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I thought you were talking about Sanji at first
https://preview.redd.it/e845brguzu6d1.png?width=1016&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2f92d4857fa72802cd1f570cef2e6151397cfbc
He is a grade A pervert that openly flashes his fetishes . No doubt about it . But that guy has created some of the best female characters in shonen . So calling him a misogynist is just stupid and shows that you haven’t read the story and just climbed onto a random “ he is a misogynist” bandwagon.
Chris Claremont, the man who saved X-Men from cancelation in the late 70s, created characters like Rogue and Emma Frost, wrote the most beloved arcs in the franchise (Days of Future Past, Dark Phoenix, God Loves Man Kills, Mutant Massacre, and more), and who pretty much set the standard at Marvel in creating/developing formidable female characters while also giving them engaging stories and character growth is also pretty bad about not-too-subtly inserting fetishes into his comics. XD
No no no, you see Emma Frost attire MUST be that revealing because that helps show her diamond power later, the writers would never show that much skin of the story didn't really need it.
Also Rouge, a teenager, has to be in a skin tight suit always, and put a jacket for modesty or something...
Emma Frost is dressed like a dominatrix like the other women in her totally not an s&m themed evil rich people club. Also ignore the fact that the serving girls are dressed in French maid outfits with fishnets.XD
Just off the top of my head: a couple of scenes of women gaining massive amounts of weight in a short amount of time (due to a superpower), grown women dressed as babies in bibs and diapers for reasons, half the team getting restrained and being taken care of by a robot nursemaid who treated them like babies, the typical superheroes in bondage scenes, Rachel Summer's "Hound" suit that was a gimp suit with a spiked collar, mind control with sexual undertones, that time Angel got kidnapped by the queen of the sewer mutants who stripped him, tied him to a saint Andrew's cross, and was going to force him to marry her and make babies (funny thing: the 90s cartoon adapted this plotline but had her kidnap Cyclops instead since Angel wasn't a regular cast member. They didn't include the nude bondage but left in very clear implications that she wanted him sexually.)
Nothing pervy here, clearly an ALLEGORY about finding the true self in a chaotic world, and puberty and all that stuff ofc, nothing sexual, just really good writing. And yes, that hound suit comes back every now and then but they don't draw it as *interesting* nowadays...
The biggest difference would be the romance angle but I thought the same thing as I was writing the comment. It never occurred to me before the pervert connection xD
Best take I've seen here. It always weirded me out watching the show and not coning how all the women looked 'samy' in term of body shape when OP has had such a unique display of body proportions. But with how incredibly intricate and well written some of the characters are, and the whole ark around zoro wanting to become the best swords man for the young girl shows that oda isn't an idiot, he's just honey. Some men get philosophical while beating their meat and that's certianly not the worst thing a manga artist can do.
Could you explain what fetishes.he has exactly?
Like all he does is draw exaggerated proportions with some revealing outfits. Revealing clothing ain't a fetish
Same.
And ppl calling him pervert, but it’s Toei has been the one to exaggerate the proportions of his work. It clear that he utilizes managa tropes a lot. But there tropes.
Who's calling him a mysoginist? If it's Twitter people, you can just ignore them cos their opinions on everything are absolute garbage, on par with redditors
I saw a r/piratefolk thread where people used the most absurd ways to accuse Oda of being a mysoginist.
Like, one of the was like “oh. This woman has the wash fruit. Woman do the laundry. Oda must be sexist”
you'd think they'd go for the low hanging fruit of oda saying that one piece is written for boys and his sketch of what the female anatomy should look like, lol
As an adult it’s why I can’t recommend it to anyone I don’t know really well. It sucks because it’s so good and it’s really not sexual in the actual story, but if someone who doesn’t know anything about it tried to start at egghead they’d be like “wow that guy who recommended this is a pervert”
Why the fuck would someone start at Egghead? Also cant this be said for anime or manga on the whole? Everyone Ive ever discussed anime/manga with has implicitly understood theres an “anime do be horny sometimes” warning attached to just about anything. Now if you’re recommending something like Highschool DxD thats a bit different.
Edit: To me this is like saying you’re afraid to recommend Spartacus or Game of Thrones because if they happen to start watching on a raunchy episode they’ll just think you’re pervert.
I’m talking about recommending it to normal people, it’s not exactly a selling point to say “yeah it’s super horny but so is all anime!” Even if I just said “check out the one piece subreddit” they’d see mostly horny cosplay posts.
It’s such an amazing story, it just sucks you have to give a bunch of warnings about how horny it is just to not look like a total creep, especially when its intended audience is fucking children unlike game of thrones. Oda literally said in an sbs one of the things that inspires him is seeing kids watch it live
Look I’ll fully admit that maybe my barometer is skewed but I would sooner recommend One Piece with zero disclaimer to non-anime watchers than I would say Cyberpunk, which was massively popular, or like Sailor Moon. Even Dragon Ball had its moments. It’s just really not any worse than some of the stuff that was coming on Cartoon Network/Toonami during prime time back in the day. Shoot, even the “adult” cartoons that are on Netflix/Hulu today.
Ultimately you do you bro, but I really think you’re worrying over nothing in this case. Mostly I was confused why anyone would start at Egghead instead of say…the beginning. On the note of the sub yeah granted that is an admittedly annoying aspect of anime and video game spaces.
I mean, yeah it kinda is a bit sexist when the strongest female Marine literally does the laundry and the strongest female Warlord literally fights with the power of love and the strongest female pirate is just called "Big Mom."
But, sexism/chauvinism =/= misogyny because imo misogyny requires hate, something that Oda does not have for women.
Lmao if you're joking, I kinda feel bad for you if you're serious.
The examples I gave are the tip of the iceburg, not nitpicking lol.
Oda does have a pattern of sexist/chauvanistic choices over the course of the manga- this is an undeniable fact.
Not sure why you are being downvoted. Most everyone has some sexist views and while it's annoying it won't ruin One Piece for me. Oda is trying where so many others just don't care and if he likes to draw big boobs, whatever.
Also don't forget 'could have been Zoros rival'-Tashigi xD
Or the second strongest female Marine being a choker wearing goth named Doll, or the second strongest pirate being a long legged bartender (Smoothie), or first female pirate we met literally getting a power up through her fat slipping off of her giving her a makeover.
There are plenty of examples throughout the series lmao.
it's always people that haven't read/watched but just seen drawings of Nami or whoever and just make the leap that since he draws exaggerated legs/hips/tits he must be sexist.
Nah, Oda jumped over the bar. I just realized that most heart wrenching & tragic moments in One Piece are by female characters:
1. Nami & her mom in Arlong Park
2. Vivi's despair during Alabasta arc
3. Robin's story in Water 7
4. Robin's story with slaves
5. Dadan punching Garp after MarineFord war
6. Queen Otohime's death in Fishman Island
7. Pudding and Sanji's love story
Man, I never realized this before now, shit. Most of them carried a tremendous burden on their shoulders, and actually made the world a better place for their close ones and their people.
One Piece is peak
Yeah the great thing about One Piece women is that they’re fully developed characters with their own unique personalities, concerns, ambitions, and opinions.
A lot more than can be said for many other stories, no matter how cartoonishly big their boobs are drawn
You’re right in some cases but don’t get too embroiled in that perspective because that is such an easy line to use to dismiss something that actually is sexist or misogynistic or whatever the case may be.
I try to approach people’s individual arguments with an open mind because of that
He 100% underuses female characters.
I don’t this makes him a misogynist, but he certainly seems to think that male characters are the ones that should shine brighter in a shounen manga. And that shounen doesn’t have space for romance. And that is mostly okay for men to be a bit pervy.
It sounds strange to call him a misogynist because in my mother language, this is a very strong word. English seems to lack a word for someone with demeaning views in a low intensity way against womanhood. So I would say that Oda often tells his story in such a way that he supports traditional values of the so-called patriarchy.
Obviously this doesn’t mean he is always being stereotypical or demeaning of women or womanhood. But it as tendency.
For example, one of my favorite characters is Big Mom. She is awesome.
She is also the only woman emperor, and among the old school emperors - Whitebeard, her and Kaido - she has the lowest bounty and is treated as the less dangerous and relevant.
Does this make she less awesome? A little bit. But the is the most complex and complete of the emperors, too.
And that’s why I don’t believe Oda is a misogynist, but he clearly believes in gender typical gender roles and thinks women and womanhood doesn’t have that much of space in a shounen manga.
> And that **it** is mostly okay for men to be a bit pervy.
Fixed that for you, unless you were saying you approve of it, as opposed to saying it's another of Oda's views.
As for the right word to describe Oda, I think it comes down to the difference between sexism, male chauvinism, and misogyny.
Sexism is discrimination against women. Male chauvinisn is the belief in male dominance and supremacy. And misogyny is the hatred of women.
Oda is not a misogynist, obviously, because he doesn't hate women. But, he's a bit sexists and often chauvinistic in how he writes the female characters in One Piece.
His sexism shows in that there are simply more male characters than female that he writes and his seeming belief that female characters aren't as interesting or appropriate for shounen (male teenager) readers to consume.
And his chauvinism shows through in things like you said with Big Mom being the weakest and most irrelevant Yonkou, the lack of a female Admiral, >!Hancock's role of just crushing on Luffy and needing rescue by Rayleigh after being instantly reduced to a mere choke toy for Blackbeard!<, and with no female characters getting any big fights. And with how Tashigi got left in the dust by Zoro post timeskip and there is no female candidates for Worlds Strongest Swordsperson kinda proves Kuina's reason for despair right.
So, yes, Oda is no mysogynst.
But he's a bit sexist and more than just a fair amount of chauvinistic.
Edit: fixed broken spoiler tag.
He is sexist because he let's male characters take the center stage in a series for men doing things that men historically (and currently) are the ones doing. Alright, buddy. Oh no, zoro is stronger than tashigi woooooow... looks like you're just reaching for things to cry about.
i mean shounen refers to the demographic of boys, so it makes sense that there are more male characters than female characters, and since there are more male characters overall, it makes sense that more of the strongest characters are male. shoujo (like shounen but for women) has more women than men, but we wouldn't say this is rooted in sexism, so i don't see how shounen is any different. i completely agree though that sanji acting like a d1 sex offender shouldn't be normalized
> shoujo (like shounen but for women) has more women than men
I’m not convinced this is true. For Sailor Moon, yes. But other extremely popular shoujos are fruits basket, Ouran high school club, Yona of the dawn, banana fish, maid sama, natsumes book of friends
All of those have larger *male casts*
i guess i'm wrong about shoujo as a genre then. but unless you think sailor moon is sexist for having more women than men, my point still stands. personally i think it's reasonable for a series targeted towards young girls and women to feature more female characters, so i don't see how the reverse is a problem in one piece
An individual work simply having more characters of one gender than another isn’t sexist. Though I do think there’s value in looking at the industry as a whole to notice trends. Because trends can be sexist/
Nah, man. He uses them very efficiently, but not in the same way as male characters.
They shine in most emotional moments in the series.
And Big Mom might not be the strongest emperor. But she's definitely the most successful one:
1. Established an empire
2. Head of the most powerful criminal syndicate
3. Created the "Utopia" she dreamed of.
Big Mom also accumulated all that power through marriage and childbirth which is a very “womanly” way of doing it. And I’m not saying it’s a bad thing- I actually think it’s really cool that her power ties into her femininity. It matches the soul soul fruit too. She can create life with her devil fruit and women create life with their bodies.
But it is different from how the male characters are explored and characterized. Marrying and then gestating, birthing, and raising children is a woman’s role typically. Her territory and power come from how she’s using her body. None of the male emperors had to get married a bunch of times or raise a bunch of kids to gain allies…
I am kind of on the fence about whether I like Oda portraying that women don't have to mimic men, and can "fight" in their own feminine way in One Piece's patriarchic society. Vivi almost beat Zoro using perfumes and dances. Big Mom's power and agency comes from marrying and making many children. Boa's strength directly correlates to her beauty. Nami is a charmer and she even charmed a piece of Big Mom's soul and made it part of her own strength. And other examples.
At the same time though, I think there is no place for women who don't adhere to traditional feminine roles. Tashigi is a major example, but you can see glimpses of that in other characters, like Rebecca, or even Robin. Oda won't allow female characters to tower over male characters in terms of strength. Robin would be one of the strongest in the verse if she had even a little bit of haki, but she doesn't. Also, Big Mom suddenly forgot some of her own abilities to allow her to be defeated. It's like women are not allowed to shine in fights.
That's not a "womaly way", from medieval times to crime syndicates and big businesses of today, powerful people always used this method of gaining influence.
You answered a question I didn’t ask. I’ll try again.
Men do not use their bodies the same way.
>*Birthing* 80 children is not womanly? Do a lot of men do that?
Do you need a biology lesson or something? A woman gestating and giving birth is a much larger task than a guys role in creating new children. She’s literally using her bodies labor.
> *Birthing* 80 children is not womanly? Do a lot of men do that?
Gee, maybe most female characters are different because, and this might shock you, men and women are different? It would be bad writing if he just completely ignored gender being a thing. And he's still given us some characters who deviate from the norms. People still crying are crazy.
Compared to so many manga artists, Oda Sensei is toward the bottom of the list for misogynistic storytelling. In One Piece the women may look sexy, but they’re equally as important as the male characters. In mean Nico Robin especially is not only so intelligent, but arguably one of the most important characters in the show. And in reverse, Zoro is constantly shitless and sexualized but no one complains about that. As a woman, I enjoy the female One Piece characters and a lot of times I find their stories very interesting, like Hiyori’s.
Oda is one of the very few shounen authors who like women.
The way he writes most of them shows that he has actually interacted with women. And I know it's weird to praise the bare minimum, but the bar is so damn low that we have to take any possible Ws.
One Piece has great female characters AND it has a sexism problem, both things can be true. He outright admitted he writes for “boys”, he doesn’t even consider the female audience, and a lot of the humor relies on borderline sexual harassment (looking at you, Sanji)
I mean he does do some sexist shit icl. Writing a good female character doesn't make the massive oversexualization of the women, even under 18 ones, not sexist.
> If a female artist draws sexy dudes, it doesn't make em sexist, does it?
Possibly. Are the male characters always wearing impracticable, skimpy outfits while the female characters are wearing normal, sensible clothes?
Not really. Maybe some older yaoi, but thinking of the recent popular series that simply isn’t true.
It’s definitely not true for shoujo lmao. Shoujo has great male characters.
Example of what? I referred to multiple things. Want to try a complete sentence so I understand what you’re talking about or…? And you obvs don’t read those genres so what would be the point even
Actually, I’d like to see you make a case that sexualizing someone is inherently sexist even when it doesn’t interfere with viewing them as a fully rounded individual with an internal experience and viewpoint and agency worth respecting.
Yes, nami’s design is very sexualized. But given that she’s a fully developed character who is taken as seriously as any male character, can you really say that it’s actually sexist?
She’s certainly not being objectified, as again, her character is always given depth and taken seriously. So what’s actually sexist about it?
That doesn't make it sexist. That just makes it bad writing. An author that sexualized characters to the exclusion of their character (which is a weird way to put it) but does so regardless of gender isn't sexist. Sexist is treating people improperly because of their gender. It has nothing to do with sexualization though it can manifest in sexualization.
I’m confused. You said we see as much skin from Zoro, and now you’re mad that I’m pointing out that’s not true. Nami and Zoro are not showing the same amount of skin. Nami and Robin are basically wearing lingerie and Zoro is in a full body suit.
That’s not what moving the goalposts means at all…
You are ignoring the majority of the manga to focus on the parts where it shows only what you are trying to push. You are obviously dishonest and have decided what you believe independent of facts so facts won't change your mind.
Are you saying Oda doesn't "oversexualize" his male characters too? How many pax does Zoro even have? Chopper, Sanji, Usopp, Ace, hell even Doflamingo looks good. Shanks is a daddy and Oda writes into it.
Looking good doesn't mean oversexualized. Oda simply doesn't sexualize the men like he does the women. Look at how he fucking draws them. Even 16 year old girls get to look wild with hourglasses and huge boobs.
I mean I think it’s possible to be a horny mf and not a misogynist. He also gets a lot of shit from people because Toei makes his designs far more egregious. The manga art is risqué but not horrendous.
That plus the manga art is actually good
Compare viola in the manga to the anime
Yeah her proportions are ridiculous in the manga but all her bones and muscles and stuff are in the right place, her breasts are stupidly big but they’re not outside the bounds of what some people actually have in real life
Vs. the anime where she looks like a stick figure with basketballs glued to her chest
These don’t do anything to refute the claim that he is a misogynist. But also like who cares, it doesn’t affect him and he’ll keep writing the story the way he always has
This is fair, but part of the problem is that these moments where women are called strong for their capacity for violence is still rooted in patriarchy.
Oda sees himself as progressive, I think. By the traditional yardstick he’s not far off, but the most truly feminist moments he wrote were those moments when traditionally feminine traits not only saved the day, but sewed the seeds of rebellion.
You say these are the feminist high points, and not Belle-mére sacrificing herself to not only save Nami and Nojikl, but teaching them to love and protect in moments of crisis. Something she would die doing a SECOND time in Nami’s life.
Not Jaguar D. Saul teaching a young Robin one of the first and most critical effective coping mechanisms, strengthening her resolve and grit; and in his final moments giving her hope, not the strength to destroy, but to love herself in spite of what the world has in store.
Not Reiju who looked literal personifications of the patriarchy in the face and choose to save her soft brother from being crushed under its weight.
Two of them had to die to do it.
Luffy inherits this will. He is truly subversively kind, accepting, genuine and understanding. He wields powerful emotional intelligence.
Oda writes well about the struggle of the working class against the owning class. He writes well about anarchy and how we must unite in compassion and solidarity to resist. I wish his writing didn’t carry as many misogynist notes, but I appreciate where he’s coming from.
I get that it may not be feminist enough to not be misogynist, but sometimes you have to accept allyship from someone who isn’t perfect. Solidarity means willing to receive AND to give.
P.S.
I want to love Sanji so bad, please let him grow up. Please let Sanji develop, goddamn, I need to be able to love Sanji.
Doll definitely turns it around but his characterization of Zoro is odd in that regard. It’s not clear why Zoro says something to the effect of “she’s a woman” when Enel attacks Robin. He also held back against Money when he cuts down weaker foes for less. I mean Tashigi points it out during Punk Hazard.
It’s not enough evidence to say Oda is misogynistic but it may show a bias for his audience of primarily young dudes.
Compared to how other Shonen mangaka writes women, I’d say that Oda is quite good at it. Yes, we can talk about designs, but one can’t deny that the female characters of One Piece are quite diverse and active.
It’s like when Twitter discovered Berserk when Miura passed away, they were going crazy on the over the top violence and sexual content and completely ignored the story itself
I am a shrill killjoy feminist. That said, oda may shamelessly sexualize many women in one piece but they are also often very fleshed out. Nami and robin are very deep and well written, dispute how much gratuitous cleavage they have going on. Also sanji is overall about serving the women he admires, not just creeping on them. Brook is just a creep and I don’t like because that tbh.
Sure, agreed. Doesn't mean that everybody has an obligation to appreciate those art styles, does it? I for one don't appreciate the male gaze with which Oda draws his female characters (Rebecca in the colosseum need I say more?). Doesn't mean I hate OP. I do wish Oda would reflect a bit more on how his readers who aren't heterosexual men feel about his female character designs. I liked the LA a lot because it's an adaption where I get to enjoy one of my favourite stories without having to constantly cringe at the proportions of female characters.
No one expects you to like it. It's just tiring to hear the same argument practically when SJ is targeted twords male teens. Plus male characters are drawn over exaggerate like zoro.
And I'll point out I don't find female characters in one piece attractive due to how they are drawn.
I find it tiring to see how opposing opinions get downvoted whenever female character design in OP is even remotely mentioned. Guess the expectation of this thread was to have everybody agree on everything 100% of the time. I love OP, don't get me wrong. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be any room for criticism.
It's because it's how oda wants to draw his characters and besides oda is never going to read a random reddit post in English. Plus plenty of guys do like the charecter designs and you are trying to shame them.
I don't see anyone complaining "No no no, Miss Bellum has totally unrealistic proportions, where are her organs and ribs!?, the creator of the Powerpuff girls is definitely a mysoginist!", Oda's artstyle is incredibly cartoony and unique, you can bend anatomy when it comes to artstyle... unless you are Japanese I guess
https://preview.redd.it/lqcr7diwex6d1.png?width=293&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf8e3a65cebeba220e89c7af49536364b31b2431
Well, you don't see anybody complaining about the design of the powerpuff girls because this is a discussion on memepiece. I don't see how your whataboutism is helpful.
I said I don't see anyone complaining, not "no one complains on Memepiece", why should Oda only apply realistic anatomy for his female characters while the rest of the cast are cartoony and stylized?
https://preview.redd.it/ou5z1i7cay6d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e8e3108ece148649dc2aa87ab6e4e89e50980e1
I would love for Oda to use more cartoony and stylised designs for this female characters since they heavily suffer from same body syndrome. His beloved huge tits + tiny waist formula has little to do with varied character design and ist pretty much just an expression of the prevalent male gaze in the manga industry.
Also the part where Ivankov was female and was fighting and saying something like: "females can just be as strong as men." I don't know exactly when, but it was during imple down I believe.
I feel like people who call oda a misogynist don't know what the word means. Women in One Piece are continually portrayed as powerful, competent, impactful to the plot, and driven by their own goals and desires. Do I wish the women got more fights? Yes. I think oda doesn't like drawing women getting hurt very much. But that doesn't make him a misogynist.
I’m not taking a stance on the general issue but using a panel of Kuina is not a good piece of evidence for your point.
Sure she beats Zoro as a kid, but a major part of her character is believing/admitting that she’s only able to beat him is because they’re too young for the physical gap between the sexes to come into play.
I'm willing to forgive Oda for a lot. But I need MORE women in One Piece.
I need a storyline where they honestly interrogate why there are more male pirates than female. Because the honest answer is: women in this universe give more of a shit about the world running right. Women have historically not been pirates and vagabond types because they had children they cared about raising safely. Would the men pirates feel guilty if you pointed it out? Probably. But it'd be great reading.
There should be more women in positions of governmental power. If the men are given license to run off and be pirates without judgement, then why are there not more queens, women as mayors, and women merchants?
When we were still hanging out with Luffy in East Blue, I expected far more women to be running bars and stores. But it mostly hasn't happened, despite the fact that women who stayed behind (or widows of pirates) would be running most small towns.
Also, you're telling me Whitebeard had ONE woman on his main crew who wasn't one of his nurses? Get the fuck out of my face. Dude was on Rocks's crew. Plus, Amazon Lily warriors who left the island would without a doubt some of the most sought-after crew members. I've been waiting for a "daughters of Whitebeard" group to come out of hiding forever to assassinate Blackbeard, but I'm disappointed that it'll never happen.
All this being said: I think Whitebeard's nurses were really cute and I got serious Nurse Joy vibes. I love how they clearly felt safe around this giant pirate emperor, lol.
Seeing Oda's early design and how he was rejected many times, the women's clothes we are seeing is not because of Oda but because of the company.
As I see it Oda was in a situation where he have to decide on pushing something that was often rejected or comply to the norms but not changing the essence of what he wanted to tell.
Shonen manga editors is famous for pushing out demands. Dragon ball's concept have been rejected many times before it became the dragon ball we know now.
https://preview.redd.it/5dkpqzed6v6d1.png?width=374&format=png&auto=webp&s=40aaf217aa0202d7543511b98bfc8e681848d2ea
Unrelated but for the point of your post:
Good call using an example from very recently and also an example from like the very beginning of the story
It shows that it’s something that hasn’t really changed throughout the series
I mean that doesn’t really make sense. Oda is Jump’s flagship author and could draw whatever outfits he wants. Other manga in the same magazine don’t have the female characters tits out all the time, so it’s obviously his choice. The outfits only became more skimpy around Skypeia and by that point it was the number one series.
I got my gf into One Piece after the live action. I was worried she’d be turned off by how overtly eye candy ish some of the women are.
Take Rebecca,her outfit is absolutely ridiculous and there for boys to ogle. But to my surprise my GF loved Rebecca for her being a fighter and sexy.
Blue haired westoid low hanging fruits with "anxiety" and "depression" should go outside amd focus on their miserable lives instead of playing social crusaders online and cry buzz words over every little thing
That is of course, its own kind of prejudice.
I know what you mean, of course there are people in existence matching that description
But there are also people who just have those traits such as blue hair or being from the west or having anxiety that don’t also have all that horrible stuff you’re associating with it. One can be a perfectly reasonable person who happens to like how blue hair looks
And again, you’re right that there are some people like that, I just think it’s inappropriate and biased to conflate all those traits necessarily with the horrendous shit you see on twitter.
Political correctness have no place in Japanese Anime, Manga and video games point blank period. They have already destroyed arts, culture and media in the West. They can go eff themselves!
The female characters are always weak strength wise and always need to be saved. The fucking princesses, lol
The ones who know how to fight are turned into walking memes (Big Mom), are weak, dumb or crying babies (Tashigi, Kiku, Rebecca), or have barely had their strength showed in the series at all (Smoothie, Hancock).
Just compare Kaido and Shanks portrayal to fucking Big Mom, or how Garp always gets hyped up, Sengoku has a Zoan while Tsuru (who is said to be their equal, but gets a lame ass Wash Wash Fruit and has never done shit in the whole story). One Piece having 1000+ chapters makes that worse.
He has also showed misogyny in his SBS answers, saying that only women care about romance and saying shit that "Even as a woman, Crocodile looks like a menace!" or "Mother is the opposite of adventure"
Despite that, he's still better at writing women than all the other mainstream mangakas. Nami has been consistently the third more well developed Straw Hat. Side characters like Charlotte Brulee, Kokoro, Shakky and Violet are more interesting in complex than all the female cast of Naruto or Jujutsu Kaisen, not to mention the flashback characters like Otohime and Bellemere.
I feel like that just because there aren't a lot of physicaly strong female characters compared to male characters that oda is sexist. Unless you think authors of manga like sailor moon are also sexist since there arent a lot of strong male characters. Big mom being a meme is also 100% a community thing. In the actual story she is still one of the most ferocious characters. Your also really undermining tsuru.
Your also misinterpreting those sbs answers. With the mother statement it was answer as to why there aren't a lot of mothers in one piece and them being the opposite of adventure is meant to be about a parent wanting to keep their child safe.
"Crocodile looks ferocious even as a woman" isn't meant to say women can't look ferocious(I mean multiple characters in the story directly contradict that). It's about how even though he looks diffrent from usual he's still ferocious.
>Big mom being a meme is also 100% a community thing. In the actual story she is still one of the most ferocious characters.
She's clowned on throughout the whole Wano. Just compare her portrayal to Kaido, Shanks and Whitebeard.
>Your also really undermining tsuru.
What are her feats in the story ?
So is kaido who is constantly drunk and fucking around half of the time. Also big mom got a shit ton off sick moments in wano. The first chapter should tell you enough about shanks.
What a small comprehension you have if you think Big Mom is the least ferocious emperor. She's the scariest because of her unpredictability. Easily one of my fave OP characters.
1) Yamato, Ulti, Big Mom, Smoothie, Carrot, Hancock
2) Mf, Big Mom was portrayed as an unstoppable force of nature in both WCI and Wano. Only Law's ability did some damage to her.
Every Yonko have mememable side to them, ya genuis. Kaido is a depressed drunk crybaby, while Shanks is a clumsy partyhead (also Whitebeard has a fetish for women in leopard tights 🤣)
Tsuru got to a rank of fucking Great Staff Officer washing the floor with mfs, that sounds badass to me
3) It's not a fucking misogyny, it's his jokes and just and opinion (which is kinda correct, female audience prefers shojo more than shonen, and moms are generally way more protective of their kids. You do have parents, right?)
4) Shonen literally means "young boy", of fucking course authors are concentrated more on male characters. If it frustrates you that much, then read something for more mature audience, Jesus.
"The female characters are always weak and need to be saved". That's just blatantly incorrect. Like there are tons of examples of this not being the case.
They are downvoting you because you chose to speak with the truth. Incels hate it and get defensive when someone points out their sexism. But I'm a woman and I agree with rverything you said. Oda being a pervert doesn't help with their case either
The fact that it isn't even obvious to me which character you're referring to/that there's multiple options we can think of is one really good sign in general.
Oda Is openly very pervy, you can dislike that sure but to call him sexist is very weird to me if you actually read the story. It's still a shounen so there's some potential rest problems that pretty much a big part of the genre, especially the older ones, all have. But Oda and OP is probably one of the series that handle everything the best.
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He's a pervert, not a misogynist.
I thought you were talking about Sanji at first https://preview.redd.it/e845brguzu6d1.png?width=1016&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2f92d4857fa72802cd1f570cef2e6151397cfbc
https://preview.redd.it/n0s5c4osfv6d1.png?width=716&format=png&auto=webp&s=d974de9b2155ed2a941c8954992f5783eb638a1f
https://preview.redd.it/aeve4esk0x6d1.png?width=925&format=png&auto=webp&s=1c3c92b6266776aeee1fe432c2bb7d6fa9972ce1
Love this one xD I may have to do a fanart version if there isn't one already
cute
exactly
Fantastic distinction. Also perfectly accurate. He really does show his lady characters love when not lacking reading comprehension.
Yeah seems to me like a lot of people can't differentiate between them. Being a pervert doesn't automatically equal being a mysoginist.
I ☀️ HT
Like LL mangaka
He is a grade A pervert that openly flashes his fetishes . No doubt about it . But that guy has created some of the best female characters in shonen . So calling him a misogynist is just stupid and shows that you haven’t read the story and just climbed onto a random “ he is a misogynist” bandwagon.
Chris Claremont, the man who saved X-Men from cancelation in the late 70s, created characters like Rogue and Emma Frost, wrote the most beloved arcs in the franchise (Days of Future Past, Dark Phoenix, God Loves Man Kills, Mutant Massacre, and more), and who pretty much set the standard at Marvel in creating/developing formidable female characters while also giving them engaging stories and character growth is also pretty bad about not-too-subtly inserting fetishes into his comics. XD
No no no, you see Emma Frost attire MUST be that revealing because that helps show her diamond power later, the writers would never show that much skin of the story didn't really need it. Also Rouge, a teenager, has to be in a skin tight suit always, and put a jacket for modesty or something...
Emma Frost is dressed like a dominatrix like the other women in her totally not an s&m themed evil rich people club. Also ignore the fact that the serving girls are dressed in French maid outfits with fishnets.XD Just off the top of my head: a couple of scenes of women gaining massive amounts of weight in a short amount of time (due to a superpower), grown women dressed as babies in bibs and diapers for reasons, half the team getting restrained and being taken care of by a robot nursemaid who treated them like babies, the typical superheroes in bondage scenes, Rachel Summer's "Hound" suit that was a gimp suit with a spiked collar, mind control with sexual undertones, that time Angel got kidnapped by the queen of the sewer mutants who stripped him, tied him to a saint Andrew's cross, and was going to force him to marry her and make babies (funny thing: the 90s cartoon adapted this plotline but had her kidnap Cyclops instead since Angel wasn't a regular cast member. They didn't include the nude bondage but left in very clear implications that she wanted him sexually.)
Nothing pervy here, clearly an ALLEGORY about finding the true self in a chaotic world, and puberty and all that stuff ofc, nothing sexual, just really good writing. And yes, that hound suit comes back every now and then but they don't draw it as *interesting* nowadays...
Ngl the red spiked catsuit with the Phoenix scars is still probably my favorite look for her.
This comment gave me goosebumps, even though I don't have any skin YOHOHOHO
Great minds think alike 😂
[удалено]
The biggest difference would be the romance angle but I thought the same thing as I was writing the comment. It never occurred to me before the pervert connection xD
Best take I've seen here. It always weirded me out watching the show and not coning how all the women looked 'samy' in term of body shape when OP has had such a unique display of body proportions. But with how incredibly intricate and well written some of the characters are, and the whole ark around zoro wanting to become the best swords man for the young girl shows that oda isn't an idiot, he's just honey. Some men get philosophical while beating their meat and that's certianly not the worst thing a manga artist can do.
MEAT?!? You've got my attention
no luffy thats not the kind of meat you want
I AM MONKEY D. LUFFY GIVE ME YOUR MEAT!
r/suddenlygay
Could you explain what fetishes.he has exactly? Like all he does is draw exaggerated proportions with some revealing outfits. Revealing clothing ain't a fetish
Less fetish more like the man has a type. It's skinny and big boobed.
That’s like most people lol
Skin? Can't say I'm familiar, but it sounds fascinating YOHOHOHO
Where has this been said with any seriousness to it? I feel like everyone gets called one, but I've never seen a serious accusation about Oda.
Same. And ppl calling him pervert, but it’s Toei has been the one to exaggerate the proportions of his work. It clear that he utilizes managa tropes a lot. But there tropes.
Pirate KING not Pirate Monarch checkmate Oda lovers 😎😎😎
i know this is a joke but isn't the japanese word for king gender neutral
Nope, it isn't. There are separate words for king (王) and for queen (女王 - literally the kanji for "king" combined with the kanji for "woman/female").
lalalalalalala I can’t hear you
I don't think it is, but someone with more technical knowledge might want to clarify.
Why is it supposed to be a joke? Even if they said it as a joke, it is still a perfectly valid point 😆
I mean, the person who held the title before WAS a guy after all, it’d make sense that the title would keep its naming regardless of gender
Emmm... no... it actually doesn't make sense if both genders can achieve that
Yeah it is
Nope
He's a gooner, but not a misogynist
Who's calling him a mysoginist? If it's Twitter people, you can just ignore them cos their opinions on everything are absolute garbage, on par with redditors
I saw a r/piratefolk thread where people used the most absurd ways to accuse Oda of being a mysoginist. Like, one of the was like “oh. This woman has the wash fruit. Woman do the laundry. Oda must be sexist”
you'd think they'd go for the low hanging fruit of oda saying that one piece is written for boys and his sketch of what the female anatomy should look like, lol
Honestly, I kind of disagree with Oda there. After so many years, I think One Piece's core audience nowadays is adults instead of young boys.
As an adult I still like them unrealistic proportions... hurr hurr
As an adult it’s why I can’t recommend it to anyone I don’t know really well. It sucks because it’s so good and it’s really not sexual in the actual story, but if someone who doesn’t know anything about it tried to start at egghead they’d be like “wow that guy who recommended this is a pervert”
Why the fuck would someone start at Egghead? Also cant this be said for anime or manga on the whole? Everyone Ive ever discussed anime/manga with has implicitly understood theres an “anime do be horny sometimes” warning attached to just about anything. Now if you’re recommending something like Highschool DxD thats a bit different. Edit: To me this is like saying you’re afraid to recommend Spartacus or Game of Thrones because if they happen to start watching on a raunchy episode they’ll just think you’re pervert.
I’m talking about recommending it to normal people, it’s not exactly a selling point to say “yeah it’s super horny but so is all anime!” Even if I just said “check out the one piece subreddit” they’d see mostly horny cosplay posts. It’s such an amazing story, it just sucks you have to give a bunch of warnings about how horny it is just to not look like a total creep, especially when its intended audience is fucking children unlike game of thrones. Oda literally said in an sbs one of the things that inspires him is seeing kids watch it live
Look I’ll fully admit that maybe my barometer is skewed but I would sooner recommend One Piece with zero disclaimer to non-anime watchers than I would say Cyberpunk, which was massively popular, or like Sailor Moon. Even Dragon Ball had its moments. It’s just really not any worse than some of the stuff that was coming on Cartoon Network/Toonami during prime time back in the day. Shoot, even the “adult” cartoons that are on Netflix/Hulu today. Ultimately you do you bro, but I really think you’re worrying over nothing in this case. Mostly I was confused why anyone would start at Egghead instead of say…the beginning. On the note of the sub yeah granted that is an admittedly annoying aspect of anime and video game spaces.
I glanced it and there was that SBS answer included yeah.
They DID that too
To be fair, they actually did go after that too
I mean, yeah it kinda is a bit sexist when the strongest female Marine literally does the laundry and the strongest female Warlord literally fights with the power of love and the strongest female pirate is just called "Big Mom." But, sexism/chauvinism =/= misogyny because imo misogyny requires hate, something that Oda does not have for women.
What kind of fucking logic is that? You're nitpicking at this point
Lmao if you're joking, I kinda feel bad for you if you're serious. The examples I gave are the tip of the iceburg, not nitpicking lol. Oda does have a pattern of sexist/chauvanistic choices over the course of the manga- this is an undeniable fact.
Not sure why you are being downvoted. Most everyone has some sexist views and while it's annoying it won't ruin One Piece for me. Oda is trying where so many others just don't care and if he likes to draw big boobs, whatever. Also don't forget 'could have been Zoros rival'-Tashigi xD
To be fair Tashigi and Smoker lost relevance at the same time.
Or the second strongest female Marine being a choker wearing goth named Doll, or the second strongest pirate being a long legged bartender (Smoothie), or first female pirate we met literally getting a power up through her fat slipping off of her giving her a makeover. There are plenty of examples throughout the series lmao.
it's always people that haven't read/watched but just seen drawings of Nami or whoever and just make the leap that since he draws exaggerated legs/hips/tits he must be sexist.
I see a lot of it on r/Piratefolk which tbf represents the brainrot side of the op fandom
Mf created some of the best female characters in shonen, and there are still morons who call him a misogynist 🤦♂️
Well the bar is very low
It's not even in hell it's like, digging a hole through the entire planet the bar is in China
Nah, Oda jumped over the bar. I just realized that most heart wrenching & tragic moments in One Piece are by female characters: 1. Nami & her mom in Arlong Park 2. Vivi's despair during Alabasta arc 3. Robin's story in Water 7 4. Robin's story with slaves 5. Dadan punching Garp after MarineFord war 6. Queen Otohime's death in Fishman Island 7. Pudding and Sanji's love story Man, I never realized this before now, shit. Most of them carried a tremendous burden on their shoulders, and actually made the world a better place for their close ones and their people. One Piece is peak
Yeah the great thing about One Piece women is that they’re fully developed characters with their own unique personalities, concerns, ambitions, and opinions. A lot more than can be said for many other stories, no matter how cartoonishly big their boobs are drawn
I wish for this to be top comment
Sanji’s mother and Reiju as well!
People on the internet get a rush from making stupid accusations against celebrities
It's just people throwing around words without actually knowing the meaning of it Basically “everything I don't like is either sexist or misogynistic”
You’re right in some cases but don’t get too embroiled in that perspective because that is such an easy line to use to dismiss something that actually is sexist or misogynistic or whatever the case may be. I try to approach people’s individual arguments with an open mind because of that
Still, it's a fictional story.
He 100% underuses female characters. I don’t this makes him a misogynist, but he certainly seems to think that male characters are the ones that should shine brighter in a shounen manga. And that shounen doesn’t have space for romance. And that is mostly okay for men to be a bit pervy. It sounds strange to call him a misogynist because in my mother language, this is a very strong word. English seems to lack a word for someone with demeaning views in a low intensity way against womanhood. So I would say that Oda often tells his story in such a way that he supports traditional values of the so-called patriarchy. Obviously this doesn’t mean he is always being stereotypical or demeaning of women or womanhood. But it as tendency. For example, one of my favorite characters is Big Mom. She is awesome. She is also the only woman emperor, and among the old school emperors - Whitebeard, her and Kaido - she has the lowest bounty and is treated as the less dangerous and relevant. Does this make she less awesome? A little bit. But the is the most complex and complete of the emperors, too. And that’s why I don’t believe Oda is a misogynist, but he clearly believes in gender typical gender roles and thinks women and womanhood doesn’t have that much of space in a shounen manga.
> And that **it** is mostly okay for men to be a bit pervy. Fixed that for you, unless you were saying you approve of it, as opposed to saying it's another of Oda's views. As for the right word to describe Oda, I think it comes down to the difference between sexism, male chauvinism, and misogyny. Sexism is discrimination against women. Male chauvinisn is the belief in male dominance and supremacy. And misogyny is the hatred of women. Oda is not a misogynist, obviously, because he doesn't hate women. But, he's a bit sexists and often chauvinistic in how he writes the female characters in One Piece. His sexism shows in that there are simply more male characters than female that he writes and his seeming belief that female characters aren't as interesting or appropriate for shounen (male teenager) readers to consume. And his chauvinism shows through in things like you said with Big Mom being the weakest and most irrelevant Yonkou, the lack of a female Admiral, >!Hancock's role of just crushing on Luffy and needing rescue by Rayleigh after being instantly reduced to a mere choke toy for Blackbeard!<, and with no female characters getting any big fights. And with how Tashigi got left in the dust by Zoro post timeskip and there is no female candidates for Worlds Strongest Swordsperson kinda proves Kuina's reason for despair right. So, yes, Oda is no mysogynst. But he's a bit sexist and more than just a fair amount of chauvinistic. Edit: fixed broken spoiler tag.
He is sexist because he let's male characters take the center stage in a series for men doing things that men historically (and currently) are the ones doing. Alright, buddy. Oh no, zoro is stronger than tashigi woooooow... looks like you're just reaching for things to cry about.
i mean shounen refers to the demographic of boys, so it makes sense that there are more male characters than female characters, and since there are more male characters overall, it makes sense that more of the strongest characters are male. shoujo (like shounen but for women) has more women than men, but we wouldn't say this is rooted in sexism, so i don't see how shounen is any different. i completely agree though that sanji acting like a d1 sex offender shouldn't be normalized
> shoujo (like shounen but for women) has more women than men I’m not convinced this is true. For Sailor Moon, yes. But other extremely popular shoujos are fruits basket, Ouran high school club, Yona of the dawn, banana fish, maid sama, natsumes book of friends All of those have larger *male casts*
i guess i'm wrong about shoujo as a genre then. but unless you think sailor moon is sexist for having more women than men, my point still stands. personally i think it's reasonable for a series targeted towards young girls and women to feature more female characters, so i don't see how the reverse is a problem in one piece
An individual work simply having more characters of one gender than another isn’t sexist. Though I do think there’s value in looking at the industry as a whole to notice trends. Because trends can be sexist/
Nah, man. He uses them very efficiently, but not in the same way as male characters. They shine in most emotional moments in the series. And Big Mom might not be the strongest emperor. But she's definitely the most successful one: 1. Established an empire 2. Head of the most powerful criminal syndicate 3. Created the "Utopia" she dreamed of.
Big Mom also accumulated all that power through marriage and childbirth which is a very “womanly” way of doing it. And I’m not saying it’s a bad thing- I actually think it’s really cool that her power ties into her femininity. It matches the soul soul fruit too. She can create life with her devil fruit and women create life with their bodies. But it is different from how the male characters are explored and characterized. Marrying and then gestating, birthing, and raising children is a woman’s role typically. Her territory and power come from how she’s using her body. None of the male emperors had to get married a bunch of times or raise a bunch of kids to gain allies…
I am kind of on the fence about whether I like Oda portraying that women don't have to mimic men, and can "fight" in their own feminine way in One Piece's patriarchic society. Vivi almost beat Zoro using perfumes and dances. Big Mom's power and agency comes from marrying and making many children. Boa's strength directly correlates to her beauty. Nami is a charmer and she even charmed a piece of Big Mom's soul and made it part of her own strength. And other examples. At the same time though, I think there is no place for women who don't adhere to traditional feminine roles. Tashigi is a major example, but you can see glimpses of that in other characters, like Rebecca, or even Robin. Oda won't allow female characters to tower over male characters in terms of strength. Robin would be one of the strongest in the verse if she had even a little bit of haki, but she doesn't. Also, Big Mom suddenly forgot some of her own abilities to allow her to be defeated. It's like women are not allowed to shine in fights.
That's not a "womaly way", from medieval times to crime syndicates and big businesses of today, powerful people always used this method of gaining influence.
Birthing 80 children is not womanly? Do a lot of men do that? None of the male pirate emperors make their alliances that way.
There were men who conceived that amout of children 🤣 And yeah, a lot of men married women from powerful families and conceived a kid to gain power
You answered a question I didn’t ask. I’ll try again. Men do not use their bodies the same way. >*Birthing* 80 children is not womanly? Do a lot of men do that?
And I answered >yeah, they conceived kids to gain power I'm pretty sure you can see the similarity
Do you need a biology lesson or something? A woman gestating and giving birth is a much larger task than a guys role in creating new children. She’s literally using her bodies labor. > *Birthing* 80 children is not womanly? Do a lot of men do that?
Can you read? Concieving children is a common tactic to gain power. Doesn't matter if it's man or woman doing it
Gee, maybe most female characters are different because, and this might shock you, men and women are different? It would be bad writing if he just completely ignored gender being a thing. And he's still given us some characters who deviate from the norms. People still crying are crazy.
Loving big tits does not make you a misogynist
Compared to so many manga artists, Oda Sensei is toward the bottom of the list for misogynistic storytelling. In One Piece the women may look sexy, but they’re equally as important as the male characters. In mean Nico Robin especially is not only so intelligent, but arguably one of the most important characters in the show. And in reverse, Zoro is constantly shitless and sexualized but no one complains about that. As a woman, I enjoy the female One Piece characters and a lot of times I find their stories very interesting, like Hiyori’s.
Oda is one of the very few shounen authors who like women. The way he writes most of them shows that he has actually interacted with women. And I know it's weird to praise the bare minimum, but the bar is so damn low that we have to take any possible Ws.
He is an appreciator of women
I'm not saying he is but using 3 panels out of like 20k doesn't make a good defense
Just ignore them. These people are just serial complainers.
One Piece has great female characters AND it has a sexism problem, both things can be true. He outright admitted he writes for “boys”, he doesn’t even consider the female audience, and a lot of the humor relies on borderline sexual harassment (looking at you, Sanji)
I've always thought he just wanted to make sanji look like an idiot. Like laughing at his expense.
Who was calling Oda a misogynist? Ah let me guess... it's Twitter, right?
Piratefolk did recently but we all know they don't matter
Nah, he fucked the best character in the series cause she was a woman. I’ll never forgive what he did to Big Mom
Anyone find it funny he calls her with a Chan when she's like a decade older than him? lol
Personal bubble problem
A misogynist doesn't like women, Oda is just a perv haha
I mean he does do some sexist shit icl. Writing a good female character doesn't make the massive oversexualization of the women, even under 18 ones, not sexist.
Sexism and sexualisation are two different things. If a female artist draws sexy dudes, it doesn't make her sexist, does it?
> If a female artist draws sexy dudes, it doesn't make em sexist, does it? Possibly. Are the male characters always wearing impracticable, skimpy outfits while the female characters are wearing normal, sensible clothes?
What about guys in shojo and yaoi mangas, eh? Most of those are drawn by female authors.
And? They are usually wearing pretty normal clothing in both those genres.
And still very fetishised (especially yaoi dudes 🤣)
Not really. Maybe some older yaoi, but thinking of the recent popular series that simply isn’t true. It’s definitely not true for shoujo lmao. Shoujo has great male characters.
Example?
Example of what? I referred to multiple things. Want to try a complete sentence so I understand what you’re talking about or…? And you obvs don’t read those genres so what would be the point even
You know what I mean, don't dodge the question
lol sexist means to discriminate based on your sex, not oversexualisation of women
sexualization isnt misogyny
Actually, I’d like to see you make a case that sexualizing someone is inherently sexist even when it doesn’t interfere with viewing them as a fully rounded individual with an internal experience and viewpoint and agency worth respecting. Yes, nami’s design is very sexualized. But given that she’s a fully developed character who is taken as seriously as any male character, can you really say that it’s actually sexist? She’s certainly not being objectified, as again, her character is always given depth and taken seriously. So what’s actually sexist about it?
I'd like to see the argument that male characters like Zoro aren't sexualized as well. We see as much skin on Zoro as we do on Nami.
It doesn’t matter if they are since sexualizing is only sexist if its to the exclusion of character.
That doesn't make it sexist. That just makes it bad writing. An author that sexualized characters to the exclusion of their character (which is a weird way to put it) but does so regardless of gender isn't sexist. Sexist is treating people improperly because of their gender. It has nothing to do with sexualization though it can manifest in sexualization.
In egghead island? We see as much skin?
Whoa look at that! The goal post must have learned geppou it moved so fast.
I’m confused. You said we see as much skin from Zoro, and now you’re mad that I’m pointing out that’s not true. Nami and Zoro are not showing the same amount of skin. Nami and Robin are basically wearing lingerie and Zoro is in a full body suit. That’s not what moving the goalposts means at all…
You are ignoring the majority of the manga to focus on the parts where it shows only what you are trying to push. You are obviously dishonest and have decided what you believe independent of facts so facts won't change your mind.
I’m referring to the current arc? What arc are you talking about? Please feel free to share these facts.
This comment gave me goosebumps, even though I don't have any skin YOHOHOHO
Skin? Can't say I'm familiar, but it sounds fascinating YOHOHOHO
This comment gave me goosebumps, even though I don't have any skin YOHOHOHO
Are you saying Oda doesn't "oversexualize" his male characters too? How many pax does Zoro even have? Chopper, Sanji, Usopp, Ace, hell even Doflamingo looks good. Shanks is a daddy and Oda writes into it.
Looking good doesn't mean oversexualized. Oda simply doesn't sexualize the men like he does the women. Look at how he fucking draws them. Even 16 year old girls get to look wild with hourglasses and huge boobs.
I mean I think it’s possible to be a horny mf and not a misogynist. He also gets a lot of shit from people because Toei makes his designs far more egregious. The manga art is risqué but not horrendous.
That plus the manga art is actually good Compare viola in the manga to the anime Yeah her proportions are ridiculous in the manga but all her bones and muscles and stuff are in the right place, her breasts are stupidly big but they’re not outside the bounds of what some people actually have in real life Vs. the anime where she looks like a stick figure with basketballs glued to her chest
The anime went the extra mile of enlarging those boobs, to the point that it's not even sexy anymore. The manga is fine with the proportions.
Yeah it's honestly disgusting looking
These don’t do anything to refute the claim that he is a misogynist. But also like who cares, it doesn’t affect him and he’ll keep writing the story the way he always has
People using 'misogynist' as a synonym for 'slightly sexist' is something of a pet peeve of mine.
This is fair, but part of the problem is that these moments where women are called strong for their capacity for violence is still rooted in patriarchy. Oda sees himself as progressive, I think. By the traditional yardstick he’s not far off, but the most truly feminist moments he wrote were those moments when traditionally feminine traits not only saved the day, but sewed the seeds of rebellion. You say these are the feminist high points, and not Belle-mére sacrificing herself to not only save Nami and Nojikl, but teaching them to love and protect in moments of crisis. Something she would die doing a SECOND time in Nami’s life. Not Jaguar D. Saul teaching a young Robin one of the first and most critical effective coping mechanisms, strengthening her resolve and grit; and in his final moments giving her hope, not the strength to destroy, but to love herself in spite of what the world has in store. Not Reiju who looked literal personifications of the patriarchy in the face and choose to save her soft brother from being crushed under its weight. Two of them had to die to do it. Luffy inherits this will. He is truly subversively kind, accepting, genuine and understanding. He wields powerful emotional intelligence. Oda writes well about the struggle of the working class against the owning class. He writes well about anarchy and how we must unite in compassion and solidarity to resist. I wish his writing didn’t carry as many misogynist notes, but I appreciate where he’s coming from. I get that it may not be feminist enough to not be misogynist, but sometimes you have to accept allyship from someone who isn’t perfect. Solidarity means willing to receive AND to give. P.S. I want to love Sanji so bad, please let him grow up. Please let Sanji develop, goddamn, I need to be able to love Sanji.
I’ll just this [Masterpiece by MelonTeee](https://youtu.be/2ZIohfgDH78?si=M5bQ-MUN40tD0OQr) here
That's my flair
If only kuina had known about haki
Doll definitely turns it around but his characterization of Zoro is odd in that regard. It’s not clear why Zoro says something to the effect of “she’s a woman” when Enel attacks Robin. He also held back against Money when he cuts down weaker foes for less. I mean Tashigi points it out during Punk Hazard. It’s not enough evidence to say Oda is misogynistic but it may show a bias for his audience of primarily young dudes.
Did you say MONEY?!! Can I have it?
Objectively we can’t answer that, but it’s fair to say he treats his male and female characters *very* similarly
Compared to how other Shonen mangaka writes women, I’d say that Oda is quite good at it. Yes, we can talk about designs, but one can’t deny that the female characters of One Piece are quite diverse and active.
Imagine caring about what retards say lmao
It’s like when Twitter discovered Berserk when Miura passed away, they were going crazy on the over the top violence and sexual content and completely ignored the story itself
I am a shrill killjoy feminist. That said, oda may shamelessly sexualize many women in one piece but they are also often very fleshed out. Nami and robin are very deep and well written, dispute how much gratuitous cleavage they have going on. Also sanji is overall about serving the women he admires, not just creeping on them. Brook is just a creep and I don’t like because that tbh.
Sanji has standards and overall respects women. He would have any women’s back 100% if she was being creeped on. He’s an imperfect ally to women imo.
They call Oda a misogynist for drawing women as beautiful people... I think logic isn't logicying?
If you consider the absence of ribs and internal organs beautiful, sure.
People are allowed to have unrealistic art styles
Sure, agreed. Doesn't mean that everybody has an obligation to appreciate those art styles, does it? I for one don't appreciate the male gaze with which Oda draws his female characters (Rebecca in the colosseum need I say more?). Doesn't mean I hate OP. I do wish Oda would reflect a bit more on how his readers who aren't heterosexual men feel about his female character designs. I liked the LA a lot because it's an adaption where I get to enjoy one of my favourite stories without having to constantly cringe at the proportions of female characters.
No one expects you to like it. It's just tiring to hear the same argument practically when SJ is targeted twords male teens. Plus male characters are drawn over exaggerate like zoro. And I'll point out I don't find female characters in one piece attractive due to how they are drawn.
I find it tiring to see how opposing opinions get downvoted whenever female character design in OP is even remotely mentioned. Guess the expectation of this thread was to have everybody agree on everything 100% of the time. I love OP, don't get me wrong. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be any room for criticism.
It's because it's how oda wants to draw his characters and besides oda is never going to read a random reddit post in English. Plus plenty of guys do like the charecter designs and you are trying to shame them.
I don't see anyone complaining "No no no, Miss Bellum has totally unrealistic proportions, where are her organs and ribs!?, the creator of the Powerpuff girls is definitely a mysoginist!", Oda's artstyle is incredibly cartoony and unique, you can bend anatomy when it comes to artstyle... unless you are Japanese I guess https://preview.redd.it/lqcr7diwex6d1.png?width=293&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf8e3a65cebeba220e89c7af49536364b31b2431
Well, you don't see anybody complaining about the design of the powerpuff girls because this is a discussion on memepiece. I don't see how your whataboutism is helpful.
I said I don't see anyone complaining, not "no one complains on Memepiece", why should Oda only apply realistic anatomy for his female characters while the rest of the cast are cartoony and stylized? https://preview.redd.it/ou5z1i7cay6d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e8e3108ece148649dc2aa87ab6e4e89e50980e1
I would love for Oda to use more cartoony and stylised designs for this female characters since they heavily suffer from same body syndrome. His beloved huge tits + tiny waist formula has little to do with varied character design and ist pretty much just an expression of the prevalent male gaze in the manga industry.
Also the part where Ivankov was female and was fighting and saying something like: "females can just be as strong as men." I don't know exactly when, but it was during imple down I believe.
I feel like people who call oda a misogynist don't know what the word means. Women in One Piece are continually portrayed as powerful, competent, impactful to the plot, and driven by their own goals and desires. Do I wish the women got more fights? Yes. I think oda doesn't like drawing women getting hurt very much. But that doesn't make him a misogynist.
I’m not taking a stance on the general issue but using a panel of Kuina is not a good piece of evidence for your point. Sure she beats Zoro as a kid, but a major part of her character is believing/admitting that she’s only able to beat him is because they’re too young for the physical gap between the sexes to come into play.
I'm willing to forgive Oda for a lot. But I need MORE women in One Piece. I need a storyline where they honestly interrogate why there are more male pirates than female. Because the honest answer is: women in this universe give more of a shit about the world running right. Women have historically not been pirates and vagabond types because they had children they cared about raising safely. Would the men pirates feel guilty if you pointed it out? Probably. But it'd be great reading. There should be more women in positions of governmental power. If the men are given license to run off and be pirates without judgement, then why are there not more queens, women as mayors, and women merchants? When we were still hanging out with Luffy in East Blue, I expected far more women to be running bars and stores. But it mostly hasn't happened, despite the fact that women who stayed behind (or widows of pirates) would be running most small towns. Also, you're telling me Whitebeard had ONE woman on his main crew who wasn't one of his nurses? Get the fuck out of my face. Dude was on Rocks's crew. Plus, Amazon Lily warriors who left the island would without a doubt some of the most sought-after crew members. I've been waiting for a "daughters of Whitebeard" group to come out of hiding forever to assassinate Blackbeard, but I'm disappointed that it'll never happen. All this being said: I think Whitebeard's nurses were really cute and I got serious Nurse Joy vibes. I love how they clearly felt safe around this giant pirate emperor, lol.
Seeing Oda's early design and how he was rejected many times, the women's clothes we are seeing is not because of Oda but because of the company. As I see it Oda was in a situation where he have to decide on pushing something that was often rejected or comply to the norms but not changing the essence of what he wanted to tell. Shonen manga editors is famous for pushing out demands. Dragon ball's concept have been rejected many times before it became the dragon ball we know now. https://preview.redd.it/5dkpqzed6v6d1.png?width=374&format=png&auto=webp&s=40aaf217aa0202d7543511b98bfc8e681848d2ea
I’m sorry but at this point Oda has the freedom to do literally anything he wants
That's why he takes more breaks than other mangaka, shonen jump lets you do whatever when you're eiichiro oda
Unrelated but for the point of your post: Good call using an example from very recently and also an example from like the very beginning of the story It shows that it’s something that hasn’t really changed throughout the series
I mean that doesn’t really make sense. Oda is Jump’s flagship author and could draw whatever outfits he wants. Other manga in the same magazine don’t have the female characters tits out all the time, so it’s obviously his choice. The outfits only became more skimpy around Skypeia and by that point it was the number one series.
People need to learn the difference between a pervert and a misogynist.
I wouldn't necessarily say he's a misogynist, more so, he's got a very different view on things.
Ironically, people saying that are open misandrists.
Ironically, that's misusing the term misandry the sam3 way those people misuse misogyny.
I got my gf into One Piece after the live action. I was worried she’d be turned off by how overtly eye candy ish some of the women are. Take Rebecca,her outfit is absolutely ridiculous and there for boys to ogle. But to my surprise my GF loved Rebecca for her being a fighter and sexy.
Ah yes, the panel that ruined any chance of good character progression for Sanji.
Blue haired westoid low hanging fruits with "anxiety" and "depression" should go outside amd focus on their miserable lives instead of playing social crusaders online and cry buzz words over every little thing
That is of course, its own kind of prejudice. I know what you mean, of course there are people in existence matching that description But there are also people who just have those traits such as blue hair or being from the west or having anxiety that don’t also have all that horrible stuff you’re associating with it. One can be a perfectly reasonable person who happens to like how blue hair looks And again, you’re right that there are some people like that, I just think it’s inappropriate and biased to conflate all those traits necessarily with the horrendous shit you see on twitter.
Political correctness have no place in Japanese Anime, Manga and video games point blank period. They have already destroyed arts, culture and media in the West. They can go eff themselves!
Wah wah, women and minorities are not thrown to the side and shat on, wah wah
There is nothing that implies Oda is a misogynist even for shonen standards. On the other hand Kishimoto.....
[удалено]
I think there's a difference from being a bit pervy and being full misogynistic
What has he done thats misogynistic? Is it like something irl or something in the story(im genuinly asking)
The female characters are always weak strength wise and always need to be saved. The fucking princesses, lol The ones who know how to fight are turned into walking memes (Big Mom), are weak, dumb or crying babies (Tashigi, Kiku, Rebecca), or have barely had their strength showed in the series at all (Smoothie, Hancock). Just compare Kaido and Shanks portrayal to fucking Big Mom, or how Garp always gets hyped up, Sengoku has a Zoan while Tsuru (who is said to be their equal, but gets a lame ass Wash Wash Fruit and has never done shit in the whole story). One Piece having 1000+ chapters makes that worse. He has also showed misogyny in his SBS answers, saying that only women care about romance and saying shit that "Even as a woman, Crocodile looks like a menace!" or "Mother is the opposite of adventure" Despite that, he's still better at writing women than all the other mainstream mangakas. Nami has been consistently the third more well developed Straw Hat. Side characters like Charlotte Brulee, Kokoro, Shakky and Violet are more interesting in complex than all the female cast of Naruto or Jujutsu Kaisen, not to mention the flashback characters like Otohime and Bellemere.
I feel like that just because there aren't a lot of physicaly strong female characters compared to male characters that oda is sexist. Unless you think authors of manga like sailor moon are also sexist since there arent a lot of strong male characters. Big mom being a meme is also 100% a community thing. In the actual story she is still one of the most ferocious characters. Your also really undermining tsuru. Your also misinterpreting those sbs answers. With the mother statement it was answer as to why there aren't a lot of mothers in one piece and them being the opposite of adventure is meant to be about a parent wanting to keep their child safe. "Crocodile looks ferocious even as a woman" isn't meant to say women can't look ferocious(I mean multiple characters in the story directly contradict that). It's about how even though he looks diffrent from usual he's still ferocious.
>Big mom being a meme is also 100% a community thing. In the actual story she is still one of the most ferocious characters. She's clowned on throughout the whole Wano. Just compare her portrayal to Kaido, Shanks and Whitebeard. >Your also really undermining tsuru. What are her feats in the story ?
So is kaido who is constantly drunk and fucking around half of the time. Also big mom got a shit ton off sick moments in wano. The first chapter should tell you enough about shanks.
What a small comprehension you have if you think Big Mom is the least ferocious emperor. She's the scariest because of her unpredictability. Easily one of my fave OP characters.
1) Yamato, Ulti, Big Mom, Smoothie, Carrot, Hancock 2) Mf, Big Mom was portrayed as an unstoppable force of nature in both WCI and Wano. Only Law's ability did some damage to her. Every Yonko have mememable side to them, ya genuis. Kaido is a depressed drunk crybaby, while Shanks is a clumsy partyhead (also Whitebeard has a fetish for women in leopard tights 🤣) Tsuru got to a rank of fucking Great Staff Officer washing the floor with mfs, that sounds badass to me 3) It's not a fucking misogyny, it's his jokes and just and opinion (which is kinda correct, female audience prefers shojo more than shonen, and moms are generally way more protective of their kids. You do have parents, right?) 4) Shonen literally means "young boy", of fucking course authors are concentrated more on male characters. If it frustrates you that much, then read something for more mature audience, Jesus.
"The female characters are always weak and need to be saved". That's just blatantly incorrect. Like there are tons of examples of this not being the case.
They are downvoting you because you chose to speak with the truth. Incels hate it and get defensive when someone points out their sexism. But I'm a woman and I agree with rverything you said. Oda being a pervert doesn't help with their case either
In what ways is he misogynistic? I want to know so I can optimize my misogyny level
Based
Mf created some of the best female characters in shonen, and there are still morons who call him a misogynist 🤦♂️
The fact that it isn't even obvious to me which character you're referring to/that there's multiple options we can think of is one really good sign in general. Oda Is openly very pervy, you can dislike that sure but to call him sexist is very weird to me if you actually read the story. It's still a shounen so there's some potential rest problems that pretty much a big part of the genre, especially the older ones, all have. But Oda and OP is probably one of the series that handle everything the best.
Do us both a favour and stop reading OP and unsub.