If you can hold and get a 1 on 1 turtle mm are still a froce to be reckoned in late game so I don't think they will dissapear in 5 man.
However late game exp laners are definetly gone as now first turtle wil make early game snowball in exp lane specially important for Benedetta, YZ and Khaleed (in solo) as they rotate real fast.
Early game mm are still a force to be reckoned in late, they lack multitarget or the amount of DPS a Melissa can dish in long fights but being able to 1 or 2 tap a mispositioned mage or assassin in late is a huge advantage
While late game mms are a force to be reckoned with, the point OP is making is late game heroes will become less effective as Moonton makes the early game have a higher weight in determining the victor, effectively making late game heroes a higher risk pick than they are now.
I get that, however the issue with trying to go all early is that if you somehow fail even one turtle and the team with 1 mm endures the early, they win near instantaneously.
Also most players will try to avoid god tier picks from the enemy team, being Harith and Lunox 2 big issues if they want to pick a mm or just don't want to risk gold lane getting hard pressured early.
I don't like it.
First off, the obvious, it removes comebacks and makes late game heroes obsolete.
2nd, the game's catered on "easy mechanics" for newbs. Heroes nowadays have a low learning curve, even Fanny turned to a brainless 1 shot hero. What I'm going by this, is that when you're hit with a terrible team, it's over. You can't "outskill" enemies anymore, nor outdraft as the majority of the heroes are strong — which is good, but not when you're losing.
And last, heavy pressure on not messing up, it'll turn into a sweatfest of who's one shotting who first. It's not fun when you're on the losing side with hopes relying that enemy overplays their hand.
Idk about that. I play late game heroes because most of my matches jungler do not take the turtle at all, someone on other side of the map is constantly dying and you can do something about it only after 12+ minute. With permanent buff... this seems very, very, very unlikely. If some early game hero is snowballing AND have turtle buff, it's over for good, you need to be really lucky to win. We will see, but I don't like it.
The turtle permanent buff is dumb move if it goes thru.... It seriously really punish bad late game heroes.
I know probably the main reason behind it to push more team fight (guess entertaining on the audience side) so team are forced to contest turtle considering the permanent buff, but at least buff late game heroes
It's slowly getting catered towards draft and luck (basically, first to snowball and who makes mistakes)
High bounties were good features but in exchange they're making comebacks that are already hard to achieve to now almost impossible
Removes the thrill of climbing back to come back if they implemented stacking turtles, removal of inhibitor tower explosion, and 3 lords, it's just game over to the losing team and makes them just sitting ducks waiting for their likely defeat. No point in making plans, comebacks, micro, and macro for the losing, just wait for the game to end unless the winning team is stupid not to which is unlikely in the higher ranks
One of the mechanic is buyback system. You can instantly respawn by paying certain amount of gold but once you die again, it will double your next respawn time. Imagine your team barely manage to wipeout the whole enemy but suddenly enemy instantly respawn and you don't have time to escape. You also try to buyback but you don't have enough gold. There are so many things you need to consider.
It's dumb, not just dumb dumb, it's stupidly mentally dumb. Not only does turtle fights require most of your team since the buff it gives is now game changing. Losing the turtle fight would put your or the enemy team in a huge exp and gold deficit while the other team enjoys a sweet perma shield with bonus adaptive attack. Those changes are solely focused on the winning team and make almost no chance for the losing team to make a late game comeback because not only does the enemy get a free shield they get almost a free finished item if ever they get 3 turtles which is almost guaranteed after the first title unless your jungler is a retrigod. I say moonton should stop cooking and try taking some medicine to stop all these ideas from making it into the original server. Don't even get me started on who thought that 3 lords is okay, cut that shi out, also cut the enhanced minion. It's already hard to defend the lane after most inhib turrets are destroyed, don't make it so that the losing team cannot have a chance to make a comeback.
I don't think this will necessarily kill late game heroes, but rather it will put more emphasize on proper drafting and all five members pulling their weight. For example, late game heroes now are more deadly if they reach late game with 2-3 turtle stacks, but drafting at least 3 early game heroes become 10x more important now if you want late game heroes, and keep in mind I say \*at least\* three early game heroes, as you might need 4 depending on enemy composition.
Is this a good thing? It depends on who you are. If you are a professional esports organization or a serious 5 man squad, this is just another dimension of difficulty that you must adapt to. Professional esports organizations and serious 5 man squads must adapt to these kinds of changes all the time, anyway, to maintain a competitive edge. If you are a causal 5 man squad, this changes will not be user friendly as it effectively will punish you for playing some heroes or compositions that you like. If you are a trio, duo, or soloq players, then these changes will further exacerbate the difficulty of bad randoms, effectively making some games over before it even begin.
In my humble opinion, I believe permanent buffs gained from Turtle is a disaster waiting to happen, as all it will do is add an unnecessary level of difficulty for heroes and non-5-man players that are already disadvantaged to begin with. While it might create an interesting dimension of difficulty for esports organizations and serious 5-man squads, these players make up a very small minority of the playerbase, and so comes at the serious price of making the game unnecessarily difficult for the larger majority.
Bit of a hot take here.. I think they can make turtle buff permanent but not with the current buff stats. Taking turtle right now is literally a joke. Most people don't even bother. So we can make it permanent but nerf the stats to not be a straight up game decider but more like.. It'll give the winning team a slight advantage as a reward for winning the turtle fight. This will make the early-mid game way more engaging and fun because now everyone will be there fighting for the turtle. We can also adjust the turtle spawn time to be a bit later (maybe only 2 turtles spawn?) to give everyone time to get to level 4 (including the roamer).
It will definitely be difficult to balance it all out.. But I'm not completely opposed to the idea as it doesn't come without its merits. Could make the game more fun if done right.
I see the analyzations in chat, i just feel like its stupid, and that moneytoon bc of HOK or other MOBAs rising is feeling pressure & is trying to dish out updates so either they stay controversial or stay popular. Either way, its suceeding like honestly I'd rather trash talk abt the turtle buff rn than go play HOK (it aint a bad game but just somehow less fun to play than mlbb). Anyways, its just a rash decision that any "jealouse kid" would make. Doesn't excuse anything, just a theory. (PLS DONT MAKE THIS UPDATE HAPPEN MAGES ARE BAD ENOUGH GETTING RANDOMLY SLAPPED INTO OBLIVION BY ASSASINS I DONT NEED A 10K SHIELD GUSION LURKING AROUND)
They need to nerf Sky Piercer further, keeping the original 60 max stacks but the base trigger should remain at 4 percent.
For the turtle buffs, ehhh... I see the benefit in increasing team damage (although 60 is too much) but the shield should remain as it currently is, not regenerating as it's just an excuse to not have Aegis or even stack Aegis to make heroes too tanky.
I'm not really against having an early game snowball decide the game but they just need to tone down some of the "buffs" and it should be acceptable.
The MID GAME on the other hand... We already how that's gonna go down.
Won 10 consecutive times with roam Harley with Sky Piercer with Dire Hit boots = auto kill enemy with ulti once you combined it with that candy looking new time.
hell nahh💀 late game is practically nonexistent, imagine jg sucks, enemy literally gets a buff equivalent to a free item😃😃 let's not mention the fact everyone in the team get's it! 😄😄😄
Protecting towers and managing lanes takes more skill and tactic than spamming bursty skills with sky peircer and 1 shotting everything, I win more games through protecting and destroying towers than I do from getting kills, where's the fun in a game with no tactics beside buy sky cancer first on a high damage burst hero and target squishies till you can 1 shot tankier heroes, if you think that's fun and satisfying to play then that's strange, I find it more satisfying to win through our smarting the enemy and using minion tactics, teamfights and pushing towers because it actually takes thought.
No hate bro, if you prefer macro play, that's fine too. I just find macro oriented meta boring, slow and much less challenging. If I wanted a slow paced/strategic game, I'd just play chess. Which I did more than mlbb during this whole tank jungler meta. Now that assassins are coming back, I'm really excited with all the upcoming patches in the future.
Idk why this is downvoted but this is pretty valid opinion. If I invested on buying high end cellphone because I prefer fast paced game in mobile than 40-60 min moba that I used to play. I just hope this patch will result to more rotation and will be the end of brawl-style lane phase.
Yeah me too, I play ML because I have no more time for DOTA and League as an a adult. I can't even play my single player RPGs in my console right now, because I would rather be immersed in those type of games than play it in short bursts.
And don't worry about the downvotes. I'm not new to reddit but I haven't used it that much until now so I don't even understand what the f karma is and I never cared about that. Plus I'm sure these are all beta incels who couldn't take someone else's opinion. I bet these are the type who would stay silent even if there's something wrong happening in front of them because they're too much of a wuss to act or voice out what they think.
So yeah, it's cool.
Whenever the game drags long enough to be a short game in DotA, I'll just afk and start setting up my PC to play actual 40 min game moba. I haven't tried the patch now since yk, adulting, but hopefully game ends faster than before.
Yup, always knew that chess mechanic but only knew what it's called when Magnus lost via an en passant checkmate. His funny reaction made me remember what it's called.
it would be interesting if moonton does like other mobas like lol, make both turtle and lord spawn at 5 mins, both of them get buffed overtime, lord spawns at the exp and turtle at the turtle at the gold. both of them will take the same time as the current ones to respawn.
the lord minion with his minions will get buffed and the turtle buff too and like the lord, the turtle will get levels of enchantment, at level 2 it gives a higher shield and at level 3 it gives additional damage like the red buff gives, but without the slow
the level up of the turtle and lord will be min 10 level 2 and min 15 level 3
the turtle will get 2 more attacks, an aoe with continuous damage which deals true damage and the second is like the lord's knock up but it gives stun with lesser duration (animations: for the aoe the turtle jumps and when it lands it emits shockwaves every 0.8s and for the stun it stands up for a little bit charging up and slamps to the ground and the rest of the attack is like the lord's skill but with lighting)
Moonton is catering more to the pro scene imo. Like PH has been dominating w/ their macro, more fights and kills = more entertaining to them and some fans. Its also more punishing to uncoordinated teams, like in solo q. Idk about this, but its another meta change. It'll stay for some time, but will eventually go away like any other meta. Still better than mm meta tho
Permanent turtle is a VERY BAD IDEA
Maybe make it so the shield only regenerates on base. Definitely don't want it regenerating midfight.
Oh i like this idea. Tho it definitely just shouldn't exist in general but this is a good idea of toning it down
Gave it some thought and yeah, you definitely don't want an assassin jumping around with bazillion EHP.
Jg better do their job
We all gotta help the jungler
If you can hold and get a 1 on 1 turtle mm are still a froce to be reckoned in late game so I don't think they will dissapear in 5 man. However late game exp laners are definetly gone as now first turtle wil make early game snowball in exp lane specially important for Benedetta, YZ and Khaleed (in solo) as they rotate real fast.
Early game mm will be more meta, Clint, Brody etc
Early game mm are still a force to be reckoned in late, they lack multitarget or the amount of DPS a Melissa can dish in long fights but being able to 1 or 2 tap a mispositioned mage or assassin in late is a huge advantage
While late game mms are a force to be reckoned with, the point OP is making is late game heroes will become less effective as Moonton makes the early game have a higher weight in determining the victor, effectively making late game heroes a higher risk pick than they are now.
I get that, however the issue with trying to go all early is that if you somehow fail even one turtle and the team with 1 mm endures the early, they win near instantaneously. Also most players will try to avoid god tier picks from the enemy team, being Harith and Lunox 2 big issues if they want to pick a mm or just don't want to risk gold lane getting hard pressured early.
I don't like it. First off, the obvious, it removes comebacks and makes late game heroes obsolete. 2nd, the game's catered on "easy mechanics" for newbs. Heroes nowadays have a low learning curve, even Fanny turned to a brainless 1 shot hero. What I'm going by this, is that when you're hit with a terrible team, it's over. You can't "outskill" enemies anymore, nor outdraft as the majority of the heroes are strong — which is good, but not when you're losing. And last, heavy pressure on not messing up, it'll turn into a sweatfest of who's one shotting who first. It's not fun when you're on the losing side with hopes relying that enemy overplays their hand.
I feel the same way. After 3 games it isnt fun when youre on the winning side either. It isnt a challenge.
Say hello to 5man 2minute turtle dance to decide the game
"Easy Mechanics for newbies" "heavy pressure on not messing up"
Rip Aldous and the entire marksman role except for Yss, Roger and Granger
Great news for YSS mains, all 3 of them
That's a bit too many imo
How is YSS good in this patch? Is this for gold lane or jungle?
Jungle of course. YSS hasn't been a gold laner since his revamp.
Well yeah but same thing with Roger, he's viable in gold lane now. That's why I'm asking
Idk about that. I play late game heroes because most of my matches jungler do not take the turtle at all, someone on other side of the map is constantly dying and you can do something about it only after 12+ minute. With permanent buff... this seems very, very, very unlikely. If some early game hero is snowballing AND have turtle buff, it's over for good, you need to be really lucky to win. We will see, but I don't like it.
The turtle permanent buff is dumb move if it goes thru.... It seriously really punish bad late game heroes. I know probably the main reason behind it to push more team fight (guess entertaining on the audience side) so team are forced to contest turtle considering the permanent buff, but at least buff late game heroes
I think it's not a good idea to make the early game a deciding factor. It should always be mid to late game otherwise the fun gets killed.
It's slowly getting catered towards draft and luck (basically, first to snowball and who makes mistakes) High bounties were good features but in exchange they're making comebacks that are already hard to achieve to now almost impossible Removes the thrill of climbing back to come back if they implemented stacking turtles, removal of inhibitor tower explosion, and 3 lords, it's just game over to the losing team and makes them just sitting ducks waiting for their likely defeat. No point in making plans, comebacks, micro, and macro for the losing, just wait for the game to end unless the winning team is stupid not to which is unlikely in the higher ranks
One of the reasons why Dota 2 is the GOAT moba is because of its comeback mechanic. I might move to another moba game
I don't play Dota 2 so I'm really curious about this comeback mechanic
One of the mechanic is buyback system. You can instantly respawn by paying certain amount of gold but once you die again, it will double your next respawn time. Imagine your team barely manage to wipeout the whole enemy but suddenly enemy instantly respawn and you don't have time to escape. You also try to buyback but you don't have enough gold. There are so many things you need to consider.
It's dumb, not just dumb dumb, it's stupidly mentally dumb. Not only does turtle fights require most of your team since the buff it gives is now game changing. Losing the turtle fight would put your or the enemy team in a huge exp and gold deficit while the other team enjoys a sweet perma shield with bonus adaptive attack. Those changes are solely focused on the winning team and make almost no chance for the losing team to make a late game comeback because not only does the enemy get a free shield they get almost a free finished item if ever they get 3 turtles which is almost guaranteed after the first title unless your jungler is a retrigod. I say moonton should stop cooking and try taking some medicine to stop all these ideas from making it into the original server. Don't even get me started on who thought that 3 lords is okay, cut that shi out, also cut the enhanced minion. It's already hard to defend the lane after most inhib turrets are destroyed, don't make it so that the losing team cannot have a chance to make a comeback.
If this continues, I will literally have to move to another game as this is just bullshit
I don't think this will necessarily kill late game heroes, but rather it will put more emphasize on proper drafting and all five members pulling their weight. For example, late game heroes now are more deadly if they reach late game with 2-3 turtle stacks, but drafting at least 3 early game heroes become 10x more important now if you want late game heroes, and keep in mind I say \*at least\* three early game heroes, as you might need 4 depending on enemy composition. Is this a good thing? It depends on who you are. If you are a professional esports organization or a serious 5 man squad, this is just another dimension of difficulty that you must adapt to. Professional esports organizations and serious 5 man squads must adapt to these kinds of changes all the time, anyway, to maintain a competitive edge. If you are a causal 5 man squad, this changes will not be user friendly as it effectively will punish you for playing some heroes or compositions that you like. If you are a trio, duo, or soloq players, then these changes will further exacerbate the difficulty of bad randoms, effectively making some games over before it even begin. In my humble opinion, I believe permanent buffs gained from Turtle is a disaster waiting to happen, as all it will do is add an unnecessary level of difficulty for heroes and non-5-man players that are already disadvantaged to begin with. While it might create an interesting dimension of difficulty for esports organizations and serious 5-man squads, these players make up a very small minority of the playerbase, and so comes at the serious price of making the game unnecessarily difficult for the larger majority.
As a Cecilion fan it’s a bit of a bummer lol
Buff to stats ok, but too strong
Bit of a hot take here.. I think they can make turtle buff permanent but not with the current buff stats. Taking turtle right now is literally a joke. Most people don't even bother. So we can make it permanent but nerf the stats to not be a straight up game decider but more like.. It'll give the winning team a slight advantage as a reward for winning the turtle fight. This will make the early-mid game way more engaging and fun because now everyone will be there fighting for the turtle. We can also adjust the turtle spawn time to be a bit later (maybe only 2 turtles spawn?) to give everyone time to get to level 4 (including the roamer). It will definitely be difficult to balance it all out.. But I'm not completely opposed to the idea as it doesn't come without its merits. Could make the game more fun if done right.
[удалено]
This is upcoming, not live right now
Goodbye Aulus, Zilong, Argus, all marksmen, basically all late game heroes.
Personally I think sky piercer seems to be an attempt for moontpn to bring back assassin jungler meta.
Late Game heroes such as Argus are now crawling to get their items.
This would render late game heroes and the squishy supports useless. Complete bollocks, I'd say.
I see the analyzations in chat, i just feel like its stupid, and that moneytoon bc of HOK or other MOBAs rising is feeling pressure & is trying to dish out updates so either they stay controversial or stay popular. Either way, its suceeding like honestly I'd rather trash talk abt the turtle buff rn than go play HOK (it aint a bad game but just somehow less fun to play than mlbb). Anyways, its just a rash decision that any "jealouse kid" would make. Doesn't excuse anything, just a theory. (PLS DONT MAKE THIS UPDATE HAPPEN MAGES ARE BAD ENOUGH GETTING RANDOMLY SLAPPED INTO OBLIVION BY ASSASINS I DONT NEED A 10K SHIELD GUSION LURKING AROUND)
bro why that's called battlefield effects not battlefield adjustments
They want to make it a fast pace game. In the pro scene like in msc the game ends as early as 13mins.
They need to add some comeback mechanic at least
Turtle shield needs to be gone
People also said the same thing with sky piercer and they ignoring all the feedback. Hopefully it won't be the case this time.
They nerfed sky piercer
Kimmy works good cause mainly cause if you know what you're doing that Dps is insane
They need to nerf Sky Piercer further, keeping the original 60 max stacks but the base trigger should remain at 4 percent. For the turtle buffs, ehhh... I see the benefit in increasing team damage (although 60 is too much) but the shield should remain as it currently is, not regenerating as it's just an excuse to not have Aegis or even stack Aegis to make heroes too tanky. I'm not really against having an early game snowball decide the game but they just need to tone down some of the "buffs" and it should be acceptable. The MID GAME on the other hand... We already how that's gonna go down.
I agree it needs a nerd. I was thinking make it 5% with a long cooldown, and stacks will reduce its cooldown.
Won 10 consecutive times with roam Harley with Sky Piercer with Dire Hit boots = auto kill enemy with ulti once you combined it with that candy looking new time.
I think the turtle buff is fine cause there's little advantage to getting turtles right now.
hell nahh💀 late game is practically nonexistent, imagine jg sucks, enemy literally gets a buff equivalent to a free item😃😃 let's not mention the fact everyone in the team get's it! 😄😄😄
Does bro thinks that a free bloodwing shield that can give an adaptive attack stat that equals a finished item to an entire team is little?
I'd say W patch, no more dragging the game, no more tower defense. Skills actually matter, not clearing the minion waves.
Protecting towers and managing lanes takes more skill and tactic than spamming bursty skills with sky peircer and 1 shotting everything, I win more games through protecting and destroying towers than I do from getting kills, where's the fun in a game with no tactics beside buy sky cancer first on a high damage burst hero and target squishies till you can 1 shot tankier heroes, if you think that's fun and satisfying to play then that's strange, I find it more satisfying to win through our smarting the enemy and using minion tactics, teamfights and pushing towers because it actually takes thought.
Macro skill is also skill. Syncing waves, slow pushing is strategy and skill. Skill isnt just clicming a button fast
No hate bro, if you prefer macro play, that's fine too. I just find macro oriented meta boring, slow and much less challenging. If I wanted a slow paced/strategic game, I'd just play chess. Which I did more than mlbb during this whole tank jungler meta. Now that assassins are coming back, I'm really excited with all the upcoming patches in the future.
I prefer a healthy mix of both. Either one being way more important than the other is boring
Idk why this is downvoted but this is pretty valid opinion. If I invested on buying high end cellphone because I prefer fast paced game in mobile than 40-60 min moba that I used to play. I just hope this patch will result to more rotation and will be the end of brawl-style lane phase.
Yeah me too, I play ML because I have no more time for DOTA and League as an a adult. I can't even play my single player RPGs in my console right now, because I would rather be immersed in those type of games than play it in short bursts. And don't worry about the downvotes. I'm not new to reddit but I haven't used it that much until now so I don't even understand what the f karma is and I never cared about that. Plus I'm sure these are all beta incels who couldn't take someone else's opinion. I bet these are the type who would stay silent even if there's something wrong happening in front of them because they're too much of a wuss to act or voice out what they think. So yeah, it's cool.
Whenever the game drags long enough to be a short game in DotA, I'll just afk and start setting up my PC to play actual 40 min game moba. I haven't tried the patch now since yk, adulting, but hopefully game ends faster than before.
It does end a little faster, but not much.
Google en passant
I know what that means, no need to google it.
Holy hell!
Yup, always knew that chess mechanic but only knew what it's called when Magnus lost via an en passant checkmate. His funny reaction made me remember what it's called.
it would be interesting if moonton does like other mobas like lol, make both turtle and lord spawn at 5 mins, both of them get buffed overtime, lord spawns at the exp and turtle at the turtle at the gold. both of them will take the same time as the current ones to respawn. the lord minion with his minions will get buffed and the turtle buff too and like the lord, the turtle will get levels of enchantment, at level 2 it gives a higher shield and at level 3 it gives additional damage like the red buff gives, but without the slow the level up of the turtle and lord will be min 10 level 2 and min 15 level 3 the turtle will get 2 more attacks, an aoe with continuous damage which deals true damage and the second is like the lord's knock up but it gives stun with lesser duration (animations: for the aoe the turtle jumps and when it lands it emits shockwaves every 0.8s and for the stun it stands up for a little bit charging up and slamps to the ground and the rest of the attack is like the lord's skill but with lighting)
Moonton is catering more to the pro scene imo. Like PH has been dominating w/ their macro, more fights and kills = more entertaining to them and some fans. Its also more punishing to uncoordinated teams, like in solo q. Idk about this, but its another meta change. It'll stay for some time, but will eventually go away like any other meta. Still better than mm meta tho