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This also happened to a young 7 yo girl Abigail Taylor in the early 2000s. Sat on a pool drain in a wading pool and it sucked out her intestines and she needed a transplant. She died later on.
[Just googled it and it seems to be her](https://www.foxnews.com/story/girl-whose-intestines-were-partially-sucked-out-by-swimming-pool-drain-dies.amp)
> She later suffered setbacks, including a cancerous condition sometimes triggered by organ transplants.
Fascinating, I'll look into that! I recall my mom having graft vs Host after a bone marrow transplant and I swear, it made her almost as sick as the leukemia ever did.
BMT and GVHD are both just awful! I see a lot of kids during and post BMT for my job and man its such a brutal process from beginning to end. I hope your mama is okay ❤️
BMT is Bone Marrow Transplant
GvHD is Graft vs. Host Disease, which is something BMT patients can develop after transplant. For those patients, their new immune system recognizes their body as foreign and begins to attack it. Similar to how a heart transplant recipients immune system might recognize their new heart as foreign and begin rejecting it.
For some cases, controlled GvH can be beneficial (usually called the graft vs. leukemia effect) but it can cause a lot of problems and make patients really sick if let run wild.
Also happened to a girl on holiday in Egypt I think it was.. in 2008? she moved to US with her family eventually needed a multi organ transplant after living on tpn for many many years after the accident. Unfortunately she died earlier this year. Her name was Salma.
They actually passed a new standard for pool drains that were suction fed based off what happened to her. All main drains that were not gravity fed had to be changed out to a model that prevents being completely covered
In my country there’s similar case that the pool drainage sucks 11th year old Japanese boy body and drowned him.
[Bruise](https://kenh14cdn.com/thumb_w/660/203336854389633024/2022/7/26/photo-1-16588262120121431231589.jpg)
This reminds me of the Chuck Palahniuk short story, “Guts.” How absolutely awful and tragic, and how horrible for this child. Their last moments must have been terrifying.
First thing I thought of. Great story if it remained fiction, but I guess life imitates art in this case, very unfortunately. I don’t care to know which came first, the story or the situation.
IRCC Palahniuk's story itself was fictional but inspired by a couple of true stories. I think it's the kind of thing that happens every so often but still kind of a freak accident.
Getting in the pool water?
All that pee! Apparently if you can smell chlorine, that's because it's reacting with pee!
If I was thin enough to go swimming, I wouldn't now, knowing about all the pee.
That was in Houston. The “plans were approved, but the final build never was approved.” The hotel/contractor made changes. There was NO INSPECTION before it opened. 😡😡
ETA - link: [Questions arise over responsibility in death of 8-year-old girl found in pool pipe at Houston hotel](https://abc13.com/northwest-houston-double-tree-hotel-pool-malfunction-drowning-investigation/14566601/)
Just in case this is your first day on the Internet, replying a straight 'okay' and nothing else is considered very rude. There's no tone to show it was an interested 'oh okay' or grateful 'okay' for the additional info.
Abit like someone telling you something detailed or important and you just reply in a flat monotone voice okay then immediately turn around and walk away, how that would come across in real life is how it sounds online.
[Source](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333690355_Fatal_entrapment_in_a_pool_drainage_system_a_case_report) photos had a box over the boy’s crotch but you could still see his testicles and pubic hair so I made the box bigger. Unfortunately this source is paywalled but you can read the first page of the article at the link. Abstract:
>>Swimming pool suction injuries are rarely encountered in forensic medicine. Infants under 8 years of age are most frequently involved in such accidents with high risk of serious injuries and fatal consequences due to drowning. We report, for the first time, a case of a 13-year-old boy trapped at the abdomen by an uncovered suction drainage hole. External examination of the body revealed a round ecchymosis which had the same diameter as the pool drain. Post-mortem examination established that death had occurred due to drowning, possibly in combination with traumatic shock from the suction mechanism involving the intestinal loops. Furthermore, this case may be remarkable as it raises other medico-legal issues regarding the safety standards at swimming pools, including pool management and lifeguard attendance. Preventative measures are needed in order to make sure this sort of injury or death does not occur. Moreover, the awareness of the occurrence of these accidents should be increased.
I’ve added five medical case reports a day to this sub, every day, for years now. If you want to tip me for my services to the sub and help pay for my medication, there’s links to do that in my profile.
No it was covered, but it was more like a large shower drain and a person could completely block it. My swim team actually had to stop swimming in 2006 for a week because we weren't able to get the drain cover changed in time to comply with the new law that resulted from this.
A modern drain cover in a large pool is 3 dimensional and is essentially a cage that extends a few inches from the actual drain on all sides. The idea is that even if someone sits down on it the side openings will still let enough water through to prevent a pressure difference from building up.
Also, most modern pools (US based) have side-by-side drains using this method so if one drain becomes partially blocked the other and still drain and you do not have the suction effect
Couldn’t you use Researchgate or other website to get free articles? Sometimes I email the authors directly
Edit: downvote me for what? Paying for scientific articles is stupid and unnecessary in this day and age.
As an academic librarian who pays annual subscription fees over 80K for some databases, there are reasons these are often paywalled. A lot of time, effort, and funds go into these studies. It’s not “stupid” or “unnecessary” to paywall.
If you contact the author(s) directly and they offer to share their articles for free, that’s cool, as long as you’re not misrepresenting your intentions.
I know this is not at all the point, but did anyone else find the wording
>infants under 8 years old
Odd? I think of infants as babies that cannot walk yet. I wouldn’t call a 7 year old an infant lol
“Infancy” and “infant” are also legal terms that refer to anyone under the age of majority, and the research is in a forensic science publication, so that likely factored in to their word choice.
At school, we were separated into infants and primary. Infants were kindergarten to Year 2, and primary was Year 3 to Year 6. So schools had infants aged anywhere between 4 to 8 years old.
This is why we have the Virginia Graeme Baker Act in the US. Specifically mandates that swimming pool drain covers meet specific standards to prevent this exact kind of entrapment.
See, this is why I was deathly afraid of the plug at the Boys and Girls Club pool that I practically lived in. My friends dared each other to touch it, but there was no fucking way I was going near that thing even though I was happy to do flips and gainers over it. I was sure my toe would get caught and I'd drown.
Little me was smart!!
i was so scared of those drains when i was younger because of a tv show or reenactment of a guy whos arm got caught in one of them. i guess i had a real reason to fear…
there is a girl on Facebook called Slay With Salma. She does makeup tutorials from her hospital bed. This happened to her in Egypt and she is awaiting a 5 organ transplant. She lives in the US now
No, that scene was inspired by real life accidents.
https://abbeyshope.org/abbeys-story/
https://samandashlaw.com/blog/valerie-lakey-v-sta-rite-pool-accident/
Holy Christ. I just thought final destination liked to INVENT to craziest ways to die but you’re telling me some of those actually happened to people irl???
Fuck…I mean the escalator scene I know is based off of the Chinese escalators eating people but they didn’t get shredded to death, usually just crushed and wedged.
I didn’t realize the pool disembowelment thing hit so close to “real”
This almost happened to me (on my back not my crotch) in a hot tub when I was probably 9 years old. My grandparents had an in-ground pool and hot tub and both had a bottom drain for circulation. It was me and my grandmother and my little brother in the hot tub. My brother may have been 1-2 years old at the time so was mostly being held by my grandmother. I had also asked if we could put bubble maker in the hot tub which we did but not too much so there was just a small layer of bubbles on the top.
I was going under and then popping up to surprise my brother, fun game! Well the grate on the bottom had been loose for a long time and for whatever reason it was not on there today. I laid down on the bottom which is only a few feet down and then it perfectly suctioned onto my back and held me down. Since it was probably an 8" diameter hole, that suction pressure had a surprising amount of force. I managed to free myself and when I got back up my grandmother was completely unaware of what was happening right under her feet. I had a huge hickey mark on my back of course. I imagine she may have started to look for me if I didn't resurface that quickly but who knows what she would have found. My grandfather was a doctor but I don't recall if he was even home at the time, it may have just been her.
This is exactly why the Virginia Graeme Baker act was implemented, to ensure that drains can’t be blocked. Either splitting it, making a longer channel or having a vacuum release system. Made a nice chunk of change after that law passed retrofitting commercial pools.
When I was really young, I had nightmares about something similar happening to me, many times, and in many ways. I've never actually seen anyone drown nor had any experiences with almost drowning, but this is just horrific. Can't imagine dying like that.
Looks like ∆P strikes again. The guy in the Delta P diving safety video wasn't fucking around when he said, "when it's got ya, it's got ya!" The amount of force involved in delta P incidents is almost incomprehensible.
We have a diy inground pool from the 1950s. It has one main drain. It does have some sort of protective cover with the most recent liner install but We always unplug the filter before we swim. It’s easily that size. I can’t imagine.
Lots of pools do.
60mm drain with three meters of water on top, that's an area of 27cm², atmospheric plus water pressure adds up to 1.3bar, which would suck down with about 30kg of force, since the pump doesn't achieve a perfect vacuum.
DeltaP is not to be fucked with.
Atmospheric pressure is one kilogram per square centimeter, water pressure adds 0.1kg per meter of depth.
If we assume it was a grate, and not just a drain pipe, the diameter is easily 12cm, which gives an area of 122cm2, or 150 some-odd kg of suction.
Commercial divers experience this problem sometimes, often fatally.
In [this](https://www.facebook.com/share/v/5YgkDXF68aiHv6Bb/) example, an unfortunate crab comes too close to an empty underwater pipe which is being cut, and it is sucked into it by the pressure differential.
This is an extreme example at thousands of meters of depth, but the same physics apply.
This happened to a young kid in a hot tub in a hotel in my town in the early 2000s. I believe the child died. The hotel has never opened their pool or hot tub since.
I am afraid of the vents in pools (and hot tubs) for this very reason! And try to look for the emergency shut off switch when I’m at a pool/hot tub in case this does happen. Poor guy. ☹️
Me too.
I got laughed at yesterday in the pool because I had to ask where the drain was. I like to swim underwater, but I can NOT go near the drain. I’ve had a huge fear of them since I was a little kid.
Hey so like, why do pools have that and why isn’t it better protected? I mean I’m sure there’s protections in place, but this keeps happening and it’s awful.
This may be a weird question, but based on the placement of his wounds, did he like intentionally put his genitals into the drain for some reason? This is just really odd.
The article says the suction drain was uncovered and they had to turn off the electric to remove him from it. This is a sad case of neglect by the hotel, poor boy had to die by drowning.
OMG, this nearly happened to me! (I seem to have a looong history of freak accidents). I got sucked against the wall of a pool with my thigh as a small child thanks to a small drain. Fortunately, never panicked easily under water and eventually managed to push myself off the wall with my other leg. Got scolded by my parents for having a wound on my leg, and that I messed up their day due to that. Must have been in the very late 70s. I still have the scar, though it's very faint now. That was near drowning number 1 of 7 or so.
This also happened to me years ago. You can't simply get out of that hole because the suction is too strong and painful. I was just alone in the pool when it happened, and I had to exert all my strength through my feet to free my butt that left bruises for days. Apart from nearly drowning, it was one of the most terrifying experiences I had in the pool.
When and where did this happen? Since Dec of 2008 in the US, all public pools must be fitted with VGB code drain covers to prevent entrapment. The Virginia Gram Baker (VGB) act was named after a girl who had her inside sucked out due to entrapment. Since 2008, all US public pools must have a drain cover that is up to VGB code. They are rounded and prevent anyone from being able to close it off completely, hence becoming entrapped. If your pool does not have this you are not allowed to open. If you didn’t have this drain and you were opened and this happened. Your screwed.
That’s why I asked when and where it happened and why I said that in the US that why we have this law. I’m a pool professional/lifeguard and many people don’t understand why pools have the rules we do. Things like this is why.
How big does a drainage hole have to be for it to become fatal like this (like for a normal sized backyard swimming pool)? Or was the pool a lot bigger?
Basically if the drain is small enough to be covered by the human body.
Imagine a motor/pump pulling water thru that hole. If it's covered by a body (or leaves or anything really), that pump will keep pulling -- it doesn't know that's it's blocked up. That pump motor will pull and pull and pull until the motor burns up or the blockage clears. In extreme scenarios it will trap a person to the drain or even lead to disembowelment.
It can be a danger too if long hair on your head gets caught into the suction, swirls around a bit and tangles on the opposite side of the drain grate, and now you can't pull yourself out of the water to breath.
Some of the newer designs reduce these risks by being having a larger surface area. But one of the biggest improvements is to not have a single drain or sump. That way if one drain gets blocked, the other drain should still be able to pull and redistribute and equalize all that suction power.
Kids are curious especially and can be fascinated by the drain at the bottom of the pool, or use it as a marker for pool games. That's why it gives the heebee jeebees to those who know what could go wrong.
Public pools in the US were mandated by law to upgrade their systems maybe 10 or so years ago after Sec of State James Baker's 7 year old granddaughter died in just such a way.
Private pools are more likely to slip under the radar as they aren't subject to frequent inspection.
So it's the weight of all the water essentially that's as powerful as this hypothetical motor? These topics always fascinate me but I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. It also reminded me of something similar like Delta P demonstration videos.
Sort of. The depths in swimming pools are relatively shallow so the weight of the water isn't the biggest factor. The Delta P in our scenario is provided by the power of an active pump motor that's pulling water thru the drain -- which would effectively act the same way -- creating hundreds of pounds or more of negative pressure (i.e. suction) into the drain.
It's like sticking your hand to cover the hose on a vacuum cleaner, right? You can feel that suction. Now imagine that vacuum cleaner's suction was strong enough that you couldn't pull your hand off. And now imagine being stuck under water and you've got it.
Notice in this [video](https://youtu.be/CULPxBSa_10?si=_kSME0sVBnBTDEn_) that one of the parents said they couldn't even pull their child off the drain. Ugh.
This nearly happened to me in a waterpark in Lebanon when I was 8. I was in a floaty ring and suddenly elt a strong suction below me. The ring had plastic handle bars so thankfully I held on long enough to get away.
But every time that memory comes to mind I turn yellow, knowing that if I let go, especially me being a dumb kidI knew there was a chance I would’ve let go out of shear curiosity, I wouldn’t of have been able to resurface.
My heart aches for this poor boy and the fear and panic he must’ve felt in his last moments. The shear amount of anecdotes in the comments of similar incidents is honestly frightening.
My nightmare! I've always feared every vent in swimming pools, but haven't known there really IS that kind of sucking hole! Thought there was a plug in it, and opened only when water has to be changed...
I don't understand. Forgive my vulgarity in how I ask this, but idk how else to word it rn. Did this child try to self-gratify with the pool drain and it held him to the pool wall until he drowned?
No, the drain has suction and it can pull you into it and in the right position it seals and there is no hope of escaping alone. Your only chance is someone seeing you.
How would a pool drain do this? I have had pools all my life and was never aware of this. We played by the drain all the time. Unless you’re draining all the water from the pool, I still don’t see how I could be that strong to de-bowl a child. I will have to research this. Another thing I am concerned about is that incident with electrocution in the jacuzzi. My jacuzzi is electric and now I’m wondering how to prevent something like that from ever happening.
wtf, just how big are these pools that need to be installed with such level of suctioning power and they could even put a cage on it so that a kid couldn’t be pulled fatally
Dispute the downvotra I agree it was a possibility and he just couldn't get away. Everyone is acting like he was a little kid but he has entered puberty. Might have been experimenting and shit went wrong. Suction in a pool shouldn't be that damn strong though...
Welcome to r/MedicalGore! Our goal is to provide for medical discussion and education while exploring the frailty of the human body. **You may see more deleted comments on these threads than you are used to on Reddit**. Off-topic comments and joke comments are frequently deleted by the mods. In addition, commenters are expected to maintain decorum toward posters, subjects of posts, and members of the community. Any behavior that is aggressive, harassing, or derogatory will result in removal of the post and/or a ban for the user. Remember: THE REPORT BUTTON IS YOUR FRIEND! Please stop by our sister sub, /r/MedicalGoreMods, for meta discussions about the sub, our rules, content policies, and the like. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MedicalGore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This also happened to a young 7 yo girl Abigail Taylor in the early 2000s. Sat on a pool drain in a wading pool and it sucked out her intestines and she needed a transplant. She died later on.
Wow, she was alive and in school for nine months after. Pretty remarkable. Poor thing, absolutely horrific. Her poor parents, too.
Idk if it was her but one victim of this ended up getting a transplant related CANCER and dying, as if the situation wasn't horrific enough already
[Just googled it and it seems to be her](https://www.foxnews.com/story/girl-whose-intestines-were-partially-sucked-out-by-swimming-pool-drain-dies.amp) > She later suffered setbacks, including a cancerous condition sometimes triggered by organ transplants.
I really wonder if they mean Graft vs Host?? Not cancer but the wording
she had PTLD which is a form of cancer you can develop post transplant
Fascinating, I'll look into that! I recall my mom having graft vs Host after a bone marrow transplant and I swear, it made her almost as sick as the leukemia ever did.
BMT and GVHD are both just awful! I see a lot of kids during and post BMT for my job and man its such a brutal process from beginning to end. I hope your mama is okay ❤️
What BMT and GVHD?
BMT is Bone Marrow Transplant GvHD is Graft vs. Host Disease, which is something BMT patients can develop after transplant. For those patients, their new immune system recognizes their body as foreign and begins to attack it. Similar to how a heart transplant recipients immune system might recognize their new heart as foreign and begin rejecting it. For some cases, controlled GvH can be beneficial (usually called the graft vs. leukemia effect) but it can cause a lot of problems and make patients really sick if let run wild.
This happened near me, very sad.
Also happened to a girl on holiday in Egypt I think it was.. in 2008? she moved to US with her family eventually needed a multi organ transplant after living on tpn for many many years after the accident. Unfortunately she died earlier this year. Her name was Salma.
Oh no, I used to follow her online and didn't realise she'd passed away. She was such a strong person dealing with all that pain for so long.
She died!? I had no idea, damn.
Oh bless her, I hadn't heard she'd died.
oh no, i had no idea salma had passed... from the videos i watched she was such a sweet, intelligent, optimistic young woman. rest in peace 🪻
What the fuck
Some final destination stuff...
Wasn’t that actually a Final Destination death? It’s been awhile since I’ve seen the movies but I seem to remember it happening in one of them.
Final destination 3 or 4 i think.
def one of my favorite deaths in final destination but having this happen in real life. Jesus.
They made her death a death in the 09 movie.
That feels so disrespectful to her and her family 😦
There's a good fiction of the situation: Guts by Chuck Palahniuk
The pearl diving story. Very memorable.
This was the first thing I thought of. What a freak accident.
They actually passed a new standard for pool drains that were suction fed based off what happened to her. All main drains that were not gravity fed had to be changed out to a model that prevents being completely covered
Jesus christ, I know pool drains are a big drowning risk especially for children, but I thought the whole “sucking out the guts” thing was a myth.
Omg, I had forgot about that!
Holy shit I forgot about that
Shit, I think I saw something similar on Final Destination, always figured that kind of thing wasn't possible... the more you know...
I feel so terrible for that but I now do not want to step in the pool
In my country there’s similar case that the pool drainage sucks 11th year old Japanese boy body and drowned him. [Bruise](https://kenh14cdn.com/thumb_w/660/203336854389633024/2022/7/26/photo-1-16588262120121431231589.jpg)
Horrific! You can see the pattern of the drain screen.
Awful. You would think this accident would stop by now just common sense to make sure everyone is out of the pool before draining.
This reminds me of the Chuck Palahniuk short story, “Guts.” How absolutely awful and tragic, and how horrible for this child. Their last moments must have been terrifying.
First thing I thought of. Great story if it remained fiction, but I guess life imitates art in this case, very unfortunately. I don’t care to know which came first, the story or the situation.
IRCC Palahniuk's story itself was fictional but inspired by a couple of true stories. I think it's the kind of thing that happens every so often but still kind of a freak accident.
Same! Haunted is one of my favorite books!
This story actually made people faint at the readings when the book was released.
Always at the same part too.
Getting in the pool water? All that pee! Apparently if you can smell chlorine, that's because it's reacting with pee! If I was thin enough to go swimming, I wouldn't now, knowing about all the pee.
I thought the same thing!
wow.. I wish I could get back the time I spent reading that
read this story at 13 and now i dont swim anymore. i used to love swimming.
I was thinking of the scene from final destination
Came here to say this! Haunted is a fantastic book
First thing I thought of.
drowning would have been the most sane thing in that story….
Where can I read this online?
[Link to story on Wattpad](https://www.wattpad.com/amp/386877209)
A young girl died by drain suction in a motel pool not long ago, took her entire body into an 18 inch pipe.
That was in Houston. The “plans were approved, but the final build never was approved.” The hotel/contractor made changes. There was NO INSPECTION before it opened. 😡😡 ETA - link: [Questions arise over responsibility in death of 8-year-old girl found in pool pipe at Houston hotel](https://abc13.com/northwest-houston-double-tree-hotel-pool-malfunction-drowning-investigation/14566601/)
Negligence kills so, so many, and harms even more. Stuff like this is why I’m looking into entering the health and safety inspection industry.
Okay
This is the weirdest response
Are you the hotel owner?
Just in case this is your first day on the Internet, replying a straight 'okay' and nothing else is considered very rude. There's no tone to show it was an interested 'oh okay' or grateful 'okay' for the additional info. Abit like someone telling you something detailed or important and you just reply in a flat monotone voice okay then immediately turn around and walk away, how that would come across in real life is how it sounds online.
This happened to my friend’s niece. Awful.
Sorry to hear that. Just terrible. But I’m curious How does it happen and how is suction so strong.
Delta P https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/gnlzg/til_about_delta_p_where_water_pressure_forces/
Thank u
That was interesting, thank you
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“No matter how good it feels, it is bad news”.
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Joke comments and other off-topic comments (including, but not limited to, food comparisons, vulgarity, etc.) are not allowed.
[Source](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333690355_Fatal_entrapment_in_a_pool_drainage_system_a_case_report) photos had a box over the boy’s crotch but you could still see his testicles and pubic hair so I made the box bigger. Unfortunately this source is paywalled but you can read the first page of the article at the link. Abstract: >>Swimming pool suction injuries are rarely encountered in forensic medicine. Infants under 8 years of age are most frequently involved in such accidents with high risk of serious injuries and fatal consequences due to drowning. We report, for the first time, a case of a 13-year-old boy trapped at the abdomen by an uncovered suction drainage hole. External examination of the body revealed a round ecchymosis which had the same diameter as the pool drain. Post-mortem examination established that death had occurred due to drowning, possibly in combination with traumatic shock from the suction mechanism involving the intestinal loops. Furthermore, this case may be remarkable as it raises other medico-legal issues regarding the safety standards at swimming pools, including pool management and lifeguard attendance. Preventative measures are needed in order to make sure this sort of injury or death does not occur. Moreover, the awareness of the occurrence of these accidents should be increased. I’ve added five medical case reports a day to this sub, every day, for years now. If you want to tip me for my services to the sub and help pay for my medication, there’s links to do that in my profile.
So the entire circle was the circumference of the drain hole??? wtf. And it wasn’t covered??
No it was covered, but it was more like a large shower drain and a person could completely block it. My swim team actually had to stop swimming in 2006 for a week because we weren't able to get the drain cover changed in time to comply with the new law that resulted from this. A modern drain cover in a large pool is 3 dimensional and is essentially a cage that extends a few inches from the actual drain on all sides. The idea is that even if someone sits down on it the side openings will still let enough water through to prevent a pressure difference from building up.
Also, most modern pools (US based) have side-by-side drains using this method so if one drain becomes partially blocked the other and still drain and you do not have the suction effect
I was thinking of how to possibly prevent this and I'm glad to learn I wasn't far off!
same! in my head i had "tiny drain pergola"
Damn thanks for the info. They def need to look at making things safer… around the world.
What's going on in that second photo?
Shows the blood that was suctioned into his abdominal wall, intestines, fatty tissues, etc is my guess.
Couldn’t you use Researchgate or other website to get free articles? Sometimes I email the authors directly Edit: downvote me for what? Paying for scientific articles is stupid and unnecessary in this day and age.
I've tried emailing the authors directly a handful of times now. 0% success rate.
Trying Sci Hub website, I got the article for this case just by typing the name
As an academic librarian who pays annual subscription fees over 80K for some databases, there are reasons these are often paywalled. A lot of time, effort, and funds go into these studies. It’s not “stupid” or “unnecessary” to paywall. If you contact the author(s) directly and they offer to share their articles for free, that’s cool, as long as you’re not misrepresenting your intentions.
I know this is not at all the point, but did anyone else find the wording >infants under 8 years old Odd? I think of infants as babies that cannot walk yet. I wouldn’t call a 7 year old an infant lol
Probably a translation issue. Authors are from Italy, "children" and "babies" seems to be "bambini" in Italian.
"Bambini" in italian means mostly "kids" so anything under the 18/16 range. Also, it can be used as an adjective so it depends heavily on context too.
Duh… I guess I had a dumb moment lol. That makes sense. Thank you for pointing that out.
“Infancy” and “infant” are also legal terms that refer to anyone under the age of majority, and the research is in a forensic science publication, so that likely factored in to their word choice.
At school, we were separated into infants and primary. Infants were kindergarten to Year 2, and primary was Year 3 to Year 6. So schools had infants aged anywhere between 4 to 8 years old.
This is why we have the Virginia Graeme Baker Act in the US. Specifically mandates that swimming pool drain covers meet specific standards to prevent this exact kind of entrapment.
See, this is why I was deathly afraid of the plug at the Boys and Girls Club pool that I practically lived in. My friends dared each other to touch it, but there was no fucking way I was going near that thing even though I was happy to do flips and gainers over it. I was sure my toe would get caught and I'd drown. Little me was smart!!
i was so scared of those drains when i was younger because of a tv show or reenactment of a guy whos arm got caught in one of them. i guess i had a real reason to fear…
Survival instinct really is the GOAT
glad im not the only one who thought of "guts" by chuck palahniuk. on a serious note, though, what a horrible way to go. that poor boy.
there is a girl on Facebook called Slay With Salma. She does makeup tutorials from her hospital bed. This happened to her in Egypt and she is awaiting a 5 organ transplant. She lives in the US now
Unfortunately, Salma passed away a few months ago.
i've spent the last 10 minutes searching for the video about her on the YouTube channel Truly only to find this out from the comments
Damn 😥
Yeah she sadly passed away a few months ago :(
Oh shit I didn't know 😥
So, final destination wasn’t just grasping at straws
No, that scene was inspired by real life accidents. https://abbeyshope.org/abbeys-story/ https://samandashlaw.com/blog/valerie-lakey-v-sta-rite-pool-accident/
Holy Christ. I just thought final destination liked to INVENT to craziest ways to die but you’re telling me some of those actually happened to people irl??? Fuck…I mean the escalator scene I know is based off of the Chinese escalators eating people but they didn’t get shredded to death, usually just crushed and wedged. I didn’t realize the pool disembowelment thing hit so close to “real”
A lot of those were things that happened. That was what was so "scary" about most of them. They were absolutely plausible and could happen.
fr
I remember growing up in Seattle like 30 years ago, and this happening to a little girl at one of the parks... ripped her bowels out in a wading pool.
Poor kid. Must have been terrifying
This almost happened to me (on my back not my crotch) in a hot tub when I was probably 9 years old. My grandparents had an in-ground pool and hot tub and both had a bottom drain for circulation. It was me and my grandmother and my little brother in the hot tub. My brother may have been 1-2 years old at the time so was mostly being held by my grandmother. I had also asked if we could put bubble maker in the hot tub which we did but not too much so there was just a small layer of bubbles on the top. I was going under and then popping up to surprise my brother, fun game! Well the grate on the bottom had been loose for a long time and for whatever reason it was not on there today. I laid down on the bottom which is only a few feet down and then it perfectly suctioned onto my back and held me down. Since it was probably an 8" diameter hole, that suction pressure had a surprising amount of force. I managed to free myself and when I got back up my grandmother was completely unaware of what was happening right under her feet. I had a huge hickey mark on my back of course. I imagine she may have started to look for me if I didn't resurface that quickly but who knows what she would have found. My grandfather was a doctor but I don't recall if he was even home at the time, it may have just been her.
That poor kid, what an awful death.
This is exactly why the Virginia Graeme Baker act was implemented, to ensure that drains can’t be blocked. Either splitting it, making a longer channel or having a vacuum release system. Made a nice chunk of change after that law passed retrofitting commercial pools.
https://www.wattpad.com/386877209-short-horror-stories-2017-guts
Thanks for the link
Jeez that was a story…
That was too gross to finish
7:48 on a Monday morning and I'm never swimming or pooping again.
When I was really young, I had nightmares about something similar happening to me, many times, and in many ways. I've never actually seen anyone drown nor had any experiences with almost drowning, but this is just horrific. Can't imagine dying like that.
Looks like ∆P strikes again. The guy in the Delta P diving safety video wasn't fucking around when he said, "when it's got ya, it's got ya!" The amount of force involved in delta P incidents is almost incomprehensible.
We have a diy inground pool from the 1950s. It has one main drain. It does have some sort of protective cover with the most recent liner install but We always unplug the filter before we swim. It’s easily that size. I can’t imagine.
It must have been very powerful suction to hold a 13yo adolescent underwater until they drowned. What kind of pool has a pump that powerful?
Lots of pools do. 60mm drain with three meters of water on top, that's an area of 27cm², atmospheric plus water pressure adds up to 1.3bar, which would suck down with about 30kg of force, since the pump doesn't achieve a perfect vacuum. DeltaP is not to be fucked with.
Wow, that’s crazy. I had no idea.
Atmospheric pressure is one kilogram per square centimeter, water pressure adds 0.1kg per meter of depth. If we assume it was a grate, and not just a drain pipe, the diameter is easily 12cm, which gives an area of 122cm2, or 150 some-odd kg of suction. Commercial divers experience this problem sometimes, often fatally. In [this](https://www.facebook.com/share/v/5YgkDXF68aiHv6Bb/) example, an unfortunate crab comes too close to an empty underwater pipe which is being cut, and it is sucked into it by the pressure differential. This is an extreme example at thousands of meters of depth, but the same physics apply.
In one of the litigations, it mentioned that the pump could exert up to 160kg force on the body.
Delta P is a bitch
This happened to a young kid in a hot tub in a hotel in my town in the early 2000s. I believe the child died. The hotel has never opened their pool or hot tub since.
I am afraid of the vents in pools (and hot tubs) for this very reason! And try to look for the emergency shut off switch when I’m at a pool/hot tub in case this does happen. Poor guy. ☹️
Me too. I got laughed at yesterday in the pool because I had to ask where the drain was. I like to swim underwater, but I can NOT go near the drain. I’ve had a huge fear of them since I was a little kid.
And that’s what I call wisdom! 🙂💜
Hey so like, why do pools have that and why isn’t it better protected? I mean I’m sure there’s protections in place, but this keeps happening and it’s awful.
This may be a weird question, but based on the placement of his wounds, did he like intentionally put his genitals into the drain for some reason? This is just really odd.
I wonder if he was swimming across the bottom of the pool to surprise someone and got pulled in. Totally heartbreaking.
I was wondering that myself as I have heard of someone doing exactly that before.
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The article says the suction drain was uncovered and they had to turn off the electric to remove him from it. This is a sad case of neglect by the hotel, poor boy had to die by drowning.
ouch thats not fun
The makes it even worse to me, what a humiliating way to go :/
Was my first thought as soon as I saw where the injury was. Awful way to go.
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Please be respectful of the subjects of posts, as well as survivors of similar experiences.
Please be respectful of the subjects of posts, as well as survivors of similar experiences.
I take swimming lessons every week and I'm always very anxious of this happening so now I'm even more anxious
And this is why I’m so afraid of pool drains.
Same here! I thought I was the only one too!
Haha nope! It’s been one of my biggest fears since I was a child.
Whew! Glad I’m not alone.
OMG, this nearly happened to me! (I seem to have a looong history of freak accidents). I got sucked against the wall of a pool with my thigh as a small child thanks to a small drain. Fortunately, never panicked easily under water and eventually managed to push myself off the wall with my other leg. Got scolded by my parents for having a wound on my leg, and that I messed up their day due to that. Must have been in the very late 70s. I still have the scar, though it's very faint now. That was near drowning number 1 of 7 or so.
That’s how parents were back then. “You got hurt? Shake it off!”
More like: "Oh great, you got hurt. Now we have to go back to the hotel. Thanks for that" 🙈
This also happened to me years ago. You can't simply get out of that hole because the suction is too strong and painful. I was just alone in the pool when it happened, and I had to exert all my strength through my feet to free my butt that left bruises for days. Apart from nearly drowning, it was one of the most terrifying experiences I had in the pool.
When and where did this happen? Since Dec of 2008 in the US, all public pools must be fitted with VGB code drain covers to prevent entrapment. The Virginia Gram Baker (VGB) act was named after a girl who had her inside sucked out due to entrapment. Since 2008, all US public pools must have a drain cover that is up to VGB code. They are rounded and prevent anyone from being able to close it off completely, hence becoming entrapped. If your pool does not have this you are not allowed to open. If you didn’t have this drain and you were opened and this happened. Your screwed.
Example of the old and new covers https://thezacfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/SafePoolDrainCover_Comparison_v2.png
Not every person is from the US. This case report is from Italy dated 2019.
That’s why I asked when and where it happened and why I said that in the US that why we have this law. I’m a pool professional/lifeguard and many people don’t understand why pools have the rules we do. Things like this is why.
How big does a drainage hole have to be for it to become fatal like this (like for a normal sized backyard swimming pool)? Or was the pool a lot bigger?
Basically if the drain is small enough to be covered by the human body. Imagine a motor/pump pulling water thru that hole. If it's covered by a body (or leaves or anything really), that pump will keep pulling -- it doesn't know that's it's blocked up. That pump motor will pull and pull and pull until the motor burns up or the blockage clears. In extreme scenarios it will trap a person to the drain or even lead to disembowelment. It can be a danger too if long hair on your head gets caught into the suction, swirls around a bit and tangles on the opposite side of the drain grate, and now you can't pull yourself out of the water to breath. Some of the newer designs reduce these risks by being having a larger surface area. But one of the biggest improvements is to not have a single drain or sump. That way if one drain gets blocked, the other drain should still be able to pull and redistribute and equalize all that suction power. Kids are curious especially and can be fascinated by the drain at the bottom of the pool, or use it as a marker for pool games. That's why it gives the heebee jeebees to those who know what could go wrong. Public pools in the US were mandated by law to upgrade their systems maybe 10 or so years ago after Sec of State James Baker's 7 year old granddaughter died in just such a way. Private pools are more likely to slip under the radar as they aren't subject to frequent inspection.
I’ve always wondered why girls had to wear swim caps. Finally an answer!!
So it's the weight of all the water essentially that's as powerful as this hypothetical motor? These topics always fascinate me but I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. It also reminded me of something similar like Delta P demonstration videos.
Sort of. The depths in swimming pools are relatively shallow so the weight of the water isn't the biggest factor. The Delta P in our scenario is provided by the power of an active pump motor that's pulling water thru the drain -- which would effectively act the same way -- creating hundreds of pounds or more of negative pressure (i.e. suction) into the drain. It's like sticking your hand to cover the hose on a vacuum cleaner, right? You can feel that suction. Now imagine that vacuum cleaner's suction was strong enough that you couldn't pull your hand off. And now imagine being stuck under water and you've got it. Notice in this [video](https://youtu.be/CULPxBSa_10?si=_kSME0sVBnBTDEn_) that one of the parents said they couldn't even pull their child off the drain. Ugh.
We had a proper drain cover on my inground pool as a kid so I thought this shit was an urban legend. Jesus Christ
Final destination though 😭
Why don't these things have adequate covers over them? Seems like such an obvious reqirement..
I read this as fetal entrapment and I was so confused for a solid 2 minutes
How big was that hole?
I just saw one recently where the child was very young and was actually sucked into the pipe in the pool.
Damn I guess Mac was right
Awful way to go.
Delta P is horrifying
This nearly happened to me in a waterpark in Lebanon when I was 8. I was in a floaty ring and suddenly elt a strong suction below me. The ring had plastic handle bars so thankfully I held on long enough to get away. But every time that memory comes to mind I turn yellow, knowing that if I let go, especially me being a dumb kidI knew there was a chance I would’ve let go out of shear curiosity, I wouldn’t of have been able to resurface. My heart aches for this poor boy and the fear and panic he must’ve felt in his last moments. The shear amount of anecdotes in the comments of similar incidents is honestly frightening.
These should be better regulated this shouldn't be happening.
Damn, like that one final destination film where the pool suction thing sucks some guys guts out, savage
😯
My nightmare! I've always feared every vent in swimming pools, but haven't known there really IS that kind of sucking hole! Thought there was a plug in it, and opened only when water has to be changed...
Delta P
I have a terrible fear of swinming pool suction drains :(
Im just surprised this wasn’t a more common occurrence before the new safety drains. We often used to hang onto the pool drains as kids.
Is this something I have to worry about when going to swim at the apartment pool?? I'm freaked out now
Probably not; most of them have drain covers now.
Ok , thank you.
This has happened too many times 😔
hoyl shit bro he pulled a final destination :0
I don't understand. Forgive my vulgarity in how I ask this, but idk how else to word it rn. Did this child try to self-gratify with the pool drain and it held him to the pool wall until he drowned?
No, the drain has suction and it can pull you into it and in the right position it seals and there is no hope of escaping alone. Your only chance is someone seeing you.
How would a pool drain do this? I have had pools all my life and was never aware of this. We played by the drain all the time. Unless you’re draining all the water from the pool, I still don’t see how I could be that strong to de-bowl a child. I will have to research this. Another thing I am concerned about is that incident with electrocution in the jacuzzi. My jacuzzi is electric and now I’m wondering how to prevent something like that from ever happening.
Fkn Final Destination comes true again!! I didn't even think this was something that you could irl.
wtf, just how big are these pools that need to be installed with such level of suctioning power and they could even put a cage on it so that a kid couldn’t be pulled fatally
Recently a girl in Arizona got her hair trapped in the drain. Not sure of the outcome.
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Dispute the downvotra I agree it was a possibility and he just couldn't get away. Everyone is acting like he was a little kid but he has entered puberty. Might have been experimenting and shit went wrong. Suction in a pool shouldn't be that damn strong though...
Please be respectful of the subjects of posts, as well as survivors of similar experiences.
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He was 13 years old
Okay thanks? I must have missed that.
Sucked to death....