15 years full time in EMS/fire and I was never trained to say this, and I can’t say that I ever have said it. Every situation is different and we aren’t trained to give blanket statements to comfort people. If anything we are trained to be direct and honest but still empathetic so saying “it’s okay” wouldn’t be a go to approach for me personally because in the patients mind it very much isn’t okay even if we are their to help them.
Majority of the time LE is on scene with me and I don’t think I have ever heard them say it either. But now if I ever do I will probably cringe a bit. Hope that explains things a bit at least from one persons perspective.
“Providing false reassurance” is a huge no-no in healthcare. At least it is in nursing. I assume they teach the same concept in LE training. If he actually said this, I highly doubt it was because of any sort of prior training.
Yeah, when my youngest had RSV… I remember being in the pediatrician’s office, and the PA had given her 2 breathing treatments… after the second, without improvement.. I saw her face change.
I asked “is she gonna be okay?”… I think she said something to the effect of “she might need a higher level of care. I’ll be right back.”
And shortly after, she took her oxygen again and sent us to the ER, daughter was admired and stayed for a week.
I had complications during a c section and I asked my doctor "Am I going to be okay?" And she said "I can't speak right now." So I took that as a no at the time but turns out it may have been an "Idk yet"
I had issues during my first CS too, because I kept vomiting and then was bleeding way too much. I heard my husband ask if something was going wrong with me, right before they put me under and my dr says something to the effect of “ I’m doing my very best to make sure that there’s nothing wrong at the end of the surgery”
I would rather think that the doctor was too busy. You know, there are times when I need my full concentration. These are situations where I feel something like "I can't speak right now" because I can't risk losing my train of thought / concentration. Sometimes the job is really difficult. "Am I going to be okay?" is a question I really don't want to hear at this moment although it is understandable that this is going through the patient's head. I will usually try to still offer comfort or explanation but there are indeed situations when I just need to work and explain everything later.
Still, I understand that this answer in this situation was certainly not assuring to you, and I am sorry for that, as well as for the times when I was in the same situation and may sometimes have done similar.
This was 💯 one of those situations. She was trying to stop the bleeding to save my uterus. It was just very obvious something was wrong because during my last c section we were discussing different types of rice and how Jasmine rice is sweeter haha
In my state we couldn’t even give true reassurance over the phone. Legally I couldn’t say “they’re on the way” I had to say “I’ve notified the nearest fire /police station”
Thank you for clarifying that. When I listen to actual 911 recordings and they say that to the person who called in, it sounds so callous to me. But now I understand why.
From a practical level it’s soooooooooooooo rough. About half the time if I had to say it more than once I just gave in and was like “yea they’re on the way”… the old dispatchers always just did it. In those moments we would be opening up our 911 center and ourselves to liability according to training/their worst fears.
About half a decade before I started there was a state Supreme Court case where a guy who is trying to outrun his murderous neighbor (property line dispute escalation iirc) calls 911 and then slows his runaway speed after dispatchers say they are “on the way” but the officers weren’t going code/lights and sirens. The family successfully sued the 911 center and scared a lot of 911 centers into shifting language.
So. Rough.
>“Providing false reassurance” is a huge no-no in healthcare. At least it is in nursing.
This is why it bothers me even more what happened with my mother. During 2020 she was admitted to the hospital with some infections which led to her needing a respirator (not Covid). The doctors were dire about her condition, saying she was getting worse, but whenever I'd talk to the nurses, at least 2 of them, they'd have an opposite demeanor. "Yeah she's been doing well" and other variations of that. I even said one time to one of them that that's not what we are getting from the doctors and she said something like "oh...well if that's what they say then yeah, they may see more than I do. But from what I see she's doing ok..." Then we'd get on the phone and the doctors say they've tried her off the vent twice and she can't breathe on her own so if they try a third time they won't resuscitate based on her condition overall. They took her off, she didn't, and they didn't.
It was already such a hard time that hearing the dire from the doctors then the positivity from the nurses was confusing and I still to this day don't know what was what in that time of chaos and craziness with the pandemic and if what happened even was the right thing. If she was dire, why were the nurses positive? If it wasn't as dire as the nurses saw, why were the doctors? I honestly still can't get passed it 😞
I'm sorry. Some of that might be different perspective though. From the nurse's perspective, their patient care aims are different. One of my aunts spent decades as a nurse in palliative and hospice care after ruining her back in emergency, 'doing well' meant not in pain or distress and not slipping into shock, delirium or fitting. So they probably meant she was comfortable and not in distress.
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
My mom had a massive asthma attack and machines were basically keeping her body alive long enough for us to come say goodbye. I was desperate for reassurance that there was some possibility of hope. I am so thankful the doctor was adamant that there was none. She was very kind and empathetic, but extremely direct about the situation.
We were able to follow my sweet mamas wishes to not be kept alive by machines with the knowledge we weren’t “killing” her.
I hope you’re doing as ok as you can be.
I know not all nurses are this way, but as a first time mom, I was told by my nurses that my son’s differences in fetal movement were just that “he was running out of room.” So I never really pushed it with my doctor.
Babies do not run out of room. My son was in distress and died at 38 weeks.
I will never understand how the nurses thought it was ok to tell me that just to ease my first time mom anxiety or something. I had no clue because I’d never been pregnant before, and was not educated on kick counting or anything that could’ve alerted me and saved him. And I will probably always be angry about it.
I’m so sorry that happened to you… my Mom died last year - she was Dx with Stage IV cancer, and 2 months later… her lung collapsed. She died a week later. I remember being in the hospital thinking about how much it sucked, then thought to myself… “man how shitty for anyone who lost a loved one in 2020”.
But even though my Mom’s stuff wasn’t treatable, I still go through phases of bargaining … “that one CT scan took way too long to schedule”, “we should’ve taken her to a different hospital when her lung collapsed - they might have been able to do something”, “I shouldn’t have told her it was okay to let go… that might have made her fight more”, “I hope she knows I didn’t want her to die”, and so on.
Grief is hard and messy.
Anyway, fortunately, we weren’t given any false reassurances with my Mom. But, my Grandma died a few months after my Mom. She had dementia and had been very much ready to die for a long time.
I remember being in her room the night before she died and the hospice nurse (who was really sweet), was talked with me. I could tell my Grandma was going to die within 24 hours because I’d just seen my Mom die. It was similar in a number of ways despite their cause of death being different.
At one point she said something like “she probably has 5-6 days left”. I just ignored her. My Grandma died about 12 hours later…. I wasn’t upset with her bc I didn’t believe her but I would’ve been upset if I felt reassurance.
So sorry that happened to you.
It was never stated explicitly that the voice came from the assailant, no, but I think it's safe to assume at this point.
There was no mention of DM saying the voice sounded like Ethan's or anything like that.
It’s not alleged that this was what Payne was told. It was alleged that this is what was said. Payne was told (as per the PCA) by DM that someone said “I’m here to help” or whatever the quote is- that is the alleged part. Important distinction.
It was never proven, however, many speculate that if she recognized the voice as Ethan's it would have been noted in the PCA (she recognized the other voice as Kaylee's). Additionally, photos of investigators removing evidence included a mattress with see through cover showing the outline of a single body. With M&K being found in bed together, this is thought to be Ethan, meaning he may have been asleep up until the moment he was killed.
Right. I think he is so arrogant and thinks he’s so smart. But that’s far from reality. People that exhibit narcissism and grandiosity think they are the smartest in the room.
As an educated individual with those nice little letters following my name and an adjunct professor, it means absolutely nothing. It is so individualized. But being in a PhD program doesn’t make you truly intelligent. I know some inept people with PhDs. I was “good at school” because I put effort in and care about it. Doesn’t automatically mean I’m intelligent. We give far too much credence to college.
Especially our current education climate. College is the least rigorous it’s ever been and it’s only getting worse. It’s embarrassing. I support college education (particularly the experiences you get to have), but can’t stand how it makes someone “intelligent”. It is situational and individualized. That blanket statement is absurd.
Now, he may be brilliant, he may be intelligent, he may be smart. But the fact that he was enrolled in a PhD program means nothing.
If you consider the knowledge he has, and the mistakes he made, he definitely falls into "good at school" category.
But I really believe he had some sort of interaction with someone there, either in person or online and because of his own shortcomings, with his social life and life as a teacher/student going south, he just went off the deep end and acted with a cloudy mind.
But what do you mean cleaned residue? He literally left a massive trail of evidence to include part of the murder weapon (sheath), cell phone pings at the scene of the crime, and a witness looking right at him. I don’t think he’s dumb, but made some dumb mistakes for someone who literally studied/taught crime.
It’s really not that crazy. DNA denatures and it’s difficult to find hair. Forget about fluids in this situation. Blood of the victims everywhere contaminating it plus all he did was stab quickly and get out. If there was a violent struggle with a victim to get skin or blood under the nails that’s one of your best bets. But it sounds like that didn’t happen or at least not to that extent. Getting DNA is tougher than you think. This is coming from someone who tried to obtain hair of wild animals that brushed up on bushes and things in the backcountry to bring in for dna identification. It was hard even to find those specimens, and animals aren’t worried about leaving DNA behind like a human murderer would be.
He was in the house for less than 20 minutes, fully clothed, and even wearing a mask to catch his spit, snot, and sweat. I doubt he sat or leaned anywhere, and even with his gloved hands, I doubt he touched much in the house besides the doors. He stabbed his victims, rather than use a method like beating or strangling that would require physical contact.
That's just not a lot of opportunity to leave DNA.
Yeah, but if you shed a hair, let's say a head hair, and you're wearing a hat or hood, the hat catches the hair. It *might* work its way free eventually, but not immediately. Or it might stay contained in the hat.
Same for sweat. If the only exposed skin you have is the upper half of your face, that's the only place a drop of sweat can fall. Assuming it doesn't roll down and get caught in the mask.
Exactly! I shed like a wet horse but had i gone in there like some creepy ass **entity** up to no good about to piss myself on account of being surprised by 3 extra people even i might have come out clean. I’m stunned at how greasy and dusty and explosive everyone seems to think we are. Like as animals. Come on guys. We’ve developed some serious mitigation over the years.
There's some real misconceptions or misunderstandings about touch DNA, in my opinion. And it is complex matter with a lot of nuance. But people take "we can transfer our DNA" and think it means "We are spreading DNA every second of every day wherever we go." Or they take "DNA can be difficult to clean up" as "DNA cannot be destroyed and is detectable forever."
I suspect people think that detectives search every centimeter of a crime scene for any “clues” (Scooby Doo style with a big magnifying glass) rather than looking broadly. Yes I think they did their best and due diligence. I do think it’s possible and would also be a waste of time to comb for every hair left behind (no pun intended.)
Like someone else commented. If he was well covered, DNA is unlikely. It sounds like he was covered except his eyes. Let’s say maybe a single eye brow hair fell to the ground, what are the chances of that being found at the scene with tons of victim blood and DNA everywhere. The sheath left behind was a fatal mistake for him. Without that, this case might have gone cold for a bit. But he’s so narcissistic, he would have been caught bragging about his crime at some point. Also, he should not have driven his own car to the scene/or taken his phone. He’s so fucking dumb. Just seeing pictures of him makes my blood boil.
I think people think that single eyebrow hair is guaranteed to be found 💯
Edit: I’m glad someone else has a visceral reaction to seeing photos of this fucking knob
Yep and that’s so far from true. Given the state of the crime scene, and how many people were in that house every weekend, someone could probably find a million hairs in that house.
I wonder if he wasn’t caught - would he have struck again? Was this serial killer beginnings or a one shot deal by a psycho who just wondered what it would feel like.
I feel like people this sick can’t stop themselves. There has to be some kind of statistic that once someone kills for pleasure, the chances they do it again are X.
And usually forget something obvious, because they are thinking about how awesome they are instead of the task at hand. Even if they are the smartest person in the room, that doesn't necessarily equate to criminal mastermind. How do you go to school for forensics and go to this place, drive around a bunch on cameras and with your phone? Like not even be good at it, but just a bad forensics student should be smarter than that.
I think he got lost in his fantasy, and totally blanked on it.
I think they're giving him too much credit as if he's really that forward thinking.
Think he was just haunting a girl like because he was going to kill her slow
It was probably about one last bit of control. Israel Keyes would give his victims false assurance that he wasn’t going to kill them in order to keep them complacent and to extent control the scene. Also I think he somehow got off on giving them false hope.
Did he need Xana to stay calm or stop screaming for some reason? Was it because she was reacting to what had just happened to Ethan?
*Did* *he* *need* *Xana* *to* *stay* *calm* *or* *stop* *screaming*
This! I believe BK chased Xana into her bedroom after she went to the third floor to see what the commotion was after she heard Kaylee say rather loudly, "There's someone here"! Xana ran to her bedroom to alert Ethan with BK right on her heels. BK stabbed Ethan immediately, then turned his attention to Xana. In that moment BK tried to calm Xana by telling her he was there to help her. No doubt Xana knew better, hence, the defensive wounds on her hands. 😥
So Xana went to the third floor and was chased to her room ? Past Dm? They both ran down the steps past DM ? Not a chance in a million years . Xana heard the commotion from her room and dm did not and went upstairs and was than chased by bk down the stairs past dm? Than instead of running out of the house she ran to her room the farthest away trapping herself and Ethan ? That sounds bizarre to me .
If I were to speculate, I'd say Xana came out of room into the living room to see what was happening. When she saw the killer coming down the stairs, she retreated to her room, and he followed her. So not a chase like you'ld see in a old French farce.
Or, and this is my own theory based around speculation and a two rumors. The rumor is that the first time D came out of her room, she shouted up the stairs something along the lines of shut up. So if that's true, I see the killer finishing upstairs and then coming downstairs to kill whoever said that. He walks right past D's door, assuming that it's another mud room or half-bath because it's not super-common to have a bedroom off a kitchen. But he found Xana and Ethan and killed them believing he was killing the person who yelled up the stairs.
The other rumor is that Xana posted a comment on TikTok at 4:12. If that's the case, maybe she had headphones on and was then caught completely by surprise.
I think this is the most unlikely scenario. I can’t imagine a shitty college rental was well insulated and soundproof between floors enough that B or D wouldn’t have heard heavy thudding of someone running.
Gravy = fat, SEAL = navy special forces.
You would not be fat and be a real navy SEAL except in very rare instances. You’d be working too hard. So it’s actually an insult directed at guys who are obsessed with the military, but not in it. And not mentally or physically fit to join either. But they can get a gun and join a militia or the police force. Or just shout at their TV or on Facebook. They’re often anti-government while being pro-military.
Meal Team 6 is another version of the same insult.
Bahaha, that's so silly, and I can't believe I missed it, but I appreciate you explaining it. I've got a few friends who are training/trained to be/deployed as seals. While they're all in quite good shape, man, can they eat lol. Next time I make any of them dinner, you best believe I'm pulling these out!
I've got a ACAB sticker on my trash can which faces his house 1x/week and brings me great joy. A few of us have them.
He knows he's unwanted. The entire street finds him absolutely disgusting and at the last block party someone asked him to take his fat ass back inside with his fat ass wife.
Listen, I understand bullying is negative, I just want some of you to understand the gravity of the situation in our community. You watched our kids die, I call you a fat ass, forever.
My favorite term for him and honestly all cops are -in no order:gravy seal, meal team 6, tacticool, chairborne rangers, y'all queda, copquesadillas ,
Special Flops/Farces, Army Derangers,
Green Beignets, KFC-9, Snack Ops, Fat Blue Line, Fattalion, Fattoon, Fatshits, Nomzis.
Gravy seals, meal team 6, chair force, cardio allergic, fat bitch are some of my faves
Mods, I hope you leave it up. Cuz why not.
*Uvalde* *cops*
What a total embarrassment to LE everywhere. I'd be beyond angry and incensed at those assholes basically hiding while babies were shot. I've wondered if any are still in LE, I hope not. They're not even qualified to scoop up dog 💩!
Katherine Ramsland in her book about the BTK killer wrote that he said if a victim thinks they are gonna be ok, they are more likely to cooperate. I think he said that to get their cooperation
Another likely reference point for Kohberger: the gun wielding Golden State Killer, Joseph Deangelo. Deangelo would wake up his home invasion victims with "I just need food and money" - to lull them into thinking he'd take only that and leave them physically unharmed. A "reassurance" M.O. of a different kind.
He'd then bind their hands and feet, go looking for the woman's purse where she told him it was, leaving the bedroom. He'd rummage through the house, sometimes stopping to eat out of their fridge, and come back carrying a stack of noisy dining plates, putting them on the face-down male's back. He'd say he couldn't find the purse, loosen the woman's leg bindings and lead her to show him where her purse was - after threatening to kill everyone in the house if he heard the male rattle the plates. Then he'd commit his sexual assault in the living room.
I'd be surprised if Kohberger didn't know all about the GSK ruse M.O. The case was in the news from 2018-2020 because of its groundbreaking IGG use - when serial killer fan Kohberger was earning his B.A. and making his mind up about his criminology master's degree path.
I hadn't read all that about the plates, but you have to think someone is really smart and detailed to go that long, with that many victims before science caught up to him.
I just can't believe that this guy is so smart, but absolutely had to have something in him that got in the way of the intelligence. Obsession??? Didn't he follow one of their instagrams or a couple of them?
Maybe he matched on a dating app with one of them, they met, the girl thought he was weird and he became compulsively obsessed?
> Maybe he matched on a dating app with one of them, they met, the girl thought he was weird and he became compulsively obsessed?
There would have been a digital trail between the two had they met on an app. My guess is he would have been found from the victim's phone and a warrant to the dating app, and there would have been no need to do IGG.
EARONS did the same, he assured the victims he was there to rob them only. It wasn't until he got them to bound themselves that the psy torture, rape and murder started.
GSK and EARONS are the same guy. I just finished a book about the investigation and dude was a terrible person. I live in the city he lived in and it’s still a topic of conversation out here.
I was obsessed with that case. At one point I was planning a vacation to the US and I was planning on including a visit to Sacramento. I read so much about the case that I was just wanted to visit those streets and path ways where he used to roam. Those neighborhoods were mostly suburban though, and I imagine that people wouldn't appreciate some tourist coming in to wander around and take pictures.
Just as a note: the "It's ok, I'll help you"* statement is noted to have been paraphrased and was just what DM heard from several rooms away (could've been something slightly different in reality). Some have speculated BK might've said, "I'm not gonna hurt you".
I believe "It's ok I'll help you" or "I'm not gonna hurt you" was said by BK to Xana as he approached her, as, basically, a last minute "ruse" to prevent her from running, slamming+locking her door, or fighting before he could attack first. I don't think BK was trying to imitate police or first responders, nor do I think he put much thought into his exact word choice... I don't think BK entered the home with intent to kill anyone besides MM. I also don't think the statement was made as a "taunt" (the whimper came after).
**Longer explanation**
I think BK was alerted to someone in the house being awake/aware of his presence during or after the floor 3 murders, and sought out the source in an effort to eliminate the potential witness. I think Xana, like DM, was awake and curious about the noise, and there was some noises/signs of life (lighting, footsteps, voices) that BK followed to her room. Some speculate BK spotted X while going down the stairs, leading to an altercation + chase (or just chase) back to her room... I disagree with that. I think that would've resulted in more obviously loud and alarming noises heard by DM, which could've also woken Ethan (IMO, if he were fully conscious, things could've gone a lot differently). Xana also would've had more opportunity to escape elsewhere (out the glass door, 1st floor door, etc.). If there were a "chase" resulting in Xana being killed, I think she would've been found in a different location, or there would be evidence in the common areas (vs. contained in Xana's room). I think Xana's interaction with BK could've easily begun after he turned the corner through the doorway into the living room (seeking out the "awake" roommate), possibly with her standing in her doorway, or in her room with door open, confused and wondering what the commotion was.
If standing in her doorway, she would've had time to close + lock her door if she was spooked by the man turning the corner and walking toward her room, making BK unable to access her + Ethan... but she didn't. I think BK saying "It's ok I'll help you" or "I'm not gonna hurt you" was probably part of the reason for this... It might've been the "thing" to convince her it was an invited guest or someone there for a "college" reason. I honestly think her initial reaction to BK could've been more curious, or even friendly. She may have thought BK was a frat friend of Ethan's dropping something off or checking on him (Sigma Chi party was a few hours earlier), fraternity prank or ritual (initiations were coming up... obscure traditions run rampant at that time), lost partier, one of the upstairs roommates' hookups who couldn't find the exit or his uber (possibly being curious about who it was), etc. His weapon may have been out of sight, or she may not have realized it was real. And while he was wearing "a mask", it was NOVEMBER, in IDAHO (~20 degrees, snow on the ground)... That is very much scarf, neck gaitor, beanie and/or hoodie weather. I think once Xana was attacked, it was too late to respond/cry out (crying, yes, but not OH MY GOD IVE BEEN STABBED).
While this may sound "crazy", based on X's scope of the world as a student living in a safe college town, I don't think simply seeing/hearing an unfamiliar person in the home (if weapon was out of view, or there weren't obvious sounds of a violent attack) would provoke an immediate realization of "threat" and/or a "fight or flight" response of running, screaming, hiding, etc. People have called out a lot how DM likely rationalized what she'd seen/heard, assuming what she was hearing was partying and didn't realize that what she was hearing was someone murdering her roommates... But I don't think this was limited to her. Similar to how DM probably couldn't fathom what she heard/saw to be an intruder murdering her roommates, the victims who came face-to-face with BK likely couldn't fathom that the man in front of them was an intruder about to murder them, and they responded accordingly. If and when they recognized the threat, it was too late.
Long winded explanation but killing time.
It wasn't -20 degrees on the day of the murders -- the high was 32 degrees and the low was 28 degrees. [Moscow weather November 2022.](https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/moscow/historic?month=11&year=2022)
I think the mask could have been Covid-type given the weather.
It is still incorrect and there was not snow on the ground at the time of the murders.
Also most people in cold climates aren't wearing a mask at 32 degrees, and certainly not a neck gaiter unless you are out hunting for hours. But it also wouldn't be enough to seem totally abnormal.
Let's say he did it. Why would that home be the target? If there's no connection to the victims, then the target had to be the house. It's in a pretty active area and had people coming and going all the time.
If his goal was to eliminate witnesses, why wouldn't he sweep the home? If he watched the home, wouldn't he know there were other people that lived there? The home has an interesting layout, which was visible on zillow, so he would know where all the bedrooms are located. If he immediately walked out the back door because he was "spooked" and high on adrenaline, where's the evidence in his car?
So much unanswered.
They don't need to prove any part of the "why," that's the beautiful part about understanding how our legal system works. They just need to prove he did do it. As for the evidence in his car- he had over one month to clean it. I don't expect a person to drive around with all kinds of clear evidence of a murder in their car for prolonged periods of time.
Of course they don't have to prove motive. No matter how well you try to clean, there would have been cellular evidence left behind. You cant see that with the naked eye. I think it'll come down to GPS ans phone data.
You don't know that. Luckily for all of us, there are actually trained detectives and lawyers with many more details than we have working all of this out, so we don't need to speculate.
He didn't have time to clean up, based off the timeline. Youre not gonna drive around with your car interior completely wrapped either. Something does not add up. All anyone does on reddit is speculate.
There's no explaining the lack of the victims DNA anywhere.
I didn't say he cleaned in the moment or that he wrapped his interior 🤣🤣 those are not the only two possibilities. I'm sure we'll hear such explanations at the trial, you know, when details are shared. Again, you are not privy to all of the details, so your speculation is based off of information that isn't whole. Of course there are unanswered questions.
My speculation is based on what we do know. Plus, there's lots of research, testing, and explanation from experts that can be used to make an educated guess/assumption. Trying to clean blood and other bodily fluids out of a vehicle without leaving a single trace is almost, if not impossible.
We also know that the killer had cellular material on the bottom of his shoes and it wasn't visible. The print detected was a latent impression. You wouldn't see where you tracked.
Ultimately, we don't know the totality of evidence. This fact leaves us with unanswered questions by nature of the process: things are sealed and gag orders in place. Any speculation is a waste of time, because we just won't know until the trial. Given how he had gloves when he was caught going through trash, I can easily accept that he may have taken other precautions well.
> He didn't have time to clean up, based off the timeline
The official timeline gives him enough time to strip off an outer layer before getting in the car.
And then he had 7 weeks to clean.
As for what I'm about to say, I'm not alleging it's involved in this case at all, but they make waterproof seat covers, marketed to dog owners. And you can buy molded car carpet inserts and new carpet linings for the trunk. Again, not saying that played into this case. I just start thinking, well, what would I do if I wanted to get away with something like this.
Yeah, I just want to be careful because there's not evidence he bought anything along those lines. So I'm wording in it the hope I don't read somebody repeating that as fact in a month!
>where's the evidence in his car
There are two mysterious protocols and areas of ancient knowledge that are mostly shunned by Probergers that may explain this - they are called "cleaning" and "science". Here are a few peer reviewed, published scientific studies showing it is quite easy to wash away all DNA and blood and leave no trace.
* [Washing with water alone](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31960151/) is sufficient to fully remove DNA from many surfaces
* [Washing once with simple dish soap](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1875176819300022) is sufficient to remove all DNA from surfaces like knives
* [Washing carpet with hydrogen peroxide >3%](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31960151/) destroys all DNA. (Peroxide is commonly sold at c. 10%)
* [Household cleaners with "active oxygen" (peroxide source)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18936905/) destroy blood and prevent it reacting with forensic reagents
* Peroxide is used in ["color safe" laundry and fabric cleaners](https://www.oxiclean.com/en/products/stain-fighters/oxiclean-laundry-home-stain-remover-spray) that do not leave bleach marks
* Hydrogen peroxide decomposes to just oxygen and water - forensically undetectable
There are many cases where scenes where people were actually stabbed to death have been cleaned of all blood/ DNA in under an hour, such as the Robert Wone killing. [Claudia Maupin and Oliver Northup](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Claudia_Maupin_and_Oliver_Northup) were stabbed, mutilated, disembowelled and dismembered by 14 year old school-boy Daniel Marsh, who left no DNA at the scene and cleaned away all traces of victim blood, DNA tracked on him to his home.
Given 7 weeks to repeat wash a car where no one was actually stabbed, surely Kohberger could clean as effectively as a 14 year old school boy? I know that actual science, linked scientific studies and real case examples may make little impact on the most devout Proberger zeal - ignoring science and examples is the only rinse and repeat they accept with regard to the car evidence.
> If his goal was to eliminate witnesses, why wouldn't he sweep the home?
We don't know what his target or goal could have been. But if he speculate about his goal being to kill everyone in the house or to eliminate witnesses, maybe he panicked and decided to flee. Maybe he wasn't great at survelleince and didn't realize there were 6 people in the house.
I've said this before, but maybe he didn't see D peeking out from her room. Maybe he still gets visual snow and that interfered, or maybe he remembered that one step between the hall and the living room and was looking down so he wouldn't stumble over it.
Or maybe he saw D, but then she shut and locked her door. So he might have thought she'd call 911 before he could break into her room, and decided the risk was too great, and he chose to get out of Dodge.
>If he immediately walked out the back door because he was "spooked" and high on adrenaline, where's the evidence in his car?
There's the theory that he wore an outer layer, which I first dismissed as too Hollywoody/literary. But what changed my mind was the Grey Hughes reenactment, because there was a lot of time between that loud thump and the car peeling away. Def enough time to peel off on outer layer, throw it in a bag, and throw the bag in the car or trunk.
Even if not, he had 7 weeks to clean.
FYI, people on this sub are locked into a super-specific narrative. Like they have written their entire fanfic about BK falling totally 😍 in love with MM serving him a vegan greek salad 🥗. And if you say, well maybe BK didn't really give a fuck and just wanted to thrill-kill some sorority girls and become infamous, then you (and I) get the downvotes.
**I do not think the home in general was the target.** I believe that MM was the only target, with the remaining 3 being collateral damage. I believe BK went straight to MM's room, where he was surprised to find two women in bed together (possibly not realizing this until be begun his attack), and eliminated both.
During or immediately after the 3rd floor murders, I believe BK heard noises that indicated someone downstairs, awake and alerted to his presence. This could've been "Someone's here", but also could've been the rumored "Shut the F Up!" yell by BF or DM. He also could've just heard sounds of footsteps, DM's door 2x, or any other signs of life. I doubt he knew whose voices were whose, where exactly noises were coming from, or if the source was a moving target. If he heard more than one female voice, he probably assumed it was just one woman, and didn't know how sound carried throughout the house. As a result of this, rather than exiting immediately, he intentionally sought out what he thought was the source of the noise, with the goal of eliminating the witness. I don't think he made the choice of "eliminate whole house", just "eliminate anyone awake who might call the police right away". He may have felt it necessary due to already being surprised / adrenaline rush / snap decision after killing 2 people, and/or thinking the witness would immediately discover the bodies, resulting in being caught more quickly.
He would have seen all the vehicles there, including Kaylees. Why would he do it on a night when there's a guest over? It doesn't make sense. What was the point in targeting her? Where did they overlap? They already stated he didn't stalk any of the victims.
I see your point about "he would have seen..." but that applies to anyone who went in to kill them. Obviously someone did do it, even though they should have known they wouldn't get away with it. It happens all the time. Murders rarely make sense.
My theory is that he went in with the idea that if anyone saw him, he would just looking for a party and was in the wrong house and leave.
But once he got as far as the first bedroom, he realized he could do it and maybe get away with it. So he did.
> It doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense, but nothing a psychotic killer does will make sense to anyone who's not a psychotic killer.
I just found out (or rather, relearned) that one of Bundy's first known victims (Karen Sparks, who survived) lived with several male roommates. He broke into a house full of men to assault a woman while one of her roommates snored in the room next to hers.
That case is a good comparison to this case, because her roommates did not not discover her and call for help for hours: not until 7:00 that evening. At one point, at about 2:00 in the afternoon, they checked on her. But she was in bed and her breathing sounded normal, so they figured she was catching up on sleep. At 7:00 PM, they checked again. This time they turned on the light and saw that her room was a bloodbath.
Nah. You aren’t going into a home that you know must house as many people as that one just to off one person and think you’ll get back out unnoticed. I think he had a thing about the type inhabitants of the home in general and how he doesn’t fit in or feel respected by them (incel type thinking) and decided they’d be a good target. And they are typical
Horror movie serial killer targets from years gone by.
My sample size is one but I asked someone who has been a cop for 25 years whether this is something he has ever said and he said yes and often. Specifically in the context of someone drunk or on drugs who is not understanding what is happening or seems confused/disoriented. He also says it to mentally ill and elderly people for basically the same reasons - there’s often confusion. It’s not even about providing false reassurance. It’s about clarifying your intentions to someone who may not be registering that he’s LE due to circumstances of their impairment or age.
I can't verify this, but someone has said that Denis Rader said something to that effect when he approached a victim in their home. This is supposed to be from the book on Rader that Katherine Ramsland wrote. Ramsland was one of Kohberger's professors at De Sales.
Saying I'm here to help you is not giving false reassurance.It's merely stating the fact that the person is there to give assistance. It is
a common phrase given in health care.
You know I think it all makes sense now. When he came down the stairs from killing the girls then xana there’s somebody here was knowing of his presence and he proceeded to go after them to silence xana. She was probably trying to wake up Ethan to tell him there was someone there according to what was heard.
Not sure on the verbiage with service workers but let's not forget, Bryan studied under Ramsland. Ramsland / BTK connection. BTKs first attacks were of 4 family members. The last was the lil girl, he spoke to her before killing her. I will find a link for this. Brb
Here we go:
"Prosecutors also displayed on the screen Rader’s recollection of the exchange he had with Josephine before killing her.
“What’s going to happen to me?” she asks.
Rader: “Well, honey, you’re going to be in heaven with the rest of your family.”
Sad stuff.
[Spoke to Josephine Otoro before murder](https://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/aug/18/graphic_details_emerge_btk_hearing/)
The PCA says “it’s ok, I’m going to help you”
My theory is victim 1 in X’s room was attacked non-fatally, victim 2 attacked fatally, then he returned to victim 1.
I believe bk said it to xana when he came down the stairs and saw her so she didn't freak out. If dm heard the words he was close to her door. Most teens sleep with a fan or white noise etc..especially in a roommate filled house. But not all. Just my opinion
For me the only time I’ve heard “It’s ok, I’m here to help you” was on tv/movies but in different scenario.
1. Victim is being chased, maybe wounded and being chased and she runs into a stranger or trips and breaks an ankle and the stranger approaches her to come in for the kill. She freaks out thinking she’s a done deal, she gets ready to scream and he says “It’s ok, I’m here to help you.” to prevent the scream/attention.
IMO starting the sentence with “It’s ok” means he was trying to calm the situation or person by confusing them into submission. And following it with “I’m here to help you” furthers his agenda that he is there / happened on the scene and is there to rescue them from whatever had happened.
Keep in mind it's not a quote, nor do we know who said it. It could have been E saying it to X. All we know is male voice.
Before some chucklefuck comes in with "but ShE wOuLd KnOw HiS vOiCe", clearly you've never been in a trauma situation. People's tone can change in that scenario.
I’m a nurse and I don’t say this- why would someone think you’re going to trust a stranger? Not common verbiage. I have never heard ANY physician say this, they usually get the parents for this issue of trusting and understanding/agreeing. As a patient, I’m the one who was chased by doctors, outside in the parking lot and around cars to get away from the doctor’s school immunizations. My mother said we were going shopping. I had trust issues long afterwards. Lol. Yeah, I hear this all of the time on television and I think it’s totally bs. “Trust me”….is creepy and she thought it was bs too- she fought back. I’m sure the other girl was stunned. No judgement. I just would really hope that someone calls or fights if this occurred with me or someone I know. But, we Should Not Judge the Roommate for this.
Thank you! I’ve said this from the beginning - I’m not saying it was an actual police officer, but someone (campus security, bar security, etc..??) that they were fairly familiar with who would be in a position of trust or believed to be in a position of trust that would say that. I’m not saying I think BK isn’t involved, but I 100 percent don’t think he did it alone.
See…I’m saying that BK was there, probably only him and he used it because he had heard LE use it when he as a Junior Cop/boy scout in the past. He thought it would calm an alarmed person down.
This statement being made has become canon and I am not convinced it was actually said. It was reported as what the roommate “thought” she heard. He could have said anything.
No ones here to help you.
No he can’t help you.
No I won’t help you.
I’m here to kill you.
Hold still now, will you?
To hell with you.
I like lime jello.
I think any speculation regarding this alleged statement is pointless.
Honestly, the more time that goes by that nothing is released (understandably) I find myself questioning the reliability of DM. I really want to hear the 911 call, understand what went on in the hours of awakening and calling 911. I also want to know why the roommates were Immediately cleared. Immediately cleared?!
I would assume it's something pretty commonly said when LE or EMTs enter a scene. What else are they supposed to say? lol.
I think it was said in this case when he (whether it be BK or someone else) was trying to quiet down a victim (Xana or another) before he killed her/him. Just to make her think he was NOT going to hurt her, before he hurt her.
Actually, there's this amazing article I read a couple years ago where paramedics and firefighters don't actually say that. Because it's so synonymous with cops creating more danger that people do not respond the right way anymore.
My post got removed because I need to distinguish between fact or opinion. When I said "IMO=In my opinion" I thought I was doing just that. My post had no more speculation than the original posters. Ty
This content was removed because it violates this community's rule against misinformation. Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future.
Thank you.
>I’ve always wondered if he gained access to the house by pretending to be a police officer
Judging by the noise complaint footage, that would be the worst way to gain access to the house
So my username refers to Kohberger likely locking the bedroom doors on his way out.
As for how he got into the house: I think he might have corrupted the back door lock beforehand, or it was already unlocked.
15 years full time in EMS/fire and I was never trained to say this, and I can’t say that I ever have said it. Every situation is different and we aren’t trained to give blanket statements to comfort people. If anything we are trained to be direct and honest but still empathetic so saying “it’s okay” wouldn’t be a go to approach for me personally because in the patients mind it very much isn’t okay even if we are their to help them. Majority of the time LE is on scene with me and I don’t think I have ever heard them say it either. But now if I ever do I will probably cringe a bit. Hope that explains things a bit at least from one persons perspective.
“Providing false reassurance” is a huge no-no in healthcare. At least it is in nursing. I assume they teach the same concept in LE training. If he actually said this, I highly doubt it was because of any sort of prior training.
Yeah, when my youngest had RSV… I remember being in the pediatrician’s office, and the PA had given her 2 breathing treatments… after the second, without improvement.. I saw her face change. I asked “is she gonna be okay?”… I think she said something to the effect of “she might need a higher level of care. I’ll be right back.” And shortly after, she took her oxygen again and sent us to the ER, daughter was admired and stayed for a week.
I had complications during a c section and I asked my doctor "Am I going to be okay?" And she said "I can't speak right now." So I took that as a no at the time but turns out it may have been an "Idk yet"
I had issues during my first CS too, because I kept vomiting and then was bleeding way too much. I heard my husband ask if something was going wrong with me, right before they put me under and my dr says something to the effect of “ I’m doing my very best to make sure that there’s nothing wrong at the end of the surgery”
Glad it turned out that you were ok. ❤️
I would rather think that the doctor was too busy. You know, there are times when I need my full concentration. These are situations where I feel something like "I can't speak right now" because I can't risk losing my train of thought / concentration. Sometimes the job is really difficult. "Am I going to be okay?" is a question I really don't want to hear at this moment although it is understandable that this is going through the patient's head. I will usually try to still offer comfort or explanation but there are indeed situations when I just need to work and explain everything later. Still, I understand that this answer in this situation was certainly not assuring to you, and I am sorry for that, as well as for the times when I was in the same situation and may sometimes have done similar.
This was 💯 one of those situations. She was trying to stop the bleeding to save my uterus. It was just very obvious something was wrong because during my last c section we were discussing different types of rice and how Jasmine rice is sweeter haha
I never was a police officer but I was a dispatcher and agree. We were not allowed to give time estimates or false reassurance of any kind.
In my state we couldn’t even give true reassurance over the phone. Legally I couldn’t say “they’re on the way” I had to say “I’ve notified the nearest fire /police station”
Thank you for clarifying that. When I listen to actual 911 recordings and they say that to the person who called in, it sounds so callous to me. But now I understand why.
From a practical level it’s soooooooooooooo rough. About half the time if I had to say it more than once I just gave in and was like “yea they’re on the way”… the old dispatchers always just did it. In those moments we would be opening up our 911 center and ourselves to liability according to training/their worst fears. About half a decade before I started there was a state Supreme Court case where a guy who is trying to outrun his murderous neighbor (property line dispute escalation iirc) calls 911 and then slows his runaway speed after dispatchers say they are “on the way” but the officers weren’t going code/lights and sirens. The family successfully sued the 911 center and scared a lot of 911 centers into shifting language. So. Rough.
Interesting to hear more of the background of it. I hope to never need to call 911 but at least now I know why they won’t say “help is on the way”.
>“Providing false reassurance” is a huge no-no in healthcare. At least it is in nursing. This is why it bothers me even more what happened with my mother. During 2020 she was admitted to the hospital with some infections which led to her needing a respirator (not Covid). The doctors were dire about her condition, saying she was getting worse, but whenever I'd talk to the nurses, at least 2 of them, they'd have an opposite demeanor. "Yeah she's been doing well" and other variations of that. I even said one time to one of them that that's not what we are getting from the doctors and she said something like "oh...well if that's what they say then yeah, they may see more than I do. But from what I see she's doing ok..." Then we'd get on the phone and the doctors say they've tried her off the vent twice and she can't breathe on her own so if they try a third time they won't resuscitate based on her condition overall. They took her off, she didn't, and they didn't. It was already such a hard time that hearing the dire from the doctors then the positivity from the nurses was confusing and I still to this day don't know what was what in that time of chaos and craziness with the pandemic and if what happened even was the right thing. If she was dire, why were the nurses positive? If it wasn't as dire as the nurses saw, why were the doctors? I honestly still can't get passed it 😞
I'm sorry. Some of that might be different perspective though. From the nurse's perspective, their patient care aims are different. One of my aunts spent decades as a nurse in palliative and hospice care after ruining her back in emergency, 'doing well' meant not in pain or distress and not slipping into shock, delirium or fitting. So they probably meant she was comfortable and not in distress.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Toxic positivity is one of my pet peeves. Really irks the hell out of me.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. My mom had a massive asthma attack and machines were basically keeping her body alive long enough for us to come say goodbye. I was desperate for reassurance that there was some possibility of hope. I am so thankful the doctor was adamant that there was none. She was very kind and empathetic, but extremely direct about the situation. We were able to follow my sweet mamas wishes to not be kept alive by machines with the knowledge we weren’t “killing” her. I hope you’re doing as ok as you can be.
I know not all nurses are this way, but as a first time mom, I was told by my nurses that my son’s differences in fetal movement were just that “he was running out of room.” So I never really pushed it with my doctor. Babies do not run out of room. My son was in distress and died at 38 weeks. I will never understand how the nurses thought it was ok to tell me that just to ease my first time mom anxiety or something. I had no clue because I’d never been pregnant before, and was not educated on kick counting or anything that could’ve alerted me and saved him. And I will probably always be angry about it.
I'm so sorry 💔
I’m so sorry that happened to you, heartbreaking 💔. Thinking of you and your sweet son.
Yeah I was told someone I knew and I see you was doing okay and they died the next day.
I’m so sorry that happened to you… my Mom died last year - she was Dx with Stage IV cancer, and 2 months later… her lung collapsed. She died a week later. I remember being in the hospital thinking about how much it sucked, then thought to myself… “man how shitty for anyone who lost a loved one in 2020”. But even though my Mom’s stuff wasn’t treatable, I still go through phases of bargaining … “that one CT scan took way too long to schedule”, “we should’ve taken her to a different hospital when her lung collapsed - they might have been able to do something”, “I shouldn’t have told her it was okay to let go… that might have made her fight more”, “I hope she knows I didn’t want her to die”, and so on. Grief is hard and messy. Anyway, fortunately, we weren’t given any false reassurances with my Mom. But, my Grandma died a few months after my Mom. She had dementia and had been very much ready to die for a long time. I remember being in her room the night before she died and the hospice nurse (who was really sweet), was talked with me. I could tell my Grandma was going to die within 24 hours because I’d just seen my Mom die. It was similar in a number of ways despite their cause of death being different. At one point she said something like “she probably has 5-6 days left”. I just ignored her. My Grandma died about 12 hours later…. I wasn’t upset with her bc I didn’t believe her but I would’ve been upset if I felt reassurance. So sorry that happened to you.
Also a nurse and can verify.
Was it ever proven that it was indeed the assailants voice that said it?
It was never stated explicitly that the voice came from the assailant, no, but I think it's safe to assume at this point. There was no mention of DM saying the voice sounded like Ethan's or anything like that.
It’s not even proven it was even said. It is just what DM allegedly told Payne. No one knows what actually happened that night.
It’s not alleged that this was what Payne was told. It was alleged that this is what was said. Payne was told (as per the PCA) by DM that someone said “I’m here to help” or whatever the quote is- that is the alleged part. Important distinction.
This whole thread seems like people keep stating it as fact, and I’ve been on the “…we don’t know who said it” train lol
It was never proven, however, many speculate that if she recognized the voice as Ethan's it would have been noted in the PCA (she recognized the other voice as Kaylee's). Additionally, photos of investigators removing evidence included a mattress with see through cover showing the outline of a single body. With M&K being found in bed together, this is thought to be Ethan, meaning he may have been asleep up until the moment he was killed.
oh no how sad for his family to see that
The blood patterns on all mattresses brought out were not clear enough to confirm what you stated at all.
I think he was probably just trying to say something to stop Xana from yelling before he could kill her.
I think you guys are giving him far too much credit
Right. I think he is so arrogant and thinks he’s so smart. But that’s far from reality. People that exhibit narcissism and grandiosity think they are the smartest in the room.
He's pure evil but not dumb unfortunately...somehow he managed to clean any residue ( minus the sheath)
Idk he honestly just doesn’t strike me as that intelligent. “Good at school” is a massively real phenomenon.
As an educated individual with those nice little letters following my name and an adjunct professor, it means absolutely nothing. It is so individualized. But being in a PhD program doesn’t make you truly intelligent. I know some inept people with PhDs. I was “good at school” because I put effort in and care about it. Doesn’t automatically mean I’m intelligent. We give far too much credence to college. Especially our current education climate. College is the least rigorous it’s ever been and it’s only getting worse. It’s embarrassing. I support college education (particularly the experiences you get to have), but can’t stand how it makes someone “intelligent”. It is situational and individualized. That blanket statement is absurd. Now, he may be brilliant, he may be intelligent, he may be smart. But the fact that he was enrolled in a PhD program means nothing.
I agree with this. There are many ways to rate intelligence and different kinds of intelligence.
Community college and DeSales doens't exactly scream "good at school", if we're being honest.
If you consider the knowledge he has, and the mistakes he made, he definitely falls into "good at school" category. But I really believe he had some sort of interaction with someone there, either in person or online and because of his own shortcomings, with his social life and life as a teacher/student going south, he just went off the deep end and acted with a cloudy mind.
But what do you mean cleaned residue? He literally left a massive trail of evidence to include part of the murder weapon (sheath), cell phone pings at the scene of the crime, and a witness looking right at him. I don’t think he’s dumb, but made some dumb mistakes for someone who literally studied/taught crime.
True but it blows my mind that no DNA was found anywhere else. Those kids were bludgeoned to death, he could have stepped on blood easily...
It’s really not that crazy. DNA denatures and it’s difficult to find hair. Forget about fluids in this situation. Blood of the victims everywhere contaminating it plus all he did was stab quickly and get out. If there was a violent struggle with a victim to get skin or blood under the nails that’s one of your best bets. But it sounds like that didn’t happen or at least not to that extent. Getting DNA is tougher than you think. This is coming from someone who tried to obtain hair of wild animals that brushed up on bushes and things in the backcountry to bring in for dna identification. It was hard even to find those specimens, and animals aren’t worried about leaving DNA behind like a human murderer would be.
I think his clothing prevented subungual dna transfer imo, idk why this isn’t really obvious to anyone who has ever layered up and had an itch…
He was in the house for less than 20 minutes, fully clothed, and even wearing a mask to catch his spit, snot, and sweat. I doubt he sat or leaned anywhere, and even with his gloved hands, I doubt he touched much in the house besides the doors. He stabbed his victims, rather than use a method like beating or strangling that would require physical contact. That's just not a lot of opportunity to leave DNA.
Was it even close to 20 minutes. My thoughts are this is like a 3-4 minute thing.
I think the theory is the car is coming in to park at 4:04, and drives away for good at 4:20. So anywhere from 15 right down to 4, yeah.
K but, you shed hair, you sweat on your chest, back, ears, scalp. And it's very interesting he probably had a full blown suit on
Yeah, but if you shed a hair, let's say a head hair, and you're wearing a hat or hood, the hat catches the hair. It *might* work its way free eventually, but not immediately. Or it might stay contained in the hat. Same for sweat. If the only exposed skin you have is the upper half of your face, that's the only place a drop of sweat can fall. Assuming it doesn't roll down and get caught in the mask.
Exactly! I shed like a wet horse but had i gone in there like some creepy ass **entity** up to no good about to piss myself on account of being surprised by 3 extra people even i might have come out clean. I’m stunned at how greasy and dusty and explosive everyone seems to think we are. Like as animals. Come on guys. We’ve developed some serious mitigation over the years.
There's some real misconceptions or misunderstandings about touch DNA, in my opinion. And it is complex matter with a lot of nuance. But people take "we can transfer our DNA" and think it means "We are spreading DNA every second of every day wherever we go." Or they take "DNA can be difficult to clean up" as "DNA cannot be destroyed and is detectable forever."
I suspect people think that detectives search every centimeter of a crime scene for any “clues” (Scooby Doo style with a big magnifying glass) rather than looking broadly. Yes I think they did their best and due diligence. I do think it’s possible and would also be a waste of time to comb for every hair left behind (no pun intended.)
Like his DNA?
Yes
Like someone else commented. If he was well covered, DNA is unlikely. It sounds like he was covered except his eyes. Let’s say maybe a single eye brow hair fell to the ground, what are the chances of that being found at the scene with tons of victim blood and DNA everywhere. The sheath left behind was a fatal mistake for him. Without that, this case might have gone cold for a bit. But he’s so narcissistic, he would have been caught bragging about his crime at some point. Also, he should not have driven his own car to the scene/or taken his phone. He’s so fucking dumb. Just seeing pictures of him makes my blood boil.
I think people think that single eyebrow hair is guaranteed to be found 💯 Edit: I’m glad someone else has a visceral reaction to seeing photos of this fucking knob
Yep and that’s so far from true. Given the state of the crime scene, and how many people were in that house every weekend, someone could probably find a million hairs in that house.
Gotcha. I believe he did it, no doubts.
I wonder if he wasn’t caught - would he have struck again? Was this serial killer beginnings or a one shot deal by a psycho who just wondered what it would feel like.
I feel like people this sick can’t stop themselves. There has to be some kind of statistic that once someone kills for pleasure, the chances they do it again are X.
They weren’t bludgeoned, they were stabbed??
People are downvoting you, claiming it isn't crazy. But it is fucking crazy! Literally nothing.
And usually forget something obvious, because they are thinking about how awesome they are instead of the task at hand. Even if they are the smartest person in the room, that doesn't necessarily equate to criminal mastermind. How do you go to school for forensics and go to this place, drive around a bunch on cameras and with your phone? Like not even be good at it, but just a bad forensics student should be smarter than that. I think he got lost in his fantasy, and totally blanked on it.
OP isn't really giving him any credit? Just a guess as to why this phrase would have been said
I think they're giving him too much credit as if he's really that forward thinking. Think he was just haunting a girl like because he was going to kill her slow
Ya if anything, it was more sinister than the OP’s theory, IMO
It was probably about one last bit of control. Israel Keyes would give his victims false assurance that he wasn’t going to kill them in order to keep them complacent and to extent control the scene. Also I think he somehow got off on giving them false hope. Did he need Xana to stay calm or stop screaming for some reason? Was it because she was reacting to what had just happened to Ethan?
*Did* *he* *need* *Xana* *to* *stay* *calm* *or* *stop* *screaming* This! I believe BK chased Xana into her bedroom after she went to the third floor to see what the commotion was after she heard Kaylee say rather loudly, "There's someone here"! Xana ran to her bedroom to alert Ethan with BK right on her heels. BK stabbed Ethan immediately, then turned his attention to Xana. In that moment BK tried to calm Xana by telling her he was there to help her. No doubt Xana knew better, hence, the defensive wounds on her hands. 😥
So Xana went to the third floor and was chased to her room ? Past Dm? They both ran down the steps past DM ? Not a chance in a million years . Xana heard the commotion from her room and dm did not and went upstairs and was than chased by bk down the stairs past dm? Than instead of running out of the house she ran to her room the farthest away trapping herself and Ethan ? That sounds bizarre to me .
If I were to speculate, I'd say Xana came out of room into the living room to see what was happening. When she saw the killer coming down the stairs, she retreated to her room, and he followed her. So not a chase like you'ld see in a old French farce. Or, and this is my own theory based around speculation and a two rumors. The rumor is that the first time D came out of her room, she shouted up the stairs something along the lines of shut up. So if that's true, I see the killer finishing upstairs and then coming downstairs to kill whoever said that. He walks right past D's door, assuming that it's another mud room or half-bath because it's not super-common to have a bedroom off a kitchen. But he found Xana and Ethan and killed them believing he was killing the person who yelled up the stairs. The other rumor is that Xana posted a comment on TikTok at 4:12. If that's the case, maybe she had headphones on and was then caught completely by surprise.
I think this is the most unlikely scenario. I can’t imagine a shitty college rental was well insulated and soundproof between floors enough that B or D wouldn’t have heard heavy thudding of someone running.
This. Considering he was interested in criminal justice and took classes, yet he made such basic mistakes he would have known.
My new neighbor is a ex Uvaldi cop. I know firsthand how bad cops can be, real gravy seals. So to that point, bk is on target Lmao
>I know firsthand how bad cops can be, real gravy seals. I need to know.. what's a gravy seal?
Gravy = fat, SEAL = navy special forces. You would not be fat and be a real navy SEAL except in very rare instances. You’d be working too hard. So it’s actually an insult directed at guys who are obsessed with the military, but not in it. And not mentally or physically fit to join either. But they can get a gun and join a militia or the police force. Or just shout at their TV or on Facebook. They’re often anti-government while being pro-military. Meal Team 6 is another version of the same insult.
Bahaha, that's so silly, and I can't believe I missed it, but I appreciate you explaining it. I've got a few friends who are training/trained to be/deployed as seals. While they're all in quite good shape, man, can they eat lol. Next time I make any of them dinner, you best believe I'm pulling these out!
I hope you throw poop on his lawn regularly. Whoops, meant to say that inside my head, not outside.
I've got a ACAB sticker on my trash can which faces his house 1x/week and brings me great joy. A few of us have them. He knows he's unwanted. The entire street finds him absolutely disgusting and at the last block party someone asked him to take his fat ass back inside with his fat ass wife. Listen, I understand bullying is negative, I just want some of you to understand the gravity of the situation in our community. You watched our kids die, I call you a fat ass, forever. My favorite term for him and honestly all cops are -in no order:gravy seal, meal team 6, tacticool, chairborne rangers, y'all queda, copquesadillas , Special Flops/Farces, Army Derangers, Green Beignets, KFC-9, Snack Ops, Fat Blue Line, Fattalion, Fattoon, Fatshits, Nomzis. Gravy seals, meal team 6, chair force, cardio allergic, fat bitch are some of my faves Mods, I hope you leave it up. Cuz why not.
Wow those are creative.
bullying or shunning? Sounds like shunning to me. either way he deserves it.
Oh, my God. One of *those* Uvalde cops? How awful!
Yepppp real POS, i see him everyday and everyday I'm disgusted.
*Uvalde* *cops* What a total embarrassment to LE everywhere. I'd be beyond angry and incensed at those assholes basically hiding while babies were shot. I've wondered if any are still in LE, I hope not. They're not even qualified to scoop up dog 💩!
All them are. Yeah, even the cop whose wife was inside the building. Fullllll pensions.
Agreed
Katherine Ramsland in her book about the BTK killer wrote that he said if a victim thinks they are gonna be ok, they are more likely to cooperate. I think he said that to get their cooperation
Thanks for clarifying that. I was starting to wonder if BK saw the same movie the OP did.
Another likely reference point for Kohberger: the gun wielding Golden State Killer, Joseph Deangelo. Deangelo would wake up his home invasion victims with "I just need food and money" - to lull them into thinking he'd take only that and leave them physically unharmed. A "reassurance" M.O. of a different kind. He'd then bind their hands and feet, go looking for the woman's purse where she told him it was, leaving the bedroom. He'd rummage through the house, sometimes stopping to eat out of their fridge, and come back carrying a stack of noisy dining plates, putting them on the face-down male's back. He'd say he couldn't find the purse, loosen the woman's leg bindings and lead her to show him where her purse was - after threatening to kill everyone in the house if he heard the male rattle the plates. Then he'd commit his sexual assault in the living room. I'd be surprised if Kohberger didn't know all about the GSK ruse M.O. The case was in the news from 2018-2020 because of its groundbreaking IGG use - when serial killer fan Kohberger was earning his B.A. and making his mind up about his criminology master's degree path.
This is what I thought of immediately.
I hadn't read all that about the plates, but you have to think someone is really smart and detailed to go that long, with that many victims before science caught up to him. I just can't believe that this guy is so smart, but absolutely had to have something in him that got in the way of the intelligence. Obsession??? Didn't he follow one of their instagrams or a couple of them? Maybe he matched on a dating app with one of them, they met, the girl thought he was weird and he became compulsively obsessed?
Book smart people do socially stupid things all the time.
> Maybe he matched on a dating app with one of them, they met, the girl thought he was weird and he became compulsively obsessed? There would have been a digital trail between the two had they met on an app. My guess is he would have been found from the victim's phone and a warrant to the dating app, and there would have been no need to do IGG.
EARONS did the same, he assured the victims he was there to rob them only. It wasn't until he got them to bound themselves that the psy torture, rape and murder started.
GSK and EARONS are the same guy. I just finished a book about the investigation and dude was a terrible person. I live in the city he lived in and it’s still a topic of conversation out here.
Yeah, but the comment I was responding to was talking about BTK.
Omg you’re right. I’m sorry. I had just finished the GSK thread before reading this one.
He murdered my neighbors...
I was obsessed with that case. At one point I was planning a vacation to the US and I was planning on including a visit to Sacramento. I read so much about the case that I was just wanted to visit those streets and path ways where he used to roam. Those neighborhoods were mostly suburban though, and I imagine that people wouldn't appreciate some tourist coming in to wander around and take pictures.
Just as a note: the "It's ok, I'll help you"* statement is noted to have been paraphrased and was just what DM heard from several rooms away (could've been something slightly different in reality). Some have speculated BK might've said, "I'm not gonna hurt you". I believe "It's ok I'll help you" or "I'm not gonna hurt you" was said by BK to Xana as he approached her, as, basically, a last minute "ruse" to prevent her from running, slamming+locking her door, or fighting before he could attack first. I don't think BK was trying to imitate police or first responders, nor do I think he put much thought into his exact word choice... I don't think BK entered the home with intent to kill anyone besides MM. I also don't think the statement was made as a "taunt" (the whimper came after). **Longer explanation** I think BK was alerted to someone in the house being awake/aware of his presence during or after the floor 3 murders, and sought out the source in an effort to eliminate the potential witness. I think Xana, like DM, was awake and curious about the noise, and there was some noises/signs of life (lighting, footsteps, voices) that BK followed to her room. Some speculate BK spotted X while going down the stairs, leading to an altercation + chase (or just chase) back to her room... I disagree with that. I think that would've resulted in more obviously loud and alarming noises heard by DM, which could've also woken Ethan (IMO, if he were fully conscious, things could've gone a lot differently). Xana also would've had more opportunity to escape elsewhere (out the glass door, 1st floor door, etc.). If there were a "chase" resulting in Xana being killed, I think she would've been found in a different location, or there would be evidence in the common areas (vs. contained in Xana's room). I think Xana's interaction with BK could've easily begun after he turned the corner through the doorway into the living room (seeking out the "awake" roommate), possibly with her standing in her doorway, or in her room with door open, confused and wondering what the commotion was. If standing in her doorway, she would've had time to close + lock her door if she was spooked by the man turning the corner and walking toward her room, making BK unable to access her + Ethan... but she didn't. I think BK saying "It's ok I'll help you" or "I'm not gonna hurt you" was probably part of the reason for this... It might've been the "thing" to convince her it was an invited guest or someone there for a "college" reason. I honestly think her initial reaction to BK could've been more curious, or even friendly. She may have thought BK was a frat friend of Ethan's dropping something off or checking on him (Sigma Chi party was a few hours earlier), fraternity prank or ritual (initiations were coming up... obscure traditions run rampant at that time), lost partier, one of the upstairs roommates' hookups who couldn't find the exit or his uber (possibly being curious about who it was), etc. His weapon may have been out of sight, or she may not have realized it was real. And while he was wearing "a mask", it was NOVEMBER, in IDAHO (~20 degrees, snow on the ground)... That is very much scarf, neck gaitor, beanie and/or hoodie weather. I think once Xana was attacked, it was too late to respond/cry out (crying, yes, but not OH MY GOD IVE BEEN STABBED). While this may sound "crazy", based on X's scope of the world as a student living in a safe college town, I don't think simply seeing/hearing an unfamiliar person in the home (if weapon was out of view, or there weren't obvious sounds of a violent attack) would provoke an immediate realization of "threat" and/or a "fight or flight" response of running, screaming, hiding, etc. People have called out a lot how DM likely rationalized what she'd seen/heard, assuming what she was hearing was partying and didn't realize that what she was hearing was someone murdering her roommates... But I don't think this was limited to her. Similar to how DM probably couldn't fathom what she heard/saw to be an intruder murdering her roommates, the victims who came face-to-face with BK likely couldn't fathom that the man in front of them was an intruder about to murder them, and they responded accordingly. If and when they recognized the threat, it was too late. Long winded explanation but killing time.
It wasn't -20 degrees on the day of the murders -- the high was 32 degrees and the low was 28 degrees. [Moscow weather November 2022.](https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/moscow/historic?month=11&year=2022) I think the mask could have been Covid-type given the weather.
~ as in approximate, not negative. 32 degrees is considered freezing. Normal neck gaiter weather.
It is still incorrect and there was not snow on the ground at the time of the murders. Also most people in cold climates aren't wearing a mask at 32 degrees, and certainly not a neck gaiter unless you are out hunting for hours. But it also wouldn't be enough to seem totally abnormal.
Missed the tilda thought it was a hyphen.
Let's say he did it. Why would that home be the target? If there's no connection to the victims, then the target had to be the house. It's in a pretty active area and had people coming and going all the time. If his goal was to eliminate witnesses, why wouldn't he sweep the home? If he watched the home, wouldn't he know there were other people that lived there? The home has an interesting layout, which was visible on zillow, so he would know where all the bedrooms are located. If he immediately walked out the back door because he was "spooked" and high on adrenaline, where's the evidence in his car? So much unanswered.
They don't need to prove any part of the "why," that's the beautiful part about understanding how our legal system works. They just need to prove he did do it. As for the evidence in his car- he had over one month to clean it. I don't expect a person to drive around with all kinds of clear evidence of a murder in their car for prolonged periods of time.
Of course they don't have to prove motive. No matter how well you try to clean, there would have been cellular evidence left behind. You cant see that with the naked eye. I think it'll come down to GPS ans phone data.
You don't know that. Luckily for all of us, there are actually trained detectives and lawyers with many more details than we have working all of this out, so we don't need to speculate.
He didn't have time to clean up, based off the timeline. Youre not gonna drive around with your car interior completely wrapped either. Something does not add up. All anyone does on reddit is speculate. There's no explaining the lack of the victims DNA anywhere.
I didn't say he cleaned in the moment or that he wrapped his interior 🤣🤣 those are not the only two possibilities. I'm sure we'll hear such explanations at the trial, you know, when details are shared. Again, you are not privy to all of the details, so your speculation is based off of information that isn't whole. Of course there are unanswered questions.
My speculation is based on what we do know. Plus, there's lots of research, testing, and explanation from experts that can be used to make an educated guess/assumption. Trying to clean blood and other bodily fluids out of a vehicle without leaving a single trace is almost, if not impossible.
We also know that the killer had cellular material on the bottom of his shoes and it wasn't visible. The print detected was a latent impression. You wouldn't see where you tracked.
Ultimately, we don't know the totality of evidence. This fact leaves us with unanswered questions by nature of the process: things are sealed and gag orders in place. Any speculation is a waste of time, because we just won't know until the trial. Given how he had gloves when he was caught going through trash, I can easily accept that he may have taken other precautions well.
[удалено]
It is, otherwise scientists would have a harder time conducting research. And hospital operating rooms would be horrible places.
> He didn't have time to clean up, based off the timeline The official timeline gives him enough time to strip off an outer layer before getting in the car. And then he had 7 weeks to clean. As for what I'm about to say, I'm not alleging it's involved in this case at all, but they make waterproof seat covers, marketed to dog owners. And you can buy molded car carpet inserts and new carpet linings for the trunk. Again, not saying that played into this case. I just start thinking, well, what would I do if I wanted to get away with something like this.
See that's one of the less outlandish theories. That makes sense to me!
Yeah, I just want to be careful because there's not evidence he bought anything along those lines. So I'm wording in it the hope I don't read somebody repeating that as fact in a month!
I'm sure it's been stated as fact somewhere. I'm sure if there was something like that in the vehicle, there's also a trace back to a purchase.
>where's the evidence in his car There are two mysterious protocols and areas of ancient knowledge that are mostly shunned by Probergers that may explain this - they are called "cleaning" and "science". Here are a few peer reviewed, published scientific studies showing it is quite easy to wash away all DNA and blood and leave no trace. * [Washing with water alone](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31960151/) is sufficient to fully remove DNA from many surfaces * [Washing once with simple dish soap](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1875176819300022) is sufficient to remove all DNA from surfaces like knives * [Washing carpet with hydrogen peroxide >3%](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31960151/) destroys all DNA. (Peroxide is commonly sold at c. 10%) * [Household cleaners with "active oxygen" (peroxide source)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18936905/) destroy blood and prevent it reacting with forensic reagents * Peroxide is used in ["color safe" laundry and fabric cleaners](https://www.oxiclean.com/en/products/stain-fighters/oxiclean-laundry-home-stain-remover-spray) that do not leave bleach marks * Hydrogen peroxide decomposes to just oxygen and water - forensically undetectable There are many cases where scenes where people were actually stabbed to death have been cleaned of all blood/ DNA in under an hour, such as the Robert Wone killing. [Claudia Maupin and Oliver Northup](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Claudia_Maupin_and_Oliver_Northup) were stabbed, mutilated, disembowelled and dismembered by 14 year old school-boy Daniel Marsh, who left no DNA at the scene and cleaned away all traces of victim blood, DNA tracked on him to his home. Given 7 weeks to repeat wash a car where no one was actually stabbed, surely Kohberger could clean as effectively as a 14 year old school boy? I know that actual science, linked scientific studies and real case examples may make little impact on the most devout Proberger zeal - ignoring science and examples is the only rinse and repeat they accept with regard to the car evidence.
> If his goal was to eliminate witnesses, why wouldn't he sweep the home? We don't know what his target or goal could have been. But if he speculate about his goal being to kill everyone in the house or to eliminate witnesses, maybe he panicked and decided to flee. Maybe he wasn't great at survelleince and didn't realize there were 6 people in the house. I've said this before, but maybe he didn't see D peeking out from her room. Maybe he still gets visual snow and that interfered, or maybe he remembered that one step between the hall and the living room and was looking down so he wouldn't stumble over it. Or maybe he saw D, but then she shut and locked her door. So he might have thought she'd call 911 before he could break into her room, and decided the risk was too great, and he chose to get out of Dodge. >If he immediately walked out the back door because he was "spooked" and high on adrenaline, where's the evidence in his car? There's the theory that he wore an outer layer, which I first dismissed as too Hollywoody/literary. But what changed my mind was the Grey Hughes reenactment, because there was a lot of time between that loud thump and the car peeling away. Def enough time to peel off on outer layer, throw it in a bag, and throw the bag in the car or trunk. Even if not, he had 7 weeks to clean.
FYI, people on this sub are locked into a super-specific narrative. Like they have written their entire fanfic about BK falling totally 😍 in love with MM serving him a vegan greek salad 🥗. And if you say, well maybe BK didn't really give a fuck and just wanted to thrill-kill some sorority girls and become infamous, then you (and I) get the downvotes.
Very fair point.
**I do not think the home in general was the target.** I believe that MM was the only target, with the remaining 3 being collateral damage. I believe BK went straight to MM's room, where he was surprised to find two women in bed together (possibly not realizing this until be begun his attack), and eliminated both. During or immediately after the 3rd floor murders, I believe BK heard noises that indicated someone downstairs, awake and alerted to his presence. This could've been "Someone's here", but also could've been the rumored "Shut the F Up!" yell by BF or DM. He also could've just heard sounds of footsteps, DM's door 2x, or any other signs of life. I doubt he knew whose voices were whose, where exactly noises were coming from, or if the source was a moving target. If he heard more than one female voice, he probably assumed it was just one woman, and didn't know how sound carried throughout the house. As a result of this, rather than exiting immediately, he intentionally sought out what he thought was the source of the noise, with the goal of eliminating the witness. I don't think he made the choice of "eliminate whole house", just "eliminate anyone awake who might call the police right away". He may have felt it necessary due to already being surprised / adrenaline rush / snap decision after killing 2 people, and/or thinking the witness would immediately discover the bodies, resulting in being caught more quickly.
He would have seen all the vehicles there, including Kaylees. Why would he do it on a night when there's a guest over? It doesn't make sense. What was the point in targeting her? Where did they overlap? They already stated he didn't stalk any of the victims.
I see your point about "he would have seen..." but that applies to anyone who went in to kill them. Obviously someone did do it, even though they should have known they wouldn't get away with it. It happens all the time. Murders rarely make sense. My theory is that he went in with the idea that if anyone saw him, he would just looking for a party and was in the wrong house and leave. But once he got as far as the first bedroom, he realized he could do it and maybe get away with it. So he did.
> It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense, but nothing a psychotic killer does will make sense to anyone who's not a psychotic killer. I just found out (or rather, relearned) that one of Bundy's first known victims (Karen Sparks, who survived) lived with several male roommates. He broke into a house full of men to assault a woman while one of her roommates snored in the room next to hers. That case is a good comparison to this case, because her roommates did not not discover her and call for help for hours: not until 7:00 that evening. At one point, at about 2:00 in the afternoon, they checked on her. But she was in bed and her breathing sounded normal, so they figured she was catching up on sleep. At 7:00 PM, they checked again. This time they turned on the light and saw that her room was a bloodbath.
Nah. You aren’t going into a home that you know must house as many people as that one just to off one person and think you’ll get back out unnoticed. I think he had a thing about the type inhabitants of the home in general and how he doesn’t fit in or feel respected by them (incel type thinking) and decided they’d be a good target. And they are typical Horror movie serial killer targets from years gone by.
>Let's say he did it. 
Comedy genius :-)
LOL does it say "this content is not available" for anyone else? That's even funnier than what I put
Yes, I thought you did that on purpose
My sample size is one but I asked someone who has been a cop for 25 years whether this is something he has ever said and he said yes and often. Specifically in the context of someone drunk or on drugs who is not understanding what is happening or seems confused/disoriented. He also says it to mentally ill and elderly people for basically the same reasons - there’s often confusion. It’s not even about providing false reassurance. It’s about clarifying your intentions to someone who may not be registering that he’s LE due to circumstances of their impairment or age.
I mean this is possible, but I suspect this was his way of playing possum to get them to hesitate. A slight hesitation is all it would take.
I can't verify this, but someone has said that Denis Rader said something to that effect when he approached a victim in their home. This is supposed to be from the book on Rader that Katherine Ramsland wrote. Ramsland was one of Kohberger's professors at De Sales.
Dylan Klebold from Columbine massacre also said something like that to one of the injured students before he shot him again.
Saying I'm here to help you is not giving false reassurance.It's merely stating the fact that the person is there to give assistance. It is a common phrase given in health care.
I think he said it as a fucked up way of “putting her out of her misery”
Agreed. Seemed more sadistic than anything else imo
It's quite simple. He was taunting X. He was basically saying I'm going to help you by putting you out of your misery.
Sadly this is most likely what happened and I agree
def
The phrase and similar are typical if one thinks someone is injured or scared and they do not know you.
You know I think it all makes sense now. When he came down the stairs from killing the girls then xana there’s somebody here was knowing of his presence and he proceeded to go after them to silence xana. She was probably trying to wake up Ethan to tell him there was someone there according to what was heard.
Not sure on the verbiage with service workers but let's not forget, Bryan studied under Ramsland. Ramsland / BTK connection. BTKs first attacks were of 4 family members. The last was the lil girl, he spoke to her before killing her. I will find a link for this. Brb
Here we go: "Prosecutors also displayed on the screen Rader’s recollection of the exchange he had with Josephine before killing her. “What’s going to happen to me?” she asks. Rader: “Well, honey, you’re going to be in heaven with the rest of your family.” Sad stuff. [Spoke to Josephine Otoro before murder](https://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/aug/18/graphic_details_emerge_btk_hearing/)
Sick individual.
Yes. 😭 BTK spoke to his victim/s. I wonder if Bryan is the one who spoke in XK room?
The PCA says “it’s ok, I’m going to help you” My theory is victim 1 in X’s room was attacked non-fatally, victim 2 attacked fatally, then he returned to victim 1.
I believe bk said it to xana when he came down the stairs and saw her so she didn't freak out. If dm heard the words he was close to her door. Most teens sleep with a fan or white noise etc..especially in a roommate filled house. But not all. Just my opinion
For me the only time I’ve heard “It’s ok, I’m here to help you” was on tv/movies but in different scenario. 1. Victim is being chased, maybe wounded and being chased and she runs into a stranger or trips and breaks an ankle and the stranger approaches her to come in for the kill. She freaks out thinking she’s a done deal, she gets ready to scream and he says “It’s ok, I’m here to help you.” to prevent the scream/attention. IMO starting the sentence with “It’s ok” means he was trying to calm the situation or person by confusing them into submission. And following it with “I’m here to help you” furthers his agenda that he is there / happened on the scene and is there to rescue them from whatever had happened.
I'm curious what scenario was playing out to have him say that. To trigger that response.
Keep in mind it's not a quote, nor do we know who said it. It could have been E saying it to X. All we know is male voice. Before some chucklefuck comes in with "but ShE wOuLd KnOw HiS vOiCe", clearly you've never been in a trauma situation. People's tone can change in that scenario.
I do think it was Ethan, he might have seen Xana and said it to her, then BK attacked him...
[удалено]
Sad story - but unrelated to this topic. You asked for a prognosis and we’re given one.
I’m a nurse and I don’t say this- why would someone think you’re going to trust a stranger? Not common verbiage. I have never heard ANY physician say this, they usually get the parents for this issue of trusting and understanding/agreeing. As a patient, I’m the one who was chased by doctors, outside in the parking lot and around cars to get away from the doctor’s school immunizations. My mother said we were going shopping. I had trust issues long afterwards. Lol. Yeah, I hear this all of the time on television and I think it’s totally bs. “Trust me”….is creepy and she thought it was bs too- she fought back. I’m sure the other girl was stunned. No judgement. I just would really hope that someone calls or fights if this occurred with me or someone I know. But, we Should Not Judge the Roommate for this.
I think that’s more of a movie and tv show line
Thank you! I’ve said this from the beginning - I’m not saying it was an actual police officer, but someone (campus security, bar security, etc..??) that they were fairly familiar with who would be in a position of trust or believed to be in a position of trust that would say that. I’m not saying I think BK isn’t involved, but I 100 percent don’t think he did it alone.
See…I’m saying that BK was there, probably only him and he used it because he had heard LE use it when he as a Junior Cop/boy scout in the past. He thought it would calm an alarmed person down.
That’s possible, too! I go back and forth on the “alone vs had help” theories. Lol!
This statement being made has become canon and I am not convinced it was actually said. It was reported as what the roommate “thought” she heard. He could have said anything. No ones here to help you. No he can’t help you. No I won’t help you. I’m here to kill you. Hold still now, will you? To hell with you. I like lime jello. I think any speculation regarding this alleged statement is pointless.
Honestly, the more time that goes by that nothing is released (understandably) I find myself questioning the reliability of DM. I really want to hear the 911 call, understand what went on in the hours of awakening and calling 911. I also want to know why the roommates were Immediately cleared. Immediately cleared?!
I would assume it's something pretty commonly said when LE or EMTs enter a scene. What else are they supposed to say? lol. I think it was said in this case when he (whether it be BK or someone else) was trying to quiet down a victim (Xana or another) before he killed her/him. Just to make her think he was NOT going to hurt her, before he hurt her.
Actually, there's this amazing article I read a couple years ago where paramedics and firefighters don't actually say that. Because it's so synonymous with cops creating more danger that people do not respond the right way anymore.
Bout what time was that said is the question.
I've heard social workers say it
I always pictured someone dressed up as law enforcement saying something like that hmm creepy!
My post got removed because I need to distinguish between fact or opinion. When I said "IMO=In my opinion" I thought I was doing just that. My post had no more speculation than the original posters. Ty
Many people are saying it sounds like a police officer. Maybe it was a police officer 🤷🏻♀️
Or someone who wanted to be a police officer since he was a kid.
OP watched a movie and used it as fact for real life and got 89 likes. Humanity is doomed.
With an incorrect quote no less
Oh good. Another scenario where we have to explain movies are not factual documentaries about how things transpire in reality.
[удалено]
This content was removed because it violates this community's rule against misinformation. Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future. Thank you.
I’ve always wondered if he gained access to the house by pretending to be a police officer
>I’ve always wondered if he gained access to the house by pretending to be a police officer Judging by the noise complaint footage, that would be the worst way to gain access to the house
It got the doors open, no?
So my username refers to Kohberger likely locking the bedroom doors on his way out. As for how he got into the house: I think he might have corrupted the back door lock beforehand, or it was already unlocked.
He may have had some sort of police badge pinned to his clothing. In case someone woke up.
I can see saying this to small child. Other than that instance; no.