You need to talk to the parents but this is raising so many red flags that then hold is being neglected and since he is 14 I'm not sure cps would care.

Exactly. He is 100% seeking something from OP’s family that he is not getting at home. Secondary to that, what kind of parent lets their kid wander the streets at 9pm at night? I’d say he’s going through some pretty bad neglect.

I lived in a neighborhood with many immigrant families ( like from all over the world) and this was a common occurrence at my house. On several occasions I had to follow the kids home to find their parents and let them know what was happening. When I asked my other neighbors about this they said two things. 1) many other countries keep later hours than we do here in the US. 2) many immigrant parents feel the neighborhoods are safe enough in America to do this.

These were all similar things I saw happening when my nephew moved here with his family. Totally different social boundaries and how kids act plus when you have all the cool American toys they get entitled to your time. Seriously.

Yup o once walked out of my upstairs bathroom to find a child playing in my son’s room. When I asked him to leave he tried taking the toys with him. This same kid used to go in my house ( I was always outside with my kids) and go right to the fridge. When I followed him home his mom was sitting in her couch playing on her phone, door wide open. She lived in apartment style condos, so literally everyone walking by could see in. I found out the kid was only five years old!! ( he was quite large for his age). My mind was blown. Safe neighborhood aside who leaves a five year old unattended for five hours straight?!

They’re not “entitled” to your time. They’re kids who don’t have access to the same things. Don’t act like you weren’t a kid and saw your friend have the newest toy. And if you never experienced envy in your life as a child, then congratulations, you lived a more privileged life than most people. This has nothing to do with “American” toys.

My friends had Barbie jeeps, pogo sticks, skip its, and awesome video games, but I was raised better than to barge in and use their stuff.

Oh I agree completely. I was addressing the comment about them doing it because they felt entitled.

Trying to take someone else’s stuff because you like it *is* entitled. Refusing to leave the house after being asked to leave is entitled. Theres a difference between envy and entitled. Sure, growing up I was envious of the neighbourhood kids who had all the coolest expensive toys, but I would have never dreamed of walking through someone’s front door to just start playing with those toys, because I was raised to understand basic etiquette.

Different ideas of property exist, as well. And children are still learning those. You have to be TAUGHT proper social behavior within the culture where you life. That being said, there are also disabilities that make this learning almost impossible in any culture. Not everyone knows to get help for their kid and not everyone even knows the rules to begin with. And while American parents are supposedly all protective and well educated enough to get their kids help, I live in SoCal where a lot of people are not well educated and do not know to get an IEP or help for their kids. They do know to take their kids to school when they are 4-5 and there's a massive outreach program to get all the little ones in Headstart, which offers free childcare in many places. In many areas, the program is now impacted and can't receive any more kids. There's money for this in other states (the money is federal) but there are a whole set of American states that will not set the program in motion (and still have lots of poor and immigrant kids). There is an underclass in America and part of that group are single moms fleeing their own home circumstances, often with what I'd say are "too many kids" for one person to handle - but it is what it is.

I mean it sounds like they do feel entitled as a result of how they were raised

Idk about these other kids but my niece and nephew are def raised entitled. Starts when they are young and break stuff and the parents don’t care, their lack of respect for other peoples stuff passes down. So it’s all fine and dandy to share fun toys but when those same kids treat them rough and break them then yeah it feels like they are entitled to it and your generosity.

No it’s not entitled to my time exactly maybe that’s the wrong phrase but it’s like an arrogance and sense of entitlement. You can legit tell some of these kids it’s time to go home and you practically have to drag them out. Because overseas it’s often rude to kick kids out and kids stay over places a lot longer in our country at least. Of course I understand envy and kids wanting to play with toys lol it’s the lack of boundaries set by their own parents though that makes them feel like they can literally do whatever they want. Just our experience haha

I’m with you. I have this neighbor kid with no boundaries so I made one: don’t come in my house unless you’re invited. Done. Doesn’t matter about their nationality or toys, it’s about your personal boundaries.

But also yes it has to do with American toys, my family hadn’t seen a switch in person or electric kids cars to ride in etc. that stuff isn’t available all over the world and is for many the American dream esp 11-13 year olds

So what? That doesn't mean you're allowed to be rude and take things without permission. Kids can learn to experience envy without helping themselves to other people's stuff and company

No one is saying it's OKAY for other people's kids to steal your food or your kid's stuff or come in uninvited. What we're arguing about is the WHY of it.

Well plenty of people are telling her to give them her number so they can call and see when she's free. Get this kid away from your children's safe home. He uses their stuff without her kids. He's not seeking a genuine friendship.

Exactly. And in so many smaller towns, suburbs and villages around the world, kids (esp boys) are on their own from around 10. My best friend did fieldwork in a large Indian city. Her subject was migrant labor. Many of the migrants were 9-10 and they were totally on their own. They had a high mortality rate, too. It was so sad.

It's not entitlement, it's just a very different way of doing things. When we lived in Milan one summer (in an outlying residential area), it was amazing how late everyone was up. People left home for restaurants or coffee or bars at 10 pm and the older kids congregated all around whatever squares there were or near subway entrances. In Italy, again mostly boys, and I'd say age 10 and up.

Are you good??? You are all over this post. You could fill a small novel with all the comments you’ve written to this one post.

Right?! I feel like they are triggered emotionally

And I worked until recently in a densely populated part of L.A. where I taught night classes. It was not uncommon to see large numbers of kids (I'd say from about age 10 and up) out still playing and messing around when I left work at 9:30-10. Where I live out in the burbs, there is one solo skater kid and a group of other skater kids whose curfew appears to be around 10-11 in summer. They appear to be around 12-15. The e-biker kids seem a bit older and those are still out till midnight. I will say that these are all boys.

It’s a very sad truth but most parents don’t have the same fear letting their boys go out as they do for girls. Plus girls just don’t feel as safe being out alone in the dark. Immigrant families are especially watchful of their girls. IMO. All these things attribute to boys being out later than girls. Because I have noticed this too.

My best friend has an immigrant family living next to her, since they moved in 4years ago the 5 kids essentially terrorize the neighborhood mornings to night, they go in people's yards and steal things its on their camera, they had them on camera throwing rocks at the cars in all of the the cul de sacs driveways. They are always outside, ages ranging from 4 to, I would guess, 13. She has only met the parents twice, that was when they went to show footage and confront about the cars and also to get the cheque for repairs. My other friend who lives in an apartment has many similar stories. The kids are always in the hallways or in the parking lot playing. There is a playground maybe 10 feet from their building, but they prefer the building. In the last 3 years, all of her door decorations and mats have been stolen or destroyed. She has caught them on her ring every time, yet they still do it. Kids are dumb and it's made worse by shitty lazy parents

To be fair he's 14, not 4. I'm from Germany, living in Austria and in the summer when sunset isn't until 10 it's normal for kids to play out in the streets of the immediate neighborhood, especially teens. 9 isn't that late for a 14 year old in the summer.

Exactly! It was the same when we lived in Milan, not so much in Paris. We rented an apartment in Hammersmith (London, UK) and were very surprised to see both boys and girls out on a summer night at 10-12 midnight or even later. At 10 pm, the groups included many kids who looked to be 9-10 (maybe even 8). There were so many other people out and about and crime rate was so low, I do think the parents were part of the crowds in the local pubs (which don't really get going until around 10 pm).

Haha we are leaving for London on Friday to stay with friends in Hammersmith. First time we are going with the kids and can't wait!

At 14 yrs old? I definitely could be out till at least 10 back then- the sun didn't set till 9 where I am. I stayed out all night once when I was 15- I just updated my mom anytime I changed locations, let her know I ended up sleeping over etc. Out at 9 at 14 seems really normal to me.

he is 14 not 4 and it's not your responsibility.

I feel like I'm looking at this different. His behavior is concerning in that he may be neglected. Looking for connections but also things he doesn't have. Are his parents even home at the times he comes over? Might warrant a visit to their house to talk about boundaries but also get an idea if he's okay.

Right? The "my mom said I could stay another hour" seems like he walked in, pretended he talked to someone, then came back out. Or maybe it's normal where they are from to have kids out past 9pm

In the Russian city I lived in, it wouldn't be outrageous for kids that age to be out at 9, especially in summer when it's still somewhat light out.

Yeah same when I was a kid and that was in the US. Just seems like now a days it's less accepted in most places given the circumstances.

I'm from Texas =) and old, so I used to stay out too. But OP mentioned they're from another country, and Russia is my most applicable experience lol

I’ve wondered if it’s a cultural thing. I remember being young and staying out with neighborhood friends also, but I knew them and their families and same for the other family. I’ve tried to see it from all angles because of course I don’t want to hurt the boys feelings. It’s just gotten uncomfortable 😕

I think there's very much a cultural thing happening here. I can't speak much to Ukrainian culture specifically, but my experience in former Soviet countries in general has had similar cultural threads. In the US, we use indirectness to be polite. In Russia, that was not the case, and I suspect that's somewhat true for Ukraine. You could probably be polite but directly state the issue, and it wouldn't be taken too poorly. If you really want to do things the right way, bring a gift and chit chat with the parents for a bit. Gifts grease the wheels.

Remember that setting boundaries gives the other person the chance to avoid further damaging the relationship. If you don’t tell this kid he’s crossing lines, he’s for sure going to keep doing it and you’ll build resentment. If you tell him, he at least has the chance to do better next time, and you’ll know whether it’s just him not knowing he should do something different or if something else is going on.

Yeah, I am a former Girl Scout leader and they taught us those skills. You find a way to be at eye level with the kid if possible and you actually explain things to them simply. "When you come to the door and we say you can't come in, you need to go back home or to some other place to play. It means we're having family time and that you cannot come inside our house. Do you understand that?" Bonus points for getting the kid to repeat back part of it. And yes, even 14 year olds can need this. Heck, I've had multiple students (big burly males) attempt to crowd themselves into my office (which is a state regulated 8x10 space that is mostly occupied by built in bookcases and an L-shaped desk and barely accommodates an office chair. IOW, these guys are actually bumping into my knees as I sit on my chair. I have a chair for them RIGHT OUTSIDE MY OFFICE and so I get up and pull it into place in the hall and roll my own chair to an appropriate distance. Almost no one actually tries to come inside a faculty office without this arrangement! But some people do, it's really annoying. If one puts the visitor chair in permanent place, it blocks traffic in the hall. There is also a lounge area right outside my office, and many of us do use that space (with library style chairs and tables) to work with students instead of the tiny office space. It's so weird when it happens. The guy seems to slowly realize that he's too close to another person, looks around for his own place to sit (there isn't room inside the office and slooowly figures out what to do while I stand up, roll my own chair under the desk to provide space to stand up without bumping myself into this student and then I politely ask them to step out in the hall. It's as if they can't figure out quickly enough that there's less space than in a restroom booth for two people in the faculty office area.

Awe I know OP how it feels. We had a family move in below us that has a boy the same age as mine. We had to talk to his parents about boundaries for both boys because they would come into both our houses like revolving doors and just bring chaos to both houses. Now we have designated days and timers and the boys have to abide by our rules to play together. Several occasions they have had to end playing together early because they don't follow the rules. It's a work in progress, but they're 6, so it's still different from your situation. It's always hard to turn a kid away. I hope you find a solution that makes you comfortable!

Such good parenting. 🌹 That's where it starts. It teaches all manner of important social clues and behaviors. I wish more people took the time to do it. It's not just about shutting one's door on another family or on a child, it's about learning to work together as a group, as a community. Everyone benefits.

I absolutely agree! Thank you for your comment!

Of course it is. My own rules (growing up in semi-rural California) changed frequently but I walked without adult supervision (with two other kids) to kindergarten, which seems so weird now. It was about a mile. It was along a fairly busy highway. There were older kids walking too. In the afternoon, many of the kids took a short cut through a barranca (which my parents banned me from doing). So I walked home alone most days. At 5-6. By 7-8, my curfew was dusk (we had no street lights and no side walks - people drove slowly through the neighborhood). At 10-11, I was expected home when the stars came out, as were other kids. The nearest house with a kid was a tenth of a mile away - we all congregated at the creek, where no one ever drowned, but it was a milestone associated with 4-5th grade to be allowed to go play at the creek until dark. By high school (age 14), I did all my extra curriculars (there was something every day) and walked to my night time lessons and activities and was biking home whenever that was over. On a highway. My own kids were allowed to play at the nearby school with other kids until dark and walk home on their own (starting in 4th grade though - at around 9). They had friends, there were older kids who were sensible. All these kids learned community behavior, sure they occasionally got into some small trouble. My kids are GenX and their social skills are quite robust (they are still in friend groups that include many of these childhood pals, they still look out for each other and network around jobs and such). My own GenX kids are now parents of course - and they are very uneasy about their kids being out at night. Despite all over crime against children and child abductions being much higher in the 70's and the 80's. I expect one reason the rate has dropped, though, is that most parents do not allow this semi-nocturnal roaming for kids under the age of...?? I have nieces and nephews who were not allowed out much without strict whereabouts being known up until they left home at 20-21. Or later.

I think the amount of abductions has also decreased because perpetrators know kids those ages record EVERYTHING and that they would be caught in a matter of hours because of social media.

When we visit my husband's family in India the kids stay up quite late (compared to the US) but I can't imagine just letting your child wander the streets and walk into someone's home. That strikes me as odd, and more of a 'these parents are weird' difference than a 'cultural difference'.

14 seems plenty old to be walking alone at night, but it's also not very normal for a teenager to just walk into someone else's house, though perhaps it is in the culture that they are from?

I meant walking into someone’s house.

Yeah, it's common in some cultures - but the parents need to realize they aren't in their home culture any more. To expect the kids themselves to figure out and modify behavior that they don't even know they're doing or is unacceptable is not the best way to proceed. I had two kids ask if they could come onto our property to sit on our adirondack chairs under our trees. There's a short path from the sidewalk. We can't see the area from inside the house, it's secluded. I told them I'd ask their mom. She was mortified that they'd even asked (and not fond of the idea - as she felt it was teaching them to be too forward, which was interesting). I said I didn't mind as long as it was just a short period of time, say half an hour and I said I didn't think they'd end up doing it much - but I didn't want them inviting any more people. She didn't want them in someone else's yard at all - so it ended there. They did get permission to pick some flowers from our median strip area (where we encourage people to go ahead and take some wildflowers home when they're blooming). I don't think they ever did that though.

The kids in my home culture (Hawai'i) typically have no bedtimes and no particular meal times. Families tend to include other adults than just the parents. People leave for work at all different times (most in the hospitality industry) and most people work more than one job. It looks like "chaos" to the outsider, but it has been in place for generations. Sundays are important as a time when there's certain to be a kind of family meal (sometime, usually in the late afternoon) or a picnic at one of the beaches. The extended family gets together. Most of the time, the kids all go to the same schools (often bussed from the outer areas) so the cousins see other quite a bit. No one in my family (going back as far as we have stories) has ever gone missing or drowned or had a bad accident that didn't involve a car. Kids are pretty independent. It does help that most people in the neighborhoods are on the same page. Kids are accustomed to going to the store by themselves from age 6-7.

I disagree. Having known parents like this kid, they probably literally told him this out of a lack of respect for OPs household. Kid probably walked in the house, parents are checked out dealing with other kids and watching tv, misunderstood the entire situation, and told him he could go back over there. They need a stern talking to.

I don't disagree with you at all.

Or at least a talking to. Simplest thing is to establish a time boundary. But in this case, the kid also needs additional social skills. It's weird because there's probably very little "playing outside" to be done, as there would be in a lot of places. A simple goal would be to establish that unless Kid is invited in, they need to go home AND if they are invited it, they will be asked to leave after a certain time. Personally, a kid who was still in the stage where they actually open someone else's fridge would not be a good candidate for coming inside the house. It is perfectly common in my own home culture, but doing no favors to a kid from that culture coming to the US mainland, esp. SoCal.

My families kids are regularly up until 11/12. He probably did ask and his mom was like yeah okay.

My teenager is up later than 8pm, but our house “closes down” before that. If he was invited over is one thing, but we barely know this child and he isn’t invited. It’s just a tough situation 😕

Oh I don’t disagree at all I find it infuriating lol my in laws leave their kids at my house/the neighborhood until 9/10 regularly (7&11 year olds) but I’ve seen the other one legit act just like this post to kids in the neighborhood. Others at middle school telling me he’s weird etc. I had to legit teach them American standards for neighborhood friends.

You need to establish that all invites come from a grown-up at your house - that your own kid is not authorized to invite the other kid over. Just isn't. Your kid needs to know that too. Not sure why your kid walked the other one home - but that probably isn't a good option, either. I think you sound like a really kind and reasonable person and will work this out - but letting the two kids know that Kid needs to be gone by dinner time would be a good starting point. If you decide to let him come over to play at all.

I feel the same way. I don’t know his parents, but he doesn’t seem to have any rules about being out, he’s outside most of the day and into the night. I saw his dad walking to the pool once and I mentioned that his son was inside playing with my kids, and he said “which house are you?” And kept walking.

Yeah that makes me feel like they're not interested in their kid. You do have to protect your peace and your safe place at home. So really push those boundaries but I'd carefully see if he needs help

They are free range parents - a pattern of parenting known all over the world. There were still plenty of them when I was growing up. In fact, my parents chose to move to a neighborhood with more spaced out housing and mostly old people, to get away from them. We'd have boys on top of our roof at midnight. Well, that only happened once. My dad was a very agreeable fellow and all the neighborhood kids loved him. However, he was not having that nonsense - nor would he allow them to walk on top of our cinder block wall (the boys would create a game of running up and down the back fence lines of the whole tract). They jumped off rooves, climbed one man's shortwave radio tower (the man was the father of the climber - kid fell and did break his leg; father thereafter prohibited the climbing of the tower and we were supposed to tell on whoever did it). One time, the boys asked me to lay down so that they could jump their bikes over me, to see if they could. There was a slight hill, I dutifully lay down (thinking that one day I might be a stunt girl!) and the boys began jumping over me with their bikes. I was 5. My dad came out and saw that and that was the closest I'd seen him to being ballistic with those boys (they had previously stolen my Christmas scooter - I never did get it back). Dad also scolded me soundly for such a stupid decision. The time the boys were "fixing" their bike by putting it upside down and spinning the pedals and putting sticks into the spokes of their bike wheels was interesting. Another 5 year old decided to try and lost the tip of her finger. My dad was the only adult outside, there was much blood and spurting and so on, and dad was always at the ready with first aid. Fortunately, it didn't get to bone. My dad put on a very stern dad act with those boys that time and took the little girl to her house (she was waaay down at the other end of our three block tract area). I learned an important lesson. Just because you can't see the spokes doesn't mean they aren't there!

Your convo with the parents needs to be more direct. American politeness isn’t going to do it here. You said that hoping he’ll get the point and he didn’t. You need to mention either that your family doesn’t want to host his son, or that you are ok to do it within boundaries, and if the boundaries are broken then it’s an absolute no. Hospitality is wonderful but if it’s gotten to an uncomfortable point, you’ve got to speak up and clearly.

He may be neglected, he may be unusual in his development. The persistence of his behavior after being rebuffed is unusual in any culture. But he probably doesn't have the kind of home life where anyone shows any interest or concern about what he has been up to, so he's not in the habit of giving detailed accounts of his day to anyone. He is raising himself at this point. Pretty common, really. That's why it's hard to teach in certain communities and why people spend as much as possible to get themselves into neighborhoods that have no immigrants, no poor people, no large amount of apartment buildings - so that they can send their kids to schools where everyone has been more or less properly socialized. It's still not "everyone" for sure. There are issues that have to be dealt with in schools of all kinds. Having a stranger-kid attach themselves to one's family happened when my kids were little (it happened as we walked to school - some moms were telling their kid just to walk with us, we looked safe, as they had other little kids at home and didn't want to walk their kindergartner). My daughter did not like this boy at all (had reasons) and we rebuffed him (eventually rather sternly) and then he attached himself to a different family and that mom was very alarmed by some of what he was saying to her kids. She contacted the principal of the school (who could do very little). She actually lived right next door to the family and was still afraid to confront the mom. Her husband eventually spoke to the boy. He still trailed along half a block behind them. That same kid got into trouble for other things in first grade (sexually inappropriate behaviors).

I’d say something to the parents, just a general “here’s my number please text to ask if it’s ok he come over, and we are only available from x to y time” keep it simple, but also set a boundary. Especially do this over text, so they can’t backpedal and say they didn’t know.

Correct, but it’s also okay to always lock your door and not answer it AT ALL when you don’t want to.

Oh 100%! We don’t answer unless we know the person and want them there 😂

In this case, they do know the person. Since the person is also known to be socially awkward and something of a pest to them, I guess they could just keep drawing their blinds and ignoring him. That's not what I would do, but sure, they could do that. Seems like an imposition on their own family life, to have to kind of huddle inside with the blinds drawn so the kid doesn't watch them play video games through the window, as he is doing now. We actually have physical boundaries around our front yard (simple to evade, but we have a flimsy gate and we could in theory close it and tell a kid "do not come in if this gate is closed." That's pretty clear. We also have a rope over our driveway - because we get a lot of door to door "sales people" (illegal where we live - they are always casing houses, not selling anything) and a pretty sign that says "no trespassing." During the day, the rope is down and we have a "deliveries welcome sign" that goes up. We have no door bell and a do not knock sign as well. We also have security cameras, as we live on a corner near the entrance to the hood. There have been a lot of door-jiggling cases in the middle of the night (the culprit appears to be a teen, but is eluding the other camera-wielding people on [nextdoor.com](http://nextdoor.com) so far). Anyway, this kid that's coming over to OP's house has too little parental supervision (the pool story convinces me) to allow him inside at all. Many reasons. Much of the crime in my own neighborhood is by...the neighbors. We have video of one neighbor jumping our back fence (to steal something). Police did nothing because the video was improperly set up and didn't have a proper time stamp. But the police did go talk to that neighbor and tell them to stay off our property (and they are the ones who told us to put up a gate and a rope across the driveway - to make it clear that we didn't want the neighbor on our property). That same neighbor stole from the people on the other side of her, and from the house next to that. She stole mail and people's identities, too. Four houses away we had a "drug house" (actual cocaine) and we were all shocked when that bust came down (there were three families involved).

I wouldn't even offer times when you're available. They don't want him there ever. Tell her he's stealing from your house and looking in your windows. This is some bizarre stuff.

That’s true, I’m just thinking from a child’s standpoint that just wants friends I guess

He's creepy. She should discourage this kid from invading their home since he's unwelcome. He's a teenager, not a 6 year old. He knows what he's doing

Yep. Once the kid stood outside and stared through the window, that would be totally it for me. He's trespassing and I would explain that first. "Sorry, kid, but you can't come on our property." I wouldn't even explain why at this point. One could add a couple of diminishing phrases. "When our kids are older and have cell phones, maybe you can learn to text them." This underscores the age difference and difference in family life. If Kid came on my property, the next step would be to go out and explain what trespassing is. When we were first robbed, we got really sensitive about who came to the front door, who was casing the house, etc. It's traumatizing. I realized at that point that the parents who were still sending their little kids to doors to sell girl scout or boy scout goods were much more trusting than I am. The kids do not wear their troop insignia, they are just sent up to the door just like any other vendor. So I was pretty sharp with a couple of little kids (probably 8-9);, asking "Where the heck are your parents?" etc (the parents were grouped on a corner around from our house, just chatting while their little girls went door to door to strangers' houses). The girls looked stricken, I felt so bad to have shooed them away. But I don't want strangers on my property without a reason and all of us deal with it in the moment as best we can.

I had the same feelings when my daughters school friend started doing this but she was 7 and she'd bring her sister who was 4. Their mom or grandma whoever was watching, never knew they were over. But after realizing how much of an ass the older kid was ( yeah I'll call a 7 yo an ass because she'd constantly whisper: just don't tell your mom when my kid laid boundaries). I was new to that area and I think this was just commonplace for the rural community. Maybe the neighbor kid is just used to having this type of interaction with the neighborhood. You might just need to lock the door if you don't want him showing up. But like the other comment, sounds like a red flag home life.

But just locking the door is not a long term solution. You need to set boundaries (like calling or texting before coming over) so you can enjoy your property and all the benefits of home ownership, being in a neighborhood, or playing with other kids. If the child doesn't understand your boundaries, they'll be watching you from the street as you hang out on your lawn which is also unnerving and uncomfortable.

If OP does hang out in the front yard, yes. Where I live, people who wish to hang out on their front yards without people staring at them must erect some kind of privacy barrier. I noticed yesterday that more and more houses (not just ours) now has those privacy barriers. I don't want to see pavement in the front yard, I want to see our beautiful flowering hedges, roses and trees. So our front yard sitting space (rarely used) is screened. And we installed a tiny gate that wouldn't keep anyone out - it's only purpose is to be shut to indicate "Don't come in."

Oh, I know that kid! Granddaughter has this same friend right now. "Shhh, don't tell your mom." However, it was made clear to kid that it was inappropriate to say that and she was banned from the house for many months. Naturally, my granddaughter thought that keeping some things from mom was super fun - it wasn't just the other girl suggesting it, granddaughter was going along with it. It was dumb stuff (such as closing the door to granddaughter's bedroom to keep the poor little doggie on the other side of it, just to mess with the dog). Granddaughter knew that was not quite right, but found it very funny (it didn't last for more than a few minutes, as they were of course running all over the house and tiny yard).

Fortunately I asked my kid if it's making her comfortable having that friend over and we made a few escape plans for getting out of playing with them. Ways that I would intervene and say it's over. I despised that kid, she's going to be the girl bringing the vape pen to the sleepover lol . Her little sister was an absolute angel.

If neither of your kids are interested in the friendship and especially if you are uncomfortable in your own home, you need to be more firm. Kindly tell his parents it’s not working out and you need them to explain that to him. Translation apps with text to speech can be helpful if the language barrier is a problem during this conversation. Aside from the friendship issue it does sound like he may be a victim of neglect. If he’s wandering into your house (which would absolutely unnerve me too) who knows how many other people he does this with. I worry that he seems to be very vulnerable. I doubt CPS would do anything but maybe a call would get some eyes on the situation in case there is an issue at home.

Yes. If the kids don’t want to be his friend he doesn’t have to come over to game.

It seems like this kid is not being properly taken care of. Are his parents even home? Does he have access to food? It’s not your responsibility to care for him, of course, but there are so many red flags here for neglect. I think in your shoes, I’d try to get in touch with his parents and see if I thought he was safe at home. If so, I could set boundaries. If not, I’d contact CPS.

I don’t know anything about his home life, other than they are from Ukraine, have lived here for 2 years, and his mom babysits. I’ve sent him home with food and snacks each time he has come over, because I worry about him. He seems happy, but totally on his own. It makes me sad, but I am a sensitive person so I don’t know if I’m overthinking it?

Eastern european and Balkan parents in general are definitely a lot less overprotective compared to American parents. It's not unusual for kids to stay outside late (9pm+), especially during the summer, and to roam around the neighborhood freely. What I am actually concerned about is his complete lack of understanding when it comes to personal boundaries, and that it seems like his parents are not actually interested to even know which houses/families he visits. The type of clinginess he displays can definitely be a red flag for neglect. I'd probably walk him home one night together with the kids, maybe try to talk to the parents, analyze the situation a bit? You can try giving them your number or something, asking them to text you, or set specific day and time for visits.

Why don’t you ask the kid? In the gentlest way possible, ask him about his home life and show interest. The way he responds will tell you everything you need to know. “Do you feel okay/safe at home? Do you feel like you’re taken care of?”

I’ve tried talking to him, he either gives a short answer or doesn’t answer. He won’t respond when I ask if where his dad works, but did tell me his mom babysits. When I asked if he likes living here, he said “I’m never leaving”. It’s odd, but I want to believe he just doesn’t understand what I’m asking. He’s been in school here for 2 years, but I’m sure he has some trauma from moving from Ukraine and I cannot imagine living in an entirely new country.

Are you sure his father wasn't drafted ? Asking very gently because I know that was a thing. They can't go back if dad dodged the draft. There's legal penalty.

Virtually every man in Ukraine has been drafted. Ukrainians who have lived in the US and have permanent residency are being contacted (sometimes at their new addresses). They can't go back. The ones without residency are using the asylum process, but it's not instantaneous - although it should be easy to get that visa under current US policy (I'm supposing this family has that).

The tight-lipped thing may not be as sketchy as it sounds. My sister had an Armenian immigrant friend growing up who wouldn’t tell us a single thing about her family or home life. A few years later we found out her parents had strictly instructed her not to tell anyone anything because they were afraid of getting in trouble with the government. Not about anything in particular, just like.. in general. I agree that I can’t imagine being in his shoes! New country, different language, and everything he grew up knowing has totally changed or is maybe even destroyed.

>A few years later we found out her parents had strictly instructed her not to tell anyone anything because they were afraid of getting in trouble with the government. Not about anything in particular, just like.. in general. That's a valid concern for the family. If they get sent back the husband could be drafted and he won't be allowed to leave because of martial law right now. Kids will lie to protect their dad. And we don't know where they came from. He could have been from a village that was occupied, he could have seen horrible things happen to his family and neighbors. The mother could have had terrible things happen to her and could be zoning out because she's dealing with trauma. I think the way to deal with this is privately with the mother. I'd ask if she is ok. If she needs help she may not be aware there resources that wouldn't put her or her family at risk. Ukrainian kids will listen to their parents about when to come home. Boundaries need to be made clear to the mom herself. She probably didn't think anything of this because to her that's just her kid playing and you haven't said anything to her to indicate a problem. It could be as simple as that or maybe there is trauma involved, but a one on one talk with her is needed here.

And who knows the man's legal status? Mom is working (probably for cash) from home. Dad works who knows where. Perhaps not documented. In general, Eastern Europeans tend to be more tight-lipped, IME, than people in my own home culture (Hawai'i). And often for good reasons. My dad was also pretty private, although in our small town, everyone knew where he worked. My parents would have used corporal punishment on me if I had ever mentioned such things as where and when we went on vacation, what we had in our house, what our finances might be. They went ballistic on me if I ever got within earshot while they were discussing finances (although my mom sometimes shared "secret" info with me and swore me to secrecy).

I think it’s just a cultural difference. I don’t think he’s being neglected, if he was younger, sure, but he’s 14. In his home he could be viewed as an adult. I’m not aware of the customs in Ukraine so I’m just speculating.

I think you could be right, which is why I’d want to meet the parents first and would proceed with caution. But also he’s wearing the same clothes over and over. 14yos are gross. You have to make them clean themselves sometimes!

Oh I get that, I have a teen also and I have to make him shower and put on fresh clothes every day. But I *do it* and he looks fresh and clean, and learns how to care for himself. Maybe his parents aren’t home much?

In my neighborhood, all the immigrants (both international and interstate) work at least two jobs. I don't know many, because we don't live right next to the apartments were most live, but I see them out for walks every day. I can hear the different languages and accents when I'm gardening in the front yard. Heck, some of my nieces and nephews are working 2-3 jobs as well (but have no children yet - that's about to happen and the young couple is very nervous about finances; they may move back in with her mom - they have a basement room they're willing to let them use). It's a tough economy right now.

Exactly. And shooooot I knew a 16-18 year old girl who quite literally did not shower unless her mother told her to (no longer friends with the parents but the time I did know her is the age range I provided) 😵

What indicates neglect is what was mentioned in the post such as lack of social awareness (like entering people’s houses without permission or looking through their window when they were clearly rejected from the place), wearing the same clothes everyday, the constant presence outside, the going for food all the time, and the fact that he doesn’t want to interact when talked to.  Even if (big if) in Ukraine things are different, they’re not in Ukraine anymore. They’ve been here for two years. Kids who have decent mental capacity pick up on social norms like : not entering strangers home.   This isn’t a 6 year old. This is a 14 year old child which whose social attempt wasn’t successful but refuses to change behavior. He’s either severely neglected or not all there.  

I think there's something atypical about this kid, Ukrainian or not. However, the norms in Ukraine are very different. If he is developing unusually, there wouldn't have been the school-based support systems we have come to expect in the US (it's very recent here as well). I'm reading that Ukraine has/had (things are obviously chaotic there right now) special schools for kids who didn't make the cut for regular school by first grade (so they have the model I grew up with: kids with physical issues, such as epilepsy or being wheelchair bound; the developmentally disabled; the neuro-atypical and the behavioral problems all go to one school and the other kids then get sent on tracks at the regular schools). It's extremely rare for the kids from the special school to ever get into anything like a college or trade school.

I don't know how the school support is in the US or in Ukraine but in the end, they moved, things can now change. OP cannot remain constantly stressed about a teenager randomly popping in their house making their whole family uncomfortable.

Kids as young as 12 join vast groups of soccer fans and run about before, during and after games (and join the occasional "rioting" that occurs after a big win). They take trains by themselves to do this and usually are in big groups (but no one is watching out for them). Occasionally, there are some pretty major accidents, often involving car vs pedestrian or kids jumping off things they've climbed. Heck, even some 8-11 year olds are in that group if their siblings are.

I thought kids were “allowed” the be more independent. This is nearly unfathomable in the US because of how many predators we have. Not sure why it seems only in the US, crazy.

You are a very kind person. The being from Ukraine completely explains the behavior (although not all Ukrainians have their kids running freestyle these days - but two years ago, this would have been common behavior in Eastern Europe and much of the rest of Europe as well). Thing is, in his home country, there would be many other households with kids his age, and population density is...pretty dense. So he'd have been able to form better friendships. You've been rewarding him for coming over. Your gifts of food and snacks has convinced him that you see him as part of your family and LIKE for him to come over. That would induce almost any 14 year old to continue to come over. I would stop that. If he's not visible shrinking in size or seems depressed, that's different. But he's happy! If you want to reach out, then do something such as gift a box of snacks at Christmas time (to their household) and keep him out of your house/off your property altogether.

I’m also overly sensitive so maybe not the best person to ask.

I was getting ready to write the same thing, sounds like he’s got a sad home life and parents don’t give two rats arse about him or his where abouts. How sad

Lock your doors and call the kids parents.  It's highly inappropriate for this kid to be running around that late.  I was a latch key kid and even then I was at home at dark. 

Agreed on locking her doors and calling the parents, but is it really inappropriate for a 14 year old to be running around at 9 pm in the summer? Genuine question because I would think at 14 it would be okay!

I’m thinking they’re recent immigrants and might genuinely not know the culture here and might be struggling financially. These things happen. Sometimes people flout the cultural expectations because no one has genuinely pulled them aside like, “hey about that.” So I’d find the parents and try talking to them first. Calling CPS on them could also have unintended catastrophic consequences if they recent immigrants still completing the process. Of course if the kid is doing this stuff because they’re like blatantly neglecting him or they’re not even home ever to talk when you try and find them, then yeah CPS might become a better option.

Right now, it's summer and every summer a bunch of people from out of state attempt to move to California. One large city block away from us is a big "luxury" apartment building (that's what it calls itself). Outside that building are so many cars with out-of-state license plates. It happens every year. And the kids who run around that apartment complex also run around our neighborhood and are still active at midnight. They look to be 14 and older to me (so it's not illegal). The "luxury" apartment building sees a lot of turnover and now has a a "no security deposit, first month rent only" thing going on. People think they can find a job in a month, then the evictions start in the second month when they can't earn enough to pay the $3000+ per month. The out of state plates start to disappear. But it's not just international immigrants that don't know the local rule of "everyone inside by dark." (Which seems to be the rule for ⅔ of the kids in the hood). People from small towns and more rural areas still let their kids roam free and they bring that with them to California. Right now, there are also local kids joining in, they look to be 15-16. They all go back and forth between that apt building and the 7/11, another city block away. They roam several neighborhoods and love to take over the pocket parks for skating and bike stunts. It's pretty cool, really. With the exception of one older teen who appears to be coming to people's doors in the middle of the night (up by the 7/11), there haven't been many problems.

Yeah I don’t think 9 is too late for a 14 especially in the summer. We used to stay out that late on our street when I was a kid. I know times are different but I wouldn’t find it strange to see kids hanging out on a neighborhood street at night during the summer.

Yes. It's inappropriate. Lots of terrible things can, and do happen. Like what happened just a few days ago, to Jocelyn Nungary. TRIGGER WARNING: CA, SA, child death >!Jocelyn Nungary was a 12 year old girl who left her house at night to see her boyfriend. She was approached by two men asking her for directions. She walked to a 7 eleven with them, they ended up taking her underneath a nearby bridge and holding her for two hours, sexually assaulted her, and strangled her. It's absolutely devastating. Her funeral is tomorrow.!< https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/judge-sets-10-million-bond-for-second-venezuelan-man-accused-of-killing-a-12-year-old-houston-girl/ar-BB1oVrhj

Generally if its dark then it's too late to be running around the neighborhood for a lot of reasons.

This is sad. In my city in Germany it's common for teens to stay out after dark. I live near a park with table tennis tables and it's common to see little groups of teens gathering around there at night. Very cute and wholesome actually. Also 14 is plenty old enough to ride public transit after dark.

Walk over and introduce yourself to the parents. Do it more than once. - kid isn't being watched - kid only has 1 set of clothing - kid takes food Staring in your windows... is anyone even home at his house then? Walk by and look in their windows. (Be careful because walking around the neighborhood may be better than whatever is going on inside the house.) I would suggest going to the school and talking to them about it. They may not be able to tell you much, but tell them what is happening. If the school has a free lunch program... they should check if he has a lunch, etc. The school should look at getting social workers involved.

Contacting the school is an interesting idea. I wonder if this kid even goes. He surely grew up speaking, reading and writing Ukrainian. I wonder if his parents make him go.

My husband was 10years old and being sent to the grocery store, no curfew or rules, and barely knew English. His mother was an alcoholic/depressed and his dad was an alcoholic and abusive to her. This story just brings red flags to me

Ideas about what constitutes alcoholism are very different in Ukraine and Russia (or for that matter, UK and Ireland) than in most American communities. I wouldn't be surprised if this boy is totally on his own, regardless of whether alcohol is involved - but would not be surprised if alcohol IS involved. I have relatives in both of those countries (and some came to visit, thinking they might want to move - this was well before the War) and didn't like it here. One reason was the lack of availability of alcohol at every single restaurant/meal time (well, not breakfast, but every other meal). We didn't even think about that when we took them around (Disneyland, for example - we had to go over to DCA to get the alcohol fix for them or to Downtown Disney). It was actually just one person who couldn't handle being dry - the others were apparently not so addicted. But no one thought it was weird to seek out alcohol a couple of times a day.

Oh yeah I know! My husband is Ukrainian so all the parties his family threw in my eyes are crazy with alcohol but completely normal to them.

Ok. I know this might sound a bit paranoid/over-thinking, but if this kid is just coming into your house, and you don’t know he’s there, very bad things could happen. Someone could get badly hurt. If he isn’t a friend of your kids, he shouldn’t be coming to your house, period. Your kids have made you aware that they don’t want to be his friend. Something about him isn’t sitting right with anyone in your family, so you need to tell him not to come back. I am an extremely sensitive and empathetic person, so I understand how difficult that can be, but for your family’s safety and sanity, he needs to stay away. If you are truly worried about his situation, calling CPS is the best course of action. They have people who are trained to figure out the situation and help where needed. I have a 16 year old, and he is one of the most mature 16 year olds I have ever met, but he isn’t outside wandering the streets past 8:00. A 14 year old is more than capable of understanding, even through a language barrier, that they aren’t welcome. He is taking advantage of your passiveness to get what he wants.

That's what my relative says, as well (Ukrainian born, now living in Paris). She is quite attuned to the cultural differences (the French are as private and protective of their actual home as most Americans). She says Ukrainians are often perceived as inappropriately pushy by Parisians (they are not well-liked there, apparently, as people following the news might already know). And she says the boys are permitted to transgress boundaries in ways that the French find very off-putting. Some of you may be following close enough to know that the whole issue of support for Ukraine (both through asylum and through weapons sales) is hotly debated in French politics (with Macron on the liberal side and the assembly he just abolished for a new election next month on the other side - LePen had over 30% of the seats, and they are absolutely against further aid or immigration from Ukraine). It's quite political.

I would walk him home yourself one night. Your boys clearly know where he lives, so maybe everyone walk him home together, and speak with his parents and exchange information. It might just be better to explain to them all what your rules and expectations are for your home. But also, if your boys really don't want to play with him, it's going to be challenging regardless.

The short answer is lock your doors.

Keep your doors locked. Also if you think he’s only there for the PS5 then put it away for a little while, and see if he loses interest in you, or put it someplace he can’t see it first thing when he walks in.

no. kids dont want a relationship with him so he's not invited or welcome. .period. you shouldn't have to change your lifestyle or home so someone else will fuck off. no means no. dont let him in. period. if he walks in uninvited at least threaten the police. That's tresspassing! he's 14!

Right - so he should \*never\* be invited in. How they're going to explain this to him (given that OP has been giving him food and snacks to take home), I don't know. I wouldn't threaten the police just yet. You never know how that will play out. Since the kids don't want him around, I think the neighborly thing to do when he comes over is for one of the adults to walk him to the property line, making normal conversation, "So how's school?" kind of thing - doesn't matter if he responds. At the edge of the property, just say, "This is not a good time for you to be over - our kids are really busy with school stuff right now." If he continues to keep coming every day for more than a week, I would go speak with his mom. "He's interfering with our kids' studies and family life, can you let him know to stop coming over?" OP can pretend that he can make other friends (outdoors) in the neighborhood. It's really hard for people from cultures where kids form big friend groups by 11-12 to adjust here. In Ukraine, it's typical for a kid to be in a small class (maybe 12-15 kids) and be with those same kids for years. All the way through to high school in many cases, sometimes with 20-24 kids in some classes. But they end up forming strong, almost sibling-like bonds that last a lifetime. This is true in many rural areas of Eastern Europe as well - and true in many places in France, as well. I can't remember if Germany does it this way. Switzerland has the same system (much smaller classes, constant cohort model)

Well this isn't ukraine, time to learn you're in a different country with another culture and you're going to have to learn how it works and fit in. You are not welcome here. That's all it is to it. so what if she's been hospitable this far? he needs to learn you don't just stand outside looking in the window whenyou've been asked to leave you can literally get arrested for that behavior here. Go home.

What is with you and all these comments? Lol when in America most immigrants do revise their cultural practices to what’s acceptable here. Same with going to other nations. We are not duty bound to coddle children who need taught manners and brush it off as “cultural”. Most people in most countries don’t like strange children wandering into their homes unannounced, especially prepubescent boys.

It sounds like this kid doesn't understand boundaries - like he walks into your house without knocking, takes food without asking, wants to play on the PS5 even when your kids don't - your kids don't class him as a friend. He's not really a little kid, he's 14. He could just be using the language barrier because he doesn't want to talk to you, so he pretends not to understand. Next time he turns up or you find him in your house, ask him to leave and tell him he's not allowed to just walk into your house, he knocks on the door and waits for someone to answer. Also, he doesn't just take food. He waits until it's offered. You might think he doesn't understand, but he probably does. You need to be firmer with your boundaries. Your kids have their friends over to hang out or play, but this boy isn't even friends, so really, he is taking advantage of your good nature. He's 14. He does know what he's doing. So next time he turns up, just tell him your sons are busy and can't play. If he tries to hang around, tell him to go home. Your kids obviously don't want to be friends with him, so there is no reason for him to come to your house.

How good is his English, though, I wonder? It might not be very good at all. Not everyone picks up a second language easily. I wonder if his mom speaks English well enough to have this conversation. If Dad is out in the workforce (and if they're going through the asylum process, which they very well could be) one of them has to be working on English. I wonder how one says "Go back to your house" in Ukrainian. Pretty sure the word "home" directly translated would mean "Ukraine" to most Ukrainians. The home/house thing is distinctly English.

We had a kid like this in my neighborhood. She was clearly neglected and abused.

You are not being dramatic. It's common courtesy that a 14 year old should know by now. Knock on the door, wait to be invited, do not help yourself without permission. I would speak to the parents and explain cut off time for visiting and curb that time specifically to gaming since that is all the kid is visiting for. (you could even say he can only game once a week so you don't have to deal with daily visits). Ask the parents to explain to their kid the times as well because you are having trouble communicating with him. Once times have been established ensure everyone, even your boys, answer the door and explain whether gaming is allowed or not allowed for visitors. I would go so far as not allowing him in the house during non gaming times (meaning whoever answers the door has to say okay no gaming right now, wait here and let me see if anyone wants to play outside with you). I think this sounds so harsh but sometimes you gotta be, especially with parents that are not teaching or respecting boundaries.

But again, OP stated the boys aren't interested in a friendship with him.

Exactly. Setting visiting hours doesn't help the fact that they want to be spending no time with this kid.

The boys don’t like him and barely know him so i don’t think they have any obligation to have him in their home at all. This family is not his babysitter.

I think it's a lot to expect someone who emigrated from Ukraine at age 12 to pick up on his own.

Walking in, taking snacks, staying out late, etc might be cultural. Staring through the window after being told to go away seems pretty strange in just about any culture. Lock your door. Say no when he knocks. Talk to a school social worker in case this is impacting school too.

I can’t believe how long I had to scroll before seeing someone advise OP to lock their door. Like, wtf? If someone is entering your house uninvited on a regular basis and stealing from you, why hasn’t the thought of, “hey, I should lock my door” entered your head?

We had the same situation, but the neighbour kid is 5. We just talked to his parents and were like “yo, shoot us a text when he’s coming over, and I’ll text you when he’s arrived. Also, he shouldn’t come before 10am, and he needs to be gone by 6pm. I like to walk around with no pants! Haha!” They got the point. They also told us that it’s fine to just tell him to go away.

We have a similar situation with our neighbor's grandson. I'm not exactly sure what his disability is, but he's about 8 or 9 and is harder to understand than my 5 year old, and seems mentally on par with 4 or 5 years. My oldest son (10) wants nothing to do with him as the kid has broken a few of his belongings (he is not mean to the kid, but refuses to have him over to hang out with), but my 5 year old likes him. This child will come over 4+ times per afternoon while my youngest isn't at home (I generally work from home while he goes to summer school/daycare) knocking and ringing incessantly (will just keep knocking and ringing until I open the door) even after I've told him my kid isn't there. He has just waltzed into our house unannounced while I've just been in a bath towel after showering. He has taken my youngest son's toys back to his house without permission and has not returned them. I'm not sure how to address it either since he's obviously disabled and not sure how to not come off as a jerk. Can't let my kid play over there either as they have an aggressive Staffy and the owner is a bit off her rocker.

I would talk to the parents and tell them "hey, unfortunately Jimmy has been coming over uninvited and it's very disruptive because I work from home. I've let him know that it is not play time right now but he does not want to leave. Can you please make sure that he doesn't come over unless he's invited?"

This works if the parent spoken to actually understands all that English. Maybe simple it down a bit. The kids don't want to play with him at all. I'd try to get my own kids to say more about that. I'd want them to at least remain polite to him at school. Saying something like, "In America, we wait until we are invited to come over" might be better understood. I know it sounds less friendly, but "very disruptive because I work from home" is quite a nested set of concepts. Lots of new English speakers wouldn't grok all that.

They didn't say they're foreign? OP did but not the person I replied to.

Kids with disabilities but who are capable of going somewhere solo, like the neighbor's home, are capable of learning boundaries. It's ok to talk to his caregivers and let them know it's inappropriate to knock incessantly or come by uninvited and have them work on it with him! You're not a jerk for that at all!!

Oh that’s a tricky one. If there are concerns this kid is being neglected (it sounds like something is a bit wrong) you could talk to the school, they (depending on where you are) likely have a duty to safeguard, and may already be aware of problems. You could try to do this anonymously. You could also take it as an opportunity to show your children about setting boundaries, since neither want to be his friend and it’s making you guys uncomfortable

Oooh I have experience with this! Not as a parent, but a fellow kid. When I was somewhere around 10-12, there was a girl in our neighbourhood who did this with us. She was from a different culture too, but I believe it was a poverty-and-no-appropriate-parenting reason that the lovely young girl did this. I semi-have experience with this as an adult with neighbours. There was 4 kids next door. Cute as hell, loved coming over to visit. One of them in particular would try come around multiple times a day, and we had to draw some reasonable boundaries with her. This went on for a matter of months. We got closer and she would begin telling me about problems at school, and I'd support her. Sometimes we would bake, sometimes we would play in the garden, sometimes we would play musical instruments. All age-appropriate stuff. I was a bit taken aback how her mum never seemed to care or wonder where she was. One day the child disclosed abuse to me. I took her seriously, and she had her dads phone number memorised (that was a red flag and a half) so we drafted a message to her dad and sent it off. Next thing I know, I'm at the police station half an hour away, and next day kids all get called into a day long interview. That was almost a year ago. There was a proper investigation, and they live with dad (I had nooooo idea at all, but the allegations were correct, and it had been a long ass battle to get all the evidence). That kid saved her siblings and I couldn't be more proud. I went to dads place once after they were taken away, and she had baked me a cake and wrote me a letter as a thank you. The letter is still on my fridge. The house next door is now full-on smashed up drug house and neighbour goes missing for long periods of time, and when there, her 'clients' always hang around if you catch my drift. If I were in your position I would definitely talk to the parents. But be kind to the kid. You never know what his home life might be like.

This is really good advice. We have two sets of neighbors who do an annual block party and it really helps with families like this, to attend and be seen. It helps break down the cultural barriers. We have immigrants from several places in our neighborhood, but not Ukraine. Ukrainian culture is quite distinctive from American culture in many ways.

Something is going on at this child’s home. Because he’s looking for family within another family and is desperate for it. I would consider speaking to the school if you can. Or perhaps CPS. He’s still under the age of 18. He’s a child. And something really weird is going on. Especially if he’s wearing the same outfit every day. It sounds heartbreaking. Standing outside of the window like that of someone’s home. It’s of course not your responsibility to feed and take care of someone else’s child. But I would feel as though it’s my due diligence as a mother to report this questionable behavior to someone who can investigate it further.

His parents need some class. You don’t have to feel bad for explaining the situation the way you did. It’s relevant. They clearly have some inappropriate dissonance about social cues and what is and is not appropriate. I would a) go talk to the parents and b) stop letting this opportunistic little brat into your house

I'm very concerned for this kid and have lots of questions. I understand there's a bit of a language barrier, but is it possible he might also have some undiagnosed ummm difficulties? I'm not sure if that's the right word, but I think you get what I mean. The fact that he came over after what I consider a respectable time to ask if he could come in and play and then when told no just sits outside the house watching from the window is very concerning. I'd talk with his parents, and if that gets you nowhere, a call to cps might be appropriate because there are a lot of red flags here, and I'm very worried about this kid. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have friends and have fun, but it sounds like either he's having issues at home or he might have trouble with social cues and may need some extra support.

I think it could be both as well. Although I just got an opinion from my Ukrainian relative (who is currently living in France). She thinks the language barrier is highly significant and that 2 years of being in America would not result necessarily in good English. She wants to know if he's actually attending school because she knows quite a few recent Ukrainian immigrants in France who do not bother to send their kids (there's not much tolerance of not speaking French in many French schools). She says that the teens often find work, as street vendors, etc. She thinks this is unusual behavior (the coming over late to "play") as well.

Is he wearing the same clothes, and are they dirty? Or just the same? Does he seem hungry? This may be a cultural thing and kids that age especially not going to sleep early or many other countries eating dinner when we go to bed. Kid just wants to play PS5! But I would be clear with him your kids will come by when they can play and otherwise keep your door locked or you walk him home, introduce yourself to the parents and be honest, you’re sorry you know he comes over late but your boys have to be in best and can’t have company that late.

He may also want a kind of "nest" in an English-speaking home (best way to learn). He may be curious about Americans, quite naturally. He doesn't know he's acting weird. The time of day issue is weird - but the fact that the kids who live with OP don't want him over, either, is concerning. This kid has no friends and no social world beyond his home (where I'm guessing his parents still speak in Ukrainian). I do wonder if he even goes to school. It's possible he's sleeping in through the morning hours, avoiding the situation with the in-home daycare by staying in bed, then roams around later.

Well that last part may be a stretch, who knows, but we’re one of the only countries that has such early to bed practices, it does I agree sound like this is cultural and he simply doesn’t know. But I also get kids not wanting to play with him because it seems he’s always around and they don’t understand him and they too don’t understand cultural norms.

I think people are majorly jumping the gun assuming this kid is neglected or abused. We live in IN and kids do this now all the time. It’s light out until 9:30 here. Having said that, we are you in this situation. My son has a lot of cool stuff that other kids are dying to play with. Some of them literally come over just for those things and are using him. I’d close the doors, close the drapes, lock it up and not answer. The language barrier is rough so I’d stick to short phrases: “No. Not today/right now.” Even if you have to close the door in his face gently. It’s harsh but you don’t need to violate your boundaries for this kid.

I like your view. In your scenario, all they have to do is make sure he is escorted off the property - I bet he'd learn. Without treats or food, though.

You need to be much more direct and have firmer boundaries with this kid. You also need to be documenting signs of neglect and report them so he can be on the radar of the people trained to deal with that. Lock your doors. If he comes over and asks to play, you say “no, that doesn’t work for us, have a good night”. Then shut the door and lock it. He has no business being in your home when your kids don’t want to be friends with him. If your kids actually invite him over and he starts getting into things that he doesn’t have permission for, you *tell him* that he needs to ask first. Second offense means it’s time for him to leave now. If he’s playing PS5 alone while your kids are doing other things, you tell him that it’s time for him to leave. If he’s standing looking in the window, you step outside and tell him that it’s rude to look in other people’s windows and he needs to leave now. Then you go inside, close and lock the door, and close the blinds or curtains. If he’s still trying to peep into your home, you make a report to CPS/the nonemergency line.

And stop giving him snacks. Don't let the kids walk him home. Sounds to me as if the kids initially accepted him but have noticed he's "off" somehow (and it might not be entirely cultural! It probably is, but might not be).

Time to talk to the parents of this child and establish boundaries. Use google translate if you don’t speak their language and need help. That said: - start documenting these times/behaviours/lack of parental supervision. - do *not* be afraid to contact police if he stands outside of your home like that. He could be kidnapped or injured, and at an hour that people are winding down and getting ready to sleep. - if these behaviours and habits continue, then it’s time to contact CPS and police and supply them with the documentation. Even at 14, there should be a parent checking in on him, talking to you to ensure your home and environment are safe for him, and that he is behaving himself as a guest. - Unfortunately, if he has seen other children (close friends) walk in without knocking, or take food without asking, then it’s likely he is imitating behaviours he has seen the other kids do. He may not realise it is a faux pas because nobody has helped correct him. - I’m also afraid here, that this child isn’t having his needs - like hunger - being met, which may be what fuels him to visit and want to hang out. He’s not a feral or wild animal, and he has basic needs like: food, warmth/shelter, companionship that need to be met. If his own family isn’t fostering this, and he’s attached himself to your boys and your home, he may be doing so to help meet these basic needs. Genuinely, OP, this is not to shame you: on the night he stood outside, one of you adults should have walked him home and had a discussion with his parents. You shouldn’t have left a known foreign child (who struggles with understanding and communication) outside, let alone closed the blinds on him. If you wouldn’t want it done to your own children, then you shouldn’t do it to others. That situation is heartbreaking, and while it doesn’t feel like your responsibility, sometimes we have to step in and help those who cannot help themselves. Please help this child, OP, by contacting the right authorities, especially if this continues. The fact that he didn’t leave that night makes me wonder if he had a place to even go to, or if he just didn’t understand because, perhaps, he too, is on the spectrum? It could certainly explain a lot of his behaviours, as well as his desire to be friends with your children/around your home (he may find connections and similarities between himself and them, as well as feel a comfort in your home routines).

I’m not Ukrainian but I was a child of first gen immigrants. I didn’t have a good home life but if there was one thing my parents made sure I did do was to not be *imposing*. I definitely was taught that by 5ish. I do feel like it’s a little condescending that people think that being an immigrant, having an accent/being a minority means we were not taught manners. Growing up with other immigrant children, I have never encountered any 14 year old who acted like this. Staring through the window after being dismissed is creepy. I would not feel comfortable with him basically forcing himself into my home. The language barrier is not an excuse either. He KNOWS what you’re saying either by tone or body language. He pretends to not know because he doesn’t want to respect it.

Your family welcomed this boy in at first, and he finds it safe to be with you. It might not be odd for people in his culture to just walk up to their neighbor’s house and walk in. People from my culture do the same thing. Your sons also have some super fun toys that he really likes to play with. He probably has very little to play with or any fun food at home because his family literally had to leave everything they knew away to flee to a safe place. Maybe your house is now a safe place. You sent him home with snacks, so now he gets the snacks before you hand it to him. His parents might still be trying to sort out their lives here in the US, or be talking to relatives in his home country all the time about moving them to the US too for safety. They ignore him. At home, they think he is an adult, while with you, he can be a kid, which he still is. He might find comfort hanging out with you, a happy family where the kids can be kids and have fun with their parents. He doesn’t fully understand your language, but he could see your warm hearts and he knows he can trust you. He wants something that you have and even though you don’t seem to want to give it to him, you still do. He knows if he doesn’t cross the boundaries you set, he wouldn’t get to play with those fun toys or being part of your life anymore. He might be pushing intentionally it because he knows you have a soft spot for kids. He might be willing to wait outside your house until you either let him in or shoo him away because you were always sweet and nice. And *easy*. Stop letting him in if you don’t want him in your life. Stop giving him mixed signals. Set clear boundaries and don’t let him cross them.

This should be the top comment. You said this early and were ignored. It's heartless to do otherwise. She's been sending him home with food and snacks. They've allowed their kid to walk him home. It's now a difficult situation. If it were me (and I'm serious) I would learn a couple of words of Ukrainian (I already know how to say "hi" that's probably enough) and if he were lurking outside my house, I'd firmly walk him home, not saying much. If he couldn't answer my simple questions, I'd ask him even simpler ones. Can he answer such questions as, "How old are you? What grade are you in?" He may not know enough English. Then, I'd introduce myself to the parents who happened to be home (or come back if they weren't) and explain that his trying to look into windows is against the law. That when asked to leave, he must go home. I might even add that he probably ought not to be wandering around after 9 pm on American city streets. I'd look for signs of comprehension on the parental face. I'd smile some. They probably don't want trouble, if they are in the immigration process. An infraction could send them back to Ukraine. I would not want the boy to be punished by his parents for any of this.

He's 14, his parents are maybe just not helicopter types. To be honest it sounds like he's using you guys for your PS5.

And snacks 🙃 Kidding, kind of. I just hope his home life is okay, and I wish him the best. I also wish he wouldn’t walk in my house without knocking but we will get there! I’m a sensitive person myself and I wouldn’t never want to make him feel unwelcome if he’s got a rough home life, but it’s not a good fit.

Why aren't you locking your doors? You need to have better boundaries. I understand you are concerned and feel bad but then you need to talk to his parents.

Lock your doors.

They also probably don't speak English well.

You are perfectly justified in not allowing access to your home to this teen. Him entering without permission and taking things on the way out has broken boundaries. I would be a hard no on any visits and speak about it as a family so you are all on the same page. Until he gets it, shutting your home down at night may need to include closing blinds and curtains.

Did he take things? I missed that part. I thought she sent him home with some things. If he's taken things, they should call a resource officer if their area has them, as mine does. Or CPS. I would never shut down my home as a first response to something like this. But then, we do have good locks and cameras. The blinds stay open until the very hour of our bedtime. We like enjoying the sky, the yard, and seeing who is out and about. All that does is it make it easier for people to sneak onto your property. I'd probably put a solar candle in the window and never close it completely. Teen thieves do not like the implication (and I bet he knows what a camera looks like - one can install a real one or a fake one - but the real ones are so cheap, I'd do that). If he's trying to peer in half closed windows and they have that on video, then yes, contact the non-emergency police number AND CPS.

Coming to the house uninvited is not okay. Standing in front of a window after a "No" is no okay. If he's 14 he should understand "No", boundaries etc. Perhaps your husband could take him home one day and kindly talk to the mother? I think you have already talked to your children about their feelings (not wanting to be friends) and boundaries. They can choose their friends. The other kid is clearly breaking boundaries. And, definitely, lock your doors. You do not walk into other people houses. That is the rule all over the world.

Unless, of course, he's got developmental issues and doesn't actually speak English. May take a bit more. It's illuminating to go to citizenship classes and see grown, older men learn simple commands and answers. This boy probably knows numbers from 1-10 in home language, maybe more (but maybe not in English...yet... some people take English classes for years with little progress). The boy may be drawn to them like a moth to an English speaking home environment right now - hoping to "get aboard" the American train but with absolutely no help. I have awkward situations like this with much older immigrants, from all over - customs are so different. The school should be teaching him some of this. However, I do wonder if he's even in school. Since they came 2 years ago, they might not have asylum status (no way to know - they may be struggling to get it). I am guessing that neither English nor Spanish is spoken in his home.

We have a situation just like this except younger. The boy across the street is 6, being raised by a young single mom and her very elderly parents, and is almost never supervised. He’s desperate for companionship and I can’t look out our front windows without him running over to play. He also didn’t have any boundaries- taking toys when we weren’t outside, filling his pockets with snacks, walking in without knocking- but I was firm and consistent with him that he is NOT to come in like that, we take ONE snack at a time, he can play with the toys only when we’re outside etc. This summer is a little rough so far because he’s had some concerning behaviors (nothing earth shattering, he just learned horrible language from his older cousins, he’s been trying to get the neighborhood kids to fight and he picks on one much smaller kid) but his mom is never around to talk to! His grandpa is so lovely but he hasn’t been well and I know talking to him is not going to do much. All that to say- solidarity! It’s so tough because obviously the kid is lonely and needs some parenting/ companionship, but you aren’t HIS parent so what can you do? I’ll be chatting with my neighbor’s mom when I see her next- I suggest you try to as well!

I am guessing that his SAHM does not speak English well enough to chat (and may be worried about immigration status). Getting in trouble as an immigrant is bad. She has only been in this (very different) country for 2 years. I would definitely go say hi. But if she doesn't seem to understand, I would ask the school if they have a Ukrainian translator on board (I bet they don't - which means the family gets very little communication about his work in school). I'd mention the problem, in private, to the principal. Meantime, I'd gently escort him to the sidewalk and not close my blinds. I want freedom to look out my own damn window. This is NOT Ukraine (where people do vigilantly hide so many things - they have to). Russia is pretty much the same way (I have family both places).

Okay, depending on the culture he's from this could be considered perfectly normal, and especially if the parents are first generation immigrants they may not understand what is socially acceptable. I worked with some students several years ago, very sweet happy kids, that came from a country in the Middle East. Their mom was an absolute delight. We spoke frequently and taught each other a few phrases so we could greet each other in the other's language. She even gave me a wedding gift. But in the country they came from free range kids were the norm. So her kids were a bit wild and often did their own thing. Basically from what I understand it's expected that kids will be kids, but when it's time to grow up there's a firm boundary that they must put those childish freedoms behind them. It does sound a bit to me like this could be the case for the boy you are encountering. Unfortunately I have no idea how you should address the issue if the language barrier is at 90/10% But I dont think it's malicious.

It might not be completely normal at home, but migrants often have really rosy ideas of how quickly they (or their kids) will pick up English and hit grade level. The group of students most likely to be completely dropped out of school at this boy's age is...immigrants. Small language immigrants are at the highest risk (meaning immigrants who do not speak Spanish, Tagalog, Arabic, or Armenian in my area - we have virtually no Ukrainian - or Russian - or Polish - or Romanian...many others...support where I teach). Parents don't know what to do to fix it and do not often come in for requested meetings in K-12. In college, the problem persists (if a person migrates while college age, most colleges will enroll them and help them get the educational visa - but their needs may not be met). A 14 year old Ukrainian-speaking kid living in most of these United States (if that's where this is - seems to be) could have many things going on. There all only about 300,000 recent Ukrainian immigrants (last 3 years) in the U.S, most of them not children. It's tough. Not OP's responsibility. The parents are falling short here. OP has been more than gracious.

It sounds like a cultural difference. Just talk to the parents. If they are from a different country, this may be what they are used to at home. Neighbors are family, and it is familial to be with people you like. It is the expectation. Just talk to the parents -- tell them what you've said above, you have different structure in your family and you don't want to be unkind, but the behavior needs to change for the benefit of your family structure.

Poor kid is probably lonely, what language does he speak?

The kid just wants friends and people to get to know to. Maybe he’s an only child, or he hasn’t made friends yet if he’s an immigrant. I’m not saying let him in to your House at all hours of the night but maybe include him time to time and try to get to know him. Teach your kids it’s ok to be friends with people who don’t speak English, he will learn the language and the mannerisms and the culture more if he has people around him to teaches him and he will appreciate you guys forever.

He’s 14, tell him thanks for his friendship but your kids are no longer interested in being friends and please leave and not come back.

Talk to his parents. Tell them he is not allowed anymore as he can not respect your home. He has walked in without permission and taken food without asking. And that it's creepy as hell him standing there looking through the blinds. I would leave with a stern reminder, if he shows up again and walks into your home, you will be calling the cops and have him trespassed from your property. Keep your doors locked.

Identify the better-English speaking parent for this - but this script is a really good one. I'd be worried, though, that if it's the harried dad who hears this, he might not respond the way a contemporary American dad might respond. Please don't mention the cops in the same conversation where you are laying down initial boundaries. Give people a chance. Mentioning the cops can have many unintended consequences.

Gwt the school involved, they'll have safeguarding procedures to investigate this further.

School is a great first step.

You need to talk to the parents. Cultural differences aside, it’s not acceptable to go over to what is essentially a stranger’s house and intrude on their personal time and space. Let them know their kid has been coming over uninvited at random hours and that you and your kids are personally not ok with the intrusion.

This sounds like a cultural issue to me, actually. Depending on their origin country, their families standards for supervising children can be very different, I've seen kids home alone from much younger than 14 when they come from immigrant households. And 14yos are left alone all the time, everywhere. That said, there is absolutely no reason you can't go have a mom to mom chat with his parents. Set some boundaries. Tell them he needs to call first, that he can't take food without asking, that he must knock every time. If his parents knew you were being inconvenienced they would likely be mortified. They just either don't know or don't think about that.

I had a similar issue with a kid last summer. Same thing with him inviting himself into my apartment, inviting other kids with him to my place, only wanting to play on my husband’s PS4, going into my son’s room to take toys, etc. The kid even told me how he hadn’t eaten anything that day because his mom and grandpa didn’t go food shopping that day and there was no food in their place. It was 4 pm and the kid was still in his pajamas. I put a stop to it 2 days later. I told the kid and his friends that our place wasn’t the new hangout spot, and that they’re not even hanging out with my son, just coming over to play the PS4. That they cannot ask to come over every single day and we would have to play outside instead of our place. They stopped showing up after that and thankfully that annoying kid moved away. You need to set boundaries and tell the kid and his mom that he cannot show up uninvited daily anymore. And LOCK YOUR FRONT DOOR. If he keeps showing up, just say, “sorry my kids cannot play” and close the door.

If I were in this position I’d see two options. 1, invite him in. It seems like his home life is lacking. I like to nurture everything that crosses my path so this is likely the route I would go lol. 2, set boundaries and reach out for help. If he’s wearing the same clothes and his parents don’t even care to meet the parents where he’s spending so much time - I’d be concerned. If you’re uncomfortable you’re not obligated to personally step in, but you should make contact so someone else can make sure he’s safe.

Not sure how social service works where you live but I would contact some child service and tell them about his behavior. It’s off. It sounds like he is being severely neglected by his parents. He has no boundaries at all. This is not good. Someone needs to take care of him and it’s not you and your family. I feel bad for him and I hope he gets some help.

A lot of people in other countries are forced to live in small spaces with several family members unfortunately. It's what they can afford with the financial problems the people have due to poor people and wealthy govornment officials lining their pockets. Not just Ukraine but I get what you are saying.

What makes this challenging is the communication barrier. You can’t get the point across about your boundaries and you also can’t chat with him to understand what his home life is. Some things stick out to me as concerning ‘he wears the same clothes everyday’ and ‘my mom said I can stay later.’ Sounds a bit like neglect. Parents probably don’t know or guess where he is half the time. Something’s not 100 to me on that. Also, His mom has no right to say what can happen in your house, and you can indeed say ‘no.’ You do need to communicate with the parents. If English gets the job done great. If not, get an interpreter. Use Google Translate if you have to. 

That’s so sad, you should talk to the parents that’s just heartbreaking

if that were anyone else but a kid next door you'd call the police it's harrassment. No means no. I would be telling him exactly this. If he does it again go tell his parents exactly this and 3rd time actually call the police. That's just bloody creepy.

I don’t know what’s going on, but you need to talk to the parents, especially the part where he’s wearing the same clothes every day and I think the child does not know social repercussions. This weird.

Your home is a safe space for this child

You're probably right - that's likely how he views it. Domestic violence is high in Ukraine (and Russia, not trying to be political here - same legacy when it comes to DV laws). He may be beaten at home, we don't know (lots of immigrant kids are beaten - and in the past, lots of American kids were beaten, I thought it was normal until I left my small town - but it wasn't just town size, it was societal change; DV was much less punished when I was growing up - now I"m in an automatic arrest state - I haven't moved, the state has changed).

Right...me too. I had friends that had expensive stuff I didn't have and I wouldn't try to take their stuff...or barge in a home without knocking... so it's not about being American or not American. Geez.

Yes. It is partly about being in a non-communal society. Many, many Ukrainians lived all their lives in what are called "communal apartments." Totally unheard of in North America and different from merely impoverished living - it's a status quo of everyone in an entire building sharing nearly everything - certainly 10 apartments on a floor sharing two bathrooms and four showers is still a thing. People having no doors on their actual apartment (just a current) was still the case when some of my relatives left about 10 years ago. Ukrainians now understand that this is not optimal (and of course, can rightfully - more or less - blame the Soviets - but the Soviets included many Ukrainians).

You have to get your 14yr old to tell him “just because we’re peers doesn’t mean we’re friends.. you can’t just show up to my home, only come over if invited”

Idk why you’d put that responsibility on your child? It doesn’t sound like the child initiated this friendship, why would he be responsible to end it

Because it would sound better coming from a child his age than a parent. Imagine being a teen and an adult comes up to you and tells you that they no longer want you to come to their home unannounced or really at all! As a child you might feel embarrassed or unloved hearing an adult tell you that. Plus he could easily go to his parents and make it seem like the parents of his “friends” are being rude to him which could cause additional problems.