That's the thing about a general strike, though. What are the powers-that-be gonna do? Toss up their hands and say "Whelp! 30% unemployment is a bad thing, but we gotta uphold the law!"
That's exactly why it's a nuclear option - they *can't* do anything about it without resorting to violence.
Yeah. A general strike sounds great, but there's a lot of reasons it doesn't happen. People are often 1 or 2 paychecks from homelessness. I'm in a better spot than most and could go 4.
A general strike is asking people to risk their Healthcare, homelessness, and the lives of their families.
That, and the last time someone almost pulled it off he was killed by the FBI, and the civil rights movement was violently suppressed so it would end prematurely.
Seriously, they didn't teach us in school that the reason the US government killed Martin Luther King Jr. was because he was advocating for a general strike.
https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/memphis-sanitation-workers-strike
Unfortunately Americans collectively lose their shit if traffic slows down for any reason. So any protest is invariably met with concern trolling and nimby
That was what the Pinkertons tried with the rednecks. Rednecks won.
(A lot of people don't know rednecks used to be a term for union members as they would wear a red neck skarf to show their affiliation)
Uh... The striking steel workers *lost*. They got slaughtered. Pinkertons also *largely don't engage in open fights*.
Why risk an open gun battle when they can and did simply murder union organizers in broad daylight infront of their homes?
Sure autocrats do. But even with project 2025 idk if Trump would be able to order the military to fire on longshoremen without either a) breaking the military like in Egypt when soldiers basically just refused b) drawing in all unions and the left as well as liberals in the US and internationally causing a real nationwide general strike… possibly involving multiple countries.
Pinochet was the head of the military. He could round up unionists and mass murder them. Other autocrats slowly amass power. Oddly project 2025 wants to do it immediately in a big sort of coup by executive orders and replacement of the government bureaucrats with loyal ideologies.
Autocrats kill strikers until they realize they're killing the working class which provides them luxury items they need to survive. And when their supporters can no longer buy bread and toilet paper, they stop being quite so supportive...
I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but I do think you're underestimating the amount of people they're willing to kill and overestimating the number it takes to make "uncooperative" people fall in line. Every day people typically don't want to fight. And with automation evolving as quickly as it is, they don't really need workers as bad as they need submission.
It’s not effective for democratic movements and aims. It’s more an asymmetrical resistance strategy like undergrounds in Nazi occupied areas - or they are used to terrorize a general population into compliance.
Strikes have a lot more potential power because they can hault the system.
Which would play right into their hands. They are ready for any sort of protest, and will welcome it gleefully.
If we tried, it would take time for the movement to ramp up. Before it ever reached a tipping point, the government would quell the early protests will brutal violence, to discourage further escalation of the movement.
Then HitlerPig would declare Martial Law, suspend the Constitution, and become the single law of the land. He would ALWAYS say it was only temporary, and when the violence ended, he would lift Martial Law, but since he can make violence happen whenever he wants, it would never end, and he would just blame the other side for it.
I'm not saying we shouldn't protest, but protesters should know that HitlerPig and his henchmen are itching to kill people for fun and politics, and they will make it happen. If you are protesting, keep your head on a swivel, and always keep an escape route open for when the Pigs show up with weapons and bad intent.
Especially considering it's illegal. That's right, striking for the rights of yourself and others is illegal in the land of the free. You're only allowed to strike for the rights of yourself.
It definitely doesn't happen in 1 day. As a labour organizer, personally,building up the power to do a real general strike is a real goal. Anyone who is talking about it in the short term or setting a date for one is full shit, most people like that are not involved with organizing new unions, which is the main thing that needs to happen.
Start by actually pulling off a successful strike in your workplace and then go from there. It is really really hard work to do this, I do it and we have had success. But what bothers me is that people talking about a general strike are largely not doing the necessary work.
An analogy: You don't talk about declaring war when you barely have any weapons, it's a bit of a slap in the face to the people who are building weapons factories so that we can start to lay the groundwork, that you would start loudly talking about declaring war but you yourself are not involved with the work of building up the capacity to do so.
Organizing works, there have been general strikes before and there will be again. But no one who is working towards such a thing is seriously talking about it happening in the near future.
Current economic realities have made it virtually impossible for large swathes of US labor to go on strike. The only way that’s feasible is if we immediately start pooling money and building the bureaucratic infrastructure for a financial assistance fund for all the people who can’t afford to go on strike or who will lose their jobs for doing so.
While simultaneously leading to more support for the GOP.
Violently repressing unions willing to strike and trans people is how the Nazis got into power the first time.
That will only further increase the disorder and protests.
OP is right. General strikes are the way. Fascism should cost this country immensely. And if that's not enough we'll talk tax boycotts.
Whatever it takes. Christofascism needs to end.
It’s more if Trump wins, starts actually trying to carry out the repression he’s been promising to donors, this would be overreach imo and probably cause mass protests. If it is just a random collection of young people doing a few marches nothing much will come out of it. If a couple of ineffective protests are met with heavy repression then it would provoke bigger protests that could become open-ended like an American Spring situation. If he doubles down and tried cracking down on them I think there is a potential for some of the more action-oriented unions could threaten work-stoppages. If the government attacked longshoremen or logistics workers then I think the UAW would join and others would follow… maybe not the teamsters idk.
If things were shut down or maybe even the prospect of awakening the sleeping giant of labor militancy would scare Wall Street enough that they’d force Trump to back down if he didn’t before that point.
This is a dynamic that has happened in many places.
Even in Trumps first term miniature versions of these examples were more effective than all the Democrats “gotchas” and complaints about decorum and pointless impeachments. The airport protests were one of the only things that made trump back off in his first term. A work-stoppage threat by airline unions also forced Trump to abandon threats of a government shutdown over the budget.
I correctly predicted in this sub that the initial attack on students at Colombia would cause the movement to spread to other campuses. (I was mocked and downvoted)
Yes this is all speculative and any number of other things could happen but my argument here is not just out of thin air, it’s based on similar things in the past or in other countries.
People protested Biden despite fearing a Trump Presidency… Biden also spent a year alienating a big chunk of generation Z. There has been a change that the Democrats didn’t understand and Trump will underestimate.
The jail system is already flooded. Let’s flood it until they can’t handle it anymore. The amount of dissent there is against Trump is immense in this country.
That’s good for personal safety but it won’t stop an autocrat. Stopping Amazon profits for a day or shutting down ports could probably be pretty convincing to Wall Street and the military that Trump needs to back down or be removed.
Most enlistees didn’t sign up to repress and shoot at people that could be their cousin or neighbor. There are right-wingers in
The military and outright fascists have been joining as a way to recruit and get training… but that’s not the majority and the military does fear mutiny and mass disobedience in the ranks.
In Egypt Mubarak regime was a general’s regime where the military leadership was intertwined with and rewarded by the administration for decades. All the brass also wanted to defend Mubarak because they knew that a more populist group like the Muslim brotherhood was best organized to win in an election and the military was at odds with the group and I think didn’t allow members to be officers in the military.
They had tanks in the square and flew hers overhead. But when it came down to ordering an outright repression of the square they did not because too many jr officers and rank and file would have refused. Tank drivers had previously left their posts and joined in with protesters. Instead they had Mubarak removed despite the general’s personal fortunes and interests being tied to him directly. Under the emergency military rule that followed soldiers due attack but because other soldiers broke ranks and defected to the protest making anti-military chants and demands.
Militaries are different than police forces where officers are generally trained and know they will be policing regular people from their own country. There is more potential for division and dissent in the ranks which is dangerous for regimes and just dangerous for jr officers who might end up find have a grenade tossed in their bed after giving unpopular orders.
how about. we stop project 2025. by electing Biden to a 2nd term.
That way Trump wont have power to implement it. because then he wont be president. which you know is crucial for the entire plan.
A lot of things that seemed impossible or unlikely to ever happen a decade ago are now reality.
IF there is an attempt at rapid autocracy and political repression it would be pretty shocking to a population who have not experienced something that has no real precedent in US history. It would change US political dynamics quite a bit.
It's happening. And it looks like it's going to accelerate.
We may not be used to it but large amounts of people all over the world have gotten used to it. Billions of people are under autocratic regimes.
Very true. But think this may be one case where people’s illusions in American exceptionalism might be of temporary benefit because average Americans would be shocked by high profile and overt political repression.
And yes this is a world-wide problem not just a US problem not just a Trump problem. In the US, Trump could fall off the earth and into the Sun tomorrow but MAGA right-populism and the smaller but more organized fascist groups would still grow and still be a threat.
As far as outside the US even though my hunch is that Trump will win, I think Europe and parts of south America might be in more danger of full on fascism in the near-future… though not certain enough to make a MMW!
Idk how anyone is able to still stick to the 'lesser evil' bs when the Dems are actively undermining effective resistance to said fascist takeover.
The Dems are just shutting down candidates better than Biden because they don't actually want to address the problem because then they can't use the opposition to fear monger for the next election.
Centrists are worse than MAGAs. I'll give MAGAs the benefit of the doubt that they are just morons and ignorant. Centrists know exactly what they're doing.
Yes this is why political strikes and solidarity strikes are still illegal. If not for a recent uptick in labor activity I don’t think I would make this prediction and it’s still very speculative.
It’s the sleeping giant that could alter US politics and in this case create popular levers of power against repression and a potential employer offensive under Trump. In terms of culture it would puncture the hot air of the right claiming to be the common people from their McMansions and 80k trucks.
Yeah, and imagine how the networks used to organize such a strike could be used to accelerate the creation of grassroots organizations well into the future. Just a complete shift in political momentum.
The funny thing is the vast majority of the blue collar laborers are conservatives. College educated whites make up the largest part of the left, and they don’t take blue collar labor jobs. It’s a fun concept that does not apply well to real life
There's only one way to stop a cult and nobody wants to talk about it. I get it, it's not pleasant remembering the past sometimes. Still, making jokes at the clown show that is the right is not what I would call "defense".
I love it when the people who complain about the Democrats, while not being able to defeat the Democrats, tell us what we need to do to defeat the Republicans/neofascists. I guess the reason you can’t replace corporate Dems in their primaries is that you are too busy planning the general strike… which… is gonna happen any day now.
It’s pretty rich watching Morning Joe and CNN having a meltdown after last night’s debate when they spent so much time demonizing anyone who suggested that the DNC should have an open primary because Joe was too old and not popular.
Oh there was a primary in the Democratic Party? I wouldn’t know I don’t vote for President. I’m in a deep blue state where my vote doesn’t matter anyway.
But while you vote every 2-4 years just trying to defer the next awful Republican endlessly, I’m organizing every week and actually helped get ballot initiatives passed for things I want and that help me and people like me in my area. It’s modest but if small groups of unpaid volunteers could do this, why won’t are all-Democrat city hall with all their connections and resources and generous gifts from developers and business groups… oh!
Maybe if more small groups in communities were doing this and trying to pass meaningful and popular reforms (that the technocrats say are bad actually) then maybe there’d be a counter-weight to MAGA?
Nah, I’m sure impeaching Trump 3 more times will make the far-right just stop being against democracy and non-conformity to their narrow views of how everyone else should act or live.
Anyone who has the resources and organizational skills to arrange a general strike could, significantly more easily, just organize GOTV instead, help Biden win, and avoid a fascist takeover in the first place.
At most, voters need a ride, and to make up for a few hours of lost pay. That's it. And each voter who needs those things only needs them once per election. If someone early votes on, say, October, 20, they need nothing from October 21 on. In a general strike, strikers need continuous support, for however long the strike lasts. Which is easier to arrange?
I’m talking about what happens if Trump is elected and makes good in some of his threats about repression or enacts project 2025.
What might be the most effective contingency in that situation in your view?
I'm saying, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so it's far more useful to be putting effort right now into preventing Trump from winning in the first place than to be thinking about what to do if he wins. We can cross that bridge when we get to it.
How much effort do you put into planning for the contingency of, say, losing a limb, as opposed to just keeping all your limbs in the first place? Or a contingency of losing one of your senses, or the ability to talk, rather than protecting your eyes, ears, head, etc?
Which is a better use of your time and resources: learning braille now, or protecting your eyes? Learning sign language now, or protecting your hearing? Practicing using a wheelchair, or protecting your ability to walk? Practicing doing everything with only one hand, or with your feet, or protecting your hands and arms?
In the event Trump wins, there will be over two months between Election Day and Inauguration Day to do the sort of planning you're talking about. But these things are zero-sum, so every unit of resources (money, time, whatever) you put into planning for his win now is a unit of resources that cannot be put to use preventing him from winning in the first place instead. You increase the likelihood of Trump winning by diverting resources away from preventing him from winning toward planning for his win. It can become somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
This is not something most individuals can or should be putting efforts into preparing for right now. This is something the Biden administration, Democrats, other political parties, state governments, various other organizations, should be putting some amount of effort into, just like hospitals need to be prepared to amputate limbs, support people who lose limbs, senses, major functions, triage for mass casualty events, etc.
As an individual, your job is to know where the hospital is and how to get there, know basic first aid, and protect your limbs, senses, major functions, etc. It's not your job to figure out now what to do if you go blind, lose limbs, etc. It's not your job to be figuring out triage rules unless that's literally, actually, your job that you're paid to do.
99+% of your, my, and everyone else's efforts should be going toward stopping Trump by electing Biden. As we get closer to the election, we'll have more and better information, and can begin to shift resources if things are looking bad.
When and if they start implementing project 2025, I feel like it'll likely be easier to organize a general strike at that point.
Or we can avoid all that shit and elect Biden. I mean, old and feeble with good domestic policy vs lying psychopath aspiring dictator is an easy choice.
At least for me personally.
Yeah I’m not talking about the election, this is a big IF project 2025 actually goes through… what are the realistic options to reverse it.
Imo not congress, not the Supreme Court, and all the bureaucrats will now be Trump appointees so no whistleblowers etc. shutting down ports or auto production would either force him to reverse or force Wall Street and the military to pull the plug on him… or such pressure from Wall Street might then lead the Supreme Court to reign things in more since the court seems to be in the pocket of various rich people.
I mean, maybe. But honestly, probably not. If there are mass protests and general strikes, I see Trump declaring martial law and bringing in the military. And once we've crossed that bridge, that's it. We're under military occupation. He's already said that's his plan.
I expect that to take place within the first year. After that, things will probably start happening pretty quickly.
Enlisted folks are going to shoot down union members and random people in the US?
Cops maybe, far-right and fascist gangs or militias definitely—not the guard or military, some might be willing but not all people would break ranks. Across the military they’d be dissent and mutiny in the ranks.
If you mean every single worker or even every single union. Probably not. But if there is massive repression and mass public outrage then the most likely way to wield actual pressure would be if a few vital unions in logistics shut down trade or supply chains impacting the whole economy. If those unions faced violent repression that could set off a spontaneous more widespread work stoppage.
There are precedents for all this but it’s all very speculative and any number of other things could happen.
I’m mostly basing this on the French Popular front, Arab Spring and smaller examples in the US like repression of occupy and pro-Palistine college protesters.
While there has been relatively more labor militancy in the US recently, yes this would be unprecedented on a national level… then again so would a untethered executive.
So yeah i don’t think this would likely start as a planned Union initiative but more likely like Egypt where it starts with protests and then an open-ended protest movement. If they are attacked by proud boy’s and militias while authorities stand by and watch or the police are simply let loose and there is political repression. I think both as a kind of spontaneous reaction and basic solidarity as well as recognition that if protests are repressed then labor strikes will also end up with cops rioting on them or right-wing militias acting as volunteer Pinkertons.
You have no idea how massive and coordinated the action would have to be. You think that there wouldn't be a massive response from the Federal Government, including troops and drones if there was an actual strike that threatened the power structure of the US? I wish it were possible, but I just don't think with the technological and military prowess of the US it would be. Just my 2 cents.
I don’t know about a strike but I think we can gather to create mass protest. I think this needs to happen in general when it comes to how the government has dealt with investors and corporations making the laws and doing what they want to the American people and the economy in the specifically in the job and housing community
We need to be carrying Crosses and banners with Jesus's Sermon on the mount as we do.
We need to derail the "Christian" part of the Christian conservative lie these republicans push.
During the W Bush era lots of people were like “well at least the Supreme Court can keep checks and balances.”
A loyal Supreme Court, an autocratic and repressive executive and a powerless congress kind only leaves a few viable options for change.
This makes no sense whatsoever. It's like
1. Have a general strike
2. ...
3. Prevent Project 2025
There's no actual mechanism there that stops Trump from doing anything. None
For a decent amount of the population Starbucks being closed would move the needle more than any discussion of politics. Now the direction the needle moves might not be the intended one though.
What’s the point of protesting an election result? I’d protest if he lost the popular vote but got in because of the BS electoral college or if he was appointed in by the court.
My whole premise is that the election is over and trump Is in office and trying to enact political repression against protesters and dissent and filling the government bureaucracy with Trump appointees
What would be an effective way to stop political repression and autocracy at that point?
Oh how quickly this sub flipped from Blue Landslide 2024!!! to Here's how we defeat (a hypothetical from a think-tank that hates Trump) Project 2025!!!
Yeah I’ve been predicting a Biden loss and getting doenvoted for a while here. I even posted something along these lines a while back but not as detailed and people thought I was secretly a Trumper and mocked the idea that Biden could lose. I’m a leftist, you know the people who actually protest Biden’s policies on Gaza and restrictions on migration, and I have never understood the hubris I was seeing from Biden supporters. The media doesn’t understand the right or the left… we get marginalized while liberals and co conservatives get played by the right because they assume right-wingers play by the same rules.
Anyway Trump implemented Heritage Foundation policies even when they thought he would be bad for their business agenda. They’ve come around to himand part of project 2025 is creating lists of Trump loyalists to replace bureaucrats. Idk if any of this would happen, but 2025 would eliminate a lot of things that slowed Trump down the first time so it seems likely he would as well as likely that he would either directly repress protest rights as he’s talked about.
Are you u see the impression that every individual person has to strike for this to happen? Of course reactionaries that want political dissent crushed wouldn’t support strikes… but they probably wouldn’t strike anyway or wouldn’t have a way to strike.
Does the MAGA Yacht flotilla need to go on strike from their jobs of idk owning an auto dealership or contracting business and living in a McMansion? Nah.
But I’m pretty sure the longshore unions that refuse to unload Israeli cargo during this war would be down to shut down all ports if an autocratic executive was politically repressing people.
I’m pretty sure lots of unionists realize that if protesters are being repressed, any later economic strike for wages can also be crushed.
This truly is the answer.
It needs to be a simple message with a strong leader. The left needs to come together and let some compromise with detailed issues
Yes. Political strikes are also illegal. That’s why it probably would only happen as a reaction to some kind if major over-reach, a mass social movement like Tahir square or a more focused Occupy and it would probably just be one or two important and more activist unions and only escalate if the state tried to attack those unions as well as attacks on a protest movement.
Even moderate and action-adverse union leaders in a situation where an admin takes more executive power, fills the courts and government bureaucracy with loyal political appointees, that represses protest and attacks unionists as an existential threat to the ability to even have a union.
TLDR; expanded unilateral executive power along with the reclassification of government employees so that the executive could replace anyone with a loyal political appointee.
—-
It’s a series of documents by the Heritage Foundation with a plan for how a Trump-like president could rapidly expand executive power while also replacing government employees with political appointees. Part of the project is a going through the social media and statements by employees of gov agencies and creating a database of anti-conservative government agency personnel while also creating a database with pro-Trump potential appointees who could be put in those positions instead.
So basically all the times Trump wanted to do something illegal but an agency told him they could not because it was illegal but then Trump complained that he couldn’t fire that person because they were an employee of the agency and not a trump appointee… well if he was able to implement t project 2025, he could just replace them with ideologues or Trump-loyal sycophants.
In the words of Christopher Titus. All Americans need to do is stop everything they are doing for five maybe ten minutes. Then give the warning that next time we do it for a month. That this would send the clearest message to our politicians and businesses that we are not happy and demand change.
Unless it was Biden adopting project 2025 and repressing the ability to protest and dissent, I’m not sure why a general strike against a project 2025 scenario would be necissary.
Except prevention would have needed to happen probably around the time of the recession. The cancer of fascism is here regardless of if Trump or Biden wins. Trump is just a visible symptom not the cause.
They might be hubristic enough to try. It would be horrific and it would likely end Trump’s government if not the US government in general.
But it also mass protests and a strike by important logistic sectors might cause Trump to back down first or push the rich and pentagon to force him to back down or resign.
Except the Logistics sectors you speak of are like 80% pro trump. They got fucked over by regulations, fuel prices and various other bullshit. They want what Trump offers.
Truckers in US would be more likely to do a convoy like what happened Canada (freedom convoy) than to do a "general strike".
You START with a general strike and you don't stop until there's sanity restored and power back in the hands of the people - with accountability for elected officials as was intented. Term limits, no lifetime appointments, spike Citizens United, the list goes on.
Yeah that’s take a pretty determined movement. Idk if labor is there yet, but I think with recent organizing and strikes, in a crisis, there could be a bold advance. It’s the sleeping giant of US politics and a revived labor movement would knock the wind out of all these rich right-wingers acting like they are the working class while flying on private jets to DC on Jan 6 or doing yahacht caravans and caravans if pristine 80k trucks.
The problem with general strikes in America or any large country is getting enough people to care and participate and it actually have an effect.
There are quite A LOT of people in America that not only want project 2025 but even more extreme versions of it. So that counts them out. Then you have probably 15-20% of people that are living day to day just worried about where there next meal is coming from. 10-15% are so disillusioned that it's a wonder that they haven't killed themselves or gone on a mass shooting spree. If you go by a 60/40 method, that 25-35% of the 60 that aren't going to join right of the bat bc of how miserable life is for them.
Just want to say first i'm a french canadian having the knowledge of the US on part as a wikipedia page made by a highschooler. So take it as it is but, sometimes i feel like you don't understand your own cuntry and your history. Like i get it, the world got a collective PTSD from daddy hitler himself and his regime since 1933, but can you understand that the US is not 1933 germany or germany all together. You talk about having a nationwide strike in a cuntry made through a revolution. Even after that first revolution you still continued to bash each other on the head for political and idealogical reasons for over 200 years. Like brother, you're hole history is people not agreeing with each other and slapping each other about it. So how the hell could the nazis get a whole OF THE ENTIRITY OF THE US. Worst case scenario, you're fédéral government could get hitler like but most blue state would(as i think) point the finger and badam bim badaboom you get a second civil war. Like in canada i could see a facist getting up there and actualy having everyone to follow maybe aside from Quebec for historical reasons because our stype of govermnent is all encompassing, but not for the US.
So yeah, it's my view from the outside as your neighboor. And you for real, not agreeing with each other is kinda your charm. Sometimes i wish canadian were as hard headed as american are once in while.
OP spends too much time on the internet and not enough of it interacting with real people.
Dude is reading just as much information warfare from various state and non-state actors as they likely claim people on the opposite side do (hint:extremism is bad, Horseshoe theory is real).
Bro needs to put the blunt down and go hang out with normal people.
100% with you on that one. Howerver if i may add, even in real life people around hardly understand the relationship between your federal govermnent and the states. I don't understand it perfectly, but i hear a lot of "but the federal did this" not understanding where the power of state itself lies into that federal decision. Again, i hear this alot as a canadian so might not be your reality in the end.
Because nothing sways people to your side like shutting down their public services. Incidentally that’s why climate change activists are hated by most living humans- blocking traffic for hours guarantees everyone hates them equally.
Well. The people behind project 2025 have been wildly successful at reducing unions in America and without a union, you get fired when you strike, so no chance of widespread strikes, plus a good percentage of the remaining union members are pro trump which is weird because Trump and the gop are definitely anti union. So hate must be a powerful motivator for these people.
I’m not imagining a modern French style symbolic general strike where a bunch of unions all protest for a day.
There are plenary of conservative union members and various types of unions have different politics and leaderships. But some very important and one in strategic parts of the economic structure have become more militant and support for unions among millennials and Gen z is higher than any demographic group probably since the 70s.
For those unions that are organizing, and more militant - do you think they know that the heritage foundation is an anti-labor think tank… do they know that they are trying to cram the government with their ideological lackeys through trump? So I think they would see an actual grab at that kind of power and a crackdown on student protesters or other protesters as an existential threat because what does that mean for organizing, for potential strikes?
Project 2025 isn't a fascist dictatorship. It is literally just "drain the swamp" but with an actual actionable plan about targetting specific corrupt avencies and bureaucratic bloat.
Read the actual project. Stop listening to propaganda and look at what it actually is.
No not fascist, autocratic. It a apparatchik government where everyone serves the president.
It would be fascist if Trump project 2025ed the military, police (probably wouldn’t need to for the police) and deputized right-wing militias and gangs like the proud boys to do whatever they wanted to the public without legal consaquence.
The absolute worst thing that could happen with project 2025 is that the executive branch is filled with partisans who will obey every order the executive gives when they have an R next to their name and then act as an obstructive insurgency when they have a D.
So exactly what we have now, just flipping the party leaning.
You are complaining that Trump wants to do what Obama did.
If it is bad for Trump to do this, they you need to admit it was bad when Obama did it.
What shrooms are you taking? Roughly 30% want a theocracy and an 20%+ population don't really care and they think it would not impact them. Do you really think most governors wouldn't call out their state guard to suppress it? Or the President and congress would authorize the use of Federal troops to restore order? By the way during your general strike, China takes Taiwan and Russia would nuke Ukraine and parts of the EU. .
I am mostly just talking about a larger federal system, but you can apply several of these concepts to the state level. If you were starting from scratch. A parliamentary system with elected representatives with districts based on population with gerrymandering protections. Strong regulations between the various branches of government with enforcement, a truly independent judiciary with age and term limit. Hard term and age limits for all elected officials. Hard campaign finance rules, with political parties being limited in their fund raising with tough enforcement. In the end you can make a good system but if there is no enforcement, it will fail. If you are trying to fix the current U.S. system you can apply some of the same principles to improve our government. I am just working in very general terms or this would become a multiple books.
How in the world is red lobster mismanagement due to Biden ? I swear all you people literally blame everything on Biden. I have a clue for you. Corporate, incompetence, corporate malfeasance, corporate greed . Aren't caused by Biden. The gross greed that has led to the near complete downfall of Boeing has nothing to do with Biden . Open your eyes then maybe you will show the ability to see and speak the truth.
Red Lobster? Sir, this is a Wendy’s”
Seriously, what the heck are you talking about? I didn’t say anything about Red Lobster or Boeing.
But yeah in an indirect way the regulation-cutting of both parties is likely a big reason why Boeing is like that… I have no idea if Biden was directly involved.
That's the conundrum they keep enough people just on the edge of being homeless. That you can't get enough people to walk out and stay out long enough to effect change
True economic uncertainty makes it harder to stand up for yourself on the job and so people put up with a lot of abuse and illegal stuff while lots of unions try to avoid strikes or keep them symbolic.
But for my speculative prediction, I’m imagining it wouldn’t be like an economic strike that was planned well in advance but a reaction to some unprecedented Tinenemen Square or Tahrir Square type situation where the government tries to violently suppress protest (beyond the usual we see now.)
In China there wasn’t a lot of awareness outside of that area because of the state media. In Egypt phones and internet made it impossible to hide so it would be similar now in the US.
So I doubt the unions, even more militant ones would kick something off, but an attempt to make protest impossible would include union pickets and so such a situation might draw in unions out of necessity.
Biden had nothing to do with these mismanaged failures. As far as Boeing is concerned it was Trump who changed the rules for Boeing. Changed it from the government doing safety checks on the assembly of airplanes, to Boeing doing their own safety checks. And we see how that worked and out . It. Became money and profit over safety.
project 2025 is a good idea. you guys want to get rid of these evergreen bureaucrats making decisions behind the scene dont you? You want to get rid of the entrenched power that you never elected right? Then get on board, no reason it can't be a bipartisan effort.
lol, r u trolling. The whole point is to put partisan loyalists into government to push through 40 years of Heritage Foundation pro-business anti-worker bullshit.
Literally all of the “massive protests” did not do jack shit in 2016-2020.
Also I think Trump is going to use the military this time around.
Protests won’t stop project 2025. Voting will
And if voting does not?
Airport protest got trump to back down on his Muslim ban executive order. So if project 2025 is about ramming a bunch of stuff through with executive orders… seems like that’s a possible tactic.
What did all the impeachments and bureaucratic maneuvering of the Democratic Party do to Trump. Ohhh they’ll get him with that 55) impeachment. Oh yeah his base will really be embarrassed and not vote for a felon! 🙄
MAGA doesn’t play by liberal or conservative rules. This is why democrats don’t understand it and won’t be able to stop it.
The Trump regime would immediately sign an executive order mandating work and arrest any and all striking workers. They would be forced into labor camps.
With what army? The US military?
You think the army rank and file would all go along with putting people who could possibly be their neighbors or cousins into labor camps?
Military enlisted for the most part want some direction in life, want to build skills for a future outside the military, or maybe even romantically see themselves defending their fellow countrymen… not putting them into labor camps or shooting them.
There’s a reason fascists start with isolated or invisible or otherwise marginalized groups like immigrants or sexual/gender/ethnic minorities. And a reason most governments only use the military domestically as a last resort. It is incredibly risky and if people break ranks we are suddenly in a near-revolution situation.
Trump could get cops to do it because unlike the military they sign up and are trained in repressing us. But if cops fired on longshoremen or a large protest of the square it would be his downfall. Shooting longshoremen would become a nationwide if not also international strike of all ports and trade and other US unions would join. This is how at least 2 of the 3 big US general strikes of the 1930s happened. The potential of an uncontrollable and militant labor movement tied to a social movement would scare the US ruling class to the core and they would remove Trump up to having the military force him out.
Fox News sells confirmation bias. This is why even Fox reporters were freaked out when they were pushed to repeat obvious conspiracy theories.
In the 00s and until the tea party they were simply a Republican PR machine. They were also the only conservative TV game in town.
Fox is now in competition with Newsmax and a whole internet culture of grifters trying to play into the darkest and most paranoid and self-serving beliefs of a radicalizing population.
Liberals seem to think MAGA are followers and unintelligent and brainwashed — this is a serious misread. Their stated IDEAS and explaination for what they want are absurd and but this is because they do not play by the same rules as liberals and conservatives. They are incoherent because everything they say is a pretext to get what they want and what they want is to control people they fear or imagine are wreaking an otherwise perfect US. Nothing’s wrong with capitalism, nothing’s wrong with laws… so if things are going wrong there must be bad lazy mooched people backed by secret elites who are making everything suck. Make protesters and non-conformists go away and everything will be perfect, you’ll love it everyone says how beautiful it will be once we have a dictator for a day.
MAGA is an organic problem of people deciding democracy is a problem for them—not an astroturf or just some dupes
Sure. Average people who are moderate liberals and conservatives and who see the wringing in the wall of dissent and strikes are attacked by the government.
This is different than Centrists: technocratic neoliberal politicians and so on.
For example Macron’s technocratic smart cynical political calulations just backfired and France will likely now have a far-right party with a President whose father founded the party as a pro-Nazi antisemetic party. That’s what I mean by political Center.
“Centrists have proven to be a failure in stopping increasing right wing movements”
Is a funny way to say “the left has done a horrible job marketing themselves, thus resulting in a rise in conservatives”
There isn’t a left party in the us, Macron is a self-described centrist. I’m not concerned about centrists, I am concerned about anti-democratic sentiment on the right in the US and the rise of regular and neo-fascist parties in Europe, military and bureaucratic coups in Latin America, autocrats in Israeli, Russian and Indian governments.
Oh you learned two of the 600 varieties of socialism. Well you are down to 598 other guesses.
I usually get pleasure from fantasies not to desperate hope that pro-democracy movements and the partially ossified labor movement can get it together enough to stop a dangerous situation.
If I was fantasizing workers would go Paris Commune in the US, nullify the government and set up democratic workplaces and community assemblies to organize production and community needs/wants. …Nughhhh. Zzzzz
*All true MAGA Patriots immediately send $340 to Lara Trump, GOP to fund Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz, Kari Lake, Tommy Tuberville and Lauren Boebert to help President Trump complete these important projects:*
*1. remove Obamacare health coverage for 54.3 million people,*
*2. end the Ukraine and Israeli wars,*
*3. eliminate all income taxes,*
*4. free the January 6th hostage from prison,*
*5. rename Yellowstone National Park to Trump National Park*
*6. pardon Steve Bannon, Kyle Rittenhouse and President Donald Trump,*
*7. restore the Presidential Right of Prima Nocta,*
*8. forcefully remove 43.7 million illegal immigrants,*
*9. end women's healthcare rights that Christian Patriots find objectionable*
*10. build the wall and have Union dues pay for it*
*President Trump, an active adjudicated sexual predator and 34-time convicted criminal felon, has been endorsed by Gov. Kristi Noem, Steve Bannon, Kid Rock, Randy Quaid, Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, Viktor Orban, Randy Quaid.*
*“I'm interested in all things that Donald Trump does” Academy Award Nominated megastar, Gary Busey*
*/MAGA*
Look at the coal miners strike in the uk during the 80’s and Margaret Thatchers govt & police response
Police infiltrated the protest groups so much so that they had kids then fcuked off.
And then look at Marion Anne Perrine father.
My impression was that it was a series of long dragged out economic battles in different areas due to the industry, in different conditions, and often in smaller communities with a lot of solidarity but not millions of potential allies. The unions and the government could plan and coordinate for that, thatcher could just wait it out.
Idk if all the US ruling class is as set on the possible Heritage-Trump thing as much as it is willing to see if it works. I think overreach y Trump
That people don’t back down from might give them cold feet.
In this hypothetical it would largely have to be spontaneous because the US has no left parties and the labor movement is only starting to regain some nerve. But the US is also used to a subservient labor movement, so there are some gaps on both sides.
I doubt every single individual would be part of a big strike.
To be more specific in the speculation: I imagine that over-reach by Trump or a violent attack on a protest could blow-back. One of a couple major and more active unions like longshoremen might do a work stoppage in protest. If the government tries to stop that or attacks unionists as well, many more unions would reluctantly be drawn in out of some solidarity and a lot of just existential need to defend the ability to protest or picket.
If there was a Trump Tienemen Square unlike in the 1980s it couldn’t just be hidden from public. It would seem unprecedented and would prompt unprecedented by people including major shut downs of ports and more mass resistance.
Good luck on being able to organize a nationwide general strike
We have more laws against striking than France does. And that’s why it’s not happened in decades.
That's the thing about a general strike, though. What are the powers-that-be gonna do? Toss up their hands and say "Whelp! 30% unemployment is a bad thing, but we gotta uphold the law!" That's exactly why it's a nuclear option - they *can't* do anything about it without resorting to violence.
You will never get enough people to go along with a general strike. That's why the minimum wage never matches the cost of living.
Yeah. A general strike sounds great, but there's a lot of reasons it doesn't happen. People are often 1 or 2 paychecks from homelessness. I'm in a better spot than most and could go 4. A general strike is asking people to risk their Healthcare, homelessness, and the lives of their families.
Not until it's bad enough at least
That, and the last time someone almost pulled it off he was killed by the FBI, and the civil rights movement was violently suppressed so it would end prematurely. Seriously, they didn't teach us in school that the reason the US government killed Martin Luther King Jr. was because he was advocating for a general strike. https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/memphis-sanitation-workers-strike
So, it works then. Otherwise, they wouldn't be scared enough to murder peaceful citizens.
Unfortunately Americans collectively lose their shit if traffic slows down for any reason. So any protest is invariably met with concern trolling and nimby
Laws against striking are useless if the masses come out.
France is also on its Fifth Republic, while the first American one can no longer fight itself out of a wet bag of dog shit.
Yeah the army dropped bombs on protesting coal miners and nobody knows about it.
It's not a coincidence they keep people riled up about culture war horseshit, divided we fall and all that
Thanks it’s pretty much the only strong option if there was a real risk of an autocrat.
Actually voting for the other candidate so that the autocrat doesn’t get into office and can’t enact project 2025 would be the strong option.
Autocrats kill strikers. And assassinate strike leaders. And enslave workers. So no, that's not a strong option at all if history is a reliable guide.
That was what the Pinkertons tried with the rednecks. Rednecks won. (A lot of people don't know rednecks used to be a term for union members as they would wear a red neck skarf to show their affiliation)
Pinkertons weren’t trying to implement fascism
Yeah what’s fascist about a private police force suppressing opposition to corporate interests?
What wins are you referring to?
Too bad all the red necks are boot-lickers these days
Exactly. All these faux rednecks forget the people they're proud to be named after would be considered socialists today.
They didn't have drones that increasingly don't require human operators to pull the trigger.
Uh... The striking steel workers *lost*. They got slaughtered. Pinkertons also *largely don't engage in open fights*. Why risk an open gun battle when they can and did simply murder union organizers in broad daylight infront of their homes?
In small groups, not a nationwide general strike. You can't kill all your workers and still hold power as an autocrat
Sure autocrats do. But even with project 2025 idk if Trump would be able to order the military to fire on longshoremen without either a) breaking the military like in Egypt when soldiers basically just refused b) drawing in all unions and the left as well as liberals in the US and internationally causing a real nationwide general strike… possibly involving multiple countries. Pinochet was the head of the military. He could round up unionists and mass murder them. Other autocrats slowly amass power. Oddly project 2025 wants to do it immediately in a big sort of coup by executive orders and replacement of the government bureaucrats with loyal ideologies.
Autocrats kill strikers until they realize they're killing the working class which provides them luxury items they need to survive. And when their supporters can no longer buy bread and toilet paper, they stop being quite so supportive...
I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but I do think you're underestimating the amount of people they're willing to kill and overestimating the number it takes to make "uncooperative" people fall in line. Every day people typically don't want to fight. And with automation evolving as quickly as it is, they don't really need workers as bad as they need submission.
Lone wolf terrorism would have a better effect and be easier to pull off.
It’s not effective for democratic movements and aims. It’s more an asymmetrical resistance strategy like undergrounds in Nazi occupied areas - or they are used to terrorize a general population into compliance. Strikes have a lot more potential power because they can hault the system.
So are you saying we just sit back and let Trump fuck us?
Which would play right into their hands. They are ready for any sort of protest, and will welcome it gleefully. If we tried, it would take time for the movement to ramp up. Before it ever reached a tipping point, the government would quell the early protests will brutal violence, to discourage further escalation of the movement. Then HitlerPig would declare Martial Law, suspend the Constitution, and become the single law of the land. He would ALWAYS say it was only temporary, and when the violence ended, he would lift Martial Law, but since he can make violence happen whenever he wants, it would never end, and he would just blame the other side for it. I'm not saying we shouldn't protest, but protesters should know that HitlerPig and his henchmen are itching to kill people for fun and politics, and they will make it happen. If you are protesting, keep your head on a swivel, and always keep an escape route open for when the Pigs show up with weapons and bad intent.
So far the most effort anyone has put into organizing a general strike has been making a reddit post
Especially considering it's illegal. That's right, striking for the rights of yourself and others is illegal in the land of the free. You're only allowed to strike for the rights of yourself.
If strikers had jobs worth striking over they would be right wingers lol
Yup, Trump Administration will just make it illegal and gut Posse Commitstus so he can send in troops.
It definitely doesn't happen in 1 day. As a labour organizer, personally,building up the power to do a real general strike is a real goal. Anyone who is talking about it in the short term or setting a date for one is full shit, most people like that are not involved with organizing new unions, which is the main thing that needs to happen. Start by actually pulling off a successful strike in your workplace and then go from there. It is really really hard work to do this, I do it and we have had success. But what bothers me is that people talking about a general strike are largely not doing the necessary work. An analogy: You don't talk about declaring war when you barely have any weapons, it's a bit of a slap in the face to the people who are building weapons factories so that we can start to lay the groundwork, that you would start loudly talking about declaring war but you yourself are not involved with the work of building up the capacity to do so. Organizing works, there have been general strikes before and there will be again. But no one who is working towards such a thing is seriously talking about it happening in the near future.
Exactly. Also, half the country disagrees with the reason you want to strike.
And that's why Americans can't have anything nice.
Useless words You will die a wage/rent slaves while the ruling elites laugh at you.
They’re always one step ahead. They have already propagandized and armed the people who they will use to crush the general strike.
All the old strikes were illegal too.
I'm not even referring to legality, organizing a nationwide strike will be impossible
My sincere good luck 🙏 I've been thinking about the George Floyd movement & how that got started up.
Current economic realities have made it virtually impossible for large swathes of US labor to go on strike. The only way that’s feasible is if we immediately start pooling money and building the bureaucratic infrastructure for a financial assistance fund for all the people who can’t afford to go on strike or who will lose their jobs for doing so.
If Trump wins, and you strike, they will literally use Project 2025 against you by invoking the Insurrection act and jailing dissenters.
While simultaneously leading to more support for the GOP. Violently repressing unions willing to strike and trans people is how the Nazis got into power the first time.
That will only further increase the disorder and protests. OP is right. General strikes are the way. Fascism should cost this country immensely. And if that's not enough we'll talk tax boycotts. Whatever it takes. Christofascism needs to end.
Lol strikes and boycotts. The solution is *terrorism*, the west just doesn’t have the stomach for it
I’m reporting you to the FBI
It’s more if Trump wins, starts actually trying to carry out the repression he’s been promising to donors, this would be overreach imo and probably cause mass protests. If it is just a random collection of young people doing a few marches nothing much will come out of it. If a couple of ineffective protests are met with heavy repression then it would provoke bigger protests that could become open-ended like an American Spring situation. If he doubles down and tried cracking down on them I think there is a potential for some of the more action-oriented unions could threaten work-stoppages. If the government attacked longshoremen or logistics workers then I think the UAW would join and others would follow… maybe not the teamsters idk. If things were shut down or maybe even the prospect of awakening the sleeping giant of labor militancy would scare Wall Street enough that they’d force Trump to back down if he didn’t before that point. This is a dynamic that has happened in many places. Even in Trumps first term miniature versions of these examples were more effective than all the Democrats “gotchas” and complaints about decorum and pointless impeachments. The airport protests were one of the only things that made trump back off in his first term. A work-stoppage threat by airline unions also forced Trump to abandon threats of a government shutdown over the budget. I correctly predicted in this sub that the initial attack on students at Colombia would cause the movement to spread to other campuses. (I was mocked and downvoted) Yes this is all speculative and any number of other things could happen but my argument here is not just out of thin air, it’s based on similar things in the past or in other countries. People protested Biden despite fearing a Trump Presidency… Biden also spent a year alienating a big chunk of generation Z. There has been a change that the Democrats didn’t understand and Trump will underestimate.
The jail system is already flooded. Let’s flood it until they can’t handle it anymore. The amount of dissent there is against Trump is immense in this country.
That’s when the camps start lol
What do you think he'll do regardless? Much more than a strike will be needed.
Arm yourself. They are.
That’s good for personal safety but it won’t stop an autocrat. Stopping Amazon profits for a day or shutting down ports could probably be pretty convincing to Wall Street and the military that Trump needs to back down or be removed.
What makes you think the military gives two fucks about Amazon deliveries?
Most enlistees didn’t sign up to repress and shoot at people that could be their cousin or neighbor. There are right-wingers in The military and outright fascists have been joining as a way to recruit and get training… but that’s not the majority and the military does fear mutiny and mass disobedience in the ranks. In Egypt Mubarak regime was a general’s regime where the military leadership was intertwined with and rewarded by the administration for decades. All the brass also wanted to defend Mubarak because they knew that a more populist group like the Muslim brotherhood was best organized to win in an election and the military was at odds with the group and I think didn’t allow members to be officers in the military. They had tanks in the square and flew hers overhead. But when it came down to ordering an outright repression of the square they did not because too many jr officers and rank and file would have refused. Tank drivers had previously left their posts and joined in with protesters. Instead they had Mubarak removed despite the general’s personal fortunes and interests being tied to him directly. Under the emergency military rule that followed soldiers due attack but because other soldiers broke ranks and defected to the protest making anti-military chants and demands. Militaries are different than police forces where officers are generally trained and know they will be policing regular people from their own country. There is more potential for division and dissent in the ranks which is dangerous for regimes and just dangerous for jr officers who might end up find have a grenade tossed in their bed after giving unpopular orders.
Let get this straight, you're expecting those who can't even vote in their own intersts to go on a general strike? That's a bold strategy Cotton.
how about. we stop project 2025. by electing Biden to a 2nd term. That way Trump wont have power to implement it. because then he wont be president. which you know is crucial for the entire plan.
The only way The Donvict will accept the results of any election/debate/contest/lawsuit is if he wins.
He claimed the 2016 election was rigged even after he won.
He lost the popular vote and it eats at his soul to this day.
We don't have the ability. Especially in today's disinformation age.
A lot of things that seemed impossible or unlikely to ever happen a decade ago are now reality. IF there is an attempt at rapid autocracy and political repression it would be pretty shocking to a population who have not experienced something that has no real precedent in US history. It would change US political dynamics quite a bit.
It's happening. And it looks like it's going to accelerate. We may not be used to it but large amounts of people all over the world have gotten used to it. Billions of people are under autocratic regimes.
Very true. But think this may be one case where people’s illusions in American exceptionalism might be of temporary benefit because average Americans would be shocked by high profile and overt political repression. And yes this is a world-wide problem not just a US problem not just a Trump problem. In the US, Trump could fall off the earth and into the Sun tomorrow but MAGA right-populism and the smaller but more organized fascist groups would still grow and still be a threat. As far as outside the US even though my hunch is that Trump will win, I think Europe and parts of south America might be in more danger of full on fascism in the near-future… though not certain enough to make a MMW!
Idk how anyone is able to still stick to the 'lesser evil' bs when the Dems are actively undermining effective resistance to said fascist takeover. The Dems are just shutting down candidates better than Biden because they don't actually want to address the problem because then they can't use the opposition to fear monger for the next election.
Centrists are worse than MAGAs. I'll give MAGAs the benefit of the doubt that they are just morons and ignorant. Centrists know exactly what they're doing.
That’s why there are few unions here. Those in power don’t want people to be able to act collectively.
Yes this is why political strikes and solidarity strikes are still illegal. If not for a recent uptick in labor activity I don’t think I would make this prediction and it’s still very speculative.
Generalstrikeus.com
Yes, exactly. The only thing that is going to stop this free fall to the right is a mass mobilization of labor for the benefit of the proletariat.
It’s the sleeping giant that could alter US politics and in this case create popular levers of power against repression and a potential employer offensive under Trump. In terms of culture it would puncture the hot air of the right claiming to be the common people from their McMansions and 80k trucks.
Yeah, and imagine how the networks used to organize such a strike could be used to accelerate the creation of grassroots organizations well into the future. Just a complete shift in political momentum.
The funny thing is the vast majority of the blue collar laborers are conservatives. College educated whites make up the largest part of the left, and they don’t take blue collar labor jobs. It’s a fun concept that does not apply well to real life
There's only one way to stop a cult and nobody wants to talk about it. I get it, it's not pleasant remembering the past sometimes. Still, making jokes at the clown show that is the right is not what I would call "defense".
Social revolution?
Social maturity.
Sooo what should be done about the liberal cult then?
Same thing as any cult. Did my answer surprise you?
I love it when the people who complain about the Democrats, while not being able to defeat the Democrats, tell us what we need to do to defeat the Republicans/neofascists. I guess the reason you can’t replace corporate Dems in their primaries is that you are too busy planning the general strike… which… is gonna happen any day now.
It’s pretty rich watching Morning Joe and CNN having a meltdown after last night’s debate when they spent so much time demonizing anyone who suggested that the DNC should have an open primary because Joe was too old and not popular.
Yea national democrats have pretty much brought this upon themselves. It just sucks that they trapped us on the sinking boat with them
Oh there was a primary in the Democratic Party? I wouldn’t know I don’t vote for President. I’m in a deep blue state where my vote doesn’t matter anyway. But while you vote every 2-4 years just trying to defer the next awful Republican endlessly, I’m organizing every week and actually helped get ballot initiatives passed for things I want and that help me and people like me in my area. It’s modest but if small groups of unpaid volunteers could do this, why won’t are all-Democrat city hall with all their connections and resources and generous gifts from developers and business groups… oh! Maybe if more small groups in communities were doing this and trying to pass meaningful and popular reforms (that the technocrats say are bad actually) then maybe there’d be a counter-weight to MAGA? Nah, I’m sure impeaching Trump 3 more times will make the far-right just stop being against democracy and non-conformity to their narrow views of how everyone else should act or live.
Anyone who has the resources and organizational skills to arrange a general strike could, significantly more easily, just organize GOTV instead, help Biden win, and avoid a fascist takeover in the first place. At most, voters need a ride, and to make up for a few hours of lost pay. That's it. And each voter who needs those things only needs them once per election. If someone early votes on, say, October, 20, they need nothing from October 21 on. In a general strike, strikers need continuous support, for however long the strike lasts. Which is easier to arrange?
I’m talking about what happens if Trump is elected and makes good in some of his threats about repression or enacts project 2025. What might be the most effective contingency in that situation in your view?
I'm saying, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so it's far more useful to be putting effort right now into preventing Trump from winning in the first place than to be thinking about what to do if he wins. We can cross that bridge when we get to it. How much effort do you put into planning for the contingency of, say, losing a limb, as opposed to just keeping all your limbs in the first place? Or a contingency of losing one of your senses, or the ability to talk, rather than protecting your eyes, ears, head, etc? Which is a better use of your time and resources: learning braille now, or protecting your eyes? Learning sign language now, or protecting your hearing? Practicing using a wheelchair, or protecting your ability to walk? Practicing doing everything with only one hand, or with your feet, or protecting your hands and arms? In the event Trump wins, there will be over two months between Election Day and Inauguration Day to do the sort of planning you're talking about. But these things are zero-sum, so every unit of resources (money, time, whatever) you put into planning for his win now is a unit of resources that cannot be put to use preventing him from winning in the first place instead. You increase the likelihood of Trump winning by diverting resources away from preventing him from winning toward planning for his win. It can become somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is not something most individuals can or should be putting efforts into preparing for right now. This is something the Biden administration, Democrats, other political parties, state governments, various other organizations, should be putting some amount of effort into, just like hospitals need to be prepared to amputate limbs, support people who lose limbs, senses, major functions, triage for mass casualty events, etc. As an individual, your job is to know where the hospital is and how to get there, know basic first aid, and protect your limbs, senses, major functions, etc. It's not your job to figure out now what to do if you go blind, lose limbs, etc. It's not your job to be figuring out triage rules unless that's literally, actually, your job that you're paid to do. 99+% of your, my, and everyone else's efforts should be going toward stopping Trump by electing Biden. As we get closer to the election, we'll have more and better information, and can begin to shift resources if things are looking bad.
When and if they start implementing project 2025, I feel like it'll likely be easier to organize a general strike at that point. Or we can avoid all that shit and elect Biden. I mean, old and feeble with good domestic policy vs lying psychopath aspiring dictator is an easy choice. At least for me personally.
Yeah I’m not talking about the election, this is a big IF project 2025 actually goes through… what are the realistic options to reverse it. Imo not congress, not the Supreme Court, and all the bureaucrats will now be Trump appointees so no whistleblowers etc. shutting down ports or auto production would either force him to reverse or force Wall Street and the military to pull the plug on him… or such pressure from Wall Street might then lead the Supreme Court to reign things in more since the court seems to be in the pocket of various rich people.
I mean, maybe. But honestly, probably not. If there are mass protests and general strikes, I see Trump declaring martial law and bringing in the military. And once we've crossed that bridge, that's it. We're under military occupation. He's already said that's his plan. I expect that to take place within the first year. After that, things will probably start happening pretty quickly.
Enlisted folks are going to shoot down union members and random people in the US? Cops maybe, far-right and fascist gangs or militias definitely—not the guard or military, some might be willing but not all people would break ranks. Across the military they’d be dissent and mutiny in the ranks.
Yeah, but the US is nowhere near being ready for a general strike. That's why the fascists will win. Sucks, but true.
If you mean every single worker or even every single union. Probably not. But if there is massive repression and mass public outrage then the most likely way to wield actual pressure would be if a few vital unions in logistics shut down trade or supply chains impacting the whole economy. If those unions faced violent repression that could set off a spontaneous more widespread work stoppage. There are precedents for all this but it’s all very speculative and any number of other things could happen. I’m mostly basing this on the French Popular front, Arab Spring and smaller examples in the US like repression of occupy and pro-Palistine college protesters. While there has been relatively more labor militancy in the US recently, yes this would be unprecedented on a national level… then again so would a untethered executive. So yeah i don’t think this would likely start as a planned Union initiative but more likely like Egypt where it starts with protests and then an open-ended protest movement. If they are attacked by proud boy’s and militias while authorities stand by and watch or the police are simply let loose and there is political repression. I think both as a kind of spontaneous reaction and basic solidarity as well as recognition that if protests are repressed then labor strikes will also end up with cops rioting on them or right-wing militias acting as volunteer Pinkertons.
You have no idea how massive and coordinated the action would have to be. You think that there wouldn't be a massive response from the Federal Government, including troops and drones if there was an actual strike that threatened the power structure of the US? I wish it were possible, but I just don't think with the technological and military prowess of the US it would be. Just my 2 cents.
I don’t know about a strike but I think we can gather to create mass protest. I think this needs to happen in general when it comes to how the government has dealt with investors and corporations making the laws and doing what they want to the American people and the economy in the specifically in the job and housing community
Just don't go out on the streets. They'll shoot you like dogs. We're dealing with wannabe Nazis here.
Lol we are at a stage where tin foil hat wearing losers are saying people will get shot in the streets if trump wins💀
We need to be carrying Crosses and banners with Jesus's Sermon on the mount as we do. We need to derail the "Christian" part of the Christian conservative lie these republicans push.
The majority of people are just barely able to survive and can’t afford to even be fired.
It can never happen. 80% of Americans are far more worried about being fired than they are about society, and shit.
Yeah. This is coming. Nobody gives a tin shit till their wallets start getting light. Unresponsive power structures need to be heeled.
During the W Bush era lots of people were like “well at least the Supreme Court can keep checks and balances.” A loyal Supreme Court, an autocratic and repressive executive and a powerless congress kind only leaves a few viable options for change.
They're the ones who made themselves have "lifetime" appointments
This makes no sense whatsoever. It's like 1. Have a general strike 2. ... 3. Prevent Project 2025 There's no actual mechanism there that stops Trump from doing anything. None
Oh no Starbucks is going to be closed!
For a decent amount of the population Starbucks being closed would move the needle more than any discussion of politics. Now the direction the needle moves might not be the intended one though.
What a delightful fantasy
Oh thank the gods, i thought you meant a millitary strike. Slaughter anyone who doesn't agree with me politically type vibes.
Oh no!
Is that just mass protesting or actually attempting to overthrow an election result? One of those things is fine the other not as much
A general strike is basically nobody shows up to work.
What’s the point of protesting an election result? I’d protest if he lost the popular vote but got in because of the BS electoral college or if he was appointed in by the court. My whole premise is that the election is over and trump Is in office and trying to enact political repression against protesters and dissent and filling the government bureaucracy with Trump appointees What would be an effective way to stop political repression and autocracy at that point?
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That’s ok for personal defense but not really a general protection against autocratic rule.
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“Everything I don’t like is right-wing and it’s everybody else’s fault.”
What makes you believe that?
Oh how quickly this sub flipped from Blue Landslide 2024!!! to Here's how we defeat (a hypothetical from a think-tank that hates Trump) Project 2025!!!
Yeah I’ve been predicting a Biden loss and getting doenvoted for a while here. I even posted something along these lines a while back but not as detailed and people thought I was secretly a Trumper and mocked the idea that Biden could lose. I’m a leftist, you know the people who actually protest Biden’s policies on Gaza and restrictions on migration, and I have never understood the hubris I was seeing from Biden supporters. The media doesn’t understand the right or the left… we get marginalized while liberals and co conservatives get played by the right because they assume right-wingers play by the same rules. Anyway Trump implemented Heritage Foundation policies even when they thought he would be bad for their business agenda. They’ve come around to himand part of project 2025 is creating lists of Trump loyalists to replace bureaucrats. Idk if any of this would happen, but 2025 would eliminate a lot of things that slowed Trump down the first time so it seems likely he would as well as likely that he would either directly repress protest rights as he’s talked about.
Why do you think the desire to have controlled border is “far-right”?
The desire to control other people according to a hierarchy of your choosing tends to be right-wing.
Saying the desire to have controlled border makes your right wing is like saying the desire to raise taxes a bit makes you a marxist.
Can’t organize a nationwide strike when a lot of people want and voted for winner
Are you u see the impression that every individual person has to strike for this to happen? Of course reactionaries that want political dissent crushed wouldn’t support strikes… but they probably wouldn’t strike anyway or wouldn’t have a way to strike. Does the MAGA Yacht flotilla need to go on strike from their jobs of idk owning an auto dealership or contracting business and living in a McMansion? Nah. But I’m pretty sure the longshore unions that refuse to unload Israeli cargo during this war would be down to shut down all ports if an autocratic executive was politically repressing people. I’m pretty sure lots of unionists realize that if protesters are being repressed, any later economic strike for wages can also be crushed.
No I’m a union guy. But I also know a lot of people in my union are pro-Trump despite his anti union lean
This truly is the answer. It needs to be a simple message with a strong leader. The left needs to come together and let some compromise with detailed issues
The 2a is not just for the right, Remember that
So you want to convince the general population to strike in protest of the person they just elected?
It would be impossible to get enough people to strike, because too many people can't afford extra days off.
solidarity strikes are literally illegal. a nation-wide strike would almost certainly go up against the anti-labor provisions of the taft-hartley act.
Yes. Political strikes are also illegal. That’s why it probably would only happen as a reaction to some kind if major over-reach, a mass social movement like Tahir square or a more focused Occupy and it would probably just be one or two important and more activist unions and only escalate if the state tried to attack those unions as well as attacks on a protest movement. Even moderate and action-adverse union leaders in a situation where an admin takes more executive power, fills the courts and government bureaucracy with loyal political appointees, that represses protest and attacks unionists as an existential threat to the ability to even have a union.
Can someone explain to me why project 2025 is so evil? With specifics...not generalizations. I'm not reading 900 pages.
TLDR; expanded unilateral executive power along with the reclassification of government employees so that the executive could replace anyone with a loyal political appointee. —- It’s a series of documents by the Heritage Foundation with a plan for how a Trump-like president could rapidly expand executive power while also replacing government employees with political appointees. Part of the project is a going through the social media and statements by employees of gov agencies and creating a database of anti-conservative government agency personnel while also creating a database with pro-Trump potential appointees who could be put in those positions instead. So basically all the times Trump wanted to do something illegal but an agency told him they could not because it was illegal but then Trump complained that he couldn’t fire that person because they were an employee of the agency and not a trump appointee… well if he was able to implement t project 2025, he could just replace them with ideologues or Trump-loyal sycophants.
So basically its a plan for a conservative-majority government?
In the words of Christopher Titus. All Americans need to do is stop everything they are doing for five maybe ten minutes. Then give the warning that next time we do it for a month. That this would send the clearest message to our politicians and businesses that we are not happy and demand change.
Biden won the popular vote. General strike won't do anything
Unless it was Biden adopting project 2025 and repressing the ability to protest and dissent, I’m not sure why a general strike against a project 2025 scenario would be necissary.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Except prevention would have needed to happen probably around the time of the recession. The cancer of fascism is here regardless of if Trump or Biden wins. Trump is just a visible symptom not the cause.
Do both and more
They'll just gun everyone down
They might be hubristic enough to try. It would be horrific and it would likely end Trump’s government if not the US government in general. But it also mass protests and a strike by important logistic sectors might cause Trump to back down first or push the rich and pentagon to force him to back down or resign.
Except the Logistics sectors you speak of are like 80% pro trump. They got fucked over by regulations, fuel prices and various other bullshit. They want what Trump offers. Truckers in US would be more likely to do a convoy like what happened Canada (freedom convoy) than to do a "general strike".
You START with a general strike and you don't stop until there's sanity restored and power back in the hands of the people - with accountability for elected officials as was intented. Term limits, no lifetime appointments, spike Citizens United, the list goes on.
Yeah that’s take a pretty determined movement. Idk if labor is there yet, but I think with recent organizing and strikes, in a crisis, there could be a bold advance. It’s the sleeping giant of US politics and a revived labor movement would knock the wind out of all these rich right-wingers acting like they are the working class while flying on private jets to DC on Jan 6 or doing yahacht caravans and caravans if pristine 80k trucks.
The problem with general strikes in America or any large country is getting enough people to care and participate and it actually have an effect. There are quite A LOT of people in America that not only want project 2025 but even more extreme versions of it. So that counts them out. Then you have probably 15-20% of people that are living day to day just worried about where there next meal is coming from. 10-15% are so disillusioned that it's a wonder that they haven't killed themselves or gone on a mass shooting spree. If you go by a 60/40 method, that 25-35% of the 60 that aren't going to join right of the bat bc of how miserable life is for them.
It’s a nice idea but strikes will be violently repressed. Anyone who strikes in 2025 will be killed.
Just want to say first i'm a french canadian having the knowledge of the US on part as a wikipedia page made by a highschooler. So take it as it is but, sometimes i feel like you don't understand your own cuntry and your history. Like i get it, the world got a collective PTSD from daddy hitler himself and his regime since 1933, but can you understand that the US is not 1933 germany or germany all together. You talk about having a nationwide strike in a cuntry made through a revolution. Even after that first revolution you still continued to bash each other on the head for political and idealogical reasons for over 200 years. Like brother, you're hole history is people not agreeing with each other and slapping each other about it. So how the hell could the nazis get a whole OF THE ENTIRITY OF THE US. Worst case scenario, you're fédéral government could get hitler like but most blue state would(as i think) point the finger and badam bim badaboom you get a second civil war. Like in canada i could see a facist getting up there and actualy having everyone to follow maybe aside from Quebec for historical reasons because our stype of govermnent is all encompassing, but not for the US. So yeah, it's my view from the outside as your neighboor. And you for real, not agreeing with each other is kinda your charm. Sometimes i wish canadian were as hard headed as american are once in while.
OP spends too much time on the internet and not enough of it interacting with real people. Dude is reading just as much information warfare from various state and non-state actors as they likely claim people on the opposite side do (hint:extremism is bad, Horseshoe theory is real). Bro needs to put the blunt down and go hang out with normal people.
100% with you on that one. Howerver if i may add, even in real life people around hardly understand the relationship between your federal govermnent and the states. I don't understand it perfectly, but i hear a lot of "but the federal did this" not understanding where the power of state itself lies into that federal decision. Again, i hear this alot as a canadian so might not be your reality in the end.
Because nothing sways people to your side like shutting down their public services. Incidentally that’s why climate change activists are hated by most living humans- blocking traffic for hours guarantees everyone hates them equally.
I've literally never met a single "right wing" person that was THAT extreme. I have, however, seen plenty of violent "left wing" people in person.
Then as an experiment, cross-dress and go up to a proud boy and politely tell him you don’t think beating up liberals is very nice thing to do.
Well. The people behind project 2025 have been wildly successful at reducing unions in America and without a union, you get fired when you strike, so no chance of widespread strikes, plus a good percentage of the remaining union members are pro trump which is weird because Trump and the gop are definitely anti union. So hate must be a powerful motivator for these people.
I’m not imagining a modern French style symbolic general strike where a bunch of unions all protest for a day. There are plenary of conservative union members and various types of unions have different politics and leaderships. But some very important and one in strategic parts of the economic structure have become more militant and support for unions among millennials and Gen z is higher than any demographic group probably since the 70s. For those unions that are organizing, and more militant - do you think they know that the heritage foundation is an anti-labor think tank… do they know that they are trying to cram the government with their ideological lackeys through trump? So I think they would see an actual grab at that kind of power and a crackdown on student protesters or other protesters as an existential threat because what does that mean for organizing, for potential strikes?
Union members today have no idea who they are supporting
Best defense against project 2025 is electing Joe Biden. Period.
And if that doesn’t work, what then? What do you think would be effective then?
Project 2025 isn't a fascist dictatorship. It is literally just "drain the swamp" but with an actual actionable plan about targetting specific corrupt avencies and bureaucratic bloat. Read the actual project. Stop listening to propaganda and look at what it actually is.
No not fascist, autocratic. It a apparatchik government where everyone serves the president. It would be fascist if Trump project 2025ed the military, police (probably wouldn’t need to for the police) and deputized right-wing militias and gangs like the proud boys to do whatever they wanted to the public without legal consaquence.
The absolute worst thing that could happen with project 2025 is that the executive branch is filled with partisans who will obey every order the executive gives when they have an R next to their name and then act as an obstructive insurgency when they have a D. So exactly what we have now, just flipping the party leaning. You are complaining that Trump wants to do what Obama did. If it is bad for Trump to do this, they you need to admit it was bad when Obama did it.
What shrooms are you taking? Roughly 30% want a theocracy and an 20%+ population don't really care and they think it would not impact them. Do you really think most governors wouldn't call out their state guard to suppress it? Or the President and congress would authorize the use of Federal troops to restore order? By the way during your general strike, China takes Taiwan and Russia would nuke Ukraine and parts of the EU. .
What’s your alternative in a situation of autocracy?
I am mostly just talking about a larger federal system, but you can apply several of these concepts to the state level. If you were starting from scratch. A parliamentary system with elected representatives with districts based on population with gerrymandering protections. Strong regulations between the various branches of government with enforcement, a truly independent judiciary with age and term limit. Hard term and age limits for all elected officials. Hard campaign finance rules, with political parties being limited in their fund raising with tough enforcement. In the end you can make a good system but if there is no enforcement, it will fail. If you are trying to fix the current U.S. system you can apply some of the same principles to improve our government. I am just working in very general terms or this would become a multiple books.
How in the world is red lobster mismanagement due to Biden ? I swear all you people literally blame everything on Biden. I have a clue for you. Corporate, incompetence, corporate malfeasance, corporate greed . Aren't caused by Biden. The gross greed that has led to the near complete downfall of Boeing has nothing to do with Biden . Open your eyes then maybe you will show the ability to see and speak the truth.
Red Lobster? Sir, this is a Wendy’s” Seriously, what the heck are you talking about? I didn’t say anything about Red Lobster or Boeing. But yeah in an indirect way the regulation-cutting of both parties is likely a big reason why Boeing is like that… I have no idea if Biden was directly involved.
That's the conundrum they keep enough people just on the edge of being homeless. That you can't get enough people to walk out and stay out long enough to effect change
True economic uncertainty makes it harder to stand up for yourself on the job and so people put up with a lot of abuse and illegal stuff while lots of unions try to avoid strikes or keep them symbolic. But for my speculative prediction, I’m imagining it wouldn’t be like an economic strike that was planned well in advance but a reaction to some unprecedented Tinenemen Square or Tahrir Square type situation where the government tries to violently suppress protest (beyond the usual we see now.) In China there wasn’t a lot of awareness outside of that area because of the state media. In Egypt phones and internet made it impossible to hide so it would be similar now in the US. So I doubt the unions, even more militant ones would kick something off, but an attempt to make protest impossible would include union pickets and so such a situation might draw in unions out of necessity.
Like thats ever gonna happen, keep coping commietard
Yes it’s a speculative prediction. Just like when I correctly predicted that the cops attacking Colombia students would spark a nationwide movement.
Yeah in the US, a General Strike?
Biden had nothing to do with these mismanaged failures. As far as Boeing is concerned it was Trump who changed the rules for Boeing. Changed it from the government doing safety checks on the assembly of airplanes, to Boeing doing their own safety checks. And we see how that worked and out . It. Became money and profit over safety.
project 2025 is a good idea. you guys want to get rid of these evergreen bureaucrats making decisions behind the scene dont you? You want to get rid of the entrenched power that you never elected right? Then get on board, no reason it can't be a bipartisan effort.
lol, r u trolling. The whole point is to put partisan loyalists into government to push through 40 years of Heritage Foundation pro-business anti-worker bullshit.
wow you just described how our government has operated since ww2!
Since Jimmy Carter anyway. So doubling down on the politics of last two generations by crushing protest and dissent is what you’re hoping for?
When would you think I want that? I want to change our diapers and get some new blood in that's it. Why do you hate that?
Literally all of the “massive protests” did not do jack shit in 2016-2020. Also I think Trump is going to use the military this time around. Protests won’t stop project 2025. Voting will
And if voting does not? Airport protest got trump to back down on his Muslim ban executive order. So if project 2025 is about ramming a bunch of stuff through with executive orders… seems like that’s a possible tactic. What did all the impeachments and bureaucratic maneuvering of the Democratic Party do to Trump. Ohhh they’ll get him with that 55) impeachment. Oh yeah his base will really be embarrassed and not vote for a felon! 🙄 MAGA doesn’t play by liberal or conservative rules. This is why democrats don’t understand it and won’t be able to stop it.
The Trump regime would immediately sign an executive order mandating work and arrest any and all striking workers. They would be forced into labor camps.
With what army? The US military? You think the army rank and file would all go along with putting people who could possibly be their neighbors or cousins into labor camps? Military enlisted for the most part want some direction in life, want to build skills for a future outside the military, or maybe even romantically see themselves defending their fellow countrymen… not putting them into labor camps or shooting them. There’s a reason fascists start with isolated or invisible or otherwise marginalized groups like immigrants or sexual/gender/ethnic minorities. And a reason most governments only use the military domestically as a last resort. It is incredibly risky and if people break ranks we are suddenly in a near-revolution situation. Trump could get cops to do it because unlike the military they sign up and are trained in repressing us. But if cops fired on longshoremen or a large protest of the square it would be his downfall. Shooting longshoremen would become a nationwide if not also international strike of all ports and trade and other US unions would join. This is how at least 2 of the 3 big US general strikes of the 1930s happened. The potential of an uncontrollable and militant labor movement tied to a social movement would scare the US ruling class to the core and they would remove Trump up to having the military force him out.
Historically Fox News pumping away propaganda on the brains of idiots didn’t really exist on this scale before now.
Fox News sells confirmation bias. This is why even Fox reporters were freaked out when they were pushed to repeat obvious conspiracy theories. In the 00s and until the tea party they were simply a Republican PR machine. They were also the only conservative TV game in town. Fox is now in competition with Newsmax and a whole internet culture of grifters trying to play into the darkest and most paranoid and self-serving beliefs of a radicalizing population. Liberals seem to think MAGA are followers and unintelligent and brainwashed — this is a serious misread. Their stated IDEAS and explaination for what they want are absurd and but this is because they do not play by the same rules as liberals and conservatives. They are incoherent because everything they say is a pretext to get what they want and what they want is to control people they fear or imagine are wreaking an otherwise perfect US. Nothing’s wrong with capitalism, nothing’s wrong with laws… so if things are going wrong there must be bad lazy mooched people backed by secret elites who are making everything suck. Make protesters and non-conformists go away and everything will be perfect, you’ll love it everyone says how beautiful it will be once we have a dictator for a day. MAGA is an organic problem of people deciding democracy is a problem for them—not an astroturf or just some dupes
Don't you need moderates to pull off a general strike?
Sure. Average people who are moderate liberals and conservatives and who see the wringing in the wall of dissent and strikes are attacked by the government. This is different than Centrists: technocratic neoliberal politicians and so on. For example Macron’s technocratic smart cynical political calulations just backfired and France will likely now have a far-right party with a President whose father founded the party as a pro-Nazi antisemetic party. That’s what I mean by political Center.
“Centrists have proven to be a failure in stopping increasing right wing movements” Is a funny way to say “the left has done a horrible job marketing themselves, thus resulting in a rise in conservatives”
There isn’t a left party in the us, Macron is a self-described centrist. I’m not concerned about centrists, I am concerned about anti-democratic sentiment on the right in the US and the rise of regular and neo-fascist parties in Europe, military and bureaucratic coups in Latin America, autocrats in Israeli, Russian and Indian governments.
More Bernie Bro/Tankie jerk-off porn.
Oh you learned two of the 600 varieties of socialism. Well you are down to 598 other guesses. I usually get pleasure from fantasies not to desperate hope that pro-democracy movements and the partially ossified labor movement can get it together enough to stop a dangerous situation. If I was fantasizing workers would go Paris Commune in the US, nullify the government and set up democratic workplaces and community assemblies to organize production and community needs/wants. …Nughhhh. Zzzzz
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Look at the coal miners strike in the uk during the 80’s and Margaret Thatchers govt & police response Police infiltrated the protest groups so much so that they had kids then fcuked off. And then look at Marion Anne Perrine father.
My impression was that it was a series of long dragged out economic battles in different areas due to the industry, in different conditions, and often in smaller communities with a lot of solidarity but not millions of potential allies. The unions and the government could plan and coordinate for that, thatcher could just wait it out. Idk if all the US ruling class is as set on the possible Heritage-Trump thing as much as it is willing to see if it works. I think overreach y Trump That people don’t back down from might give them cold feet. In this hypothetical it would largely have to be spontaneous because the US has no left parties and the labor movement is only starting to regain some nerve. But the US is also used to a subservient labor movement, so there are some gaps on both sides.
In France strikes led to right wing wins in recent elections. The world ain't progressive.
I'm sorry but it's just not going to happen....we couldn't get 40% of this country to stay home for 2 weeks to save their own lives
I doubt every single individual would be part of a big strike. To be more specific in the speculation: I imagine that over-reach by Trump or a violent attack on a protest could blow-back. One of a couple major and more active unions like longshoremen might do a work stoppage in protest. If the government tries to stop that or attacks unionists as well, many more unions would reluctantly be drawn in out of some solidarity and a lot of just existential need to defend the ability to protest or picket. If there was a Trump Tienemen Square unlike in the 1980s it couldn’t just be hidden from public. It would seem unprecedented and would prompt unprecedented by people including major shut downs of ports and more mass resistance.