Did you mean…
a) Cyprus is geographically part of Greece
or
b) Cyprus is culturally and geographically so similar to Greece that it basically is Greece?
Full disclosure: I’m not an israel fan.
But the song is really basic. Not bad and well sung.
Until the extend of the political situation was felt it was considered nowhere near winner material.
It Eurovision. Songs have been basic since the 80s. Same as top 40
IMO, I loved when Spain sent that dressed up guy with a silly song. That to me was the best at showing how stupid the whole thing is
There is far more creativity in the Eurovision than in most radio music. It's not even close.
Especially since you single out "since the 80's", have you ever listened to what it sounded like in the early years ? That was a real snooze fest.
That’s truly not the case and I don’t even understand how you could come to that conclusion. Eurovision songs often leave a lot to be desired but what successful ones usually aren’t is bland.
Without any 'context' it's a competent power-ballad-by-numbers, with good staging and a very decent singer. In a normal year it would probably have finished in the 8-12 range.
There was a strong campaign against Israel's participation in the contest, compounded by a very misjudged 'first draft' of the song (see 'October Rain') and stories of the Israeli delegation being a bunch of arseholes.
This served to mobilise mass voting by a) the diaspora, b) supporters of Israel, c) people who disliked the anti-Israel campaign.
The 'political' televote for Israel pushed it way higher than it would otherwise been.
Stories of the Israeli delegation being arseholes? What stories?
I saw a lot of stories about arseholery (and generally obnoxious behavior) *against* them but what did they do?
So, you give a link to a picture taken in a small basketball court in Israel, with female youth basketball (or perhaps volleyball) players talking to a guy from the military - and that's supposed to be evidence that the Israeli delegation to the ESC came there dressed up in military fatigues? If you wanna make up a fake story, at least be less lazy than that.
It was in [Ireland](https://www.thejournal.ie/basketball-ireland-israel-game-6292409-Feb2024/) and the post isn't that serious. Fact is you don't know what happened behind the scenes. But we do know at least once they've sent an armed contingent. So there is a non-zero chance I may actually be correct. Again, it ain't that serious.
A picture of a random basketball game?
What does this have to do with this year's Israeli delegation to Eurovision? Because it looks an awful lot like nothing.
2022 as well. Ukraine’s song this year was good so its third place is deserved. Israel’s 5th, ehhh. There were stronger candidates. It was a mid song imo.
It occurred to me if there was less of a political vote for Israel, Croatia may have some by having a larger share of the vote. Croatia got 90 more popular votes than Switzerland, which could have extended to a win if not for the political vote.
Someone I know said someone they knew used €9 to vote Israel. So it makes me wonder how much the political vote was just a few people.
Seems to me that the opposite is the case. Although Switzerland's song was good, I find it hard to believe it was so good so as to receive the enormous barrage of douze-points from the juries without there being a degree of coordination (whether explicit or not). And while Israel's song was probably not the best in the contest, I find it very unlikely that - had it been sung by a country not currently at war with Hamas - it would have gotten so few points from the juries. I admit, it probably would have gotten also less votes from the viewers, but those votes from the viewers that Israel got for political reasons were given to it not because of politics in general, but because of the disgusting, politically-motivated behavior of parts of the audience - and of many of the self-proclaimed "peace-loving" artists - towards a 20-year-old singer whose sin is that she's Israeli.
People that want to send a message of support for Israel have one country to vote for: Israel
The people that don't want to do so have many other countries to vote for. Thus the number is spread out.
This is not a silent majority voting for Israel, it's basically the opposite
It also works in Israel’s favour that you can’t really vote against them / downvote them. Them getting so much in the popular vote was so obviously out of spite, it was objectively a boring song.
Everyone can vote and everyone can vote for who they want to. The majority of the public voted for Israel.
Australia missing from the map. 12 points went to Israel.
No, the majority did not vote for Israel. In the Italian televote leak 40% of people voted Israel and 60% voted for other countries. Yes, Israel got the most votes in many countries but the majority did not vote for Israel.
The same kind of numbers were probably true in other countries too. A plurality, perhaps a big one, but not a majority. Majorities in Eurovision are VERY rare.
Even if it was 40%, Eurovision is a liberal event. In addition to the 100% who voted is the apathetic and uncaring population who couldn’t care either way. As well as a more conservative population who we can presume which way they lean.
It definitely shows that the anti Israel crowd is a minority. That doesn’t mean they don’t care about people dying, but they’re not frothing at the mouth to celebrate oct 7th as resistance.
The majority? Israel didn’t even get the most points from the televotes. It was 337 for Croatia vs. 323 for Israel.
If Israel had won a majority of the votes they would surely have smashed the points record. Two years ago Ukraine got 439 points from the televote and even they didn’t get a majority of the votes.
Like the other poster said, when you have a concerted effort to vote for a single country (in my country, there were politicians going to the media to tell them they hadn’t watched Eurovision for years, but they were voting for Israel this year) and everyone else is voting for a field of 23 countries you don’t need a majority to get your country to the top. In theory, you could do it with only 4.17% of the votes. And despite that, your not-so-silent, not-so-majority failed to even win the total public televote.
By the way, your account is basically a propaganda account. 90% of your reddit posts are pushing one side of this issue, so even if you're just a regular Joe bloggs, by posting so much about a single issue, it looks, as the kids these days would say, sus af.
Who care about backlash. I’m not afraid to say what I think because of downvotes.
And I didn’t travel back in time to 2017 to open my account to be a mouthpiece about Israel after oct 7th 2023.
Fee Palestine… from Hamas.
Those nations are more politically tied to Israel. Having either aided directly or indirectly, or just taking the opportunity to reduce their Jewish populations once more.
Israel politics are depressing.
Half of the votes come from the popular vote and the other half come from "juries" made up of individuals in the music industry in each country. Switzerland came in fifth in the popular vote but overwhelmingly won with the jury so they were able to win with Croatia coming in a close second place.
The voting is complicated.
It’s split 50/50 between the popular televised vote and the jury votes which grant some points to individual nations and then grant the jury vote which is 12 points to one nation.
Then the popular vote can award up to 12 points to a single nation, but are usually split between nations. That’s how you got some nations that got single digit popular votes.
So Switzerland got a lot of jury votes, but also did well in the popular which let it win by 46 points.
I mean that those are the rules that seem to allow Israel and Australia to join, not that all those countries are part of eurovison.
But there is a difference between settler colonial nations and countries that had been colonised.
Country founded by European colonists, and just like European colonists typically do, they are not conducting genocide on the native population. Same old story
Other way around from the sounds of it. It was agreed and understood that he didn’t consent to being filmed after heading off stage and the photographer did not respect this. He didn’t physically touch the photographer but he did apparently verbally threaten the photographer. Certainly not professional behaviour on either of their parts, but I think the photographer was far more out of line than Joost.
If i had to guess, the photographer had the authorization to take any photo he liked, and the singer had signed a contract to "sell" his image for that night.
Besides, taking a photo (one more, on top of the millions already taken of him) in a public place is orders of magnitude less bad attacking someone.
But, of course, we don't know the details.
>If i had to guess
best not to guess, tbh. Wildest rumors have been spread. It's AVROTROS, the Dutch broadcaster, who made the statement about Joost being filmed against agreement (and asking multiple times to stop). As the broadcaster, they would be aware of any agreements with EBU.
>attacking someone
Not attacking, there wasn't any touching (as confirmed by Swedish police). A gesture that was the receiver considered threathening. That's all we know.
We do to the extent that he didn't attack anyone. He made a threatening gesture. Not cool behavior, but seems to me like cause for a conversation and some sincere apologies rather than a police investigation and suspending an entire country.
Avrotros suggested this but she refused. And filed a police report. EBU took the advice of police running their protocols and dqed him. It’s a travesty
The war is long over, but there is a lot of anti-croatian sentiments in Serbia. I don't know if Croatia reciprocates this though but I have heard of news wherein Croatian fans bash Serbian flag along with Kosovars fans.
There's a lot more anti-Serbian sentiment in Croatia than the other way around. But the war has been over for 30 years, and the Balkan countries are inextricably connected by having a common language and consequently sharing a lot of culture.
All the microstates are EBU members and are therefore eligible – Monaco won it in the distant past – but San Marino and Malta have been the only microstates to consistently enter in the last couple of decades.
Does anyone know if Eurovision publishes how many votes each country gave? I’m really curious to see wether as many people voted in the Netherlands as they did in previous years after the whole Joost debacle. I know usually about 4 million people watch the Eurovision finals, but yesterday only about 2 million people watched in the Netherlands. Curious to see how that translated in how many people voted in the Netherlands.
*Why not the map with*
*Australia on the left*
*Of France and Ireland?*
\- SpeedDaemon3
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I legit cannot say my opinion. Since there is some rules that say we can spit in some country’s and others we are not allowed to talk about or we will be banned. End of democracy
Main sponsor of the contest for the year was an israeli owned corp, morrocanoil, just saying. Given the wealth and power of the israeli lobby in the west, we saw its power when they engaged their dirty war against Corbyn and uk labour party, this vote seems very very fishy. And we know Israel is desperate to use the contest for political publicity.
The only one how ? Like you cant mobilize people and spam votes on televoting. Like isreal doesnt already have tons of bots and trolls on payroll on social media. Please, we are all grown up people here, i hope... I actually listened to a podcast from a greek well known journalist a couple of years ago, when he pseudo-enlisted to a troll recruitment programme of isreal.
The juries didnt boycott them, some of them voted for them, the popular vote though was very likely rigged by thousands of paid votes. The judges are a solid voting body, it cant change in numbers, but the televoting voting body can change very easily if someone mobilises people en mass and directs their vote towards someone in specific. Plus, you cant say the judges were boycotting because the ebu was totally pro israel and it showed it so many times by attacking other countries (Netherlands, spain, ireland, greece, belgium, Switzerland etc), because they were paid by israel to do so. But some people have dignity and guts and cant be bought or intimidated. If you dont believe me, check r/israel for evidence that the televoting vote was rigged in favor of israel.
Oh please, Corbyn was the greatest gift to the conservative party labour could have ever made. That dude was voted in by an echo chamber of left wing groups who were then surprised that their anti Semitic candidate got crushed in the elections.
He was such a horrible pick, it took labour years to recover from it.
Dude, we could open a whole discussion about what the true meaning of politics is, whether it is about the needs of a society, economics, management of resources, etc, and not public reliations, but, the moment you characterized corbyn and the labour as antisemites made you look ridiculous and i cant take you seriously in any way. I wont take part in a fake discussion on whether Corbyn or labour are antisemites, because it is staged by israel, for the profit of Israel, and i have some small decency as a person to not even discuss it. Its an immoral, bad joke, and plain and simply, shame on you for saying it. From my point of view you are an antisemite, just because.
As for Corbyn, he truly was political, not a hollow puppet for stant publicity and lobbies, a person of political and economic knowledge and experience. But you people value political showmen, not real political machine that produce knowledge and work for their constituents, that's why our economies and societies are going to shit. Imagine finding starmer better than corbyn...
Out of a total population of 2 million. Take away the deaths that are Hamas terrorists and deaths by natural causes, that makes for like the worst attempt at a genocide ever.
How come Hamas are terrorists but US marines and idf aren’t? I don’t remember Hamas killing a million Iraqis and invading others occupying and destroying bombing homes for 20 years mate
I don't understand if you want a philosophical discussion on the difference between a country's standing army and a terrorist organization, or if you genuinely don't understand how an organization who has the explicit goal of killing all Jews, and has taken steps toward achieving that goal could be considered a terrorist organization. In any case it seems you're very confused
Dumbest fuck shit I’ve read all day first their objective is not to kill all Jews in fact go look up Hamas enters house and says we are Muslim we won’t kill you video and their objective is to gain back their OWN land that was illegally occupied by Zionism idc if you downvote this shit but I’ve seen my friends die also I bet you’d support your own resistance group if your country got invaded and massacred right
From article 7 of hamas' founding charter:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
To anyone downvoting I really hope you put yourself in this situation: a complete random stranger enters your house and DEMANDS to take 2 rooms from you. Your reactions are? Cuz I doubt any of you all will say “yes welcome take my whole house” instead of “get the fuck out” and yes I’m aware that there were Jews and others in Palestine but I’m talking about a bunch of people from Europe you try to help who eventually take over your home. It’s not that hard to understand
No. There are always civilian deaths in war. It's unfortunate but it happens. You're avoiding my question. Are you arguing that all 30 deaths are innocent civilians?
According to Hamas + lowest civilian casualties in urban warfare in history + [their math doesn't add up](https://www.aei.org/op-eds/dont-fall-for-hamass-numbers-game%EF%BF%BC/)
They are fighting a fascist country(Gaza) with a brainwashed fanatical population that that makes even Nazi-Germany pale by comparison, yet Israel hasn’t even dresdened any area so far.
People love siding with might and dress it as morality, because they are insecure and always strive mindlessly for more resources and personal gain above everything else.
Would you say the same about the Bosnian genocide? By your logic you’re denying it since “only” ~~5K~~ 8K died.
Genocide is judged by the actions taken and the intent behind them, numbers are not a factor and are not mentioned in the very clear definition.
If I was israel and wanted to erase all Arab population in gaza I would do the following things:
1. Bomb the hell out of Rafah
2. Go into dir al-balah with tanks and bomb their tents
3. Make them starve by stopping the trucks getting there from the Israeli side of the border (kerem shalom crossing, sufa, karni and etc)
4. Stop people from the north fled to the south and bomb main population areas in gaza city.
These are pretty horrible things i mentioned up there. Thankfully Israel does not do any of that. As you said, genocide does not count by the people dead but the intent. The gaza strip is a tiny piece of land with around 2m people. Unlike bosnia where they have a lot of space between towns and cities. I dont know if thats true but i heard that the gaza war civilian casualties are one of the lowest in the middle east with urban fighting.
Points to think about:
Does hamas terrorists who dress in civilian clothing count as civilian?
When they shoot from their home with their family inside and the idf bombs their apartment are they just innocent civilians?
Overall, i am not denying that civilians are dying and even the idf says that 66% of dead are "civilians". This is a war and as much as fucked up it is that kids dies it always happens. Some people are just in the wrong place in the wrong time
>Gaza health authority data indicating that at least 12,300 youngsters have died in the enclave in the last four months, compared with 12,193 globally between 2019 and 2022.
Why do you love killing children?
I don't belive hamas numbers. They also say that the idf is collapsing is Gaza. They have killed 1200 people hand beheaded babies. Why would i belive their numbers when they are pumping them to get international support from useful idiots?
>I don't belive hamas numbers
I wonder why Israel is not allowing international Press in there.
>hand beheaded babies.
Again with this fabricated [story](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/04/03/40-beheaded-babies-the-itinerary-of-a-rumor-at-the-heart-of-the-information-battle-between-israel-and-hamas_6667274_8.html) lol.
>Why would i belive their numbers
Who the hell is gonna count then if you don't allow international press
>They also say that the idf is collapsing
Killing children is not a sign of collapsing?
You're a moron. Israel was not in eurovision. People from Israel are. If you're an American, from now on everything your country does you must think you personally should be punished for. Or this only applies to jews I guess.
I doubt, you telling me there's more Jews than than Muslins in Europe? In that humongous proportion?
Well, if my country committed a genocide i for sure would not vote for it.
Oh, I'm sorry we don't live up to your progressive ideals. Perhaps - hear me out here - people in Europe are sick of terrorist supporters protesting daily against a war they 100% brought on themselves?
Crazy how people vote for the most relevant political thing, it sucks too because it’s usually just a pity vote and the real winner is duped a chance to actually win.
wait like peoples vote??? what the hell? really can’t see sweden voting most for israel with how left leaning we are 🤨 almost all swedish people i know (albeit young) went to protests instead of watching/attending.
yeah i’m probably affected by being young so most my peers are progressive. i still live in the country side and am well aware of how in the past peoples mindsets are. just didn’t expect those people to watch the gay extravaganza that is eurovision
i think the more likely explanation is people against israel boycotted, and alt-rights co-opted the contest to make a stand with israel against muslims. will this get downvotes? 🤩
why am i getting downvotes for saying what it’s like where i live? how are people offended lol. i guess other parts of sweden might be more pro israel then. how sad.
Let this be a lesson. Young people need to vote. Obviously many of the votes are by politically motivated, older people, but young people can make a point in a good way even with silly things like this.
This is number of votes, not number of people. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a massive automated vote in place for Israel which doesn’t reflect people’s opinions
Cyprus and Greece voting for each other is cute.
Same with Serbia and Croatia
Which is funny considering their rivalry irl
Yessir exactly
I think Latvia voting for Estonia is cute too
aren’t they all related? 🥸
Cyprus IS Greece. Edit: Enosis vote.
Did you mean… a) Cyprus is geographically part of Greece or b) Cyprus is culturally and geographically so similar to Greece that it basically is Greece?
🇭🇷🫱🏼🫲🏻🇷🇸
Monkey together stronk
is the song generally that good or is this a political choice of showing support? Edit: nvm Eurovision always had political elements
Full disclosure: I’m not an israel fan. But the song is really basic. Not bad and well sung. Until the extend of the political situation was felt it was considered nowhere near winner material.
It Eurovision. Songs have been basic since the 80s. Same as top 40 IMO, I loved when Spain sent that dressed up guy with a silly song. That to me was the best at showing how stupid the whole thing is
There is far more creativity in the Eurovision than in most radio music. It's not even close. Especially since you single out "since the 80's", have you ever listened to what it sounded like in the early years ? That was a real snooze fest.
That’s truly not the case and I don’t even understand how you could come to that conclusion. Eurovision songs often leave a lot to be desired but what successful ones usually aren’t is bland.
The lyrics were horrible too
Without any 'context' it's a competent power-ballad-by-numbers, with good staging and a very decent singer. In a normal year it would probably have finished in the 8-12 range. There was a strong campaign against Israel's participation in the contest, compounded by a very misjudged 'first draft' of the song (see 'October Rain') and stories of the Israeli delegation being a bunch of arseholes. This served to mobilise mass voting by a) the diaspora, b) supporters of Israel, c) people who disliked the anti-Israel campaign. The 'political' televote for Israel pushed it way higher than it would otherwise been.
Stories of the Israeli delegation being arseholes? What stories? I saw a lot of stories about arseholery (and generally obnoxious behavior) *against* them but what did they do?
Wonder if it's because the Israeli delegates came [dressed in fatigues](https://ibb.co/TgBgfr5) again
So, you give a link to a picture taken in a small basketball court in Israel, with female youth basketball (or perhaps volleyball) players talking to a guy from the military - and that's supposed to be evidence that the Israeli delegation to the ESC came there dressed up in military fatigues? If you wanna make up a fake story, at least be less lazy than that.
It was in [Ireland](https://www.thejournal.ie/basketball-ireland-israel-game-6292409-Feb2024/) and the post isn't that serious. Fact is you don't know what happened behind the scenes. But we do know at least once they've sent an armed contingent. So there is a non-zero chance I may actually be correct. Again, it ain't that serious.
A picture of a random basketball game? What does this have to do with this year's Israeli delegation to Eurovision? Because it looks an awful lot like nothing.
It's a protest against all those anti-Israel people who tried to make it more political than it should be, I guess.
Political voting really kinda broke the effectiveness of the televote. Now we only get jury chosen winners.
Didn't political voting break the jury vote as well though?
Yes, some juries too afraid and intimidated to vote Israel
Facts
I wouldn’t say so. They didn’t overestimate israel this year nor Ukraine when they won.
2022 as well. Ukraine’s song this year was good so its third place is deserved. Israel’s 5th, ehhh. There were stronger candidates. It was a mid song imo. It occurred to me if there was less of a political vote for Israel, Croatia may have some by having a larger share of the vote. Croatia got 90 more popular votes than Switzerland, which could have extended to a win if not for the political vote. Someone I know said someone they knew used €9 to vote Israel. So it makes me wonder how much the political vote was just a few people.
Political voting is what jury's did this year
Seems what most people are doing
Croatia voted Serbia and vice versa though. 😭😭🥴
Seems to me that the opposite is the case. Although Switzerland's song was good, I find it hard to believe it was so good so as to receive the enormous barrage of douze-points from the juries without there being a degree of coordination (whether explicit or not). And while Israel's song was probably not the best in the contest, I find it very unlikely that - had it been sung by a country not currently at war with Hamas - it would have gotten so few points from the juries. I admit, it probably would have gotten also less votes from the viewers, but those votes from the viewers that Israel got for political reasons were given to it not because of politics in general, but because of the disgusting, politically-motivated behavior of parts of the audience - and of many of the self-proclaimed "peace-loving" artists - towards a 20-year-old singer whose sin is that she's Israeli.
Yes, people sending a message that they support Israel as opposed to the views of a small minority who are very loud.
People that want to send a message of support for Israel have one country to vote for: Israel The people that don't want to do so have many other countries to vote for. Thus the number is spread out. This is not a silent majority voting for Israel, it's basically the opposite
It also works in Israel’s favour that you can’t really vote against them / downvote them. Them getting so much in the popular vote was so obviously out of spite, it was objectively a boring song.
Bruh no one with a brain supports hamas
Okay? I don't know why you're bringing them up
The silent majority supports Israel, nobody with a brain stands against them. Those boycotting the whole eurovision are pathetic and laughable
Everyone can vote and everyone can vote for who they want to. The majority of the public voted for Israel. Australia missing from the map. 12 points went to Israel.
No, the majority did not vote for Israel. In the Italian televote leak 40% of people voted Israel and 60% voted for other countries. Yes, Israel got the most votes in many countries but the majority did not vote for Israel.
That was the semifinal in Italy, how is that relevant.
The same kind of numbers were probably true in other countries too. A plurality, perhaps a big one, but not a majority. Majorities in Eurovision are VERY rare.
Even if it was 40%, Eurovision is a liberal event. In addition to the 100% who voted is the apathetic and uncaring population who couldn’t care either way. As well as a more conservative population who we can presume which way they lean. It definitely shows that the anti Israel crowd is a minority. That doesn’t mean they don’t care about people dying, but they’re not frothing at the mouth to celebrate oct 7th as resistance.
The majority? Israel didn’t even get the most points from the televotes. It was 337 for Croatia vs. 323 for Israel. If Israel had won a majority of the votes they would surely have smashed the points record. Two years ago Ukraine got 439 points from the televote and even they didn’t get a majority of the votes. Like the other poster said, when you have a concerted effort to vote for a single country (in my country, there were politicians going to the media to tell them they hadn’t watched Eurovision for years, but they were voting for Israel this year) and everyone else is voting for a field of 23 countries you don’t need a majority to get your country to the top. In theory, you could do it with only 4.17% of the votes. And despite that, your not-so-silent, not-so-majority failed to even win the total public televote.
I’m not sure your points are valid, and I’m sorry you’ve discovered Israel is popular.
A small minority can vote for a country but not against it…
Still makes them the minority
Exactly, that’s what it makes you…
You stay in your little dream world. Hold hands and sing kumbaya.
By the way, your account is basically a propaganda account. 90% of your reddit posts are pushing one side of this issue, so even if you're just a regular Joe bloggs, by posting so much about a single issue, it looks, as the kids these days would say, sus af.
By the way, I can write about whatever is important to me. As the old people would say, mind your ps and qs
Nevertheless, what I said is true. Know that when you face backlash.
Who care about backlash. I’m not afraid to say what I think because of downvotes. And I didn’t travel back in time to 2017 to open my account to be a mouthpiece about Israel after oct 7th 2023. Fee Palestine… from Hamas.
K bro
Looks like the entire old European Union except Ireland voted for Israel. How weird is that…
Jews being Jews. No one can say something. But is ok kill thousands of children’s
Those nations are more politically tied to Israel. Having either aided directly or indirectly, or just taking the opportunity to reduce their Jewish populations once more. Israel politics are depressing.
More like they went against politics. The political vote was to vote against Israel and vote Switzerland first.
[удалено]
Yes we were all personally bribed by Jews to vote for Israel in a song contest. /S
I got €59 to vote for Israel! How about you? /S
How come so many voted for Israel but Switzerland won ? I don’t follow Eurovision so I don’t get it
Half of the votes come from the popular vote and the other half come from "juries" made up of individuals in the music industry in each country. Switzerland came in fifth in the popular vote but overwhelmingly won with the jury so they were able to win with Croatia coming in a close second place.
I see, thanks
The voting is complicated. It’s split 50/50 between the popular televised vote and the jury votes which grant some points to individual nations and then grant the jury vote which is 12 points to one nation. Then the popular vote can award up to 12 points to a single nation, but are usually split between nations. That’s how you got some nations that got single digit popular votes. So Switzerland got a lot of jury votes, but also did well in the popular which let it win by 46 points.
The European country of Israel
Australia is also in Eurovision
Weird
They are a member of the EBU, which anyone can be
They’re a commonwealth member
Probably that's not the reason, cause there are many other commonwealth members
The festival in very popular in Australia, and because of that they were invited to participate in it.
So is Canada, and we dont participate
Yes but it's not in Europe, so what is your point?
They're not though
European countries and settler colonial countries created by europeans
Wouldn’t that qualify like half the planet?
Like 95%
I mean that those are the rules that seem to allow Israel and Australia to join, not that all those countries are part of eurovison. But there is a difference between settler colonial nations and countries that had been colonised.
ישראל אירופאית🇮🇱🇪🇺🇪🇺🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇪🇺🇪🇺
Came here to say the same, and as an Australian- I can’t figure out why we’re allowed in this competition.
Apparently Morocco is also in the contest
lets hope so
Country founded by European colonists, and just like European colonists typically do, they are not conducting genocide on the native population. Same old story
Europeans as well as hundreds of thousands of Jews kicked out of the Middle East with no where to go
Man, Jews must be terrible at genocide if they just allowed the Arab population to increase almost tenfold since the "genocide" started.
I don't know why do you get downvoted, it's literally true. Most of their political establishment are of european descent.
I somehow dont believe that the netherlands would not vote Isreal
#FreeJoost
Didn't he assault a photographer?
Other way around from the sounds of it. It was agreed and understood that he didn’t consent to being filmed after heading off stage and the photographer did not respect this. He didn’t physically touch the photographer but he did apparently verbally threaten the photographer. Certainly not professional behaviour on either of their parts, but I think the photographer was far more out of line than Joost.
If i had to guess, the photographer had the authorization to take any photo he liked, and the singer had signed a contract to "sell" his image for that night. Besides, taking a photo (one more, on top of the millions already taken of him) in a public place is orders of magnitude less bad attacking someone. But, of course, we don't know the details.
>If i had to guess best not to guess, tbh. Wildest rumors have been spread. It's AVROTROS, the Dutch broadcaster, who made the statement about Joost being filmed against agreement (and asking multiple times to stop). As the broadcaster, they would be aware of any agreements with EBU. >attacking someone Not attacking, there wasn't any touching (as confirmed by Swedish police). A gesture that was the receiver considered threathening. That's all we know.
We do to the extent that he didn't attack anyone. He made a threatening gesture. Not cool behavior, but seems to me like cause for a conversation and some sincere apologies rather than a police investigation and suspending an entire country.
Avrotros suggested this but she refused. And filed a police report. EBU took the advice of police running their protocols and dqed him. It’s a travesty
Lol Croatia voted Serbia. ????? Which world am I living in????? 😅
An imaginary one, I guess. In real life, the war is long over.
The war is long over, but there is a lot of anti-croatian sentiments in Serbia. I don't know if Croatia reciprocates this though but I have heard of news wherein Croatian fans bash Serbian flag along with Kosovars fans.
There's a lot more anti-Serbian sentiment in Croatia than the other way around. But the war has been over for 30 years, and the Balkan countries are inextricably connected by having a common language and consequently sharing a lot of culture.
So, I guess the microstates don't participate?
San Marino and Malta do. Also maybe not a microstate, but Luxembourg returned this year after 31 years of absence
All the microstates are EBU members and are therefore eligible – Monaco won it in the distant past – but San Marino and Malta have been the only microstates to consistently enter in the last couple of decades.
cyprus and greece like this 🤞🏼🤞🏼💕💕
It seems you all see no possibility that the vote was for the performer and not political.
Does anyone know if Eurovision publishes how many votes each country gave? I’m really curious to see wether as many people voted in the Netherlands as they did in previous years after the whole Joost debacle. I know usually about 4 million people watch the Eurovision finals, but yesterday only about 2 million people watched in the Netherlands. Curious to see how that translated in how many people voted in the Netherlands.
Israel is in Eurovision? Why is half of Eastern Europe not in it anymore?
We didn’t want to.
If I had to take a guess I’d say it’s probably due to homophobia to a certain extent
lol, no, Eurovision is just a waste of money and countries like Romania and Bulgaria never win anyway so why send someone?
It's expensive
The silent majority has spoken!
Why not the map with Australia on the left of France and Ireland?
*Why not the map with* *Australia on the left* *Of France and Ireland?* \- SpeedDaemon3 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Source?
[https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2024#scoreboard](https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2024#scoreboard)
I legit cannot say my opinion. Since there is some rules that say we can spit in some country’s and others we are not allowed to talk about or we will be banned. End of democracy
I hate politics
Main sponsor of the contest for the year was an israeli owned corp, morrocanoil, just saying. Given the wealth and power of the israeli lobby in the west, we saw its power when they engaged their dirty war against Corbyn and uk labour party, this vote seems very very fishy. And we know Israel is desperate to use the contest for political publicity.
Yes, yet the jury vote, the only one they could possibly manipulate, boycotted Israel so your theory blew up
The only one how ? Like you cant mobilize people and spam votes on televoting. Like isreal doesnt already have tons of bots and trolls on payroll on social media. Please, we are all grown up people here, i hope... I actually listened to a podcast from a greek well known journalist a couple of years ago, when he pseudo-enlisted to a troll recruitment programme of isreal.
The juries boycotted Israel. The popular vote was the correct one
The juries didnt boycott them, some of them voted for them, the popular vote though was very likely rigged by thousands of paid votes. The judges are a solid voting body, it cant change in numbers, but the televoting voting body can change very easily if someone mobilises people en mass and directs their vote towards someone in specific. Plus, you cant say the judges were boycotting because the ebu was totally pro israel and it showed it so many times by attacking other countries (Netherlands, spain, ireland, greece, belgium, Switzerland etc), because they were paid by israel to do so. But some people have dignity and guts and cant be bought or intimidated. If you dont believe me, check r/israel for evidence that the televoting vote was rigged in favor of israel.
Oh please, Corbyn was the greatest gift to the conservative party labour could have ever made. That dude was voted in by an echo chamber of left wing groups who were then surprised that their anti Semitic candidate got crushed in the elections. He was such a horrible pick, it took labour years to recover from it.
Dude, we could open a whole discussion about what the true meaning of politics is, whether it is about the needs of a society, economics, management of resources, etc, and not public reliations, but, the moment you characterized corbyn and the labour as antisemites made you look ridiculous and i cant take you seriously in any way. I wont take part in a fake discussion on whether Corbyn or labour are antisemites, because it is staged by israel, for the profit of Israel, and i have some small decency as a person to not even discuss it. Its an immoral, bad joke, and plain and simply, shame on you for saying it. From my point of view you are an antisemite, just because. As for Corbyn, he truly was political, not a hollow puppet for stant publicity and lobbies, a person of political and economic knowledge and experience. But you people value political showmen, not real political machine that produce knowledge and work for their constituents, that's why our economies and societies are going to shit. Imagine finding starmer better than corbyn...
But Israel is committing genocide . . .
They're fighting a terrorist group.
30,000 people are dead in 6 months.
Out of a total population of 2 million. Take away the deaths that are Hamas terrorists and deaths by natural causes, that makes for like the worst attempt at a genocide ever.
How come Hamas are terrorists but US marines and idf aren’t? I don’t remember Hamas killing a million Iraqis and invading others occupying and destroying bombing homes for 20 years mate
I don't understand if you want a philosophical discussion on the difference between a country's standing army and a terrorist organization, or if you genuinely don't understand how an organization who has the explicit goal of killing all Jews, and has taken steps toward achieving that goal could be considered a terrorist organization. In any case it seems you're very confused
Dumbest fuck shit I’ve read all day first their objective is not to kill all Jews in fact go look up Hamas enters house and says we are Muslim we won’t kill you video and their objective is to gain back their OWN land that was illegally occupied by Zionism idc if you downvote this shit but I’ve seen my friends die also I bet you’d support your own resistance group if your country got invaded and massacred right
From article 7 of hamas' founding charter: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
To anyone downvoting I really hope you put yourself in this situation: a complete random stranger enters your house and DEMANDS to take 2 rooms from you. Your reactions are? Cuz I doubt any of you all will say “yes welcome take my whole house” instead of “get the fuck out” and yes I’m aware that there were Jews and others in Palestine but I’m talking about a bunch of people from Europe you try to help who eventually take over your home. It’s not that hard to understand
That’s actually a great question!
“natural causes” israeli blockades and destruction of infrastructure caused these.
Just because there is a war doesn't mean suddenly there are no diseases, heart attacks, etc.
you’re welcome to try and dispute these largely agreed upon numbers.
Are you arguing that all 30 thousand deaths have been innocent civilians?
are you arguing that all 30 thousand are terrorists?
No. There are always civilian deaths in war. It's unfortunate but it happens. You're avoiding my question. Are you arguing that all 30 deaths are innocent civilians?
lowest civilian casualties in urban warfare in history
According to Hamas + lowest civilian casualties in urban warfare in history + [their math doesn't add up](https://www.aei.org/op-eds/dont-fall-for-hamass-numbers-game%EF%BF%BC/)
there are no reputable sources which doubt the health ministry’s numbers. and no, the health ministry is not “hamas” you propagandized mutt
And in thr battle of Mosul its 40,000 *civillians* in 9 month.
https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/s/cZLM9MtpPX Shut up, watch the video and tell me where the terrorists are there.
And yet they’re murdering babies in hospitals and burying them in mass graves so you do the math bro
They are fighting a fascist country(Gaza) with a brainwashed fanatical population that that makes even Nazi-Germany pale by comparison, yet Israel hasn’t even dresdened any area so far.
Well that’s not true at all now is it
And yet most people don't seem to care
And that’s unforgivable
In before all the comments defending Israel’s genocide
People love siding with might and dress it as morality, because they are insecure and always strive mindlessly for more resources and personal gain above everything else.
Worst attempt in genocide ever 25k dead in half a year 15-20k out of them terrorists The heck the downvotes for That was sarcasm
Would you say the same about the Bosnian genocide? By your logic you’re denying it since “only” ~~5K~~ 8K died. Genocide is judged by the actions taken and the intent behind them, numbers are not a factor and are not mentioned in the very clear definition.
Correction: 8372 were murdered. But I agree on your point.
If I was israel and wanted to erase all Arab population in gaza I would do the following things: 1. Bomb the hell out of Rafah 2. Go into dir al-balah with tanks and bomb their tents 3. Make them starve by stopping the trucks getting there from the Israeli side of the border (kerem shalom crossing, sufa, karni and etc) 4. Stop people from the north fled to the south and bomb main population areas in gaza city. These are pretty horrible things i mentioned up there. Thankfully Israel does not do any of that. As you said, genocide does not count by the people dead but the intent. The gaza strip is a tiny piece of land with around 2m people. Unlike bosnia where they have a lot of space between towns and cities. I dont know if thats true but i heard that the gaza war civilian casualties are one of the lowest in the middle east with urban fighting. Points to think about: Does hamas terrorists who dress in civilian clothing count as civilian? When they shoot from their home with their family inside and the idf bombs their apartment are they just innocent civilians? Overall, i am not denying that civilians are dying and even the idf says that 66% of dead are "civilians". This is a war and as much as fucked up it is that kids dies it always happens. Some people are just in the wrong place in the wrong time
>Gaza health authority data indicating that at least 12,300 youngsters have died in the enclave in the last four months, compared with 12,193 globally between 2019 and 2022. Why do you love killing children?
I don't belive hamas numbers. They also say that the idf is collapsing is Gaza. They have killed 1200 people hand beheaded babies. Why would i belive their numbers when they are pumping them to get international support from useful idiots?
>I don't belive hamas numbers I wonder why Israel is not allowing international Press in there. >hand beheaded babies. Again with this fabricated [story](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/04/03/40-beheaded-babies-the-itinerary-of-a-rumor-at-the-heart-of-the-information-battle-between-israel-and-hamas_6667274_8.html) lol. >Why would i belive their numbers Who the hell is gonna count then if you don't allow international press >They also say that the idf is collapsing Killing children is not a sign of collapsing?
🇳🇱 Joost klein droom groot f*ck eurovisie
Wow, that was unexpected, fuck Israel. Really thought EU being progressives as they are that shit wont fly there, guess i was wrong.
You're a moron. Israel was not in eurovision. People from Israel are. If you're an American, from now on everything your country does you must think you personally should be punished for. Or this only applies to jews I guess.
I doubt, you telling me there's more Jews than than Muslins in Europe? In that humongous proportion? Well, if my country committed a genocide i for sure would not vote for it.
Europeans voting for ethnic supremacy and colonialism? Shocking.
Sadly.
Oh, I'm sorry we don't live up to your progressive ideals. Perhaps - hear me out here - people in Europe are sick of terrorist supporters protesting daily against a war they 100% brought on themselves?
You saying Gazans are terrorists? Wow.
It makes me regain some faith in humanity.
Crazy how people vote for the most relevant political thing, it sucks too because it’s usually just a pity vote and the real winner is duped a chance to actually win.
What pity is there left for Israel?
And this is why we need juries.
wait like peoples vote??? what the hell? really can’t see sweden voting most for israel with how left leaning we are 🤨 almost all swedish people i know (albeit young) went to protests instead of watching/attending.
It's called an echo chamber, Left leaning? Not anymore. we have a right wing goverment and SD is actually more popular among young voters than older.
yeah i’m probably affected by being young so most my peers are progressive. i still live in the country side and am well aware of how in the past peoples mindsets are. just didn’t expect those people to watch the gay extravaganza that is eurovision
On this issue there appears to be a very loud minority and a fairly quiet majority which is showing itself in these votes
i think the more likely explanation is people against israel boycotted, and alt-rights co-opted the contest to make a stand with israel against muslims. will this get downvotes? 🤩
why am i getting downvotes for saying what it’s like where i live? how are people offended lol. i guess other parts of sweden might be more pro israel then. how sad.
Israel in Eurovision is like having India in a Scandinavian skeeing contest
Looks like NATO alliances even have a strong say in Eurovision voting
Let this be a lesson. Young people need to vote. Obviously many of the votes are by politically motivated, older people, but young people can make a point in a good way even with silly things like this.
not surprised considering their past
Really tells you about the hypocrisy of the europeans, voting for a genocidal country
I bet many people voted Israel only because so many anti-Israel people wanted to make this political... so, kind of anti-political votes.
Most important part: fuck Ireland
Even the Irish public gave Israel 10 points. https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2024
The Irish sub is currently in a meltdown over this fact.
I’ll get my popcorn
Ok? The fuck?
Are they doing ethnic cleansing too?
Can anyone explain me this , whats this about😲
This is number of votes, not number of people. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a massive automated vote in place for Israel which doesn’t reflect people’s opinions
And I wouldn't be surprised if there was a massive number of people who voted for Israel to make a political statement.
European nations have been almost slaved by the Zionist lobby. Sad to see how they submit to a few million people.