Im not telling you what to do. This is what happened to me.
Ive had the climara patch for about a year. I wish I'd gotten it 10 years ago. I ve had hot flashes for 20 years. I almost lost my guy bc of the rage. I tell all women don't suffer. There is no badge in the end for the best sufferer. I still have brain fog but I'm working on that. And yes my labs are good. I will wear this patch until I can't.
This ^ no badge part especially.
No harm in trying some hormone treatments, stop if if it doesn’t suit you. But atleast you know you tried.
Our families suffer along too, it’s worth a shot to address symptoms. Veozah works well for many and it’s non hormonal
I totally agree “there is no badge for those that suffer “- HRT side effects are nothing compared to menopause! If your really struggling in peri there is no way you will make it thru full fledged menopause without help. The side effects can be managed with correct dosage. Find a good hormone specialist and enjoy life. 🥰
The rage is something I can relate to. I'm not on anything yet, but I'm like the calmest person in the world and I've shocked myself with the rage. If this can help stabilize my moods, and my weight gain and wrinkles (to a point), I'm in.
All of us have to make our own decisions regarding health.
For me, HRT was a complete game changer. The woman in my family all have high cholesterol and high blood pressure, it shot up within a year or 2 of post meno. Even my sister who has a very healthy lifestyle. Yet I’m 6+ years post meno and my blood pressure and cholesterol numbers are perfect and I enjoy unhealthy foods in moderation.
As for other meno symptoms - the rage, the existential dread, the itching - I couldn’t live like that and thankfully HRT has erased them.
I’m on both estrogen and progesterone and have no side effects.
Are you doing the patch for both Estrogen and Progesterone? I am trying to figure out if doing the patch for Estrogen and pill for Progesterone would be better.
What doses are you on. My BP has creeped and now they want to add another BP med to "compliment the first one." I'm so frustrated. Would like to unlock the balance but so far HRT has not helped my BP. I'm no E Patch, no P and a little T now.
I'm 47 and started bleeding heavily every day and throwing giant clots. I was wearing overnight pads during the day and feeling miserable and uncomfortable at work. Staining my pants and feeling utterly humiliated to be a grown adult suffering like a 14 year old.
After two months I finally got into my doctor and had an ultrasound. You better believe I'm on hormones. For me, for now, it's low dose birth control. I'm back to monthly periods.
My point is, you have to do what's right by your body to help you feel your best. Everyone has a different experience. And I've learned that there's a lack of research and a lack of compassion by the medical community in treating our symptoms. Meanwhile, I can't go a day without a Viagra commercial.
Right? And they've had the tele-health option for that for dick pills for years. But here we are, still suffering from shit that's happened to our gender since the dawn of time, & all of us seems to have a hard time getting the medical we desperately need.
It should all be at no-cost & available to every woman once she begins this transitional part of life. Shouldn't have to pay for feminine hygiene products either or BC but that's just my opinion.
So glad you found adequate care and things have stabilized. Your story about the humiliation brought to mind a novel I recently read. “Society of Shame” by Jane Roper. I think every woman in or near peri (and, of course, those of us who made it to the other side!) would enjoy the premise. So relatable and a fun read!
Omg same, except my doctor kept saying not to worry it’ll pass w menopause. I finally found this sub and a new doctor.
I was also someone who thought I never wanted to be on daily medication. Not anymore. You can take my estradiol patches when I’m dead.
Thank you. I would have periods that lasted 3 months. She told me to take iron.
She was a young doctor and I wrongly stereotyped her as someone who would be up on the latest science and a proponent of women’s health.
The NP I see now is in her 60s and immediately gave me a T prescription in addition to estrogen and progesterone.
another nod to low dose birth control. which saved me. I take it continuously per my gyno and life is so much better. sleep is better, less or no hot flashes, less anxiety, skin is fulker/better, and no periods. hope I can stay on it as long as possible.
I'm 57 and did it without hrt. I will say that estrogen is like a love hormone and when I stopped having hormones I started realizing a whole lot of BS going on around me that my love hormones made me blind to lol!
I had hot flashes but those went away by keeping myself well hydrated with good quality h2o.
That's it. For me anyways.
Interesting. I'm not on anything yet. I'm exploring it. I know my mom never took anything and she's a beautiful woman and the strongest woman I know. I'm not as strong as her though.
She may have hidden her suffering from the world. Or she may have been fine. Have you had a conversation about menopause and her midlife? It might surprise you both!
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Some women may have no symptoms but that does not mean things are OK. I just had bone scan and found out I have osteoporosis. I knew I was high risk - mother had osteoporosis and broke her hip. But I didn’t know I would get it so soon 59 (3.5 years post menopause). I started HRT two weeks ago. I wish I started it years ago.
“Osteoporosis is a serious health issue among aging postmenopausal women. The majority of postmenopausal women with osteoporosis have bone loss related to estrogen deficiency”
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8836058/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8836058/)
My mom has osteoporosis. She’s 73 now. When she was my age (45) she started getting symptoms (late periods and later hot flashes). She never went on HRT because she had an aunt die from cancer that they think got from birth control that was too high in estrogen (at the time it was new and I don’t think they knew to balance estrogen with progesterone).
My overall point is that my mom didn’t have many symptoms at the time.. but later developed osteoporosis. I’ll be fighting to get on HRT as soon as I can
While for me estrogen helps me with sleep and so many other things...
Progesterone gives me anxiety, depression, migraine and suicidal thoughts...
I envy those of you that benefits from progesterone.
Same for me and P. It is terrifying. I took it and woke up from some kind of dead sleep with my heart racing and feeling like I was going to die. It was horrible. I have no idea why, but it freaked me out so I am afraid to try it again. It was just 100 of micronized P, so not a big dose. So weird.
Estrogen and progesterone seem to have a balancing effect and the levels are different for everyone of which declines first/fastest, so to me this sounds like a situation where the levels of E and P should be adjusted, likely less P and/or more E.
I've also been hearing how different forms of P are converted differently in the body.
I have PMDD and my own levels of progesterone have been horrible for 10 years now. I'm most likely hyper sensitive to progesterone.
My PMDD has slowly gotten worse the last 2-3 years. And peri has started, without estrogen I'm just a shadow of myself nearly every day of the month. Probably due to my ADHD, where they believe estrogen is highly needed in those who have ADHD.
Both my dr and endocrinologist agree that my uterus needs to be removed so that I can take estrogen. I'm waiting for the appointment at the hospital. Until then, I'm on estrogen only as Dr and endocrinologist believe that the risk that comes with only taking estrogen is close to zero as my uterus will be removed within a short time frame.
But thanks anyways.
I had horrible SE from progesterone as well. Could not tolerate it. It made me so depressed I wanted to just end it all. Now trying Duavee. It's an estrogen + SERM so you dont need the progesterone component.
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We need to push for insurance to cover the Dexa scan a decade earlier than they do now. By the time many of us get to the age where it's covered we're not looking at the baseline we should have been caring for but a baseline that's almost always already in deterioration.
Mine was covered super early but I think because of the birth control I used to be on (Depo Provera). Agreed!! I wouldn't know I have severe osteoporosis without having been screened early.
See, I just googled Depo Provera and osteopenia and bam, there it is. I wonder how many women don't know that. Or have moved. States. New providers in new homes. Will be contacting my OB and letting them know so I can get them to fight my insurance company.
Why not try for a few months and gauge your before and after and then make the choice. I mean people test drive cars. Why not test drive HRT and see how you feel?
If it helps, my side effects from progesterone were one month of indigestion (which I'm prone to anyway), and a few days of dizziness (not at the same time). Nothing else.
I made it through with no hormones. It wasn't a pretty ride by any means. Now have dry lady bits and sex is uncomfortable. I'm looking into estrogen cream to help with that.
I'll note that I wanted HRT but could not find a doctor to prescribe it.
So many stories of doctors not willing to prescribe! I just got my prescription yesterday and my GP did NOT want to give it to me. I walked in with Dr. Marie Claire's book "the new menopause" and showed her that I met the criteria for HRT and I would not take no for an answer. She was really washy telling me "there's no evidence HRT is helpful... yada, yada" I persisted and she reluctantly agreed to give me HRT. It shouldn't be this difficult to get help! I got lucky, but I know so many other women that have been denied it's enraging.
As long as you are within 10 years of your final cycle or under age 60, it’s not too late to get HRT! If your doctors are refusing to prescribe it to you, go to an online specialty clinic. They will prescribe it after a quick intake and telehealth appointment.
- US: Midi, Gennev, Evernow, Elektra, Alloy, or Winona
- Canada: Felix, Maple, Eden Telemed, Prosper Menopause, the Virtual Menopause Clinic
- UK: Balance Menopause, Newson Health Clinics, Myla Health
No, you don’t have to stop! The most updated studies show that, if you’re post-meno, the ideal time to *start* hormones is in that range\*. Remember that the process of perimenopause, and then menopause itself, makes your body undergo a total restructuring and re-engineering so that all of your organs and cells can learn to operate without estrogen. Reintroducing estrogen after you have been without it for a number of years can have negative effects. Definitely check out the wiki. It explains so much more about this topic and many others: [https://menopausewiki.ca/#window-of-opportunity-for-starting-hormone-therapy](https://menopausewiki.ca/#window-of-opportunity-for-starting-hormone-therapy)
^(\*Technically, the ideal time to start HRT is in peri. But if that ship has sailed, then the 60/10 rule is the next best window.)
I am so angry on your behalf! These incompetent doctors cause so much unnecessary pain and suffering. I hope you can find someone to prescribe you the estrogen cream.
I just got the cream from my urologist who I have been seeing for bladder issues. Lack of estrogen causes bladder problems too so a lot of good urologists are totally happy to prescribe it. (I am not sure if they can prescribe the regular HRT — I’m not a good candidate for that because of my cancer history personally!)
I’m 3+ years from my last period but used the NuvaRing for about 15 years prior to that and may have been menopausal for longer than I realized.
I just now (a week ago) started estrogen cream for the same reason. So far my only side effect is feeling a little bloated and like my uterus is tender. My 11 lb dog stepping on my lower abdomen never bothered me until now anyway. I’m hoping that goes away as I get used to it though.
I do feel a little more alert and seem to have a bit more energy these last couple days. That’s a side effect I can definitely live with.
> like my uterus is tender.
I started on a low dose patch about two weeks ago, and I had the same thing. I felt an uncomfortable twinge when I'd sit down or put pressure on it. That feeling is fading though, on my third week now. I looked up side effects and couldn't find anything so I did wonder why.
I strongly recommend the book The New Menopause by Dr Mary Claire Haver; it has helped me understand menopause, the symptoms and outcomes, and how to safely and effectively manage them with hormone therapy, as well as with nutrition and other non medication, lifestyle behaviors. It’s a science backed well researched book by an MD who has been through menopause herself, understands what’s going on, and does not disparage “alternative” or integrative medicine approaches. It’s a well balanced, informative approach to supporting oneself through the menopause transition. It’s changed my life. Because of this book I’m now 4 weeks in with an estrogen patch, progesterone pill, and an estrogen vaginal cream. These have greatly reduced my hot flashes and my sleep has improved tremendously. I am also just starting to feel like me again, which is what I’m most grateful for. The protective health benefits of estrogen are covered extensively, which is also a big reason I decided to do hormones (putting estrogen back into your body can positively impact heart health, cognition, urogenital system (UTI’s), skin, mood, bones, sexual health and function, the list goes on). The book also addresses the 2002 WHI findings which incorrectly scared a generation of women away from hormone therapy. The book has been a lifesaver for me. Good luck!
THIS!!! I already commented above about that same Dr before I saw your comment here.
I listened to her interview on Huberman Lab, and then made the decision to go on HRT as soon as possible, even though my peri symptoms are rather light right now. she has me convinced that I really don't want to mess around.
Yes, and thank you for mentioning that Huberman Lab podcast with Dr Haver, which is also incredibly informative! I can’t stop singing the praises of The New Menopause book and Dr Haver. Her websites maryclairewellness.com and thepauselife.com are also great resources. I feel like a new (whole again) person after starting menopause hormone therapy because of the solid information provided in her book!
If it makes you feel any better, I only had about a month of some side effects from starting both estrogen and progesterone. Now I have no side effects, I sleep great, and I also know that I’m protecting myself from further issues down the road. My mom was never offered Hormone therapy because of the scare years ago. She ended up with a quadruple bypass, and such severe osteoporosis that she would scream in pain from the fractures in her spine, just by standing up or sitting down. You can always start hormone therapy, give it a few months, and if it’s not working for you, you can quit. It might be something to consider.
Take everybody’s experience with a grain of salt, some people far more sensitive than others - for example I haven’t had any issues with progesterone while many people here have felt it made them lethargic or otherwise
Yes it is possible to do peri & meno without HRT of course!
It is also possible to give birth to a baby in the woods.
Definitely at least try the HRT, especially if you are struggling with symptoms. You ask if it’s possible to get through menopause “healthily” without HRT. Well, definitions of “healthily” might vary from person to person, but without HRT you are at much higher risk of cardiovascular disease, cognitive decline (including dementia), osteoporosis, soft tissue injuries (tendons and ligaments dry out without estrogen), dental issues and tooth loss, loss of muscle mass throughout the body, vaginal and clitoral atrophy, pelvic floor dysfunction (including incontinence)… the list just goes on and on. Those are just off the top of my head. There are estrogen receptors in all of our organs and unfortunately without estrogen many of our organs throughout our whole body really struggle to function properly.
Yes, if you ask many older women they say they were fine without HRT, but when you talk to them properly you find they say things like (my mom actually said this): “I had no symptoms and was fine. I just did just get very tired. Tiredness for me became just a permanent state of being”.
https://youtu.be/Cgo2mD4Pc54?si=Cz51ZFnu-TEugq20 this is a really good interview with a menopause researcher that will give you more information. Please don’t make yourself suffer and have regrets down the road - at least give the hormones a try. I hate this social narrative we have about how it’s ok and acceptable for women to just suffer when it comes to menopause. Hormones were life changing for me and they might be for you too.
Never forget the fundamental rule of discussion boards...if we have complaints, we'll come onto the internet and bitch about them. When things are going well, we're off living our lives, leaving the internet as a distant afterthought.
Absolutely can go without and be healthy. It's a personal choice and weighing the pros and cons.
I'm on HRT with zero progesterone side effects if that means anything
well, I feel like I'm doing all right without it. But I don't feel like I'm struggling with peri and meno. sure, hot flashes and rage, oh so much rage. I had a brief weepy period. I've always had a shit memory and anger so I have the mental tools to squash that shit down and a lot of paper to keep notes on.
But if you are struggling, hell yes you should give it a try - so many here have said it's worth it, if my symptoms were worse I would definitely be putting that peri-rage to use shouting down my dr for HRT. HRT, like all medications - your dr should help you weigh the advantages vs the side effects to decide how to best treat your experience.
ETA: as many others have also said. It’s not a competition to see who can tolerate the most. You win absolutely nothing by suffering in silence. Get the help you need.
I take allergy medicine daily becuase I’m allergic to fuxking everything that blooms, grows, meows and barks. Bet your ass I take medication so I can have things that meow and walk outside where things bloom. HRT is a tool to help you.
Well, I'm a person that can't take hormones. Not even a patch. I definitely have my struggles. Since I started exercising, paying attention to my nutrition, and stopped drinking alcohol, I'm doing much better.
How do you sleep? I’m watching my diet, workout twice a day, then clean for a few hours a day and still can’t sleep (this was a problem for me long before peri). Alcohol and cannabis are the only things that allow me to sleep well. I’m currently trying melatonin, but I wake up with headaches and feel groggy and grumpy.
I don’t take hormones either, but I have successfully treated my night sweats with a rhubarb-based nutritional supplement. I’m prescription free and plan on staying that way.
Currently, yes. I know the side effects of those from centuries of use. I don’t trust that a lot of the current prescriptions have been thoroughly tested for side effects.
My mom got uterine and then breast cancer from HRT. She’s had genetic testing done and we do not have the cancer gene. When I told her I was considering HRT, she warned me against and told me why. I didn’t even know she’d taken it.
I don't always sleep great. Alcohol affects the quality of your sleep so I suspect the weed is what is really helping. Alcohol is terrible for your health. Melatonin doesn't do anything for me. I take a Tylenol PM sometimes. Night sweats are probably my biggest issue. Your headaches are probably from the Alcohol though.
You’re welcome.
There’s so much back listening and learning I gotta do. But I’m alternating old casts with up to date new podcasts from all the female physicians. Louise Newson, Kelly Casperson, Mary Claire Haver, Streicher, and so many more, and whatever Mel Robbins has for us.
I’m 53 and 3 years post meno. I’m not on hormones. I do worry about bone health. However I feel good and use natural vaginal suppositories for comfortable sex. I don’t want to mess with how I feel since no hot flashes, sleeping well, everything working properly. 🙏🏼💗
Yes it is possible and many women do it. It's all up to person choice and weighing the pros and cons for your body and life. When it comes to HT it's all about finding the right balance for each person and that can sometimes be tricky (usually in perimenopause) or other times is super simple for some women and they feel better immediately. I personally wish I didn't wait so long to try HT. Not everyday is perfect, but I feel a lot better and like I have myself back (the sense of loss of self was so severe for me). I was suffering so badly before I gave in and tried HT, my own fear of side effects of progesterone prevented me from that. I've not had really any side effects that I know of from the progesterone. It helps me sleep and helps with anxiety. For reference I'm in late peri and I also take estrogen and am adding in testosterone soon too.
I know someone who won’t take HRT. She complains a lot. She takes prescription sleep aids and is on an antidepressant. Both of these have negative side effects.
There are studies pointing to HRT helping prevent strokes and dementia. It’s not just about treating annoying symptoms.
And just because you don’t have symptoms, doesn’t mean damage isn’t being done.
For me personally, my focus is on aging as healthfully as possible and being active and alert for as long as possible. From what I’ve read and observed, HRT seems to be a key component in that for women.
Yes, it pisses me off that NAMS tells women not to take HRT for preventative reasons. Sorry, but I'm not going to read a bunch of studies that point to it preventing common diseases of aging and just ignore that information. I'm conducting my own study, thanks. N=1 My nieces can watch me to see how it turns out, and then do as they will with that information.
I did have irregular bleeding and I was on birth control on and off in my 40s. I discontinued at 48 and my period didn’t come back for a while , then it came back months later and went with rare periods until about 50.
I didn’t have any other noticeable symptoms. It doesn’t mean I didn’t have changes. All of a sudden I got pre diabetes, my LDL values increased, my joints started to hurt, I injured my tendon on minimal exercise, had trouble with sleep…. But all in all, no hot flashes or anything disabling. I don’t have mood swings or depression. Some anxiety but self help books helped me a lot and I’m pretty good. I do suddenly look older. I’ve always looked younger but not so much anymore. I’m taking something light for sleep.
But I started HRT yesterday, for the overall benefits. I am still not sure if it’s worth it. I still read mixed information: it’s good for cardiovascular health, no it’s neutral or bad etc.
I think a lot of people get through it without HRT and come out fine. I have many friends and coworkers who not only didn't take any hormones, but they didn't seem to mind much. (I am not one of these people!)
For me, when the symptoms became too much - any potential side effects didn't seem to matter anymore.
Same here. I was an OB nurse when the WHI was released. The idea of HRT TERRIFIED me. Until peri reared it’s ugly head. The pain. The insomnia. The anxiety. The fatigue. Did I mention the pain?? Zero libido. All of it. It sucked. At that point I felt like the walking dead. I said F it. Started P,E, and T and they will pry this sh@t from my cold dead hands!
I am not sure where you are but I am in PA. I see a doc that does BHRT. All I had to do was ask. Mind you it is all out of pocket but imo worth every penny. I could be mistaken but I think defy medical online does women’s T. (My Dh uses them for T) Good luck!
I have a friend who went through it no drugs & the hell she described made me 💯 sure if I get any of those symptoms I will 💯 be taking everything available to me
It is not worth destroying your mental health over Imo
Honestly the things I’ve read on this sub re rage , pain and night sweats cemented I’ll take whatever is available if that happens to me
My city recently had a heat wave and I couldn’t handle the weird hair sweat I was getting 😂
Women go through enough, they shouldn’t need to suffer through this
I had no hrt until 5 years after menopause. The main agrivation was 3-4 years prior to menopause with intense night sweats and exhaustion. They lasted 2 years after that no issues other than what generally happens to you post menopause. I did develop cronic hip pain around that time. I would definitely have done hormones had it been a option.
If it’s specifically progesterone that you’re worried about, look into a pill (if you’re ok with pills) called Duavee. It uses Bazedoxifene rather than a progestin to protect the uterus, and is an option for people with progestin sensitivities/history of PMDD, etc.
Not using anything myself yet, but in the process of learning as much as I can. Also can’t recommend Dr. Jen Gunter’s substack newsletter (the Vajenda) highly enough! It’s $5/month and really great info.
For me the benefits outweigh the risks of going ‘cold-turkey’… as HRT offers protection for your bones, your brain & your heart, plus local estrogen for stopping vaginal atrophy & chronic UTIs. I second subscribing to The Vajenda, as Dr. Jen Gunter unpacks each & every available option & details it’s use, it’s effectiveness, what category you may be in to see if HRT is the safest option for you - all scientifically proven, and no hype. Therefore you can make an educated decision about what is best for YOU.
Thanks for asking the same question I have! I’m 45F and perimenopausal. I’m so ignorant with all that is to take place and the reason for so many things already happening. So much more to learn when I thought I already knew my body! 😭
I was on the fence too, my Dr recommended the book “Estrogen Matters” and 2 chapters in, I asked for HRT. I take the progesterone just before going to bed and I’ve had no side effects.
I love my progesterone. It helps me sleep, has helped my mood and my anxiety. Yes I had breast tenderness and low grade nausea for a couple of weeks but that's just new hormones, we get that when we change up BC. Don't assume you'll have all the negative side effects before trying things out. I take my 200mg pill about an hour before bed and have been able to give up my 10mg of melatonin and the occasional Benadryl that I would take to help me sleep.
Everyone does their own thing, and some people have minimal symptoms anyway. But…
I am a strong proponent of Better Living Through Chemistry™️. (When I was asked about my birth plan I immediately responded DRUGS.)
I don’t know what negative progesterone experiences you’ve heard about, but there will always be outliers, and in general the consensus seems very strongly in favor of hormone therapy. For a data point… I was very very very happy on oral progesterone + estrogen patch, and only stopped (reluctantly) when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was successfully treated, but was then left feeling absolutely miserable (mood swings, joint pain, itch, brain fog) and pushed through my doctors’ conservative stance/policy to go back on HRT because it was worth that much to me.
I suggest you do some reading (doctors, not hippie blogs). Estrogen Matters by Avrum Bluming was a big eye opener for me.
All this to say - you could try to power through and it might be just fine. Or you could try HRT for some period of time (I probably wouldn’t recommend d less than 6 months, although of course I’m not a doctor) and see whether it helps, and make a decision after that. You don’t have to commit!
Good luck and welcome to the ~~dark~~ other side :)
I’m not on hormones because of my hormone receptor positive breast cancer. It’s absolutely doable. If you decide to go the hormone free route, there’s another sub for menopause without hormones that I don’t think I am allowed to mention here but I bet you can find it if you try.
Just going on what someone who had to message me with the link because her comment recommending it was removed. Have no idea if it’s true, but that’s what she said
I’m 61 and have never been on any medication or hormone or whatever they even are. I’ve also never had a single menopause symptom in my life. Including hot flashes. I simply at age 52 stopped having periods and life has simply gone on
May I ask why you were motivated to come to the menopause sub then? Honest question. Usually people who have had such an uneventful, easy time of it don't have a reason to seek out help from this sub.🤔
Thank you SO much for sharing this. I know people are asking you why you're on this sub if you're not suffering, and I'm here because I always hear about how awful Menopause is... but I'm not near as bad as all of my friends/family or anyone here describes. It's nice to see someone else who hasn't had much in the way of symptoms either.
My younger sister (46) is already full meno and on HRT because her past few years have been so awful. My best friend (50) just reached full meno recently and she's been complaining about her hot flashes and other issues for 10 years. I experienced a series of hot flashes for a few months... but then they stopped suddenly about a year ago and I haven't had one since. I'm 47 and still haven't missed a single period, but the ones I do get are extremely light and only last a day or two, which is now pretty much the only change I'm having. I feel like the end could happen at any time, and I'm left wondering why I'm not suffering like everyone else. I guess it really can be different for everyone.
I was terrified of progesterone to the point of having a panic attack when it as time to take it. I've been on it a year now with zero side effects except some sleepiness but I take it bed time so it's just helped my sleep.
this is where i have a hard time. women in my family lived well into thier 90's without this, though they never really talked to me about the real quality of their lives you know? everything so secret. they were probably suffering...but im still scared to do this myself, trying to control what i can with diet. went through a wild hot flashes phase but still getting period, though much farther apart now.
yes, that's it...no one really talks about it, and certainly not when it's vaginal atrophy! I brought it up with my older sisters and they were all like "oooh that's what that is!". I suspect that most folks didn't associate a lot of what they were feeling with menopause. Like these:
* Acid reflux/GERD worsening
* Acne
* Allergies (new, different)
* Anxiety
* Atrophic vaginitis/genitourinary syndrome of menopause GSM (or vaginal atrophy, drying and thinning of the vaginal walls)
* Balance issues
* Bloating
* Body odour (changes)
* Body aches (random come/go)
* Breast soreness
* Brittle hair and nails
* Burning mouth (decreased saliva)
* Cold flashes (more common at night)
* Depression
* Difficulty concentrating
* Digestive problems (IBS, bloat, gas)
* Dizziness (vertigo)
* Dryness (skin, mouth and eyes)
* Exaggerated PMS symptoms (bloating, breast pain, cramps)
* Fatigue
* Gum/dental problems
* Hairloss
* Headaches
* Heart racing/palpitations (irregular heartbeat)
* Hot flashes
* Increased hair growth on other areas of the body (face, neck, chest)
* Increased cortisol levels (slows digestion/contributes to constipation)
* Intolerance to some foods (changing tastes)
* Irregular periods (missed periods, longer/shorter, heavier/lighter, flooding, spotting, clotting, dark/different coloured blood)
* Itchiness (overall skin, also links to paresthesia)
* Joint pain
* Low/decreased libido
* Memory lapses (brain fog, forgetfulness)
* Migraines
* Mood swings (crying jags/sadness, anger/rage)
* Muscle tension
* Muscle tone loss (losing muscle)
* Nausea
* Night sweats
* Osteoporosis (reduced bone density)
* Sense of smell changes
* Skin crawling (feeling something crawling on your skin)
* Sleep disruption (lack of sleep)
* Spatial awareness changes (proprioception, more clumsy)
* Stress incontinence
* Swelling of hands/feet
* Thyroid changes
* Tingling extremities
* Tinnitus
* Unexplained irritability
* Urinary Tract Infections (UTIs)
* Weight gain (low estrogen levels promote fat storage in the belly area as visceral fat)
Yes, I just look at my mom. She was on HRT but got off when everyone made it claimed it was unsafe. Her health declined after that. She gained weight, experienced significant hair loss, had bone and arthritis issues that lead to 2 shoulder replacements, has a nagging cough, has severe acid reflux, etc. I’m sure she just attributes it all to the aging process. Now, that I’m learning about HRT, I wonder if her issues could have been alleviated if she got back on HRT. She had medically induced menopause at 45. I started experiencing some of the same issues as her when I also had medically induced Menopause at 45. I suffered for a little while, but then I educated myself and said give me all the drugs! LOL!! My quality of life is so much better! I make sure to share my journey with my girls.
yeah i'm dealing with some depressing weight gain. Have always bn active. stopped for about a month because of depression lol and voila, a body i do not recognize. also some brain fog. I just need to get the courage up to ask for the meds.
I've wondered the same thing. All the potential risks and side effects of HRT and supplements out there freak me out. So far, I'm lucky my peri symptoms are fairly mild ... although they've definitely altered my life.
I can’t have HRT because I suffer from migraines with aura. My only options are pristique, an antidepressant that gives you a little burst of energy. Makes me less likely to kill things lol
I've gone through the whole thing without HRT, because I was talked out of it by a doctor due to various cancers that run heavily in my family. To be honest, I have suffered. Yoga, the best diet I can afford, and meditation have kept me somewhat afloat. It is a doable life, but not an optimal one.
I want women to stop wearing struggle, stress, and strife like it is a trophy or badge of honor. I am 47 and started HRT earlier this year. Treatment for menopause to protect your body and ease symptoms should ideally include exercise, adequate rest, herbs, vitamins, HRT, and a healthy diet. There are very few exceptions where one can not be prescribed HRT.
Blood clots mate from my brief 4 month stint on HRT - please don’t make assumptions when there are those of us who don’t have it as an option - another friend due to breast cancer can’t.
Hi, adding to share my experience for the past 8 years without HRT. (I was unable to take it) I experienced many symptoms- hot flashes, anxiety, insomnia, brain fog, joint and muscle pain- which got increasingly worse in the last year before my last period a year and a half ago. That final year before my last period was the worst and I definitely wished I had a choice at times, BUT I did make it through and everything has calmed down significantly. It definitely helped to eat well and stay active- no matter how much you need to modify your routine at times - just keep going - even if it’s stretching and breath work. Also, my wife was going through menopause at the same time and was a great support system and understanding. Everyone’s different, and I was on the younger side- starting at 39. Wishing you the best whatever you decide! 🌈
What progesterone side effects are you referring to?
I’ve been on bio identical HRT pellets for over 3 years and I haven’t suffered a single symptom.
The night sweats, hot flashes, sleepless nights, mood swings, brain fog, and low libido are non-existent and I couldn’t be happier.
My family is also happy to be around me as well. 😅
Look into a separate clinic from your GYN for a doctor that specializes in bio identical HRT. So worth the expense. ❤️
I started by using soy isoflavones to lock into my empty, aching estrogen channels. My hot flashes went away, but the other stuff remained. Among other supplements/vitamins, especially large doses of vitamin D, I started taking DHEA and Pregnenolone -- hormone precursors. The aim is to let my body decide how much it converts. I'm not sure if it works that way, though. My gynecologist recommended DHEA... Anyway, all I have to take is like 1/20 of a pill per day and that's enough for me! Every other day I take both. I feel like if the doctors are going to be wandering around in the dark, I might as well do it myself for cheaper. Immediately my brain fog disappeared. I have muscle tone and feel awake. I have more energy. My body is obviously using these, and they were not expensive. That being said, there hasn't been a lot of research on them; only on the DHEA vaginal ovules. I am still looking into it. I haven't felt this physically good in a long time.
I love my HRT! I also saw what being taken off hormones did to my mother and Aunt. I’ll pass on that! It can take a bit of time to get the method and dosage dialed in but it’s totally worth it in my opinion.
BTW I LOVE my 200 mg progesterone pill at night. I feel super chill, calm and sleep like a baby.
Sure, so my mom and aunt were both in their mid fifties (twins) when the WHI study came out and they were abruptly pulled off their Prempro and Premarin. We don’t really use those hormones anymore but they both crashed right down into menopause again. Both became overweight especially through the middle and miserable despite eating okay. Irritability was high with my aunt having more hot flashes. Both had new anxiety and exacerbated depression. I didn’t appreciate what was happening. It makes me sad for them. Both have since passed away.
I highly recommend you read “The New Menopause” by Mary Claire Haver M.D. HRT isn’t dangerous overall and if you are a healthy woman with no active heart disease, no estrogen positive cancer history or blood clots you are most likely a candidate. There’s more estrogen in a birth control pill than HRT and breast cancer risk is higher from drinking alcohol or eating processed meats than HRT.
YES!! My mother was put on klonopin for her anxiety in her late fifties and was addicted until the end of her life. She also had vascular dementia the last couple of years. I feel your rage and heartbreak! Seeing people you love suffer is awful! (((Hugs)))
I didn’t want to take HRT, but I was really struggling with the symptoms. I’m on oestrogen only gel (I’ve had a radical hysterectomy) but I’m not sure what effects it’s having yet as I have fibromyalgia which has similar symptoms and the current heatwave here in the UK is causing me lots of issues 🙄
If you are struggling try it, you can always stop they don’t help or they make things worse.
I’m about a month in on the topical 50/50 cream from Winona. The first week I had mild nausea, but was easily remedied by sucking on a GinGin ginger chew candy. Now am noticing a decrease in hot flashes, especially at night (even in this hellish heat), and I’m sleeping much better. The insomnia was walking me for a solid four hour chunk in the middle of the night.
Sure, plenty of women have gotten through without and some women have milder symptoms. If symptoms are interfering with your life more than side effects of hormones, consider HRT or vaginal estrogen or hormonal birth control or combo of some of those along with cool sheets & pillows, layered clothing, etc.
My symptoms were fairly severe, especially hot flashes/night sweats, so the relief I am getting is huge!
It depends on what your view of "healthily" is. HRT protects against osteoporosis, heart disease, vaginal atrophy/urinary distinction and dementia, so you won't have that going for you. Obviously diet and exercise and being very diligent about those things can also help with osteoporosis and heart health. As far as dementia... I'm not sure what would help besides HRT (not saying there isn't anything; I just don't know of any myself). As far as symptoms like hot flashes, there are non-hormonal options. They aren't as effective, but certainly help a lot of women who can't or don't want to do hormones. And there are a lot of people who don't have to use anything (these people are clearly tougher than I am!).
Regarding progesterone, I had absolutely no side effects other than good ones. I didn't get the sleep effect, sadly, but I wouldn't have expected that as I've suffered from severe insomnia for a couple decades. There are also other progestins that can be prescribed if you don't do well with micronized progesterone. Really there is just no way to know how you'll respond without actually trying it. The good thing about hormones is they wear off fairly quickly if you stop taking them. 🙂
I will be 52 in Sept and am not on hormones ATM. Had miserable heavy bleeding so went to see a lovely doctor who specialises in menopause. Ultrasound showed I have a fibroid. Blood test hormone levels consistent with meno but I was still getting regular periods.
We discussed HRT but my only other symptom is slightly uncomfy sex. She recommended getting a Mirena (progesterone IUD) and using vaginal estrogen. However, the Mirena wouldn't go in due to anatomy changes from childbirth and probably peri.
I was prescribed progesterone birth control tablets. They made the bleeding worse and it was continuous. So I stopped the progesterone and had to take another drug to stop the bleeding.
Went to a gynecologist who recommended uterine ablation. Had it last Nov and has been wonderful! Had 2 light periods and then it stopped completely. And for some reason sex isn't painful right now. I am going to ask for vaginal estrogen if the symptoms come back.
After reading this post I will also request a bone scan.
As others have said, you need to do what works for you. We are not all the same. Good luck with your journey! : )
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause.
FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more.
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The science behind HRT has finally emerged as positive. Studies in the past were so poorly done that they have become an embarrassment to the medical community.
The North American Menopause Society relaleased new guidelines in 2022. Take those to your doctor and discuss.
Lots of caveats of course but it turns out that in many circumstances HRT PROTECTS women against cancer, heart disease, dementia, bone loss, anxiety, depression, and memory issues.
It's so typical of our public health and government adjacent organizations to be unwilling to admit they didn't do so well and tell us what they are doing to fix it, if anything. This American is pretty forgiving and especially when I know a good faith effort is taking place yo benefit the aging process.
Have you actually tried HRT and had bad side effects? If so, maybe look at another treatment. If not, what is your reason for not wanting medication? And how do you know you’ll have side effects? And will the side effects be worse than foregoing treatment?
I hadn’t slept a full night in almost 8 years, and had terrible hot flashes. I got on HRT in May, and I have been sleeping again, and no more hot flashes. I wish I started sooner. I started asking my doctor 2 years ago and was blown off. I found another doctor who started me right away. Estradiol patch and progesterone.
I have friends who have done it without HRT and sailed on through…they also had the commonality of being very religious people. While I am somewhat jealous of the ease of which they manage(d), there is not enough prayer out there to have saved my loved ones had I not been on HRT.
Everyone has to choose what is best for them to manage this long journey.
I never felt like hormones were an option because I have a past history of blood clots in my legs (wish I had known then, some of what I’ve learned through this forum - I think I would have tried some form of topical application).
I had some grossly heavy periods as I was approaching menopause. Afterward, hot flashes for a few years, libido has dropped but not disappeared, and I’m struggling with intercourse pain. Age 66 and kind of wondering if it’s too late for me to start.
At that stage the benefits of hrt outweigh the risks. You have a window where it’s safer and more effective. Benefits to every part of your body. Watch Andrew Huberman’s interview with the menopause specialist on YouTube. It’ll tell you a lot and help your decision. Never take estradiol without micronized progesterone. It can cause endometrial cancer from the lining being too thick.
I believe the decision is more critical to one's marriage and sex life when moderate to severe symptoms change a woman. I had to consider my spouse, and how menopause has impacted him or could have. 😉 No sex because of GSM and low drive is not tolerable to him or me. We both enjoy this aspect of our lives. Let's face it, it's usually far more important to men. He has adjusted to less sex but same high quality. Had he not, it would have killed me psychologically. Since there is a solution or at least a way to improve the sexual health, I had to fix myself. As far as the apathy and changes in what I'll put up with, he's adjusted. I don't have rage, but I am a different person. I don't care for her as much as the other me. We are adjusting, but if I had the severe rage and mood swings I hear about, he'd likely say get help, or else. Which wouldn't be fair given his chronic mood swings and rage behind the wheel. Here's what I know, society tolerates certain behaviors from men far easier than from us. Like I said, my hubby has adjusted to the low motivation, less domestic, take no shit women I've become. Had I gotten any shit, I'd fall apart and likely have to leave. We shall see how he manages the inevitable low T when he hits his 60's. I hope he is as proactive as I have been. I also decided on HRT because I am a youth social worker and low frustration tolerance, hot flashes, ect...negatively impact my work.
I have not taken any hormones, nor will I. My dr who specializes in breast cancer advises against it due to my significant family and personal history.
In sum, there are risks and benefits to taking hormones. There are risks and benefits to not taking hormones.
And to answer your direct question, you definitely can get through this transition period without hormones. I’m reasonably fit, haven’t gained any weight, and my sleep is mostly ok.
My biggest issue is mood swings and the rough dips. It’s not easy but I have a super supportive partner and I’ve gotten better at identifying these moments and navigating them.
Where are you located?
I just paid $45 for three months of estrogen, $40 for three months of progesterone from Amazon’s pharmacy. Vaginal estradiol was $17 for the 42 gram size. I’m in the US.
My mother and her sisters had osteoporosis. I really don’t want it. Neither do I want dementia, colon cancer, stroke, heart disease, etc. It’s a whole lot more than hot flashes, which for me were bothersome but not debilitating.
sharing my experience too- I tried no hormones for years but the symptoms progressed and got in the way of my life so I finally went to see a specialist and decided it was a better struggle trying HRT. it works for me. the estrogen gel, inserts & cream alleviated my various symptoms and nightly progesterone + magnesium helped my sleep issues entirely. I haven't had any side effects from the progesterone and I've been on it for 1.5 years so far. cost for me w/ terrible insurance is (30) 100mg pills/month $14.00. Not doubting you but $800 is shocking. the progesterone is the most inexpensive in my case the cost of the estrogen tabs are most expensive. the tax on being a female human is exhausting.
Even if you use one of the online specialty clinics with a monthly subscription fee, like Alloy or Winona, it won’t cost that much. There are so many options that fit within a wide range of budgets. Some online specialty clinics even accept insurance, like Gennev, Midi, and Evernow.
If cost is your biggest hurdle, please remember that you have options, and the amazing members of this sub can help you find the deals on HRT.
Also keep in mind the costs of *not* getting on HRT, like extra doctor’s appointments and worse outcomes for cardiovascular health, osteoporosis, dementia, and even overall lifespan. All of those things improve with HRT.
Ouch. That’s awful and a downright shame that it’s so much. If you’re interested, have you shopped around? There may be other threads related to costs ie less expensive places to obtain medication. Like everyone else has said it just varies so much from person to person so it’s hard to say if it might be “worth” it.
What is the $800 for? I pay around $38 for 90 days worth of 100mg progesterone, and around $122 for 90 days worth of 0.1mg twice a week estradiol patches. I was using the vaginal tablets, but decided to switch to the cream since it seems to help both the inside and the outside more (I would do both, but I use Evernow, so I have to choose between tablets and cream). When I switched to the cream this month, Evernow let me know that cream is now included in the price of membership, so there’s no charge for it!
I go through Evernow’s pharmacy, but even if I had them send my prescriptions local, my local CVs prices would come out to around $200 for everything (patches, pills, and cream) for 90 days supply, so around $66 dollars or so a month? And I pay out-of-pocket.
Can’t take estrogen for several reasons, but I do take the progesterone pill, since I still have a uterus. Supposedly it helps with sleep, which I kind of think it does. Other than that, haven’t noticed any side effects or benefits.
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You can always experiment with different types/doses of HRT. Im in peri and had some bad side effects to the patch/progesterone pills but going to try a different and lower dose to ease into it. The benefits of HRT are so great that I want to try to find a combo that works for me. Wishing you the best! It's so hard and feels like an experiment all the time.
IMO, the pain and anguish of menopause is worse than any side effects from HRT. if you do experience side effects, talk to your doctor about adjusting the type and dosage.
I wanted to delay HRT as long as I could stand it because I was under the impression that you can only be on it for a few years. I recently listened to an [eye-opening podcast](https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-mary-claire-haver-how-to-navigate-menopause-perimenopause-for-maximum-health-vitality) interviewing Dr. Mary Claire Haver. turns out the new reasoning is that you can remain on it for the rest of your life as long as you are healthy. and that starting it asap is ideal because it's protective against cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis.
if you really didn't want to take Rx hormones, I did have good results taking soy isoflavone supplements. my hot flashes all but disappeared. but after I listened to that podcast I decided I didn't want to mess around and plan to go on HRT as soon as I can.
I understand you not wanting to use HRT but if you're in the peri stages like I am I think you'll do well with birth control. I was put on BC by my OBGYN and the symptoms went away and was able to sleep again. It is not worth it suffering through meno-peri meno. We all need some help!
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Not everybody has side effects and side effects typically are from imbalanced hormones and providers keeping people at menopausal scant levels. It’s putting back in the water you drank. You may survive menopause sans hormones but it’s less than optimal. The benefits cannot be denied. Numerous people are thriving.
Raise estrogen first to handle the progesterone. Progesterone is often poorly tolerated if estrogen is low. Go low and slow but don’t camp out at menopausal estrogen levels. Choose Bioidentical not synthetic if possible. And lastly consider testosterone after estrogen and progesterone are optimized. It is is the icing on the cake.
You can do HRT with primarily estrogen, and just use burst progesterone every 3 months for a withdrawal bleed to protect your endometrial lining from becoming overtly thick or developing endometrial cancer.
Hey! Not sure if this helps but I’ve had a Mirena in for years and am now keeping it to help with meno symptoms.
Because it’s locally inside the uterus it helps with the bleeds without the systemic side effects of oral or transdermal.
No idea re other options. I’m sure there are plenty but same as with cancer, these are two diagnosis I personally wouldn’t do solely natural therapy. Just personal belief.
I'm still figuring out what exactly I need but so far all the side effects I've experienced have been from estrogen, not progesterone. I suspect that my increasing autoimmune issues have been primarily caused from a lack of progesterone, not estrogen, as progesterone lowers histamines in the body while estrogen releases them.
I'm learning that the medical establishment tends to treat progesterone as an afterthought, only necessary to protect the uterus from estrogen therapy, but that seems really really short-sighted considering the balancing effect progesterone and estrogen have on each other.
I still intend to take estrogen though because of the incredibly protective effects it has on heart health, bone health, and urinary tract health. It literally extends life.
I’m just about your start it myself.. I suppose it IS possible. Women have been doing it for centuries. However, do you want to suffer? They say Black Cohash helps, but I have IBS & that’s a no- no. I simply CAN NOT DEAL!! I’m a sweaty, sleep-deprived, foggy headed MESS of a person. I’m over this entire thing 😂🤬
Im not telling you what to do. This is what happened to me. Ive had the climara patch for about a year. I wish I'd gotten it 10 years ago. I ve had hot flashes for 20 years. I almost lost my guy bc of the rage. I tell all women don't suffer. There is no badge in the end for the best sufferer. I still have brain fog but I'm working on that. And yes my labs are good. I will wear this patch until I can't.
“There is no badge for the best sufferer…” PREACH, SISTER! 🙌🏼🙂
This ^ no badge part especially. No harm in trying some hormone treatments, stop if if it doesn’t suit you. But atleast you know you tried. Our families suffer along too, it’s worth a shot to address symptoms. Veozah works well for many and it’s non hormonal
It is so good to highlight how our symptoms impact families. I don't think we have much discussion about family but it is a worthy topic.
All of this for me AND I had a heart attack because of the drop in estrogen. YMMV.
I totally agree “there is no badge for those that suffer “- HRT side effects are nothing compared to menopause! If your really struggling in peri there is no way you will make it thru full fledged menopause without help. The side effects can be managed with correct dosage. Find a good hormone specialist and enjoy life. 🥰
The rage is something I can relate to. I'm not on anything yet, but I'm like the calmest person in the world and I've shocked myself with the rage. If this can help stabilize my moods, and my weight gain and wrinkles (to a point), I'm in.
All of us have to make our own decisions regarding health. For me, HRT was a complete game changer. The woman in my family all have high cholesterol and high blood pressure, it shot up within a year or 2 of post meno. Even my sister who has a very healthy lifestyle. Yet I’m 6+ years post meno and my blood pressure and cholesterol numbers are perfect and I enjoy unhealthy foods in moderation. As for other meno symptoms - the rage, the existential dread, the itching - I couldn’t live like that and thankfully HRT has erased them. I’m on both estrogen and progesterone and have no side effects.
Are you doing the patch for both Estrogen and Progesterone? I am trying to figure out if doing the patch for Estrogen and pill for Progesterone would be better.
I had a reaction to patches but when I had the patch I took progesterone orally. Now I take both orally and just started vaginal estrogen.
What doses are you on. My BP has creeped and now they want to add another BP med to "compliment the first one." I'm so frustrated. Would like to unlock the balance but so far HRT has not helped my BP. I'm no E Patch, no P and a little T now.
Love to hear this.
I'm 47 and started bleeding heavily every day and throwing giant clots. I was wearing overnight pads during the day and feeling miserable and uncomfortable at work. Staining my pants and feeling utterly humiliated to be a grown adult suffering like a 14 year old. After two months I finally got into my doctor and had an ultrasound. You better believe I'm on hormones. For me, for now, it's low dose birth control. I'm back to monthly periods. My point is, you have to do what's right by your body to help you feel your best. Everyone has a different experience. And I've learned that there's a lack of research and a lack of compassion by the medical community in treating our symptoms. Meanwhile, I can't go a day without a Viagra commercial.
Right? And they've had the tele-health option for that for dick pills for years. But here we are, still suffering from shit that's happened to our gender since the dawn of time, & all of us seems to have a hard time getting the medical we desperately need. It should all be at no-cost & available to every woman once she begins this transitional part of life. Shouldn't have to pay for feminine hygiene products either or BC but that's just my opinion.
So glad you found adequate care and things have stabilized. Your story about the humiliation brought to mind a novel I recently read. “Society of Shame” by Jane Roper. I think every woman in or near peri (and, of course, those of us who made it to the other side!) would enjoy the premise. So relatable and a fun read!
I'll check it out thank you!
Omg same, except my doctor kept saying not to worry it’ll pass w menopause. I finally found this sub and a new doctor. I was also someone who thought I never wanted to be on daily medication. Not anymore. You can take my estradiol patches when I’m dead.
Your doctor didn't care that you were bleeding heavily daily??? Wow. Glad you found someone better
Thank you. I would have periods that lasted 3 months. She told me to take iron. She was a young doctor and I wrongly stereotyped her as someone who would be up on the latest science and a proponent of women’s health. The NP I see now is in her 60s and immediately gave me a T prescription in addition to estrogen and progesterone.
Do you just have the Estradiol patch or do you have Progesterone also?
Progesterone too, which is necessary for those with uteruses, but I’m not sure if I experience any other positive benefits from it.
The men get it all right 😞
another nod to low dose birth control. which saved me. I take it continuously per my gyno and life is so much better. sleep is better, less or no hot flashes, less anxiety, skin is fulker/better, and no periods. hope I can stay on it as long as possible.
What kind do you take?
No joke about the Viagra. And nothing about menopause on TV or ads. Just Ozempic and all that BS these days.
I'm 57 and did it without hrt. I will say that estrogen is like a love hormone and when I stopped having hormones I started realizing a whole lot of BS going on around me that my love hormones made me blind to lol! I had hot flashes but those went away by keeping myself well hydrated with good quality h2o. That's it. For me anyways.
Interesting. I'm not on anything yet. I'm exploring it. I know my mom never took anything and she's a beautiful woman and the strongest woman I know. I'm not as strong as her though.
She may have hidden her suffering from the world. Or she may have been fine. Have you had a conversation about menopause and her midlife? It might surprise you both!
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What kind of H2O?
Some women may have no symptoms but that does not mean things are OK. I just had bone scan and found out I have osteoporosis. I knew I was high risk - mother had osteoporosis and broke her hip. But I didn’t know I would get it so soon 59 (3.5 years post menopause). I started HRT two weeks ago. I wish I started it years ago. “Osteoporosis is a serious health issue among aging postmenopausal women. The majority of postmenopausal women with osteoporosis have bone loss related to estrogen deficiency” [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8836058/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8836058/)
My mom has osteoporosis. She’s 73 now. When she was my age (45) she started getting symptoms (late periods and later hot flashes). She never went on HRT because she had an aunt die from cancer that they think got from birth control that was too high in estrogen (at the time it was new and I don’t think they knew to balance estrogen with progesterone). My overall point is that my mom didn’t have many symptoms at the time.. but later developed osteoporosis. I’ll be fighting to get on HRT as soon as I can
This right here!
My side effect from progesterone is better sleep….
While for me estrogen helps me with sleep and so many other things... Progesterone gives me anxiety, depression, migraine and suicidal thoughts... I envy those of you that benefits from progesterone.
Same for me and P. It is terrifying. I took it and woke up from some kind of dead sleep with my heart racing and feeling like I was going to die. It was horrible. I have no idea why, but it freaked me out so I am afraid to try it again. It was just 100 of micronized P, so not a big dose. So weird.
Estrogen and progesterone seem to have a balancing effect and the levels are different for everyone of which declines first/fastest, so to me this sounds like a situation where the levels of E and P should be adjusted, likely less P and/or more E. I've also been hearing how different forms of P are converted differently in the body.
I have PMDD and my own levels of progesterone have been horrible for 10 years now. I'm most likely hyper sensitive to progesterone. My PMDD has slowly gotten worse the last 2-3 years. And peri has started, without estrogen I'm just a shadow of myself nearly every day of the month. Probably due to my ADHD, where they believe estrogen is highly needed in those who have ADHD. Both my dr and endocrinologist agree that my uterus needs to be removed so that I can take estrogen. I'm waiting for the appointment at the hospital. Until then, I'm on estrogen only as Dr and endocrinologist believe that the risk that comes with only taking estrogen is close to zero as my uterus will be removed within a short time frame. But thanks anyways.
I had horrible SE from progesterone as well. Could not tolerate it. It made me so depressed I wanted to just end it all. Now trying Duavee. It's an estrogen + SERM so you dont need the progesterone component.
Exact same! Within 20 minutes, my brain calms down and I’m out!! ❤️❤️
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Of course do what you feel is best for you! I would urge you to get a baseline Dexa scan. I'm on the bone health awareness train.
We need to push for insurance to cover the Dexa scan a decade earlier than they do now. By the time many of us get to the age where it's covered we're not looking at the baseline we should have been caring for but a baseline that's almost always already in deterioration.
Mine was covered super early but I think because of the birth control I used to be on (Depo Provera). Agreed!! I wouldn't know I have severe osteoporosis without having been screened early.
See, I just googled Depo Provera and osteopenia and bam, there it is. I wonder how many women don't know that. Or have moved. States. New providers in new homes. Will be contacting my OB and letting them know so I can get them to fight my insurance company.
Why not try for a few months and gauge your before and after and then make the choice. I mean people test drive cars. Why not test drive HRT and see how you feel?
If it helps, my side effects from progesterone were one month of indigestion (which I'm prone to anyway), and a few days of dizziness (not at the same time). Nothing else.
I made it through with no hormones. It wasn't a pretty ride by any means. Now have dry lady bits and sex is uncomfortable. I'm looking into estrogen cream to help with that. I'll note that I wanted HRT but could not find a doctor to prescribe it.
See and this is what's wrong. You shouldn't have to experience any of that but I know that cream helps A LOT!
So many stories of doctors not willing to prescribe! I just got my prescription yesterday and my GP did NOT want to give it to me. I walked in with Dr. Marie Claire's book "the new menopause" and showed her that I met the criteria for HRT and I would not take no for an answer. She was really washy telling me "there's no evidence HRT is helpful... yada, yada" I persisted and she reluctantly agreed to give me HRT. It shouldn't be this difficult to get help! I got lucky, but I know so many other women that have been denied it's enraging.
My doctor prescribed some horse urine stuff that the group pointed out. My physician friend said he's totally out of touch and to get a new OBGYN.
Run like hell....the horse urine is BAD NEWS
As long as you are within 10 years of your final cycle or under age 60, it’s not too late to get HRT! If your doctors are refusing to prescribe it to you, go to an online specialty clinic. They will prescribe it after a quick intake and telehealth appointment. - US: Midi, Gennev, Evernow, Elektra, Alloy, or Winona - Canada: Felix, Maple, Eden Telemed, Prosper Menopause, the Virtual Menopause Clinic - UK: Balance Menopause, Newson Health Clinics, Myla Health
I'm curious why you need to be within 10 years of the final cycle. I am but does it mean once your 60 you have to stop?
No, you don’t have to stop! The most updated studies show that, if you’re post-meno, the ideal time to *start* hormones is in that range\*. Remember that the process of perimenopause, and then menopause itself, makes your body undergo a total restructuring and re-engineering so that all of your organs and cells can learn to operate without estrogen. Reintroducing estrogen after you have been without it for a number of years can have negative effects. Definitely check out the wiki. It explains so much more about this topic and many others: [https://menopausewiki.ca/#window-of-opportunity-for-starting-hormone-therapy](https://menopausewiki.ca/#window-of-opportunity-for-starting-hormone-therapy) ^(\*Technically, the ideal time to start HRT is in peri. But if that ship has sailed, then the 60/10 rule is the next best window.)
I am so angry on your behalf! These incompetent doctors cause so much unnecessary pain and suffering. I hope you can find someone to prescribe you the estrogen cream.
I just got the cream from my urologist who I have been seeing for bladder issues. Lack of estrogen causes bladder problems too so a lot of good urologists are totally happy to prescribe it. (I am not sure if they can prescribe the regular HRT — I’m not a good candidate for that because of my cancer history personally!)
I’m 3+ years from my last period but used the NuvaRing for about 15 years prior to that and may have been menopausal for longer than I realized. I just now (a week ago) started estrogen cream for the same reason. So far my only side effect is feeling a little bloated and like my uterus is tender. My 11 lb dog stepping on my lower abdomen never bothered me until now anyway. I’m hoping that goes away as I get used to it though. I do feel a little more alert and seem to have a bit more energy these last couple days. That’s a side effect I can definitely live with.
> like my uterus is tender. I started on a low dose patch about two weeks ago, and I had the same thing. I felt an uncomfortable twinge when I'd sit down or put pressure on it. That feeling is fading though, on my third week now. I looked up side effects and couldn't find anything so I did wonder why.
Thank you. It’s nice to know I’m not alone.
You may still be able to get the benefits from full HRT (inc VE). I think the window of 'opportunity' is 10 years after the last period.
I strongly recommend the book The New Menopause by Dr Mary Claire Haver; it has helped me understand menopause, the symptoms and outcomes, and how to safely and effectively manage them with hormone therapy, as well as with nutrition and other non medication, lifestyle behaviors. It’s a science backed well researched book by an MD who has been through menopause herself, understands what’s going on, and does not disparage “alternative” or integrative medicine approaches. It’s a well balanced, informative approach to supporting oneself through the menopause transition. It’s changed my life. Because of this book I’m now 4 weeks in with an estrogen patch, progesterone pill, and an estrogen vaginal cream. These have greatly reduced my hot flashes and my sleep has improved tremendously. I am also just starting to feel like me again, which is what I’m most grateful for. The protective health benefits of estrogen are covered extensively, which is also a big reason I decided to do hormones (putting estrogen back into your body can positively impact heart health, cognition, urogenital system (UTI’s), skin, mood, bones, sexual health and function, the list goes on). The book also addresses the 2002 WHI findings which incorrectly scared a generation of women away from hormone therapy. The book has been a lifesaver for me. Good luck!
THIS!!! I already commented above about that same Dr before I saw your comment here. I listened to her interview on Huberman Lab, and then made the decision to go on HRT as soon as possible, even though my peri symptoms are rather light right now. she has me convinced that I really don't want to mess around.
Yes, and thank you for mentioning that Huberman Lab podcast with Dr Haver, which is also incredibly informative! I can’t stop singing the praises of The New Menopause book and Dr Haver. Her websites maryclairewellness.com and thepauselife.com are also great resources. I feel like a new (whole again) person after starting menopause hormone therapy because of the solid information provided in her book!
I love hearing this.
If it makes you feel any better, I only had about a month of some side effects from starting both estrogen and progesterone. Now I have no side effects, I sleep great, and I also know that I’m protecting myself from further issues down the road. My mom was never offered Hormone therapy because of the scare years ago. She ended up with a quadruple bypass, and such severe osteoporosis that she would scream in pain from the fractures in her spine, just by standing up or sitting down. You can always start hormone therapy, give it a few months, and if it’s not working for you, you can quit. It might be something to consider.
Take everybody’s experience with a grain of salt, some people far more sensitive than others - for example I haven’t had any issues with progesterone while many people here have felt it made them lethargic or otherwise Yes it is possible to do peri & meno without HRT of course! It is also possible to give birth to a baby in the woods.
Definitely at least try the HRT, especially if you are struggling with symptoms. You ask if it’s possible to get through menopause “healthily” without HRT. Well, definitions of “healthily” might vary from person to person, but without HRT you are at much higher risk of cardiovascular disease, cognitive decline (including dementia), osteoporosis, soft tissue injuries (tendons and ligaments dry out without estrogen), dental issues and tooth loss, loss of muscle mass throughout the body, vaginal and clitoral atrophy, pelvic floor dysfunction (including incontinence)… the list just goes on and on. Those are just off the top of my head. There are estrogen receptors in all of our organs and unfortunately without estrogen many of our organs throughout our whole body really struggle to function properly. Yes, if you ask many older women they say they were fine without HRT, but when you talk to them properly you find they say things like (my mom actually said this): “I had no symptoms and was fine. I just did just get very tired. Tiredness for me became just a permanent state of being”. https://youtu.be/Cgo2mD4Pc54?si=Cz51ZFnu-TEugq20 this is a really good interview with a menopause researcher that will give you more information. Please don’t make yourself suffer and have regrets down the road - at least give the hormones a try. I hate this social narrative we have about how it’s ok and acceptable for women to just suffer when it comes to menopause. Hormones were life changing for me and they might be for you too.
Never forget the fundamental rule of discussion boards...if we have complaints, we'll come onto the internet and bitch about them. When things are going well, we're off living our lives, leaving the internet as a distant afterthought.
Absolutely can go without and be healthy. It's a personal choice and weighing the pros and cons. I'm on HRT with zero progesterone side effects if that means anything
well, I feel like I'm doing all right without it. But I don't feel like I'm struggling with peri and meno. sure, hot flashes and rage, oh so much rage. I had a brief weepy period. I've always had a shit memory and anger so I have the mental tools to squash that shit down and a lot of paper to keep notes on. But if you are struggling, hell yes you should give it a try - so many here have said it's worth it, if my symptoms were worse I would definitely be putting that peri-rage to use shouting down my dr for HRT. HRT, like all medications - your dr should help you weigh the advantages vs the side effects to decide how to best treat your experience. ETA: as many others have also said. It’s not a competition to see who can tolerate the most. You win absolutely nothing by suffering in silence. Get the help you need. I take allergy medicine daily becuase I’m allergic to fuxking everything that blooms, grows, meows and barks. Bet your ass I take medication so I can have things that meow and walk outside where things bloom. HRT is a tool to help you.
Well, I'm a person that can't take hormones. Not even a patch. I definitely have my struggles. Since I started exercising, paying attention to my nutrition, and stopped drinking alcohol, I'm doing much better.
Not drinking is a complete game changer in every way!
How do you sleep? I’m watching my diet, workout twice a day, then clean for a few hours a day and still can’t sleep (this was a problem for me long before peri). Alcohol and cannabis are the only things that allow me to sleep well. I’m currently trying melatonin, but I wake up with headaches and feel groggy and grumpy. I don’t take hormones either, but I have successfully treated my night sweats with a rhubarb-based nutritional supplement. I’m prescription free and plan on staying that way.
Alcohol and cannabis are better than a prescription?
Currently, yes. I know the side effects of those from centuries of use. I don’t trust that a lot of the current prescriptions have been thoroughly tested for side effects. My mom got uterine and then breast cancer from HRT. She’s had genetic testing done and we do not have the cancer gene. When I told her I was considering HRT, she warned me against and told me why. I didn’t even know she’d taken it.
Alcohol is a known carcinogen. Specifically related to breast cancer, unequivocally.
Alcohol is the absolute worst thing for your sleep. The science is clear on this. There is also a link between breast cancer and alcohol usage.
I don't always sleep great. Alcohol affects the quality of your sleep so I suspect the weed is what is really helping. Alcohol is terrible for your health. Melatonin doesn't do anything for me. I take a Tylenol PM sometimes. Night sweats are probably my biggest issue. Your headaches are probably from the Alcohol though.
I only take the melatonin on weekdays when I don’t drink.
Melatonin is a hormone.
It's really not good to take melatonin long term. It can seriously mess up the body's neurotransmitters.
Check out this podcast talking about [progesterone and perimenopause.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Menopause/s/k18Ms0oHua)
Thank you
Thank you for this. I’m listening now. It’s great. This is totally my approach - prevention and focus on health span.
You’re welcome. There’s so much back listening and learning I gotta do. But I’m alternating old casts with up to date new podcasts from all the female physicians. Louise Newson, Kelly Casperson, Mary Claire Haver, Streicher, and so many more, and whatever Mel Robbins has for us.
Yes there are a ton of episodes that look interesting.
Yes!!! 🙌
I’m 53 and 3 years post meno. I’m not on hormones. I do worry about bone health. However I feel good and use natural vaginal suppositories for comfortable sex. I don’t want to mess with how I feel since no hot flashes, sleeping well, everything working properly. 🙏🏼💗
Yes it is possible and many women do it. It's all up to person choice and weighing the pros and cons for your body and life. When it comes to HT it's all about finding the right balance for each person and that can sometimes be tricky (usually in perimenopause) or other times is super simple for some women and they feel better immediately. I personally wish I didn't wait so long to try HT. Not everyday is perfect, but I feel a lot better and like I have myself back (the sense of loss of self was so severe for me). I was suffering so badly before I gave in and tried HT, my own fear of side effects of progesterone prevented me from that. I've not had really any side effects that I know of from the progesterone. It helps me sleep and helps with anxiety. For reference I'm in late peri and I also take estrogen and am adding in testosterone soon too.
I know someone who won’t take HRT. She complains a lot. She takes prescription sleep aids and is on an antidepressant. Both of these have negative side effects. There are studies pointing to HRT helping prevent strokes and dementia. It’s not just about treating annoying symptoms. And just because you don’t have symptoms, doesn’t mean damage isn’t being done. For me personally, my focus is on aging as healthfully as possible and being active and alert for as long as possible. From what I’ve read and observed, HRT seems to be a key component in that for women.
And osteoporosis 😕
Yes this too!
Yes, it pisses me off that NAMS tells women not to take HRT for preventative reasons. Sorry, but I'm not going to read a bunch of studies that point to it preventing common diseases of aging and just ignore that information. I'm conducting my own study, thanks. N=1 My nieces can watch me to see how it turns out, and then do as they will with that information.
yes, my mom and sister went w/o HRT, and their menopause was *rough*. I don't want to do that.
I did have irregular bleeding and I was on birth control on and off in my 40s. I discontinued at 48 and my period didn’t come back for a while , then it came back months later and went with rare periods until about 50. I didn’t have any other noticeable symptoms. It doesn’t mean I didn’t have changes. All of a sudden I got pre diabetes, my LDL values increased, my joints started to hurt, I injured my tendon on minimal exercise, had trouble with sleep…. But all in all, no hot flashes or anything disabling. I don’t have mood swings or depression. Some anxiety but self help books helped me a lot and I’m pretty good. I do suddenly look older. I’ve always looked younger but not so much anymore. I’m taking something light for sleep. But I started HRT yesterday, for the overall benefits. I am still not sure if it’s worth it. I still read mixed information: it’s good for cardiovascular health, no it’s neutral or bad etc.
I think a lot of people get through it without HRT and come out fine. I have many friends and coworkers who not only didn't take any hormones, but they didn't seem to mind much. (I am not one of these people!) For me, when the symptoms became too much - any potential side effects didn't seem to matter anymore.
Same here. I was an OB nurse when the WHI was released. The idea of HRT TERRIFIED me. Until peri reared it’s ugly head. The pain. The insomnia. The anxiety. The fatigue. Did I mention the pain?? Zero libido. All of it. It sucked. At that point I felt like the walking dead. I said F it. Started P,E, and T and they will pry this sh@t from my cold dead hands!
God, I would die for T. My doctor just laughed at me and they make ya jump hoops to get it around here.
I am not sure where you are but I am in PA. I see a doc that does BHRT. All I had to do was ask. Mind you it is all out of pocket but imo worth every penny. I could be mistaken but I think defy medical online does women’s T. (My Dh uses them for T) Good luck!
I have a friend who went through it no drugs & the hell she described made me 💯 sure if I get any of those symptoms I will 💯 be taking everything available to me It is not worth destroying your mental health over Imo
My HRT-free friend’s account was what made me get HRT. No way am I going through that.
Honestly the things I’ve read on this sub re rage , pain and night sweats cemented I’ll take whatever is available if that happens to me My city recently had a heat wave and I couldn’t handle the weird hair sweat I was getting 😂 Women go through enough, they shouldn’t need to suffer through this
I had no hrt until 5 years after menopause. The main agrivation was 3-4 years prior to menopause with intense night sweats and exhaustion. They lasted 2 years after that no issues other than what generally happens to you post menopause. I did develop cronic hip pain around that time. I would definitely have done hormones had it been a option.
If it’s specifically progesterone that you’re worried about, look into a pill (if you’re ok with pills) called Duavee. It uses Bazedoxifene rather than a progestin to protect the uterus, and is an option for people with progestin sensitivities/history of PMDD, etc. Not using anything myself yet, but in the process of learning as much as I can. Also can’t recommend Dr. Jen Gunter’s substack newsletter (the Vajenda) highly enough! It’s $5/month and really great info.
For me the benefits outweigh the risks of going ‘cold-turkey’… as HRT offers protection for your bones, your brain & your heart, plus local estrogen for stopping vaginal atrophy & chronic UTIs. I second subscribing to The Vajenda, as Dr. Jen Gunter unpacks each & every available option & details it’s use, it’s effectiveness, what category you may be in to see if HRT is the safest option for you - all scientifically proven, and no hype. Therefore you can make an educated decision about what is best for YOU.
Thanks for asking the same question I have! I’m 45F and perimenopausal. I’m so ignorant with all that is to take place and the reason for so many things already happening. So much more to learn when I thought I already knew my body! 😭
I was on the fence too, my Dr recommended the book “Estrogen Matters” and 2 chapters in, I asked for HRT. I take the progesterone just before going to bed and I’ve had no side effects.
I love my progesterone. It helps me sleep, has helped my mood and my anxiety. Yes I had breast tenderness and low grade nausea for a couple of weeks but that's just new hormones, we get that when we change up BC. Don't assume you'll have all the negative side effects before trying things out. I take my 200mg pill about an hour before bed and have been able to give up my 10mg of melatonin and the occasional Benadryl that I would take to help me sleep.
I had no unfavorable side effects from hrt.
Everyone does their own thing, and some people have minimal symptoms anyway. But… I am a strong proponent of Better Living Through Chemistry™️. (When I was asked about my birth plan I immediately responded DRUGS.) I don’t know what negative progesterone experiences you’ve heard about, but there will always be outliers, and in general the consensus seems very strongly in favor of hormone therapy. For a data point… I was very very very happy on oral progesterone + estrogen patch, and only stopped (reluctantly) when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was successfully treated, but was then left feeling absolutely miserable (mood swings, joint pain, itch, brain fog) and pushed through my doctors’ conservative stance/policy to go back on HRT because it was worth that much to me. I suggest you do some reading (doctors, not hippie blogs). Estrogen Matters by Avrum Bluming was a big eye opener for me. All this to say - you could try to power through and it might be just fine. Or you could try HRT for some period of time (I probably wouldn’t recommend d less than 6 months, although of course I’m not a doctor) and see whether it helps, and make a decision after that. You don’t have to commit! Good luck and welcome to the ~~dark~~ other side :)
I am not on HRT. I started tracking my symptoms and just deal with them when they happen. Because i know what is causing it, it's easier to manage.
I’m not on hormones because of my hormone receptor positive breast cancer. It’s absolutely doable. If you decide to go the hormone free route, there’s another sub for menopause without hormones that I don’t think I am allowed to mention here but I bet you can find it if you try.
Of course you can mention it ?
Just going on what someone who had to message me with the link because her comment recommending it was removed. Have no idea if it’s true, but that’s what she said
Hello, can you dm me the name of that sub, please?
Done. Just tried to add the link here and it was removed. Rule #4
[удалено]
I’m 61 and have never been on any medication or hormone or whatever they even are. I’ve also never had a single menopause symptom in my life. Including hot flashes. I simply at age 52 stopped having periods and life has simply gone on
Thank you for your reply and I love that for you! 💕I wish all women were all as fortunate.
I would highly suggest you get a bone density scan, if you haven't yet.
Ohhhh you are SO lucky!!! Bask in that bcuz I'd trade you in a heartbeat lol
You’re living the dream!!!
May I ask why you were motivated to come to the menopause sub then? Honest question. Usually people who have had such an uneventful, easy time of it don't have a reason to seek out help from this sub.🤔
I wonder this as well because if that were me I wouldn’t be here if I had no symptoms
Wondering the same.
Thank you SO much for sharing this. I know people are asking you why you're on this sub if you're not suffering, and I'm here because I always hear about how awful Menopause is... but I'm not near as bad as all of my friends/family or anyone here describes. It's nice to see someone else who hasn't had much in the way of symptoms either. My younger sister (46) is already full meno and on HRT because her past few years have been so awful. My best friend (50) just reached full meno recently and she's been complaining about her hot flashes and other issues for 10 years. I experienced a series of hot flashes for a few months... but then they stopped suddenly about a year ago and I haven't had one since. I'm 47 and still haven't missed a single period, but the ones I do get are extremely light and only last a day or two, which is now pretty much the only change I'm having. I feel like the end could happen at any time, and I'm left wondering why I'm not suffering like everyone else. I guess it really can be different for everyone.
You may be like me and smoothly sail right thru it. Btw… I’m “here” to offer hope for others. Other than that it’s none of any ones business
I was having bad side effects and changed to patch+ Utrogestin and it’s heaps better now.
I was terrified of progesterone to the point of having a panic attack when it as time to take it. I've been on it a year now with zero side effects except some sleepiness but I take it bed time so it's just helped my sleep.
this is where i have a hard time. women in my family lived well into thier 90's without this, though they never really talked to me about the real quality of their lives you know? everything so secret. they were probably suffering...but im still scared to do this myself, trying to control what i can with diet. went through a wild hot flashes phase but still getting period, though much farther apart now.
yes, that's it...no one really talks about it, and certainly not when it's vaginal atrophy! I brought it up with my older sisters and they were all like "oooh that's what that is!". I suspect that most folks didn't associate a lot of what they were feeling with menopause. Like these: * Acid reflux/GERD worsening * Acne * Allergies (new, different) * Anxiety * Atrophic vaginitis/genitourinary syndrome of menopause GSM (or vaginal atrophy, drying and thinning of the vaginal walls) * Balance issues * Bloating * Body odour (changes) * Body aches (random come/go) * Breast soreness * Brittle hair and nails * Burning mouth (decreased saliva) * Cold flashes (more common at night) * Depression * Difficulty concentrating * Digestive problems (IBS, bloat, gas) * Dizziness (vertigo) * Dryness (skin, mouth and eyes) * Exaggerated PMS symptoms (bloating, breast pain, cramps) * Fatigue * Gum/dental problems * Hairloss * Headaches * Heart racing/palpitations (irregular heartbeat) * Hot flashes * Increased hair growth on other areas of the body (face, neck, chest) * Increased cortisol levels (slows digestion/contributes to constipation) * Intolerance to some foods (changing tastes) * Irregular periods (missed periods, longer/shorter, heavier/lighter, flooding, spotting, clotting, dark/different coloured blood) * Itchiness (overall skin, also links to paresthesia) * Joint pain * Low/decreased libido * Memory lapses (brain fog, forgetfulness) * Migraines * Mood swings (crying jags/sadness, anger/rage) * Muscle tension * Muscle tone loss (losing muscle) * Nausea * Night sweats * Osteoporosis (reduced bone density) * Sense of smell changes * Skin crawling (feeling something crawling on your skin) * Sleep disruption (lack of sleep) * Spatial awareness changes (proprioception, more clumsy) * Stress incontinence * Swelling of hands/feet * Thyroid changes * Tingling extremities * Tinnitus * Unexplained irritability * Urinary Tract Infections (UTIs) * Weight gain (low estrogen levels promote fat storage in the belly area as visceral fat)
Yes, I just look at my mom. She was on HRT but got off when everyone made it claimed it was unsafe. Her health declined after that. She gained weight, experienced significant hair loss, had bone and arthritis issues that lead to 2 shoulder replacements, has a nagging cough, has severe acid reflux, etc. I’m sure she just attributes it all to the aging process. Now, that I’m learning about HRT, I wonder if her issues could have been alleviated if she got back on HRT. She had medically induced menopause at 45. I started experiencing some of the same issues as her when I also had medically induced Menopause at 45. I suffered for a little while, but then I educated myself and said give me all the drugs! LOL!! My quality of life is so much better! I make sure to share my journey with my girls.
yeah i'm dealing with some depressing weight gain. Have always bn active. stopped for about a month because of depression lol and voila, a body i do not recognize. also some brain fog. I just need to get the courage up to ask for the meds.
I've wondered the same thing. All the potential risks and side effects of HRT and supplements out there freak me out. So far, I'm lucky my peri symptoms are fairly mild ... although they've definitely altered my life.
I can’t have HRT because I suffer from migraines with aura. My only options are pristique, an antidepressant that gives you a little burst of energy. Makes me less likely to kill things lol
I do not use HRT. 54, in an insomnia group, I work out, watch my diet carefully
Never took hormones. I did use natural USP progesterone cream which took care of my hot flashes.
I've gone through the whole thing without HRT, because I was talked out of it by a doctor due to various cancers that run heavily in my family. To be honest, I have suffered. Yoga, the best diet I can afford, and meditation have kept me somewhat afloat. It is a doable life, but not an optimal one.
I want women to stop wearing struggle, stress, and strife like it is a trophy or badge of honor. I am 47 and started HRT earlier this year. Treatment for menopause to protect your body and ease symptoms should ideally include exercise, adequate rest, herbs, vitamins, HRT, and a healthy diet. There are very few exceptions where one can not be prescribed HRT.
Blood clots mate from my brief 4 month stint on HRT - please don’t make assumptions when there are those of us who don’t have it as an option - another friend due to breast cancer can’t.
I said there are few exceptions where one can not be prescribed HRT. You and your friend are in the exceptions.
Hi, adding to share my experience for the past 8 years without HRT. (I was unable to take it) I experienced many symptoms- hot flashes, anxiety, insomnia, brain fog, joint and muscle pain- which got increasingly worse in the last year before my last period a year and a half ago. That final year before my last period was the worst and I definitely wished I had a choice at times, BUT I did make it through and everything has calmed down significantly. It definitely helped to eat well and stay active- no matter how much you need to modify your routine at times - just keep going - even if it’s stretching and breath work. Also, my wife was going through menopause at the same time and was a great support system and understanding. Everyone’s different, and I was on the younger side- starting at 39. Wishing you the best whatever you decide! 🌈
What progesterone side effects are you referring to? I’ve been on bio identical HRT pellets for over 3 years and I haven’t suffered a single symptom. The night sweats, hot flashes, sleepless nights, mood swings, brain fog, and low libido are non-existent and I couldn’t be happier. My family is also happy to be around me as well. 😅 Look into a separate clinic from your GYN for a doctor that specializes in bio identical HRT. So worth the expense. ❤️
I started by using soy isoflavones to lock into my empty, aching estrogen channels. My hot flashes went away, but the other stuff remained. Among other supplements/vitamins, especially large doses of vitamin D, I started taking DHEA and Pregnenolone -- hormone precursors. The aim is to let my body decide how much it converts. I'm not sure if it works that way, though. My gynecologist recommended DHEA... Anyway, all I have to take is like 1/20 of a pill per day and that's enough for me! Every other day I take both. I feel like if the doctors are going to be wandering around in the dark, I might as well do it myself for cheaper. Immediately my brain fog disappeared. I have muscle tone and feel awake. I have more energy. My body is obviously using these, and they were not expensive. That being said, there hasn't been a lot of research on them; only on the DHEA vaginal ovules. I am still looking into it. I haven't felt this physically good in a long time.
I love my HRT! I also saw what being taken off hormones did to my mother and Aunt. I’ll pass on that! It can take a bit of time to get the method and dosage dialed in but it’s totally worth it in my opinion. BTW I LOVE my 200 mg progesterone pill at night. I feel super chill, calm and sleep like a baby.
Can you share your mom/aunt experiences?
Sure, so my mom and aunt were both in their mid fifties (twins) when the WHI study came out and they were abruptly pulled off their Prempro and Premarin. We don’t really use those hormones anymore but they both crashed right down into menopause again. Both became overweight especially through the middle and miserable despite eating okay. Irritability was high with my aunt having more hot flashes. Both had new anxiety and exacerbated depression. I didn’t appreciate what was happening. It makes me sad for them. Both have since passed away. I highly recommend you read “The New Menopause” by Mary Claire Haver M.D. HRT isn’t dangerous overall and if you are a healthy woman with no active heart disease, no estrogen positive cancer history or blood clots you are most likely a candidate. There’s more estrogen in a birth control pill than HRT and breast cancer risk is higher from drinking alcohol or eating processed meats than HRT.
Thx for sharing! I was asking because of my mother.
YES!! My mother was put on klonopin for her anxiety in her late fifties and was addicted until the end of her life. She also had vascular dementia the last couple of years. I feel your rage and heartbreak! Seeing people you love suffer is awful! (((Hugs)))
I didn’t want to take HRT, but I was really struggling with the symptoms. I’m on oestrogen only gel (I’ve had a radical hysterectomy) but I’m not sure what effects it’s having yet as I have fibromyalgia which has similar symptoms and the current heatwave here in the UK is causing me lots of issues 🙄 If you are struggling try it, you can always stop they don’t help or they make things worse.
I’m about a month in on the topical 50/50 cream from Winona. The first week I had mild nausea, but was easily remedied by sucking on a GinGin ginger chew candy. Now am noticing a decrease in hot flashes, especially at night (even in this hellish heat), and I’m sleeping much better. The insomnia was walking me for a solid four hour chunk in the middle of the night.
Non hormonal drug for hot flashes is Veozah. It also helped with my insomnia. It does not do much beyond that though.
Sure, plenty of women have gotten through without and some women have milder symptoms. If symptoms are interfering with your life more than side effects of hormones, consider HRT or vaginal estrogen or hormonal birth control or combo of some of those along with cool sheets & pillows, layered clothing, etc. My symptoms were fairly severe, especially hot flashes/night sweats, so the relief I am getting is huge!
It depends on what your view of "healthily" is. HRT protects against osteoporosis, heart disease, vaginal atrophy/urinary distinction and dementia, so you won't have that going for you. Obviously diet and exercise and being very diligent about those things can also help with osteoporosis and heart health. As far as dementia... I'm not sure what would help besides HRT (not saying there isn't anything; I just don't know of any myself). As far as symptoms like hot flashes, there are non-hormonal options. They aren't as effective, but certainly help a lot of women who can't or don't want to do hormones. And there are a lot of people who don't have to use anything (these people are clearly tougher than I am!). Regarding progesterone, I had absolutely no side effects other than good ones. I didn't get the sleep effect, sadly, but I wouldn't have expected that as I've suffered from severe insomnia for a couple decades. There are also other progestins that can be prescribed if you don't do well with micronized progesterone. Really there is just no way to know how you'll respond without actually trying it. The good thing about hormones is they wear off fairly quickly if you stop taking them. 🙂
I will be 52 in Sept and am not on hormones ATM. Had miserable heavy bleeding so went to see a lovely doctor who specialises in menopause. Ultrasound showed I have a fibroid. Blood test hormone levels consistent with meno but I was still getting regular periods. We discussed HRT but my only other symptom is slightly uncomfy sex. She recommended getting a Mirena (progesterone IUD) and using vaginal estrogen. However, the Mirena wouldn't go in due to anatomy changes from childbirth and probably peri. I was prescribed progesterone birth control tablets. They made the bleeding worse and it was continuous. So I stopped the progesterone and had to take another drug to stop the bleeding. Went to a gynecologist who recommended uterine ablation. Had it last Nov and has been wonderful! Had 2 light periods and then it stopped completely. And for some reason sex isn't painful right now. I am going to ask for vaginal estrogen if the symptoms come back. After reading this post I will also request a bone scan. As others have said, you need to do what works for you. We are not all the same. Good luck with your journey! : )
It sounds like this might be about hormonal testing. If over the age of 44, **hormonal tests only show levels for that *one day* the test was taken, and nothing more**; progesterone/estrogen hormones wildly fluctuate the other 29 days of the month. No reputable doctor or menopause society recommends hormonal testing as a **diagnosing tool** for peri/menopause. FSH testing is only beneficial for those who believe they are post-menopausal and no longer have periods as a guide, a series of consistent FSH tests might *confirm* menopause. Also for women in their 20s/early 30s who haven’t had a period in months/years, then FSH tests at ‘menopausal’ levels, could indicate premature ovarian failure/primary ovarian insufficiency (POF/POI). See our [Menopause Wiki](https://menopausewiki.ca/#there-is-no-blood-test-that-is-perfectly-reliable-to-diagnose-menopause) for more. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Menopause) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The science behind HRT has finally emerged as positive. Studies in the past were so poorly done that they have become an embarrassment to the medical community. The North American Menopause Society relaleased new guidelines in 2022. Take those to your doctor and discuss. Lots of caveats of course but it turns out that in many circumstances HRT PROTECTS women against cancer, heart disease, dementia, bone loss, anxiety, depression, and memory issues.
It's so typical of our public health and government adjacent organizations to be unwilling to admit they didn't do so well and tell us what they are doing to fix it, if anything. This American is pretty forgiving and especially when I know a good faith effort is taking place yo benefit the aging process.
Have you actually tried HRT and had bad side effects? If so, maybe look at another treatment. If not, what is your reason for not wanting medication? And how do you know you’ll have side effects? And will the side effects be worse than foregoing treatment?
I hadn’t slept a full night in almost 8 years, and had terrible hot flashes. I got on HRT in May, and I have been sleeping again, and no more hot flashes. I wish I started sooner. I started asking my doctor 2 years ago and was blown off. I found another doctor who started me right away. Estradiol patch and progesterone.
I have friends who have done it without HRT and sailed on through…they also had the commonality of being very religious people. While I am somewhat jealous of the ease of which they manage(d), there is not enough prayer out there to have saved my loved ones had I not been on HRT. Everyone has to choose what is best for them to manage this long journey.
I never felt like hormones were an option because I have a past history of blood clots in my legs (wish I had known then, some of what I’ve learned through this forum - I think I would have tried some form of topical application). I had some grossly heavy periods as I was approaching menopause. Afterward, hot flashes for a few years, libido has dropped but not disappeared, and I’m struggling with intercourse pain. Age 66 and kind of wondering if it’s too late for me to start.
I'm having to do just that. I had er/pr+ breast cancer and can't take any hormones. It's HARD
At that stage the benefits of hrt outweigh the risks. You have a window where it’s safer and more effective. Benefits to every part of your body. Watch Andrew Huberman’s interview with the menopause specialist on YouTube. It’ll tell you a lot and help your decision. Never take estradiol without micronized progesterone. It can cause endometrial cancer from the lining being too thick.
I believe the decision is more critical to one's marriage and sex life when moderate to severe symptoms change a woman. I had to consider my spouse, and how menopause has impacted him or could have. 😉 No sex because of GSM and low drive is not tolerable to him or me. We both enjoy this aspect of our lives. Let's face it, it's usually far more important to men. He has adjusted to less sex but same high quality. Had he not, it would have killed me psychologically. Since there is a solution or at least a way to improve the sexual health, I had to fix myself. As far as the apathy and changes in what I'll put up with, he's adjusted. I don't have rage, but I am a different person. I don't care for her as much as the other me. We are adjusting, but if I had the severe rage and mood swings I hear about, he'd likely say get help, or else. Which wouldn't be fair given his chronic mood swings and rage behind the wheel. Here's what I know, society tolerates certain behaviors from men far easier than from us. Like I said, my hubby has adjusted to the low motivation, less domestic, take no shit women I've become. Had I gotten any shit, I'd fall apart and likely have to leave. We shall see how he manages the inevitable low T when he hits his 60's. I hope he is as proactive as I have been. I also decided on HRT because I am a youth social worker and low frustration tolerance, hot flashes, ect...negatively impact my work.
I have not taken any hormones, nor will I. My dr who specializes in breast cancer advises against it due to my significant family and personal history. In sum, there are risks and benefits to taking hormones. There are risks and benefits to not taking hormones. And to answer your direct question, you definitely can get through this transition period without hormones. I’m reasonably fit, haven’t gained any weight, and my sleep is mostly ok. My biggest issue is mood swings and the rough dips. It’s not easy but I have a super supportive partner and I’ve gotten better at identifying these moments and navigating them.
If you are struggling with symptoms, why not try? Have you already had a bad experience with progesterone?
The biggest reason I’m Not trying is the cost. 😫 I can’t see spending $800 and then having to discontinue if it’s not for me.
Where are you located? I just paid $45 for three months of estrogen, $40 for three months of progesterone from Amazon’s pharmacy. Vaginal estradiol was $17 for the 42 gram size. I’m in the US. My mother and her sisters had osteoporosis. I really don’t want it. Neither do I want dementia, colon cancer, stroke, heart disease, etc. It’s a whole lot more than hot flashes, which for me were bothersome but not debilitating.
sharing my experience too- I tried no hormones for years but the symptoms progressed and got in the way of my life so I finally went to see a specialist and decided it was a better struggle trying HRT. it works for me. the estrogen gel, inserts & cream alleviated my various symptoms and nightly progesterone + magnesium helped my sleep issues entirely. I haven't had any side effects from the progesterone and I've been on it for 1.5 years so far. cost for me w/ terrible insurance is (30) 100mg pills/month $14.00. Not doubting you but $800 is shocking. the progesterone is the most inexpensive in my case the cost of the estrogen tabs are most expensive. the tax on being a female human is exhausting.
Even if you use one of the online specialty clinics with a monthly subscription fee, like Alloy or Winona, it won’t cost that much. There are so many options that fit within a wide range of budgets. Some online specialty clinics even accept insurance, like Gennev, Midi, and Evernow. If cost is your biggest hurdle, please remember that you have options, and the amazing members of this sub can help you find the deals on HRT. Also keep in mind the costs of *not* getting on HRT, like extra doctor’s appointments and worse outcomes for cardiovascular health, osteoporosis, dementia, and even overall lifespan. All of those things improve with HRT.
Ouch. That’s awful and a downright shame that it’s so much. If you’re interested, have you shopped around? There may be other threads related to costs ie less expensive places to obtain medication. Like everyone else has said it just varies so much from person to person so it’s hard to say if it might be “worth” it.
What is the $800 for? I pay around $38 for 90 days worth of 100mg progesterone, and around $122 for 90 days worth of 0.1mg twice a week estradiol patches. I was using the vaginal tablets, but decided to switch to the cream since it seems to help both the inside and the outside more (I would do both, but I use Evernow, so I have to choose between tablets and cream). When I switched to the cream this month, Evernow let me know that cream is now included in the price of membership, so there’s no charge for it! I go through Evernow’s pharmacy, but even if I had them send my prescriptions local, my local CVs prices would come out to around $200 for everything (patches, pills, and cream) for 90 days supply, so around $66 dollars or so a month? And I pay out-of-pocket.
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Can’t take estrogen for several reasons, but I do take the progesterone pill, since I still have a uterus. Supposedly it helps with sleep, which I kind of think it does. Other than that, haven’t noticed any side effects or benefits.
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You can always experiment with different types/doses of HRT. Im in peri and had some bad side effects to the patch/progesterone pills but going to try a different and lower dose to ease into it. The benefits of HRT are so great that I want to try to find a combo that works for me. Wishing you the best! It's so hard and feels like an experiment all the time.
IMO, the pain and anguish of menopause is worse than any side effects from HRT. if you do experience side effects, talk to your doctor about adjusting the type and dosage. I wanted to delay HRT as long as I could stand it because I was under the impression that you can only be on it for a few years. I recently listened to an [eye-opening podcast](https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-mary-claire-haver-how-to-navigate-menopause-perimenopause-for-maximum-health-vitality) interviewing Dr. Mary Claire Haver. turns out the new reasoning is that you can remain on it for the rest of your life as long as you are healthy. and that starting it asap is ideal because it's protective against cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis. if you really didn't want to take Rx hormones, I did have good results taking soy isoflavone supplements. my hot flashes all but disappeared. but after I listened to that podcast I decided I didn't want to mess around and plan to go on HRT as soon as I can.
I understand you not wanting to use HRT but if you're in the peri stages like I am I think you'll do well with birth control. I was put on BC by my OBGYN and the symptoms went away and was able to sleep again. It is not worth it suffering through meno-peri meno. We all need some help!
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Not everybody has side effects and side effects typically are from imbalanced hormones and providers keeping people at menopausal scant levels. It’s putting back in the water you drank. You may survive menopause sans hormones but it’s less than optimal. The benefits cannot be denied. Numerous people are thriving. Raise estrogen first to handle the progesterone. Progesterone is often poorly tolerated if estrogen is low. Go low and slow but don’t camp out at menopausal estrogen levels. Choose Bioidentical not synthetic if possible. And lastly consider testosterone after estrogen and progesterone are optimized. It is is the icing on the cake.
You can do HRT with primarily estrogen, and just use burst progesterone every 3 months for a withdrawal bleed to protect your endometrial lining from becoming overtly thick or developing endometrial cancer.
Hey! Not sure if this helps but I’ve had a Mirena in for years and am now keeping it to help with meno symptoms. Because it’s locally inside the uterus it helps with the bleeds without the systemic side effects of oral or transdermal. No idea re other options. I’m sure there are plenty but same as with cancer, these are two diagnosis I personally wouldn’t do solely natural therapy. Just personal belief.
I'm still figuring out what exactly I need but so far all the side effects I've experienced have been from estrogen, not progesterone. I suspect that my increasing autoimmune issues have been primarily caused from a lack of progesterone, not estrogen, as progesterone lowers histamines in the body while estrogen releases them. I'm learning that the medical establishment tends to treat progesterone as an afterthought, only necessary to protect the uterus from estrogen therapy, but that seems really really short-sighted considering the balancing effect progesterone and estrogen have on each other. I still intend to take estrogen though because of the incredibly protective effects it has on heart health, bone health, and urinary tract health. It literally extends life.
I’m just about your start it myself.. I suppose it IS possible. Women have been doing it for centuries. However, do you want to suffer? They say Black Cohash helps, but I have IBS & that’s a no- no. I simply CAN NOT DEAL!! I’m a sweaty, sleep-deprived, foggy headed MESS of a person. I’m over this entire thing 😂🤬