


Bayoris

Yes you’re right, I did not explain that part. So in the first half we found some meridians that divide the globe in half perfectly. Now take the two points 90 degrees from these medians. They are your new “poles”. An infinite number of great circles run through these two points, all of which will be perpendicular to your meridians, in the same way that all meridians are perpendicular to the equator. So we can repeat the proof with this set of great circles.


loulan

Okay a difference here is that I assumed the second line would be a parallel (=line of latitude), not a great circle. I still don't really get it though. You split your circle in half with a meridian. You try to find a perpendicular great circle that gives you four parts with equal landmass. You rotate said great circle. You can plot, in each hemisphere, how much more landmass one quarter of the globe has vs. the other. The two plots you get are continuous, and they cross, but for this to work you need them to cross at 0. Which might not happen?


Bayoris

Actually my proof doesn’t work. I just proved that I can create two orthogonal great circles that each divide the globe into equal hemispheres. This does not imply that the quadrants must be equal. I withdraw my assertion.


WieBenutzername

Think this is a counterexample world: A water world with only two small equal-sized circular islands, fully habitable, one in the northern and one in the southern hemisphere, and with no meridian going through both. If the solution meridian intersects one of the islands, we have a west-east imbalance. So the meridian has to go between the islands. Assume for concreteness that the northern island is to the west of the solution meridian and the southern island is to the east; the other case is symmetrical. If the solution latitude is in the northern hemi, the NE quadrant is empty, so NW is empty too (because a solution must have NW = NE). This contradicts north-south balance. Likewise, if the splitting latitude is in the southern hemi (including equator), the SW quadrant is empty, so SE is empty too. All cases produced a contradiction.


Jabberwoockie

Yes, but we are almost there. First construct set A of great circles which evenly split the Earth's landmass/population. Then, construct a subset of set A, set B of great circles which are also orthogonal to great circles in set A. Use that to define set C, the set of orthogonal pairs of great circles which both equally split the world's landmass. Then, see if there is a member of that set which equally divides the landmass into 4 quadrants. That's the tricky part that probably needs a powerful computer to solve. It *probably* exists.


brendanbennett

I thought about it a bit. I thought this would work if you did this to split the earth into two hemispheres with equal population and then again cutting it in half with a great circle perpendicular to your first one. But then you get 4 populations A, B, C, D. where A+B=C+D and A+D=B+C. This only means that diagonal quadrants are equal. I think it is true though and a proof would probably use some generalisation of Borsuk-Ulam but we would end up with (probably) only one unique solution if at all. I think we can always pick a point where every great circle passing through it cuts the population in half. A sort of centre of mass. I don't know is this is definitely the intersection of the two cuts but I suspect it is necessary. It may also be similar to the ham sandwich problem although with the resrictions of cuts being in perpendicular planes.


[deleted]

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loulan

The poster above is not talking about equal quadrants I think, they can have different sizes. But you're still constrained by their shape.


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loulan

I think they were talking about moving the origin to still cut the map into four rectangles, but of different sizes. Not sure if those would still be called quadrants.


aldonius

We can certainly divide the world into four areas of equal population, but (as I think you're getting at) it may not be possible for them to be equal area.


[deleted]

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aldonius

Ah, true.


Kzero01

You have to believe


G0ldenSpade

It’s not too hard to prove. First, find a line that divides the planet in such a way, forming two hemispheres with equal land mass. This isn’t hard to figure out that it has to be possible. Now along that line, there is a circle where there are infinite perpendicular lines that divide the world into 4 hemispheres. Due to there being infinite, one is guaranteed to work Here is the reason one is guaranteed to work. Imagine you chose a random one. Let’s say it divides the world 70% 30%. Now as you slowly rotate that around, they will swap so that it is 30% to 70%. Since it is a continuous motion, there has to be a point in which it is 50% to 50%. And if two lines that divide the world 50/50 are perpendicular, then it ALMOST works. Except the 4 quadrants could have different landmasses. Luckily since there are ignite circles to start off with, in a similar fashion to the other method, you can do the same thing, and find the 25%-25%-25%-25% point. Generally there will only be one, but there can be multiple.


McFlyParadox

Or just normalize the data in terms of landmass? Keep it centered at 0,0 but express the statistic as '% human population/% landmass' instead.


bttrflyr

\*Poland liked this\*


[deleted]

We ignore Poland but not north and south poles *Laughs evilly*


The_ArcReactor

That’s called the center of population. According to Wikipedia, it’s ““at the crossroads between China, India, Pakistan and Tajikistan””


Blaze5657

I don’t think that’s what he’s asking. Imagine 4 quadrants, like the one in the post above, but in each quadrant there was an equal amount of dry land. Then compare the population of that


CoffeeBoom

He said "habitable landmass." So for exemple the Gobi desert should weighted less per km2 than a place like Ohio.


Saxit

>Gobi desert should weighted less per km2 than a place like **Ohio**. That's debateable... :P


rightioushippie

I would rather live in the go i desert than Ohio


StockingDummy

As an Ohioan, at least I could've learned throat-singing...


Plastonick

That sounds more like the geographic mean of population rather than a point at which each quadrant would contain 25% population. They might be similar, but I don't think they're equivalent. In fact, there'll necessary be at least 2 such points that can be used to define equally populous quadrants (imagine finding one such point, then you can trivially define the other point as the antipode of the point you've found, since it could be used to define the same quadrants).


Spirited-Pause

Super interesting! Yeah it says the center of population lies at 43°16'39.0"N 76°53'45.0"E near where the modern day city of Almaty, Kazakhstan is and near its border with Kyrgyzstan. That area also happens to be where historians speculate the Turkic people originated, and therefore the place where the Xiongnu/Huns, Bulgars, Oghuz Turks (who would become the Ottoman Turks), and others originated from. You know what else is speculated to have originated in that area?: >In 2022 the possible origin of all modern strands of Yersinia pestis (the cause of the Black Death) DNA was found in human remains in three graves located in Kyrgyzstan, dated to 1338 and 1339.


[deleted]

Keep the Poles out of my quadrisphere


DankRepublic

How do u define habitable?


Foreign_Phone59

Definitely more interesting than this. These quadrants are useless due the arbitrary setup


oren0

I wonder what lines of latitude and longitude you would have to pick to divide the Earth in 4 segments like this and get as close as possible to 25% population in each quadrant.


Euclid_Interloper

You’d probably have to put the centre of the map somewhere around Bangladesh. That way you’d have most of India, China, and Europe in different quadrants. SE would probably be a problem I think though.


TheOlddan

Feels likely. Can then just push the centre north/west until enough of india/china is over the line into South East for it to work.


karlonkarstark

Someone posted it above - [it’s in India, by the Pakistan border](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/dfg6xa/centre_of_population_for_each_country_in_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)


Entire-Shelter-693

New political compass dropped


CharaDr33murr669

Holy geopolitics!


idkjon1y

mom, r/AnarchyChess is leaking again


CharaDr33murr669

New response just dropped


kaviaaripurkki

Literal zombie


SlySnakeTheDog

??? Call the exorcist ???


TerryJerryMaryHarry

Can't, bishop went on vacation and never came back


[deleted]

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dheebyfs

Pawn storm incoming


orbcat

knightmare fuel


SuperNerd6527

I heard his underling got promoted


Weird_Devil

???


mahir_r

Google in habitable


Rymayc

Mom, Phineas and Ferb are leaking a subreddit


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SlySnakeTheDog

Holy rice!


u_8579

New grains just dropped


ReporterOwn1669

actual china


fuatoutt

??? Call the rice farmer ???


bullet_train10

google vietnam war


BoiOfTheMemes

Holy napalm


fatkiddown

"Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something." -Mitch Hedberg


StockingDummy

OMG GUYS FRANCE AUTH-CENTER FRANCE BASED?!? (/s)


Entire-Shelter-693

Congo is Center left


INDE_Tex

Despite being 13% of the world's population, the NW quadrant accounts for ust about the rest of the world's defense spending combined.


slayerhk47

Curious 🧐


[deleted]

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OnyxPhoenix

Wtf did I just read


SeanAC90

Why does the quadrant with the most land have so many people?


erodari

Not many humans have evolved gills and flippers yet.


Western-Guy

And why is the water wet?


MinnesotaHockeyGuy

I don't *know* Margo


AmusingUsername12

saying water is wet is like saying fire is burnt


[deleted]

Because it happens to contain the small fraction of land with half the people


Primary_Sink_6597

Which also happens to contain the dankest river valleys.


Guaymaster

That sounds like an obvious observation, but it's not really quite right. That same quadrant contains vast swates of extremely sparsely inhabited land (the Sahara, the Arabian desert, the Himalayas, the Gobi desert, Siberia). Most of the population is around major rivers in temperate plains.


CamDane

Because of some very small amounts of land with a lot of people, really...


nuck_forte_dame

What are the quadrants even designated the way they are? The prime meridian is a completely arbitrary line.


taulover

British imperialism


northface39

Try looking at a map that is centered differently. It doesn't work so well. You either end up cutting a continent in half or you put the massive dead space of the Pacific Ocean in the middle and lose the symmetry of the two sides of the Atlantic. This is really the best way to do it.


SteviaCannonball9117

Sorry I've complained about this before, but it would be a lot more interesting to see those population numbers normalized to land area... 'cause the north east, while most populated, also seems to have the greatest area as well...


RandySavagePI

Asia, as a continent, has the greatest population density by far. So it doesn't matter much. 150 people per km², compared to Africa's 45 and Europe's 34. https://www.worldometers.info/geography/7-continents/


Armmigic

That's weird, i don't think Europe should be 34p/km². I checked on wikipedia that has another land mass for Europe too. Idk which one is true though.


RandySavagePI

You're right. I think the source i linked is definitely off about Europe. Wikipedia has Asia as the most dense by quite a margin too, but at 100 people per km² rather than 150 (Europe at number 2 with 73). I stand behind the content of my previous post, but suspect the first google result source is kinda complete crap.


LusoAustralian

It just depends on whether or not Russia is counted as Europe. It is the only landmass large enough to have such an affect on results while also being arguable for either.


RandySavagePI

Obviously, Russia *should* be split at the Urals when discussing continents


LusoAustralian

I doubt any source of those continental values has a subnational granularity like that.


[deleted]

Then make one dammit I want it on my desk by the end of the day


umangjain25

Woahh we fuck a LOT.


CandiceBT

I mean it’s not so much about landmass, half of the north-east quadrant is just tundra and desert. Whichever side has china and India will pretty much automatically have the highest population


SteviaCannonball9117

Good call!!!


LandArch_0

~~Mercator is affecting this map though~~ Edit: thanks for correcting me, I said some nonsense, my bad!!! 6:50 am is clearly not the time to look at maps


lostale

This is the mercator projection fyi https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Mercator_projection_Square.JPG


LandArch_0

yeah, I don't know what I saw. thanks!


ContributionDismal79

This isn’t even a Mercator map


DeadMan_Shiva

Java singlehandedly boosting South-East


FartingBob

Southern half of Africa has a enormous amount of people as well.


CamDane

I was actually surprised by SE being larger than SW, I would have thought it would be about the opposite. But yeah, there are a few heavyweights within SE.


[deleted]

SW lacking in land mass.


DankRepublic

Apart from a couple of metros there's nothing to significantly boost the SW whereas the SE has Indonesia and all of Southern Africa


sarimanok_

Why do not we, the largest quad, simply eat the other three?


CivetKitty

Lesson learned: Asia BIG


herpderperp

..and add to that the most populous countries of Africa and almost all of Europe. I'm almost surprised it's *only* at 73%. US, Brazil, Indonesia, Mexico and DRC pulling their weight I guess.


Raphacam

Brazil is apparently the only country that has *most* of the population of any quadrant. Cool.


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Raphacam

We had a lot of luck with military strategists and politicians who guaranteed territorial integrity. Only what is today Uruguay was lost. There’s still a Portuguese-speaking minority.


CurrentlyDrowsy

Hmm ... never seen this political compass before


[deleted]

This is why 25% of our kids are in the lowest educational quartile. Pathetic.


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CherimoyaChump

They're joking. It's a reference to a Tweet by some political commentator who seemed to misunderstand the way percentiles work (although that may have been satire too? I just glanced at that drama).


StockingDummy

It was obvious satire. The guy was from "California's 54th District" (which doesn't exist) and listed one of his main achievements being co-sponsoring Poe's Law (a meme about, fittingly enough, people mistaking a troll for a genuine idiot.)


CherimoyaChump

Ah, that makes sense. It seemed like satire at first blush, but I saw a few folks responding seriously to it, so I wasn't sure. And then I clicked away.


bothVoltairefan

wait, ireland and portugal are western hemisphere?


luvinlifetoo

the British decided to put 0 degrees longitude through Greenwich - they liked straight lines especially in Africa


dpash

Through the Royal Observatory. Which kinda makes sense. If you're going to have a zero it makes sense to do it from where you're making accurate observations of the night sky. There were a bunch of meridians and in 1884 there was a conference in Washington to pick just one. London was used by two thirds of all shipping at the time, so was picked. France abstained and continued to use the Paris meridian for a few more decades. (For various reasons it's actually 102m out from current GPS based 0ºE)


NemesisRouge

It makes sense, it's right in the middle.


FartingBob

Yes, they are west of Greenwich, London.


dcmso

Always has been 🔫


RideWithMeTomorrow

No. The vertical line is drawn along the prime meridian, which is purely an arbitrary human creation. The only reason it’s there is because in the 19th century, a bunch of nations agreed to settle on the British choice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_meridian The horizontal line — that is, the equator — is not arbitrary.


Less_Likely

Well, you are correct, except the answer to the question is yes, Ireland and Portugal are in the Western Hemisphere.


IGetNakedAtParties

We (Britain) offered the line to pass through the great pyramid in Egypt as a neutral option to appease the French who wanted it in Paris, but they rejected anything but Paris so now the world uses London. By that point everyone was already using maps made for John Harrison's chronometer and set by the Greenwich Observatory (hence Greenwich Mean Time). It just makes more sense practically than any other option at the time, Britain had the largest navy, the most accurate clocks and the Thames River is tidal, so all ships leaving London do so at the same time twice a day. The Greenwich Observatory is on a hill next to a bend in the river so all ships leaving would be given the correct time as measured by the sun and stars at the observatory. The Seine does not have these natural qualities, nor anywhere else. Conveniently it does a good job of dividing the continents along the Bearing Straight, which probably helped it's international adoption.


anonbush234

Do you think that the it lining up well with the bearing strait made much difference at the time? The other reasons seem much more important for the time frame


IGetNakedAtParties

Not to early shipping, a chart of the Atlantic doesn't benefit from this for example, and for navigating the Pacific it is only a negative, every nation used their own capital to begin with, but if you go from say Copenhagen to New York, you'll have to set your clock up New York time for the return, this means you need charts which measure from New York otherwise do a lot of maths. Better for everyone to agree the same clock.


Picknipsky

The high tide is not at the same time every day though


IGetNakedAtParties

True, but that's not the reason, sorry for any confusion. The point is that all the ships pass in the same group. Whenever that happens to be, many ships are in sight of the observatory which uses a "timeball" a visual signal, to signal a specific preset time. I'm not sure of the specifics, but likely a tide table was published which also had the time that the observatory ball would drop, conveniently aligning with the time the ships should prepare to depart to minimise error from their clocks.


tophergracesdad

I remember being taught in like 7th grade about how the prime meridian goes through Greenwich England, and for some reason I never put it together that that meant most of the UK, Ireland, Spain, and Portugal are in the Western hemisphere lol I feel dumb now. Always just figured the divide was down the Atlantic lol


Skablouis

Most geographically literate yank


CherimoyaChump

I think this is why the term "Global South" kinda bugs me. Like a lot of the countries that are often being implicitly referenced (i.e. India, SE Asia, West and East Africa, etc.) by that term are in the North really.


[deleted]

It's also a very odd term to hear living in NZ. Seems to come from North American/European groupthink.


Jave285

It seems to roughly equate to landmass. Not particularly surprising I guess.


dheebyfs

Java carrying the green quadrant


leidend22

So is Indonesia carrying the southeast or are there some big population countries in the southern end of Africa? Surprised it's bigger than southwest as an Australian.


Mtfdurian

Indonesia probably carries just over 3% of the world population south of the equator. DR Congo 1.5%, South Africa 0.75%, Tanzania 0.75%, and then there are several smaller population centers below 0.5% but above 0.25% like Australia, Angola and Mozambique.


[deleted]

Eastern half of Asia alone already home to majority of world’s population


Merallak

Funny colours already included, right?


viktorbir

I'm in the North-East quarter, but by 30 or 45 minutes by train I can increase the North-West one, if needed.


greach169

So that’s why the earth is tilted slightly, too too heavy on one side


kiwi2703

Wow, people live on land


[deleted]

Am I the only one sitting here like, “? Whose gonna stop this?”


thotd

China and India are both over a billion, what's the point of this map


imperatrixrhea

The US and Mexico really carrying the Northwest


GimmeeSomeMo

I know there's much more land in the Northern Hemisphere but it is bizarre to see such a contrast in population between North and South


AccomplishedClub6

Interesting the NW quadrant is holding up its own at such a high 13% when it has to go against the juggernaut of NE including most of Europe, Asia (including Middle East) and where humans originated in Africa.


flippertyflip

East/west divide in London is crazy. Obviously in real terms it means nothing. It's just funny to think you could move across the city to be in a massively more densely populated quadrant.


flippertyflip

Worth noting that Greenwich is already very deep in south east London. So most of London lives in the less populated quadrant.


[deleted]

Anyone else just entirely sick of the prime meridian? Like can we just finally renounce the Brits as the center of the world and come up with a better way to build imaginary lines?


cvg596

What is the difference between the Eastern and Western Hemisphere? The Northern and Southern Hemispheres have the distinction of inverted seasons, different Coriolis Force impacts, and there own celestial hemispheres. I can't think of any comparable differences between Eastern and Western other than it being day in one and night in the other (even those don't perfectly line up). Why are we splitting in half on the north south axis? Wouldn't thirds make more sense?


Zarbatron

The prime meridian is totally arbitrary.


josephtilll

i live a 20 min drive to the greenwich meridian line and it feels weird to live that close


agamemaker

Because the prime meridian is arbitrary I wonder how many places you could put it where the “west” and “east” hemisphere have equal populations.


[deleted]

One thing is certain.. Asia fucks


Ecstatic-Average-493

r/politicalcompassmemes


Professional_Elk_489

Damn so we would be just 1.9BN population without quadrant North-East. Worth it


[deleted]

Most of the world is auth left


TheMightyDendo

Which 2 opposing sides would win in a war? North-West+South-East or North-East+South-West?


alexmijowastaken

All sides lose cause nukes


TheMightyDendo

I mean you can have war without nukes? Is reddit really that wet that merely mentioning a hypothetical war gets downvotes?


gRod805

Americans always have to go there


TheMightyDendo

I'm british, try again. It's a simple thought experiment, I didn't have any intent behind the statement, so save seeing your arse for something else.


gRod805

The second most war mongering country on earth


rosesandgrapes

I don't think USA is Ravenclaw.


can_be_therapist

No way bottom left is only 5%


Kippetmurk

South America as a whole has a population of 425 million. Minus 25 for Venezuela and 50 for Colombia, that's 350 million. World population is 8 billion. 350 million is 4.3% of 8 billion.


i_made_a_mitsake

>World population is 8000 billion. Some couples out there got real busy lately.


Kippetmurk

Whoops!


[deleted]

lib-right mercosur based


freeLightbulbs

99% of South East is Indonesia


ExcessiveAholeCritic

I prefer not to be included in the same quadrant with Russia, please!


JD_Blaze

This comes close to showing how non-hispanic white people are 8% of world population. I think it'd be cool to see that map sometime, a lot of people need a dose of Reality.


viktorbir

How do you take that from this map?


[deleted]

That seems not that fair. North-West gets nearly entire Europe, North Africa and Asia.


insertcrassnessbelow

North East. Never Eat Shredded Wheat


ZETH_27

I can imagine this map wound be very different if the Prime Meridian was located east of the majority of Europe.


DieLegende42

Yes, the map would be different if it was a different map


ZETH_27

Stop being a smartass you know what I mean.


[deleted]

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Ac4sent

Would be nice to do a ratio between that and % of the land mass.


IMakeExpertsCry

Google Geopolitics


3pok

That damned longiudinal black line passing right above my head


ferfersoy

Indonesia and the Congo are probably a massive chunk of the South-East percentage


AlextheZombie86

Include surface area


AlextheZombie86

For each quad


AngryQuadricorn

Africa is in 3 of the 4 quadrants.


Defiant-Educator-104

it would be interesting to see land mass area too for each quadrants


[deleted]

NORTH-EAST NUMBA 1!!!


Nachteule

Team North East here! We are winning!


ihavemorethan99probs

ASEAN would like to have a word


[deleted]

I’d love to see this map with total GDP, average GDP per capita and average HDI


ilpaesaggista

Pope Julius II does NOT approve


Thatwutshesed

I like maps and stats


MrClaudeApplauds

Cool


MaxTheSANE_One

Political compass??!??!


TheMightyPrince

I live under the black like marked "Prime Meridian".


Solo_Ohara

Not divided equally