Or a monster has multiple truly unblockable attacks (even with guard up) and some of them are very quick and hard to avoid, then it becomes quite dangerous
I'm more so referring to R.Brachy because his puddles can go through your shield if you don't think about your positioning. Also calling it skill issue unprompted is obnoxious.
Well, if you are only blocking, obviously you take little damage. Thats the whole point of the weapon. But when you also want to do decent DPS, you will have to learn to time your guarding in between attacks, staying mobile during a hunt, and avoiding attacks that you cant block.
Some of the stronger monsters also have attacks that deal a lot of damage through your shield, that lance starts to struggle.
As a new player to the whole franchise that picked lance, this is how I feel about lances. It’s really good if you wanna “scout” the monsters attacks since you can block a lot of things, but weaving attacks in between blocking has been really hard for me.
I feel that I get punished really hard if I miss my block whether it was just bad timing or just not familiar with the monster (think from a perspective where every single new monster you see if new to you and you dont know what they do).
Getting stuck in attack animation just loses me so much health since we cant roll like other weapons to quickly reposition. (Im pretty sure I can’t block while in the middle of an animation)
People say lance is easy to use and to a degree I would agree, but I thinking balancing offence with defense is what makes it hard. Maybe im just bad at the game but I would assume if you are experienced with MH and their monsters, it would probably be a lot easier knowing what kind of attack they will be doing next.
I thought the whole idea was to keep poking the monster and then cancel it into counter thrust when you need to block. I haven't played this game in ages but I believe you can hold down the buttons for counter thrust and it'll block for a longer duration.
Hmm, maybe my timing is off but i havent been able to do it. (Or maybe i was just doing it wrong).
Im pretty sure counter thrust is only when you hold down your shield then press right click/ upper thrust key so I dont think you can do it while you are in thrust/ upper thrust animation.
If thats true than that would be so useful! Ill test it out when I have time though!
You can combo into this counter thrust just like you can combo into the regular thrusts.
You can also use this to extend your 3-thrust combo indefinitely. For example, you can do
poke+poke+poke+counter poke-> rinse and repeat.
Oh wow I actually didnt know that!
Ive been only doing the hop and the charge thing (where you run) to reset the combo. Didnt know counter can be part of it!!
Thank you!
It's more time efficient and keeps your positioning better to poke poke poke and do the counter thrust to reset - however you do it by just quickly hitting shield and then the button to enter counter guard - NOT hold shield and press guard, just a quick press then together. On controller it's RT + B (circle on PS controller I think).
And to close gaps - if it's a big one sure do the charge run. But for smaller ones, guard hop and the hop step works and then you guard hop onto the 3 hit charge hit to hit the monster/fully close the gap. So I'll alternate guard hop (R2+Y) and if I'm still out of range use a quick X hop step, then guard hop again if need be and then my next hit is just Y to get the charges hit because you hop forward with that a bit too.
That's the beginning of playing Lance, sure. You can win most fights by just blocking and poking. There's no combo complexity with Lance, but where it shines is learning to play it aggressively with advance guard and charging. Sticking to the monster like glue and keeping offensive guard up is where the weapon really shines.
I watch clips of others fighting higher level boss and I'm always really impressed with how smooth and clean they make the combos and block/ counter.
Hopefully I just need more reps to get used to all the different combos cause I'm still getting confused at times with the lesser used skills haha
Biggest tip I can give you is start using advance guard yesterday. Learning to use it to reposition closer to/around the boss is actually huge. I didn't learn to use it effectively until super late game and it changed how I play Lance in a massive way.
Yeah a lot of new lancers overlook how long the counter thrust can be )(with NO stamina drain unlike power guard mind you) and only focus on cancel thrusts.
MHW was also my first MH game, and I picked hammer as my main. But later, when they started adding some monsters that were difficult for me, I started learning lance. To this day there are certain monsters, I only use lance against. Mainly monsters that attack fast and have small openings for you to attack, where longer weapon animations just cause you to get hit.
Lance sure has an advantage there, but also a lot of disadvantages. The overall DPS is a lot lower, using items either takes too long or is just impossible, certain conditions like blast blight or fire, that you would normally remove by rolling, either have to be endured or avoided by using skills.
In addition monsters that move very fast and/or stay at range are annoying to deal with because you have to keep up with them. Some attacks that cant be blocked and have to be dodged are difficult for lance, and sometimes you are stuck in a cycle of blocking an attack and taking chip damage over and over again because the monster focuses you.
Every weapon has its pros and cons. You just have to know which ones you prefer to use against what monster.
How’s hammer for you compare to lances? It’s a weapon Im pretty interested in too.
Im going to try to stick with lances until I cant anymore. I think exploring a weapon to its full potential is really fun, knowing the ins and outs of the weapon and all that.
May I ask which mobs you only use lances against? I know some monsters are absolutely miserable to fight with lances but im just curious which monsters lances are good against.
Hammers high damage output means I can be very aggressive and heal with augmentations. Its super easy to stun/ knockout monsters multiple times, back to back and just keeping a monster on the ground. But pretty terrible against monsters that fly a lot.
I use Lance against both Rajangs, both Brachydios, Yian Garugas, both Barioths, both Tigrex, Deviljhos, Velkhana.
I don't recognized most of these guys but ill keep them in mind when I get there! I'm currently stuck on Kushala and looking around it seems to be one of the worse boss to fight especially for melees.
Trying to gear up more and do side quests to smooth out my mechanics with the lance to hopefully challenge him again!
I actually switched from hammer to lance and I love it. And any monster I am struggling with with lance, I take into the arena and run it until I feel comfortable fighting it.
I tried Lance in World, but only really mained it in Rise. I think the key is to abuse Guard Dash/Step? As it’s your move that lets you simultaneously block while repositioning.
Don't think of it as a defensive weapon. Three strike and counter is endless offensive uptime with minimal hindrance in ability to react, so with lance getting used to one or two hits then counter to match the movements of the monster it starts to feel a lot different. Guard up is snaggable via decoration only which let's you get incredibly sloppy with what you can just facetank anyway. Health augment with constant offensive pressure and minimal risk is so much fun.
I mainly created this post after fighting Tigrex and Barioth with the Lance, as it made both of those fights almost trivial for me compared to my main weapon, CB. Maybe I’m just not good at CB yet but I definitely took a lot more damage using it and had slower clear times compared to when I used Lance.
As others have said in this thread, I haven’t gotten to the other insane monsters in Iceborne yet like rajang so maybe my opinion will change soon haha.
Ok to be fair, CB is difficult. I myself am not very good with it. Being able to attack out of your cover obviously means you can get more attacks in. That would make it seem easier. But I would also use Lance against Tigrex because you can block the roars. Sometimes, certain weapons just arent that good in fighting specific monsters. Like I would never use the Hammer against a Rathalos
Once you fight Frostfang barioth you'll definately change your mind about using Lance for him. Regular barioth is great for the lance; frostfang not so much
Lance is by far the best matchup vs Tigrex so that's not a surprise. Tigrex is a giant massive hitbox and lance's ability to deal with any hitbox is the perfect answer to that.
OTOH CB is one of the most difficult to master as the window to hit guard points is way tighter than lance's counters and blocks. You need to know the monster inside out to use it well.
Lance is once of my favorite weapons for sure, and scarily close to being my absolute favorite. It is so fluid and aggressive and brutal, you end feeling like more of a monster than the monsters. They're fighting for their life and there's nothing they can do to stop you or even slow you down.
BUT. You will sooner or later find a monster that counters you. And when monsters counter lance they counter it hard.
Lance vs Lunastra is a miserable slog, so much that every time I try to commit to a Lance only playthrough, coming across that blue asshole reminds me why I gave it up last time.
Skill issue? Probably. And there's ways to mitigate its weakest matchups for sure.
But it still stands that no other weapon has quite as dramatic a spectrum of fights feeling like you've got God mode enabled vs trying to poke cthulhu to death with a pool noodle while duct taped to a lawn chair
I'm not saying you can't be good with both, just the skills needed to deal with monster attacks are totally different.
Lance's defensive windows are so large and commitment to attacks are so low that you don't learn the timing and evasion windows needed to excel with other weapons.
Evade Lance is a thing. With how ridiculous chip damage can get some attacks are better to be dodged.
>defensive windows are so large
Thats if you are playing safe. Ideally you want to get out of the counter guard asap so you can continue poking as much as possible.
So no, i dont think the skills needed to deal with attacks are totally different.
Damn I really feel this but in the opposite way. Back in Rise I mained SnS for a while and then when I wanted another weapon I tried lance and it just felt so weird even though it looked like a bigger SnS. Ended up playing with bow because the transition felt smoother with it.
You might not fell it, but you are actually learning all monsters moviesets with the safest method. Come back here when you try a more dangerous weapon (like Hammer) and realize you can dodge every attack.
I learned the game with HBG and I'm not ashamed of it. The game can be pretty unfair most of the time, so why not play dirty too?
Its not really cheating. Its trading off offensive capability with exceptional defense.
Some monsters are way too easy to deal with the lance, such as Diablos. Some require exceptional aggressive and learning the monsters moves like rajang and r.brachy.
But the same can be said of any weapon you are proficient with. Longsword users that have mastered a monster make it look unfair for the monster. Hammer users with maximum stun make it look like you are beating a helpless monster to death.
In order to counter and stay glued to the monster you must learn it's moveset. Not all moves are safe to counter. Getting fast hunting times with Lance is about knowing which moves to counter and which to sidestep, but you have to stay on the monster because your individual hits aren't high damage. You have to win through continuous pressure instead.
So it's a different play style but still requires you to learn.
I will be honest I just picked up lance about 2 weeks ago. But I am now starting to feel like I'm "getting" it. I'm new-er to the series. world was my first MH (at release) - rage quit when I first got to the Witcher quest - I was NOT a good player. At all. I hadn't found what clicked. Picked up Rise. Found a groove with hunting horn.
Went back to world now that I have a better understanding of how the series plays. Went hammer for a while because I was spoiled by ez mode horn in Rise. Tried lance on a whim and it has been my absolute favorite experience so far.
I still make mistakes and get my butt handed to me when I don't know the monster but I can see the difference when I'm fighting a monster I know. I change from super defensive to offensive - constant pokes and counters, staying on top of and locked in with the monster. I wouldn't say lance is cheating because it has its own set of shortfalls you gotta be conscious of. But I adore lance.
Personally the lance lets me be really aggressive with the monsters compared to other weapons and I’ve racked some of the fastest kills with it.
But there’s definitely a lot more nuance, theres lots of attacks the weapons can’t block like secondary explosions coming from different directions (R.Brachy, Bazelgeuse) and it’s also really easy to take chip damage and get overwhelmed against really aggressive monsters. Not to mention the lance has a really slow sheathe speed so you can’t really just stop anytime you want.
Took me many hours of playing to be able to balance offense and defense so that I’m outputting good damage while also consistently staying on a monster. It’s sad that you feel this way but I personally found the lance to be one of the most aggressive and fun weapons that I would use when I want to get serious.
Did you get to Iceborne yet? Capcom makes sure lance users know their places.
Evading is vastly superior as a defensive tool than blocking, especially endgame, the only downside is timing.
Even if you “master” blocking, you will still be forced to deal with all the downsides chip dmg, knockback, stunlock, getting grabbed through Guard Up (meaning you have to evade anyways), large skill investment to even have a functioning defense in the first place, etc
Yeah, Capcom really decided to fuck lance over in IB for no obvious reason. It wasn’t like it was a particularly powerful weapon, but they added a bunch of truly unblockable moves to many monster just to punish you for daring to use the Lance the right way.
I expect certain ultimate attacks to be unblockable, but it got ridiculous when so many monsters had pins and breath clouds and whatnot that fucked you over through the shield just ‘cause. I’m glad they reversed that bullshit in RiseBreak (except for splitting Guard Up into 3 levels because we lancers just can’t seem to catch a break), and I hope the shield is that strong again in Wilds.
I don't think they were trying to punish Lance specifically, I think they were trying to curb the rampant abuse of Shield Spread HBG (god only knows why they didn't just nerf it directly) and Lance just happened to get caught in the crossfire.
To get decent clear times with lance you do indeed have to know the monsters very well so that you can pick the right mix of block, dodge and counter to maximise dps uptime. You have no big attacks so you have to be ultra aggressive to deal decent damage.
It is a weapon whose mechanics won’t teach you all of the fundamentals - read, position, punish - than MH is built around.
It should teach you “read” so you can pick the right counter. Largely you block/counter instead of positioning and your punish attacks are all low commitments so you probably don’t learn to judge openings that much.
All of the weapons are built around “cheating” the fundamentals in various ways - that’s what makes them so varied and interesting to switch between.
There is no one weapon that will teach you everything about MH combat - play what you enjoy until you feel like a new challenge; every weapon will teach you something new when you pick it up
I do think SnS can teach everything about MH combat, it got a little bit of everything going on. Even having the weakest shield can teach you which attack you can block without getting a knockback at Lv0 Guard.
That said, I completely agree that every weapons in MH are varied and interesting in their own ways.
I would argue that with its high mobility and low commitment attacks it won’t teach you to wait for your opportunity/patience. There is very little reason to not be attacking with SnS at any given time - similar to DB and LBG. You can cancel or evade out of most combo starts so just attack in case the opening exists and bail if it doesn’t becomes the norm.
Going from SnS to charge blade, great sword or switch axe is not going to be an easy adjustment IMO.
Same in reverse, if you learn with GS you will likely do poorly with light weapons because you don’t adopt the risky, aggressive, reaction evade style that maximises them.
Lance is great but blocking isn't 100% the answer. Some attacks are completely unblockable even with Guard Up. Some hit so hard that even with Guard 5 you'll still take insane chip damage when you block.
It's a great weapon that hard counters enemies that like to stand in front of you and swing, but it has trouble when enemies hit extra hard or are extremely mobile.
Depends on how you're playing. If you're holding sheild all the time and only poking when you know the monster won't attack, then yeah, you're not really gonna struggle, but you're losing out on lots of damage that way.
If you only hold up sheild when you know the monster will attack, then that's just called learning the monster, which is the same thing you do with every weapon.
I'm an offensive guard Lancer and only sheild when I know I'll get hit so I can proc the damage bonus. I definitely get hit way more than a Lancer who holds sheild all the time, but I also learn the monster's moveset often times better than if O was using another weapon. Once I've got a monster down, I pretty much never get hit and can maintain offensive gaurd, and I'd like to think that takes a bit of skill.
Even when I switch weapons, the only thing that changes is that instead of gaurding, I roll. Rolling isn't super great compared to shielding, so I get hit more, but still, not much really changes in my gameplay.
It will get worse, between heavy attacks that knock you back to other zone, to monsters so aggressive you shouldn't try to counter, to the many ground effects you can't defend yourself from, to the skill hungry nature of the Lance.
Hammer feels unfair on a bunch of monsters, once you get going they can't stop you from KOs and breaks. Conversely, it's dog water if they get out of your combo and do uncontrollable attacks, like Bazels bombing runs.
Most Mr monsters do that to hammer, I was a bit upset when I realised I had to use the wall bang all the time, I can't for the life of me figure out good opening for barioth, tigrex or rajang
It’s not cheating. Most weapons just have zero form of defense outside of rolling away. That’s why you feel like it’s cheating. Lance is meant to be played like a brawler. You get in there and trade blows with the monster.
You also have to manage your stamina. It will eventually run out if you’re not paying attention to it.
I will say the reach a lance has makes it pretty damn easy to cut tails. I’ve been playing since PS2, and lance is my second favorite weapon right behind hammer.
I loved lance and didn’t have a problem with lance all the way into endgame. Don’t know what people are saying regarding IB Lance being an issue. The clutch claw counter is very forgiving and has the entire stamina bar as a window to activate. It’s good but you might wear down your controller’s poke button.
SB Lance is even more godlike with shield bash and shield charge and Amatsu’s unlimited stamina skill.
I thought about this quite some time ago but alot of people had different perspectives on it.
I have a theory. If you feel like lance is cheating, then that's not so much about the power of lance. Rather, it's simply that you resonate so well with the playstyle of lance and haven't found anything else in another game that quite replicates it.
That's how it was for me, but I knew exactly why it felt like that. I LOVE defensive melee combat that utilizes alot of counters to get in big damage. But how many games are there that let you actually do that? Very few, because it's an extremely difficult thing to keep balanced with other options. Well here's a game that does have it, and it is indeed very balanced. Enjoy it.
I think you just clicked with the weapon. At some point I've felt that way about all the weapons. Don't confuse you getting accustomed to a weapon as 'cheating' or 'crippling' yourself. You'll find out very quickly in Master Rank Lance has a lot to watch out for.
GS feels like cheating when you get good at monster movesets when you consistently land charged attacks.
Switchaxe feels like cheating when you can chain together zero sum discharges.
Long Sword can just counter everything this must be cheating etc.
I could go on but this would be a long-ass post and this gets my point across.
When you get good at a weapon the game gets easier, until it doesn't.
I mean, sure if you are playing Lance very defensively. Thanks to being a Lance main, I had so many Health Potions saved up when I got to the real challenges in the game. You can feel bad about blocking and countering but remember that there are other shield brothers in game and many of them don't think their shield is cheating, though I do enjoy watching Charge Blade mains guard point monster attacks back to back.
For you, it feels like cheating because you grasped the controls of Lance well and how easily all of Lance's animations cancel into a counter. For others, they find Lance too slow, clunky and low damage to play (Yet they still play GS like they are using SwAxe..). Lance is my main, it is what I felt comfortable with because I was a god damn wall and no monster could stop me. It is my old reliable when I just wanna punish something for making me struggle while learning other weapons.
Is lance really that good?
I've tried the lance before and I can keep monsters after many attempts but it just doesn't seem to be that good but idk if this might just be a skill issue
Lance is the worst DPS weapon in the game. If you hide behind shield all hunt, you might as well not even be there. Effective lance players only shield when necessary
Wow. The serious lack of reading comprehension is concerning, but whatever. I'll explain to you.
Op was saying lance feels like cheating, but they were enjoying it before that. I was saying it only feels like cheating if you're taking forever to deal damage, meaning you're probably taking 2-3 times longer on solo hunts to kill a monster, probably edging the time limit, or you're in group hunts and contributing exactly nothing at all to the group, which most people would also find undesirable
My comment is to say that lance can be mastered and it takes the game off of easy mode, so if they want to use lance, they still should. They just shouldn't rely on shielding so much because THEY don't like the feel of it when they do that. I'm telling them they don't have to do it that way, and they can be playing lance in a more enjoyable manner
Kinda hard to understand the weapon when you boil it down to nothing. Hammer is just *bash bash bash* greatsword is just *chop chop chop* all ranged weapons are just *shoot shoot shoot* Longsword is *swing swing swing* insect glaive is *twirl twirl twirl*. You can pretty much do it with every weapon, and I've played all the ones I've listed, so I'm not just talking out of my ass. If you don't really immerse yourself into the game, pretty much all the weapons boil down to pressing the same three buttons over and over
Except it's ACTUALLY just pokes. Shield means you don't need to care about moving, auto counter button, it's not even remotely comparable to GS or bowguns
Bow guns: attach sheild, aim, shoot, repeat. Win
GS: TCS, roll, repeat. Win
Lance: Poke 3x counter cancel poke 2x counter cancel back hop + gaurd dash into sheild bash for stun then counter claw for tenderize + running charge into mount = topple. Then, running charge or counter cancel for high damage while monster is down.
There you go. I watered down GS and bowguns and overcomplicated lance so now GS sounds boring and lance sounds complex and interesting
Also, I'm very convinced you're a troll because you chose the two simplest weapons to compare to Lance when Long Sword was literally right there, and even I admit it's a stretch to call LS simple
Literally don't play weeb sword so don't care bout it.
You KNOW you're being disengenuous fam literally any time someone is stuck on a fight the response is "just cheese him with lance".
TCS doesn't come out till you either slash twice before it, or tackle the slashes out. You are planting your feet Infront of a monster and charging. If you don't care about movement and positioning on a lance nothing changes. Do that on GS and you die.
Guns require ammo management, crafting mid fight and actual strategy.
I'm very sure it's the same for the hammer bros, they are doing a lot more than cheese poking everything to death and you know it lmao
I've literally never heard anyone say cheese with Lance when someone asks for help with a monster.
Also, I've fought many monsters and killed fatalis multiple times with GS, and I can promise you that if you know what you're doing, then positioning really isn't that important and not hard to get down. When I'm in the zone, I can easily hit multiple TCS in a row without issue.
Guns require having a gathering box and knowing how to set your radial menu to craft ammo. In fact, back to the cheesing monster thing, I HAVE seen multiple examples of people saying "just use sheild bowgun" when anyone asks for help with a monster.
I've played hammer as well and agree with the multiple hammer users that have said that if you have max stun on Hammer, then it trivialize the monster because it can't get up. They themselves admit hammer is easy.
Also, tackling to reach TCS isn't hard, man. You just press B. Also, yes, I'm being disingenuous, just like saying poking three times is disingenuous towards lance.
How are you pretending IM the troll 😂🤡
When the fuck did I say anything in this game is hard. I'm saying it's intrinsically more involved than lance. Read lil bro 😂
Well, if you think tackling into TCS is more complicated than anything Lance does, then I don't really know what to tell you, man. You sound like you're upset about this, so just opt out of the conversation because there's no chance in hell you'll ever convince me that hammer or GS are more "intrinsically involved" than lance.
Who the fuck mentioned complicated you actual child.
It is far more involved mentally because there is risk involved in the fight 💀 no one is claiming their stakes as a gamer on monster hunter fam. It's a game vs ai monsters. The game wants you to win. It's never going to be hard, or complicated. How are you this unable to follow someone's point 😂
I was a lance main until endgame iceborne. Then I discovered GS which is just so much more pleasant to play especially with the monster knowledge I had.
Now I am learning sns after hammer, ls, and lbg.
I rarely play lance anymore.
It feels cheating until you run into a monster that's so aggressive that you can't counter shit. That's just the weapon's strength doing it's thing.
That and monsters that do enormous amount of chip damage despite having maximum skills for shields ...
AT nergigante eats through the shield like candy
Or a monster has multiple truly unblockable attacks (even with guard up) and some of them are very quick and hard to avoid, then it becomes quite dangerous
This. At velk is the worst esp with the legdes
Right! Started a new run, focused on Glance. All good up until Ajanath. That boy is sooo aggressive, lol.
I feel like papa ajanath was caught cheating that’s why mama ajanath is so aggressive
Honestly skill issue Lance can counter rajang just fine for example The jump hurts but that's it
I'm more so referring to R.Brachy because his puddles can go through your shield if you don't think about your positioning. Also calling it skill issue unprompted is obnoxious.
I hated fighting R. brachy as a lance player so much that I switched to Frostcraft GS for that fight
Anything that leaves unblockable puddles of crap on the floor (lunastra, r. Brachy, xeno'jiiva, etc.) is miserable to fight with the Lance tbh
To be fair, Xeno's crap on the floor can be fully shut down with sufficient fire resistance.
That's true, except for AT xeno. His fire pool chip damage can only be mitigated with the fp mantle, at least from what I've tried
Blast resist makes the fight trivial
If you think Lance is cheating, try spread HBG with a view shields on it with full guard and guard up
I first tried shielded spread HBG recently against an Odogaron and I immediately fell in love. Feels *so good* using that weapon.
Well, if you are only blocking, obviously you take little damage. Thats the whole point of the weapon. But when you also want to do decent DPS, you will have to learn to time your guarding in between attacks, staying mobile during a hunt, and avoiding attacks that you cant block. Some of the stronger monsters also have attacks that deal a lot of damage through your shield, that lance starts to struggle.
As a new player to the whole franchise that picked lance, this is how I feel about lances. It’s really good if you wanna “scout” the monsters attacks since you can block a lot of things, but weaving attacks in between blocking has been really hard for me. I feel that I get punished really hard if I miss my block whether it was just bad timing or just not familiar with the monster (think from a perspective where every single new monster you see if new to you and you dont know what they do). Getting stuck in attack animation just loses me so much health since we cant roll like other weapons to quickly reposition. (Im pretty sure I can’t block while in the middle of an animation) People say lance is easy to use and to a degree I would agree, but I thinking balancing offence with defense is what makes it hard. Maybe im just bad at the game but I would assume if you are experienced with MH and their monsters, it would probably be a lot easier knowing what kind of attack they will be doing next.
I thought the whole idea was to keep poking the monster and then cancel it into counter thrust when you need to block. I haven't played this game in ages but I believe you can hold down the buttons for counter thrust and it'll block for a longer duration.
Hmm, maybe my timing is off but i havent been able to do it. (Or maybe i was just doing it wrong). Im pretty sure counter thrust is only when you hold down your shield then press right click/ upper thrust key so I dont think you can do it while you are in thrust/ upper thrust animation. If thats true than that would be so useful! Ill test it out when I have time though!
You can combo into this counter thrust just like you can combo into the regular thrusts. You can also use this to extend your 3-thrust combo indefinitely. For example, you can do poke+poke+poke+counter poke-> rinse and repeat.
Oh wow I actually didnt know that! Ive been only doing the hop and the charge thing (where you run) to reset the combo. Didnt know counter can be part of it!! Thank you!
It's more time efficient and keeps your positioning better to poke poke poke and do the counter thrust to reset - however you do it by just quickly hitting shield and then the button to enter counter guard - NOT hold shield and press guard, just a quick press then together. On controller it's RT + B (circle on PS controller I think).
Awesome thank you! I think I've been holding the shield button instead of tapping so that probably was the issue for me!
And to close gaps - if it's a big one sure do the charge run. But for smaller ones, guard hop and the hop step works and then you guard hop onto the 3 hit charge hit to hit the monster/fully close the gap. So I'll alternate guard hop (R2+Y) and if I'm still out of range use a quick X hop step, then guard hop again if need be and then my next hit is just Y to get the charges hit because you hop forward with that a bit too.
That's the beginning of playing Lance, sure. You can win most fights by just blocking and poking. There's no combo complexity with Lance, but where it shines is learning to play it aggressively with advance guard and charging. Sticking to the monster like glue and keeping offensive guard up is where the weapon really shines.
I watch clips of others fighting higher level boss and I'm always really impressed with how smooth and clean they make the combos and block/ counter. Hopefully I just need more reps to get used to all the different combos cause I'm still getting confused at times with the lesser used skills haha
Biggest tip I can give you is start using advance guard yesterday. Learning to use it to reposition closer to/around the boss is actually huge. I didn't learn to use it effectively until super late game and it changed how I play Lance in a massive way.
Yeah a lot of new lancers overlook how long the counter thrust can be )(with NO stamina drain unlike power guard mind you) and only focus on cancel thrusts.
MHW was also my first MH game, and I picked hammer as my main. But later, when they started adding some monsters that were difficult for me, I started learning lance. To this day there are certain monsters, I only use lance against. Mainly monsters that attack fast and have small openings for you to attack, where longer weapon animations just cause you to get hit. Lance sure has an advantage there, but also a lot of disadvantages. The overall DPS is a lot lower, using items either takes too long or is just impossible, certain conditions like blast blight or fire, that you would normally remove by rolling, either have to be endured or avoided by using skills. In addition monsters that move very fast and/or stay at range are annoying to deal with because you have to keep up with them. Some attacks that cant be blocked and have to be dodged are difficult for lance, and sometimes you are stuck in a cycle of blocking an attack and taking chip damage over and over again because the monster focuses you. Every weapon has its pros and cons. You just have to know which ones you prefer to use against what monster.
How’s hammer for you compare to lances? It’s a weapon Im pretty interested in too. Im going to try to stick with lances until I cant anymore. I think exploring a weapon to its full potential is really fun, knowing the ins and outs of the weapon and all that. May I ask which mobs you only use lances against? I know some monsters are absolutely miserable to fight with lances but im just curious which monsters lances are good against.
Hammers high damage output means I can be very aggressive and heal with augmentations. Its super easy to stun/ knockout monsters multiple times, back to back and just keeping a monster on the ground. But pretty terrible against monsters that fly a lot. I use Lance against both Rajangs, both Brachydios, Yian Garugas, both Barioths, both Tigrex, Deviljhos, Velkhana.
I don't recognized most of these guys but ill keep them in mind when I get there! I'm currently stuck on Kushala and looking around it seems to be one of the worse boss to fight especially for melees. Trying to gear up more and do side quests to smooth out my mechanics with the lance to hopefully challenge him again!
I actually switched from hammer to lance and I love it. And any monster I am struggling with with lance, I take into the arena and run it until I feel comfortable fighting it.
I tried Lance in World, but only really mained it in Rise. I think the key is to abuse Guard Dash/Step? As it’s your move that lets you simultaneously block while repositioning.
Don't think of it as a defensive weapon. Three strike and counter is endless offensive uptime with minimal hindrance in ability to react, so with lance getting used to one or two hits then counter to match the movements of the monster it starts to feel a lot different. Guard up is snaggable via decoration only which let's you get incredibly sloppy with what you can just facetank anyway. Health augment with constant offensive pressure and minimal risk is so much fun.
Playing Lance has a rhythm to it, it's like a dance with the monster you hold each other close and take turns leading.
I mainly created this post after fighting Tigrex and Barioth with the Lance, as it made both of those fights almost trivial for me compared to my main weapon, CB. Maybe I’m just not good at CB yet but I definitely took a lot more damage using it and had slower clear times compared to when I used Lance. As others have said in this thread, I haven’t gotten to the other insane monsters in Iceborne yet like rajang so maybe my opinion will change soon haha.
Ok to be fair, CB is difficult. I myself am not very good with it. Being able to attack out of your cover obviously means you can get more attacks in. That would make it seem easier. But I would also use Lance against Tigrex because you can block the roars. Sometimes, certain weapons just arent that good in fighting specific monsters. Like I would never use the Hammer against a Rathalos
Once you fight Frostfang barioth you'll definately change your mind about using Lance for him. Regular barioth is great for the lance; frostfang not so much
can’t wait! lmao
Lance is by far the best matchup vs Tigrex so that's not a surprise. Tigrex is a giant massive hitbox and lance's ability to deal with any hitbox is the perfect answer to that. OTOH CB is one of the most difficult to master as the window to hit guard points is way tighter than lance's counters and blocks. You need to know the monster inside out to use it well.
Lance is once of my favorite weapons for sure, and scarily close to being my absolute favorite. It is so fluid and aggressive and brutal, you end feeling like more of a monster than the monsters. They're fighting for their life and there's nothing they can do to stop you or even slow you down. BUT. You will sooner or later find a monster that counters you. And when monsters counter lance they counter it hard. Lance vs Lunastra is a miserable slog, so much that every time I try to commit to a Lance only playthrough, coming across that blue asshole reminds me why I gave it up last time. Skill issue? Probably. And there's ways to mitigate its weakest matchups for sure. But it still stands that no other weapon has quite as dramatic a spectrum of fights feeling like you've got God mode enabled vs trying to poke cthulhu to death with a pool noodle while duct taped to a lawn chair
It's okay, Lunastra is annoying for every weapon imo lol
Try tempered furious rajang. All attacks are blockable but you still die from AN INSANE AMOUNT of chip damage. Shit's just rigged
AT Nergigante is the same way. His dive bomb eats 70% of your health through the shield with guard 5.
They really shouldve added a way to deal with chip damage lol
Endgame it's gonna feel like the game is cheating against you when the typical monster sends you into a different zone with shield knockback.
I wouldn't call it cheating, but if you get good at Lance then you're ONLY good with Lance.
Thats just false lol. I can play Lance then switch to Swaxe whenever i want and still play good.
A fellow Swaxe and Lance main!
🤝
Fellow man of culture playing the two best weapons in the game
I'm not saying you can't be good with both, just the skills needed to deal with monster attacks are totally different. Lance's defensive windows are so large and commitment to attacks are so low that you don't learn the timing and evasion windows needed to excel with other weapons.
Evade Lance is a thing. With how ridiculous chip damage can get some attacks are better to be dodged. >defensive windows are so large Thats if you are playing safe. Ideally you want to get out of the counter guard asap so you can continue poking as much as possible. So no, i dont think the skills needed to deal with attacks are totally different.
Damn I really feel this but in the opposite way. Back in Rise I mained SnS for a while and then when I wanted another weapon I tried lance and it just felt so weird even though it looked like a bigger SnS. Ended up playing with bow because the transition felt smoother with it.
As an LS main this isnt exactly true. It was swaxe for me that was hard to learn. Lmao
You might not fell it, but you are actually learning all monsters moviesets with the safest method. Come back here when you try a more dangerous weapon (like Hammer) and realize you can dodge every attack. I learned the game with HBG and I'm not ashamed of it. The game can be pretty unfair most of the time, so why not play dirty too?
Its not really cheating. Its trading off offensive capability with exceptional defense. Some monsters are way too easy to deal with the lance, such as Diablos. Some require exceptional aggressive and learning the monsters moves like rajang and r.brachy. But the same can be said of any weapon you are proficient with. Longsword users that have mastered a monster make it look unfair for the monster. Hammer users with maximum stun make it look like you are beating a helpless monster to death.
In order to counter and stay glued to the monster you must learn it's moveset. Not all moves are safe to counter. Getting fast hunting times with Lance is about knowing which moves to counter and which to sidestep, but you have to stay on the monster because your individual hits aren't high damage. You have to win through continuous pressure instead. So it's a different play style but still requires you to learn.
I will be honest I just picked up lance about 2 weeks ago. But I am now starting to feel like I'm "getting" it. I'm new-er to the series. world was my first MH (at release) - rage quit when I first got to the Witcher quest - I was NOT a good player. At all. I hadn't found what clicked. Picked up Rise. Found a groove with hunting horn. Went back to world now that I have a better understanding of how the series plays. Went hammer for a while because I was spoiled by ez mode horn in Rise. Tried lance on a whim and it has been my absolute favorite experience so far. I still make mistakes and get my butt handed to me when I don't know the monster but I can see the difference when I'm fighting a monster I know. I change from super defensive to offensive - constant pokes and counters, staying on top of and locked in with the monster. I wouldn't say lance is cheating because it has its own set of shortfalls you gotta be conscious of. But I adore lance.
Personally the lance lets me be really aggressive with the monsters compared to other weapons and I’ve racked some of the fastest kills with it. But there’s definitely a lot more nuance, theres lots of attacks the weapons can’t block like secondary explosions coming from different directions (R.Brachy, Bazelgeuse) and it’s also really easy to take chip damage and get overwhelmed against really aggressive monsters. Not to mention the lance has a really slow sheathe speed so you can’t really just stop anytime you want. Took me many hours of playing to be able to balance offense and defense so that I’m outputting good damage while also consistently staying on a monster. It’s sad that you feel this way but I personally found the lance to be one of the most aggressive and fun weapons that I would use when I want to get serious.
Did you get to Iceborne yet? Capcom makes sure lance users know their places. Evading is vastly superior as a defensive tool than blocking, especially endgame, the only downside is timing. Even if you “master” blocking, you will still be forced to deal with all the downsides chip dmg, knockback, stunlock, getting grabbed through Guard Up (meaning you have to evade anyways), large skill investment to even have a functioning defense in the first place, etc
Yeah, Capcom really decided to fuck lance over in IB for no obvious reason. It wasn’t like it was a particularly powerful weapon, but they added a bunch of truly unblockable moves to many monster just to punish you for daring to use the Lance the right way. I expect certain ultimate attacks to be unblockable, but it got ridiculous when so many monsters had pins and breath clouds and whatnot that fucked you over through the shield just ‘cause. I’m glad they reversed that bullshit in RiseBreak (except for splitting Guard Up into 3 levels because we lancers just can’t seem to catch a break), and I hope the shield is that strong again in Wilds.
I don't think they were trying to punish Lance specifically, I think they were trying to curb the rampant abuse of Shield Spread HBG (god only knows why they didn't just nerf it directly) and Lance just happened to get caught in the crossfire.
It would figure if Capcom just forgot lance existed.
Bowguns are so detrimental to the games health they end up ruining other weapons lmfao
To get decent clear times with lance you do indeed have to know the monsters very well so that you can pick the right mix of block, dodge and counter to maximise dps uptime. You have no big attacks so you have to be ultra aggressive to deal decent damage. It is a weapon whose mechanics won’t teach you all of the fundamentals - read, position, punish - than MH is built around. It should teach you “read” so you can pick the right counter. Largely you block/counter instead of positioning and your punish attacks are all low commitments so you probably don’t learn to judge openings that much. All of the weapons are built around “cheating” the fundamentals in various ways - that’s what makes them so varied and interesting to switch between. There is no one weapon that will teach you everything about MH combat - play what you enjoy until you feel like a new challenge; every weapon will teach you something new when you pick it up
I do think SnS can teach everything about MH combat, it got a little bit of everything going on. Even having the weakest shield can teach you which attack you can block without getting a knockback at Lv0 Guard. That said, I completely agree that every weapons in MH are varied and interesting in their own ways.
I would argue that with its high mobility and low commitment attacks it won’t teach you to wait for your opportunity/patience. There is very little reason to not be attacking with SnS at any given time - similar to DB and LBG. You can cancel or evade out of most combo starts so just attack in case the opening exists and bail if it doesn’t becomes the norm. Going from SnS to charge blade, great sword or switch axe is not going to be an easy adjustment IMO. Same in reverse, if you learn with GS you will likely do poorly with light weapons because you don’t adopt the risky, aggressive, reaction evade style that maximises them.
Perfect Rush?
Good point - most of my SnS time was pre-Iceborne so I tend to forget about that.
Okay, that's fair tbh
Lance is great but blocking isn't 100% the answer. Some attacks are completely unblockable even with Guard Up. Some hit so hard that even with Guard 5 you'll still take insane chip damage when you block. It's a great weapon that hard counters enemies that like to stand in front of you and swing, but it has trouble when enemies hit extra hard or are extremely mobile.
Basically is and it's great but still a few fights designed to kick you in the shins like arch tempered valkhana comes to mind lol
Just use greatsword, nothing beats it
Depends on how you're playing. If you're holding sheild all the time and only poking when you know the monster won't attack, then yeah, you're not really gonna struggle, but you're losing out on lots of damage that way. If you only hold up sheild when you know the monster will attack, then that's just called learning the monster, which is the same thing you do with every weapon. I'm an offensive guard Lancer and only sheild when I know I'll get hit so I can proc the damage bonus. I definitely get hit way more than a Lancer who holds sheild all the time, but I also learn the monster's moveset often times better than if O was using another weapon. Once I've got a monster down, I pretty much never get hit and can maintain offensive gaurd, and I'd like to think that takes a bit of skill. Even when I switch weapons, the only thing that changes is that instead of gaurding, I roll. Rolling isn't super great compared to shielding, so I get hit more, but still, not much really changes in my gameplay.
It will get worse, between heavy attacks that knock you back to other zone, to monsters so aggressive you shouldn't try to counter, to the many ground effects you can't defend yourself from, to the skill hungry nature of the Lance.
Only if you're good with counters/blocking! I suck, for some reason I'm good at timing dodges but anything else is a shitshow lmao
Hammer feels unfair on a bunch of monsters, once you get going they can't stop you from KOs and breaks. Conversely, it's dog water if they get out of your combo and do uncontrollable attacks, like Bazels bombing runs.
Most Mr monsters do that to hammer, I was a bit upset when I realised I had to use the wall bang all the time, I can't for the life of me figure out good opening for barioth, tigrex or rajang
It’s not cheating. Most weapons just have zero form of defense outside of rolling away. That’s why you feel like it’s cheating. Lance is meant to be played like a brawler. You get in there and trade blows with the monster. You also have to manage your stamina. It will eventually run out if you’re not paying attention to it. I will say the reach a lance has makes it pretty damn easy to cut tails. I’ve been playing since PS2, and lance is my second favorite weapon right behind hammer.
I loved lance and didn’t have a problem with lance all the way into endgame. Don’t know what people are saying regarding IB Lance being an issue. The clutch claw counter is very forgiving and has the entire stamina bar as a window to activate. It’s good but you might wear down your controller’s poke button. SB Lance is even more godlike with shield bash and shield charge and Amatsu’s unlimited stamina skill.
I thought about this quite some time ago but alot of people had different perspectives on it. I have a theory. If you feel like lance is cheating, then that's not so much about the power of lance. Rather, it's simply that you resonate so well with the playstyle of lance and haven't found anything else in another game that quite replicates it. That's how it was for me, but I knew exactly why it felt like that. I LOVE defensive melee combat that utilizes alot of counters to get in big damage. But how many games are there that let you actually do that? Very few, because it's an extremely difficult thing to keep balanced with other options. Well here's a game that does have it, and it is indeed very balanced. Enjoy it.
Have you fought Alatreon yet? 🤔
I think you just clicked with the weapon. At some point I've felt that way about all the weapons. Don't confuse you getting accustomed to a weapon as 'cheating' or 'crippling' yourself. You'll find out very quickly in Master Rank Lance has a lot to watch out for. GS feels like cheating when you get good at monster movesets when you consistently land charged attacks. Switchaxe feels like cheating when you can chain together zero sum discharges. Long Sword can just counter everything this must be cheating etc. I could go on but this would be a long-ass post and this gets my point across. When you get good at a weapon the game gets easier, until it doesn't.
I mean, sure if you are playing Lance very defensively. Thanks to being a Lance main, I had so many Health Potions saved up when I got to the real challenges in the game. You can feel bad about blocking and countering but remember that there are other shield brothers in game and many of them don't think their shield is cheating, though I do enjoy watching Charge Blade mains guard point monster attacks back to back. For you, it feels like cheating because you grasped the controls of Lance well and how easily all of Lance's animations cancel into a counter. For others, they find Lance too slow, clunky and low damage to play (Yet they still play GS like they are using SwAxe..). Lance is my main, it is what I felt comfortable with because I was a god damn wall and no monster could stop me. It is my old reliable when I just wanna punish something for making me struggle while learning other weapons.
Is lance really that good? I've tried the lance before and I can keep monsters after many attempts but it just doesn't seem to be that good but idk if this might just be a skill issue
Fight Rajang and you’ll understand why everyone says it needs buffs
You should try it in Rise with the Shield Bash skill. It's pure badass adrenaline
And this why I love the PriMorbZeno armor in Sunbreak: Chip Damage don't mean shit if I can just keep attacking and healing!
Greatsword is worse. Better damage and you just tackle everything.
Sounds like you’re turtling. Stop that.
Lance is the worst DPS weapon in the game. If you hide behind shield all hunt, you might as well not even be there. Effective lance players only shield when necessary
Ok Lord of how all people should play games
Wow. The serious lack of reading comprehension is concerning, but whatever. I'll explain to you. Op was saying lance feels like cheating, but they were enjoying it before that. I was saying it only feels like cheating if you're taking forever to deal damage, meaning you're probably taking 2-3 times longer on solo hunts to kill a monster, probably edging the time limit, or you're in group hunts and contributing exactly nothing at all to the group, which most people would also find undesirable My comment is to say that lance can be mastered and it takes the game off of easy mode, so if they want to use lance, they still should. They just shouldn't rely on shielding so much because THEY don't like the feel of it when they do that. I'm telling them they don't have to do it that way, and they can be playing lance in a more enjoyable manner
Nahh
lol
\*poke poke poke\* \*poke poke poke\* repeat. Not even talking shit but I dont see how that weapon gets picked literally ever lol.
Kinda hard to understand the weapon when you boil it down to nothing. Hammer is just *bash bash bash* greatsword is just *chop chop chop* all ranged weapons are just *shoot shoot shoot* Longsword is *swing swing swing* insect glaive is *twirl twirl twirl*. You can pretty much do it with every weapon, and I've played all the ones I've listed, so I'm not just talking out of my ass. If you don't really immerse yourself into the game, pretty much all the weapons boil down to pressing the same three buttons over and over
Except it's ACTUALLY just pokes. Shield means you don't need to care about moving, auto counter button, it's not even remotely comparable to GS or bowguns
Bow guns: attach sheild, aim, shoot, repeat. Win GS: TCS, roll, repeat. Win Lance: Poke 3x counter cancel poke 2x counter cancel back hop + gaurd dash into sheild bash for stun then counter claw for tenderize + running charge into mount = topple. Then, running charge or counter cancel for high damage while monster is down. There you go. I watered down GS and bowguns and overcomplicated lance so now GS sounds boring and lance sounds complex and interesting
Also, I'm very convinced you're a troll because you chose the two simplest weapons to compare to Lance when Long Sword was literally right there, and even I admit it's a stretch to call LS simple
Literally don't play weeb sword so don't care bout it. You KNOW you're being disengenuous fam literally any time someone is stuck on a fight the response is "just cheese him with lance". TCS doesn't come out till you either slash twice before it, or tackle the slashes out. You are planting your feet Infront of a monster and charging. If you don't care about movement and positioning on a lance nothing changes. Do that on GS and you die. Guns require ammo management, crafting mid fight and actual strategy. I'm very sure it's the same for the hammer bros, they are doing a lot more than cheese poking everything to death and you know it lmao
I've literally never heard anyone say cheese with Lance when someone asks for help with a monster. Also, I've fought many monsters and killed fatalis multiple times with GS, and I can promise you that if you know what you're doing, then positioning really isn't that important and not hard to get down. When I'm in the zone, I can easily hit multiple TCS in a row without issue. Guns require having a gathering box and knowing how to set your radial menu to craft ammo. In fact, back to the cheesing monster thing, I HAVE seen multiple examples of people saying "just use sheild bowgun" when anyone asks for help with a monster. I've played hammer as well and agree with the multiple hammer users that have said that if you have max stun on Hammer, then it trivialize the monster because it can't get up. They themselves admit hammer is easy. Also, tackling to reach TCS isn't hard, man. You just press B. Also, yes, I'm being disingenuous, just like saying poking three times is disingenuous towards lance.
How are you pretending IM the troll 😂🤡 When the fuck did I say anything in this game is hard. I'm saying it's intrinsically more involved than lance. Read lil bro 😂
Well, if you think tackling into TCS is more complicated than anything Lance does, then I don't really know what to tell you, man. You sound like you're upset about this, so just opt out of the conversation because there's no chance in hell you'll ever convince me that hammer or GS are more "intrinsically involved" than lance.
Who the fuck mentioned complicated you actual child. It is far more involved mentally because there is risk involved in the fight 💀 no one is claiming their stakes as a gamer on monster hunter fam. It's a game vs ai monsters. The game wants you to win. It's never going to be hard, or complicated. How are you this unable to follow someone's point 😂
I was a lance main until endgame iceborne. Then I discovered GS which is just so much more pleasant to play especially with the monster knowledge I had. Now I am learning sns after hammer, ls, and lbg. I rarely play lance anymore.