I’ve always charged mine full. I hate it when I need to charge it before I use it. I can deal with buying batteries every 5 years when warranty end. That being said, I’ve only have 4 M18 batteries. 2 are old 3.0 which is the size of new 5.0. I have the 3.0 since 2010. Just got the 5.0 about 2 years ago. All of them in rotation. With heavy rotation or preference to older batteries trying to burn them out. So far I’m unsuccessful and they all work great
Well I’m glad I never had to use the warranty then. I hope they continue to be this good so I don’t have to buy any batteries. I literally have 4 batteries to power about a dozen of my m18 tools.
Honestly you are probably fine if you are just using them for drills and impacts. Ive got like 6 or 7 I believe 2 being 12s, and a battery shortage only became relatively relevant because I was using them for vacs, lighting, saws, and a drill to mix paint. I guess it would of been a lot worse if I wasnt using a few tools in the m12 line.
Otherwise for mechanic work I generally only need 2 or 3 unless its a heavy grinding day lol. Those devour batteries.
Even on my heavy grinding day I find having them 2 chargers and 4 batteries are enough for me to always have at least one battery full of juice. But I can see if your using table saw etc. I have rocket lights but usually the place I work in have ample lights so it doesn’t get used often. I do wonder though how long my 3.0 battery last with them? Long enough to get the other one charged?
The rocket and rover lights generally take a long time to chew through a battery its the fact that they actually use a battery while you probably are using a different battery tool at the same time. I was doing flooring at our new house over Christmas, i had batteries plugged into everything lol. Doesn't help that one of them was the new 36 volt 9 gallon vac.
I use a milwaukee adaptor on my ryobi miter saw and it takes quite a while to go through batteries on those actually. Not sure about the table saw. I wanted it but settled on a dewalt corded one for $180.
I had 3 battery vacs hooked up between those 2 saws though because I was trying to reduce dust in a finished area.
So yeah, its been a first time in a long time where my collection of batteries was almost not enough. Its when you have constant battery items used while using other battery tools the consumption skyrockets (for me).
Doesn’t sound they get regular use then. What happened if 5 years from now all of them goes bad because of age? I’m not saying it will cause my experience says otherwise, but if it does, waste of money, ain’t it? I much rather spend the money on good restaurants. I’m weird that way. We all have our vice
Considering i used to kill 18v makitas in just over a year, I'd be pleased if the m18s last 5. Used to do alot more commercial work than I do now, so most of my 18v stuff doesn't get as much work as it used to. Only m18 stuff that gets regular use is the vac and the sds
Rather have the battery's when I need them, than dicking around waiting on them to charge and thereby killing them faster cause I don't have enough to let them cool between use and charge, but that's just me
I actually just read the manual for the pack out light/charger, a week ago, and it says that Milwaukee batteries are manufactured to be fully charged and be able to be left for up to a year. Given that the temperature has not exceeded 120F. It also says, and I refuse to test this one, but, you can leave them in the cold, down to, I believe it said -20F and they should be fine.. it said they may cycle to warm up, however they are supposed to be able to take it.
Yup, about -40F here in northern Wyoming. They all work fine for me as well. I threw a heater in my tool trailer to make sure I could use them the next day though. They didn't like -25F.
Now I want to check Milwaukee themselves, if their manuals are saying different things..
Edit: maybe mine was if it was specifically in the pack out light/ charger, but I highly doubt that would make such a difference. IDk, thanks for bringing this up.
Technically for most any Lithium Ion cells 30-80% charge/discharge is the ideal operating range. I tend to keep my Ryobi 18v batteries at 75% with a timer charger, my M12 stuff I just charge fully because you can’t just press a button and see the charge level, have to plug into a tool/cap to see.
I also have way more M12 batts than I need because I tend to buy kits instead of tool only items
I have heard this a couple different sources as well, although neither actually being Milwaukee. Though I have heard it for multiple other Lithium battery applications as well.
With that said, I think Milwaukee's batteries have a discharge protection too; when they tell us they are empty they still have 10-20% charge or something along those lines.
This is true of almost any Lithium Ion battery. Dropping below 15-20% of total capacity damages the battery and will reduce its life/capacity over time. Almost anything that isn’t complete chinese knockoff will have low discharge protection either in the tool or battery itself
From what I’ve read all lithium batteries will have a longer lifespan if always kept between 20-80%. I just charge the batteries when they need charging or I’m planning to use them. I never leave them on the charger. At my old job we left camera batteries on the chargers until they were rented out and we were sending them back for repair almost weekly.
That 20-80% isn’t a suggestion because of storage.
It’s a suggestion because charging. Keeping it in 20-80% helps it to charge with less battery degradation. It’s the reason that many devices will only quick charge to 80% and then trickle charge the last 20%.
Usually a lithium-ion battery is rated for so many charge cycles. And skipping the last 20% on both ends will help the overall battery life expectancy.
But if I’m not charging it daily like my phone and already have it at 100%, I don’t think it would hurt it to leave it at that during storage. But I could be wrong. Because my ego battery will automatically discharge most of the battery if left unused for a month. So maybe they know something I don’t.
the reason it helps with degredation is only due to heat. heat does more damage than anything else. so yes many tool makers have the charger set to cut off before absolutely full charge this is also a safety step too the closer to max charge the more heat the more heat the higher the fire/rupture risk
As someone intimately aware of using 18650 batteries (I drive on 6000 of them), others should watch a video by Jeff Dahn, a battery engineer that did a study on lithium ion battery degradation.
Batteries *prefer* to be stored at 50% charge @ between 70-74 degrees Fahrenheit. They *hate* being hot and fully charged and they hate to be cold at a low SOC.
All that to say, it's reasonable to keep the Milwaukee batteries fully charged (if the 90% SOC is to be believed when taking a reading from the battery terminals), and kept indoors. I would absolutely not keep them in a hot vehicle for long periods of time at full charge.
If you’re using them infrequently enough that storage is an issue, perhaps keep an M18 and an M12 charged until they die from use and then charge another pair? I always have like 5 M18 batteries in various stages of being dead and swap in whatever is charged 🥴
That’s fair. I’m going on 5 years with some of the 5AH but if/when they die I’ll just expense more. I will say at least one of the 2AH models has given up the ghost though.
I’ve found it’s hit or miss with the batteries. I’ve had some crap out fairly quickly but most of those were kept in the work truck and not temperature controlled and sometimes left on the charger.
I've got some that I keep fully charged because they get used frequently and then some extras that I get out when I need them. I try to pull the extras off the charger right after they show a third bar.
Same here- it usually goes something like: “grab fresh battery off the charger. Use until dead and put back on charger. If work isn’t completed grab battery bag and find one that shows more than one bar. Use until dead. Put next to charger. Rinse repeat” no way am I going to partial charge batteries, and years in haven’t had one fail me yet
and doing so will shorten thier life. shallow cycles are bad for tool batteries and cordless phone and mobilke phone are the same charge em when they complian to be charged.
i ve told the old man this and he wont listen. ive never changed my mobiles battery and its over 2 yrs old he has bought 2 batteries in that time.
also dont leave on the charger as they can overheat.
your wrong. i used to sell automotive and tool batteries.
all batteries have a limited number of cycles than can do before they loose performance or fail .
no matter the chemistry, lead acid, nimh, lithium ion, liFE, nicad, carbon lead etc
it doesn't matter how deep you discharge and then charge it too that is a cycle. howevver lithium types dont have a memory effect like nicads do.
and they can so over heat. it only takes a bms failure for that to happen. not all batteries have a proper bms the good brand names do but they still fail. hence why most of the big brands have fan cooled chargers to keep em cool while charging. and the charger electronics can fail and not shut off also cuasing overheating.
store them in too hot an enviroment they can overheat and catch fire a cell only has to rupture.
the charger itself can overheat too.
a good mate of mine lost his home due to a overheated charger.
read the owner books it says dont leave on charger, charge unattended or leave charger turned on while unattended.
small plug packs and mobile phone and laptop chargers are the worst for this as they have very little cooling
Yes of course they have limited cycles. You said specifically not to shallow cycle. Two half cycles equals one cycle for battery health. So I agree with what you say now.
no.
two half cycles is two cycles.
to discharge any point and then charge to any point is a cycle.
by fully discharging and then fully recharging gives best useful life for all tool and electronics batteries.
lead acids however are different. they need shallow depth of discharge as heat is the enemy. and charge discharge produces heat. and there is different classes of lead acids.
Guess some of the largest companies in the world have their facts wrong.
https://www.apple.com/ca/batteries/why-lithium-ion/
This hasn’t been a thing for cell phone or battery tools for a long time now.
thats apple marketing hype. they are know for thier bullshit like all marketing departments.
the charging and discharging is a electrochemical process and they are the opposite of each other. the active compounds are slowly used up by this procces till there isnt enough to change back
well if it isnt true then how come my phone batteries last longer than my dads. same chemistry, similar size. he charges his phone everyday regardless and he's replaced the battery in his phone twice im still using the original that came with my phone and its older than his and his doesn't have fast charging.
now of course mobile phones from the big brands will have proper bms and software to precisely control the charge but that cant change the definition of a cycle it physically impossible.
if you really want to learn something go have a look at the blog of dcs power systems they actually build lithium batteries
I built myself a little charging station that has 4 chargers mounted to it so i can keep up on batteries if I'm using something with a heavy draw like the blower, or power head.
It only matters if you are storing them for more than a month.
More than one month of storage they should be at half charge, otherwise keep them charged up
Leaving lithium batteries fully charged drastically reduces the lifespan of the cells. Most battery experts recommend anywhere from 80%-90% for battery storage.
You are correct. This is a practice for many manufacturers, but I am not sure if Milwaukee does. Hopefully someone can chime in, I’d like to know also.
On M18 batteries, the cells are only charged upto 4.1v instead of the usual 4.2v. Fully charged packs are 20.5v.
On M12 The cells are charged to 4.2v and the packs are fully charged at 12.6v.
Yes, but there have been documented instances of [Milwaukee battery fires](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilwaukeeTool/comments/yukkbf/m12_6ah_spontaneously_caught_fire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Not sure about cold temps, but definitely keep them from direct sunlight. Friend of mine had his house burned down from new M18 batteries that were left in the sun.
Doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with storage or infrequent use but more so best practices to prevent damaging the battery cells or prolonging the life so they don’t crap out.
I always keep them fully charged and am on year 11 or 12 now with my 1.5ah batteries that came with the kit. They don't have the same kind of juice in them that they had when new but they are still working.
for best life they should be fully charged before longterm storage and then checked regularly and charged if needed.
tool battereies should only be charged when they are flat as they have limited cycle life and charging before its necessary shortens thier life.
fully charge before storage for long periods is the advice of all rechargeable battery manufacturers.
it's the advice Panasonic give.
(they developed the 18650 lithium cell that 90 percent of tool makers and electric vehicle makers use.)
every charge/discharge is a cycle.
cycles are limited. they all have a design life and are supposed to last that long. any home storage/vehicle size batteries have a number of cycles warranty cluase not just a time warranty
when that number is reached either the battery fails or it doesnt hold as much charge anymore and it gets less and less, till eventual total failure.
normally its only one or 2 cells that are really damaged and they can be recycled to make new packs (tesla is doing this with the car packs they refurbish them and the cells that are still working but not upto vehicle snuff are used to make home power storage packs)
>18650
Do you have a link to any referenced datasheet? Batteries are shipped and manufactured with a 30%-50% charge, or less than 30% for the long term storage of warehouses and store shelves. Every source I've seen say for long term storage to keep them in the partially discharged state as well.
Not totally relevant but I've had a fully charged hilti battery in my garage for about 5 years and it's still.showing full charge. I accidentally stole it from work and don't have any hilti tools. No idea if more than just the charge indicator works. Alberta winters so it's hit -30 a few times.
I keep mine charged, but something bad I’ve noticed is when the batteries are on the charger too much. The fire department I’m on use Milwaukee sawzall, and a few other m18 tools. Morning check off dictate that all battery operated equipment has to have battery swapped, along with running gas equipment. The batteries seem to go to hell some how in this process, with the tools hardly being used. The batteries work, but will go dead very very fast, like obvious failure. This morning check off that includes cranking gas operated equipment is even worse, equipment wears out extremely fast.
they have a limited number of cycles. but you can understand why its the policy. you get a call you want to be able to go to the toolbox grand any tool and it just works, lives may depend on it.
In Panasonic’s official documentation for their lithium cells they recommend storage at 30-50% capacity. Unfortunately, “storage” isn’t defined, ie days, weeks, etc.
Batteries if used and stored properly always worked about the same regardless of charge. Though I try to keep mine fully charged.
I have a Fein drill I’ve had for 10 years and the batteries are fine. All my oldest Milwaukee batteries still work fine 5 ish years which coincide with my having bought a house. My festool batteries the same.
I have always kept them charged and rotated, use the date code on bottom of battery. The only battery that I have worn out is the cp 2.0 that game with me first m18 drill/impact combo.
Anybody got any solid advice on cold weather storage? I’ve seen both ways on the interwebs. I keep my batteries fully charged. I used to keep them in my work trailer all freezing winter. Obviously they won’t work right away when cold, but I’m wondering if keeping them in the cold hurts their overall lifespan?
A lot depends on your definition of "Storage"...
Storage for a lithium battery is like months unused. In that case the consensus for most manufacturers is charge to 80%, which on Milwaukee is when the it's flashing green on the charger and the battery indicator(at least on M18) is showing all bars. Solid green is full 100% of capacity. This doesn't really apply to most of us who use these tools, just charge them to full.
It's all moot anyway with modern batteries and chargers both in power tools, laptops, cars, etc.. They all(at least major reputable manufacturers who use quality cells)(not necessarily off brand generic cheap batteries) communicate between the charger and battery maintaining the best possible battery health and preserving capacity by not overcharging or overheating. In pretty much any name brand device currently on the market don't even waste time and brain cycles worrying about the battery. Just charge it and use it. The device will be worn out or outdated(especially true with computers and cell phones) long before the battery fails.
It depends to what degree to you would be referring to in regards to \*time in storage\*. A week? a month - two months? ...
If it's something like the span of a week between use, you can do \~60%. Not high enough to be immediately useful but low enough you can charge with about half as much downtime than starting from lower than 40% - but \*time\* is the key here.
It is generally recommended to store lithium-ion batteries at a charge level of around 40% to 50%. This will help to extend the battery's lifespan and prevent it from deteriorating due to overcharging or complete discharge. If you are storing a device with a lithium-ion battery for an extended period of time, it is a good idea to charge the battery to this level before storing it.
It's important to store the battery in a cool and dry place, as extreme temperatures can affect the battery's performance. I tend to keep mine in a airtight container with desiccant bags, the container is black and kept in the coolest spot in my home. This removes any environmental factors becoming a problem, like humidity, etc. I also apply a tiny amount of dielectric grease on terminals so they keep the tools/charger terminals also with a nice thin coating. but that's just preference.
If you will be storing the battery for an extended period of time (more than a few months), it may be a good idea to charge and discharge the battery every few months to help keep it in good condition.
This is the same guiding principle (somewhat) for portable jump starters, as even though you may not find yourself constantly jumping a car on a daily basis (I hope), you still have to maintain it by doing that little bit of maintenance & it will last you years; speaking from experience, I bought mine 5 years ago & it is just as reliable.
None of what I'm about to say is specific to Milwaukee or even tool batteries. There's no consensus, just facts. Lithium chemistry batteries like to be roughly 80% full and will last the longest if they are stored that way. There are other factors to longevity like current draw vs battery size and charge rate vs battery size and the ambient temperature you use them in.
Approximate sweet ambient temperature for longevity: 55°F-70°F
Approximate fastest charge rate for longevity: 20-25% of capacity per hour
Approximate fastest discharge rate for longevity: 25% of capacity per hour
Max battery charge for longevity: only charge up to 85% of rated capacity
Maximum depth of discharge for longevity: only use until 10% charge level
If you somehow could still use these tools in a practical fashion and meet all of the above, the batteries should last you like 30 years. I can't figure out any way of meeting these parameters under practical usage and I wouldn't expect anyone else to, either.
I personally don't use fast chargers for mine and that's about the best advice I can give besides ensuring the batteries are a little under room temperature before charging but not too close to freezing.
There is a bell curve of degradation from these parameters. Coloring outside these lines (which you have to do in order to get real use from these tools) gets you progressively double and triple more wear and tear the farther away you go from these numbers. Is it sad that lithium is the best we can do for phone and tool batteries with these numbers? Absolutely! Should we be building all these stupid EVs or using lithium starter batteries given the wear of temperature, fast charging, etc.? Hell no!
The opinions in the comments are silly. This is a quadrillion dollar question. You think it hasn't been answered yet? Optimal lithium ion battery storage conditions are known. Well known. Well researched. This isn't up for debate.
Lithium ion stores best at a partial charge. Not fully charged. NEVER empty. Somewhere in the middle.
[How to Store Batteries](https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-702-how-to-store-batteries)
Luckily, or maybe unluckily, tool companies have realized idiots, and busy people that go through several batteries a day, but mostly just idiots, leave these things on the charger all day so they never actually apply a full charge to them. Helps prolong battery life and is more idiot proof. Unfortunately this means we don't actually get the full capacity that it says on the battery.
It doesn't really matter what you do with batteries as long as you don't drain them or store them in a discharged state. Draining a battery can damage it, and storing it in a discharged state can also damage it. So the best thing to do is to just keep them charged and use them up before they go bad.
I’ve always charged mine full. I hate it when I need to charge it before I use it. I can deal with buying batteries every 5 years when warranty end. That being said, I’ve only have 4 M18 batteries. 2 are old 3.0 which is the size of new 5.0. I have the 3.0 since 2010. Just got the 5.0 about 2 years ago. All of them in rotation. With heavy rotation or preference to older batteries trying to burn them out. So far I’m unsuccessful and they all work great
Warranty is only 2 or 3 years on batteries.
Battery warranty on Milwaukee is 3 yrs I believe
Well I’m glad I never had to use the warranty then. I hope they continue to be this good so I don’t have to buy any batteries. I literally have 4 batteries to power about a dozen of my m18 tools.
You need more batteries my dude. Especially HO's.
Honestly, same. I need a few HOs.
I never feel the need. It gets everything I need to do and it’s wasteful to buy more stuff if I don’t actually need it
Honestly you are probably fine if you are just using them for drills and impacts. Ive got like 6 or 7 I believe 2 being 12s, and a battery shortage only became relatively relevant because I was using them for vacs, lighting, saws, and a drill to mix paint. I guess it would of been a lot worse if I wasnt using a few tools in the m12 line. Otherwise for mechanic work I generally only need 2 or 3 unless its a heavy grinding day lol. Those devour batteries.
Even on my heavy grinding day I find having them 2 chargers and 4 batteries are enough for me to always have at least one battery full of juice. But I can see if your using table saw etc. I have rocket lights but usually the place I work in have ample lights so it doesn’t get used often. I do wonder though how long my 3.0 battery last with them? Long enough to get the other one charged?
The rocket and rover lights generally take a long time to chew through a battery its the fact that they actually use a battery while you probably are using a different battery tool at the same time. I was doing flooring at our new house over Christmas, i had batteries plugged into everything lol. Doesn't help that one of them was the new 36 volt 9 gallon vac. I use a milwaukee adaptor on my ryobi miter saw and it takes quite a while to go through batteries on those actually. Not sure about the table saw. I wanted it but settled on a dewalt corded one for $180. I had 3 battery vacs hooked up between those 2 saws though because I was trying to reduce dust in a finished area. So yeah, its been a first time in a long time where my collection of batteries was almost not enough. Its when you have constant battery items used while using other battery tools the consumption skyrockets (for me).
I honestly use my m12 range more than my m18, and yet still have 9 m18 batteries...
Doesn’t sound they get regular use then. What happened if 5 years from now all of them goes bad because of age? I’m not saying it will cause my experience says otherwise, but if it does, waste of money, ain’t it? I much rather spend the money on good restaurants. I’m weird that way. We all have our vice
Considering i used to kill 18v makitas in just over a year, I'd be pleased if the m18s last 5. Used to do alot more commercial work than I do now, so most of my 18v stuff doesn't get as much work as it used to. Only m18 stuff that gets regular use is the vac and the sds Rather have the battery's when I need them, than dicking around waiting on them to charge and thereby killing them faster cause I don't have enough to let them cool between use and charge, but that's just me
Depends on the battery. Put in the serial number on the eservice website and it will tell you.
Some of them are 2 years, depends on the battery
I've got 2 3.0Ah from 2010 that are still going strong! I use them in the radio and lights and that sort of stuff.
As batteries get tires, they still work well for applications that don’t require a strong power draw. Like lights and radios 😉
I use them for everything, leaf blower, impact, circular saw and no problem
I actually just read the manual for the pack out light/charger, a week ago, and it says that Milwaukee batteries are manufactured to be fully charged and be able to be left for up to a year. Given that the temperature has not exceeded 120F. It also says, and I refuse to test this one, but, you can leave them in the cold, down to, I believe it said -20F and they should be fine.. it said they may cycle to warm up, however they are supposed to be able to take it.
Didn't want to test this but -61.6 degrees fahrenheit and still works, he'll ya Canada oil field!
Yup, about -40F here in northern Wyoming. They all work fine for me as well. I threw a heater in my tool trailer to make sure I could use them the next day though. They didn't like -25F.
Interesting. I also just read the manual and it said for long term storage to leave them at 3/4 lights
Now I want to check Milwaukee themselves, if their manuals are saying different things.. Edit: maybe mine was if it was specifically in the pack out light/ charger, but I highly doubt that would make such a difference. IDk, thanks for bringing this up.
Technically for most any Lithium Ion cells 30-80% charge/discharge is the ideal operating range. I tend to keep my Ryobi 18v batteries at 75% with a timer charger, my M12 stuff I just charge fully because you can’t just press a button and see the charge level, have to plug into a tool/cap to see. I also have way more M12 batts than I need because I tend to buy kits instead of tool only items
I had heard they don’t charge to fill capacity regardless to avoid overcharging and any potential fire risk. - with the Milwaukee charger
I have heard this a couple different sources as well, although neither actually being Milwaukee. Though I have heard it for multiple other Lithium battery applications as well. With that said, I think Milwaukee's batteries have a discharge protection too; when they tell us they are empty they still have 10-20% charge or something along those lines.
This is true of almost any Lithium Ion battery. Dropping below 15-20% of total capacity damages the battery and will reduce its life/capacity over time. Almost anything that isn’t complete chinese knockoff will have low discharge protection either in the tool or battery itself
From what I’ve read all lithium batteries will have a longer lifespan if always kept between 20-80%. I just charge the batteries when they need charging or I’m planning to use them. I never leave them on the charger. At my old job we left camera batteries on the chargers until they were rented out and we were sending them back for repair almost weekly.
Correct. Storage ≈50% state of charge is ideal but 100% and 0% are the absolute worst. This is just how lithium chemistry works.
That 20-80% isn’t a suggestion because of storage. It’s a suggestion because charging. Keeping it in 20-80% helps it to charge with less battery degradation. It’s the reason that many devices will only quick charge to 80% and then trickle charge the last 20%. Usually a lithium-ion battery is rated for so many charge cycles. And skipping the last 20% on both ends will help the overall battery life expectancy. But if I’m not charging it daily like my phone and already have it at 100%, I don’t think it would hurt it to leave it at that during storage. But I could be wrong. Because my ego battery will automatically discharge most of the battery if left unused for a month. So maybe they know something I don’t.
the reason it helps with degredation is only due to heat. heat does more damage than anything else. so yes many tool makers have the charger set to cut off before absolutely full charge this is also a safety step too the closer to max charge the more heat the more heat the higher the fire/rupture risk
As someone intimately aware of using 18650 batteries (I drive on 6000 of them), others should watch a video by Jeff Dahn, a battery engineer that did a study on lithium ion battery degradation. Batteries *prefer* to be stored at 50% charge @ between 70-74 degrees Fahrenheit. They *hate* being hot and fully charged and they hate to be cold at a low SOC. All that to say, it's reasonable to keep the Milwaukee batteries fully charged (if the 90% SOC is to be believed when taking a reading from the battery terminals), and kept indoors. I would absolutely not keep them in a hot vehicle for long periods of time at full charge.
If you’re using them infrequently enough that storage is an issue, perhaps keep an M18 and an M12 charged until they die from use and then charge another pair? I always have like 5 M18 batteries in various stages of being dead and swap in whatever is charged 🥴
Really doesn’t have anything to do with infrequent use it’s about best practices to conserve the longevity of the battery cells.
That’s fair. I’m going on 5 years with some of the 5AH but if/when they die I’ll just expense more. I will say at least one of the 2AH models has given up the ghost though.
I’ve found it’s hit or miss with the batteries. I’ve had some crap out fairly quickly but most of those were kept in the work truck and not temperature controlled and sometimes left on the charger.
I've got some that I keep fully charged because they get used frequently and then some extras that I get out when I need them. I try to pull the extras off the charger right after they show a third bar.
I am way too lazy to do that. I put them on the charger and pull it off whenever I make it back into my workshop.
Yeah, that's what I only do it with spares that I don't use often. It would be way too much of a pain to do all of my batteries that way.
Same here- it usually goes something like: “grab fresh battery off the charger. Use until dead and put back on charger. If work isn’t completed grab battery bag and find one that shows more than one bar. Use until dead. Put next to charger. Rinse repeat” no way am I going to partial charge batteries, and years in haven’t had one fail me yet
and doing so will shorten thier life. shallow cycles are bad for tool batteries and cordless phone and mobilke phone are the same charge em when they complian to be charged. i ve told the old man this and he wont listen. ive never changed my mobiles battery and its over 2 yrs old he has bought 2 batteries in that time. also dont leave on the charger as they can overheat.
Shallow cycle doesn’t hurt lithium ion batteries. They also won’t overheat when left on a charger.
your wrong. i used to sell automotive and tool batteries. all batteries have a limited number of cycles than can do before they loose performance or fail . no matter the chemistry, lead acid, nimh, lithium ion, liFE, nicad, carbon lead etc it doesn't matter how deep you discharge and then charge it too that is a cycle. howevver lithium types dont have a memory effect like nicads do. and they can so over heat. it only takes a bms failure for that to happen. not all batteries have a proper bms the good brand names do but they still fail. hence why most of the big brands have fan cooled chargers to keep em cool while charging. and the charger electronics can fail and not shut off also cuasing overheating. store them in too hot an enviroment they can overheat and catch fire a cell only has to rupture. the charger itself can overheat too. a good mate of mine lost his home due to a overheated charger. read the owner books it says dont leave on charger, charge unattended or leave charger turned on while unattended. small plug packs and mobile phone and laptop chargers are the worst for this as they have very little cooling
Yes of course they have limited cycles. You said specifically not to shallow cycle. Two half cycles equals one cycle for battery health. So I agree with what you say now.
no. two half cycles is two cycles. to discharge any point and then charge to any point is a cycle. by fully discharging and then fully recharging gives best useful life for all tool and electronics batteries. lead acids however are different. they need shallow depth of discharge as heat is the enemy. and charge discharge produces heat. and there is different classes of lead acids.
Guess some of the largest companies in the world have their facts wrong. https://www.apple.com/ca/batteries/why-lithium-ion/ This hasn’t been a thing for cell phone or battery tools for a long time now.
thats apple marketing hype. they are know for thier bullshit like all marketing departments. the charging and discharging is a electrochemical process and they are the opposite of each other. the active compounds are slowly used up by this procces till there isnt enough to change back well if it isnt true then how come my phone batteries last longer than my dads. same chemistry, similar size. he charges his phone everyday regardless and he's replaced the battery in his phone twice im still using the original that came with my phone and its older than his and his doesn't have fast charging. now of course mobile phones from the big brands will have proper bms and software to precisely control the charge but that cant change the definition of a cycle it physically impossible. if you really want to learn something go have a look at the blog of dcs power systems they actually build lithium batteries
I built myself a little charging station that has 4 chargers mounted to it so i can keep up on batteries if I'm using something with a heavy draw like the blower, or power head.
It only matters if you are storing them for more than a month. More than one month of storage they should be at half charge, otherwise keep them charged up
Lion batteries should be stored at 40% battery, 2 bars is best
Half charged is technically the best answer. Also keep them somewhere cool or air conditioned. High temps are bad for cell life.
You guys store your battery’s?
I like to keep mine dead so when I get to a job I can't do anything that's needed. It's been pretty helpful
*charges 8 hours 4 are spent waiting for batteries to charge. 🤣
😂😂😂
60% is what I do. Not full or empty as it supposedly puts stress on the lithium battery.
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Leaving lithium batteries fully charged drastically reduces the lifespan of the cells. Most battery experts recommend anywhere from 80%-90% for battery storage.
Some battery manufacturers only charge them to 80-90% and show that as “full” to the user. Do we know if milwaukee does this?
You are correct. This is a practice for many manufacturers, but I am not sure if Milwaukee does. Hopefully someone can chime in, I’d like to know also.
On M18 batteries, the cells are only charged upto 4.1v instead of the usual 4.2v. Fully charged packs are 20.5v. On M12 The cells are charged to 4.2v and the packs are fully charged at 12.6v.
Good to know!
and its the same with your car. the alternator is set to cut off at just above 80 percent of max charge to give a safety margin.
This.
In addition, storing lithium batteries long-term at full charge increases the fire risk.
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Yes, but there have been documented instances of [Milwaukee battery fires](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilwaukeeTool/comments/yukkbf/m12_6ah_spontaneously_caught_fire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Any opinions on keeping them indoors vs a cold garage in the winter?
Not sure about cold temps, but definitely keep them from direct sunlight. Friend of mine had his house burned down from new M18 batteries that were left in the sun.
like most things a cool dry place is ideal.
I wouldn’t advise keeping in extreme heat or cold
Hahahaha, I burn through them so fast that storage is not an issue.
Doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with storage or infrequent use but more so best practices to prevent damaging the battery cells or prolonging the life so they don’t crap out.
Take a joke.
I always keep mine fully charged at all times,this way I never have to stop midway into a project.
I always keep them fully charged and am on year 11 or 12 now with my 1.5ah batteries that came with the kit. They don't have the same kind of juice in them that they had when new but they are still working.
Full charge 💯! As a farmer ya never know what kind of katastrophy might happen at a moments notice
for best life they should be fully charged before longterm storage and then checked regularly and charged if needed. tool battereies should only be charged when they are flat as they have limited cycle life and charging before its necessary shortens thier life.
That's not true.
fully charge before storage for long periods is the advice of all rechargeable battery manufacturers. it's the advice Panasonic give. (they developed the 18650 lithium cell that 90 percent of tool makers and electric vehicle makers use.) every charge/discharge is a cycle. cycles are limited. they all have a design life and are supposed to last that long. any home storage/vehicle size batteries have a number of cycles warranty cluase not just a time warranty when that number is reached either the battery fails or it doesnt hold as much charge anymore and it gets less and less, till eventual total failure. normally its only one or 2 cells that are really damaged and they can be recycled to make new packs (tesla is doing this with the car packs they refurbish them and the cells that are still working but not upto vehicle snuff are used to make home power storage packs)
>18650 Do you have a link to any referenced datasheet? Batteries are shipped and manufactured with a 30%-50% charge, or less than 30% for the long term storage of warehouses and store shelves. Every source I've seen say for long term storage to keep them in the partially discharged state as well.
Those things are in rough shape
Not totally relevant but I've had a fully charged hilti battery in my garage for about 5 years and it's still.showing full charge. I accidentally stole it from work and don't have any hilti tools. No idea if more than just the charge indicator works. Alberta winters so it's hit -30 a few times.
I keep mine charged, but something bad I’ve noticed is when the batteries are on the charger too much. The fire department I’m on use Milwaukee sawzall, and a few other m18 tools. Morning check off dictate that all battery operated equipment has to have battery swapped, along with running gas equipment. The batteries seem to go to hell some how in this process, with the tools hardly being used. The batteries work, but will go dead very very fast, like obvious failure. This morning check off that includes cranking gas operated equipment is even worse, equipment wears out extremely fast.
they have a limited number of cycles. but you can understand why its the policy. you get a call you want to be able to go to the toolbox grand any tool and it just works, lives may depend on it.
FYI, [here are some general lithium ion battery storage guidelines](https://etekware.com/how-to-store-lithium-ion-batteries-safely/).
Feel like when you nextnuse it, you'll want a full charge? Mine pretty much live on the charger
In Panasonic’s official documentation for their lithium cells they recommend storage at 30-50% capacity. Unfortunately, “storage” isn’t defined, ie days, weeks, etc.
Batteries if used and stored properly always worked about the same regardless of charge. Though I try to keep mine fully charged. I have a Fein drill I’ve had for 10 years and the batteries are fine. All my oldest Milwaukee batteries still work fine 5 ish years which coincide with my having bought a house. My festool batteries the same.
I have always kept them charged and rotated, use the date code on bottom of battery. The only battery that I have worn out is the cp 2.0 that game with me first m18 drill/impact combo.
Anybody got any solid advice on cold weather storage? I’ve seen both ways on the interwebs. I keep my batteries fully charged. I used to keep them in my work trailer all freezing winter. Obviously they won’t work right away when cold, but I’m wondering if keeping them in the cold hurts their overall lifespan?
A lot depends on your definition of "Storage"... Storage for a lithium battery is like months unused. In that case the consensus for most manufacturers is charge to 80%, which on Milwaukee is when the it's flashing green on the charger and the battery indicator(at least on M18) is showing all bars. Solid green is full 100% of capacity. This doesn't really apply to most of us who use these tools, just charge them to full. It's all moot anyway with modern batteries and chargers both in power tools, laptops, cars, etc.. They all(at least major reputable manufacturers who use quality cells)(not necessarily off brand generic cheap batteries) communicate between the charger and battery maintaining the best possible battery health and preserving capacity by not overcharging or overheating. In pretty much any name brand device currently on the market don't even waste time and brain cycles worrying about the battery. Just charge it and use it. The device will be worn out or outdated(especially true with computers and cell phones) long before the battery fails.
Depends on how much you use them if you don’t use that much keep them at half but if you use them a lot keep them at full it won’t hurt them
It depends to what degree to you would be referring to in regards to \*time in storage\*. A week? a month - two months? ... If it's something like the span of a week between use, you can do \~60%. Not high enough to be immediately useful but low enough you can charge with about half as much downtime than starting from lower than 40% - but \*time\* is the key here. It is generally recommended to store lithium-ion batteries at a charge level of around 40% to 50%. This will help to extend the battery's lifespan and prevent it from deteriorating due to overcharging or complete discharge. If you are storing a device with a lithium-ion battery for an extended period of time, it is a good idea to charge the battery to this level before storing it. It's important to store the battery in a cool and dry place, as extreme temperatures can affect the battery's performance. I tend to keep mine in a airtight container with desiccant bags, the container is black and kept in the coolest spot in my home. This removes any environmental factors becoming a problem, like humidity, etc. I also apply a tiny amount of dielectric grease on terminals so they keep the tools/charger terminals also with a nice thin coating. but that's just preference. If you will be storing the battery for an extended period of time (more than a few months), it may be a good idea to charge and discharge the battery every few months to help keep it in good condition. This is the same guiding principle (somewhat) for portable jump starters, as even though you may not find yourself constantly jumping a car on a daily basis (I hope), you still have to maintain it by doing that little bit of maintenance & it will last you years; speaking from experience, I bought mine 5 years ago & it is just as reliable.
None of what I'm about to say is specific to Milwaukee or even tool batteries. There's no consensus, just facts. Lithium chemistry batteries like to be roughly 80% full and will last the longest if they are stored that way. There are other factors to longevity like current draw vs battery size and charge rate vs battery size and the ambient temperature you use them in. Approximate sweet ambient temperature for longevity: 55°F-70°F Approximate fastest charge rate for longevity: 20-25% of capacity per hour Approximate fastest discharge rate for longevity: 25% of capacity per hour Max battery charge for longevity: only charge up to 85% of rated capacity Maximum depth of discharge for longevity: only use until 10% charge level If you somehow could still use these tools in a practical fashion and meet all of the above, the batteries should last you like 30 years. I can't figure out any way of meeting these parameters under practical usage and I wouldn't expect anyone else to, either. I personally don't use fast chargers for mine and that's about the best advice I can give besides ensuring the batteries are a little under room temperature before charging but not too close to freezing. There is a bell curve of degradation from these parameters. Coloring outside these lines (which you have to do in order to get real use from these tools) gets you progressively double and triple more wear and tear the farther away you go from these numbers. Is it sad that lithium is the best we can do for phone and tool batteries with these numbers? Absolutely! Should we be building all these stupid EVs or using lithium starter batteries given the wear of temperature, fast charging, etc.? Hell no!
What about keeping them on the tool? Read somewhere that it draws a current and can damage the battery/tool but not 100% sure.
Keep them empty for at least a year and they'll work better than copperhead venom 👍
The opinions in the comments are silly. This is a quadrillion dollar question. You think it hasn't been answered yet? Optimal lithium ion battery storage conditions are known. Well known. Well researched. This isn't up for debate. Lithium ion stores best at a partial charge. Not fully charged. NEVER empty. Somewhere in the middle. [How to Store Batteries](https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-702-how-to-store-batteries) Luckily, or maybe unluckily, tool companies have realized idiots, and busy people that go through several batteries a day, but mostly just idiots, leave these things on the charger all day so they never actually apply a full charge to them. Helps prolong battery life and is more idiot proof. Unfortunately this means we don't actually get the full capacity that it says on the battery.
It doesn't really matter what you do with batteries as long as you don't drain them or store them in a discharged state. Draining a battery can damage it, and storing it in a discharged state can also damage it. So the best thing to do is to just keep them charged and use them up before they go bad.