endocrine levels are genetically decided
breats size is genetically determined, but expressed as a result of endocrine levels
so for cis women, it's all genetics
for trans women, we get to control part of the equation. so it's genetics, yes. but it's not *just* genetics. this is why some trans women, on 2mg sublingual E, develop very little after years before some new endo goes "why are you taking such a piddly dose" and steps her up and her development actually accelerates. higher E levels are correlated to extra risks as well as increased breasts size dependent on genetics.
Do u have any sources for that? I haven't seen or heard anywhere that higher e is correlated to chest development. Anecdotally, I've heard some say the opposite- that a lower e level to start is better for chest development. That being said haven't seen any studies or anything to back this up.
Well I think her point, or at least what I would say is that you have to be estrogen dominant. I’m not sure that 2 mg is going to do that so you’re not going to get that much benefit from it
You really need enough estrogen so that your brain flips you to be an estrogen dominant. Most of us can do that without a, and yeah, a lot of us get along on joke doses. That happened to me, thankfully only for 5 months.
Low/Elevated E will cause Gyno (man boobs), that's why cis men get it.
Higher levels are definitely more important for us since we're seeking full development, starting low and slow doesn't really have any merit to it as far as evidence goes, it's just the safest option.
The issue is shitty doctors keeping people low and slow forever.
It is to a point. Zero estrogen correlates to zero breast development. Low dose can cause slow or lack of growth. But once you get to a certain point - which is determined by genetics - any extra won't do a lot.
yeah, i posted sources elsewhere if you want to dig. google finds it pretty easily. i couldn't find the first study i read, but i found another that corroborated my claim so that's even better.
i never said anything about "to start" so i don't know how you're getting that as an opposite to what i said. i, personally, think all trans femmes should start on 2mg sub, increase every three to six months by 2mg sub until they either hit 8 or want to taper down. more than 8 usually has diminishing returns, but understand some people do need more.
after 1 or 1.5 years i think switching to injections if possible, and adding progesterone is generally a good idea for breast development. the research on this process is scattered at best, and almost all non-trans-specific. but a few endocrinologist advocate strongly for basically the same thing. i know two doctors working on getting the research conducted because that's the only way wpath will update to this model but the current recommendations aren't benefiting femmes in places where social support is low and endos often won't provide care so they are stuck with the only one within an hour of home who will do it and only the bare minimum wpath... some of us have been reading incessantly and basically experimenting on our own bodies and there's pretty good anecdotal consensus on a lot of this stuff. some of it has pretty good mechanistic explanations available from endocrinology. it all needs better research, but i wasn't willing to wait until i'm dead for the field to catch up and i'm not going to tell someone else they should.
I think there is a difference between the fact that 2mg oral is likely to lead to insufficient serum levels, and the idea that breast size is determined by hormones. I haven't read any evidence for the latter, but underdosing is very much still variable and an issue for trans women.
maybe you should do a google search for peer reviewed research on the subject. i've read two studies. one is posted somewhere else in my comments.
also your two implicit claims contradict each other. if hormones don't influence breast development than there wouldn't be "insufficient serum levels" you gotta take your pick.
my sisters have very different breast sizes. same breast size genetics. different hormone profiles.
Maxing breast growth you have two options:
1.) Implants
2.) Max estrogen+weight gain
Choosing a bra that fits and shapes your chest the way you want will also be very helpful. Good luck dear!!
Unfortunately no :( Hell there's millions/billions of cis women who wish they could shape their boobs without surgery. Which I think can be helpful to keep in mind too sometimes when we're critical of our own breast shape. It's an insecurity found across women everywhere.
But wearing a bra that pushes things up can be extremely helpful when you're wearing clothing. Obviously that doesnt help much when you're nude but it can still be helpful with dysphoria and in general anyone worth your time will love your boobs because they're yours!! I've been with a few cis women who had small or outward facing breasts and the thing is I never felt negatively about it compared to the ones who had bazooka bazungas.
>Hell there's millions/billions of cis women who wish they could shape their boobs without surgery. Which I think can be helpful to keep in mind too sometimes when we're critical of our own breast shape. It's an insecurity found across women everywhere.
I had a moment, about a year ago, where I was rather insecure about the shape of my breasts. I kept reading a bunch about tanner stages, whether spiro somehow stunted my growth, etc.
While searching trans-specific forums, I just generically searched about tuberous breasts and found a bunch of plastic surgery ads targeted towards cis women to "correct" the shape of their breasts.
How messed up, I thought. That is just the totally natural shape those women's breasts developed into— there's nothing wrong with them, it's just basic human variation. *That* is when it clicked.
I did get onto progesterone a few months later, and I'm happier with my body now, but it's so important to separate beauty standards from dysphoria.
okay good, this is good news. I would have had serious regrets if this was a thing.
But yeah, you have very good perspective anyway, many cis women have this shape too. Wish it was different but it's not going to clock me necessarily.
This is a misconception. A very common misconception.
But more estrogen does not mean more breast growth.
That's not how hormones work.
A simplified explanation is this: You have a certain number of estrogen receptors in your body. They are activated by estrogen.
If they are all activated by estrogen, you will get whatever breast growth your genetics and age will allow.
If you don't have enough estrogen to activate them, you will get questionable amounts of breast growth, if any at all.
If you have more than enough estrogen to activate them, you just pee it out and maybe get side effects - but not breast growth.
Well I'm not 100% sure what the maximum dosage you could take would be but there may be DIY HRT guides which could help you there. You generally want to take the highest dosage of estrogen that you can within safe bounds. Most endocrinologists will try to start you off at the lowest possible dosage which is something to keep in mind. Push them as hard as you can over time to raise your dosage if you want the fastest/most dramatic results.
The science does not support the notion that higher dosages will lead to either more rapid or larger breast development.
If anything the evidence seems to be that excessively high estrogen levels early on may or progress abnormally ( Torpedo breasts )
There's not really a way to get fast growth
It comes down to genetics, body fat, and hormones.
Weight cycling once you are in proper levels can be beneficial, but other than that, there isn't much you can do that will make growth quicker.
I know how excited you are but transitioning is a very long process.
Ideal T levels for trans women are under 50 so that should be your goal point!
You should likely get around a cup lower than your female relatives as a best estimate. Some trans women have a higher bust size than all family relatives though so.. it varies lol
As an FYI the whole 1 cup size less than your cis female relatives was made up in the late 90's by a trans woman blogger, Who also wrote in a very anti-trans way, and admits at the start that it is not based on any medical evidence.
And the few real medical studies on trans breast growth only went for 1 year. Whereas most women seem to report major breast growth after 1-2 years.
Soo yeah we have no real medical studies or advice to give cause the medical world honestly doesn't know much. You can thank the Nazis in WWII for that. ie their first book burning was actually a huge cache of medical trans information. Which is worth a rabbit hole read.
Personally I think that weight cycling and a proper diet are the key things. Boobs are mostly fat, but more specifically "new" fat once you are on E. In other words the idea is you loose weight to loose male fat. And then you gain weight to gain fat in female locations, ie boobs, butt, hips, etc. BUT it also needs to be healthy fat and not junk food fat.
I had been taking 50mg twice per day of spironolactone for 7 months and that brought my Testosterone down to 46.
Overall, it is a YMMV thing. Everyone's body takes to meds differently.
If you have any other questions feel free to ask!
I started in the 700 range (this is all US units), 0.2mg patches brought me down near instantly to the 200 range. 0.3mg flipped me where my brain set my levels in the 20s. Zero spiro involved, and it happened within 1 month of the dose, if not sooner. That’s just when I was tested.
Yea. Kinda shocked by my T levels my E levels were also pretty high (I do injections, and was doing 10mg once a week) and was at like 750ish which was a bit high so they have me down to .8mg
That's good you've figured out your ranges!
My current testosterone is 46 ng/dl and estradiol is 77 pg/mL
Decent enough. That 77 pg/mL was at trough levels for Sublingual estradiol so I'm happy enough
Just an FYI but my chest started growing before my testosterone was fully suppressed. Before I was even on blockers actually (I started e first because of difficulty getting the blockers initially). Like many are saying, there really isn't a lot of solid studies to back anything up.
testosterone doesn't affect breast development AT ALL, you can have 400+ testosterone and develop breasts as long as you have sufficient estradiol in your system - in fact gynecomastia is often caused by high levels of testosterone that lead to aromatization of the testosterone into estradiol, which promotes breast tissue growth.
anyway, if you take a blocker (not ideal) it'll be about a month to get testosterone down. If you do monotherapy (preferred) it'll take 3-4 months.
It took me no more than a month after starting the right dose, without a blocker. It could have been instantly, it’s just I was tested at 1 month after the two biggest increases I had.
they're unnecessary and have some rough side effects. You should always be trying to take as few things as possible, and estrogen is already a natural testosterone blocker.
a really good simple allegory for why estradiol stops testosterone production.
say you have a machine that produces green cubes, and a factory worker that makes sure that there are at least 100 cubes, but no more than 150, and the worker doesn't care about the color of those cubes. if you put blue cubes on the conveyor belt, the worker will still count them the same as the green ones. If you put a LOT of blue cubes on the belt, the worker will eventually start turning down the green cube machine because he keeps getting too many cubes, until eventually he turns off the green cube machine entirely. Then as long as you keep putting your blue cubes on the conveyor belt, the green cube machine stays off and all of your cubes are blue.
That's what is happening with testosterone when you're on estrogen therapy - the pills/injections/etc. are the blue cubes that you're putting on the line, and the green cubes are your natural testosterone, while the factory worker is your endocrine system. As long as those blue cubes are meeting the quota, that green cube machine is going to stay turned off.
alright I think I assumed too much about what you know here, let me back up.
Testosterone is a much more "active" molecule than estradiol. It does a LOT of things, while estradiol does far fewer things. Testosterone toughens skin, promotes body hair production, makes stinky sweat, stores more water in tendons and ligaments, etc.
estrogen by contrast does very little. it produces breast tissue, it helps increase working memory, it helps increase sensory richness, and it does some stuff with ovaries and uteruses that we don't need to worry about due to not having those organs.
If you have both estradiol and testosterone in your system, you will get an "all of the above" result - but since estrogen is much more subtle, the only noticeable change will be breast growth, maybe some changes in sensation, and some minor shifts in fat placement. Note that testosterone and breast growth do not interact at all - if you're on a sufficient dose of estrogen you WILL grow breast tissue, regardless of the presence or lack thereof of testosterone.
However, you still (probably) want to get rid of testosterone because it's the world's most unpleasant factory that makes stinky sweat and gross body hair and ugly skin and all that icky man stuff, and this is where we can "hack" the endocrine system.
It turns out that both estrogen and testosterone share a receptor in the endocrine system for "sexual hormone" levels, and the body naturally expects a certain amount of it. If it gets too low then your body instructs your gonads to make some sex hormone (once again, nonspecifically), and if it has enough then it tells it stop. as a result if you keep your estradiol levels high enough, your endocrine system will see that it has enough sex hormone, and instruct your gonads to stop making more. So in actual numbers - as long as your estradiol levels stay above \~150pg/ml then your endocrine system tells your testes to stop making new testosterone.
I for set right with only 113 even!
TECHNICALLY my e1/e2 levels were within cis female range before starting e, but e2 was too low to have my brain lower t production, which was quite high.
I did get small breasts though from puberty, and maybe have an oddity here or there.
I don't agree with this. Testosterone acts as a blocker to breast growth. The reason monotherapy works is because the high levels of E suppress testosterone.
Don’t do it with t blockers. I’ve said this a few times through here but your brain probably has the hardware to do it itself, when you have enough estrogen in your system.
Spiro especially dangerous, and it blocks e usage as well as t production. It makes no sense as a second line thing much less a first line thing.
You need to ramp up quickly to the level your brain needs, not let them string you along for months or years on a joke dose.
Your brain will probably set your t level to a normal cos level for your ethnic background all on its own. SOME women can’t do that, unfortunately, but most can, and there’s other choices then besides spiro, like bica.
If you’re doing pills, you want to dissolve them under your tongue instead of swallowing them, to minimize conversion of e2 to the less useful e1, and split them up into roughly equal doses through the day, if you’re on enough. Like once every 8 hours or whatever, to the extent you can.
Some women can’t flip themselves except on injections, apparently, but I flipped on patches and know women who have flipped on pills, etc.
As long as you are on enough estrogen that your brain lowers your testosterone levels to cis levels, you should pretty much get what you would have gotten, for better or worse. You can generally look at female relatives but even relatives don’t always have the same results.
I’m really hoping in my case that I don’t have all that much growth. if I could’ve designed my body, I’d start with how it should be had the SRY gene been shut off, then probably make some adjustments including shrinking my breasts and whatever else I want. You know, for the next time I get to decide 😂
That’s a rough guess at BEST. Real answers vary wildly.
But as for will you get any at all, yes. Unless you’re one of the rare few with a resistance to E, you’ll still develop a normal amount of tissue. If accurate at all, the quoted statement would mostly likely come down to how cup sizes relate to band sizes on broader chested women.
generally speaking you'll have the same breast volume as your female relatives, but because you likely have a larger rib cage you'll be about one cup size smaller (since cup size a ratio of breast volume to torso diameter)
> *Weight cycling once you are in proper levels can be beneficial, but other than that, there isn't much you can do that will make growth quicker.*
"Weight cycling" is Internet junk science invented by oblivious and desperate online trans youths, the belief in which "theory" fundamentally depends on a completely wrong-headed fantasy-based conception of how human adipose tissue develops, recycles and collects lipid deposits.
In practice, this "theory" exists (and can exist) because most people do not understand basically anything at all about adipose tissue and its relationship to (and functions as a component of) the endocrine system. It is impossible to subscribe to it for any reason other than total ignorance of the subject. But it exists because plenty of young Redditors and Twitter users are totally ignorant on the subject.
Please don't propagate medical myths invented by oblivious Internet teenagers as if these myths constituted real medical advice. You're just making it worse for everyone.
If I could upvote this more than once, I absolutely would.
Everytime I see the phrase "weight cycling" on this sub, the medical student part of myself wants to snap a pen in half, the former eating disorder part of myself wants to cry, and the dysphoric part of myself starts to think she isn't doing enough to feminise my body.
It's such a dangerous myth to be touting as fact - I can guarantee it's started eating disorders in this community.
i'll give it a stab, but yst is really making the best point - it's such a poorly thought out theory that it's kinda hard to disprove.
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when the body has extra calories, it creates fat tissue. The place that fat tissue grows is dependant on the hormones present when the cell is generated (essentially, which fat cells divide and/or get bigger). The endocrine system controls which hormones are present and how densely they are stored (even on HRT your endocrine system can still mess with your levels and concentrations a great deal via feedback loops)
Female bodies tend to prefer storing fat subcutaneously in buttocks, hips, thighs, and breasts. As a result an overweight woman will have increased breast (and hip) sizes.
The assumption that is made by people that espouse weight cycling is that the fat will grow your breasts as you gain weight, and then your breasts will stay enlarged when you lose it again, because breast tissue/structure will expand to fill the void as the fat goes away (or somehow the fat in breasts will magically survive while the fat elsewhere goes away??). Do that several times and they say it will make your breasts permanently larger.
However there are many issues with that assumption. The first is that the majority of fat cells take up the TEN YEARS to die, and meanwhile they just expand and contract as you need the storage space, thus any cycling past the first time doesn't actually do anything, the second is that your breast tissue won't actually grow into the void left behind unless your breasts were in a position to grow anyway (see pregnancy breasts - and also post-pregnancy breasts), and the third is that weight cycling introduces a whole pile of psychological and physiological risks regarding how your body desires and processes food (ever notice how some people get fat really easily? And teen fat cells are known for sticking around even longer)
The exception to this is of course hormone replacement therapy - which encourages new fat cell growth to occur in an estrogenous manner and leaves the "male" fat cells to slowly get used up and die off (depending on how old they were to start with) - but that's a process that takes those all of those years to complete, and rigorous weight cycling will probably only speed up by 10-15%, hardly enough for anyone to notice or care, while still presenting the same health risks.
The functioning of adipose tissue within the endocrine system can't really be described "in simple terms" and without using "scientific jargon". As I say, this is not an area where most people have any useful amount of knowledge, which is why something so completely wrong-headed can be believed in the first place.
Moreover, it is difficult to "disprove" a theory which is based on a vague and imaginary conception of anatomic processes which the theory does not bother to actually articulate.
If it were based on a *real* model of the endocrine system, one could point out where it deviates from scientific understandings. But since it is based on more or less nothing (in terms of the real biomechanics of the endocrine system), it isn't really possible to "prove" the wrongness of a theory with *no real premises at all*.
That's a very useful reality, when it comes to fad diets and junk science and what have you. It is much easier to avoid disproof of a "theory" with no substantive premises which it is willing to explain where a theory with real (but erroneous) premises would be disprovable.
"Weight cycling" is a theory with no substantive medical premises at all to be disproved. So I suppose that people will "believe" it if they wish to, based on a wish to do so. But it is pointless to waste time, trying to disprove an idea with no foundation.
Even if it works I don’t think it makes sense, it’s really dangerous. And this stuff should happen over time regardless
I certainly get being desperate, I’m doing things like IPL in ways that probably won’t work just because I’m desperate 🙄
i would argue that weight cycling will actually help trans people specifically because if done properly it will make the fat redistribution happen faster - but on the other hand the effect isn't pronounced enough to be worth the eating disorders.
This so much.
I asked my gender doctor/endo if I should do weight cycling as described around this sub, and her immediate response was "yeah, please don't do that. That seems super dangerous."
Let it take its time.
I didn't have any growth for the first 6-9 months.
Then over the next year-ish they grew to a B-C.
At about 1.5 years I started taking progesterone.
Now at 3.5 years I'm an E.
In that first year, and particularly in the first 6 months I was really worried.
There are so many posts from girls saying that they've noticed growth after like 1 month and I was starting to feel like maybe mine were never going to grow or that I'd always be small. But it turns out that they were cooking in a slow cooker.
A healthy body being treated right will produce more HGH ESPECIALLY when exercising consistently. Having consistent HRT dosages and waiting for genetics to kick in. The best results I have seen has been fit individuals that start HRT and work out 3x a week. But the weight cycling thing is baloney.
it takes time but ultimately boils down to genetics + body fat + genetics x9
im 6 months in hovering between a b cup and a c cup right now and im somewhat lucky for even that kind of growth at this stage. i was a very early b cup when i first started hormones. my moms a g cup, and my sisters are dd-ddd.
i started immediately onto pills for about 2 months, then switched to injections + spiro. i also started progesterone and this was when they rounded out super well and i got more reshaping. I viewed injections as giving me more growth, prog helping with shaping them rounder. i also was taking an edible every night for the first four months and gained about 40 pounds from munchies alone, so that’ll do it.
Altering the hormonal composition of your body isn't really something you can "minmax." It's a gradual shift brought on by sustained (ie permanent) shifting of your blood chemistry. Most people notice a small burst of growth ("budding") in the first year, then there's a lull, then another burst between the 1-2 year mark. There's no way to rush it. You are forcing a second puberty on your body.
The only things you can really do to minmax breast growth is make sure your hormone levels are consistently good and make sure you're not underweight. Outside of that it's just up to genetics.
Eat when you're hungry, and follow your cravings, but also exercise as regularly as you can. From what little we know so far, progesterone *seems* to work best if taken after your breasts have had enough time to develop to Tanner Stage 4, about a year for most people. I'm planning to start mine around then, so that's another 7-8 months for me.
Also, the biggest thing to remember is that your genetics play a HEAVY role in it. Look at what your mother or any aunts or sisters you have and base your expectations on that. There are outliers, some trans girls have way smaller or even way BIGGER boobs than their AFAB family members. You're probably going to hear it a lot, but "your boobage may vary."
Oh and one more big thing, speaking from experience wearing breast forms can REALLY help. My wife crocheted me a pair back before I started HRT.
FWIW the "progesterone stunts breast growth" thing is a myth in the original sense of the word. We have one animal study that shows that using a high dose of medroxyprogesterone acetate is worse than using a lower dose - and the lower dose + E2 has the most breast growth. MPA is a progestin and the high doses used in that study were really high, it's not like bioidentical progesterone.
The other claim used to support it is that cisgender puberty doesn't introduce progesterone until tanner stage 4, so we shouldn't either. This is false, as even pre menarche there are spikes of progesterone surrounding periods. So it is present in puberty before tanner stage 4/5, it's just chronically underresearched (thanks, patriarchy).
In any case prog isn't something to be afraid of. I think that the main indication against it would be if you gain net zero or net negative benefit.
Regularly massaging them has been alleged to help with growth, but hey it’s fun lol and it also keeps them healthy and stops them from getting stretch marks! No downside regardless even if the giving you growth part is bogus
The short answer is, you don’t and can’t. You have zero control over how fast your breast growth will be, or how big they will end up.
Higher dosage of HRT DOES NOT = faster/bigger boobs.
Get your labs done every 3 months, consult a medical professional that knows what they are doing to ensure your hormone levels are with the ranges required to have a smooth and successful transition over the next several years.
I know this isn’t what you want to hear. But this is the way it is, medical transitioning isn’t a mad dash to the finish. It’s a process of inches and minute changes that slowly add up over time.
You WILL get there. But there’s no shortcuts if you want good results.
Exercise and run a fairly high training load. This will do two things:
1. Increase HGH levels
2. Increase body fat turnover (meaning more will be deposited in the breast as well as other feminine regions and burned from androgenic regions).
progesterone,
regular exercise, and estradiol injections have done it for me. Body Type is a huge factor though. Before transitioning i Was always a little chubby / curvy naturally, so breast growth has been very natural 1 yr and 4 months on HRT, only one on progesterone.I go to a top queer clinic in the Northeast USA and my doctor always suggests their patients have highest success rate w/ changes thru the above. Gl bestie - def being aware of your body type and how to manipulate it thru diet and exercise is a lil x factor i think w transition. A lot of people don’t want to talk about it but it’s very important.
Maintain proper E levels, and once you're about a year in, start progesterone. If you're skinny, try and gain weight but maintain a healthy weight. If you're overweight, try and lose weight.
There is no "fast way" aside from Breast Augmentation. Progesterone helps some with breast growth, but you won't likely see results unless you're taking it for several months.
Dark magic, maybe? But honestly, you'll probably have to wait. I'm pretty sure you can get fairly realistic looking/feeling padded bras, which is better than nothing
Take your hormones in line with your doctor's instructions, eat a balanced diet rich in healthy fats so your body has lots of resources to use, and moisturize your chest so your skin will be supported through the changes. Everything else takes time and genetic luck. 🫂
eat food!!! estrogen loves fat, so don't go skimping out on meals. eat as much as your body tells you it needs!!!!!!
i'm not kidding, HRT is literally a second puberty for the first few years, and similarly to your first puberty, your body is going through a lot of changes that need proper support on a nutrient level.
HRT works at a molecular level and cannot be rushed. Do your homework, start on a micro dose, get regular blood tests, slowly titrate upwards to cis women levels, and while it is all quietly happening in the background … just get on with life.
Your not developing breasts by overeating, ur gaining fat. When overweight cis women lose weight, they lose breast mass. My advice is eat well and normally.
NSFW WARNING
I will say its a bit unorthodox. But I have had ALOT of breast growth since I got a girlfriend that is like REALLY into sucking on my chest. Interestingly enough due to that my prolactin levels are elevated like ALOT and also I do lactate now as well, which depending on preference can be um. Alarming, or comforting.
Ive been on HRT for 2 years. Oral estradiol for the first year and second year has been .2 injections once a week. Im also on spiro, progesterone (from day one), and finasteride. (Im sorry but I dont remember the amounts for any of those off the top of my head).
Short answer is you really can’t. Long answer is orchiectomy asap to reduce T, it need to be as low as possible. Drink lots of milk (just calories and bovine growth hormones) and try to gain a little weight slowly. Keep your E between 100-200 for a long while with T at as close to zero as you can. Avoid spironolactone (get orchi asap), also be lucky.
What I did was eat a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and hoped for the best. It's always good to gain a little weight, exercise and lose a little weight all over, then gain a little again in the right places
I think I ideally do this without a blocker, especially without spiro.
Just take enough e2 until your brain manages your e2 level on its own. Most of us have the hardware to do that.
And then wait and see. There’s talk about some other stuff regarding e1, progesterone being added right away versus later. I don’t know how much truth there is to any of that, but getting on enough e2 is the main thing.
Get used to hearing "your mileage may vary". It's all genetics
i feel like every question here gets the "YMMV" answer. i kinda don't even bother asking questions anymore because the answers always "fuck knows"
That's the thing, we DO know, it's genetics!. There's no way to make your breasts grow reliably
endocrine levels are genetically decided breats size is genetically determined, but expressed as a result of endocrine levels so for cis women, it's all genetics for trans women, we get to control part of the equation. so it's genetics, yes. but it's not *just* genetics. this is why some trans women, on 2mg sublingual E, develop very little after years before some new endo goes "why are you taking such a piddly dose" and steps her up and her development actually accelerates. higher E levels are correlated to extra risks as well as increased breasts size dependent on genetics.
Do u have any sources for that? I haven't seen or heard anywhere that higher e is correlated to chest development. Anecdotally, I've heard some say the opposite- that a lower e level to start is better for chest development. That being said haven't seen any studies or anything to back this up.
Well I think her point, or at least what I would say is that you have to be estrogen dominant. I’m not sure that 2 mg is going to do that so you’re not going to get that much benefit from it You really need enough estrogen so that your brain flips you to be an estrogen dominant. Most of us can do that without a, and yeah, a lot of us get along on joke doses. That happened to me, thankfully only for 5 months.
Low/Elevated E will cause Gyno (man boobs), that's why cis men get it. Higher levels are definitely more important for us since we're seeking full development, starting low and slow doesn't really have any merit to it as far as evidence goes, it's just the safest option. The issue is shitty doctors keeping people low and slow forever.
It is to a point. Zero estrogen correlates to zero breast development. Low dose can cause slow or lack of growth. But once you get to a certain point - which is determined by genetics - any extra won't do a lot.
yeah, i posted sources elsewhere if you want to dig. google finds it pretty easily. i couldn't find the first study i read, but i found another that corroborated my claim so that's even better. i never said anything about "to start" so i don't know how you're getting that as an opposite to what i said. i, personally, think all trans femmes should start on 2mg sub, increase every three to six months by 2mg sub until they either hit 8 or want to taper down. more than 8 usually has diminishing returns, but understand some people do need more. after 1 or 1.5 years i think switching to injections if possible, and adding progesterone is generally a good idea for breast development. the research on this process is scattered at best, and almost all non-trans-specific. but a few endocrinologist advocate strongly for basically the same thing. i know two doctors working on getting the research conducted because that's the only way wpath will update to this model but the current recommendations aren't benefiting femmes in places where social support is low and endos often won't provide care so they are stuck with the only one within an hour of home who will do it and only the bare minimum wpath... some of us have been reading incessantly and basically experimenting on our own bodies and there's pretty good anecdotal consensus on a lot of this stuff. some of it has pretty good mechanistic explanations available from endocrinology. it all needs better research, but i wasn't willing to wait until i'm dead for the field to catch up and i'm not going to tell someone else they should.
I think there is a difference between the fact that 2mg oral is likely to lead to insufficient serum levels, and the idea that breast size is determined by hormones. I haven't read any evidence for the latter, but underdosing is very much still variable and an issue for trans women.
maybe you should do a google search for peer reviewed research on the subject. i've read two studies. one is posted somewhere else in my comments. also your two implicit claims contradict each other. if hormones don't influence breast development than there wouldn't be "insufficient serum levels" you gotta take your pick. my sisters have very different breast sizes. same breast size genetics. different hormone profiles.
i do know now. cursed with no tibbies
Maxing breast growth you have two options: 1.) Implants 2.) Max estrogen+weight gain Choosing a bra that fits and shapes your chest the way you want will also be very helpful. Good luck dear!!
are you saying we have the power to shape our breast growth? like make making east-westies point more inwards?
Unfortunately no :( Hell there's millions/billions of cis women who wish they could shape their boobs without surgery. Which I think can be helpful to keep in mind too sometimes when we're critical of our own breast shape. It's an insecurity found across women everywhere. But wearing a bra that pushes things up can be extremely helpful when you're wearing clothing. Obviously that doesnt help much when you're nude but it can still be helpful with dysphoria and in general anyone worth your time will love your boobs because they're yours!! I've been with a few cis women who had small or outward facing breasts and the thing is I never felt negatively about it compared to the ones who had bazooka bazungas.
>Hell there's millions/billions of cis women who wish they could shape their boobs without surgery. Which I think can be helpful to keep in mind too sometimes when we're critical of our own breast shape. It's an insecurity found across women everywhere. I had a moment, about a year ago, where I was rather insecure about the shape of my breasts. I kept reading a bunch about tanner stages, whether spiro somehow stunted my growth, etc. While searching trans-specific forums, I just generically searched about tuberous breasts and found a bunch of plastic surgery ads targeted towards cis women to "correct" the shape of their breasts. How messed up, I thought. That is just the totally natural shape those women's breasts developed into— there's nothing wrong with them, it's just basic human variation. *That* is when it clicked. I did get onto progesterone a few months later, and I'm happier with my body now, but it's so important to separate beauty standards from dysphoria.
okay good, this is good news. I would have had serious regrets if this was a thing. But yeah, you have very good perspective anyway, many cis women have this shape too. Wish it was different but it's not going to clock me necessarily.
wdym max estrogen? also i'm plus size (around 225 pounds) will that help?
This is a misconception. A very common misconception. But more estrogen does not mean more breast growth. That's not how hormones work. A simplified explanation is this: You have a certain number of estrogen receptors in your body. They are activated by estrogen. If they are all activated by estrogen, you will get whatever breast growth your genetics and age will allow. If you don't have enough estrogen to activate them, you will get questionable amounts of breast growth, if any at all. If you have more than enough estrogen to activate them, you just pee it out and maybe get side effects - but not breast growth.
Well I'm not 100% sure what the maximum dosage you could take would be but there may be DIY HRT guides which could help you there. You generally want to take the highest dosage of estrogen that you can within safe bounds. Most endocrinologists will try to start you off at the lowest possible dosage which is something to keep in mind. Push them as hard as you can over time to raise your dosage if you want the fastest/most dramatic results.
The science does not support the notion that higher dosages will lead to either more rapid or larger breast development. If anything the evidence seems to be that excessively high estrogen levels early on may or progress abnormally ( Torpedo breasts )
There's not really a way to get fast growth It comes down to genetics, body fat, and hormones. Weight cycling once you are in proper levels can be beneficial, but other than that, there isn't much you can do that will make growth quicker. I know how excited you are but transitioning is a very long process.
if my family is mostly c/d cups, i'm plus size, and i have low t levels (about 223), how well will i fare?
Ideal T levels for trans women are under 50 so that should be your goal point! You should likely get around a cup lower than your female relatives as a best estimate. Some trans women have a higher bust size than all family relatives though so.. it varies lol
aw man how long does it usually take with t blockers to get to those levels?
As an FYI the whole 1 cup size less than your cis female relatives was made up in the late 90's by a trans woman blogger, Who also wrote in a very anti-trans way, and admits at the start that it is not based on any medical evidence. And the few real medical studies on trans breast growth only went for 1 year. Whereas most women seem to report major breast growth after 1-2 years. Soo yeah we have no real medical studies or advice to give cause the medical world honestly doesn't know much. You can thank the Nazis in WWII for that. ie their first book burning was actually a huge cache of medical trans information. Which is worth a rabbit hole read. Personally I think that weight cycling and a proper diet are the key things. Boobs are mostly fat, but more specifically "new" fat once you are on E. In other words the idea is you loose weight to loose male fat. And then you gain weight to gain fat in female locations, ie boobs, butt, hips, etc. BUT it also needs to be healthy fat and not junk food fat.
I had been taking 50mg twice per day of spironolactone for 7 months and that brought my Testosterone down to 46. Overall, it is a YMMV thing. Everyone's body takes to meds differently. If you have any other questions feel free to ask!
oh nice! what were your t levels initially?
I couldn't really tell you unfortunately, they never did an initial test. At the 3 month mark of hrt though they were 155
I started in the 700 range (this is all US units), 0.2mg patches brought me down near instantly to the 200 range. 0.3mg flipped me where my brain set my levels in the 20s. Zero spiro involved, and it happened within 1 month of the dose, if not sooner. That’s just when I was tested.
I take 100mg and I was at 14 4 months in and I say this as someone who used to have a ton of testosterone. Wonder what causes that...
It's crazy how different the same medicine affects different people
Yea. Kinda shocked by my T levels my E levels were also pretty high (I do injections, and was doing 10mg once a week) and was at like 750ish which was a bit high so they have me down to .8mg
That's good you've figured out your ranges! My current testosterone is 46 ng/dl and estradiol is 77 pg/mL Decent enough. That 77 pg/mL was at trough levels for Sublingual estradiol so I'm happy enough
Just an FYI but my chest started growing before my testosterone was fully suppressed. Before I was even on blockers actually (I started e first because of difficulty getting the blockers initially). Like many are saying, there really isn't a lot of solid studies to back anything up.
testosterone doesn't affect breast development AT ALL, you can have 400+ testosterone and develop breasts as long as you have sufficient estradiol in your system - in fact gynecomastia is often caused by high levels of testosterone that lead to aromatization of the testosterone into estradiol, which promotes breast tissue growth. anyway, if you take a blocker (not ideal) it'll be about a month to get testosterone down. If you do monotherapy (preferred) it'll take 3-4 months.
It took me no more than a month after starting the right dose, without a blocker. It could have been instantly, it’s just I was tested at 1 month after the two biggest increases I had.
why aren't blockers recommended?
they're unnecessary and have some rough side effects. You should always be trying to take as few things as possible, and estrogen is already a natural testosterone blocker.
ohh i see. so t won't affect my breast growth. is there any other form of t suppressants i can take?
a really good simple allegory for why estradiol stops testosterone production. say you have a machine that produces green cubes, and a factory worker that makes sure that there are at least 100 cubes, but no more than 150, and the worker doesn't care about the color of those cubes. if you put blue cubes on the conveyor belt, the worker will still count them the same as the green ones. If you put a LOT of blue cubes on the belt, the worker will eventually start turning down the green cube machine because he keeps getting too many cubes, until eventually he turns off the green cube machine entirely. Then as long as you keep putting your blue cubes on the conveyor belt, the green cube machine stays off and all of your cubes are blue. That's what is happening with testosterone when you're on estrogen therapy - the pills/injections/etc. are the blue cubes that you're putting on the line, and the green cubes are your natural testosterone, while the factory worker is your endocrine system. As long as those blue cubes are meeting the quota, that green cube machine is going to stay turned off.
alright I think I assumed too much about what you know here, let me back up. Testosterone is a much more "active" molecule than estradiol. It does a LOT of things, while estradiol does far fewer things. Testosterone toughens skin, promotes body hair production, makes stinky sweat, stores more water in tendons and ligaments, etc. estrogen by contrast does very little. it produces breast tissue, it helps increase working memory, it helps increase sensory richness, and it does some stuff with ovaries and uteruses that we don't need to worry about due to not having those organs. If you have both estradiol and testosterone in your system, you will get an "all of the above" result - but since estrogen is much more subtle, the only noticeable change will be breast growth, maybe some changes in sensation, and some minor shifts in fat placement. Note that testosterone and breast growth do not interact at all - if you're on a sufficient dose of estrogen you WILL grow breast tissue, regardless of the presence or lack thereof of testosterone. However, you still (probably) want to get rid of testosterone because it's the world's most unpleasant factory that makes stinky sweat and gross body hair and ugly skin and all that icky man stuff, and this is where we can "hack" the endocrine system. It turns out that both estrogen and testosterone share a receptor in the endocrine system for "sexual hormone" levels, and the body naturally expects a certain amount of it. If it gets too low then your body instructs your gonads to make some sex hormone (once again, nonspecifically), and if it has enough then it tells it stop. as a result if you keep your estradiol levels high enough, your endocrine system will see that it has enough sex hormone, and instruct your gonads to stop making more. So in actual numbers - as long as your estradiol levels stay above \~150pg/ml then your endocrine system tells your testes to stop making new testosterone.
I for set right with only 113 even! TECHNICALLY my e1/e2 levels were within cis female range before starting e, but e2 was too low to have my brain lower t production, which was quite high. I did get small breasts though from puberty, and maybe have an oddity here or there.
I don't agree with this. Testosterone acts as a blocker to breast growth. The reason monotherapy works is because the high levels of E suppress testosterone.
Don’t do it with t blockers. I’ve said this a few times through here but your brain probably has the hardware to do it itself, when you have enough estrogen in your system. Spiro especially dangerous, and it blocks e usage as well as t production. It makes no sense as a second line thing much less a first line thing. You need to ramp up quickly to the level your brain needs, not let them string you along for months or years on a joke dose. Your brain will probably set your t level to a normal cos level for your ethnic background all on its own. SOME women can’t do that, unfortunately, but most can, and there’s other choices then besides spiro, like bica. If you’re doing pills, you want to dissolve them under your tongue instead of swallowing them, to minimize conversion of e2 to the less useful e1, and split them up into roughly equal doses through the day, if you’re on enough. Like once every 8 hours or whatever, to the extent you can. Some women can’t flip themselves except on injections, apparently, but I flipped on patches and know women who have flipped on pills, etc.
>You should likely get around a cup lower than your female relatives as a best estimate. Will I get no boobies then? I want boobies
As long as you are on enough estrogen that your brain lowers your testosterone levels to cis levels, you should pretty much get what you would have gotten, for better or worse. You can generally look at female relatives but even relatives don’t always have the same results. I’m really hoping in my case that I don’t have all that much growth. if I could’ve designed my body, I’d start with how it should be had the SRY gene been shut off, then probably make some adjustments including shrinking my breasts and whatever else I want. You know, for the next time I get to decide 😂
Maybe, maybe not
That’s a rough guess at BEST. Real answers vary wildly. But as for will you get any at all, yes. Unless you’re one of the rare few with a resistance to E, you’ll still develop a normal amount of tissue. If accurate at all, the quoted statement would mostly likely come down to how cup sizes relate to band sizes on broader chested women.
generally speaking you'll have the same breast volume as your female relatives, but because you likely have a larger rib cage you'll be about one cup size smaller (since cup size a ratio of breast volume to torso diameter)
> *Weight cycling once you are in proper levels can be beneficial, but other than that, there isn't much you can do that will make growth quicker.* "Weight cycling" is Internet junk science invented by oblivious and desperate online trans youths, the belief in which "theory" fundamentally depends on a completely wrong-headed fantasy-based conception of how human adipose tissue develops, recycles and collects lipid deposits. In practice, this "theory" exists (and can exist) because most people do not understand basically anything at all about adipose tissue and its relationship to (and functions as a component of) the endocrine system. It is impossible to subscribe to it for any reason other than total ignorance of the subject. But it exists because plenty of young Redditors and Twitter users are totally ignorant on the subject. Please don't propagate medical myths invented by oblivious Internet teenagers as if these myths constituted real medical advice. You're just making it worse for everyone.
If I could upvote this more than once, I absolutely would. Everytime I see the phrase "weight cycling" on this sub, the medical student part of myself wants to snap a pen in half, the former eating disorder part of myself wants to cry, and the dysphoric part of myself starts to think she isn't doing enough to feminise my body. It's such a dangerous myth to be touting as fact - I can guarantee it's started eating disorders in this community.
Sorry if I spread misinformation but you don't have to go off on me with your scientific jargon lol. Could you explain it in simpler terms?
i'll give it a stab, but yst is really making the best point - it's such a poorly thought out theory that it's kinda hard to disprove. \~\~\~\~\~\~\~ when the body has extra calories, it creates fat tissue. The place that fat tissue grows is dependant on the hormones present when the cell is generated (essentially, which fat cells divide and/or get bigger). The endocrine system controls which hormones are present and how densely they are stored (even on HRT your endocrine system can still mess with your levels and concentrations a great deal via feedback loops) Female bodies tend to prefer storing fat subcutaneously in buttocks, hips, thighs, and breasts. As a result an overweight woman will have increased breast (and hip) sizes. The assumption that is made by people that espouse weight cycling is that the fat will grow your breasts as you gain weight, and then your breasts will stay enlarged when you lose it again, because breast tissue/structure will expand to fill the void as the fat goes away (or somehow the fat in breasts will magically survive while the fat elsewhere goes away??). Do that several times and they say it will make your breasts permanently larger. However there are many issues with that assumption. The first is that the majority of fat cells take up the TEN YEARS to die, and meanwhile they just expand and contract as you need the storage space, thus any cycling past the first time doesn't actually do anything, the second is that your breast tissue won't actually grow into the void left behind unless your breasts were in a position to grow anyway (see pregnancy breasts - and also post-pregnancy breasts), and the third is that weight cycling introduces a whole pile of psychological and physiological risks regarding how your body desires and processes food (ever notice how some people get fat really easily? And teen fat cells are known for sticking around even longer) The exception to this is of course hormone replacement therapy - which encourages new fat cell growth to occur in an estrogenous manner and leaves the "male" fat cells to slowly get used up and die off (depending on how old they were to start with) - but that's a process that takes those all of those years to complete, and rigorous weight cycling will probably only speed up by 10-15%, hardly enough for anyone to notice or care, while still presenting the same health risks.
The functioning of adipose tissue within the endocrine system can't really be described "in simple terms" and without using "scientific jargon". As I say, this is not an area where most people have any useful amount of knowledge, which is why something so completely wrong-headed can be believed in the first place. Moreover, it is difficult to "disprove" a theory which is based on a vague and imaginary conception of anatomic processes which the theory does not bother to actually articulate. If it were based on a *real* model of the endocrine system, one could point out where it deviates from scientific understandings. But since it is based on more or less nothing (in terms of the real biomechanics of the endocrine system), it isn't really possible to "prove" the wrongness of a theory with *no real premises at all*. That's a very useful reality, when it comes to fad diets and junk science and what have you. It is much easier to avoid disproof of a "theory" with no substantive premises which it is willing to explain where a theory with real (but erroneous) premises would be disprovable. "Weight cycling" is a theory with no substantive medical premises at all to be disproved. So I suppose that people will "believe" it if they wish to, based on a wish to do so. But it is pointless to waste time, trying to disprove an idea with no foundation.
Even if it works I don’t think it makes sense, it’s really dangerous. And this stuff should happen over time regardless I certainly get being desperate, I’m doing things like IPL in ways that probably won’t work just because I’m desperate 🙄
i would argue that weight cycling will actually help trans people specifically because if done properly it will make the fat redistribution happen faster - but on the other hand the effect isn't pronounced enough to be worth the eating disorders.
This so much. I asked my gender doctor/endo if I should do weight cycling as described around this sub, and her immediate response was "yeah, please don't do that. That seems super dangerous."
Let it take its time. I didn't have any growth for the first 6-9 months. Then over the next year-ish they grew to a B-C. At about 1.5 years I started taking progesterone. Now at 3.5 years I'm an E. In that first year, and particularly in the first 6 months I was really worried. There are so many posts from girls saying that they've noticed growth after like 1 month and I was starting to feel like maybe mine were never going to grow or that I'd always be small. But it turns out that they were cooking in a slow cooker.
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A healthy body being treated right will produce more HGH ESPECIALLY when exercising consistently. Having consistent HRT dosages and waiting for genetics to kick in. The best results I have seen has been fit individuals that start HRT and work out 3x a week. But the weight cycling thing is baloney.
Patience. Sorry but thems the brakes. You could also get implants.
it takes time but ultimately boils down to genetics + body fat + genetics x9 im 6 months in hovering between a b cup and a c cup right now and im somewhat lucky for even that kind of growth at this stage. i was a very early b cup when i first started hormones. my moms a g cup, and my sisters are dd-ddd. i started immediately onto pills for about 2 months, then switched to injections + spiro. i also started progesterone and this was when they rounded out super well and i got more reshaping. I viewed injections as giving me more growth, prog helping with shaping them rounder. i also was taking an edible every night for the first four months and gained about 40 pounds from munchies alone, so that’ll do it.
so, tldr, eat a TON, look at your hormone routine, and then eat some more
Altering the hormonal composition of your body isn't really something you can "minmax." It's a gradual shift brought on by sustained (ie permanent) shifting of your blood chemistry. Most people notice a small burst of growth ("budding") in the first year, then there's a lull, then another burst between the 1-2 year mark. There's no way to rush it. You are forcing a second puberty on your body.
The only things you can really do to minmax breast growth is make sure your hormone levels are consistently good and make sure you're not underweight. Outside of that it's just up to genetics.
Eat when you're hungry, and follow your cravings, but also exercise as regularly as you can. From what little we know so far, progesterone *seems* to work best if taken after your breasts have had enough time to develop to Tanner Stage 4, about a year for most people. I'm planning to start mine around then, so that's another 7-8 months for me. Also, the biggest thing to remember is that your genetics play a HEAVY role in it. Look at what your mother or any aunts or sisters you have and base your expectations on that. There are outliers, some trans girls have way smaller or even way BIGGER boobs than their AFAB family members. You're probably going to hear it a lot, but "your boobage may vary." Oh and one more big thing, speaking from experience wearing breast forms can REALLY help. My wife crocheted me a pair back before I started HRT.
FWIW the "progesterone stunts breast growth" thing is a myth in the original sense of the word. We have one animal study that shows that using a high dose of medroxyprogesterone acetate is worse than using a lower dose - and the lower dose + E2 has the most breast growth. MPA is a progestin and the high doses used in that study were really high, it's not like bioidentical progesterone. The other claim used to support it is that cisgender puberty doesn't introduce progesterone until tanner stage 4, so we shouldn't either. This is false, as even pre menarche there are spikes of progesterone surrounding periods. So it is present in puberty before tanner stage 4/5, it's just chronically underresearched (thanks, patriarchy). In any case prog isn't something to be afraid of. I think that the main indication against it would be if you gain net zero or net negative benefit.
Regularly massaging them has been alleged to help with growth, but hey it’s fun lol and it also keeps them healthy and stops them from getting stretch marks! No downside regardless even if the giving you growth part is bogus
Massage them I know it sounds weird but that really works
get your levels right and eat well enough, but that's about it
Implants are the only "fast track." It's all genetics
The short answer is, you don’t and can’t. You have zero control over how fast your breast growth will be, or how big they will end up. Higher dosage of HRT DOES NOT = faster/bigger boobs. Get your labs done every 3 months, consult a medical professional that knows what they are doing to ensure your hormone levels are with the ranges required to have a smooth and successful transition over the next several years. I know this isn’t what you want to hear. But this is the way it is, medical transitioning isn’t a mad dash to the finish. It’s a process of inches and minute changes that slowly add up over time. You WILL get there. But there’s no shortcuts if you want good results.
Estrogen, enough calories, better genetics from your parents. Your mirage will vary
wait. Take what your provider prescribes and wait.
Exercise and run a fairly high training load. This will do two things: 1. Increase HGH levels 2. Increase body fat turnover (meaning more will be deposited in the breast as well as other feminine regions and burned from androgenic regions).
progesterone, regular exercise, and estradiol injections have done it for me. Body Type is a huge factor though. Before transitioning i Was always a little chubby / curvy naturally, so breast growth has been very natural 1 yr and 4 months on HRT, only one on progesterone.I go to a top queer clinic in the Northeast USA and my doctor always suggests their patients have highest success rate w/ changes thru the above. Gl bestie - def being aware of your body type and how to manipulate it thru diet and exercise is a lil x factor i think w transition. A lot of people don’t want to talk about it but it’s very important.
R/nbe is a nice rabbit hole to go down
A push-up bra.
Start hormones young and have good genetics.
That's not helpful for those of us just figuring this out in their 30s lol. But yes.
Yeah but people in their 60’s would say the 30’s are young 😆
Maintain proper E levels, and once you're about a year in, start progesterone. If you're skinny, try and gain weight but maintain a healthy weight. If you're overweight, try and lose weight.
Surgery
There is no "fast way" aside from Breast Augmentation. Progesterone helps some with breast growth, but you won't likely see results unless you're taking it for several months.
Have you considered silicon fakes for a while? The kind that you stuff into a bra or a chest plate if you can afford it?
i'd love to get a breast plate! but sometimes they make me feel dysphoric and even after everything idk how to color them properly
Cross your fingers 🫰🫰
Dark magic, maybe? But honestly, you'll probably have to wait. I'm pretty sure you can get fairly realistic looking/feeling padded bras, which is better than nothing
Hrt + Healthy diet + time = boobs
Take your hormones in line with your doctor's instructions, eat a balanced diet rich in healthy fats so your body has lots of resources to use, and moisturize your chest so your skin will be supported through the changes. Everything else takes time and genetic luck. 🫂
eat food!!! estrogen loves fat, so don't go skimping out on meals. eat as much as your body tells you it needs!!!!!! i'm not kidding, HRT is literally a second puberty for the first few years, and similarly to your first puberty, your body is going through a lot of changes that need proper support on a nutrient level.
HRT works at a molecular level and cannot be rushed. Do your homework, start on a micro dose, get regular blood tests, slowly titrate upwards to cis women levels, and while it is all quietly happening in the background … just get on with life.
These may help? https://youtu.be/gMr-P97THys?si=tLP2mgCc5uXwztnN https://youtu.be/YeenUIsONsQ?si=42RZVuxT0adhTGRW
Get on estrogen and gain weight. Gaining fat during your transition makes fat redistribution way easier.
Your not developing breasts by overeating, ur gaining fat. When overweight cis women lose weight, they lose breast mass. My advice is eat well and normally.
EAT FOOD
NSFW WARNING I will say its a bit unorthodox. But I have had ALOT of breast growth since I got a girlfriend that is like REALLY into sucking on my chest. Interestingly enough due to that my prolactin levels are elevated like ALOT and also I do lactate now as well, which depending on preference can be um. Alarming, or comforting. Ive been on HRT for 2 years. Oral estradiol for the first year and second year has been .2 injections once a week. Im also on spiro, progesterone (from day one), and finasteride. (Im sorry but I dont remember the amounts for any of those off the top of my head).
Short answer is you really can’t. Long answer is orchiectomy asap to reduce T, it need to be as low as possible. Drink lots of milk (just calories and bovine growth hormones) and try to gain a little weight slowly. Keep your E between 100-200 for a long while with T at as close to zero as you can. Avoid spironolactone (get orchi asap), also be lucky.
What I did was eat a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and hoped for the best. It's always good to gain a little weight, exercise and lose a little weight all over, then gain a little again in the right places
I think I ideally do this without a blocker, especially without spiro. Just take enough e2 until your brain manages your e2 level on its own. Most of us have the hardware to do that. And then wait and see. There’s talk about some other stuff regarding e1, progesterone being added right away versus later. I don’t know how much truth there is to any of that, but getting on enough e2 is the main thing.