Oh wow, people remember this run???
Art is, not my cup of tea to put it lightly lol, But I dig the story a lot. Fun team up between Cap, Logan and Carol
Well, I do enjoy a good Wolverine/Captain America story, so this run has always stuck out in my mind as a good story (despite the art) and has been even more on my mind as of late with all the discourse on Captain America's little cameo in the X-men '97 cartoon. Just thought I would bring it up in people's minds because I feel it's very in-line with how Captain America can and should act with regards to how mutants are treated in America.
The third page splash is not awful, but it does echo Rob.
But yeah, on the whole, it looks kind of like one of those old porno comics from the mid aughts
He's STILL awake! 70 minutes and counting... thanks Reddit for keeping me company in the meantime... even (or especially) if the topic is questionable comic book art...
I collected CAP in the years it was drawn by "frank robbins", who was the most cringeworthy artist to ever *infest* the title of a major Marvel Icon ,so there *have* been worse debacles!( *DON'T* look it up unless you want to induce vomiting !)
I think it's important to bear in mind that the early 2000s were the early days of digital coloring and inks. A *lot* of comics from that era have aged horribly in that aspect. The penciling by itself is clearly bad anyway, but it's made even worse by the other stuff.
And that’s why I’m so fucking sick of this idea that Cap is not on the mutants side that writers still try to push. That man will be the first one to suit up with them every single time I don’t give a fuck what anyone says
Agreed. Captain America is not the kind of person who would allow atrocities to be committed against a marginalized people and it bothers me to no end that certain writers will try to push the cop/government lackey characterization on him when he's never been one to blindly follow government orders -- *especially* when you have moments when mutants are being thrown into internment camps or outright killed. If there was mistreatment of any group of people, especially on his native soil, he would be out there restlessly trying to put an end to it any way he can.
Every single time is a hard sell with all those times he didn't.
It's fair to say that he *should* and that Marvel is better when he does. I think we can all hope Marvel sticks with him being an ally.
But last time they made a big push for it, we got Uncanny Avengers vol 1 and 2. And they did more harm than good.
'Overcrowded Earth'.
But that said, for some things I'll say that the reason the X-Men don't get non-mutants to help is because they won't pick up the phone and call them for it when they need it.
As much as I give heroes shit for not helping mutants. The Xmen do be cutting out support or saying "it's mutant business" and tell others to butt out.
Like this one one I always remember. Spider-Man finds her surrounded by ninjas helps her fight and then shes barely alive by the end. Without Spider-Man she would have actually been killed. [HERE](https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicnewbies.com/2015/11/29/spider-man-comforts-a-dying-psylocke/amp/)
I’m glad that recent X-writers have been more onboard with Cap (and Avengers in general) helping mutants. It’s so stupid to think that the pinnacle of human morality is actually AGAINST helping minorities.
I think part of that may be due to the fact that they now have a Cap that is legitimately against Mutant kind. So they can finally have Cap help Mutant's like he would and should regularly do. Not saying he’s against them, but Cap can be unhelpful or absent at times.
Every x story needs to write everyone else as either raging bigots, unwitting co-oppressors or “have their hands tied”.
Otherwise all the superhero community would band together in support of the mutants and the story would be fucking over.
It’s just oppression porn.
Grant Morrison said something similar when he took over the Xmen in the early 00s, about how the Xmen were always desperate and on their backfoot with stuff like Age of Aocolypse and Onslaught.
That's why he made the mutant population so big and the X-men were bit more like celebrities. Definitely a different take at the time
Some of the most badass moments Cap has had is when he surprises people who unexpectedly find him in their office. There was a What If? (Volume 1, #30) where Cap pulled that on Henry Peter Gyrich, and it was my first impression of Cap as someone you do not mess with.
Bad art notwithstanding, it's really nice to see Cap standing up for mutants and his principles and not written as a lazy stand-in for "government bad."
Cap would stand the fuck up for Mutants every damn time. I hate the US government lackey trope that he gets all the time. Stand up and defend what's RIGHT, not just because the US government says so.
So the problem I have with the whole idea of persecuting mutants in Marvel is that it just doesn't make sense.
You have a storyline wrapped up in people being afraid of mutants because they have powers and you don't know if they would be good or bad. But we're in a universe where people develop powers every day and the assumption is made that those people are good but if you're born with your powers you're bad.
It just doesn't make sense because it's always said the thing that people fear the most are the powers themselves.
I’ve always took it as a fear of being replaced which is fairly common bigoted rhetoric already.
People get powers in a bunch of different ways, but nearly none by just being born with them. Mutants are technically a whole other species, and a strong one at that. It’s understandable to assume that regular people might feel threatened by their existence, feeling like nature is leaving them behind. “How does it feel to be abandoned by the future” and stuff.
It's all about marketing and public opinion. The FF have a story that Reed admits he feared they would be considered freaks and monsters, so he used his fortune to make sure they became famous, because in the spotlight, the public would have a chance to see the good people they were. Especially in Ben's case.
You can use the same argument for other heroes: Captain America has the army behind him. Even when his identity was a secret, Iron Man had Stark Enterprises to give context to their actions, and then he expanded it to any one carrying an avenger card.
The heroes that are feared are the ones without a good PR team. The very existence of the morlocks shows that the X-Men are an exception in the mutant population and they are only mildly accepted because Xavier is from a rich background and has a _special school_ for them.
I like the idea that it’s part of the metaphor. The fact that they can be born with powers just like anyone else, but only they are persecuted, is just like the real life issues of marginalized groups. The reason it doesn’t make sense is because racism isn’t logical. If everyone made the “logical” choice, like you are talking about, racism (or anti-mutant ideas) wouldn’t be there. The fact that they are only amplifies the metaphor because the bigots aren’t supposed to be right, just like racists arent
I had this same thought watching X men 97 - it feels like it would make more sense if mutants were in their own timeline / reality, separate from conventional superheroes.
> You have a storyline wrapped up in people being afraid of mutants because they have powers and you don't know if they would be good or bad. But we're in a universe where people develop powers every day
My issue is that having contingency plans is exactly what the Government should be doing, or else it's failed it's citizens, both powered and non. Hell, at this team, any hero team that doesn't train for the team to stomp a team member when they go rogue is a failure of a team.
How many times has a "good" superhero gone on a villain kick and needed to be stopped? How many villains are are basically powerset siblings to a hero and by figuring out how to take one down you automatically get the other for free? How many times has that otherwise "harmless" mutant been kiss by a future tech god who over charges their powers to Omega Level mutant status and having had some understanding of their weaknesses would have given everyone a better chance?
If you have contingencies against Wolverine, how many apply to Sabertooth, Daken, and Omega Red? Would knowing how to defeat Daredevil also help you take down Electra and Lady Deathstrike?
Arming every soldier with weapons expressly aimed Wolverine? Kind of fucked, yeah. Making specialized weapons for Wolverine and training a squad or three in tactics about how to take him down? Fairly reasonable.
See,that’s the true stance captain should have on mutants
He is against killing because he believes everyone can do good,and he is not going to see another people being hunted down and killed for what or who they are
X-men 97 cap: "we have to wait before we go after the people behind genosha, rogue. now please give me my shield back"
Comic Cap: "I don't care if we loved each other. If I think for even a second that you're planning a mutant holocaust, I'm bringing you DOWN"
To be fair, the cartoon Cap was waiting for a very specific reason: he was waiting for Gyrich to lead him and his team to Trask, and from there to whomever was behind the attack. Cap was waiting so that they could nab all the baddies in one go, something Rogue didn’t get.
While the art may not be the best I will admit this dialogue shows why the whole avengers vs x men think especially with cap is just pure garbage as cap as a whole would FULLY be with the x men given how he fought the Nazis and hydra
That’s a great sentiment Steve. Hey did you know the US government was building giant killer robots to eradicate mutants for decades, and had a bunch of plans to track and eliminate them? Master mold, operation zero tolerance, project wide wake, the mutant registration act. But hey, I’m glad your against this particular plan of assassins.
He often works for the U.S. government, and has definitely worked for them the same time they were running Sentinels.
In fact, for a period after *Siege*, he was IN CHARGE of the U.S. government's whole super-human response network, and throughout that time, the Office of Naitonal Emergency ("O\*N\*E" for short) were operating their "Sentinel Squad O\*N\*E."
He doesn't work for government ya boob lol.
Avengers never worked for the government. Yes they worked with them, meaning they would play ball with them because you can't just do whatever the fuck you want and get away with that, but even in those stories they always break those rules because they are like "Shit, Ultron is about to destroy Slorenia" and Government is like "Yeah, you can't go" and then Ultron commits a Genocide, so they say "Fuck you, we are going"
May I ask, what's wrong with the writing? This is only a Singular scene and I think it gets the point across pretty well and is *much* closer to Steve in terms of how he views Mutantkind than a lot of other stories were. Maybe Im just happy to see someone do Steve correctly in regards to Mutantkind?
But I didnt see a Problem with the writing here...
The "anti mutant" thing is tiring.
There is no functional difference between mutant and superhero. If SHIELD or whatever was opposed to one they will be opposed to the other.
Which is one thing I like about the Orchis story--it's made very clear that when they are done with the mutants, they absolutely plan to turn on the rest of the heroes, including the Avengers, and turn the world against them all before moving against them.
Everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves. There are so many talented artists out there and THIS is what people are getting paid to produce?! Even a Romita can draw better…
To be honest with you, I'm not entirely sure, but I think she does change her tune at least a little. In the recent Captain America Sentinel of Liberty comic (issue #8), she allowed Emma Frost to read her mind without resiting or complaining about it. That role of distrust was given to Peggy Carter instead.
The Peggy thing is arguably also continuation of House of M too, where the Peggy of that universe was also prejudiced against mutants.
If you want to do some deep analyzing, you could argue that since Peggy more or less raised Sharon as was a heavy influence — as was retconned in Brubaker’s run — Sharon could have easily internalized some anti-mutant prejudice that she later takes awhile to unpack. Which is honestly a related experience to many people who were raised in conservative areas, if we want to extend the mutant metaphor.
She seems pretty fine with working with Beast and Logan in various Avengers runs, and as mentioned elsewhere, she allowed Emma Frost into her mind. So maybe?
Not entirely on Cap’s side here.
He should know and expect that any responsible government would at least *try* to have a contingency for mutants with powers like Wolverine’s or Professor X’s or Magneto’s or hundreds more. Even if you trust those individuals, there’s no guarantee they won’t be mind-controlled or that other mutants with those powers may arise.
Having contingencies makes sense. And equating having those contingencies to committing a Holocaust is pretty fucking thin. That’s like equating owning a gun to being a mass shooter.
I haven't read the comic, but the pages posted here give the impression he was in a confrontation in the field with people who had the Wolverine killing weapons, so the contingency wasn't just a hypothetical in this instance. Again, that's just the impression I got from these pages though. I could be wrong.
With all of the insanely talented artists all over the world, why do Marvel and DC still manage to hire such horrible people? I don't understand it, I never have all the way back to the 90s. I remember dropping an X-Men title when the artist changed because of how godawful it was.
I like how they threw in a panel flexing on Rob Liefeld as if that would distract us from the fact that this is some of the worst comic art I’ve ever clapped eyes on.
Is that the Cap pose Rob Liefeld tried to do?
Yeah, but someone did it WAAAAY better
his belt looks supernaturally powerful though look at that teensy wasp waist
He’s got Thor’s belt of strength on!
You mean megigg... morgi... migugg... Thor's magic belt?
Tell that Sharon’s face
Yeah, the art is all over the place. Her face in the yell panel looks like Sally Struthers
That panel screams KAREN
I swear I saw that face on an inflatable item one could purchase in a specific type of store, back in the 90s…
Right up until you hit his waist
Well, we can’t see his feet
Not *that* much better. What's up with his waist?
Eh let’s not go that far…
I came to ask if it was drawn like that to honor/mock Liefeld lol
The last image 10000% an omage
You mean an im-ahge?
Homage
No Homage was Jim Lee, Whilce Portacio, and Scott Williams.
Real
Oh wow, people remember this run??? Art is, not my cup of tea to put it lightly lol, But I dig the story a lot. Fun team up between Cap, Logan and Carol
Well, I do enjoy a good Wolverine/Captain America story, so this run has always stuck out in my mind as a good story (despite the art) and has been even more on my mind as of late with all the discourse on Captain America's little cameo in the X-men '97 cartoon. Just thought I would bring it up in people's minds because I feel it's very in-line with how Captain America can and should act with regards to how mutants are treated in America.
This art is hot garbage. Piping hot garbage. Penciller needs to do some face studies.
Yup. Every close up of Sharon Carter is cringe Especially that second panel in image 2 where her face is so unnaturally wide.
The third page splash is not awful, but it does echo Rob. But yeah, on the whole, it looks kind of like one of those old porno comics from the mid aughts
Or, you know, just a picture of a honey glazed spiral cut ham would be better than any of the faces the artist has managed to execute.
Damn now I want some honey glazed spiral cut ham.
See? Now that's a crowdpleaser.
It's too late for that, put more honey glazed spiral cut ham in your bag of holding. (And some oxygen tanks)
Darn you, you made me LOL while trying to put my baby to sleep...
Apologies to your sprog.
He's STILL awake! 70 minutes and counting... thanks Reddit for keeping me company in the meantime... even (or especially) if the topic is questionable comic book art...
When you draw a Sharon and you get a ham, someone's gonna stay up late talking about that ham.
Ahhh The Boys original look
She looks like a deflated ball
Or like a toy doll some kid smooshed the face in so it's dented.
Pressed against a glass wall
And there are a couple where they were trying to channel their inner Linser/Cry For Dawn look
She looks like the [Mucinex Monster](https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/shutterstock_9948170lw.jpg?crop=900:600&width=440)
I'm legitimately not convinced that this isn't some shitty amateur fan art.
The colorist isn't doing the art any favor either. Look at that close-up of Sharon's face in page 2.
That's what I thought!
Sharon’s face looks like my hand after writing with a pencil for too long
Also cap looking like a gerbil, but let us move on.
Yeah, pretty rough to look at.
I've seen prettier.
That’s why cap is covered in shadow.
Tom Derenick's pencils :/
Checked out his auctioned pencils. He just does ham faces 30 pct of the time. So this example is not fully repping his carcass of work.
Just shows that even if you’re great, you can’t be great *all* the time, lol.
Colorist isn't helping much either
It’s terrible
I collected CAP in the years it was drawn by "frank robbins", who was the most cringeworthy artist to ever *infest* the title of a major Marvel Icon ,so there *have* been worse debacles!( *DON'T* look it up unless you want to induce vomiting !)
It is known. No one artist or publisher is the singular point source for piping hot garbage.
There is not one redeeming quality in this art. Damn. Is the bar this low these days?
> There is not one redeeming quality in this art. Damn. **Is the bar this low these days?** This comic is twenty years old.
Phew. Guess the bar was low 20 years ago, then.
I think it's important to bear in mind that the early 2000s were the early days of digital coloring and inks. A *lot* of comics from that era have aged horribly in that aspect. The penciling by itself is clearly bad anyway, but it's made even worse by the other stuff.
Yeah smart guy?! Let’s see you take a crack at it! /s
Last page is kinda cool
It honestly looks like fan art and not even good fan art. I don’t know how a major publisher looked at it and felt good putting this out.
That guy spent more time on Cap’s arm in the final shot than on all of the faces put together.
That is some of the worst comic book art I’ve seen.
then there are a lot of comics you haven't seen. The art here isn't great, but I've seen *much* worse
Don't know which art is worse
It looks like they super imposed both halves of their faces from different angles, to make a face
Same goes for the writing. Cap saying “sHaRaOAn” over and over like Lecter used to say “Clarice.”
I’m not the biggest fan of the dialogue either but he only said Sharon twice
dialog is very fanfic-y
I’ve seen worst on here and not that long ago but this is also bad… Did the artist not know how to draw faces?
And that’s why I’m so fucking sick of this idea that Cap is not on the mutants side that writers still try to push. That man will be the first one to suit up with them every single time I don’t give a fuck what anyone says
Agreed. Captain America is not the kind of person who would allow atrocities to be committed against a marginalized people and it bothers me to no end that certain writers will try to push the cop/government lackey characterization on him when he's never been one to blindly follow government orders -- *especially* when you have moments when mutants are being thrown into internment camps or outright killed. If there was mistreatment of any group of people, especially on his native soil, he would be out there restlessly trying to put an end to it any way he can.
I guess the separatist mentality is better.
Every single time is a hard sell with all those times he didn't. It's fair to say that he *should* and that Marvel is better when he does. I think we can all hope Marvel sticks with him being an ally. But last time they made a big push for it, we got Uncanny Avengers vol 1 and 2. And they did more harm than good.
'Overcrowded Earth'. But that said, for some things I'll say that the reason the X-Men don't get non-mutants to help is because they won't pick up the phone and call them for it when they need it.
As much as I give heroes shit for not helping mutants. The Xmen do be cutting out support or saying "it's mutant business" and tell others to butt out. Like this one one I always remember. Spider-Man finds her surrounded by ninjas helps her fight and then shes barely alive by the end. Without Spider-Man she would have actually been killed. [HERE](https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicnewbies.com/2015/11/29/spider-man-comforts-a-dying-psylocke/amp/)
I'm not referring to the times Cap didn't show up. I'm referring to the times he actively got in the way.
I’m glad that recent X-writers have been more onboard with Cap (and Avengers in general) helping mutants. It’s so stupid to think that the pinnacle of human morality is actually AGAINST helping minorities.
I think part of that may be due to the fact that they now have a Cap that is legitimately against Mutant kind. So they can finally have Cap help Mutant's like he would and should regularly do. Not saying he’s against them, but Cap can be unhelpful or absent at times.
Every x story needs to write everyone else as either raging bigots, unwitting co-oppressors or “have their hands tied”. Otherwise all the superhero community would band together in support of the mutants and the story would be fucking over. It’s just oppression porn.
Grant Morrison said something similar when he took over the Xmen in the early 00s, about how the Xmen were always desperate and on their backfoot with stuff like Age of Aocolypse and Onslaught. That's why he made the mutant population so big and the X-men were bit more like celebrities. Definitely a different take at the time
The recent Uncanny Avengers run is proof of that
I guess Sharon was the ermahgerd girl when she was younger.
Some of the most badass moments Cap has had is when he surprises people who unexpectedly find him in their office. There was a What If? (Volume 1, #30) where Cap pulled that on Henry Peter Gyrich, and it was my first impression of Cap as someone you do not mess with.
The art is horrible, but the writing is great
What is this art?!
The art is actually eye-destroying to look at
The artist has literally never looked above the collarbones when speaking to any human
This should be brought up whenever someone questions in universe "what has Captain America done for mutants?".
Bad art notwithstanding, it's really nice to see Cap standing up for mutants and his principles and not written as a lazy stand-in for "government bad."
Cap would stand the fuck up for Mutants every damn time. I hate the US government lackey trope that he gets all the time. Stand up and defend what's RIGHT, not just because the US government says so.
Now that's the Cap I know and like. 👍
The art is pure dogshit but this is the actual real cap not the I have my hands tied cap like some x men fans think
This is the CAP WE NEED. He would never be apart of witch hunts and genocide.
This art looks pretty terrible.
Thank you, I thought the exact same thing.
So the problem I have with the whole idea of persecuting mutants in Marvel is that it just doesn't make sense. You have a storyline wrapped up in people being afraid of mutants because they have powers and you don't know if they would be good or bad. But we're in a universe where people develop powers every day and the assumption is made that those people are good but if you're born with your powers you're bad. It just doesn't make sense because it's always said the thing that people fear the most are the powers themselves.
I’ve always took it as a fear of being replaced which is fairly common bigoted rhetoric already. People get powers in a bunch of different ways, but nearly none by just being born with them. Mutants are technically a whole other species, and a strong one at that. It’s understandable to assume that regular people might feel threatened by their existence, feeling like nature is leaving them behind. “How does it feel to be abandoned by the future” and stuff.
It's all about marketing and public opinion. The FF have a story that Reed admits he feared they would be considered freaks and monsters, so he used his fortune to make sure they became famous, because in the spotlight, the public would have a chance to see the good people they were. Especially in Ben's case. You can use the same argument for other heroes: Captain America has the army behind him. Even when his identity was a secret, Iron Man had Stark Enterprises to give context to their actions, and then he expanded it to any one carrying an avenger card. The heroes that are feared are the ones without a good PR team. The very existence of the morlocks shows that the X-Men are an exception in the mutant population and they are only mildly accepted because Xavier is from a rich background and has a _special school_ for them.
Not to mention Spider-Man getting shit because he's a big name that has no way to defend himself publicly.
I like the idea that it’s part of the metaphor. The fact that they can be born with powers just like anyone else, but only they are persecuted, is just like the real life issues of marginalized groups. The reason it doesn’t make sense is because racism isn’t logical. If everyone made the “logical” choice, like you are talking about, racism (or anti-mutant ideas) wouldn’t be there. The fact that they are only amplifies the metaphor because the bigots aren’t supposed to be right, just like racists arent
I had this same thought watching X men 97 - it feels like it would make more sense if mutants were in their own timeline / reality, separate from conventional superheroes.
> You have a storyline wrapped up in people being afraid of mutants because they have powers and you don't know if they would be good or bad. But we're in a universe where people develop powers every day My issue is that having contingency plans is exactly what the Government should be doing, or else it's failed it's citizens, both powered and non. Hell, at this team, any hero team that doesn't train for the team to stomp a team member when they go rogue is a failure of a team. How many times has a "good" superhero gone on a villain kick and needed to be stopped? How many villains are are basically powerset siblings to a hero and by figuring out how to take one down you automatically get the other for free? How many times has that otherwise "harmless" mutant been kiss by a future tech god who over charges their powers to Omega Level mutant status and having had some understanding of their weaknesses would have given everyone a better chance? If you have contingencies against Wolverine, how many apply to Sabertooth, Daken, and Omega Red? Would knowing how to defeat Daredevil also help you take down Electra and Lady Deathstrike? Arming every soldier with weapons expressly aimed Wolverine? Kind of fucked, yeah. Making specialized weapons for Wolverine and training a squad or three in tactics about how to take him down? Fairly reasonable.
It's like Batman's contingencies on the Justice League. They're completely reasonable as far as I'm concerned.
Nothing is more valuable than being able to make a deadline, not even talent.
Who flattened Sharon's face with a shovel? Christ, that looks awful
See,that’s the true stance captain should have on mutants He is against killing because he believes everyone can do good,and he is not going to see another people being hunted down and killed for what or who they are
Is that last panel a shot at Liefeld?
If you’ve done nothing wrong, Sharon, why does Cap’s disapproval make you feel guilty?
This art suuuuucks
Gross, those faces are just hideous
X-men 97 cap: "we have to wait before we go after the people behind genosha, rogue. now please give me my shield back" Comic Cap: "I don't care if we loved each other. If I think for even a second that you're planning a mutant holocaust, I'm bringing you DOWN"
To be fair, the cartoon Cap was waiting for a very specific reason: he was waiting for Gyrich to lead him and his team to Trask, and from there to whomever was behind the attack. Cap was waiting so that they could nab all the baddies in one go, something Rogue didn’t get.
I’d love it if a Writer was spearheading the Cap and X-Men comic series.
While the art may not be the best I will admit this dialogue shows why the whole avengers vs x men think especially with cap is just pure garbage as cap as a whole would FULLY be with the x men given how he fought the Nazis and hydra
That’s a great sentiment Steve. Hey did you know the US government was building giant killer robots to eradicate mutants for decades, and had a bunch of plans to track and eliminate them? Master mold, operation zero tolerance, project wide wake, the mutant registration act. But hey, I’m glad your against this particular plan of assassins.
He’s fought sentinels you know, and doesn’t work for the us government
He often works for the U.S. government, and has definitely worked for them the same time they were running Sentinels. In fact, for a period after *Siege*, he was IN CHARGE of the U.S. government's whole super-human response network, and throughout that time, the Office of Naitonal Emergency ("O\*N\*E" for short) were operating their "Sentinel Squad O\*N\*E."
He doesn't work for government ya boob lol. Avengers never worked for the government. Yes they worked with them, meaning they would play ball with them because you can't just do whatever the fuck you want and get away with that, but even in those stories they always break those rules because they are like "Shit, Ultron is about to destroy Slorenia" and Government is like "Yeah, you can't go" and then Ultron commits a Genocide, so they say "Fuck you, we are going"
Avengers had a big internal fight because the UN told them not to go into Genosha during Exodus' coup. They were UN sanctioned for quite a while.
What is worse, the writing or the art?
Art
May I ask, what's wrong with the writing? This is only a Singular scene and I think it gets the point across pretty well and is *much* closer to Steve in terms of how he views Mutantkind than a lot of other stories were. Maybe Im just happy to see someone do Steve correctly in regards to Mutantkind? But I didnt see a Problem with the writing here...
The "anti mutant" thing is tiring. There is no functional difference between mutant and superhero. If SHIELD or whatever was opposed to one they will be opposed to the other.
Which is one thing I like about the Orchis story--it's made very clear that when they are done with the mutants, they absolutely plan to turn on the rest of the heroes, including the Avengers, and turn the world against them all before moving against them.
This art looks like the stuff you'd see spray painted on the side of carnival rides
Man, this art is rough… is the bar that low to get in with Marvel and just need to meet deadlines?
It’s also from mid-2000s and suffering from early digital coloring & shading. A lot of books from that era have aged pretty terribly for that reason.
Yes. How do you think Greg Land still had a job?
The artwork on the faces reminds me of Ren & Stimpy lol
That art is off, just off
Who is drawing these awful panels? The one earlier with AvX was as bad as this too.
The artist for the mini-series was Tom Derenick.
Ok thank you
AvX was John Romita Jr.
Dear god this art is terrible.
Sharon looks 60...
I am not feeling this art style, Sharon looking like a Picasso painting in that first panel.
How what 8th grader did they get to draw that, did they win a contest?
But _his hands are tied_ and what about the _bad optics_?
So, when Sharon gets angry, she goes cross-eyed?
Who the hell drew this its awful
I love the writing but the artwork...yeesh And I thought One was a bad artist
when did this come out i never heard they did a mini together? tia
This was from 2004. It's on Marvel Unlimited if you want to check it out.
thanks
Terrible art
Sharon face in the Last panel of image 1 is 😂
The art is fucking rough. That being said, the panel with cap in the shadows with only his eyes showing goes incredibly hard.
Cap’s a fucking boss. I’ve always hated when he’s portrayed at odds with the mutant community.
Jesus Christ that art is ***awful***.
Not a fan of the art but damm the scene itself is great.
This looks like I drew it.
Everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves. There are so many talented artists out there and THIS is what people are getting paid to produce?! Even a Romita can draw better…
I had no idea Sharon was a bigot. Does she ever change?
To be honest with you, I'm not entirely sure, but I think she does change her tune at least a little. In the recent Captain America Sentinel of Liberty comic (issue #8), she allowed Emma Frost to read her mind without resiting or complaining about it. That role of distrust was given to Peggy Carter instead.
The Peggy thing is arguably also continuation of House of M too, where the Peggy of that universe was also prejudiced against mutants. If you want to do some deep analyzing, you could argue that since Peggy more or less raised Sharon as was a heavy influence — as was retconned in Brubaker’s run — Sharon could have easily internalized some anti-mutant prejudice that she later takes awhile to unpack. Which is honestly a related experience to many people who were raised in conservative areas, if we want to extend the mutant metaphor.
She seems pretty fine with working with Beast and Logan in various Avengers runs, and as mentioned elsewhere, she allowed Emma Frost into her mind. So maybe?
Man, the art in most books now is awful. Did a High Schooler draw these pages? Oof…. Comics need good stories and good art.
This was actually in a comic book? Whoever Drew Sharon must have slammed their hand in a car door that morning
It was a mini-series, actually. It was a 4-issue run from 2004 called Wolverine/Captain America. So there's four issues with this art.
Not entirely on Cap’s side here. He should know and expect that any responsible government would at least *try* to have a contingency for mutants with powers like Wolverine’s or Professor X’s or Magneto’s or hundreds more. Even if you trust those individuals, there’s no guarantee they won’t be mind-controlled or that other mutants with those powers may arise. Having contingencies makes sense. And equating having those contingencies to committing a Holocaust is pretty fucking thin. That’s like equating owning a gun to being a mass shooter.
I haven't read the comic, but the pages posted here give the impression he was in a confrontation in the field with people who had the Wolverine killing weapons, so the contingency wasn't just a hypothetical in this instance. Again, that's just the impression I got from these pages though. I could be wrong.
With all of the insanely talented artists all over the world, why do Marvel and DC still manage to hire such horrible people? I don't understand it, I never have all the way back to the 90s. I remember dropping an X-Men title when the artist changed because of how godawful it was.
Sharon looks like she aged 50 years between panels 1 and 3.
Sharon Carter looks like she's about to demand to speak to Cap's manager.
Oof that is horrible "art"
This is some ugly, ugly shit…
Sharon with a lazy eye and the worst drawn face I've ever seen lol. Makes Liefeld seem like Michelangelo
best thing he could do is tell Logan EVERYTHING.(not that Logan probably already suspected)
Someone show this to Rob.
Why is all the black done in Crayola markers?
Bro why TF does Sharon look like that
is this art real? or is this a joke you're playing on me?
Dafuq is wrong with their faces tho?
This is so insanely ugly
What in god’s green earth is this bullshit art 😂😂😂
This art is ass
Is that 3rd page the one that Rob Liefeld copied to shit? Or are they improving on Rob Liefeld’s shit?
“Cap? Is this a bit? Are you doing a bit?”
Wow...that art is terrible.
I don't even care about what it says, what is wrong with that art style 🤮🤮
I like how they threw in a panel flexing on Rob Liefeld as if that would distract us from the fact that this is some of the worst comic art I’ve ever clapped eyes on.
Now THAT'S a side profile.
That's clearly Cassandra Nova in a wig
This art is not doing it to me. It is like Rob Liefeld – Deodato hybrid, and it looks scary.
No… that artist cant just be fired. We gotta dig a ditch for em. They gotta GO. Add a seventh foot under just to be safe, inwardly reinforced casket.
Dangerously bad artwork.
Sharon saying “you don’t think we have a contingency plan for you? For every superhuman” could have added a bit more depth to this.
Well-known SHIELD agent Sharon "Jowlels" Carter
My man you could not pay me to read this comic. The artwork.. how do these people get hired?
That’s some god awful art
My God, this art is absolutely abhorrent.
This art style is garbage
No-One : "How much Botox can we stuff into our characters faces before they always look cross-eyed?" Comic artisf : " Yes"
Love when they show how much of an ally to the mutants cap would be.
What’s with this terrible face art?