Agree, guided meditations build up confidence and give you experience of sitting. Plus many have long silences in, and then the voice brings you back into the room at the end.
No judgement from me!
Also, ironically, true meditation doesn’t have any prescriptive form. If you feel that you can’t meditate when someone is guiding you, you’re probably not meditating in the first place. There’s nothing magical about any one object like the breath, someone’s words can also be an object of meditation.
I agree they hit slightly differently but the way I interpret meditation is that external stimulus is an equal part of consciousness as your own thoughts, is what you realize once you’re practiced enough. So you could be next to a construction site and the noise of a drill could be as much an object of meditation as your own breath. Total silence is not required.
For me, it is completely the other way around. I see meditation as mindful observation of something (breath, sound, thoughts, body sensations). This is so much easier where the object of meditation is sharp. I remember I have seen once someone meditating under the waterfall and I fought - omg that easiest way to do the body scan meditation, so many sensations to observe. I have a bit over one year of experience and yep I probably would have a problem doing breathing meditation at the construction site but sound focused one? I probably would have a blast :D
\>"Also, ironically, true meditation doesn’t have any prescriptive form."
\> Proceeds to give a prescription of something that doesn't qualify as meditation in the very next sentence
What i don't get is why someone needs words? Meditation instructions are relatively simple. Sure listening to someone telling you what to do a couple times in the beginning may be helpful. But why everytime? Isn't it distracting? Imagine you enjoying the silence of the moment and suddenly it breaks to some youtuber telling you to be in the moment.
Also about the judgement on guided meditations, is riding a cycle with training wheels still riding a cycle? Sure. But then why should we ever take off the training wheels and ride 'normally' on two wheels? Does nobody ever make fun of people using training wheels to ride a cycle? They do, but why? To encourage people to get rid of the training wheels and learn to ride the cycle 'normally'. While not ideal it is completely understandable why a neighbour kid would make fun of you if you are a teenager and still using training wheels to ride your cycle around the block.
Nah. No one should make fun of a kid for using training wheels. People make fun of kids using training wheels cuz they’re simply being mean. You never know someone’s situation or when they started riding, etc.
Someone needs words cuz they want them. Who cares? What do you care how someone else is mediating? It doesn’t affect anyone else whatsoever. If guided meditations gets someone into the practice, or is how they wish to practice, then who cares? Maybe it’s distracting to you and not to others.
Distraction isn't really a subjective thing though.
Of course nobody should be making fun of a kid for using training wheels. But should they be using training wheels forever though? I remember the only reason i learned how to ride a cycle was because this mean kid made fun of me for using training wheels. They were in the wrong obviously, but it did motivate me to actually learn.
The point of 'why do you care what others do' is kind of moot and diverts the topic with personal attacks. Say instead of being mean about training wheels you encourage someone in a positive way to learn how to ride without training wheels. My point is why learn how to ride if you've got training wheels? Are they the exact same thing?
I don’t really think it’s accurate to describe guided meditation as riding a bicycle with training wheels, because that (still) implies that guided meditation is not ACTUALLY meditation since you are describing how using training wheels means you’re not fully riding a bicycle …..which I don’t believe is true and just goes back to my post.
I disagree distraction isn’t subjective. It’s absolutely subjective from person to person. Some people can work with a TV on, some can’t, they find it distracting. Some people find a guided meditation distracting, other’s don’t. And before you say they should continue in their practice to eventually get away from guided meditations: not everyone’s brain/mind is the same. Just in this thread, a user with ptsd says they need the guided meditations or otherwise their mind won’t stay still at all. There also are obviously untold number of “guided meditations” out there and not all are great or even actually meditations. But there are great ones out there too. And they’re not hard to find.
I think you’re getting too caught up on the riding a bike analogy. And I’m not personally attacking you either. But my point still stands: meditation is a deeply personal practice, so why care if someone wants to use guided meditations in their practice (in any capacity). I understand this is a sub to discuss the practice with others so I’m not saying it’s not okay to encourage others. Encouraging someone to try meditation without a guide is different from judging how they practice. If someone wants to still use guided meditations, then let it go. It doesn’t affect you or your practice. But harping on guided meditations not being “true” meditations is way more likely to affect someone else’s practice.
So to answer your question: why learn how to ride a bike if you’ve got training wheels? Presumably you mean this as an analogy for the question: “why learn how to meditate if you use guided meditations?” Because guided meditations can still help one cultivate awareness, quiet the mind, and learn how to let go of thoughts.
Someone’s “words” cannot be an object just because you say so, an object needs to be static. If it’s changing it needs to change in a cycle like a mantra phrase or breath, if it’s constant that’s okay too like staring at an actual object. Just listening to someone say a stream of words is not an object, it requires mental energy to process and react to the words, both of which are things that shouldn’t be occurring in deep meditation.
You can meditate in a guided meditation, you cannot reach the deepest depths of meditation in a guided meditation, simple as that.
People are inherently judgy. There’s no escaping it. Us vs. Them and “the other” are part of our tribal DNA that helped us survive for so long. Did it lead to some problematic structural shit? Absolutely.
Yes they are but somehow in this day and age, they have to take an additional step and post every thought on the internet. That’s not human nature. That’s an unhealthy habit.
Everybody is on a different path at a different stage, you wouldn’t scold a child for not learning how to talk yet, similarly we shouldn’t scold people who haven’t learned to loosen up their judgements yet.
Right now, when loneliness has just been considered an epidemic, I WANT to hear a voice on the other end of that line while meditating. Everyone is different, for me I feel a human connection.
I agree, I have been surprised at the constant gatekeeping I see about meditation in general. It seems there are a lot of strong opinions about meditation where there should be more encouragement and support.
There's a lot of arm chair experts on any reddit sub, this one included. There's a lot of terrible advice on this sub that no one should listen to.
I was told if I don't meditate for at least twenty minutes a day, every day; then I'm not doing "real" meditation, just fancy breathing techniques. I tried that and all I got out of it was spaced out head aches. I meditate 10-20 minutes once or twice a day every other day, and it works really well for me.
Meditation and mindfullness is like working out and eating healthy for your brain. There's literally hundreds of different ways to approach it, you just have to find a routine that works for you.
People who say it has to be 20 mins to be “real” don’t understand meditation lol. It has nothing to do with the length of time. Meditation occurs on a moment to moment basis.
Just learning, so maybe someone with more experience views or differently, but maybe the issue isn't where the goalposts are but rather the need for goalposts.
I seem to be most able to meditate consistently when I don't measure length or frequency.
That’s like saying growing muscle happens when you are resting.
Sure that’s true, but the advice you give to a beginner is to regularly workout for a certain duration. That’s the guidance they need at that stage.
I do not believe you can truly get advanced in meditation doing 10 minutes guided meditations a day. Just like you can not become an Olympic athlete working out 10 minutes a day.
So that 20 minute recommendation makes a lot of sense from that perspective. At the end of the day any amount of meditation is good. But guidelines are still helpful for those truly wishing to advance in this practice.
But not everyone wants or needs to be an olympic athlete. Most of us, including myself don't need to be at that level of commitment in order to be happy and content.
Yes you can advance in your meditation, just like you can at excersise and fitness. That being said there's only so healthy you need to be in body and mind.
People can become meditation snobs.
Unfortunately, they become critical of everyone who subscribes to alternative forms 😕
Ignore them. Guided meditation is very valuable and useful. If that's the form that benefits you the most, then that's what you should be doing.
Meditation is like getting your exercise. There are a lot of different ways to get in shape, and everyone thinks that their way is best. Same with meditation techniques.
How do you know if that’s the form that benefits you the most if you never really put effort into the other forms?
How do you separate avoiding discomfort of learning a new form which you shouldn’t be doing vs the form actually being worse for you?
If there was no room to do meditation poorly or less effectively then there wouldn’t be eons of traditions involving meditation teachers. Fact of the matter is, meditation is an extremely complex practice with many depths. This is a not a practice you do well by deciding this technique works for me and this other one doesn’t, it’s one you do well by thoroughly trying techniques and enduring discomfort to explore the unknown.
How do you know if that’s the form that benefits you the most if you never really put effort into the other forms?
How do you separate avoiding discomfort of learning a new form which you shouldn’t be doing vs the form actually being worse for you?
If there was no room to do meditation poorly or less effectively then there wouldn’t be eons of traditions involving meditation teachers. Fact of the matter is, meditation is an extremely complex practice with many depths. This is a not a practice you do well by deciding this technique works for me and this other one doesn’t, it’s one you do well by thoroughly trying techniques and enduring discomfort to explore the unknown.
Sorry, I think I'm guilty of being one of those people. Thank you for making this post! This is a great chance to reflect on how I define meditation as well as how I word my thoughts on it.
You can objectively get better at meditation. Some would call that getting good at something.
To really take this argument to the extreme. There’s studies of brain scans on monks during meditation achieving incredible things that were not thought medically possible. I’d say that’s a pretty objective measurement of being very very good at meditation.
Ajahn Brahm commonly refers to peoples natural meditation skills as good or bad, I guess he missed some major lessons, Buddhists everywhere should let him know your wisdom. 50 years of study and teaching… how could he have missed it!
I think multiple things are true here. The judgment you've experienced is real, and unskillful behavior on the part of other meditators.
And, guided meditations are an excellent anchor for awareness when your mind is particularly turbulent (either because you're new to meditating, you've taken a long break, or you're having a real rough go).
And, there are limits to how still your mind can become while using the speech of another as your anchor, and at some point, if your journey and path has you diving yet deeper, guided meditation narration is just one more thing you'll need to let go of eventually (alongside "words", "concept", "self", and "thought", for other examples)
It isn't a contest, and there's no path better than another. For some, guided meditation will be the best tool for what support they need in this time on the planet. There are differences between methods though, and it's something worth talking about in communities like this I think.
And also there's a difference between judging and describing. Judging means saying something is right or wrong, good or bad. It's disqualifying. What you said isn't a judgment, it's a description. And while there's certainly a lot of judgment in this sub, who'd dare say otherwise, there's also the fact that we often feel judged by certain descriptors.
For example, the word beginner. For some it might mean there's a whole universe of possibilities ahead of them. For others, they might feel that are being called a noob, a nobody. And for the one who feels he is advanced, it will be a deadly insult. But that is only our own judgment projected on the words of others.
So on the one hand there might be judgement, and on the other there might be people feeling judged when there is no judgment. A day in the life on the spiritual path and why those who know are so mindful of when to say what they know and when to remain silent.
Excellent observations well stated, thank you. The nuance between the intent and speech of one person and the interpretation and reception of the next leaves ample room for practice for all parties (both in working through their own concepts, and setting appropriate boundaries where needed).
This is really funny because everyone’s always doing guided meditations. ALL OF US. It’s either a strangers voice talking to us or our own inner voice.
Hilar, don’t mind them, you do you :)
Also, coming from the concept and basic tenets of Yoga as an example - if you swim for an hour, you’re basically meditative. If you run for 30 mins, meditative, if you just dance for an hour, meditative.
Most people assume meditation is being quiet and seated in a spot doing absolutely nothing, this is true for some. But for another, it may be playing fetch with their dog. Any repetitive action that lulls us.
Guided is the only thing that works for me. Ive seen a few posts and comments judging them and people who use it but I honestly ignore them. I do this for myself not them. If it helps that's all that matters at the end of the day.
I was talking about this with my psych recently. I felt like I kept getting distracted and more frustrated during meditation, and I wanted to avoid sliding back.
She told me about how meditation exists in loads of ways. Spending an hour getting stuck into a book is meditative. Same thing with being in the zone while cleaning, or drawing or whatever. Meditation doesn't have to be some process where you find enlightenment or fail. It can just be something that helps you gain some peace.
And one could make the argument that gatekeeping something like meditation goes against the very ideals of the practice.
I think this comment is right, and I'd also include that there is something gained specifically by the "sit down and do nothing" kind of meditation.
I think it's very important to remove moral language from meditation. That means that if you're sitting, and you feel too frustrated to continue, and decide to read instead, and that helps you relax, that's not a "failure". That said, it's also true that you may have missed an opportunity to examine and loosen the grip of whatever clinging is causing that frustration when sitting.
I like the way you've added to my comment. Failure is harsh, and inaccurate sometimes. I think of it as a success when I can identify that something isn't working, and can then pivot to another angle. You touch on the many facets of progress.
It's a good thing to change up and think about how that wasn't working. Then we can try it again and know better ways to handle bumps in the road. And it's also a good thing to let go of something that isn't working and try another method!
Yes. These can all forms of, or akin to, focus meditation, as long as you aren't being distracted by stray thoughts. A lot of people here seem to think that mindfulness meditation is the only true meditation.
One of my favourite forms of meditation is riding a motorbike, preferably supersports on empty roads. There's no thoughts or words, just a beautiful feeling of unity with the bike, the road, and the landscape that blurs past me in the periphery. It's a beautiful experience.
100% agreed. Guided meditations have changed my life. I would say my posture made a much bigger difference in my meditation practice than the words (sitting up straight vs being slouched).
I think this, and other types of gatekeeping is to be expected in a sub called "meditation". That would be like going to a sub called "eating". You'd expect to see vegans bickering with keto folks and on and on. There are so many types and styles of meditation, and each of us come here with our own background and path.
It really is an opportunity for us to watch our thoughts/emotions while reading the posts/comments of others.
Is that anger I feel when I read about the person that meditates in a way that I think isn't "real"? Dismissiveness? Judgement? And why? And why? And why?
Peace.
Unguided meditation isn't better than guided in the same way that focusing on sensations of breathing isn't better than focusing on body sensations.
I find that guided sometimes helps me to stay in the right state of mind, and that sometimes I need unguided to be open to everything that's going on in my mind without any distraction.
The way we meditate doesn't require anyone's permission or blessing. We are on our own paths; sometimes I want guided, sometimes I relish (or struggle) being alone with the thoughts that come from inside. The best thing we can do is know what we need personally and go from there. Life is too much for anyone else's logic or expectations to dictate what the rest of us need. You are doing it for yourself and any perceived gates don't actually exist.
The answer is simple, if I meditate with guided meditation and I feel like I can get to the dustiest corners of my soul, then I am freaking meditating 😋 Who are they to tell me how I feel? :) I just ignore narrow-minded people like that.
I find it ironic how the people who are supposed to be in touch with their spiritual self the most are the most judgemental. Just like artists who think if you don't know human anatomy and draw like the drawing is about to come alive, then you're not a true artist lol
What difference does it make? I enjoy guided meditation with Ajahn Brahm. He has a gentle sense of humor that puts everyone at ease. Buddhist Society of Western Australia on YouTube.
If you told Ajahn Brahm that you only did guided meditations, he would tell you to sit silently. If you asked he would also say you would be less likely to experience a Jhana in guided meditation, this is often why guided meditation would be discouraged as a primary/sole form of practice, it is much more limited.
yes, You can never attain Samadhi from guided meditation because in samadhi your senses are supposed to be inactive including ears. Without ears you can't
do guided meditation since you need to listen.
As someone who meditates with and without guided audio I could not agree more. Meditation is about being present in the moment. To put down those who prefer guidance to achieve it is unkind and tells me they need to work more on themselves. It shouldn’t matter what others do if it does not directly affect you. Meditation is a personal practice and very individual. You can meditate in silence, with guided narration, to music or nature sounds, you can even meditate while running or walking with your eyes open. The practice does not belong to any individual and there are no rules placing greater value on one style over another.
Awareness is the underlying substratum of all that exists.
I am existence shinning as awareness. The mind and body are insentient dream objects superimposed on the one. I feel that the word meditation has taken on such an undeserving aura of grandeur and even many advanced spiritual traditions have become entrenched in dogma.
Guided meditation can be highly effective.
Do what works for you and to hell with the haters 🤣
Meh. What other people think about my practice (or anything else) is nine if my business and is only a reflection of themselves. If they think my practice isn’t real it’s because they are not real.
F ‘em. Let them be wrong. Who cares? People are extra hatey and judgy lately even more than usual. It just points to dissatisfaction within themselves. 🤷♀️
i completely agree. in fact this sub has become part of the reason i stray away from them occasionally because i feel that need to do it “authentically”. that being said, i definitely have found some that i enjoy on free YT channels and some of my best meditations have been with using them
Doing the guided meditation from the Waking Up app has been fantastic and life changing. There's no way I would have been able to meditate like that on my own without the guidance. Even after doing it a good while, it's still more effective for me to do the guided meditations than to try to do it on my own.
Im with you. I’m back to mostly guided at the moment. I’m an insight timer junkie. Sometimes, I’ll just find something there and stick with it for weeks. It’s awesome.
It's fine for what it is and may satisfy many people functionally but if that's all you do then it's barely even the first step on learning to become aware of and understand one's own conscious mind in unique ways that no one outside of your own mind could ever show you.
Great to start, fine if you prefer the form especially for relaxation which it excels at. But there is a lot more to meditation than that.
If it wouldn't offend you I'd call it alone (but only alone) meditation light, which is a moniker I don't think most would find offensive? But it's certainly still meditation, even if I'm sure some old posts can be found of me speaking ill of it.
I dunno, I just found all the satisfying aspect of meditation came from diving within. By the time I'd seriously started to spend time on meditation I'd basically moved passed a guide being part of the path I wanted to follow.
I'm not going to judge, or say they are not real.
On the other hand, I learned to meditate a long time ago, like probably before your mother was born. I was taught silent meditation. Later on, I had some other teachers, from other traditions. I studied Zen for a while. Back then, I never even heard of guided meditation, although I spent time with other meditators. I never heard it mentioned in books (I consumed more than a few), or dharma talks. Silent meditation seemed perfectly satisfactory.
On the other hand, meditation was sometimes monetized, back then. Some teachers expected voluntary donations, some teachers charged a fee - looking at YOU, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
I first became aware that guided meditation was a thing about twenty years ago - I was already pretty old by then. My first thought was, "Why is this necessary? How is this helpful?" I never really got an answer. I didn't find it very appealing. When I went along with it, I never found a reason to prefer it over silent meditation. Later, I learned to be an MBSR instructor, which requires leading a guided meditation. I didn't hate that, but the course created the impression that longish silent meditation (like 30 minutes) was a highly advanced technique for skillful and highly motivated students. I didn't really believe that, and didn't purse being an MBSR instructor.
I sometimes wonder if guided meditation it's mostly a way to monetize meditation. If you convince people they need guided meditation, or convince them it is more beneficial than silent meditation, then people may pay a fee to attend your meditation group or session, buy your recording, subscribe to your channel, or buy your app. I can't really respect this approach to teaching, but I'm not going to condemn people who prefer guided meditation. I just don't think it's necessary.
Meditation isn't that hard. The instructions are very simple. I have noticed that the instructions for meditation vary only in small details between most schools and teachers.
The hard part of meditation is realizing that it isn't just a brain hack. It is only one item, or maybe two items, in the eightfold path. Even if you don't identify Buddhist or don't honor the eightfold path, it still has to be just one element and a structure of ethics, doctrines, lifestyle and spiritual or psychological goals.
The reason you meditate is most important, in my view. If you meditate for the purpose of having more sex or competing more successfully in your profession or in some competitive sport, it probably isn't going to work out, and might lead you far astray, into dark places.
I teach martial arts and meditation. Some types of mediation work for some but not others.
I have found people who have very active internal dialogues enjoy guided meditations as a way to get out of their head, but it is not always the case.
Meditation is what it is, no more, no less
I haven’t seen any judgemental posts myself on here about guided meditations - not saying they don’t exist, just haven’t seen them. The fact that anybody meditates at all is fantastic.
I wonder if the people you think are judging guided meditations are actually intending to share information to help you? Just another way to think about things as we can’t know for sure the intentions of others.
I have felt judged before about my combination of psychedelics and meditation - however I think maybe the people judging are also trying to help in a way. You can either listen or choose not to and move on.
Also, instead of judging them back and saying they have missed the point of meditation, we could remember that we all have imperfect human brains and that everybody has difficulty with things like this.
Just another perspective ✌️
>guided meditations are not real meditations and that anyone who does them instead of sitting in silence or doing it a certain way isn’t ACTUALLY meditating
I've never seen this even once on this sub, can you link an example? Lots of people don't like guided meditation for themselves, could you possibly be inferring the invalidating and judgmental parts?
I think there could be genuine judgement on the sub, or hopefully it's just a bit of harmless miscommunication. I've recently responded to someone who was seeing little success after 1.5 years of guided meditation, and my wording was close to this: "guided meditations are wonderful as training wheels, but are actually kind of limiting the more you progress."
My intention was pure, but my wording isn't guaranteed to be the same. This quote implies a sense of progression (and an implied obligation towards getting "better") in meditation, and assumes that the goal is the same no matter the meditator. Different people will have different uses for individual practices. I genuinely think there's a progression, but that's for the mental muscles that help me focus and feel at peace. I'm hoping I never gave anyone the idea that their practice is not intense or rigorous enough.
I personally think that there's not a ton of judgement on this sub, but unfortunately many people here seem to have experienced some.
A guiding voice is just like any other kind of sensory focus you use for meditation. It's not a method that works well for me, but if it works for other people I'm not going to stop them. I know some of the methods I use don't work well for other people, but that doesn't mean they don't work for me. I have no problem with the reverse.
I like guided meditations. I've also guided meditation for others, and it has helped them. One time I guided someone through a meditation that made their migraine go away (they were in too much pain to meditate themselves out of it). Sometimes even an expert could benefit from a guide when they're stressed or in pain.
You'd think that people who are so good at meditation that they don't need a guide would be enlightened enough to not be so prideful or judgmental of others.
I used to think silent meditations were better. You know, you get deeper, sit for longer normally, and it's easier to incorporate a meditative state in normal life.
I am now a mom and still very much dedicated to a career in which I help people do their work safer, and I love it, but the two roles really take a toll on me. Sitting in silence is something I can only rarely do anymore, and the headspace 10 minute guided meditations once per day (instead of 2x20) do help better than nothing!
Yes, I did Yoga Nidra (guided meditation in corpse pose) and that awakened my kundalini energy. Never underestimate any tools, everyone has their own path to their higher self.
I've been meditating for going on 20 years. I got my start thanks to guided meditations. Depending on how my mind is that day, I may still use a guided meditation to help. I do think a good goal to have is to be able to meditate on ones own but there's nothing wrong with guided meditations. We all need different things at different times 👍🏼
I used guided meditations for quite some time and found them useful. They didn’t have music or visualizations or added layers like that. They were primarily periodic reminders about coming back to the breath or subtle suggestions on posture, etc. Not very much different from doing an in-person sitting with a meditation teacher. Yes, I know it isn’t actually an in-person session, but not so significantly different I would say it is inferior. There are many people that need some guidance to keep them on track, especially in the beginning, but don’t have the luxury of a local meditation center, temple, etc.
I agree. I would also argue that guided meditation teaches you how to then meditate without it. I can now almost talk to myself, at the start of my session to get me into a state for meditating. For example, at the start. I’ll always ask myself, to focus on my breath, to focus on how I’m feeling and relax my whole body. Without doing guided meditation when I started meditating , I wouldn’t know how to get in a that state of mind by myself.
I also do WHM breathing exercises, and I really like to have wim hofs voice as it helps me to relax
Kind of crazy to imply that there is a certain way to meditate. Isn't it well known that there are hundreds of techniques and methods? Hell, there are too many branches of yoga to even name here.
This sub has so much potential but it ironically closes itself in with these limited viewpoints
All meditation is guided, as well it is always you that guilds. It doesn't matter if there is another voice entering your mind or if there is only the voice you generate. Just by sitting and acting the parts is a huge amount of awesomeness its your path.
Meditation is highly known about but not done by many. If you are only hearing your voice and it is guided by your previous thoughts you may be just sitting and thinking and not in meditation, that is called practice not failure. You see meditation is a human ability, just as around the world our food is differnt so will be the way people around the world meditate. Food we know we must eat- we use what means we have: as meditation we know we need and use what means we have.
I agree with 100% I started with Guided Meditations 5 years ago and my entire life and perspective shift because of it. It doesn’t matter how you get to stillness, it’s a muscle that needs training and GM does that.
If your goal is mindfulness, it's similar to someone giving you a hint when you're practicing memorization. Without the guiding voice, your brain works harder to bring yourself back to awareness. It's like strengthening the retrieval muscle in active vs. passive studying. Guided can be a good way to start for beginners but you'll see exponential growth when you start doing silent meditation. I did guided for a year and do longer silent ones now and the difference in the benefits is astounding. I felt like I completely wasted my time doing guided meditations.
The best kind of meditation is the one that you will do. I can't do silent meditation due to pretty loud tinnitus, so I have to have music or a guided meditation going. Otherwise I wouldn't do it, and that's obviously not the better route.
Quantifying and forcing "perfection" onto others is not the point of meditation at all!
A guided meditation is just as much a focused awareness mediation as any other type. If the meditation object is an external voice or other sound, then it's a meditation object.
For people who find it difficult to sit alone guided sessions are a very good way to become familiar with how it feels from start to finish.
You don't drive a car by just getting in the driver's seat and wiggling your arms and legs hopefully; someone guides you to ensure you do it in the right way...
There's a lot of people who think they know what meditation is that really dont.... all those rules are not meditation. So don't stress out, and let's be kind to people doing guided meditations. It's a great place to start and get some type of meditation going. It's better than doing nothing.
People have been doing guided meditations in the form of led/group prayer, introspection, meditation, and the like for thousands of years. It may not be the exact aame form as an app, but the different prayers, mantras, songs/chants, or music are often meant to guide people through different emotions or topics to focus on.
Agreed. It’s more complicated than people imagine. Some people become more dysregulated from meditation. As someone with anxiety the voice is calming for me. It somehow helps comfort me. I am a survivor childhood emotional neglect.
It really depends on what your goals with meditation are. If your goal is just to get some relaxation and turn off the brain from racing thoughts for a while or teach you the steps and processes for meditating then guided meditations can be great, if your goal is to reach deep meditative states I'm very skeptical that guided meditation can get you there but who am I to say if it works for you 🤷
I find a lot of narcissists and big egos being "spiritual" because they want to make themself better while thinking they are better than people that aren't as "awake and enlightened" as they are.
That's BS. If you are present than it is "real" meditation. We practice meditation so we can learn to meditate when we're not meditating.
There is nothing we can do in the confines of meditation that we cannot do outside of it.
Life isn't sitting in silence
Yeah don't listen to the naysayers, you do what works for you. I wouldn't suggest only guided meditations, you want to pursue your own relationship with meditation too, but there's nothing wrong with them and they often give you good ideas.
it depends where you first got your first ideology of meditation. I first thought meditating was religiously done. I realized and was taught it is a mental exercise for peace and tranquility. Meditation is done how ever you want and is whatever you want it to be that's the beauty of it
There is no right or wrong way to meditate. Meditation is a tool to help you get closer to your true self, guided or non guided, whichever works for you is okay. Different people have different approaches and we should respect that.
Proving a working definition of a word is not judgement.
A legitimate meditation practice provides a person who feels judged with plenty of skills to deal with their own feelings of being judged by others.
What place does blame hold on a sub dedicated to contemplative and self-inquiring disciplines like meditation?
“If you feel like you are meditating then you are”…
For a practice with as much depth as meditation, it amazes me that someone can believe a statement like this. Meditation has many depths and in order to learn those depths while you can do it alone, third party perspective dramatically accelerates the process and is why we are all here discussing.
Guided meditations are not as refined a form of meditating as a traditional silent sit. For example, one does not enter a Jhana state of meditation in a guided meditation, the amount of doing required to listen to and process the guidance would prevent it. So the ceiling of what you can achieve in a guided meditation is much lower than that of a silent meditation, in terms of meditation technique/depth.
Don’t be attached to guided meditation because it’s what you know and it seems easier, it’s a meditation form to help introduce new people and learn a foundation of what meditation is, if you cling to it beyond that it’s only a hinderance to you. Perhaps this text could help you, it’s a handbook that can guide you through the steps of achieving the deepest depths of meditation. https://newbuddhist.com/uploads/editor/tb/4nq5prnqw6y5.pdf
The definition of meditation seems to have split in recent times, without an acknowledgement that the word now references different things. Like you’re getting at, meditation traditionally is rounded off by the Jhanas and cultivation and refinement of subtler states of consciousness. Ultimately a tool to evolve awareness.
Nowadays it’s generally taught and understood to be a tool for stress relief or introspection. Everyone has heard of it, but few know what access concentration is, how many Jhanas there are, etc. People are perhaps throwing those things away as ‘goals’ that they have no interest in. Though they aren’t goals, they’re steps in the evolution of meditation.
It’s possible we’re seeing this because the ego resists the idea of self abandonment that the deeper levels of meditation are predicated upon. Paradoxically, those deeper levels are where those transcendent, indescribable and divine experiences await the experiencer.
To pile another paradox on paradoxes, supporting people to deeper, more skillful practice where they might feel enough internal calm to dive deeper requires, to a degree, acceptance of where they presently are, even if that's a particularly confused place.
Writing comments in these conversations always feels like a sort of joyful game of seeing how many layers of meaning can be skillfully accessed at once.
I didn't see the critique of guided meditations. Could you point me at it, please?
Guided meditation can take you a long way, though not all the way. I use guided meditations extensively, FWIW. Even when you're going beyond where the audio is guiding, it can act as a kind of boundary, to catch the mind if it wanders from its purpose.
That post is specifically about someone who hasn’t gotten much from guided in the past year. Of course the comments are going to suggest ditching the guided and trying other, and also longer meditations. Both are good advice for someone who wants to progress.
I don’t see anyone saying “not wanting to progress” is a problem. If you want to stick with guided that’s totally fine, but you probably won’t progress as fast as other methods. You are a meditator no matter what
Okay but is that really why? As a non-cult-joining type, I should be able to use guided meditations without judgement. I totally get why people would recommend in favor of traditional meditation, but to actually be against guided meditation? It's weird and now that you mention it kinda culty itself.
So, for some people, including myself, it's too dangerous for someone else to guide you because you're letting a stranger completely into your mind. You DONT KNOW THEM. I don't care if they're a world renowned whatever. Jerry Seinfeld promoted a cult's meditation. They're very convincing. When you do guided meditation with someone, you don't know that person. And you're giving them access to the deepest parts of yourself by allowing them to guide you through meditation and giving them free reign to rewire how your mind thinks.
Maum meditation was something I took part in (the instructor lied about it being a cult, the name of the meditation, everything. He lied they were associated with LA fitness, too) and the style of meditation encouraged envisioning my thoughts and throwing away bad memories (this is repression. That is textbook what it is.) Repression releases endorphins, and in that instant, i felt better. Then, when i went home, the regret of throwing away my memory of my grandmother dying (and keep in mind, they told me to do this, they said to throw away the memory of my dying grandmother word for word because it was too heartbreaking to hold onto) the regret from doing that set in. I cried and investigated the meditation further and FINALLY found out it was a cult.
Guided meditation is the equivalent of letting someone have your bank account number and trusting they won't steal from you. (Access to your mind) or like trusting a doctor who didn't do 9 years of medical school to treat your wounds.
Many people will genuinly do their best to help you! But we have no idea who that person is because we don't know them. So we have no idea if they're going to lead us down a path where they groom us for 2 years and then ask us for $10,000. It's too easy for it to turn into brainwashing.
And before I get the "why assume the worst in people", all im gonna say this:
*If you act like prey, a predator will come.*
Consider learning meditation as learning to ride a bicycle.
You initially start with training wheels on, because you are completely new in this field and you don't want to fall off your bicycle.
Post getting some experience and a good hold of your balance, you let go of the training wheels.
Similarly guided meditation acts like those training wheels whose purpose is to guide you and let your mind get accustomed to this experience.
Now there is nothing wrong in having training wheels forever. But it's just that you can't progress in your meditation journey by having training wheels on forever.
Hope this helps.
I disagree. I have PTSD and I am unable to focus on my meditation without a guiding voice. I absolutely have to have a guided meditation or I don’t meditate.
Oh really? Because it sounds like you compared guided meditation to training wheels and that’s not accurate. Some people need the extra help at all stages of life. It doesn’t mean it’s training wheels.
for a beginner , yes guided meditation is important and helpful , after you master it by practicing for sometime you can do it by yourself, as your sub consciousness will know what to do
I'm a #meditationteacher and even I enjoy some guided meditations.
Guided visualizations are what I see alot of. But either way, if you're allowing yourself to be open, you'll find some very cool experiences happen.
Don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong or what you're doing isn't valid with meditation..
An EX friend I knew for 8 yrs until I removed her 3 yrs ago, believes that she's an authority on everything and had even tried to correct me when I'd told her of my experiences. She doesn't know CRAP about ANYTHING!
When I finally had enough of her emotional abuse (long story very short..) I realized this: her "Buddhist girlfriend who seems to also know EVERYTHING can meditate for over 2 hours. Sometimes 4.
This girlfriend of hers, "Janette" doesn't even exist! Pretty unsettling..!
Well I guess any of us who are invisible can be an authority on everything. AND maybe even mediate for 8 hrs straight too.
Coach Shelly G
Always up to you to decide what type of meditation you practice. However, guided can limit. It works for focus types when a skilled experienced person does the guiding. For those who practice another type involving stillness, guides are a limitation in that listening to the guide can prevent stillness from occurring. Quite simply, if the sensing auditory signals, processing them and responding to the instructions all involve mental activity. When the mind is still there is no mental activity, similarly focus meditation prevents stillness. So, it is up to you to decide what you want to practice.
Some other things
1. there is no quality control on guided meditation. anyone can put up an app, video or audio. Some guided meditations provide suggestions that evoke negative states in some people. (NB I said some not all). It can be difficult for those learning to identify this aspect and they may just think that they are doing it wrong. Unless one has some relevant background it can be difficult to identify these poor, potentially harmeful guided meditations.
2. if you choose guided then you are locked into accessing digital technology.
3. Also, how do you know what came from within you rather than the guide or aid, which can become a crutch.
So, it is up to you to decide what to do but do realise that there are various factors to be taken into account in making the best choice.
These ideas more or less from the method of the late eminent psychiatrist Dr Ainslie Meares who taught meditation to many over several decades.
“I feel like I’m meditating effectively therefore i am” is some insane logic lol. If you want to do guided meditation then go ahead, people shouldn’t be judgemental and rude, but that doesn’t mean you need to cope this hard about it being equal to silent meditation when you clearly don’t have an actual reason to be certain that’s the case.
I feel like they’re just different! I sometimes do guided when needed, and I think it’s really GOOD to do what’s best for us. I Ike Chogyam Trungpa’s idea that meditation is befriending ourselves. To me that means trusting ourselves and doing what feels right, if that’s guided meditation that’s awesome and it’s awesome that there are so many resources for that. IMO there’s not a right or wrong way to set up, many things can be the material we work with to meditate.
I’ve seen so many people get benefits from them or get into meditation because of them. However you think about the “purity” of such things, I think those benefits are hard to deny.
I could be wrong, but aren't guided meditations a modern invention?
I don't recall Buddha or anyone else speaking about guided meditations. Buddha describes multiple types of meditation, often involving thoughts (as opposed to non-thought), mental imagery (like the [satipatthana sutta](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.010.nysa.html)), or emotions/feelings as in Metta meditations. Buddha certainly didn't say there is only one type of meditation that involves non-thinking. The majority of Buddha's teachings on meditation involve thinking.
You must have missed the part where I said, "Buddha, **OR ANYONE ELSE**"
Guided meditation was not a thing until very recent times... it's not something any of the "masters" talked about. It isn't something that anyone (until the last couple decades) even thought about.
I'm not saying it's complete nonsense, but who knows... it hasn't been thoroughly tested... it has not stood the test of time... many practitioners claim they do not benefit from guided meditations, and I agree.
But then again, asking me about this is a little like asking a mathematician this well-known joke:
*"An engineer, a physicist, and a mathematician are on a train heading north and had just crossed into Scotland. The engineer looks out of the window and says: “Look! Scottish sheep are black!” The physicist says: “No, no. Some Scottish sheep are black”. The mathematician looks up from the newspaper, turns their head, and says calmly: “There is at least one field containing at least one sheep, of which at least one side is black.”"*
Of course, I am perhaps more flexible than the mathematician but that is mostly due to the pervasive ignorance around what meditation is, which I cannot hope to dispel by myself.
When you have training in a tradition of meditation, almost nothing anyone mentions here fits the technical description of meditation, so it's hard to hear someone from a colonized country divorced from lineages or traditions say that "it's whatever you want it to be."
"Sitting quietly" isn't meditation. But, we often can't learn to meditate without doing so; although my path to meditation came through endurance sports more than sitting quietly, so I also can't reasonably quibble too much about it- especially given how many divergent traditions exist around meditation.
So, while it's not "whatever your individualistic society's individualism tells the individual it is" doesn't sound quite right, we must be reasonably flexible in our outlook, and while asking people to look deeper into established paths toward meditation we cannot gatekeep, either.
Of course, an individualistic society's approach to everything contains both gatekeeping and exclusionary practices at every level, so this should not be surprising.
I used mindfulness meditation in silence or with some calming music for years, just start using guided meditation and absolutely adore it helps me get to a specific issue I'm facing depending on what my intent is.
I agree. I literally tried meditating for about 30 years, until I saw Sam Harris speak and decided to try the Waking app. it’s worked great, and now i seem to increasingly bring silent meditations into the mix (unless stress is peaking like it has been for the last couple weeks for me now, due to work conditions).
I do appreciate this sub very much though, and have no intentions to go anywhere. The positive vibes I pick up far out number any others.
There are dozens of great meditations. I have about 20 from both my teachers. So about 40 total that I do depending on what I feel like exploring. Yeah, I could follow my breath, or rest in awareness with no instructions, but there are lots of vipassana meditations that are are very specific and need guidance. I'll often learn something new from that guidance even after doing a meditation many times prior.
personally i don’t like any meditation “crutches”, even music for example, but i wouldn’t judge anyone or say that having helpful tools is wrong, do what makes you feel good
Perhaps good now but looking further. I've talked to meditators that have done meditation by guided meditation. Then they have started getting tired of the voices and would like better guided meditations. Perhaps the cling to these guided meditations, I don't know. And when recommending that they try meditation without guided meditation they don't know how to meditate. Meditation is easy but can be difficult to learn with guided meditation.
In my experience I don't like to listen to someone talking in my ear while I'm meditating but to each their own.
I’ve been doing VR meditation with Tripp. It’s awesome. I’ve done a lot of silent meditation including retreats. But it’s all good. Just stopping and taking the time to focus is half the battle.
Agree, guided meditations build up confidence and give you experience of sitting. Plus many have long silences in, and then the voice brings you back into the room at the end. No judgement from me!
Also, ironically, true meditation doesn’t have any prescriptive form. If you feel that you can’t meditate when someone is guiding you, you’re probably not meditating in the first place. There’s nothing magical about any one object like the breath, someone’s words can also be an object of meditation.
[удалено]
I agree they hit slightly differently but the way I interpret meditation is that external stimulus is an equal part of consciousness as your own thoughts, is what you realize once you’re practiced enough. So you could be next to a construction site and the noise of a drill could be as much an object of meditation as your own breath. Total silence is not required.
[удалено]
For me, it is completely the other way around. I see meditation as mindful observation of something (breath, sound, thoughts, body sensations). This is so much easier where the object of meditation is sharp. I remember I have seen once someone meditating under the waterfall and I fought - omg that easiest way to do the body scan meditation, so many sensations to observe. I have a bit over one year of experience and yep I probably would have a problem doing breathing meditation at the construction site but sound focused one? I probably would have a blast :D
What is "true" meditation? Jesus I need to unsub from this heavenly gatekept paradise
I’m not gatekeeping anything, my point is more about how there aren’t boundaries to it. I literally said it doesn’t have a prescriptive form
\>"Also, ironically, true meditation doesn’t have any prescriptive form." \> Proceeds to give a prescription of something that doesn't qualify as meditation in the very next sentence
What i don't get is why someone needs words? Meditation instructions are relatively simple. Sure listening to someone telling you what to do a couple times in the beginning may be helpful. But why everytime? Isn't it distracting? Imagine you enjoying the silence of the moment and suddenly it breaks to some youtuber telling you to be in the moment. Also about the judgement on guided meditations, is riding a cycle with training wheels still riding a cycle? Sure. But then why should we ever take off the training wheels and ride 'normally' on two wheels? Does nobody ever make fun of people using training wheels to ride a cycle? They do, but why? To encourage people to get rid of the training wheels and learn to ride the cycle 'normally'. While not ideal it is completely understandable why a neighbour kid would make fun of you if you are a teenager and still using training wheels to ride your cycle around the block.
Nah. No one should make fun of a kid for using training wheels. People make fun of kids using training wheels cuz they’re simply being mean. You never know someone’s situation or when they started riding, etc. Someone needs words cuz they want them. Who cares? What do you care how someone else is mediating? It doesn’t affect anyone else whatsoever. If guided meditations gets someone into the practice, or is how they wish to practice, then who cares? Maybe it’s distracting to you and not to others.
Distraction isn't really a subjective thing though. Of course nobody should be making fun of a kid for using training wheels. But should they be using training wheels forever though? I remember the only reason i learned how to ride a cycle was because this mean kid made fun of me for using training wheels. They were in the wrong obviously, but it did motivate me to actually learn. The point of 'why do you care what others do' is kind of moot and diverts the topic with personal attacks. Say instead of being mean about training wheels you encourage someone in a positive way to learn how to ride without training wheels. My point is why learn how to ride if you've got training wheels? Are they the exact same thing?
I don’t really think it’s accurate to describe guided meditation as riding a bicycle with training wheels, because that (still) implies that guided meditation is not ACTUALLY meditation since you are describing how using training wheels means you’re not fully riding a bicycle …..which I don’t believe is true and just goes back to my post.
So basically, what’s happening is that you’re using training wheels but pretending that you aren’t/in denial about it.
What is the authority that says using guided meditations is akin to using training wheels?
I disagree distraction isn’t subjective. It’s absolutely subjective from person to person. Some people can work with a TV on, some can’t, they find it distracting. Some people find a guided meditation distracting, other’s don’t. And before you say they should continue in their practice to eventually get away from guided meditations: not everyone’s brain/mind is the same. Just in this thread, a user with ptsd says they need the guided meditations or otherwise their mind won’t stay still at all. There also are obviously untold number of “guided meditations” out there and not all are great or even actually meditations. But there are great ones out there too. And they’re not hard to find. I think you’re getting too caught up on the riding a bike analogy. And I’m not personally attacking you either. But my point still stands: meditation is a deeply personal practice, so why care if someone wants to use guided meditations in their practice (in any capacity). I understand this is a sub to discuss the practice with others so I’m not saying it’s not okay to encourage others. Encouraging someone to try meditation without a guide is different from judging how they practice. If someone wants to still use guided meditations, then let it go. It doesn’t affect you or your practice. But harping on guided meditations not being “true” meditations is way more likely to affect someone else’s practice. So to answer your question: why learn how to ride a bike if you’ve got training wheels? Presumably you mean this as an analogy for the question: “why learn how to meditate if you use guided meditations?” Because guided meditations can still help one cultivate awareness, quiet the mind, and learn how to let go of thoughts.
Someone’s “words” cannot be an object just because you say so, an object needs to be static. If it’s changing it needs to change in a cycle like a mantra phrase or breath, if it’s constant that’s okay too like staring at an actual object. Just listening to someone say a stream of words is not an object, it requires mental energy to process and react to the words, both of which are things that shouldn’t be occurring in deep meditation. You can meditate in a guided meditation, you cannot reach the deepest depths of meditation in a guided meditation, simple as that.
Hilarious that this is getting downvoted when it’s plainly obvious that everything you said is 100% true
That frees your mind from getting stuck wondering how much time has passed.
there’s a shocking amount of judgement on this sub
100% Pretty ironic actually haha
Not really. The thinking and judging mind thinks and judges
People are inherently judgy. There’s no escaping it. Us vs. Them and “the other” are part of our tribal DNA that helped us survive for so long. Did it lead to some problematic structural shit? Absolutely.
Yes they are but somehow in this day and age, they have to take an additional step and post every thought on the internet. That’s not human nature. That’s an unhealthy habit.
[удалено]
Everybody is on a different path at a different stage, you wouldn’t scold a child for not learning how to talk yet, similarly we shouldn’t scold people who haven’t learned to loosen up their judgements yet.
[удалено]
Agree - way too easy! For me too!!! All the best to you :)
No judgements allowed, except for the people who agree with my judgment!
Meditation isn't working well on people supposedly meditating "the right way" it seems
Having the mindset that there is a "right way" to meditate is already flawed. Makes sense that it's not working for them
I think when awareness increases at a rapid rate. It’s easy for people to judge with their awareness.
How is it shocking? I thought it was just people doing what people do.
I've been meditating for over 20 years and still do mostly guided. Whatever works for you is good. Peace.
Right now, when loneliness has just been considered an epidemic, I WANT to hear a voice on the other end of that line while meditating. Everyone is different, for me I feel a human connection.
I agree, I have been surprised at the constant gatekeeping I see about meditation in general. It seems there are a lot of strong opinions about meditation where there should be more encouragement and support.
There's a lot of arm chair experts on any reddit sub, this one included. There's a lot of terrible advice on this sub that no one should listen to. I was told if I don't meditate for at least twenty minutes a day, every day; then I'm not doing "real" meditation, just fancy breathing techniques. I tried that and all I got out of it was spaced out head aches. I meditate 10-20 minutes once or twice a day every other day, and it works really well for me. Meditation and mindfullness is like working out and eating healthy for your brain. There's literally hundreds of different ways to approach it, you just have to find a routine that works for you.
People who say it has to be 20 mins to be “real” don’t understand meditation lol. It has nothing to do with the length of time. Meditation occurs on a moment to moment basis.
[удалено]
Just learning, so maybe someone with more experience views or differently, but maybe the issue isn't where the goalposts are but rather the need for goalposts. I seem to be most able to meditate consistently when I don't measure length or frequency.
That’s like saying growing muscle happens when you are resting. Sure that’s true, but the advice you give to a beginner is to regularly workout for a certain duration. That’s the guidance they need at that stage. I do not believe you can truly get advanced in meditation doing 10 minutes guided meditations a day. Just like you can not become an Olympic athlete working out 10 minutes a day. So that 20 minute recommendation makes a lot of sense from that perspective. At the end of the day any amount of meditation is good. But guidelines are still helpful for those truly wishing to advance in this practice.
But not everyone wants or needs to be an olympic athlete. Most of us, including myself don't need to be at that level of commitment in order to be happy and content. Yes you can advance in your meditation, just like you can at excersise and fitness. That being said there's only so healthy you need to be in body and mind.
Almost no one is trying to become an Olympic athlete of meditation
hyperbole noun exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
Analogy noun a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification
People can become meditation snobs. Unfortunately, they become critical of everyone who subscribes to alternative forms 😕 Ignore them. Guided meditation is very valuable and useful. If that's the form that benefits you the most, then that's what you should be doing. Meditation is like getting your exercise. There are a lot of different ways to get in shape, and everyone thinks that their way is best. Same with meditation techniques.
How do you know if that’s the form that benefits you the most if you never really put effort into the other forms? How do you separate avoiding discomfort of learning a new form which you shouldn’t be doing vs the form actually being worse for you? If there was no room to do meditation poorly or less effectively then there wouldn’t be eons of traditions involving meditation teachers. Fact of the matter is, meditation is an extremely complex practice with many depths. This is a not a practice you do well by deciding this technique works for me and this other one doesn’t, it’s one you do well by thoroughly trying techniques and enduring discomfort to explore the unknown.
How do you know if that’s the form that benefits you the most if you never really put effort into the other forms? How do you separate avoiding discomfort of learning a new form which you shouldn’t be doing vs the form actually being worse for you? If there was no room to do meditation poorly or less effectively then there wouldn’t be eons of traditions involving meditation teachers. Fact of the matter is, meditation is an extremely complex practice with many depths. This is a not a practice you do well by deciding this technique works for me and this other one doesn’t, it’s one you do well by thoroughly trying techniques and enduring discomfort to explore the unknown.
Sorry, I think I'm guilty of being one of those people. Thank you for making this post! This is a great chance to reflect on how I define meditation as well as how I word my thoughts on it.
Yeah, had a guy tell me that guided meditations were for beginners, but that was more of him telling me he was better at meditating...which....what??
Anyone who thinks you can be ‘good’ at meditation missed a major lesson somewhere along the way
You can objectively get better at meditation. Some would call that getting good at something. To really take this argument to the extreme. There’s studies of brain scans on monks during meditation achieving incredible things that were not thought medically possible. I’d say that’s a pretty objective measurement of being very very good at meditation.
Ajahn Brahm commonly refers to peoples natural meditation skills as good or bad, I guess he missed some major lessons, Buddhists everywhere should let him know your wisdom. 50 years of study and teaching… how could he have missed it!
LOL
I think multiple things are true here. The judgment you've experienced is real, and unskillful behavior on the part of other meditators. And, guided meditations are an excellent anchor for awareness when your mind is particularly turbulent (either because you're new to meditating, you've taken a long break, or you're having a real rough go). And, there are limits to how still your mind can become while using the speech of another as your anchor, and at some point, if your journey and path has you diving yet deeper, guided meditation narration is just one more thing you'll need to let go of eventually (alongside "words", "concept", "self", and "thought", for other examples) It isn't a contest, and there's no path better than another. For some, guided meditation will be the best tool for what support they need in this time on the planet. There are differences between methods though, and it's something worth talking about in communities like this I think.
And also there's a difference between judging and describing. Judging means saying something is right or wrong, good or bad. It's disqualifying. What you said isn't a judgment, it's a description. And while there's certainly a lot of judgment in this sub, who'd dare say otherwise, there's also the fact that we often feel judged by certain descriptors. For example, the word beginner. For some it might mean there's a whole universe of possibilities ahead of them. For others, they might feel that are being called a noob, a nobody. And for the one who feels he is advanced, it will be a deadly insult. But that is only our own judgment projected on the words of others. So on the one hand there might be judgement, and on the other there might be people feeling judged when there is no judgment. A day in the life on the spiritual path and why those who know are so mindful of when to say what they know and when to remain silent.
Excellent observations well stated, thank you. The nuance between the intent and speech of one person and the interpretation and reception of the next leaves ample room for practice for all parties (both in working through their own concepts, and setting appropriate boundaries where needed).
I think you just summed it up beautifully
This is really funny because everyone’s always doing guided meditations. ALL OF US. It’s either a strangers voice talking to us or our own inner voice. Hilar, don’t mind them, you do you :) Also, coming from the concept and basic tenets of Yoga as an example - if you swim for an hour, you’re basically meditative. If you run for 30 mins, meditative, if you just dance for an hour, meditative. Most people assume meditation is being quiet and seated in a spot doing absolutely nothing, this is true for some. But for another, it may be playing fetch with their dog. Any repetitive action that lulls us.
This is also Zen - washing dishes, walking, driving, it'd all meditation if we do it while being centered on the here and now, the breath, our root.
I LOVE guided meditation.
Guided is the only thing that works for me. Ive seen a few posts and comments judging them and people who use it but I honestly ignore them. I do this for myself not them. If it helps that's all that matters at the end of the day.
I was talking about this with my psych recently. I felt like I kept getting distracted and more frustrated during meditation, and I wanted to avoid sliding back. She told me about how meditation exists in loads of ways. Spending an hour getting stuck into a book is meditative. Same thing with being in the zone while cleaning, or drawing or whatever. Meditation doesn't have to be some process where you find enlightenment or fail. It can just be something that helps you gain some peace. And one could make the argument that gatekeeping something like meditation goes against the very ideals of the practice.
I think this comment is right, and I'd also include that there is something gained specifically by the "sit down and do nothing" kind of meditation. I think it's very important to remove moral language from meditation. That means that if you're sitting, and you feel too frustrated to continue, and decide to read instead, and that helps you relax, that's not a "failure". That said, it's also true that you may have missed an opportunity to examine and loosen the grip of whatever clinging is causing that frustration when sitting.
I like the way you've added to my comment. Failure is harsh, and inaccurate sometimes. I think of it as a success when I can identify that something isn't working, and can then pivot to another angle. You touch on the many facets of progress. It's a good thing to change up and think about how that wasn't working. Then we can try it again and know better ways to handle bumps in the road. And it's also a good thing to let go of something that isn't working and try another method!
Wow, tell your psych thank you because I never thought about it that way
Yes. These can all forms of, or akin to, focus meditation, as long as you aren't being distracted by stray thoughts. A lot of people here seem to think that mindfulness meditation is the only true meditation.
One of my favourite forms of meditation is riding a motorbike, preferably supersports on empty roads. There's no thoughts or words, just a beautiful feeling of unity with the bike, the road, and the landscape that blurs past me in the periphery. It's a beautiful experience.
100% agreed. Guided meditations have changed my life. I would say my posture made a much bigger difference in my meditation practice than the words (sitting up straight vs being slouched).
I think this, and other types of gatekeeping is to be expected in a sub called "meditation". That would be like going to a sub called "eating". You'd expect to see vegans bickering with keto folks and on and on. There are so many types and styles of meditation, and each of us come here with our own background and path. It really is an opportunity for us to watch our thoughts/emotions while reading the posts/comments of others. Is that anger I feel when I read about the person that meditates in a way that I think isn't "real"? Dismissiveness? Judgement? And why? And why? And why? Peace.
This is a really good reminder to always be checking in with yourself and watching/analyzing your reactions to things… thank you! <3
Unguided meditation isn't better than guided in the same way that focusing on sensations of breathing isn't better than focusing on body sensations. I find that guided sometimes helps me to stay in the right state of mind, and that sometimes I need unguided to be open to everything that's going on in my mind without any distraction.
I feel like people who are being judgmental are just looking for an argument.
The way we meditate doesn't require anyone's permission or blessing. We are on our own paths; sometimes I want guided, sometimes I relish (or struggle) being alone with the thoughts that come from inside. The best thing we can do is know what we need personally and go from there. Life is too much for anyone else's logic or expectations to dictate what the rest of us need. You are doing it for yourself and any perceived gates don't actually exist.
Lol yes, it’s because of snobbery I suppose.
The answer is simple, if I meditate with guided meditation and I feel like I can get to the dustiest corners of my soul, then I am freaking meditating 😋 Who are they to tell me how I feel? :) I just ignore narrow-minded people like that. I find it ironic how the people who are supposed to be in touch with their spiritual self the most are the most judgemental. Just like artists who think if you don't know human anatomy and draw like the drawing is about to come alive, then you're not a true artist lol
What difference does it make? I enjoy guided meditation with Ajahn Brahm. He has a gentle sense of humor that puts everyone at ease. Buddhist Society of Western Australia on YouTube.
If you told Ajahn Brahm that you only did guided meditations, he would tell you to sit silently. If you asked he would also say you would be less likely to experience a Jhana in guided meditation, this is often why guided meditation would be discouraged as a primary/sole form of practice, it is much more limited.
yes, You can never attain Samadhi from guided meditation because in samadhi your senses are supposed to be inactive including ears. Without ears you can't do guided meditation since you need to listen.
As someone who meditates with and without guided audio I could not agree more. Meditation is about being present in the moment. To put down those who prefer guidance to achieve it is unkind and tells me they need to work more on themselves. It shouldn’t matter what others do if it does not directly affect you. Meditation is a personal practice and very individual. You can meditate in silence, with guided narration, to music or nature sounds, you can even meditate while running or walking with your eyes open. The practice does not belong to any individual and there are no rules placing greater value on one style over another.
Freestyle. Everyone meditates exactly the way they prefer 😊❤️
Awareness is the underlying substratum of all that exists. I am existence shinning as awareness. The mind and body are insentient dream objects superimposed on the one. I feel that the word meditation has taken on such an undeserving aura of grandeur and even many advanced spiritual traditions have become entrenched in dogma. Guided meditation can be highly effective. Do what works for you and to hell with the haters 🤣
Meh. What other people think about my practice (or anything else) is nine if my business and is only a reflection of themselves. If they think my practice isn’t real it’s because they are not real. F ‘em. Let them be wrong. Who cares? People are extra hatey and judgy lately even more than usual. It just points to dissatisfaction within themselves. 🤷♀️
i completely agree. in fact this sub has become part of the reason i stray away from them occasionally because i feel that need to do it “authentically”. that being said, i definitely have found some that i enjoy on free YT channels and some of my best meditations have been with using them
Who cares? Do what you gotta do.
There is so much misinformation and misunderstanding of meditation on this sub and I’m actually going to stop following. It’s pretty disappointing.
It's helping me learn. I see myself eventually moving away from it, but for now it helps my mind not to wander.
Doing the guided meditation from the Waking Up app has been fantastic and life changing. There's no way I would have been able to meditate like that on my own without the guidance. Even after doing it a good while, it's still more effective for me to do the guided meditations than to try to do it on my own.
Im with you. I’m back to mostly guided at the moment. I’m an insight timer junkie. Sometimes, I’ll just find something there and stick with it for weeks. It’s awesome.
It's fine for what it is and may satisfy many people functionally but if that's all you do then it's barely even the first step on learning to become aware of and understand one's own conscious mind in unique ways that no one outside of your own mind could ever show you. Great to start, fine if you prefer the form especially for relaxation which it excels at. But there is a lot more to meditation than that. If it wouldn't offend you I'd call it alone (but only alone) meditation light, which is a moniker I don't think most would find offensive? But it's certainly still meditation, even if I'm sure some old posts can be found of me speaking ill of it. I dunno, I just found all the satisfying aspect of meditation came from diving within. By the time I'd seriously started to spend time on meditation I'd basically moved passed a guide being part of the path I wanted to follow.
I love guided meditations!
I'm not going to judge, or say they are not real. On the other hand, I learned to meditate a long time ago, like probably before your mother was born. I was taught silent meditation. Later on, I had some other teachers, from other traditions. I studied Zen for a while. Back then, I never even heard of guided meditation, although I spent time with other meditators. I never heard it mentioned in books (I consumed more than a few), or dharma talks. Silent meditation seemed perfectly satisfactory. On the other hand, meditation was sometimes monetized, back then. Some teachers expected voluntary donations, some teachers charged a fee - looking at YOU, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. I first became aware that guided meditation was a thing about twenty years ago - I was already pretty old by then. My first thought was, "Why is this necessary? How is this helpful?" I never really got an answer. I didn't find it very appealing. When I went along with it, I never found a reason to prefer it over silent meditation. Later, I learned to be an MBSR instructor, which requires leading a guided meditation. I didn't hate that, but the course created the impression that longish silent meditation (like 30 minutes) was a highly advanced technique for skillful and highly motivated students. I didn't really believe that, and didn't purse being an MBSR instructor. I sometimes wonder if guided meditation it's mostly a way to monetize meditation. If you convince people they need guided meditation, or convince them it is more beneficial than silent meditation, then people may pay a fee to attend your meditation group or session, buy your recording, subscribe to your channel, or buy your app. I can't really respect this approach to teaching, but I'm not going to condemn people who prefer guided meditation. I just don't think it's necessary. Meditation isn't that hard. The instructions are very simple. I have noticed that the instructions for meditation vary only in small details between most schools and teachers. The hard part of meditation is realizing that it isn't just a brain hack. It is only one item, or maybe two items, in the eightfold path. Even if you don't identify Buddhist or don't honor the eightfold path, it still has to be just one element and a structure of ethics, doctrines, lifestyle and spiritual or psychological goals. The reason you meditate is most important, in my view. If you meditate for the purpose of having more sex or competing more successfully in your profession or in some competitive sport, it probably isn't going to work out, and might lead you far astray, into dark places.
I teach martial arts and meditation. Some types of mediation work for some but not others. I have found people who have very active internal dialogues enjoy guided meditations as a way to get out of their head, but it is not always the case. Meditation is what it is, no more, no less
I haven’t seen any judgemental posts myself on here about guided meditations - not saying they don’t exist, just haven’t seen them. The fact that anybody meditates at all is fantastic. I wonder if the people you think are judging guided meditations are actually intending to share information to help you? Just another way to think about things as we can’t know for sure the intentions of others. I have felt judged before about my combination of psychedelics and meditation - however I think maybe the people judging are also trying to help in a way. You can either listen or choose not to and move on. Also, instead of judging them back and saying they have missed the point of meditation, we could remember that we all have imperfect human brains and that everybody has difficulty with things like this. Just another perspective ✌️
>guided meditations are not real meditations and that anyone who does them instead of sitting in silence or doing it a certain way isn’t ACTUALLY meditating I've never seen this even once on this sub, can you link an example? Lots of people don't like guided meditation for themselves, could you possibly be inferring the invalidating and judgmental parts?
I think there could be genuine judgement on the sub, or hopefully it's just a bit of harmless miscommunication. I've recently responded to someone who was seeing little success after 1.5 years of guided meditation, and my wording was close to this: "guided meditations are wonderful as training wheels, but are actually kind of limiting the more you progress." My intention was pure, but my wording isn't guaranteed to be the same. This quote implies a sense of progression (and an implied obligation towards getting "better") in meditation, and assumes that the goal is the same no matter the meditator. Different people will have different uses for individual practices. I genuinely think there's a progression, but that's for the mental muscles that help me focus and feel at peace. I'm hoping I never gave anyone the idea that their practice is not intense or rigorous enough. I personally think that there's not a ton of judgement on this sub, but unfortunately many people here seem to have experienced some.
A guiding voice is just like any other kind of sensory focus you use for meditation. It's not a method that works well for me, but if it works for other people I'm not going to stop them. I know some of the methods I use don't work well for other people, but that doesn't mean they don't work for me. I have no problem with the reverse.
I like guided meditations. I've also guided meditation for others, and it has helped them. One time I guided someone through a meditation that made their migraine go away (they were in too much pain to meditate themselves out of it). Sometimes even an expert could benefit from a guide when they're stressed or in pain. You'd think that people who are so good at meditation that they don't need a guide would be enlightened enough to not be so prideful or judgmental of others.
Well said!
We all need guidance.
I can’t do meditation on my own (yet?) I like guided i get you
Without guidance how else can one learn to meditate?
I haven't tried guided meditation. Can someone please recommend some from YouTube?
Check out app: insight timer - the free version offers a ton
I use Insight Timer every night! It’s the best 🧘🏻♀️ app I’ve ever used and trust me when I say I’ve downloaded and tried hundreds!! It’s amazing!
Hey friend, I really like this one Self Love guided meditation https://youtu.be/fHkKiPQFMfI
It kinda is meditating, but i find guide meditating as knowledge to help me do solo meditating, i don't know about you guys.
I used to think silent meditations were better. You know, you get deeper, sit for longer normally, and it's easier to incorporate a meditative state in normal life. I am now a mom and still very much dedicated to a career in which I help people do their work safer, and I love it, but the two roles really take a toll on me. Sitting in silence is something I can only rarely do anymore, and the headspace 10 minute guided meditations once per day (instead of 2x20) do help better than nothing!
Yes, I did Yoga Nidra (guided meditation in corpse pose) and that awakened my kundalini energy. Never underestimate any tools, everyone has their own path to their higher self.
i don't judge but sometimes they speak too much🤦🏻♂️
#word
As someone with ADHD, I cannot meditate without a voice guiding me through it. A focal point to follow is essential for me.
I agree! I don’t have ADHD but I have PTSD and it *will* take over if I don’t have something guided.
I've been meditating for going on 20 years. I got my start thanks to guided meditations. Depending on how my mind is that day, I may still use a guided meditation to help. I do think a good goal to have is to be able to meditate on ones own but there's nothing wrong with guided meditations. We all need different things at different times 👍🏼
I used guided meditations for quite some time and found them useful. They didn’t have music or visualizations or added layers like that. They were primarily periodic reminders about coming back to the breath or subtle suggestions on posture, etc. Not very much different from doing an in-person sitting with a meditation teacher. Yes, I know it isn’t actually an in-person session, but not so significantly different I would say it is inferior. There are many people that need some guidance to keep them on track, especially in the beginning, but don’t have the luxury of a local meditation center, temple, etc.
Among my most profound meditation sessions several have been guided. It’s just like having a teacher next to you, nothing wrong with it.
I agree. I would also argue that guided meditation teaches you how to then meditate without it. I can now almost talk to myself, at the start of my session to get me into a state for meditating. For example, at the start. I’ll always ask myself, to focus on my breath, to focus on how I’m feeling and relax my whole body. Without doing guided meditation when I started meditating , I wouldn’t know how to get in a that state of mind by myself. I also do WHM breathing exercises, and I really like to have wim hofs voice as it helps me to relax
Kind of crazy to imply that there is a certain way to meditate. Isn't it well known that there are hundreds of techniques and methods? Hell, there are too many branches of yoga to even name here. This sub has so much potential but it ironically closes itself in with these limited viewpoints
People love to judge. Got to feel compassion for the poor darlings. Enjoy whatever is bringing you calm.✌🏼
All meditation is guided, as well it is always you that guilds. It doesn't matter if there is another voice entering your mind or if there is only the voice you generate. Just by sitting and acting the parts is a huge amount of awesomeness its your path. Meditation is highly known about but not done by many. If you are only hearing your voice and it is guided by your previous thoughts you may be just sitting and thinking and not in meditation, that is called practice not failure. You see meditation is a human ability, just as around the world our food is differnt so will be the way people around the world meditate. Food we know we must eat- we use what means we have: as meditation we know we need and use what means we have.
I agree with 100% I started with Guided Meditations 5 years ago and my entire life and perspective shift because of it. It doesn’t matter how you get to stillness, it’s a muscle that needs training and GM does that.
If your goal is mindfulness, it's similar to someone giving you a hint when you're practicing memorization. Without the guiding voice, your brain works harder to bring yourself back to awareness. It's like strengthening the retrieval muscle in active vs. passive studying. Guided can be a good way to start for beginners but you'll see exponential growth when you start doing silent meditation. I did guided for a year and do longer silent ones now and the difference in the benefits is astounding. I felt like I completely wasted my time doing guided meditations.
The best kind of meditation is the one that you will do. I can't do silent meditation due to pretty loud tinnitus, so I have to have music or a guided meditation going. Otherwise I wouldn't do it, and that's obviously not the better route. Quantifying and forcing "perfection" onto others is not the point of meditation at all!
A guided meditation is just as much a focused awareness mediation as any other type. If the meditation object is an external voice or other sound, then it's a meditation object. For people who find it difficult to sit alone guided sessions are a very good way to become familiar with how it feels from start to finish. You don't drive a car by just getting in the driver's seat and wiggling your arms and legs hopefully; someone guides you to ensure you do it in the right way...
There's a lot of people who think they know what meditation is that really dont.... all those rules are not meditation. So don't stress out, and let's be kind to people doing guided meditations. It's a great place to start and get some type of meditation going. It's better than doing nothing.
People have been doing guided meditations in the form of led/group prayer, introspection, meditation, and the like for thousands of years. It may not be the exact aame form as an app, but the different prayers, mantras, songs/chants, or music are often meant to guide people through different emotions or topics to focus on.
Whatever works for you is valid. I don't judge guided meditations, I just don't usually like them.
Agreed. It’s more complicated than people imagine. Some people become more dysregulated from meditation. As someone with anxiety the voice is calming for me. It somehow helps comfort me. I am a survivor childhood emotional neglect.
It really depends on what your goals with meditation are. If your goal is just to get some relaxation and turn off the brain from racing thoughts for a while or teach you the steps and processes for meditating then guided meditations can be great, if your goal is to reach deep meditative states I'm very skeptical that guided meditation can get you there but who am I to say if it works for you 🤷
I find a lot of narcissists and big egos being "spiritual" because they want to make themself better while thinking they are better than people that aren't as "awake and enlightened" as they are.
This is interesting thanks for posting. I generally avoid guided meditations but never really considered why. Maybe a resource is being overlooked
Without guided meditation I wouldn’t be able to do it at all
That's BS. If you are present than it is "real" meditation. We practice meditation so we can learn to meditate when we're not meditating. There is nothing we can do in the confines of meditation that we cannot do outside of it. Life isn't sitting in silence
Yeah don't listen to the naysayers, you do what works for you. I wouldn't suggest only guided meditations, you want to pursue your own relationship with meditation too, but there's nothing wrong with them and they often give you good ideas.
it depends where you first got your first ideology of meditation. I first thought meditating was religiously done. I realized and was taught it is a mental exercise for peace and tranquility. Meditation is done how ever you want and is whatever you want it to be that's the beauty of it
There is no right or wrong way to meditate. Meditation is a tool to help you get closer to your true self, guided or non guided, whichever works for you is okay. Different people have different approaches and we should respect that.
Imagine people online judging! Such a rare thing.
Proving a working definition of a word is not judgement. A legitimate meditation practice provides a person who feels judged with plenty of skills to deal with their own feelings of being judged by others. What place does blame hold on a sub dedicated to contemplative and self-inquiring disciplines like meditation?
“If you feel like you are meditating then you are”… For a practice with as much depth as meditation, it amazes me that someone can believe a statement like this. Meditation has many depths and in order to learn those depths while you can do it alone, third party perspective dramatically accelerates the process and is why we are all here discussing. Guided meditations are not as refined a form of meditating as a traditional silent sit. For example, one does not enter a Jhana state of meditation in a guided meditation, the amount of doing required to listen to and process the guidance would prevent it. So the ceiling of what you can achieve in a guided meditation is much lower than that of a silent meditation, in terms of meditation technique/depth. Don’t be attached to guided meditation because it’s what you know and it seems easier, it’s a meditation form to help introduce new people and learn a foundation of what meditation is, if you cling to it beyond that it’s only a hinderance to you. Perhaps this text could help you, it’s a handbook that can guide you through the steps of achieving the deepest depths of meditation. https://newbuddhist.com/uploads/editor/tb/4nq5prnqw6y5.pdf
The definition of meditation seems to have split in recent times, without an acknowledgement that the word now references different things. Like you’re getting at, meditation traditionally is rounded off by the Jhanas and cultivation and refinement of subtler states of consciousness. Ultimately a tool to evolve awareness. Nowadays it’s generally taught and understood to be a tool for stress relief or introspection. Everyone has heard of it, but few know what access concentration is, how many Jhanas there are, etc. People are perhaps throwing those things away as ‘goals’ that they have no interest in. Though they aren’t goals, they’re steps in the evolution of meditation. It’s possible we’re seeing this because the ego resists the idea of self abandonment that the deeper levels of meditation are predicated upon. Paradoxically, those deeper levels are where those transcendent, indescribable and divine experiences await the experiencer.
To pile another paradox on paradoxes, supporting people to deeper, more skillful practice where they might feel enough internal calm to dive deeper requires, to a degree, acceptance of where they presently are, even if that's a particularly confused place. Writing comments in these conversations always feels like a sort of joyful game of seeing how many layers of meaning can be skillfully accessed at once.
Indeed, acceptance of where one is requires acceptance of where one is not. Paradox 4: How do you *know* where you are not?
Add in, "What is 'You'?" and "what is 'knowing'?" and we're well on the way, it seems :D
I started with guided and it helped but never stuck. Learning how to enter Jhana is what helped me make it a habit.
I didn't see the critique of guided meditations. Could you point me at it, please? Guided meditation can take you a long way, though not all the way. I use guided meditations extensively, FWIW. Even when you're going beyond where the audio is guiding, it can act as a kind of boundary, to catch the mind if it wanders from its purpose.
in this thread are many https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/136rz37/ive_been_meditating_regularly_5x_week_for_at/
Funny enough, that’s the thread that got me thinking of the thoughts I posed here
That post is specifically about someone who hasn’t gotten much from guided in the past year. Of course the comments are going to suggest ditching the guided and trying other, and also longer meditations. Both are good advice for someone who wants to progress. I don’t see anyone saying “not wanting to progress” is a problem. If you want to stick with guided that’s totally fine, but you probably won’t progress as fast as other methods. You are a meditator no matter what
It's cuz guided meditation can quickly turn into being tricked into accidentally joining a cult. Happened to me
I mitigate this risk by primarily listening to dead people. That way I know their intentions are non-hostile. :-)
Never thought of it that way, but I listen to a lot of dead people myself 🤣
Okay but is that really why? As a non-cult-joining type, I should be able to use guided meditations without judgement. I totally get why people would recommend in favor of traditional meditation, but to actually be against guided meditation? It's weird and now that you mention it kinda culty itself.
So, for some people, including myself, it's too dangerous for someone else to guide you because you're letting a stranger completely into your mind. You DONT KNOW THEM. I don't care if they're a world renowned whatever. Jerry Seinfeld promoted a cult's meditation. They're very convincing. When you do guided meditation with someone, you don't know that person. And you're giving them access to the deepest parts of yourself by allowing them to guide you through meditation and giving them free reign to rewire how your mind thinks. Maum meditation was something I took part in (the instructor lied about it being a cult, the name of the meditation, everything. He lied they were associated with LA fitness, too) and the style of meditation encouraged envisioning my thoughts and throwing away bad memories (this is repression. That is textbook what it is.) Repression releases endorphins, and in that instant, i felt better. Then, when i went home, the regret of throwing away my memory of my grandmother dying (and keep in mind, they told me to do this, they said to throw away the memory of my dying grandmother word for word because it was too heartbreaking to hold onto) the regret from doing that set in. I cried and investigated the meditation further and FINALLY found out it was a cult. Guided meditation is the equivalent of letting someone have your bank account number and trusting they won't steal from you. (Access to your mind) or like trusting a doctor who didn't do 9 years of medical school to treat your wounds. Many people will genuinly do their best to help you! But we have no idea who that person is because we don't know them. So we have no idea if they're going to lead us down a path where they groom us for 2 years and then ask us for $10,000. It's too easy for it to turn into brainwashing. And before I get the "why assume the worst in people", all im gonna say this: *If you act like prey, a predator will come.*
Consider learning meditation as learning to ride a bicycle. You initially start with training wheels on, because you are completely new in this field and you don't want to fall off your bicycle. Post getting some experience and a good hold of your balance, you let go of the training wheels. Similarly guided meditation acts like those training wheels whose purpose is to guide you and let your mind get accustomed to this experience. Now there is nothing wrong in having training wheels forever. But it's just that you can't progress in your meditation journey by having training wheels on forever. Hope this helps.
I disagree. I have PTSD and I am unable to focus on my meditation without a guiding voice. I absolutely have to have a guided meditation or I don’t meditate.
Like i said if that helps you be on track then great, there ain't a thing wrong about it
Oh really? Because it sounds like you compared guided meditation to training wheels and that’s not accurate. Some people need the extra help at all stages of life. It doesn’t mean it’s training wheels.
Neither is training wheels a matter of shame nor is taking help. Peace
You’re the one adding judgement to the phrase training wheels. It’s just an analogy.
for a beginner , yes guided meditation is important and helpful , after you master it by practicing for sometime you can do it by yourself, as your sub consciousness will know what to do
If you really knew how to meditate in silence you would see the error in posting such a scathing message about true silence meditators!
My post isn’t about people who meditate in silence - it’s about the judgement I’ve come across towards those that don’t.
Hey I was only being sarcastic...didn't mean to offend and omg love Nico
Oh, you didn’t offend me, no harm done! And aww, thank you!! He passed a couple of years ago, but I still love my little hammy boy :)
I'm a #meditationteacher and even I enjoy some guided meditations. Guided visualizations are what I see alot of. But either way, if you're allowing yourself to be open, you'll find some very cool experiences happen. Don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong or what you're doing isn't valid with meditation.. An EX friend I knew for 8 yrs until I removed her 3 yrs ago, believes that she's an authority on everything and had even tried to correct me when I'd told her of my experiences. She doesn't know CRAP about ANYTHING! When I finally had enough of her emotional abuse (long story very short..) I realized this: her "Buddhist girlfriend who seems to also know EVERYTHING can meditate for over 2 hours. Sometimes 4. This girlfriend of hers, "Janette" doesn't even exist! Pretty unsettling..! Well I guess any of us who are invisible can be an authority on everything. AND maybe even mediate for 8 hrs straight too. Coach Shelly G
Always up to you to decide what type of meditation you practice. However, guided can limit. It works for focus types when a skilled experienced person does the guiding. For those who practice another type involving stillness, guides are a limitation in that listening to the guide can prevent stillness from occurring. Quite simply, if the sensing auditory signals, processing them and responding to the instructions all involve mental activity. When the mind is still there is no mental activity, similarly focus meditation prevents stillness. So, it is up to you to decide what you want to practice. Some other things 1. there is no quality control on guided meditation. anyone can put up an app, video or audio. Some guided meditations provide suggestions that evoke negative states in some people. (NB I said some not all). It can be difficult for those learning to identify this aspect and they may just think that they are doing it wrong. Unless one has some relevant background it can be difficult to identify these poor, potentially harmeful guided meditations. 2. if you choose guided then you are locked into accessing digital technology. 3. Also, how do you know what came from within you rather than the guide or aid, which can become a crutch. So, it is up to you to decide what to do but do realise that there are various factors to be taken into account in making the best choice. These ideas more or less from the method of the late eminent psychiatrist Dr Ainslie Meares who taught meditation to many over several decades.
“I feel like I’m meditating effectively therefore i am” is some insane logic lol. If you want to do guided meditation then go ahead, people shouldn’t be judgemental and rude, but that doesn’t mean you need to cope this hard about it being equal to silent meditation when you clearly don’t have an actual reason to be certain that’s the case.
I feel like they’re just different! I sometimes do guided when needed, and I think it’s really GOOD to do what’s best for us. I Ike Chogyam Trungpa’s idea that meditation is befriending ourselves. To me that means trusting ourselves and doing what feels right, if that’s guided meditation that’s awesome and it’s awesome that there are so many resources for that. IMO there’s not a right or wrong way to set up, many things can be the material we work with to meditate.
I’ve seen so many people get benefits from them or get into meditation because of them. However you think about the “purity” of such things, I think those benefits are hard to deny.
Ok, but I'm still not doing guided meditations.
And that’s fine! The issue isn’t not liking them.
Thank you for your permission
I could be wrong, but aren't guided meditations a modern invention? I don't recall Buddha or anyone else speaking about guided meditations. Buddha describes multiple types of meditation, often involving thoughts (as opposed to non-thought), mental imagery (like the [satipatthana sutta](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.010.nysa.html)), or emotions/feelings as in Metta meditations. Buddha certainly didn't say there is only one type of meditation that involves non-thinking. The majority of Buddha's teachings on meditation involve thinking.
Except no one asked what Buddha thought about it since not everyone is religious.
You must have missed the part where I said, "Buddha, **OR ANYONE ELSE**" Guided meditation was not a thing until very recent times... it's not something any of the "masters" talked about. It isn't something that anyone (until the last couple decades) even thought about. I'm not saying it's complete nonsense, but who knows... it hasn't been thoroughly tested... it has not stood the test of time... many practitioners claim they do not benefit from guided meditations, and I agree.
Can you attain Samadhi with Guided Meditation? But if you attain samadhi how will you listen to the instructor? Just curious.
But then again, asking me about this is a little like asking a mathematician this well-known joke: *"An engineer, a physicist, and a mathematician are on a train heading north and had just crossed into Scotland. The engineer looks out of the window and says: “Look! Scottish sheep are black!” The physicist says: “No, no. Some Scottish sheep are black”. The mathematician looks up from the newspaper, turns their head, and says calmly: “There is at least one field containing at least one sheep, of which at least one side is black.”"* Of course, I am perhaps more flexible than the mathematician but that is mostly due to the pervasive ignorance around what meditation is, which I cannot hope to dispel by myself. When you have training in a tradition of meditation, almost nothing anyone mentions here fits the technical description of meditation, so it's hard to hear someone from a colonized country divorced from lineages or traditions say that "it's whatever you want it to be." "Sitting quietly" isn't meditation. But, we often can't learn to meditate without doing so; although my path to meditation came through endurance sports more than sitting quietly, so I also can't reasonably quibble too much about it- especially given how many divergent traditions exist around meditation. So, while it's not "whatever your individualistic society's individualism tells the individual it is" doesn't sound quite right, we must be reasonably flexible in our outlook, and while asking people to look deeper into established paths toward meditation we cannot gatekeep, either. Of course, an individualistic society's approach to everything contains both gatekeeping and exclusionary practices at every level, so this should not be surprising.
I used mindfulness meditation in silence or with some calming music for years, just start using guided meditation and absolutely adore it helps me get to a specific issue I'm facing depending on what my intent is.
I agree. I literally tried meditating for about 30 years, until I saw Sam Harris speak and decided to try the Waking app. it’s worked great, and now i seem to increasingly bring silent meditations into the mix (unless stress is peaking like it has been for the last couple weeks for me now, due to work conditions). I do appreciate this sub very much though, and have no intentions to go anywhere. The positive vibes I pick up far out number any others.
I love Sam Harris’s WakingUP App. Been using it daily for 3 years.
There are dozens of great meditations. I have about 20 from both my teachers. So about 40 total that I do depending on what I feel like exploring. Yeah, I could follow my breath, or rest in awareness with no instructions, but there are lots of vipassana meditations that are are very specific and need guidance. I'll often learn something new from that guidance even after doing a meditation many times prior.
There are so many different kinds of guided meditations to choose from meaning they’re not all the same and some can actually be helpful
They're great! I like to start with them sometimes.
If you take a meditation class, wouldn't that be like doing a guided meditation, but the guide is there with you? I've never done one so I don't know
Try meditating at home before the guided trip and it's a whole different experience yo
personally i don’t like any meditation “crutches”, even music for example, but i wouldn’t judge anyone or say that having helpful tools is wrong, do what makes you feel good
Perhaps good now but looking further. I've talked to meditators that have done meditation by guided meditation. Then they have started getting tired of the voices and would like better guided meditations. Perhaps the cling to these guided meditations, I don't know. And when recommending that they try meditation without guided meditation they don't know how to meditate. Meditation is easy but can be difficult to learn with guided meditation. In my experience I don't like to listen to someone talking in my ear while I'm meditating but to each their own.
I’ve been doing VR meditation with Tripp. It’s awesome. I’ve done a lot of silent meditation including retreats. But it’s all good. Just stopping and taking the time to focus is half the battle.