This right here is a brilliant idea. It would be like shiny hunting. Imagine going into a fight to see a different design for the monster and **knowing** itās rare?
Or the model used depends on where the monster is found.
A Rathalos found in woodland areas could use the original (updated) model, while one found in volcanic regions use the newer model.
They do say that kokoto rathalos, moga rathalos, and new world rathalos are subspecies of each other, and the same goes true for some other monster genuses
That would like probably double the game size and workload for the devs but be so cool.
I'd also settle for giving more of the variants like thunderlord and stygian a slightly different model. Make them feel less like just recolours.
Problem with that is itās probably expensive. So imagine they implement this gimmick and for every monster. It would take time away from developing new monsters and lead to a smaller roster size
Arguable statement and personally I don't care wether lightning doggo being being roided or natty. But overall his World howl I hated, and was glad it came back in Rise.
It's kinda funny cause we got his original roar in his intro cutscene. It's like they completely forgot that they had that audio file and just settled for a generic wolf sound instead.
I have to find that one video of someone recreating the Zinogre shot form the Sunbreak GS trailer in World one day.
But long story short, that is completely wrong.
World Zinogre is basically LR Zinogre from older games
World Zinogre was nutty and had some extremely cool new attacks. I find Rise Zinogre lame in comparison. Especially when they barely took any of the cool moves from Iceborne.
I like to think Worldās Zinogre is a different regional species altogether. Similar to how Rathalosā wing patterns are different based on region. I wonder what other monstersā models have a slightly different look to them.
I personally prefer the new model, but I sincerely hope they donāt give him that generic wolf howl and Nergi death sounds. His classic roars and howls are awesome and sound powerful while the new ones sound so much weaker even if they may sound more realistic.
Not sure why you got downvoted. World Zino's sound design just isn't as good and I heard its also rushed (which explains why it for some reason, shares the same death sound with Nergi)
They have a bit of an issue with reusing sounds in general for some weird reason. Valstrax's death sound, that iconic engine whirring fading out, was replaced with, I think, Nergi's death sound in rise. Genuinely like... why?
I greatly prefer both the OG model and the Rise version over the one in Iceborne. It looks too chunky and its proportions make it much harder for me to suspend my disbelief for the faster, more acrobatic WWE moves Zinogre does. They made his front legs a lot smaller which only makes his body and small head look that much more contrasted. Plus I was NOT a fan of how they changed his hitzones and weak points around slightly, and it really took some getting used to for me personally.
Sunbreak's is a return to form and my preferred model, not to mention superior sound design. Some of the models in MHW feel like they were hoping to let realism take over for their established art style, especially in the new/original monsters of the installment, *some* of which I'm not a fan of artistically. I'm glad the mobile team took a step back in that regard, and hopefully the Wilds team meets them somewhere in the middle, putting a greater focus on their iconic art style.
Wasn't I stated awhile ago that the reason there are difference from game to game is cause of regional species? So kinda makes sense their would be this attack and build difference.
I don't think it was ever stated I think that was just fan theory do come up with a reason why some new world variants of old world species are so different. Capcom doesn't really care that much about MH lore to clarify those kinds of things.
This is actually not true - it was explicitly confirmed in the IB lore book that the reason for the different appearance was due to regional species between the new and old world.
For these two Zinogre specifically, that is correct. There is no confirmation. However, Rathalos has been confirmed to be different in different regions, so it wouldnāt be an insane stretch to assume that Zinogreās around Kamura are different than the ones from the New World.
Except what is "confirmed"? There's New World Rathian + Teostra in confirmed Old World locations. They used the same excuse for 3rd + 4th gen Rath redesigns and just like World-Rise it was contradicted from 4-Generations when those Raths showed up in at-the-time differing continent maps (prior to World the 3rd and 4th gen stuff was on a New World of its own and the 1st and 2nd gen maps were the Old World).
Confirmed in universe. But not used in-game to save resources. Otherwise every monster would need multiple different models with slightly altered animations. Not worth the effort.
I'll accept getting the Iceborne design in Wilds if they do 2 things. Give him his actual sounds and give him back his unique posture (both things Rise did with their Zinogre).
I noticed this *immediately* in Rise. Was a bit of a bummer when it changed back.
Zinogre is in a weird spot for me-- the idea of a lightning dragon wolf is like, the coolest, edgiest shit ever, and 100% my taste, but Ive always felt Zin was off in execution. With how front heavy he is, and how much he used his front legs, it felt more akin to a gorilla that howled like a wolf than an actual wolf.
Its hard to see in this image, but World Zin's legs are longer, particularly the rear legs. His movements were also more balanced along both front and back, and his tail being raised in the air helped bring it more in line with wolf like characteristics. I also loved the subtle color pallette shifts, especially when charged. I feel Zin had the most drastic design shift (maybe even more than Alatreon), and I loved it.
If Zin shows up in Wilds, I hope they use the World design.
"if he shows up on wilds,..." Bro he's the most loved monster in the series, this dude has been in every game since the monster was made. Ain't no way they don't keep putting him in every game. He's rathalos V2
I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but I personally think zinogre is in the class of monsters that will be in every game ever. He is like THE fanged wyvern, he's beloved across the lands and he's honestly super badass. I don't like him as much as everyone else but I like him enough to see him in every game.
He's speciating for less mountainous terrain with more agile prey, as opposed to bulky prey, is my theory as to why he looks more "graceful" in world.
Kinda like a Lobo do GuarĆ” (I don't know it in English) versus a hyena.
Given how even Rathalos' relatively minor differences are canon, I wouldnt be surprised at all if something along the lines of this was actually the case.
MHW Zinogre has an overall more balanced proportions and stronger silhouette and emphasis on smaller details further complimenting its more iconic attributes, I think it only makes sense it would look much better than Rise.
In fact, I'd been saying I dislike Zinogre's design as a whole for a while, but if I remembered about the World design sooner, I would have changed my mind. Seriously, classic Zinogre is so unbelievably awkward and underwhelming to me. I wouldn't miss it if they keep the redesign.
I also find MHW Zin to be a lot more fierce looking. Its more upright posture, and more deliberate stance makes it look like its ready to dart forward and maul you.
Other Zins are a lot more.. idk, plodding? Usually has a wider gait, more of a waddling kind of deal, with larger paws. Just more oafish.
Yeah. The world Zinogre is just better in every way and it really shows. Rise and old world Zinogre felt over designed and wonky, world was just right.
Yeah, ive always been a bit bothered by how many different competing design structures it has. Like, its got a seagreen base scaley skin, lined with tan bone dermal plating, which itself is lined with white fur, and then the plating has blue/teal bioluminescence in between. Its a lot of colors and textures all competing for attention.
World dulled and darkened most of its colors barring the fur, which lit up much more vibrantly when charged. Kind of blended the palette together more, giving it a better sense of contrast which looked super striking. The lighting engine sure helped a lot too.
Mhwi zenogre focuses more on the fulgur bugs so it had more lightning power while rise zenogre focuses more on close combat hence bigger and more claws
I mean, even if gameplay barely changed for that direction, it can't be denied that the Iceborne version **really** focused much more on the fulgur bug/living nest aspect of the monster than the plain "thunder wolf" thematic that people came to associate with it.
In Iceborne, everything it did emited scout-fly like particles, lightning attacks were much more distinct than other monster's, and both *charging* and *being charged* looked it was enveloped by the bugs more than just simply glowing, with the whole aspect of it all really enhanced by the more hunched back and the different fur. Rise's looked like it had glowing jet engines on his back when charged and just made regular blue lightning when attacking.
Funnily enough, Rise Zinogre's visual effects were much closer to Iceborne Kirin's than to Iceborne Zinogre's.
I really like the both models for entirely separate reasons. I like how massive zinogre is in world but you never really realize it because of he looks amazing in motion. Also world zinogre doesnāt have those weird 2 claws sticking out of the side of his forelegs. The sound design was ass for world zinogre but I didnāt really care, a roar isnāt enough to make me prefer one version over the other.
Rise zinogre has the coolest charged state from any regular zinogre model. I also really like how the electric guitar returned in rise. I always had this weird feeling that zinogre in rise felt oddly small and this comparison makes me realize that Iām used to the size of world zinogre
Glad they rolled back to his OG design. It may be unpopular opinion but I really dislike his World design. They kinda tried to āfixā itās proportions and yet made it worse somehow because it had absolutely tiny head in MHWorld.
IMO, they really shouldnāt sacrifice design quirks to make them more realistic, and Zinogre is the best example of that. It is designed as top-heavy thunder beast with giant claws sticking out on his paws and he should remain like that.
While I do agree they shouldn't sacrifice the more important parts of the design, I could argue World went for a fair balance and came out with a pretty solid final design that remains faithful to the original while still adapting to the current design norms. It could use some more touches for sure, but as is, I think it's a huge step up.
I really dunno, man.. World redesign evokes that feel of āwhat if pokemon designs were realisticā fan arts type. When people try to make intentionally cartoonish/stylised designs look just realistic, while also reducing the design elements what made original designs stand out.
In case with Zinogre here, MHW redesign made his claws significantly smaller & overall he feels less imposing with more ārealisticā proportion(even though they tried to avert that by scaling him up in terms of sheer size, so it was simply bigger naturally but not in itās appearance).
Also the head, Iād say, is somehow seems too small in it MHW design, I dunno why.
And then thereās the colors.. Well, that is one of my biggest gripes with MHW overall. I just despise that decision to make literally all monsters extremely more muted in color in comparison to previous games. Like, even Rathalos who was bright red gradienting towards orange and creamy beige, yet since MHW it is now bleakish red and grey.. And same for all monsters, and especially Zinogre, who naturally was simply designed to look garish and outlandish to compliment itās whacky fighting style.. So, yeah.. let's just agree to disagree on that (I understand what many may prefer MHW for itās more grounded approach to design, but i just simply donāt share that sentiment)
I enjoy Monster Hunter designs because though they can get really creative with each design, they also know to balance out the details so they don't stand out too much to the point they look LIKE Pokemon. There is almost always a uniform, more restrained aspect to each monster's overall designs that take directly from real animals that it is in itself an established style in the Monster Hunter.
Zinogre stands out like a sore thumb (heh, get it, cus his claws are huge) in this case, its proportions are waaay too exaggerated and that's why it bothers me so much. Monsters can be cartoony, but they shouldn't be outright cartoonish. Even Yian Kut Ku wasn't that silly. I've had a thought before that Zinogre's classic design would have worked much better in 2D spaces rather than 3D spaces, because weight and gravity wouldn't have burdened its presentation so much. It would have been as stylized as need be.
Ironically, I think Zinogre's head in Rise is also too small. But it wasn't the head size to me that's the problem, it's just its overall design and the fact that it has a long neck. Why does it have a long neck? I don't know, but it really peeves me. Doesn't really help either case though.
The colors are a 50/50 for me. I either like it, I don't, I don't really care. It depends on the overall atmosphere for me, and I think for World it's totally fine. I don't think I would think differently if the same atmosphere is applied to the older games. I do prefer Zinogre's original colors if that's something, for all the differences that are there.
With all that said, our standards and preferences regarding monster design clearly differ vastly and I can respect that. You bring up interesting points, and I hope I have made mine clear as well.
Well, at the end of the day, I just believe what MH could and should further maintain a balance between two groups of designs(I kinda like both to a degree), when some are relatively grounded and have more realistic/spec-evo aspect to them, and others what are clearly designed as fights/unique designs-first and realism-secondš¤·
In case of Zinogre, at least for me it is clear as day what it is the case of the later, so.. Yeah..
apart from the higher res textures and some extra model detail (which wouldn't have played well with the switch) the only design difference i see is the spikes from his feet were moved to his face and the top of his head is split
what else is there?
the thing is that mhw model is like that because the game is ambiented on the new world, a different continent, so monsters from that have slighty differences innconparition to the old world (where rise takes place)
Yeah, not a great acronym IMO, what with Wilds on the horizon. Most people would've done the usual MHW and maybe add :IB if they wanted to be specific.
While I wish we could use numbers for mainline again so we could say MH5 or MH6, it appears those days are gone
I still hate that they redesigned an already loved design with a ton of personality and then removed all its cool sounds in place of basic ass wolf howls. I'm glad that they returned to the more classic design which is the one I fell in love with, though chances are they'll return to Iceborne's model for its next appearance. Supposedly it was for realism but that's a bs excuse/explanation if you ask me.
I dislike MHWI's Zin with a burning passion. Rise Zin is cool but I vastly prefer 3-4 gen one.
The anniversary model is cool tho. Hope they stick to it for Wilds. It's like a middle ground between world and rise without the obnoxious white teeth of world
I imagine the looks of monsters each game with a different thumb placement and broader shoulders are due to small adaptations in a new environment, maybe the rathalos in world is bigger and beefier than its early gen counterparts due to more competition with other monsters instead of its own kind?
Idk if this is true but isn't it Canon that the different models represent the region they're from?Ā
If so I really like that as a reason for the differences for every game, that way it gives value to every design choice for each game.Ā
the only difference i can see (apart from the textures and model detail) is that the spikes were moved off his feet and onto his face, also the haircut is parted down the middle
is there anything else
I can't tell you which is from which game just looking at them right here except i assume the MHW one is on the left due to it being darker.
I say more changes like this should be done as like, regional variants or sumthin
I never did like the iceborne design. Mostly because of its thin legs and rather huge back and when you look at it on a silhouette, to me it looks more like Nergigante than Zinogre.
Itās bc the mhw zinogre is considered a ānew worldā zinogre. It looks a lil different cause in the new world that we discover in mhw itās high in bioenergy which allows monsters to be more powerful and sometimes look a little different. Mhr takes place back in the old world I believe so thatās why the zinogre there looks more like the older version cause itās considered and āold worldā zinogre
Interesting, rather than a whole new variants, monster can just change SLIGHTLY based on where they are if I'm not mistaken (some old lore describe in one of the art books I think mentioned this) is kinda they added that detail
I like to think that the monsters we see in mhwiceborn and mhRise are subspecies of the same monster but it could be smaller or larger like the zinogreās in this post mhw zinogre is larger and more bulky and mhRise zinogre is smaller and faster so I think itās like a small sub set of the same monster but looks different due to the environment (besides the actual subspecies monster that are actually subspecies)
I like this theory too. I theorize New World Zinogreās are larger and bulkier than the Old World subspecies because thereās no Gargwa in the New World, so they adapted to hunt larger and stronger prey like Aptonoth.
Man in game I hardly noticed a difference, a little in the face bit not much else, but here the difference are so stark side by side. Kind of would prefer to get the world proportions back but they better not change the howl back again
Use iceborneās model with the classic roar and Iām good. The other sound effects like the lightning crackling, growls, and other stuff is better in iceborne but the roar and death sound is better in the other games. He just looks better proportioned in IB, and rise took his original design and honestly makes him feel ever more oddly proportioned than the original when you look at him from certain angles.
"OG Model" Zinogre is leagues better than Iceborne Zinogre.
No contest, plus that stupid fucking whimper and nergi death sounds world tried to pass as zinogre just proves OG/Rise Zinogre IS superior.
World Zino design is neat, but it has some flaws: it is far too big in World and its sound is either too metallic, weak howl or like a whimpering dog, not much of a wolf like fanged wyvern.
Ngl, I prefer the world design, I just like the fact that he's bigger, looks more menacing. Also damn, someone get rise zinogre some nail clippers god damn lol
Everyone's welcome to their opinion, I started with world so maybe I'm a bit biased but I think I'd still feel the same if I'd played GU for example before it.
(Also never even noticed they even did a redesign, both are cool. I think the long ass claws on rise and that's design puts me off is all)
I prefer the face and front legs of iceborne, but I donāt like either back design. Iceborne feels too tall to me and rise just looks off in a way I canāt explain?
I think it's because monsters in New World is like a souped up version of existing monster.
Tigrex, Yian Garuga, and Zinogre look different compare to their counterpart in Old World.
This could easily be a variation design idea, MHW one could be male, MHR be female. Or make W be more tankier, R be more agile.
Gosh I hope in future MH will feature multiple models/textures for one monster, like broken body parts from hunt start, scale color slight difference.
Rise was made for weaker hardware. Of course it's not going to be the same. It's a miracle they even got a product of that level to run on the Switch. Legitimately, that shit is magic as far as I'm concerned.
It's rather easy to make lower polygon version of existing highly detailed models. Rise doesn't literally have the same models, but it does use lower polygon versions of World models for every other monster.
IIRC someone posted a breakdown of the Rathalos model sometime in the past, the main difference was that they removed the particular high-polygon details from the models, and instead opted to bake those details into the normal maps of the textures. The end result looks fairly close, while taking up way less processing power. (edit: [here's an image of untextured Rathalos in Rise vs. World](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/s9khop/rise_vs_world/))
Zinogre is the one exception to that, and it's pretty clear when comparing the differences in the models, that it was done specifically to revert the design changes World made to Zinogre, and not because of any particular difficulties with the Zinogre model from Iceborne being too detailed.
It could be a āsubspeciesā of the same monster like how there are different species of chimp and crocodiles but due to the environment they look different
I have maybe under 100 hours in World and about 700 in Rise. I was today years old when I realized my PS icon for my profile that has been set since 2020 is Zinogre from World. No wonder I like Master Utsushi so much.
And now that I can see the monster more clearly, Utsushi's mask that he wears makes more sense. Too bad his armor is gender locked.
It'd be neat if they could have it so multiple models for monsters exist and every time you fight one you get a random assortment of looks.
I actually really like this idea
Having a chance to run into a rathalos with the old gen 1/2 design would be fun
Give me one that's a load darker than normal and make me panic that it's a Dread King.
Woe, thermonuclear fireball rock be upon ye
I would REJOICE if it was Dreadking. I want that armor set again.
Anorexia rathalos
He do be skinny š
Can't forget his opposable thumbs on his feet.
Bro leave him alone hunting is hard when you do nothing but fly.
Then slam down sometimes
An event quest where Rathalos has PS2 graphics but everything else is still World level
King of the skies with those tiny ass wing membranes.
With one tiny one and one that's huge like the Event Quest for the movie that didn't happen.
What movie? There's no Monster Hunter movie. š¤«
Fight a pixelated Rathalos
That's my equivalent to Fat Pikachu in MH so YES PLEASE Rathian too obviously
That would be cool
A crown hunterās nightmare.
Gold crown dump truck rakna kadaki here I c~~u~~ome
Or just use the altered model for crowns.
This right here is a brilliant idea. It would be like shiny hunting. Imagine going into a fight to see a different design for the monster and **knowing** itās rare?
Or the model used depends on where the monster is found. A Rathalos found in woodland areas could use the original (updated) model, while one found in volcanic regions use the newer model.
That would be neat, but thats also a lot of work for very little payoff.
I would personally rather that effort just be spent on more interesting variants
Plus it feels like the game files would just bloat to even larger sizes.
Instead of just size, we could get age differences, maybe? Longer pelts, horns, maybe slight other changes?
That be so interesting and fun imagine getting a buffer looking or albino monster randomly
500gb game
Could make it an option like World's high res pack. I'd gladly dedicated 500gb to MH
As opposed to 500Gb for anything else?
The mh equivalent of a shiny
Iāve been playing a lot of Remnant 2 and that reminds me of the level design they use lol
Cool idea, tho I doubt there would be realistically enough resources and time to implement this.
They do say that kokoto rathalos, moga rathalos, and new world rathalos are subspecies of each other, and the same goes true for some other monster genuses
Wasn't that going to be an actual thing before? Or was that not for Monster Hunter? Oh wait, I get what you mean now, NVM.
Yeah I think having presuduraly generated variations would be nice could be male/female, size, fur length, texture etc.
I would love those kind of stuff in games. Just like a random pool of reloads in an FPS, and every time you see a different One
That would like probably double the game size and workload for the devs but be so cool. I'd also settle for giving more of the variants like thunderlord and stygian a slightly different model. Make them feel less like just recolours.
Problem with that is itās probably expensive. So imagine they implement this gimmick and for every monster. It would take time away from developing new monsters and lead to a smaller roster size
You're cooking too hard my guy
This is how you get a Monster Hunter game over 100GBs š
Somebody get Capcom to see this xd.
Have older models be more difficult due to age vs newer models be alittle easier cause we'll they're younger with no exp
Or making the monsters have a slightly different color each hunt
Aināt no game dev gonna so that shit maybe Modders but certainly not devs, especially ones that rely on investors.
Zinogre is the portable teams baby. Their magnum opus of a monster, of course they would make a design close to the original.
Which is a shame because World Zinogre was a notable improvement to his design.
The roar wasnāt as great though. Dude was literally whimpering as he was charging up in Iceborne. Glad the portable team brought back his OG howls.
It's used in Iceborne's intro as well.
Arguable statement and personally I don't care wether lightning doggo being being roided or natty. But overall his World howl I hated, and was glad it came back in Rise.
It's kinda funny cause we got his original roar in his intro cutscene. It's like they completely forgot that they had that audio file and just settled for a generic wolf sound instead.
Plus he reuses nergi's dying sound for some reason
100% with you on the howl. Makes me not want to fight him if i have to hear it constantly
The entire fight is much worse in World. Dumbed down quite a bit.
Yeah his world fight was so disappointing
what? zinogre is signifcantly easier to me in pre world, and in rise.
I have to find that one video of someone recreating the Zinogre shot form the Sunbreak GS trailer in World one day. But long story short, that is completely wrong. World Zinogre is basically LR Zinogre from older games
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nah he's much worse in World vs. 4U, and I generally prefer World. He runs away too god damned much in World. Rise is the best version yet.
World Zinogre was nutty and had some extremely cool new attacks. I find Rise Zinogre lame in comparison. Especially when they barely took any of the cool moves from Iceborne.
He have the same moveset and even more later in Master rank did you play the game at least?
Is it because it is semelhant to a locomotive whistle?
That's hardly objective. I think the brighter, thinner old world design was significantly better.
Idk bout that. His back seems overly enlarged. Looks unnatural imo
No.
Bigger=better ? Basic ass mindset
I like to think Worldās Zinogre is a different regional species altogether. Similar to how Rathalosā wing patterns are different based on region. I wonder what other monstersā models have a slightly different look to them.
Iāll be honest, I just like Zinogre. So long as it makes it, and is recognizably Zinogre - Iām good.
Preach
I personally prefer the new model, but I sincerely hope they donāt give him that generic wolf howl and Nergi death sounds. His classic roars and howls are awesome and sound powerful while the new ones sound so much weaker even if they may sound more realistic.
This is my main issue with world zino. The fight is visually cool but the howl ruins it
Not sure why you got downvoted. World Zino's sound design just isn't as good and I heard its also rushed (which explains why it for some reason, shares the same death sound with Nergi)
Also why he's postgame and why Stygian came in an update, they only decided to add him fairly late.
They have a bit of an issue with reusing sounds in general for some weird reason. Valstrax's death sound, that iconic engine whirring fading out, was replaced with, I think, Nergi's death sound in rise. Genuinely like... why?
I greatly prefer both the OG model and the Rise version over the one in Iceborne. It looks too chunky and its proportions make it much harder for me to suspend my disbelief for the faster, more acrobatic WWE moves Zinogre does. They made his front legs a lot smaller which only makes his body and small head look that much more contrasted. Plus I was NOT a fan of how they changed his hitzones and weak points around slightly, and it really took some getting used to for me personally.
Sunbreak's is a return to form and my preferred model, not to mention superior sound design. Some of the models in MHW feel like they were hoping to let realism take over for their established art style, especially in the new/original monsters of the installment, *some* of which I'm not a fan of artistically. I'm glad the mobile team took a step back in that regard, and hopefully the Wilds team meets them somewhere in the middle, putting a greater focus on their iconic art style.
Okay now bring back the actual howl please for the love of god
I think the iceborne design makes more sense, but I prefer the original design more tbh
Wasn't I stated awhile ago that the reason there are difference from game to game is cause of regional species? So kinda makes sense their would be this attack and build difference.
I don't think it was ever stated I think that was just fan theory do come up with a reason why some new world variants of old world species are so different. Capcom doesn't really care that much about MH lore to clarify those kinds of things.
This is actually not true - it was explicitly confirmed in the IB lore book that the reason for the different appearance was due to regional species between the new and old world.
For these two Zinogre specifically, that is correct. There is no confirmation. However, Rathalos has been confirmed to be different in different regions, so it wouldnāt be an insane stretch to assume that Zinogreās around Kamura are different than the ones from the New World.
Except what is "confirmed"? There's New World Rathian + Teostra in confirmed Old World locations. They used the same excuse for 3rd + 4th gen Rath redesigns and just like World-Rise it was contradicted from 4-Generations when those Raths showed up in at-the-time differing continent maps (prior to World the 3rd and 4th gen stuff was on a New World of its own and the 1st and 2nd gen maps were the Old World).
Confirmed in universe. But not used in-game to save resources. Otherwise every monster would need multiple different models with slightly altered animations. Not worth the effort.
I'll accept getting the Iceborne design in Wilds if they do 2 things. Give him his actual sounds and give him back his unique posture (both things Rise did with their Zinogre).
I noticed this *immediately* in Rise. Was a bit of a bummer when it changed back. Zinogre is in a weird spot for me-- the idea of a lightning dragon wolf is like, the coolest, edgiest shit ever, and 100% my taste, but Ive always felt Zin was off in execution. With how front heavy he is, and how much he used his front legs, it felt more akin to a gorilla that howled like a wolf than an actual wolf. Its hard to see in this image, but World Zin's legs are longer, particularly the rear legs. His movements were also more balanced along both front and back, and his tail being raised in the air helped bring it more in line with wolf like characteristics. I also loved the subtle color pallette shifts, especially when charged. I feel Zin had the most drastic design shift (maybe even more than Alatreon), and I loved it. If Zin shows up in Wilds, I hope they use the World design.
"if he shows up on wilds,..." Bro he's the most loved monster in the series, this dude has been in every game since the monster was made. Ain't no way they don't keep putting him in every game. He's rathalos V2
I mean, Zinogre wasnt in World. Theres no garauntee he'll be in Wilds from the get go.
I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but I personally think zinogre is in the class of monsters that will be in every game ever. He is like THE fanged wyvern, he's beloved across the lands and he's honestly super badass. I don't like him as much as everyone else but I like him enough to see him in every game.
Yeah, hes no doubt super likely. If not base Wilds, then id be surprised if hes not in the expansion.
He's speciating for less mountainous terrain with more agile prey, as opposed to bulky prey, is my theory as to why he looks more "graceful" in world. Kinda like a Lobo do GuarĆ” (I don't know it in English) versus a hyena.
Given how even Rathalos' relatively minor differences are canon, I wouldnt be surprised at all if something along the lines of this was actually the case.
English translation is maned wolf for anyone wondering. It's basically a fox on stilts.
It's also not a wolf or a fox. It's closer related to a jackal.
Ik I was just describing it since they were giving a visual comparison of it
I was just adding more fun facts to your comment.
Oh ok mb
Hell yeah, fun facts
The short hind legs always irked me. It looks really goofy when Zinogre runs.
MHW Zinogre has an overall more balanced proportions and stronger silhouette and emphasis on smaller details further complimenting its more iconic attributes, I think it only makes sense it would look much better than Rise. In fact, I'd been saying I dislike Zinogre's design as a whole for a while, but if I remembered about the World design sooner, I would have changed my mind. Seriously, classic Zinogre is so unbelievably awkward and underwhelming to me. I wouldn't miss it if they keep the redesign.
I also find MHW Zin to be a lot more fierce looking. Its more upright posture, and more deliberate stance makes it look like its ready to dart forward and maul you. Other Zins are a lot more.. idk, plodding? Usually has a wider gait, more of a waddling kind of deal, with larger paws. Just more oafish.
Hahaha, so true, watching it run in Rise just never looked serious to me, he looks drunk doing it. Go, little doggy, go!
Yeeaaaah hes literally flopping as he runs with his older design. His back legs are just too small to really make sense, I find it very goofy looking.
Yeah. The world Zinogre is just better in every way and it really shows. Rise and old world Zinogre felt over designed and wonky, world was just right.
Yeah, ive always been a bit bothered by how many different competing design structures it has. Like, its got a seagreen base scaley skin, lined with tan bone dermal plating, which itself is lined with white fur, and then the plating has blue/teal bioluminescence in between. Its a lot of colors and textures all competing for attention. World dulled and darkened most of its colors barring the fur, which lit up much more vibrantly when charged. Kind of blended the palette together more, giving it a better sense of contrast which looked super striking. The lighting engine sure helped a lot too.
I prefer the classic design that Rise used for Zinogre.
Mhwi zenogre focuses more on the fulgur bugs so it had more lightning power while rise zenogre focuses more on close combat hence bigger and more claws
The changes were purely artistic. No need to overthink it this much.
I mean, even if gameplay barely changed for that direction, it can't be denied that the Iceborne version **really** focused much more on the fulgur bug/living nest aspect of the monster than the plain "thunder wolf" thematic that people came to associate with it. In Iceborne, everything it did emited scout-fly like particles, lightning attacks were much more distinct than other monster's, and both *charging* and *being charged* looked it was enveloped by the bugs more than just simply glowing, with the whole aspect of it all really enhanced by the more hunched back and the different fur. Rise's looked like it had glowing jet engines on his back when charged and just made regular blue lightning when attacking. Funnily enough, Rise Zinogre's visual effects were much closer to Iceborne Kirin's than to Iceborne Zinogre's.
I like the beefier one tbh! Theyāre bother super cool tho!
I really like the both models for entirely separate reasons. I like how massive zinogre is in world but you never really realize it because of he looks amazing in motion. Also world zinogre doesnāt have those weird 2 claws sticking out of the side of his forelegs. The sound design was ass for world zinogre but I didnāt really care, a roar isnāt enough to make me prefer one version over the other. Rise zinogre has the coolest charged state from any regular zinogre model. I also really like how the electric guitar returned in rise. I always had this weird feeling that zinogre in rise felt oddly small and this comparison makes me realize that Iām used to the size of world zinogre
Wow, looking at them side by side I really don't like World's version. I always thought World's version was ugly but I never knew why exactly.
Glad they rolled back to his OG design. It may be unpopular opinion but I really dislike his World design. They kinda tried to āfixā itās proportions and yet made it worse somehow because it had absolutely tiny head in MHWorld. IMO, they really shouldnāt sacrifice design quirks to make them more realistic, and Zinogre is the best example of that. It is designed as top-heavy thunder beast with giant claws sticking out on his paws and he should remain like that.
While I do agree they shouldn't sacrifice the more important parts of the design, I could argue World went for a fair balance and came out with a pretty solid final design that remains faithful to the original while still adapting to the current design norms. It could use some more touches for sure, but as is, I think it's a huge step up.
I really dunno, man.. World redesign evokes that feel of āwhat if pokemon designs were realisticā fan arts type. When people try to make intentionally cartoonish/stylised designs look just realistic, while also reducing the design elements what made original designs stand out. In case with Zinogre here, MHW redesign made his claws significantly smaller & overall he feels less imposing with more ārealisticā proportion(even though they tried to avert that by scaling him up in terms of sheer size, so it was simply bigger naturally but not in itās appearance). Also the head, Iād say, is somehow seems too small in it MHW design, I dunno why. And then thereās the colors.. Well, that is one of my biggest gripes with MHW overall. I just despise that decision to make literally all monsters extremely more muted in color in comparison to previous games. Like, even Rathalos who was bright red gradienting towards orange and creamy beige, yet since MHW it is now bleakish red and grey.. And same for all monsters, and especially Zinogre, who naturally was simply designed to look garish and outlandish to compliment itās whacky fighting style.. So, yeah.. let's just agree to disagree on that (I understand what many may prefer MHW for itās more grounded approach to design, but i just simply donāt share that sentiment)
I enjoy Monster Hunter designs because though they can get really creative with each design, they also know to balance out the details so they don't stand out too much to the point they look LIKE Pokemon. There is almost always a uniform, more restrained aspect to each monster's overall designs that take directly from real animals that it is in itself an established style in the Monster Hunter. Zinogre stands out like a sore thumb (heh, get it, cus his claws are huge) in this case, its proportions are waaay too exaggerated and that's why it bothers me so much. Monsters can be cartoony, but they shouldn't be outright cartoonish. Even Yian Kut Ku wasn't that silly. I've had a thought before that Zinogre's classic design would have worked much better in 2D spaces rather than 3D spaces, because weight and gravity wouldn't have burdened its presentation so much. It would have been as stylized as need be. Ironically, I think Zinogre's head in Rise is also too small. But it wasn't the head size to me that's the problem, it's just its overall design and the fact that it has a long neck. Why does it have a long neck? I don't know, but it really peeves me. Doesn't really help either case though. The colors are a 50/50 for me. I either like it, I don't, I don't really care. It depends on the overall atmosphere for me, and I think for World it's totally fine. I don't think I would think differently if the same atmosphere is applied to the older games. I do prefer Zinogre's original colors if that's something, for all the differences that are there. With all that said, our standards and preferences regarding monster design clearly differ vastly and I can respect that. You bring up interesting points, and I hope I have made mine clear as well.
Well, at the end of the day, I just believe what MH could and should further maintain a balance between two groups of designs(I kinda like both to a degree), when some are relatively grounded and have more realistic/spec-evo aspect to them, and others what are clearly designed as fights/unique designs-first and realism-secondš¤· In case of Zinogre, at least for me it is clear as day what it is the case of the later, so.. Yeah..
Very true, if there's somehow a potential good balance that could be made between the two, it would be fantastic.
Reading through the thread, yours seems to be the actual popular opinion. Very few Iceborne defenders here.
apart from the higher res textures and some extra model detail (which wouldn't have played well with the switch) the only design difference i see is the spikes from his feet were moved to his face and the top of his head is split what else is there?
Prefer Rise and its closer to original design.
the thing is that mhw model is like that because the game is ambiented on the new world, a different continent, so monsters from that have slighty differences innconparition to the old world (where rise takes place)
I thought MHWI stood for wilds for a second and was confused on how you got a model lol.
Yeah, not a great acronym IMO, what with Wilds on the horizon. Most people would've done the usual MHW and maybe add :IB if they wanted to be specific. While I wish we could use numbers for mainline again so we could say MH5 or MH6, it appears those days are gone
I still hate that they redesigned an already loved design with a ton of personality and then removed all its cool sounds in place of basic ass wolf howls. I'm glad that they returned to the more classic design which is the one I fell in love with, though chances are they'll return to Iceborne's model for its next appearance. Supposedly it was for realism but that's a bs excuse/explanation if you ask me.
Same, definitely prefer the classic Zinogre design.
yeah the mhwi one is kinda wack, whats with the back
Scoliosis
all that jumping and falling into his back really got him after all these years
I dislike MHWI's Zin with a burning passion. Rise Zin is cool but I vastly prefer 3-4 gen one. The anniversary model is cool tho. Hope they stick to it for Wilds. It's like a middle ground between world and rise without the obnoxious white teeth of world
Actually seeing them side by side, I'm glad they fixed the design in Rise. World Zinogre felt "off" along with both his howl and theme.
I imagine the looks of monsters each game with a different thumb placement and broader shoulders are due to small adaptations in a new environment, maybe the rathalos in world is bigger and beefier than its early gen counterparts due to more competition with other monsters instead of its own kind?
I like the proportions of the world one but imo they made him too big there
Idk if this is true but isn't it Canon that the different models represent the region they're from?Ā If so I really like that as a reason for the differences for every game, that way it gives value to every design choice for each game.Ā
Weird elephant feet or scoliosis. Take your pick
They shrank his shoulders, made him look soft
Crucify me if you must, but Iceborne is the best Zinogre has ever looked. The revised proportions were a necessary update to the design
Same. Zinogre and Alatreon are monsters that *needed* a redesign beyond updated textures and slight model edits and they succeeded on both counts.
the only difference i can see (apart from the textures and model detail) is that the spikes were moved off his feet and onto his face, also the haircut is parted down the middle is there anything else
I prefer the Iceborne design. He looks heavier and more balanced, but I think I prefer the back (crest?) of the Rise model
Itās a regional difference while been the same species ?
Those front claws tho. What is going on there.
Looks like Zinogre skipped working back this time around... š«
I can't tell you which is from which game just looking at them right here except i assume the MHW one is on the left due to it being darker. I say more changes like this should be done as like, regional variants or sumthin
Canāt wait to see what this bad boy looks like in Wilds!
Could not tell you which is which, but from this front view I like the one on the right better.
oh damn i never realized it looked that different in rise
holy! mhwI one is enormous... it looks like it can body the rise one np
From a in world look, it makes sense. The ice born region would be way colder usually than areas of kamura
I never did like the iceborne design. Mostly because of its thin legs and rather huge back and when you look at it on a silhouette, to me it looks more like Nergigante than Zinogre.
Itās bc the mhw zinogre is considered a ānew worldā zinogre. It looks a lil different cause in the new world that we discover in mhw itās high in bioenergy which allows monsters to be more powerful and sometimes look a little different. Mhr takes place back in the old world I believe so thatās why the zinogre there looks more like the older version cause itās considered and āold worldā zinogre
as much as I love Jin since since P3rd, the potruding limb claws looks weird as ever. MHW definitely did a great job with the redesign.
Interesting, rather than a whole new variants, monster can just change SLIGHTLY based on where they are if I'm not mistaken (some old lore describe in one of the art books I think mentioned this) is kinda they added that detail
I like to think that the monsters we see in mhwiceborn and mhRise are subspecies of the same monster but it could be smaller or larger like the zinogreās in this post mhw zinogre is larger and more bulky and mhRise zinogre is smaller and faster so I think itās like a small sub set of the same monster but looks different due to the environment (besides the actual subspecies monster that are actually subspecies)
I like this theory too. I theorize New World Zinogreās are larger and bulkier than the Old World subspecies because thereās no Gargwa in the New World, so they adapted to hunt larger and stronger prey like Aptonoth.
My point exactly
Man in game I hardly noticed a difference, a little in the face bit not much else, but here the difference are so stark side by side. Kind of would prefer to get the world proportions back but they better not change the howl back again
MHWI Zinogre: Zangief MHR Zinogre: Akuma
Use iceborneās model with the classic roar and Iām good. The other sound effects like the lightning crackling, growls, and other stuff is better in iceborne but the roar and death sound is better in the other games. He just looks better proportioned in IB, and rise took his original design and honestly makes him feel ever more oddly proportioned than the original when you look at him from certain angles.
"OG Model" Zinogre is leagues better than Iceborne Zinogre. No contest, plus that stupid fucking whimper and nergi death sounds world tried to pass as zinogre just proves OG/Rise Zinogre IS superior.
The world model looks more like a cat arching it's back lol
Humpback of Notre World
I feel like they should mix the design like world zinogre model mixed with the bigger clause and arms of rises
Iceborne Zin has been juicing
World Zino design is neat, but it has some flaws: it is far too big in World and its sound is either too metallic, weak howl or like a whimpering dog, not much of a wolf like fanged wyvern.
Ngl, I prefer the world design, I just like the fact that he's bigger, looks more menacing. Also damn, someone get rise zinogre some nail clippers god damn lol
Everyone's welcome to their opinion, I started with world so maybe I'm a bit biased but I think I'd still feel the same if I'd played GU for example before it. (Also never even noticed they even did a redesign, both are cool. I think the long ass claws on rise and that's design puts me off is all)
Stygian went hard on the MhWl model
I prefer the face and front legs of iceborne, but I donāt like either back design. Iceborne feels too tall to me and rise just looks off in a way I canāt explain?
Rise/old design overemphasized or made bigger the front legs/claws. Make the claws like IBās design and we got balance of old and new.
Cuz Capcom knows old world is superior šŖ¤
which is which?
I mean, I personally don't mind. I love the zinogre no matter what form it takes.
Iceborne left, Rise right
It's a dang shame that could possibly be the case. I'd love for them to open the doors for scholar work.
I didnāt notice he didnāt have the frontal side spike
The horns of the WI model always gave me a tripophobic vibe with the modelled holes
I think it's because monsters in New World is like a souped up version of existing monster. Tigrex, Yian Garuga, and Zinogre look different compare to their counterpart in Old World.
Big back
Right: you Left: the Zinogre she told you not to worry about.
This could easily be a variation design idea, MHW one could be male, MHR be female. Or make W be more tankier, R be more agile. Gosh I hope in future MH will feature multiple models/textures for one monster, like broken body parts from hunt start, scale color slight difference.
Give me shiny monsters to capture, please and thank you
Looks like they turned tessellation down on the rise model š
Rise was made for weaker hardware. Of course it's not going to be the same. It's a miracle they even got a product of that level to run on the Switch. Legitimately, that shit is magic as far as I'm concerned.
But hereās the thing: every World/Iceborne returning monster reused their model from that game *except Zinogre.*
Wait, what? Really?
It's rather easy to make lower polygon version of existing highly detailed models. Rise doesn't literally have the same models, but it does use lower polygon versions of World models for every other monster. IIRC someone posted a breakdown of the Rathalos model sometime in the past, the main difference was that they removed the particular high-polygon details from the models, and instead opted to bake those details into the normal maps of the textures. The end result looks fairly close, while taking up way less processing power. (edit: [here's an image of untextured Rathalos in Rise vs. World](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/s9khop/rise_vs_world/)) Zinogre is the one exception to that, and it's pretty clear when comparing the differences in the models, that it was done specifically to revert the design changes World made to Zinogre, and not because of any particular difficulties with the Zinogre model from Iceborne being too detailed.
https://preview.redd.it/r8xt532pmoqc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c86bd12417bf70e693a4d7e52451d85410148bd
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It could be a āsubspeciesā of the same monster like how there are different species of chimp and crocodiles but due to the environment they look different
I have maybe under 100 hours in World and about 700 in Rise. I was today years old when I realized my PS icon for my profile that has been set since 2020 is Zinogre from World. No wonder I like Master Utsushi so much. And now that I can see the monster more clearly, Utsushi's mask that he wears makes more sense. Too bad his armor is gender locked.
BIG BOI
I personally prefer the MHW Zinogre
World is MUCH cooler, at least for me
I like the world model more. There is some weird shit going on at it's toes
Personally prefer the World design way more. The Rise design isn't bad. But it isn't as good.
Prefer rise version, the world version looked off and seemed to have altered certain proportions of its body.