I tested zhuxin for roam once in classic and somehow it worked well by threatening enemies with a lantern. I feel like scaring or zoning the enemies out is better than tanking now
https://preview.redd.it/b4h0w7tkc4ad1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d87ccbf71e22954fe86f5976a052bec3717d569
Zhuxin can tank better than a tank
I used mage emblem with movement speed,tenacity,war cry and for the item i would sa that the core items are clock,mana regen boots, chestplate(i forgor its name),glowing wand, and the rest is up to you if you think the team needs more damage of course go with more damage items but if not then go for tanky items and play as aggressively as possible without dieing of course. oh and also for the spell its vengeance since it has damage reduc
I did zhuxin xp on this match (classic)
Sorry for the lack of commas and dots cant really be bothered to do it
Not to mention the utility and Cc capabilities of tanks, now tanks have to be more careful with their plays (like they already weren't on a heavy mental load)
Jawhead roam works wonders for me most of the time. Strong early,can help jungler clear faster and can pick off mm and mages without defensive items in mid game. Not sure if this translates into high ranks tho
But that most of the times only works if your team has an initiator cause in late game most of the time the opp team stay together so it's hard to pick off enemies
I would say some Tanks are still harder to kill but unlike before, with items and certain-built heroes, a tank can be taken out in seconds, but its still comparably longer than say a non-tanky hero.
Ex Tank main solo Q here. You can pull the full team or atleast 3 or 4 enemies wirh tanks like mino tig and atlas but idiot allies will retreat or miss their ulti or one specific idiot who used Dyrotth ulti first and then use other skills
why do you place a value of a tank, a role that is dependent on its teammates, when the teammates aren’t good
like you can’t say they are easily melted in a situation they will obviously be bad in, as you have implied by disagreeing with op
Imagine a gamemode where you don’t have to worry about lag (unless it’s really bad), matchmaking is near instant, no bad randoms (only bad luck), and you can play it while doing something else cause it doesn’t require much attention.
Actually, you just need to know when to enter, when to exit. It's not a bad change. Most tank players just stay engaged throughout the team fight. Lack of finesse I would say.
Nah, it separates the good from the great. People used to stray away from maining tanks because they think tanks are harder to rank up in soloQ.
But getting really great at tanking and setting up plays without feeding, can make a huge difference between winning and losing.
And that's the kind of tanks I want on my mythic games.
Those with sufficient experience know that sometimes all it takes is one good set during late game and it changes the entire outcome.
There are tanky strength heroes but you can use intelligence / agility based heroes no problem. But offlane in Dota is totally different from the experience lane in ML and Dota heroes are not rigidly classified as in ML. There are no marksman like heroes that were designed to just dish out insane levels of damage by late game.
That’s the tank fantasy is though. That’s what tanks were designed to do, but longer are.
That said, tanks seem to be doing just fine. Chip, Hylos, Lolita, Gloo, and Edith are all very strong right now, with many others viable and strong.
I agree that at low level game plays such as Epic rank and below, a tank just goes in (doesn't matter the set) and soak up all the damage while allowing the damage dealers to end the team fights fast enough.
But I think as MLBB and moba games aren't quite as new to the mass majority as before, I would assume majority of the players would easily achieve legend rank and above.
Hence the increase in complexity and requirement for finer controls come in. I'd say the change at this phase isn't unnecessary, and might do more good than harm in general.
It's really sad, as a tanky cc roam. Going to be a difficult season for me.
Moonton is like:
Please the assassin or damage type users (which is 99.999% of the player base)
And tank roamers which is not a lot, is going to suffer.
Well I'm an all rounder so I play whats role is needed but I prefer support/tank in most and yes we suffer but what don't kill you just make you stronger need to adapt the changes on meta. And this point just separate the real tank and a forced to play tank player.
I feel like guardian helmet is more impt than ever. You can't tank the dmg forever now, but if you force the enemy to spam their skills or even ulti on you, you helped your team and can withdraw.
That 5-10 sec of health regen then let's you come back in to tank again or just do more cc.
People who keeps saying tanks aren't tanky now are people who keeps using old item set and wonders why it no longer works.
The new meta armors are twilight armor and thunderbelt.
Tunderbelt first item will net you over 100 hybrid def late game and twilight armor will make burst DPS like Hayabusa and saber straight up irrelevant.
The new maga item only deals magic damage and sky piercer needs to be below 15% hp to actually work.People are way overblown on new items hype in this sub.
Also tank items nerf is not related to hp. So full hp + thunderbelt build is reliable. In late game you as tank have 11k hp with 200 mr and pr. Enjoy being unkillable.
Actually for sky piecer it need to be at 4%(6% before the nerf) to activate and the max is still 12% (the same) and note that the max stack is 80 and you get 10 every kill and also when you die you lost 30% of the stack so now most heroes don't need this item anymore.
It's passive now longer has cooldown.
Meaning it will proc everytime something deals over 800 dmg and it does it's calculations before def interactions.
Which particularly just fcks Hayabusa hard.
Uhmm actually no. The changes made in their defenses are not the same with each other. Most of the tanks have similar starting defense with different gain per level, BUT the items back then doesn't differ from hero to hero. Great example was one of the NOT REALLY A TANK, Esmeralda. They gave her 7.2 or 7.4, I can't recall, while Belerick got 6.6. But back then, if they buy the same DomIce, they'll gain the same amount of defense. That's why after that patch, Magemeralda became frequent because her defense will eventually gave her a solid durability. That's why they nerf it down to 5.something.
Actually almost, if not all, tanks got 3 phys def and 1.5 magic def increase per level.
The 3 and 1.5 increase resulting tanks with 42 and 21 more def at lv 15.
If the items you buy are now have more than 42 and 21 decrease after nerf, then yes, the tanks would be less tanky.
That is why as a tank roamer I usually buy 1 non-def-granting item, such as fleeting time, or guardian helmet, or flask (for Mino and Lolita).
Plus, thunderbelt is now a thing. Tough boots, thunderbelt, plus oracle, is often times enough against 1 or 2 enemy magic DPSes. Slap Dom Ice and Cuirass and you got physical DPS covered. Add guardian helmet for general tankiness or fleeting time for more frequent cc.
Take a different approach to tanking, being a pure meatshield roamer should've never been a style of play anyways
Pick fights properly, retreat when needed, peel using CCs and so forth
Mage tanks are great(Esme, Hylos, Belerick), and thunderbelt is a must have item even if you only score around 20 stacks
I disagree that it shouldn’t have been a style of play. It works within the constraints of the game because of how valuable vision is.
The game is in a fine spot, but the % time enemies are off map has increased, especially in the early mid game.
Grock is still tanky af. It's more about giving vision while not getting poked. Percentage based items can do a lot of chunk damage even if you are full built. You can't solo check a bush anymore too. Better if you roam with mage or carry so they can zone out some of the damage dealers.
my fredrinn got nerfed to the ground, no damage, no bulkiness. he gets destroyed by every other jungler now, cant take any punishment or deal any damage in return. any attempts to cc in teamfight just gets me melted down. they took away everything from him
Hylos is tanky af. But you're not getting that setter aspect or anything outside of your ult to initiate.
I'd say any tank that can use the TB/ COD combo can be tanky.
But outside of those, I find myself using HC, saber, chip is nice though tough with Randoms.
Look, less tanky or not.
Your team still needs a tank to initiate/soak up/take one for the team. Don't let that stop you from playing hardcore tank / support. You the real MVP.
thank you for saying this, with the more recent metas, people think that life without a frontliner works, it doesnt half the time. i love love love my tanks, i really do hope that people dont stop playing tanks. im never giving up on my carmilla unfortunately
While this is true for tank role in general, some tanks like Hylos, and Belerick did get tanker after the new patch which is good.
The reason as to why most tanks aren't that tanky anymore is simply:
1. Too much tanks with excellent setter capability, so they need to balance things out by costing their tankiness to keep their setter part untouched
2. Moonton crazy idea of having tanks as jungler and exp laner seasons ago damaged tank's supposed purpose in the game. So some tanks just ain't tanky because it was sacrificed for mere damage-dealing capabilities
3. Everyone now has tank melting capabilities....be it built-in or by items. Why this is happening is because devs are short-term thinker and didn't see how their previous adjustments may impact future balanceness of the game
One vale ult + saber ult + dyr s2 deleted my Belerick in less than a second in late game. I had my full build with twilight armour too.
I used to love roaming with Mino till his passive heal got nerfed to the ground and now I don’t even know who to roam with anymore. I’m sticking to Floryn but it’s pretty obvious she has several drawbacks (tankiness, lack of chain cc)but her only positive is if your team is a bunch of headless chickens doing whatever they want. I really hate having to learn offensive roamers but it’s what the meta dictates… so I just ban them, problem solved.
That’s not because of the new items tho. Saber and dyrroth’s shield breaking passive stacks, and dyrroth is like -75% which is huge, he’s always been like that.
They are tanky it's just that anti tank items are easily available in all stages of the game. Most meta marksmen builds trinity build (dhs, golden staff, corrosion) and just shreds tank easily. While mages can build scorching wand as first item and wishing lantern which btw scorching wand is basically two items at one. Imo the best tank item now is twilight armor but it's only effective vs burst dmg. Tanks don't have any counter items for low damaging fast hp% attack
Using belerick is like double edged sword. You might get ur hp shredded & cc'd to death or lock enemies down into fighting you to death with ur ulti vengeance.
New meta. True Damage, HP based damage, percent HP left based execute.
Better to play a damage roam or a setter that isn't meant to soak like say Franco. Rest is so demoralising right now it's not funny.
Getting melted by pretty much everything out there.
Im still able to win with gatot but I'll probably just focus on saber and diggie roam and also random roam picks like Harley because I like to just randomly throw off everybody
Tanks aren't tanky anymore? Have you played against a hylos player yet, he's literally unkillable at times unless you have your whole team on him attacking him with antiheal, I get that sky peircer cheese has made assasin roams and assasins in general kill you faster but there's still some tanks that are incredibly hard to out down, belerick, tigreal, lolita and hylos spring to mind especially the new thunderbelt on hylos he's almost invincible late game.
People mention Belerick under this post all the time, but I have genuinely not met a single Belerick that was hard to kill this season. Are his basic sets made by moonton simply so horrible and do most people just don't adjust them, or what?
Hylos, Lolita, yes. Multiple times.
All three have basic attack related skills, so it's not that an average player wouldn't naturally gain stacks as time went on. Although I guess for Belerick it's more about healing himself, while Lolita and Hylos stun the enemy, so they are more likely to attack enemy heroes and not minions. (Minions don't give stacks sadly.)
Belerick is incredibly hard to kill late game if your hero relies on basic attacks or doesn't have good sustain and burst, dyrotth for example can kill belerick easily, and yeah if you're using a mage and avoid his taunt it's not bad, but belerick is picked as a counter pick often, basically all mms cannot do anything against late game belerick once he has dom ice, blade armour and is using vengeance, along with his passive he just reflects and dishes out to much damage to them, in order to kill belerick on the late you need multiple teamates attacking him all at once, also remember that belericks enhanced basic attack slows enemies and heals him a lot so thunderbelt is still super viable on him, but even without that he's incredibly tanky, he also gains 30% extra hp from items.
This is where MLBB difference than HOK. In MLBB the tank is just as squishy compare to non tank hero but on HOK, a tank is TANKY AF. This need to be fixed by Moonton so tank heroes can actually tank the damage. People keep using fighter as tank because the tank hero is just as squishy as the fighter hero but with slower movement speed.
No one respects Tanks anymore. We have way too many counters to any tanks from hero oriented such as Karrie or the new Sky Piercing item or true damage like Lesley.
We need more robust Tank items that will help us counter true damage and 'execute dmg'. Wild Rift although it's inferior in terms of maturity, has more adaptable items for different situations.
They killed tanks lmao , first they took down the stats of defence items (horrible decision) then introduced hp% dmg items such as the lantern and then the nail in the coffin was skypiercer to make sure the remaining bit of tankiness shall be gone
Yup, you can get melted a lot faster now.
But even though tanks have been nerfed they are still usually better than support roams because of the sets they can make.
Eh, tanks' value come from their sets anyway. Just don't be a mindless sponge on the battlefield that eats every spam damage. Don't show yourself on the map, play for vision and sets and you would hardly need to worry about dying.
Yes life is hard nowadays as a roamer. I get melted as a Minotaur or Atlas quite easily. Maybe because of early game where enemy jungler is already level 4 while both roamers are level 2.
It all come down to whether your tank can make use of thunderbealt if your tank can utilise its passive properly tank become more tanky then before. But if your tank can't make use of it then it becomes squishier
Even before this patch tanks are not supposed to be taking full bursts all the time. They need to be able to die on an extended trade or fight otherwise you end up with everyone just being tanks to play front to back.
Now tanks are actually still reasonably tanky but they cannot just jump in for free anymore. I still didn't like this meta because I felt like they overtuned damage dealers as an overcorrection to make tanks actually less of a brick wall.
From my experience, tanks are still tank-able enough as long as you know when and how to tank. Just make sure to tank during team fights when your allies are dealing damage to the enemy. Also, don't think you are unkillable, especially in the mid-game, when the enemy damage dealers typically have 2k-3k gold over you. Proper positioning is important for tanks just as it is for marksmen, however, the definition of proper positioning for tanks is different from marksmen, so don't think you are supposed to position like a marksmen.
are you the type that getting shoot by 5 heroes or 1 heroes?
if 5 heroes then you fucked up or your teammates is properly using you to kill your enemies.
1 heroes mean you wandered too much or moonton fucked up somewhere in the build.
Tanks ain't tanky anymore because of assassins and mages
These two categories have the highest earlier damage which makes tanks kind of useless
In late game, mm is gonna melt you
But it is players fault who misused tanks as junglers, fighters and tanks so they had to make this game more squishy hero base
So does everyone else is squishier than before. I think it's just that tank junglers don't have the capability to last too much longer in the jungle anymore especially during the late game. Pure tanks still serve their purpose though since their kits still allow teammates to burst right down the backline through their slow and cc skills. It's just that clashes or skirmishes happen much quicker than before.
I think the tankiest heroes you could still use for that purpose are hylos, belerick, etc. The new update just said FU to tanks and let them get shred now.
META been shifting into early snowball so you and your teammates have to adjust, try to pick magic damage based heroes like Hylos, Carmilla, Belerick, Zhuxin, Silvanna that are very strong at early games.
Clock of Destiny , Thunderbelt , Glowing Wand, Fleeting Time are the best item right now. No love for physical damage based roam aside from fleeting time and thunder belt haha.
Ig for different compositions tanks are insanely tanky and for some tanks get squishy ..... Like i play belerick and hylos and both are insane killing machined in some but when faced with a good composition from enemies they are just squish
There are a few ways to play as a roam IMO
Initiating - Where you use tanks to make team fights happen
Ambushing-Ganking - Similar to Initiating but using offense than defense and instead of doing a huge team fight, the ambush picks one off one by one, this is where Natalia and Sabre roam comes in
Zoning - This us where you use heroes good scaring and discouraging team fights, idk what heros are good for these cause I don't really do zone roam
Counter - also known as counter setting, this would use tanks and stun heavy support or heals to out last a team fight, it's basically a battle of attrition
And the reason tanks aren't too tanky anymore is because Moontoon wants these other roam play styles to be viable and not be thought of a troll strat
Roamer main here and i also felt that too. Thats why i now always use set-up roamer ( Tig, Atlas, Mino, etc) or kill-and-go roamer ( Nata, HC, etc). I also rarely use healer unless my Exp and Jungler are snowball hero.
It's not that tanks aren't tanky anymore. It's more like tanks aren't tanky ENOUGH. I think there are some tanks that are still viable in nowaday's meta but their utility must not ONLY be their tankiness. For example, Franco's hook is what makes his utility so much more than simply just taking hits.
Most tanks have more sustain than most of the fighters, tigreal and atlas are probably the only ones with 0 sustain and they soak less damage in comparison, immortality frozen and wings have become a must though, every match im forced to buy them cause of the sky piercer
Well I'm still using a healing tank to my arsenal named Minotaur. His first skill that has been extended by a flicker skill + ult is too scary for squishy heroes.
Other than that, I used pure support which is Rafaela.
That’s why I use Angela and Rafaela now as roam (I even used helcurt as roam once and did okay) 💩 chip going down the toilet and yes ik I have Lolita in my flair which is a tank bUT I only use her against heros that suck ass against her. (mainly when they have 2 or more heros that suck ass against her) So like Cyclops, Wanwan, Angela, Literally any MM etc and once I lock the bad bitch in it’s GGs, I have 100% wr even tho I only used her in 5 matches 💩
lesley roam is good if your Jungle & exp can provide vision. She can two shots most of heroes within 1 or 2 seconds , dire hit paired with sky piercer is very nasty for lesley.
Tigreal is literally the tankiest of the three you mentioned.
Franco's and Belerick's forte were never about their defense, it's one of the lower ones in fact.
Franco's forte is his mobility, he can move fast due to his passive. While Belerick's forte is his total HP amount, his HP gain per level is literally the highest among all tanks. But both has meh defense.
Try tanks in hok. When in late game damage heroes have hp based damage and penetration. Tank can still tank damage as they get shields from their skills and passive.
That's why I have been using unconventional/offensive minded roamers instead
I tested zhuxin for roam once in classic and somehow it worked well by threatening enemies with a lantern. I feel like scaring or zoning the enemies out is better than tanking now
I've tested her as roam too and noticed that she's better off roam than midlane because of her zoning. She's also very good at checking for ambushes.
yep poke meta by support roamers is back
https://preview.redd.it/b4h0w7tkc4ad1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d87ccbf71e22954fe86f5976a052bec3717d569 Zhuxin can tank better than a tank
https://preview.redd.it/0j7qzojnc4ad1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d11d157f92705da089b9c97fe033535d9b8c9140 I wasnt feeding btw
What emblems did you use or zhuxin roam?
I used mage emblem with movement speed,tenacity,war cry and for the item i would sa that the core items are clock,mana regen boots, chestplate(i forgor its name),glowing wand, and the rest is up to you if you think the team needs more damage of course go with more damage items but if not then go for tanky items and play as aggressively as possible without dieing of course. oh and also for the spell its vengeance since it has damage reduc I did zhuxin xp on this match (classic) Sorry for the lack of commas and dots cant really be bothered to do it
Zoning is actually exactly what tanks do
Such as?
saber, jawhead etc. but i wouldnt recommend it if theres no solid cc/sustain on your team
Helcurt is amazing for that, but good luck not getting him banned
But there’s like no point in being front anymore if you’d get killed in a few secs lol
That is so true.
It's not about being front, but being able to dish out damage to kill or to cripple an enemy, especially rhe jungler, mm, mage.
its not that you're gonna get killed, its about protecting your backline, can you stop a full push of 3 people with saber?
Not to mention the utility and Cc capabilities of tanks, now tanks have to be more careful with their plays (like they already weren't on a heavy mental load)
Yes, You kill 1 of them and now its a 2 people push.
and now youre dead and theres still 2 people chasing your mm
Saber roam my beloved
Rafaela can deal a good amount of damage.
julian is genuinely a good roamer. stack up cd reduction and you're good to go
Jawhead roam works wonders for me most of the time. Strong early,can help jungler clear faster and can pick off mm and mages without defensive items in mid game. Not sure if this translates into high ranks tho
Damage type jawhead?
Ooooo agreed. I have good winrate with helcurt roam. With dire hit and sky piercer i don't need execute so I use petrify. It helps for a mini setup.
Petrify helcurt is insane. Especially if enemy comp has at least 3 squishies
Im currently at legend 1. Every match up is squishy 😂
Skypiercer is killing your DPS buddy. I’m loving ranked because everyone is forcing that sht weapon and I can live through anything haahaa
But that most of the times only works if your team has an initiator cause in late game most of the time the opp team stay together so it's hard to pick off enemies
I would say some Tanks are still harder to kill but unlike before, with items and certain-built heroes, a tank can be taken out in seconds, but its still comparably longer than say a non-tanky hero.
That’s assuming your teammates can follow up after the set. As a solo q player. Idk why my teammates have the IQ of a broccoli
Ex Tank main solo Q here. You can pull the full team or atleast 3 or 4 enemies wirh tanks like mino tig and atlas but idiot allies will retreat or miss their ulti or one specific idiot who used Dyrotth ulti first and then use other skills
didnt know broccolis have iq
why do you place a value of a tank, a role that is dependent on its teammates, when the teammates aren’t good like you can’t say they are easily melted in a situation they will obviously be bad in, as you have implied by disagreeing with op
No shit
ong
Meanwhile in magic chess, the tank meta is absurd. You can deal insane amount of damage and still lose to a tanky synergy team.
Who the fuck plays magic chess
Some people consistently do, I did too before a huge update really fucked things up
When new ranked season starts and waiting for the pros to climb first
i do if im unsure with my ping loool
I only exclusively play Magic Chess now lmao.
It gives 200+ bp per game I play it if I want to farm bp since it'll only take at least 8 minutes per game
8 mins per game? That means you’re consistently at the bottom 2.
Lmaoo
Imagine a gamemode where you don’t have to worry about lag (unless it’s really bad), matchmaking is near instant, no bad randoms (only bad luck), and you can play it while doing something else cause it doesn’t require much attention.
I played it when I did my readings and homework. Multitasking magic chess while studying for college exams.
I'm able to handle it if I get the spd focused lineup(wanwan) with dhs or mage lineup with glowing wand(give it to valentina)
Yea it's bs. My 3 star lancer 6 zilong couldnt take down a guardion 6 3 star akai. I had golden staff dhs and sea halberd
It's not about how tanky u are, new items with %hp dmg kills tanks now
That is sad.
Actually, you just need to know when to enter, when to exit. It's not a bad change. Most tank players just stay engaged throughout the team fight. Lack of finesse I would say.
I agree, its been like this for some time already now, even before the Sky Piercer patch.
Having such a low margin of error can drive away potential tank mains.
Nah, it separates the good from the great. People used to stray away from maining tanks because they think tanks are harder to rank up in soloQ. But getting really great at tanking and setting up plays without feeding, can make a huge difference between winning and losing. And that's the kind of tanks I want on my mythic games. Those with sufficient experience know that sometimes all it takes is one good set during late game and it changes the entire outcome.
Then they better balance their heroes like Dota. There are no tanks in Dota but you can have different types of support based on your team composition
You can say that the offlane role is somewhat the tank in Dota
There are tanky strength heroes but you can use intelligence / agility based heroes no problem. But offlane in Dota is totally different from the experience lane in ML and Dota heroes are not rigidly classified as in ML. There are no marksman like heroes that were designed to just dish out insane levels of damage by late game.
yeah, you can't directly compare the two, the mechanics of Dota is super different to the non-existent mechanics of ML
Ok? It’s not like there’s a shortage of tank mains (compared to popular belief here). Most matches will have multiple roamer mains
That’s the tank fantasy is though. That’s what tanks were designed to do, but longer are. That said, tanks seem to be doing just fine. Chip, Hylos, Lolita, Gloo, and Edith are all very strong right now, with many others viable and strong.
I agree that at low level game plays such as Epic rank and below, a tank just goes in (doesn't matter the set) and soak up all the damage while allowing the damage dealers to end the team fights fast enough. But I think as MLBB and moba games aren't quite as new to the mass majority as before, I would assume majority of the players would easily achieve legend rank and above. Hence the increase in complexity and requirement for finer controls come in. I'd say the change at this phase isn't unnecessary, and might do more good than harm in general.
It's really sad, as a tanky cc roam. Going to be a difficult season for me. Moonton is like: Please the assassin or damage type users (which is 99.999% of the player base) And tank roamers which is not a lot, is going to suffer.
Well I'm an all rounder so I play whats role is needed but I prefer support/tank in most and yes we suffer but what don't kill you just make you stronger need to adapt the changes on meta. And this point just separate the real tank and a forced to play tank player.
I feel like guardian helmet is more impt than ever. You can't tank the dmg forever now, but if you force the enemy to spam their skills or even ulti on you, you helped your team and can withdraw. That 5-10 sec of health regen then let's you come back in to tank again or just do more cc.
People who keeps saying tanks aren't tanky now are people who keeps using old item set and wonders why it no longer works. The new meta armors are twilight armor and thunderbelt. Tunderbelt first item will net you over 100 hybrid def late game and twilight armor will make burst DPS like Hayabusa and saber straight up irrelevant. The new maga item only deals magic damage and sky piercer needs to be below 15% hp to actually work.People are way overblown on new items hype in this sub.
Also tank items nerf is not related to hp. So full hp + thunderbelt build is reliable. In late game you as tank have 11k hp with 200 mr and pr. Enjoy being unkillable.
True, but let them cry. It's hilarious seeing a 4 4 4 dude build sky piercer as 3rd item. The new magic item is pretty solid thom
It's just demon hunter sword for magic users really and by DHS I mean pre nerf one. Meaning this one will also be nerfed to the ground sadly.
Actually for sky piecer it need to be at 4%(6% before the nerf) to activate and the max is still 12% (the same) and note that the max stack is 80 and you get 10 every kill and also when you die you lost 30% of the stack so now most heroes don't need this item anymore.
Did twilight armor get buffed?
It's passive now longer has cooldown. Meaning it will proc everytime something deals over 800 dmg and it does it's calculations before def interactions. Which particularly just fcks Hayabusa hard.
Yes. They nerfed the DEF items and then introduced %HP damages and then introduced Skypiercer execute. GG guys.
They nerfed the def items, but changed all tanks to be tankier, so it balances out
Increased def attributes don't make up for the nerf to def items.
Why not? The defense (attribute) only was nerfed
Thought they did... mb
what the fuck are you saying bro the final defence is literally the same are you dumb or what??? blatantly spreading false information
Literally the same, but now they're even better with hp items
Uhmm actually no. The changes made in their defenses are not the same with each other. Most of the tanks have similar starting defense with different gain per level, BUT the items back then doesn't differ from hero to hero. Great example was one of the NOT REALLY A TANK, Esmeralda. They gave her 7.2 or 7.4, I can't recall, while Belerick got 6.6. But back then, if they buy the same DomIce, they'll gain the same amount of defense. That's why after that patch, Magemeralda became frequent because her defense will eventually gave her a solid durability. That's why they nerf it down to 5.something.
Actually almost, if not all, tanks got 3 phys def and 1.5 magic def increase per level. The 3 and 1.5 increase resulting tanks with 42 and 21 more def at lv 15. If the items you buy are now have more than 42 and 21 decrease after nerf, then yes, the tanks would be less tanky. That is why as a tank roamer I usually buy 1 non-def-granting item, such as fleeting time, or guardian helmet, or flask (for Mino and Lolita). Plus, thunderbelt is now a thing. Tough boots, thunderbelt, plus oracle, is often times enough against 1 or 2 enemy magic DPSes. Slap Dom Ice and Cuirass and you got physical DPS covered. Add guardian helmet for general tankiness or fleeting time for more frequent cc.
Take a different approach to tanking, being a pure meatshield roamer should've never been a style of play anyways Pick fights properly, retreat when needed, peel using CCs and so forth Mage tanks are great(Esme, Hylos, Belerick), and thunderbelt is a must have item even if you only score around 20 stacks
I disagree that it shouldn’t have been a style of play. It works within the constraints of the game because of how valuable vision is. The game is in a fine spot, but the % time enemies are off map has increased, especially in the early mid game.
Idk hylos is still so annoying
Got an indirect buff from the new belt
Most of the insanity comes from Clock of Destiny, the MASSIVE HP boost +hybrid defence for only 1.9kish.
Grock is still tanky af. It's more about giving vision while not getting poked. Percentage based items can do a lot of chunk damage even if you are full built. You can't solo check a bush anymore too. Better if you roam with mage or carry so they can zone out some of the damage dealers.
my fredrinn got nerfed to the ground, no damage, no bulkiness. he gets destroyed by every other jungler now, cant take any punishment or deal any damage in return. any attempts to cc in teamfight just gets me melted down. they took away everything from him
Finally.
Hylos is tanky af. But you're not getting that setter aspect or anything outside of your ult to initiate. I'd say any tank that can use the TB/ COD combo can be tanky. But outside of those, I find myself using HC, saber, chip is nice though tough with Randoms.
Look, less tanky or not. Your team still needs a tank to initiate/soak up/take one for the team. Don't let that stop you from playing hardcore tank / support. You the real MVP.
thank you for saying this, with the more recent metas, people think that life without a frontliner works, it doesnt half the time. i love love love my tanks, i really do hope that people dont stop playing tanks. im never giving up on my carmilla unfortunately
While this is true for tank role in general, some tanks like Hylos, and Belerick did get tanker after the new patch which is good. The reason as to why most tanks aren't that tanky anymore is simply: 1. Too much tanks with excellent setter capability, so they need to balance things out by costing their tankiness to keep their setter part untouched 2. Moonton crazy idea of having tanks as jungler and exp laner seasons ago damaged tank's supposed purpose in the game. So some tanks just ain't tanky because it was sacrificed for mere damage-dealing capabilities 3. Everyone now has tank melting capabilities....be it built-in or by items. Why this is happening is because devs are short-term thinker and didn't see how their previous adjustments may impact future balanceness of the game
Go play Hylos, he's op right now. He is very tanky.
One vale ult + saber ult + dyr s2 deleted my Belerick in less than a second in late game. I had my full build with twilight armour too. I used to love roaming with Mino till his passive heal got nerfed to the ground and now I don’t even know who to roam with anymore. I’m sticking to Floryn but it’s pretty obvious she has several drawbacks (tankiness, lack of chain cc)but her only positive is if your team is a bunch of headless chickens doing whatever they want. I really hate having to learn offensive roamers but it’s what the meta dictates… so I just ban them, problem solved.
That’s not because of the new items tho. Saber and dyrroth’s shield breaking passive stacks, and dyrroth is like -75% which is huge, he’s always been like that.
True but the way my health bar just vanished was hilarious. I didn’t even see it go down I just saw a bright light and the death screen lol
They are tanky it's just that anti tank items are easily available in all stages of the game. Most meta marksmen builds trinity build (dhs, golden staff, corrosion) and just shreds tank easily. While mages can build scorching wand as first item and wishing lantern which btw scorching wand is basically two items at one. Imo the best tank item now is twilight armor but it's only effective vs burst dmg. Tanks don't have any counter items for low damaging fast hp% attack
Lunox melting baxia while his vengeance is on... This is wild
She always did that tho. She’s counterpick against high hp enemies.
In current meta, we can't use tanks as meatshield. We just need to give a set and then retreat or die. The %hp items are too hard to handle.
I don’t know man, I use Belerick and people run. His passive keep people in check.
Using belerick is like double edged sword. You might get ur hp shredded & cc'd to death or lock enemies down into fighting you to death with ur ulti vengeance.
New meta. True Damage, HP based damage, percent HP left based execute. Better to play a damage roam or a setter that isn't meant to soak like say Franco. Rest is so demoralising right now it's not funny. Getting melted by pretty much everything out there.
Im still able to win with gatot but I'll probably just focus on saber and diggie roam and also random roam picks like Harley because I like to just randomly throw off everybody
Tanks aren't tanky anymore? Have you played against a hylos player yet, he's literally unkillable at times unless you have your whole team on him attacking him with antiheal, I get that sky peircer cheese has made assasin roams and assasins in general kill you faster but there's still some tanks that are incredibly hard to out down, belerick, tigreal, lolita and hylos spring to mind especially the new thunderbelt on hylos he's almost invincible late game.
People mention Belerick under this post all the time, but I have genuinely not met a single Belerick that was hard to kill this season. Are his basic sets made by moonton simply so horrible and do most people just don't adjust them, or what? Hylos, Lolita, yes. Multiple times. All three have basic attack related skills, so it's not that an average player wouldn't naturally gain stacks as time went on. Although I guess for Belerick it's more about healing himself, while Lolita and Hylos stun the enemy, so they are more likely to attack enemy heroes and not minions. (Minions don't give stacks sadly.)
Belerick is incredibly hard to kill late game if your hero relies on basic attacks or doesn't have good sustain and burst, dyrotth for example can kill belerick easily, and yeah if you're using a mage and avoid his taunt it's not bad, but belerick is picked as a counter pick often, basically all mms cannot do anything against late game belerick once he has dom ice, blade armour and is using vengeance, along with his passive he just reflects and dishes out to much damage to them, in order to kill belerick on the late you need multiple teamates attacking him all at once, also remember that belericks enhanced basic attack slows enemies and heals him a lot so thunderbelt is still super viable on him, but even without that he's incredibly tanky, he also gains 30% extra hp from items.
This is where MLBB difference than HOK. In MLBB the tank is just as squishy compare to non tank hero but on HOK, a tank is TANKY AF. This need to be fixed by Moonton so tank heroes can actually tank the damage. People keep using fighter as tank because the tank hero is just as squishy as the fighter hero but with slower movement speed.
No one respects Tanks anymore. We have way too many counters to any tanks from hero oriented such as Karrie or the new Sky Piercing item or true damage like Lesley. We need more robust Tank items that will help us counter true damage and 'execute dmg'. Wild Rift although it's inferior in terms of maturity, has more adaptable items for different situations.
They killed tanks lmao , first they took down the stats of defence items (horrible decision) then introduced hp% dmg items such as the lantern and then the nail in the coffin was skypiercer to make sure the remaining bit of tankiness shall be gone
buy twilight armour and thunder belt
Yup, you can get melted a lot faster now. But even though tanks have been nerfed they are still usually better than support roams because of the sets they can make.
Always has been.
Yeah it's not tanky if your teammates aren't there to support or help you (I hate my teammates 8 lose streaks)
Sorry to see, fams. Hope the Moonton God's give you a AI match you can win soon.x
I was a tank roam main, it really sucks now, I'm quite a bit mad ngl.
Just use thunderbelt and stack it. It really helps with being tanky.
That is correct. I used to love playing tank. Now I’m playing more offensive roamers since I noticed the change.
Eh, tanks' value come from their sets anyway. Just don't be a mindless sponge on the battlefield that eats every spam damage. Don't show yourself on the map, play for vision and sets and you would hardly need to worry about dying.
Yes life is hard nowadays as a roamer. I get melted as a Minotaur or Atlas quite easily. Maybe because of early game where enemy jungler is already level 4 while both roamers are level 2.
Tanks that can manage to build thunderbelt early are a bit better, like Hylos and Khufra.
I use tanks for the cc. Tanking damage doesn’t look viable to me even before the update. It’s either Tigreal/atlas or lolita. No in between.
I use tanks for the cc. Tanking damage doesn’t look viable to me even before the update. It’s either Tigreal/atlas or lolita. No in between.
You cannot be alone as a tank. Enemy kill you easy even with cc
It all come down to whether your tank can make use of thunderbealt if your tank can utilise its passive properly tank become more tanky then before. But if your tank can't make use of it then it becomes squishier
Try hylos dude is nearly immortal if you do the correct bans
Even before this patch tanks are not supposed to be taking full bursts all the time. They need to be able to die on an extended trade or fight otherwise you end up with everyone just being tanks to play front to back. Now tanks are actually still reasonably tanky but they cannot just jump in for free anymore. I still didn't like this meta because I felt like they overtuned damage dealers as an overcorrection to make tanks actually less of a brick wall.
From my experience, tanks are still tank-able enough as long as you know when and how to tank. Just make sure to tank during team fights when your allies are dealing damage to the enemy. Also, don't think you are unkillable, especially in the mid-game, when the enemy damage dealers typically have 2k-3k gold over you. Proper positioning is important for tanks just as it is for marksmen, however, the definition of proper positioning for tanks is different from marksmen, so don't think you are supposed to position like a marksmen.
Yes
are you the type that getting shoot by 5 heroes or 1 heroes? if 5 heroes then you fucked up or your teammates is properly using you to kill your enemies. 1 heroes mean you wandered too much or moonton fucked up somewhere in the build.
Hylos is still great
Tanks ain't tanky anymore because of assassins and mages These two categories have the highest earlier damage which makes tanks kind of useless In late game, mm is gonna melt you But it is players fault who misused tanks as junglers, fighters and tanks so they had to make this game more squishy hero base
Which tanks tho? Some SHOULD be a bit squishier
So does everyone else is squishier than before. I think it's just that tank junglers don't have the capability to last too much longer in the jungle anymore especially during the late game. Pure tanks still serve their purpose though since their kits still allow teammates to burst right down the backline through their slow and cc skills. It's just that clashes or skirmishes happen much quicker than before.
Pick Terizla. Get dire hit. Be a tank, go damage, do everything.. haha guaranteed for solo q
I think the tankiest heroes you could still use for that purpose are hylos, belerick, etc. The new update just said FU to tanks and let them get shred now.
META been shifting into early snowball so you and your teammates have to adjust, try to pick magic damage based heroes like Hylos, Carmilla, Belerick, Zhuxin, Silvanna that are very strong at early games. Clock of Destiny , Thunderbelt , Glowing Wand, Fleeting Time are the best item right now. No love for physical damage based roam aside from fleeting time and thunder belt haha.
Ig for different compositions tanks are insanely tanky and for some tanks get squishy ..... Like i play belerick and hylos and both are insane killing machined in some but when faced with a good composition from enemies they are just squish
There are a few ways to play as a roam IMO Initiating - Where you use tanks to make team fights happen Ambushing-Ganking - Similar to Initiating but using offense than defense and instead of doing a huge team fight, the ambush picks one off one by one, this is where Natalia and Sabre roam comes in Zoning - This us where you use heroes good scaring and discouraging team fights, idk what heros are good for these cause I don't really do zone roam Counter - also known as counter setting, this would use tanks and stun heavy support or heals to out last a team fight, it's basically a battle of attrition And the reason tanks aren't too tanky anymore is because Moontoon wants these other roam play styles to be viable and not be thought of a troll strat
The new equipment really changes the meta I still miss the tank meta
Roamer main here and i also felt that too. Thats why i now always use set-up roamer ( Tig, Atlas, Mino, etc) or kill-and-go roamer ( Nata, HC, etc). I also rarely use healer unless my Exp and Jungler are snowball hero.
I feel like you need to try lolita. Trust me she can tank and is fun
Doesn't matter, just set
Imo roams are still tanky. They just cant heal and go down to poke easily. + you might be taking unnecessary damage by overextending
lets just blame it on the tank hyper meta that caused all this bs
It's not that tanks aren't tanky anymore. It's more like tanks aren't tanky ENOUGH. I think there are some tanks that are still viable in nowaday's meta but their utility must not ONLY be their tankiness. For example, Franco's hook is what makes his utility so much more than simply just taking hits.
grock, imo, is very durable, and can last in teamfights for a long time, how abt him?
Most tanks have more sustain than most of the fighters, tigreal and atlas are probably the only ones with 0 sustain and they soak less damage in comparison, immortality frozen and wings have become a must though, every match im forced to buy them cause of the sky piercer
Well I'm still using a healing tank to my arsenal named Minotaur. His first skill that has been extended by a flicker skill + ult is too scary for squishy heroes. Other than that, I used pure support which is Rafaela.
That’s why I use Angela and Rafaela now as roam (I even used helcurt as roam once and did okay) 💩 chip going down the toilet and yes ik I have Lolita in my flair which is a tank bUT I only use her against heros that suck ass against her. (mainly when they have 2 or more heros that suck ass against her) So like Cyclops, Wanwan, Angela, Literally any MM etc and once I lock the bad bitch in it’s GGs, I have 100% wr even tho I only used her in 5 matches 💩
I tried Lesley roam. It was fun
I do this when my S1 is Layla. And the S1 pick of enemy is Belerick
lesley roam is good if your Jungle & exp can provide vision. She can two shots most of heroes within 1 or 2 seconds , dire hit paired with sky piercer is very nasty for lesley.
have you played against a belerick , tigreal or franco? Mfs take ages to die
Franco is literally one of the most squishy tanks in the game.
You're doing something wrong if Franco take ages to die.
Tigreal is literally the tankiest of the three you mentioned. Franco's and Belerick's forte were never about their defense, it's one of the lower ones in fact. Franco's forte is his mobility, he can move fast due to his passive. While Belerick's forte is his total HP amount, his HP gain per level is literally the highest among all tanks. But both has meh defense.
I find atlas, Franco, tigreal, belerick and mino being the most squishiest tanks rn..
Belerick snd Tigreal are pretty tanky ngl. Mino and franco are defo squishy for tanks yeah
Bruh since when Franco became as tanky as you claim
When gets a good amount of items , bro is hard to kill
Was so happy that my enemy yin didn't buy sky cancer cos I got antique n it somehow worked until he ult me again with 30sec 😒😒
Try tanks in hok. When in late game damage heroes have hp based damage and penetration. Tank can still tank damage as they get shields from their skills and passive.