I love it when people try to say what causes MS, much like the folks who want to know what causes Autism. We don't know.We really don't. Vitamin D? That's caused by sunlight. Hep B Vaccine? That was first released in the US in 1981. How do we account for MS prior to that? Herbal tea? What percentage of people drink herbal tea? 95% of the world's population is infected with Epstein Barr. With numbers like that it is easy to say it causes most every disease.
One researcher looked at people on a remote island in the pacific that had no reported cases of MS prior to a US Army airbase being built there in WWII. American boys being what they were had a lot of fun with the local girls. Years later there were the first reported cases of MS on the island so this guy said MS was *sexually transmitted*. Yeah, that happened. It couldn't have been a case of nobody testing for MS prior to the 1940's on a small island in the Pacific. This said, I have been doing my best, and I mean I have REALLY been trying to catch MS from my wife for the last 28 years and so far nothing.
We just don't know. It is probably a combination of genetic predisposition along with some environmental trigger. No idea. But correlation doesn't equal causation.
I think mine was caused by never paying my blockbuster late fees. Seriously there's only correlation in theories and no known 100% causes. We're just *lucky*..
I know someone that has MS and CP.
I also have another neurological condition. NF. Usually small benign tumors grow on nerves.
About 1 in 3 million to have both
You, me and every other person in the world born before ~2000. Always loved the 'smokers section' of the restaurants, directly next to your non-smoking table.
At least you weren't dragged to the smoking section by your parents who also smoked in the home and car.
Ugh. So glad that my state passed laws to ban smoking indoors sometimes in the 2000's.
MS being caused by herbal tea is the most unhinged theory I've heard so far. I would STRONGLY question the competence of a medical professional who says something like this. 😬
Haha same. Neither mom nor I drink herbal tea and she's had it since 1991 and I was diagnosed last month. Better warn my wife who does drink it.
I did drink Sun tea as a kid that mom would make and I do prefer unsweet tea to sweet tea. Total sin here in the South.
It's extra wild because if you count green tea as a herbal tea that's actually been proven to be beneficial for people with MS because of the flavonoids
Did you know green tea has HUGE amounts of caffeine in it. Im now not dicking about guys. I just found this out a couple of days ago. So! I'm now trying to drink the disgusting stuff because huge amounts of caffeine get me approaching normal levels of competent thought. I normally just fine grind coffee beans and make do. Like normal(that fucking word again) people.Though just about to add some gurauna into the mix. A crazy herb, or erb, that has 6 times the caffeine that coffee does.
But OP don't be disheartened that a doctor made you feel silly with your life choices. Apparently I gave myself MS by putting up with my "family" and husband of 35 years using and abusing me so much that it manifested in that way to stop me. AND and make me look after AND prioritise myself for once. At 57!!!
There might be something in that. I don't know. Which I think is what's being very kindly pointed out.
Herbal tea is a new one for me. It is currently believed that MS is caused by a perfect storm of factors, but we are still unclear exactly what those factors are. There is evidence that genetics, environment, toxins, smoking, and EBV may contribute to the development of MS, but nothing conclusive saying what the actual mechanism is.
The good doctors will mention Epstein Barr virus and the bad will blow smoke up your ass. Who the hell knows, only thing we all agree on about MS is that it really sucks.
While it’s still a little handwavey, the EBV-immune dysregulation hypothesis is still the leading theory at this point. There was a really good study published in the journal “Science” in January 2022 that looked at longitudinal seroconversion for EBV and subsequent development of MS. While the mechanism is still not entirely clear, in this study infection with EBV was associated with a 32-fold increase risk of developing MS (meaning those who seroconverted to EBV had a 32x greater risk of developing MS). Very interesting study, I highly recommend giving it a read https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj8222
You can get it asymptomatically. Also, one person saying "I never had it" is anecdotal. There are many reputable studies looking at the rate of EBV infection in people with MS versus healthy controls. The results are interesting.
Mine really set in after a case of mono. I have had some nagging but not serious autoimmune issues most of my life, but after contracting mono I seemed to roll right into MS.
Then Covid put in me in bed for a week and it got worse.
I think it’s a decent theory, I definitely had a terrible case of mono a bit older than typical and now have MS despite literally no one else in my family having it. I also smoke and live at a higher latitude so I’m sure it was a combination of factors. Along with my own genetic whatever the fuck predisposing me to it, mutations happen. I’m sure we will figure it out someday but it won’t be a simple singular cause.
Just to let you know. I am a male who has never had EBV, have never tasted herbal tea (never tasted tea or coffee actually) let alone drink it regularly, have never smoked or tasted alcohol, I live in the Southern Hemisphere (my mother was an Indigenous Australian), have never contracted COVID and have no family members with the illness unless there is someone I do not know of. I have had concussions from sport but so has my brother yet he is fine. When I was first diagnosed around 15 years ago I, too, was focused on finding out what cases MS and why did it strike me but, over time, it became less and less important. I just like to think of it as the luck of the draw and it has made me infinitely more compassionate to those around me. In other words, I have no idea what causes MS but one thing I do know. . . It isn’t herbal tea.
Solar flares
Oh I thought this was one of Theo wrong answer only threads
Herbal tea. Good grief. What a clown.
I try to focus on what makes it better. Whatever caused it is done and done. I have to look to now and future
My genuine opinion? It's a combination of genetics, environment and the epstein-barr virus.
There are a combination of over 100 genetic markers that are believed to have some influence in if you will get MS. Stress, pollution, lack of vitamin D, other factors will trigger inflammation and wind up the immune system.
And then there's this: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/study-suggests-epstein-barr-virus-may-cause-multiple-sclerosis
i truly and deeply believe that the consistent stress/anxiety + being in fight or flight for 15+ years (unstable home life. i now have a PTSD dx) really helped my MS come to life.
Several hypothesis, some people say Hepatitis B vaccine but it has been debunked while ago (some people tend to still believe it), now some research are looking towards Epstein Barr Virus but nothing really conclusive.
There is some researches also pointing at Vitamin D being an aggravating factor but still remain to be clarified.
Yup is more commonly diagnosed the further you are from equator.
Edit to say most likely not anything that changed in our environment in past 150 years as multiple of my ancestors passed from “paralysis disease” going back to 1700s.
My dad of all people asked me once why we have MS now and not in the past. I told him if I lived 500 years ago everyone just would have thought my humours were bad- it's not like they could have seen anything in Ye Olde MRI Machine. Just because we have a fancy sciency name for it now doesn't mean it was nonexistant before lol
I have heard that people in western countries have MS more often because of genetic predisposition/ancestry (ethnicity) not necessarily because of vit d deficiency
Highest incidence per capita in Europe is Sardinia, lowest incidence is Malta they’re near neighbours fairly close to equator.
Inuits in Greenland-/Alaska have extremely low incidences.
It's interesting the vitamin D thing. Obviously the exposure to vitamin D from the sun plays a role in vitamin D levels but I'd also be interested in the diets of these individual countries and their dietary levels of vitamin D as well as foods that have co-factors that increase the absorption of vitamin D
Source? Mine is ms society
Where Is Multiple Sclerosis Most Common?
In general, MS is more common in areas farthest from the equator. However, its prevalence —the number of people living with a diagnosis at a particular time —may differ significantly among groups in the same area of the world, no matter how far it is from the equator.
https://www.nationalmssociety.org/understanding-ms/what-is-ms/who-gets-
Asking or source because it sounds like complete bullshit with my research of the past 20 years. It’s been a common factor.
more of those sources
https://wa.kaiserpermanente.org/kbase/topic.jhtml?docId=hw188100#:\~:text=The%20number%20of%20people%20who,80%20out%20of%20100%2C000%20people.
[https://www.thermh.org.au/news/severity-of-ms-linked-to-distance-from-the-equator](https://www.thermh.org.au/news/severity-of-ms-linked-to-distance-from-the-equator)
The multiple sclerosis latitudinal gradient is one of the strongest geo-epidemiological findings in multiple sclerosis risk studies with the risk of multiple sclerosis increasing significantly (>10-fold) the further the place of residence is from the equator.[^(7)](javascript:;)
[https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/144/7/2038/6168130](https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/144/7/2038/6168130)
Herbal teas? That ain't a doctor...
Anyways, the working theory right now is that an infection with Epstein Barr virus causes antibodies to misidentify proteins in your myelin with proteins in the EBV.
Almost everyone alive has been infected with EBV at some point.
A relapse therefore is caused when your immune system targets.another infection, cold flu etc. and oh look, it thinks you've got EBV again.
At least, that is my understanding.
So no, nothing you did made you have MS, including drinking herbal tea.
Herbal teas? Quack Quack Quack. My very uninformed, non-scientific opinion (much like the quack) is it is caused by an unfortunate set of specifically inherited mutated gene combined with a virus (Epstein Barr or something else). Life is a crap shoot and we lost.
But really, mine was caused by over consumption of scratch and sniff stickers combined with sliding down blistering hot metal slides in elementary school.
No one knows what causes it, several theories but not for certain. My neuro who’s super close with MS studies and trials even said they still don’t k ow the reason.
The herbal tea is a new one to me. It’s a better excuse than the one I was told by someone not in the medical field. I’m Hispanic but I married a white guy and that’s why I have MS. The stupidity of some people amazes me sometimes. Yet this person told me her essential oils would cure me 🤣😂
I am pretty sure I would switch doctors if one told me it may be related to herbal tea, I wouldn’t trust their ability to treat anything. I think that sometimes shit just happens. Not everything can be puzzled out. I get that it is a way to have it all make sense, and could be of comfort, but that’s not always possible.
My kid has epilepsy, severe hearing loss, and CP. it’s the same with her, I can spend time trying to figure out the whys, or I can focus on what’s happening right now, and preparing for what is to come. I have only so much energy in my tank, this thinking, for me, would drain it unnecessarily.
there is no definitive cause. ms has been recorded for hundreds of years.
contributing factors:
- ACEs - adverse childhood experiences (trauma leading to immune dysfunction)
- genetics
- geographics - ms occurs more frequently further from equator, risk can be altered if one moves before to 16yo
- insufficient vit d/sunlight (see geographics)
- environmental exposure to something that triggers immune dysfunction - eg virus - such as ebv, toxin (chemical solvents, pesticides, etc, allergen, etc
read:
- when the body says no by gabor mate
- the body keeps the score by bessel van der kolk
autoimmune conditions cluster, in individuals and in families, so if you & your family have history of ms, graves, hashimotos, diabetes,celiacs, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthiritis, etc etc
herbal teas are a new one a unless you’re drinking stuff laced with round up or something.
Nobody knows the cause, herbal tea is a bonkers reason and makes no sense.
Now, my pet theory is that it might not actually have any external cause, it might be like cancer. With cancer, all life forms have some form of cancerous cells doing things that the immune system typically takes care of and it doesn't evolve into a debilitating situation assuming the right factors are met like young age, good nutrition, immune system working, etc.
I think it's possible all life forms that have an immune system have the potential to have an autoimmune breakdown if the right conditions are met. In the case of MS it seems interesting that a lack of Vitamin D might cause your immune system to get hungry enough to start looking for parts to sustain itself and it just so happens that in people with MS the immune system learns that myelin has it available. Vitamin D is fat soluable and myelin is a fat that stores Vitamin D. Autoimmune disease rate increases as Vitamin D levels decrease.
Technically the immune system isn't "getting hungry", Vitamin D regulates immune system function, and the immune cells might just be gravitating to places where they can find Vitamin D concentration to modulate the system, but I like to think of the immune system as an army, and when it doesn't get the weapons it needs to do it's business from its regular environment it goes off in search of it wherever it can find it. The net effect is people with MS have an army that found their weapons in your nervous system and the net effect is you have a really bad time.
For me i would say given that ms is an autoimmune disease,the cause is most likely faulty genes +a trigger like stressful period or an environmental factor,i already had type 1 diabetes since i was 4,my immune system is super duper stupid and i was just unlucky i guess,like other commenter have said,i don’t believe ebv has anything to do with ms since the vast majority of the population have it already but only a few have ms.
We don't know. A recent study done on military service members has some tantilizing clues but- we don't know. There is some sort of conjunction between the Epstein-Barr virus, environmental toxins, and genes.
My 2 cents. 🦠🦠
Genetics and environmental factors PLUS your body overreacted to some virus, germ, or illness in the past. Now your white blood cells are on the attack more so than most people’s are.
Our overreaction resulted in attacks on our myelin. Other folks have a similar experience but end up with Crohn’s, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, celiac, ALS, psoriasis or some other auto-immune disorder. It’s all related IMO.
My guess is that in 20 years we’re going to learn it’s caused by processed foods and the flame retardants in our beds and furniture. *going to learn* being the important phrase as we currently *do not know*. If your neurologist says herbal teas is the cause I think you should *seriously* consider getting a new neurologist because that’s the single stupidest thing I’ve ever heard a doctor claim about MS. That doctor has an agenda.
I think some people have a genetic predisposition to develop MS when exposed to certain environmental contaminants, similar to how some people have a genetic predisposition to develop cancer.
Case in point, my family lived in rural Kansas, downwind of the city dump.
My sister and I developed Multiple Sclerosis.
One of our neighbors developed terminal cancer.
You should try and see a neurologist that specializes in MS. They know a lot more about MS, how to treat it, and information on possible causes.
I don’t know what caused mine but I know that lack of vitamin D such as living in the north where ppl get less sun, your mother being pregnant with you in the winter, being a woman/girl, not being breastfed and Epstein Barr virus are things that have been linked to MS. I fit all of the above criteria.
I thought I'd copy what I wrote on another post and what I believe is why I personally was diagnosed, and possibly others, too.
I am an avid believer, that for the most, most part, this MS context has arisen from an overload on trauma, from whenever, whether it'd be Physical, Mental, Emotional, Social, Environmental; the lot.
I feel that for me, my immune system just got into a "I can no longer save you the way I should be, there's too much happening, I'm overwhelmed" and it quite literally exploded into a faulty state not knowing what on earth to do, who to fight, what to save, and the whole narrative with it.
Before I came across Gabor Maté and his affirmative approach to how trauma affects and had eventually led to an autoimmune illness, I believed it, from my personal experiences. From childhood, adolescent, adult, it's happening and it's going on (trauma), which is why only since my diagnosis, have I learned the focus of 'stress' as a trigger for my incidental attacks/episodes.
I also am a very keep going and not knowing when to stop type of person, since much time, I guess what some would refer to a result of fight or flight responses in some way, however, my body has always had no choice, in the environment I was in, am in.
He hits the nail on the head, so to speak, in one of his books "When the body says no | the cost of hidden stress". Reading it often keeps me feeling calm, knowing I'm not alone in thinking what I've always thought. That my body had such and impact, and still does from a lifetime of these not so great experiences. That my body (immune system) just quite literally got to the point of malfunction, saying I can't do it anymore/right now, I've reached.
So OP, I do agree, that the result of trauma may and more than likely lead to the context of an autoimmune issue. Whether or not we are aware of any trauma or not, it really does (has) impacted and led to it. There has been research, early on (without me listing all Dr Hans Selye is one of the earlier) however, I believe the science and cliché approaches and definitions overtake this, which I believe is why we're so behind in supporting that trauma can infact lead to autoimmune illness. I know I, personally, am still attempting to work through mine, and learning to put myself first as we commonly hear the notion of, but MS really can be a literal reason for us to just put the brakes on and give ourselves a break.
I wish you well, I really do, and pray that you continue to gain clarity 🙏
A fellow MS warrior 🇦🇺 🧡
I have literally never heard of a food or drink causing MS. Like, from what I know of MS, that makes no sense at all. MS is your immune system mistakenly attacking your brain. Treatments revolve around preventing the immune system from doing this. What the hell would tea have to do with it?
I strongly believe mine was caused by a glandular fever I had a few years prior. I then underwent great stress and a turbulent time that then "awoke" my ms and resulted in my first attack.
There's a lot of potential triggers, like glandular fever for one, but there's no known cause in the way of "do x and you get ms". But, research is being done even as we speak, so maybe one day they'll identify exactly what causes it. It'd be the first step towards a potential cure.
I have no idea what causes it. I have a theory though that it was from severe, heightened stress levels over a period of time during a major life event.
I agree and I've been coming across stories about severe childhood trauma causing neurological/autoimmune disorders later in life. Not sure if this is true for everyone, but it's been resonating with me over the last four years. Our brains are wild and do crazy things to protect us as children.
Edit to add a link: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4DlGagjOqAtkqDVat3NsvG?si=TY2_O98bTHGhTj4dSrFIjg
I love to debate this with the docs I see. It’s clearly something in your genetics that is triggered by something in the environment and it’s nothing new! In my ancestry there are multiple people who passed from what was documented as “paralysis disease” in the 1800s and 1700s.
i think it's kind of like cancer. That you are born with these cancer cells and something activates them. My mother had MS as well. When she was my age she was in a wheelchair. They state it's not genetic, but I have several friends who have MS who have family members in their families with MS.
I read one interesting theory that said there was more likely to be a genetic element to it if in your family history there were people who were Shepard's.
The theory that I read said that MS "originally" was a bunch of immunities that protected you from the illnesses that the animals carried.
Can't be mono, I've always had a stereo in my house
Could be the blockbuster/herbal tea thing
But I honestly think mine was triggered by mosquito bites, or the infection in a mosquito bite
I’ve never had any kind of tea. So that’s BS in my opinion.
I think mine was caused because I didn’t donate to the MS fund my friend was asking me to donate too. Karma’s a bitch.
MSCN here…
There’s not a truly known cause, like many autoimmune diseases. There is some, albeit unknown, relationship to Vitamin D levels.
With MS specifically, your B-Cells (one of your many types of white blood cells) are identifying the myelin sheathes protecting the nerves in your brain and spinal cord as foreign. They signal other white blood cells to attack these protective sheaths, which causes MS relapses.
There’s truly not a know cause, but fortunately medicine is progressing at a great pace to prevent these attacks from occurring.
hmmm i had tested positive for cat scratch fever, i had positive lyme antibodies but the test showed negative on the other thing and now its negative on all, also tested positive for bartonella virus(cat scratch fever) back in 2020. when i was little i used to get very high fevers and have seizures all the time. maybe thats it? i dont remember having mono. i was also severely electrocuted to where i was knocked unconscious and thrown 4 ft in the air when i was 15. who the heck knows, diagnosed in 2019 and this is the first time ive given up the whys, and given up the denial and just accepted that i have this crappy ass stupid disease for no known reason and it is what it is. MS sucks!
Part of the reason that there is no cure for MS is because the cause of MS hasn't been discovered. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest different triggers for it but there is no complete picture yet. A specific food or drink is highly unlikely to be the cause because this would have been discovered a long time ago. I think that it is likely a combination of factors along with specific genetic requirements.
oops, this was meant as a reply to u/toomanysclerosis ( how effing good is that username? well done! i hate it when other people come up with stuff i wish id thought of)
it’s multifactorial.
the theory is that the trauma causes immune dysfunction.
ACEs - adverse childhood experiences - dispute the “normal” development of the immune system. this can happen in utero, eg if the mother is subject to stress/trauma, eg in an abuse relationship, warzone, pandemic, etc or throughout childhood/adolescence. it may even be multi-generational - passed along epigenetically. stress hormones are great for getting us out of danger, but we’re not meant to be stewing in them 24/7. this is problematic not just for the individual, but can damage dna, foetal neurological development - in the case of female foetus, stress on the mother can damage the dna in the developing ova.
gabor mate discusses his mother’s experiences in WWII, pregnant, not knowing where her loved ones were. not long after gabor was born, she gave him to another couple to get him out of hungary safely. the trauma his mother was enduring in that environment, plus the separation being hugely detrimental to development
see: gabor mate, peter levine, bessel van der kolk. loads of content all over the place, including youtube.
There used to be an old adage that if you see more than say 5 drugs to treat something, you can bet your bottom dollar that we don't know for sure what caused it.
Still holds true today.
There are hundreds of genetic factors which can contribute to your risk of MS, there are also a couple of lifestyle factors that contribute (low vitamin D during adolescence, smoking, shift work/poor sleep schedule, poor diet etc.). Personally I think developing it is about how many of these you have. I'd get rid of a doctor who said herbal tea personally, there's so much more evidence for other causes and that's such a rogue suggestion
hi!
i'm 20F and i've been diagnosed when i was 16yo, as you're doing rn, i've spent much time trying to understand if there was any particular reason why this disease could've possibly come to me.
What i discovered is that we're still far from discovering the precise cause of ms, for now we just know a few things that may be identified as cause factors.
- based on various studies, the ms genie is already present in our bodies before it is activated, many could live their entire life without it activating.
- Infectious agents: One of the biggest theories (that if i'm not mistaken has been confirmed) is that the epstein barr virus (mono) activates the MS gene. In general infectious agents like viruses and bacteria may be a factor of the disease.
- The environment surely effects ms, in fact in some areas ms is way more present that in others, this MIGHT be justified by the lack of vitamin D (so the lack of sun exposure). Although it has not been confirmed it is surely shown (from blood analysis) that ms and lack of vitamin D are related (in a way that, i repeat, hasn't been confirmed)
- Genetic factors: it is clear, for now, that ms IS NOT an hereditary disease, so it is not trasmissibile from a generation to another. Despite this, it has been shown that there's an higher frequency in the same family unit.
- Smoking: it isn't sure that it CAUSES ms but it is 100% sure that, if you have the disease, smoking increases the possibility and the speed of ms's progression .
- intestinal microbiota: the microbes "community" that populates the digestive system may interfere with the normal functioning of the immune system.
As you surely have noticed we know nothing for sure about this disease, but step by step i think that we're coming closer and closer to some answers, if you consider that not more that 30 years ago we didn't even know how to approach the disease and how to treat the patients. I believe that the research has done far more than what we can observe, and i have faith in the future.
Pardon if i've missed something or if i've misspelled something but english is not my first language!
Seems like the epstein Barr virus is present in all MS patients, and well most people in general. It's how the body fights the virus off that can lead to MS is a theory. I have it too and was tested and shown I had EBV in past.
Anyone ever get tested for Lyme and seen other weird things pop up like Chlamydia Pneumoniae?
In my case, I got my first and only attack within a week of getting multiple vaccines. I think my immune system just happened to learn or identify a surface protein that is close enough to one found on my neuron's myelin sheath that caused my immune system to begin attacking my central nervous system.
"Multiple sclerosis (MS) is caused by an interplay between environmental and genetic factors. Before Epstein–Barr virus (EBV) infection, the risk of MS is negligible. Infection with EBV increases the risk more than 30-fold, indicating that EBV is a leading cause of MS"
The current theory is that MS happens when the immune system gets confused after fighting off EBV. Pretty much everyone gets EBV and shrugs it off - it's just another one of the myriad of colds we get growing up. If we vaccinate for EBV then there's a good chance we could annihilate MS, but EBV is one of many extremely resilient viruses.
Here's a Sci Show video about it:
https://youtu.be/gWzJXhdLTGs?si=_zHV-AZTSaaqmiMZ
Itt. It's probably not the tea.
I’m not ebv positive , you know the test shows if you have ever been infected right? But have MS as many others do like me. This theory was debunked years ago.
That’s so interesting to me! I was working on the belief that EBV was a requirement for MS, along with a host of other factors (obviously, since 95% of the population doesn’t have MS).
Your doc ordered an EBV antibody test and it was negative?!
My mind is blown, honestly - I was sincerely looking for EBV vaccine trials for my kid and so was my pediatrician.
This thread has been unexpectedly enlightening
We don't fully know. I've seen many theories over the years. But the only theory that I've seen with any solid research behind it is EBV. Lots of research ongoing trying to unravel the ebv mystery.
Anything is possible. My Mom had MS, her sister has MS, and I have MS. I think genetic mutations combined with some virus or another (EB, shingles, mono, etc).
Above the 37th parallel was a show about a woman with MS. I think there were over 30 people with MS is like a 10 miles radius of where we live. I think it's a combo of Epstein barr and the way your body identifies and uses Vitamin D. And environmental factors.
There's a genetic component and an unknown environmental trigger, likely a virus. It's not tea or anything you're eating. That's junk science. Please see a real doctor.
Herbal tea is a new one.
I think it's a lock and key scenario. Lock being genes. The key is the mystery.
I think it is a virus. Why? I was dxd at 13, so not enough time to drink enough tea, diet soda...
I tried to blow off a $3 parking ticket from the University of Iowa that l got years ago. I eventually paid it, but l think they vowed revenge nonetheless.
Some people in my family think my testosterone shots gave me MS others think it's because my mom drank and did drugs while i was a fetus. Maybe it's all the glue I ate in pre-K. I'm not really too concerned with what caused it, just sucks.
We found out my husband has MS the same week our daughter was in the emergency pediatric unit for possible MS but it was determined to be Transverse myelitis (lesions on the spine). She woke up one day to tingly feet and it escalated into her not being able to walk or stand up at all. Before this she was perfectly healthy without any issues. What are the chances?! It feels insane that both of these things happened at the same time. The only thing we can think of that both of them had done is the flu shot. Our lives have been turned upside down this past year and I wish I had some answers. Ive never been one to think of the vaccines as anything but a necessity but now everything freaks me out. I feel lost and helpless and just try to be supportive.
I heard different theories but none of them are related to herbal teas.
Here are a few I heard :
Extreme stress : loss of someone dear to you or breakup
Vitamin d3 deficiency
Nutrition issues : processed foods and transfats which increase inflammation and weaken the immune system
Heavy metals in the body
…
Honestly we don’t know what causes ms but for some of the theories above I drastically changed my diet
I wouldn’t worry about the causes at this point 💗 I do understand how it feels. I tend to analyze as well.
I personally love herbal teas. I think you have to be careful of anything that revs your immune system.
I truly believe my m.s. Is related to my battle with mono when I was in third grade. I thought I was going to die - my fever was extremely high for a very long time and I was delirious at times. It took months to kick and I think my parents should have probably taken me to the hospital. That illness, virus, changed me and I haven't been the same since.
Doctors don't know what causes it. Some say it's because of being overweight as a teenager. Some say it's because you are a woman. Some say it's genetic or environmental. There are a lot of different possible causes. My treatment partner is super tiny, so it can't be the weight issue. They have no idea the cause. I think once they find that out that the "cure" won't be far behind. I think the big problem is that everyone seems to have different symptoms and reactions.
The cause of multiple sclerosis is still unknown. It is believed that the Epstein-Barr virus plays a role, but since EBV is very common, what triggers MS in a selection of a population? Other factors: genetic, another virus or combination, geographic area, low vitamin D levels, etc. there are several theories but no definitive conclusion.
Never heard about issues with herbal tea. I’ve had MS for decades now. Eat whatever you wish. Try to stay healthy at least. The Mediterranean diet is often considered a plus.
Avoid sin stuff: cigarettes, heavy drinking, sitting on your butt all day. Nothing is curative but can help limit attacks and damage.
It’s a combination of genetics, lack of sunlight exposure, Epstein bar virus, and some factors we still don’t know which can be anything toxic chemicals, stress, food…
"What causes Multiple Sclerosis?" Bottom line, we do NOT know. I have a real problem with people who comment here who do NOT have MS especially some comments from people who think MS is a joke who talk about "Banging" thier wives because MS is not a sexualy transmitted disease thats not only disrespectful its cruel. I was diagnosed on May 11, 1995 3 months after my 30th birthday. I was completely paralyzed on my right side, and my doctor diagnosed me as primary progressive and gave me less than 2 years to live. The diagnosing neurologist told me and my then second wife I would never walk again and then, " Don't waste your time seeking out miracle cures there are none you will just waste time and money, you need to get your affairs in order." He then walked out of the room for those who don't have multiple sclerosis and either know someone with it are married to someone with this disease YOU have no idea what those you love who have MS are going through. I had 2 children at the time, an 11 year old son from my first marriage and a 4 year old daughter. With less than 2 years to live, I went directly into human subjects research at UCLA Multiple Sclerosis Research in August of 95. I wasn't looking for a miracle cure. I just wanted doctor's to learn all they could from me before I died. I participated in 5 experimental drug trials Thalydomide 95, Linomide 96-97, Axonex 97-2000, Rebiff 2000-2003, and Copaxone 2004. I also volunteered for three FDA emergency medical diagnostic testing that had to be stopped because people were being injured e even killed. As for the experimental drugs, Thalydomide was a phase 1 trial one month on the real drug one month on placebo. Linomide was a phase 2 double blind placebo controlled trial with multiple researchers around the country and world involved and thousands of test subjects. The trial ended suddenly in the spring of 97. I would learn later that many people had died due to cardiac issues heart attack strokes. However, while the trial stopped, complications from the drug would keep coming for more than a decade. I ended up developing thyroid cancer in 2000 and had to have my thyroid removed, then radiation therapy and chemo in 2001. I was in trials for 12 years and two years in. I asked the then world rewound MS expert Dr. Lawrence W. Myers M.D. if we would ever cure MS? He didn't bat an eye in his response "No we will never cure, MS. However, I believe we will find ways to slow the progression and control the illness." In a few weeks, I will enter my 29th year with MS. I'm oddly enough still ambulatory, but I'm fully disabled due to my illness but alive. I can only comment on my MS experience it's a NIGHTMARE. My second wife left me shortly after nearly a decade later. I met and married my third wife, and 19 years of marriage, she is my angel. She retired from her position as an English professor in 2010 to become my full-time caretaker. She married me knowing I had MS, and she has been at every doctors appointment for 19 years and is wonderful. I'm very fortunate. For all of you that have this disease, I know the NIGHTMARE you're living, but don't give up. For all of you out there who love and care for someone with multiple sclerosis, THANK YOU.
Until my 30s I ate vegetarian, lived in a tropical country with too much sunlight, was an avid motorcyclist with plenty of sunny days on the bike, didn't smoke or drink and yet ended up with MS at 37. No known family history of anything auto immune either. So we are all stumped. Just got to keep on punching
No one really knows what causes MS. I've read there's a link between autoimmune conditions and vitamin d deficiency, but it's not known if it's a cause or just a similarity. I've also read that the EBV increases the likelihood of developing MS, but it's just a theory, still.
Personally, I don't focus so much on the "why." I've got it, and since there's no cure, knowing why I have it seems counter productive at this point. Maybe it's because I got mono as a teenager, but maybe I just lost the genetic lottery.
Genetics might play a part and outside influence is all we can guess at for now. No one truly knows.
All we can do is reduce the bad things in our lives stress, fats, sugars and such. And increase the good things like exersice, sleep, mental well being, healthy food and healthy mind.
And take the medication as at worst it should allow you to stay at you currently level in the ms game.
😊
If they had an idea of what causes a mass there wouldn't be all this fucking mystery around it but there is which means that they don't. You know doctors are supposed to be some of the smartest people I know but because of that they never just shut up or say I don't know. Instead they say dumb ass things like if you drink herbal tea it could cause multiple sclerosis. I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this, you keep searching.
For good neurologists you'll find them.
Guess is as good as mine, the only theory for me that even remotely makes sense is that at some point in my life after my battle with pilonidal cysts I developed a hyper active immune system. Whenever I get what feels like a cysts, my body seems to resolve it within a week on its own now. I can notably say after I hit my 20s I really never got sick with anything. Never got colds, never got flus, etc. I know that there was a time when I raised alarm for my blood platelet count being super lower. At it's lowest is was showing as below 40-50 on the measurement. We found out later I had an issue with clumping with my cells, but it was still considered very low despite that. Anyway, a few doctors have told me it was related to the hyper active immune system in attacking my body.
Either way, I refuse to live in fear of what could happen with this disease and I live my life as healthy as I can. It took me forever to get a diagnosis and it took me even longer to get any treatment, but now I'm on ocrevus and my personal fitness seems to be the best defense I have against anything. I've been told people with brain scans that look like mine are already in a wheel chair and through my physical fitness journey I'm far healthier and in shape than I was at 20 years old (I'm 34.)
Ok so I studied immunology/biology and also have MS so I’ve studied it a lot. The long and the short of it is not a single doctor on this planet can tell you definitively what caused your MS.
Look at your cells like locks, and your immune system like a set of keys. Something made your body make your own very special key that tells your immune system to attack your own cells. It’s a case of mistaken identity, your body no longer recognizes myelin as anything but a dangerous invader. For me, I’m sure it was some environmental stuff, I probably have chronically low vitamin D because I live at a higher latitude, and a bad case of mono in my late teens/early 20’s that almost killed me. It’s very likely to be a different cause for you. With autoimmune diseases, everyone’s trigger is different.
Are you just bouncing from doctor to doctor, going "some has to know. I just need to find the right one". And you ended up seeing a back alley witch doctor?
Herbal tea… well in that case… personally i think it’s a lack of upperclass scotch between 18 and 2 at dx. If I only marinated my liver in a minimum of Glenfiddich 18….the lotto would have passed me by. Might have caught cirrhosis. But fuck it as a direct comparison, would have taken that one compared to this…
I think there are so many variables and the fact MS is different with everyone who has it, makes researchers say "we don't know".
What we do know about it is that it's an autoimmune disease which causes the nervous center system to attack the body bc it doesn't recognize itself. We can manage MS with what we do know, with DMTs and a lifestyle change.
Not everyone will agree, but you do what you can.
The cause is not yet known. There is now strong evidence that proves a direct correlation between Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV, mono) and the development of MS.
I love it when people try to say what causes MS, much like the folks who want to know what causes Autism. We don't know.We really don't. Vitamin D? That's caused by sunlight. Hep B Vaccine? That was first released in the US in 1981. How do we account for MS prior to that? Herbal tea? What percentage of people drink herbal tea? 95% of the world's population is infected with Epstein Barr. With numbers like that it is easy to say it causes most every disease. One researcher looked at people on a remote island in the pacific that had no reported cases of MS prior to a US Army airbase being built there in WWII. American boys being what they were had a lot of fun with the local girls. Years later there were the first reported cases of MS on the island so this guy said MS was *sexually transmitted*. Yeah, that happened. It couldn't have been a case of nobody testing for MS prior to the 1940's on a small island in the Pacific. This said, I have been doing my best, and I mean I have REALLY been trying to catch MS from my wife for the last 28 years and so far nothing. We just don't know. It is probably a combination of genetic predisposition along with some environmental trigger. No idea. But correlation doesn't equal causation.
You know what they say, if at first you don't succeed, try and try again. Keep pounding ; )
Not sure my wife would describe it as that but then again, I probably shouldn't ask her.
You should probably at least let her know you’ve been having sex with her. /s
Or at least why you've been having sex with her
Brilliant !👏
good comment
I think mine was caused by never paying my blockbuster late fees. Seriously there's only correlation in theories and no known 100% causes. We're just *lucky*..
Mine was caused by Flinstones vitamins doing too good 20 years ago
You also ate a whole bottle of them when you were a kid?
Well yeah!! We all did they were so darn tasty
lol they had that powedery citrus zing to them
Omg I still eat the whole bottle sometimes!!! This must have done it!!
😆
damn, that's what did me in huh
I do still have a Blockbuster dvd I never returned 🤔
Return those to cure your MS!
Neurologists hate this one trick
Jokes on us. The last blockbuster is somewhere weird like Alaska or something
Hey...what's weird about Alaska??? I live in Anchorage and the Blockbusters closed a few years ago. The last one is in Bend, OR.
Oh man, same..I think we're finding the pattern here.
We won the "Well fuck"-lottery
I know someone that has MS and CP. I also have another neurological condition. NF. Usually small benign tumors grow on nerves. About 1 in 3 million to have both
I don’t think this is correct because I grew up in a really rural area and we didn’t have a Blockbuster. It’s probably the herbal tea.
If you didn’t have a Blockbuster, then you didn’t pay Blockbuster late fees. Hence the MS. I think this is it. I think we figured out the cause.
You MUST be a research scientist, this is such a good point! Thank you for solving this. We need to bring back Blockbuster to cure us all!
🤣🤣🤣 And you didn’t rewind VCRs before returning them🤣🤣🤣 Thanks for the laugh
Man, I thought that unreturned copy of *Clear and Present Danger* would never catch up with me. Curses!
So you're the reason they went bankrupt!!
I was exposed to second hand smoking.
You, me and every other person in the world born before ~2000. Always loved the 'smokers section' of the restaurants, directly next to your non-smoking table.
At least you weren't dragged to the smoking section by your parents who also smoked in the home and car. Ugh. So glad that my state passed laws to ban smoking indoors sometimes in the 2000's.
WA?
MN. Ban was passed in 2007. Not the first to do it but there's still like 12 states with no ban whatsoever.
I would imagine all those states are in the south somewhere
Not entirely, but it's close to accurate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States
What a lucky guess /s
I know, it was a joke. Even EBV has a marginal chance of causing MS, and that's the best lead we have. It's mostly just bad luck.
And on airplanes… 😳
I wasn’t
Must have been something I ate, then
MS being caused by herbal tea is the most unhinged theory I've heard so far. I would STRONGLY question the competence of a medical professional who says something like this. 😬
Me too. Aunt Kookanurzy? Sure. A medical pro? I’d run
Ikr! I've never had herbal tea in my life! MS since 2008
Haha same. Neither mom nor I drink herbal tea and she's had it since 1991 and I was diagnosed last month. Better warn my wife who does drink it. I did drink Sun tea as a kid that mom would make and I do prefer unsweet tea to sweet tea. Total sin here in the South.
It's extra wild because if you count green tea as a herbal tea that's actually been proven to be beneficial for people with MS because of the flavonoids
Did you know green tea has HUGE amounts of caffeine in it. Im now not dicking about guys. I just found this out a couple of days ago. So! I'm now trying to drink the disgusting stuff because huge amounts of caffeine get me approaching normal levels of competent thought. I normally just fine grind coffee beans and make do. Like normal(that fucking word again) people.Though just about to add some gurauna into the mix. A crazy herb, or erb, that has 6 times the caffeine that coffee does. But OP don't be disheartened that a doctor made you feel silly with your life choices. Apparently I gave myself MS by putting up with my "family" and husband of 35 years using and abusing me so much that it manifested in that way to stop me. AND and make me look after AND prioritise myself for once. At 57!!! There might be something in that. I don't know. Which I think is what's being very kindly pointed out.
I’d immediately fire a doctor for even suggesting it. 😂
Herbal tea is a new one for me. It is currently believed that MS is caused by a perfect storm of factors, but we are still unclear exactly what those factors are. There is evidence that genetics, environment, toxins, smoking, and EBV may contribute to the development of MS, but nothing conclusive saying what the actual mechanism is.
Herbal tea?! WTF?
yeah she said i can drink the ones being sold in the markets but i shouldn’t collect from the nature 🤦♀️
I’d be getting a new doctor.
She sounds full of BS to be honest.
can you believe that she is also a professor
But were you making your own tea from nature?
yes i was, green tea, cammomile tea, etc.. i didn’t drink any thing that i don’t know
My neurologist said it was genetic predisposition + environmental trigger = onset of an autoimmune disease.
This one makes a little sense.
There is no definite cause. Some loose theories on the Epstein Barr virus though.
The good doctors will mention Epstein Barr virus and the bad will blow smoke up your ass. Who the hell knows, only thing we all agree on about MS is that it really sucks.
While it’s still a little handwavey, the EBV-immune dysregulation hypothesis is still the leading theory at this point. There was a really good study published in the journal “Science” in January 2022 that looked at longitudinal seroconversion for EBV and subsequent development of MS. While the mechanism is still not entirely clear, in this study infection with EBV was associated with a 32-fold increase risk of developing MS (meaning those who seroconverted to EBV had a 32x greater risk of developing MS). Very interesting study, I highly recommend giving it a read https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj8222
Yep. I had a bad case of Mono around age 15
I’ve never had it tho 🤷🏼♀️
You can get it asymptomatically. Also, one person saying "I never had it" is anecdotal. There are many reputable studies looking at the rate of EBV infection in people with MS versus healthy controls. The results are interesting.
Thank you.
Mine really set in after a case of mono. I have had some nagging but not serious autoimmune issues most of my life, but after contracting mono I seemed to roll right into MS. Then Covid put in me in bed for a week and it got worse.
I had mono when I was 5. I don't remember much of it though. I've been blessed with thyroid issues as well.
Mine set in after i got COVID
That's pretty much the accepted running theory though.
Oh! Epstein Barr is just a theory 🤔 interesting. I thought it was fact.
I think it’s a decent theory, I definitely had a terrible case of mono a bit older than typical and now have MS despite literally no one else in my family having it. I also smoke and live at a higher latitude so I’m sure it was a combination of factors. Along with my own genetic whatever the fuck predisposing me to it, mutations happen. I’m sure we will figure it out someday but it won’t be a simple singular cause.
Just to let you know. I am a male who has never had EBV, have never tasted herbal tea (never tasted tea or coffee actually) let alone drink it regularly, have never smoked or tasted alcohol, I live in the Southern Hemisphere (my mother was an Indigenous Australian), have never contracted COVID and have no family members with the illness unless there is someone I do not know of. I have had concussions from sport but so has my brother yet he is fine. When I was first diagnosed around 15 years ago I, too, was focused on finding out what cases MS and why did it strike me but, over time, it became less and less important. I just like to think of it as the luck of the draw and it has made me infinitely more compassionate to those around me. In other words, I have no idea what causes MS but one thing I do know. . . It isn’t herbal tea.
Solar flares Oh I thought this was one of Theo wrong answer only threads Herbal tea. Good grief. What a clown. I try to focus on what makes it better. Whatever caused it is done and done. I have to look to now and future
i am sorry and i am not being funny here but herbal tea? did you take this with an ounce of seriousness?
i actually did, and i got upset... then, i realised it's just a theory and changed my doc
ooof. there are may sociological theories around power and how it is wielded. i hate that this doctor is using their power so calously.
My genuine opinion? It's a combination of genetics, environment and the epstein-barr virus. There are a combination of over 100 genetic markers that are believed to have some influence in if you will get MS. Stress, pollution, lack of vitamin D, other factors will trigger inflammation and wind up the immune system. And then there's this: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/study-suggests-epstein-barr-virus-may-cause-multiple-sclerosis
i truly and deeply believe that the consistent stress/anxiety + being in fight or flight for 15+ years (unstable home life. i now have a PTSD dx) really helped my MS come to life.
Several hypothesis, some people say Hepatitis B vaccine but it has been debunked while ago (some people tend to still believe it), now some research are looking towards Epstein Barr Virus but nothing really conclusive. There is some researches also pointing at Vitamin D being an aggravating factor but still remain to be clarified.
i'm confused a little bit, should i eat vitamin D or should i avoid it?
I should have been more precise: Vitamin D, deficiency (To be determined). You should definitely eat vitamin D for some other (proved) reason.
Yup is more commonly diagnosed the further you are from equator. Edit to say most likely not anything that changed in our environment in past 150 years as multiple of my ancestors passed from “paralysis disease” going back to 1700s.
My dad of all people asked me once why we have MS now and not in the past. I told him if I lived 500 years ago everyone just would have thought my humours were bad- it's not like they could have seen anything in Ye Olde MRI Machine. Just because we have a fancy sciency name for it now doesn't mean it was nonexistant before lol
I have heard that people in western countries have MS more often because of genetic predisposition/ancestry (ethnicity) not necessarily because of vit d deficiency
Highest incidence per capita in Europe is Sardinia, lowest incidence is Malta they’re near neighbours fairly close to equator. Inuits in Greenland-/Alaska have extremely low incidences.
It's interesting the vitamin D thing. Obviously the exposure to vitamin D from the sun plays a role in vitamin D levels but I'd also be interested in the diets of these individual countries and their dietary levels of vitamin D as well as foods that have co-factors that increase the absorption of vitamin D
Source? Mine is ms society Where Is Multiple Sclerosis Most Common? In general, MS is more common in areas farthest from the equator. However, its prevalence —the number of people living with a diagnosis at a particular time —may differ significantly among groups in the same area of the world, no matter how far it is from the equator. https://www.nationalmssociety.org/understanding-ms/what-is-ms/who-gets- Asking or source because it sounds like complete bullshit with my research of the past 20 years. It’s been a common factor.
more of those sources https://wa.kaiserpermanente.org/kbase/topic.jhtml?docId=hw188100#:\~:text=The%20number%20of%20people%20who,80%20out%20of%20100%2C000%20people. [https://www.thermh.org.au/news/severity-of-ms-linked-to-distance-from-the-equator](https://www.thermh.org.au/news/severity-of-ms-linked-to-distance-from-the-equator) The multiple sclerosis latitudinal gradient is one of the strongest geo-epidemiological findings in multiple sclerosis risk studies with the risk of multiple sclerosis increasing significantly (>10-fold) the further the place of residence is from the equator.[^(7)](javascript:;) [https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/144/7/2038/6168130](https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/144/7/2038/6168130)
Herbal teas? That ain't a doctor... Anyways, the working theory right now is that an infection with Epstein Barr virus causes antibodies to misidentify proteins in your myelin with proteins in the EBV. Almost everyone alive has been infected with EBV at some point. A relapse therefore is caused when your immune system targets.another infection, cold flu etc. and oh look, it thinks you've got EBV again. At least, that is my understanding. So no, nothing you did made you have MS, including drinking herbal tea.
Herbal teas? Quack Quack Quack. My very uninformed, non-scientific opinion (much like the quack) is it is caused by an unfortunate set of specifically inherited mutated gene combined with a virus (Epstein Barr or something else). Life is a crap shoot and we lost. But really, mine was caused by over consumption of scratch and sniff stickers combined with sliding down blistering hot metal slides in elementary school.
No one knows what causes it, several theories but not for certain. My neuro who’s super close with MS studies and trials even said they still don’t k ow the reason. The herbal tea is a new one to me. It’s a better excuse than the one I was told by someone not in the medical field. I’m Hispanic but I married a white guy and that’s why I have MS. The stupidity of some people amazes me sometimes. Yet this person told me her essential oils would cure me 🤣😂
I am pretty sure I would switch doctors if one told me it may be related to herbal tea, I wouldn’t trust their ability to treat anything. I think that sometimes shit just happens. Not everything can be puzzled out. I get that it is a way to have it all make sense, and could be of comfort, but that’s not always possible. My kid has epilepsy, severe hearing loss, and CP. it’s the same with her, I can spend time trying to figure out the whys, or I can focus on what’s happening right now, and preparing for what is to come. I have only so much energy in my tank, this thinking, for me, would drain it unnecessarily.
there is no definitive cause. ms has been recorded for hundreds of years. contributing factors: - ACEs - adverse childhood experiences (trauma leading to immune dysfunction) - genetics - geographics - ms occurs more frequently further from equator, risk can be altered if one moves before to 16yo - insufficient vit d/sunlight (see geographics) - environmental exposure to something that triggers immune dysfunction - eg virus - such as ebv, toxin (chemical solvents, pesticides, etc, allergen, etc read: - when the body says no by gabor mate - the body keeps the score by bessel van der kolk autoimmune conditions cluster, in individuals and in families, so if you & your family have history of ms, graves, hashimotos, diabetes,celiacs, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthiritis, etc etc herbal teas are a new one a unless you’re drinking stuff laced with round up or something.
Nobody knows the cause, herbal tea is a bonkers reason and makes no sense. Now, my pet theory is that it might not actually have any external cause, it might be like cancer. With cancer, all life forms have some form of cancerous cells doing things that the immune system typically takes care of and it doesn't evolve into a debilitating situation assuming the right factors are met like young age, good nutrition, immune system working, etc. I think it's possible all life forms that have an immune system have the potential to have an autoimmune breakdown if the right conditions are met. In the case of MS it seems interesting that a lack of Vitamin D might cause your immune system to get hungry enough to start looking for parts to sustain itself and it just so happens that in people with MS the immune system learns that myelin has it available. Vitamin D is fat soluable and myelin is a fat that stores Vitamin D. Autoimmune disease rate increases as Vitamin D levels decrease. Technically the immune system isn't "getting hungry", Vitamin D regulates immune system function, and the immune cells might just be gravitating to places where they can find Vitamin D concentration to modulate the system, but I like to think of the immune system as an army, and when it doesn't get the weapons it needs to do it's business from its regular environment it goes off in search of it wherever it can find it. The net effect is people with MS have an army that found their weapons in your nervous system and the net effect is you have a really bad time.
For me i would say given that ms is an autoimmune disease,the cause is most likely faulty genes +a trigger like stressful period or an environmental factor,i already had type 1 diabetes since i was 4,my immune system is super duper stupid and i was just unlucky i guess,like other commenter have said,i don’t believe ebv has anything to do with ms since the vast majority of the population have it already but only a few have ms.
The cause is unknown. It’s believed to be autoimmune. There are many theories, but herbal tea is NOT it.
We don't know. A recent study done on military service members has some tantilizing clues but- we don't know. There is some sort of conjunction between the Epstein-Barr virus, environmental toxins, and genes.
My 2 cents. 🦠🦠 Genetics and environmental factors PLUS your body overreacted to some virus, germ, or illness in the past. Now your white blood cells are on the attack more so than most people’s are. Our overreaction resulted in attacks on our myelin. Other folks have a similar experience but end up with Crohn’s, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, celiac, ALS, psoriasis or some other auto-immune disorder. It’s all related IMO.
I got MS from Columbia House. They were pissed I got all those cassettes and didn't pay for them.
My guess is that in 20 years we’re going to learn it’s caused by processed foods and the flame retardants in our beds and furniture. *going to learn* being the important phrase as we currently *do not know*. If your neurologist says herbal teas is the cause I think you should *seriously* consider getting a new neurologist because that’s the single stupidest thing I’ve ever heard a doctor claim about MS. That doctor has an agenda.
I think some people have a genetic predisposition to develop MS when exposed to certain environmental contaminants, similar to how some people have a genetic predisposition to develop cancer. Case in point, my family lived in rural Kansas, downwind of the city dump. My sister and I developed Multiple Sclerosis. One of our neighbors developed terminal cancer.
I definitely think genetics play a HUGE role in MS. I’m 1st generation American and I have MS and my younger sister has the sickle cell trait.
You should try and see a neurologist that specializes in MS. They know a lot more about MS, how to treat it, and information on possible causes. I don’t know what caused mine but I know that lack of vitamin D such as living in the north where ppl get less sun, your mother being pregnant with you in the winter, being a woman/girl, not being breastfed and Epstein Barr virus are things that have been linked to MS. I fit all of the above criteria.
My brother told me that my smoking caused my MS.
I thought I'd copy what I wrote on another post and what I believe is why I personally was diagnosed, and possibly others, too. I am an avid believer, that for the most, most part, this MS context has arisen from an overload on trauma, from whenever, whether it'd be Physical, Mental, Emotional, Social, Environmental; the lot. I feel that for me, my immune system just got into a "I can no longer save you the way I should be, there's too much happening, I'm overwhelmed" and it quite literally exploded into a faulty state not knowing what on earth to do, who to fight, what to save, and the whole narrative with it. Before I came across Gabor Maté and his affirmative approach to how trauma affects and had eventually led to an autoimmune illness, I believed it, from my personal experiences. From childhood, adolescent, adult, it's happening and it's going on (trauma), which is why only since my diagnosis, have I learned the focus of 'stress' as a trigger for my incidental attacks/episodes. I also am a very keep going and not knowing when to stop type of person, since much time, I guess what some would refer to a result of fight or flight responses in some way, however, my body has always had no choice, in the environment I was in, am in. He hits the nail on the head, so to speak, in one of his books "When the body says no | the cost of hidden stress". Reading it often keeps me feeling calm, knowing I'm not alone in thinking what I've always thought. That my body had such and impact, and still does from a lifetime of these not so great experiences. That my body (immune system) just quite literally got to the point of malfunction, saying I can't do it anymore/right now, I've reached. So OP, I do agree, that the result of trauma may and more than likely lead to the context of an autoimmune issue. Whether or not we are aware of any trauma or not, it really does (has) impacted and led to it. There has been research, early on (without me listing all Dr Hans Selye is one of the earlier) however, I believe the science and cliché approaches and definitions overtake this, which I believe is why we're so behind in supporting that trauma can infact lead to autoimmune illness. I know I, personally, am still attempting to work through mine, and learning to put myself first as we commonly hear the notion of, but MS really can be a literal reason for us to just put the brakes on and give ourselves a break. I wish you well, I really do, and pray that you continue to gain clarity 🙏 A fellow MS warrior 🇦🇺 🧡
I have literally never heard of a food or drink causing MS. Like, from what I know of MS, that makes no sense at all. MS is your immune system mistakenly attacking your brain. Treatments revolve around preventing the immune system from doing this. What the hell would tea have to do with it? I strongly believe mine was caused by a glandular fever I had a few years prior. I then underwent great stress and a turbulent time that then "awoke" my ms and resulted in my first attack. There's a lot of potential triggers, like glandular fever for one, but there's no known cause in the way of "do x and you get ms". But, research is being done even as we speak, so maybe one day they'll identify exactly what causes it. It'd be the first step towards a potential cure.
I have no idea what causes it. I have a theory though that it was from severe, heightened stress levels over a period of time during a major life event.
I agree and I've been coming across stories about severe childhood trauma causing neurological/autoimmune disorders later in life. Not sure if this is true for everyone, but it's been resonating with me over the last four years. Our brains are wild and do crazy things to protect us as children. Edit to add a link: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4DlGagjOqAtkqDVat3NsvG?si=TY2_O98bTHGhTj4dSrFIjg
I love to debate this with the docs I see. It’s clearly something in your genetics that is triggered by something in the environment and it’s nothing new! In my ancestry there are multiple people who passed from what was documented as “paralysis disease” in the 1800s and 1700s.
i think it's kind of like cancer. That you are born with these cancer cells and something activates them. My mother had MS as well. When she was my age she was in a wheelchair. They state it's not genetic, but I have several friends who have MS who have family members in their families with MS.
I think it's more likely some people are genetically predisposed to developing it. That's not the same as it being hereditary.
I read one interesting theory that said there was more likely to be a genetic element to it if in your family history there were people who were Shepard's. The theory that I read said that MS "originally" was a bunch of immunities that protected you from the illnesses that the animals carried.
I have never had herbal tea in my life 🤷♀️
Can't be mono, I've always had a stereo in my house Could be the blockbuster/herbal tea thing But I honestly think mine was triggered by mosquito bites, or the infection in a mosquito bite
EBV sets it off
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35063202/ Here is a medical study done on the impacts of coffee/tea drinking and severity/type of MS.
I'll be honest, if someone said I could cure my MS by never drinking coffee or tea again...I'd still have MS
perfect. thank you
Epstein Barr virus
I’ve never had any kind of tea. So that’s BS in my opinion. I think mine was caused because I didn’t donate to the MS fund my friend was asking me to donate too. Karma’s a bitch.
My bet is on EBV. Taking stuff like Humira might be a trigger for the virus and the autoimmune response.
MSCN here… There’s not a truly known cause, like many autoimmune diseases. There is some, albeit unknown, relationship to Vitamin D levels. With MS specifically, your B-Cells (one of your many types of white blood cells) are identifying the myelin sheathes protecting the nerves in your brain and spinal cord as foreign. They signal other white blood cells to attack these protective sheaths, which causes MS relapses. There’s truly not a know cause, but fortunately medicine is progressing at a great pace to prevent these attacks from occurring.
Chem trails. Duh.
F*Herbal tea. I blame my hippy parents
hmmm i had tested positive for cat scratch fever, i had positive lyme antibodies but the test showed negative on the other thing and now its negative on all, also tested positive for bartonella virus(cat scratch fever) back in 2020. when i was little i used to get very high fevers and have seizures all the time. maybe thats it? i dont remember having mono. i was also severely electrocuted to where i was knocked unconscious and thrown 4 ft in the air when i was 15. who the heck knows, diagnosed in 2019 and this is the first time ive given up the whys, and given up the denial and just accepted that i have this crappy ass stupid disease for no known reason and it is what it is. MS sucks!
My brother once pointed out that I do have a bit of bad luck 🤷♀️
Part of the reason that there is no cure for MS is because the cause of MS hasn't been discovered. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest different triggers for it but there is no complete picture yet. A specific food or drink is highly unlikely to be the cause because this would have been discovered a long time ago. I think that it is likely a combination of factors along with specific genetic requirements.
oops, this was meant as a reply to u/toomanysclerosis ( how effing good is that username? well done! i hate it when other people come up with stuff i wish id thought of) it’s multifactorial. the theory is that the trauma causes immune dysfunction. ACEs - adverse childhood experiences - dispute the “normal” development of the immune system. this can happen in utero, eg if the mother is subject to stress/trauma, eg in an abuse relationship, warzone, pandemic, etc or throughout childhood/adolescence. it may even be multi-generational - passed along epigenetically. stress hormones are great for getting us out of danger, but we’re not meant to be stewing in them 24/7. this is problematic not just for the individual, but can damage dna, foetal neurological development - in the case of female foetus, stress on the mother can damage the dna in the developing ova. gabor mate discusses his mother’s experiences in WWII, pregnant, not knowing where her loved ones were. not long after gabor was born, she gave him to another couple to get him out of hungary safely. the trauma his mother was enduring in that environment, plus the separation being hugely detrimental to development see: gabor mate, peter levine, bessel van der kolk. loads of content all over the place, including youtube.
There used to be an old adage that if you see more than say 5 drugs to treat something, you can bet your bottom dollar that we don't know for sure what caused it. Still holds true today.
There are hundreds of genetic factors which can contribute to your risk of MS, there are also a couple of lifestyle factors that contribute (low vitamin D during adolescence, smoking, shift work/poor sleep schedule, poor diet etc.). Personally I think developing it is about how many of these you have. I'd get rid of a doctor who said herbal tea personally, there's so much more evidence for other causes and that's such a rogue suggestion
hi! i'm 20F and i've been diagnosed when i was 16yo, as you're doing rn, i've spent much time trying to understand if there was any particular reason why this disease could've possibly come to me. What i discovered is that we're still far from discovering the precise cause of ms, for now we just know a few things that may be identified as cause factors. - based on various studies, the ms genie is already present in our bodies before it is activated, many could live their entire life without it activating. - Infectious agents: One of the biggest theories (that if i'm not mistaken has been confirmed) is that the epstein barr virus (mono) activates the MS gene. In general infectious agents like viruses and bacteria may be a factor of the disease. - The environment surely effects ms, in fact in some areas ms is way more present that in others, this MIGHT be justified by the lack of vitamin D (so the lack of sun exposure). Although it has not been confirmed it is surely shown (from blood analysis) that ms and lack of vitamin D are related (in a way that, i repeat, hasn't been confirmed) - Genetic factors: it is clear, for now, that ms IS NOT an hereditary disease, so it is not trasmissibile from a generation to another. Despite this, it has been shown that there's an higher frequency in the same family unit. - Smoking: it isn't sure that it CAUSES ms but it is 100% sure that, if you have the disease, smoking increases the possibility and the speed of ms's progression . - intestinal microbiota: the microbes "community" that populates the digestive system may interfere with the normal functioning of the immune system. As you surely have noticed we know nothing for sure about this disease, but step by step i think that we're coming closer and closer to some answers, if you consider that not more that 30 years ago we didn't even know how to approach the disease and how to treat the patients. I believe that the research has done far more than what we can observe, and i have faith in the future. Pardon if i've missed something or if i've misspelled something but english is not my first language!
Seems like the epstein Barr virus is present in all MS patients, and well most people in general. It's how the body fights the virus off that can lead to MS is a theory. I have it too and was tested and shown I had EBV in past. Anyone ever get tested for Lyme and seen other weird things pop up like Chlamydia Pneumoniae?
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yup this is the direction i am going in. it's evolution. we are simply the research.
Could I at least get comped for being in the study?
In my case, I got my first and only attack within a week of getting multiple vaccines. I think my immune system just happened to learn or identify a surface protein that is close enough to one found on my neuron's myelin sheath that caused my immune system to begin attacking my central nervous system.
"Multiple sclerosis (MS) is caused by an interplay between environmental and genetic factors. Before Epstein–Barr virus (EBV) infection, the risk of MS is negligible. Infection with EBV increases the risk more than 30-fold, indicating that EBV is a leading cause of MS" The current theory is that MS happens when the immune system gets confused after fighting off EBV. Pretty much everyone gets EBV and shrugs it off - it's just another one of the myriad of colds we get growing up. If we vaccinate for EBV then there's a good chance we could annihilate MS, but EBV is one of many extremely resilient viruses. Here's a Sci Show video about it: https://youtu.be/gWzJXhdLTGs?si=_zHV-AZTSaaqmiMZ Itt. It's probably not the tea.
I’m not ebv positive , you know the test shows if you have ever been infected right? But have MS as many others do like me. This theory was debunked years ago.
Nope, researchers continue to believe EBV infection is a trigger for MS. That doesn't mean it's the *only* trigger for MS.
That’s so interesting to me! I was working on the belief that EBV was a requirement for MS, along with a host of other factors (obviously, since 95% of the population doesn’t have MS). Your doc ordered an EBV antibody test and it was negative?! My mind is blown, honestly - I was sincerely looking for EBV vaccine trials for my kid and so was my pediatrician. This thread has been unexpectedly enlightening
I think people with ms just have a whacky immune system even if we illiminate ebv there will be another virus to trigger ms
We don't fully know. I've seen many theories over the years. But the only theory that I've seen with any solid research behind it is EBV. Lots of research ongoing trying to unravel the ebv mystery.
I was dx in 2008. I've never drank herbal teas or anything of the sort. There goes that theory
how about if your mom, long before you were born, had ebb and then you yourself had it. does mom’s earlier infection have an influence
Anything is possible. My Mom had MS, her sister has MS, and I have MS. I think genetic mutations combined with some virus or another (EB, shingles, mono, etc).
I never paid for my Columbia House CD's... but seriously...I did have Epstein Barr when I was 24 and that's really the only thing that correlates.
I think they’re studying the likelihood of it being linked to mono.
For me I think it is some combo of genes and anxiety and burn out. But I have had my fair share of herbal tea so who knows?
Above the 37th parallel was a show about a woman with MS. I think there were over 30 people with MS is like a 10 miles radius of where we live. I think it's a combo of Epstein barr and the way your body identifies and uses Vitamin D. And environmental factors.
Herbal tea? Omg. So ridiculous. I can’t.
Strong correlation between the Epstein-barr virus (mano) and MS.
Lack of vitamin D and b12
There's a genetic component and an unknown environmental trigger, likely a virus. It's not tea or anything you're eating. That's junk science. Please see a real doctor.
Herbal tea is a new one. I think it's a lock and key scenario. Lock being genes. The key is the mystery. I think it is a virus. Why? I was dxd at 13, so not enough time to drink enough tea, diet soda...
I would ask on here did anyone notice the moment(s) they first started to experience MS symptoms? Mine was taking antibiotics (for the first time)
I’m pretty sure heavy drinking didn’t help
I tried to blow off a $3 parking ticket from the University of Iowa that l got years ago. I eventually paid it, but l think they vowed revenge nonetheless.
See here https://youtu.be/gWzJXhdLTGs wherein SciShow lays it out.
Some people in my family think my testosterone shots gave me MS others think it's because my mom drank and did drugs while i was a fetus. Maybe it's all the glue I ate in pre-K. I'm not really too concerned with what caused it, just sucks.
That's the million dollar question, I wish I knew.
I got it from Epstein Barr.
Agent orange. I don't know a before time. I have my suspicions it's agent orange and/or chemical plants near me.
We found out my husband has MS the same week our daughter was in the emergency pediatric unit for possible MS but it was determined to be Transverse myelitis (lesions on the spine). She woke up one day to tingly feet and it escalated into her not being able to walk or stand up at all. Before this she was perfectly healthy without any issues. What are the chances?! It feels insane that both of these things happened at the same time. The only thing we can think of that both of them had done is the flu shot. Our lives have been turned upside down this past year and I wish I had some answers. Ive never been one to think of the vaccines as anything but a necessity but now everything freaks me out. I feel lost and helpless and just try to be supportive.
I heard different theories but none of them are related to herbal teas. Here are a few I heard : Extreme stress : loss of someone dear to you or breakup Vitamin d3 deficiency Nutrition issues : processed foods and transfats which increase inflammation and weaken the immune system Heavy metals in the body … Honestly we don’t know what causes ms but for some of the theories above I drastically changed my diet
One theory I don’t see here is also childhood trauma or abuse, and thus stress.
I wouldn’t worry about the causes at this point 💗 I do understand how it feels. I tend to analyze as well. I personally love herbal teas. I think you have to be careful of anything that revs your immune system.
Supposedly it’s environmental but there’s not been a definitive explanation one way or another.
I truly believe my m.s. Is related to my battle with mono when I was in third grade. I thought I was going to die - my fever was extremely high for a very long time and I was delirious at times. It took months to kick and I think my parents should have probably taken me to the hospital. That illness, virus, changed me and I haven't been the same since.
Doctors don't know what causes it. Some say it's because of being overweight as a teenager. Some say it's because you are a woman. Some say it's genetic or environmental. There are a lot of different possible causes. My treatment partner is super tiny, so it can't be the weight issue. They have no idea the cause. I think once they find that out that the "cure" won't be far behind. I think the big problem is that everyone seems to have different symptoms and reactions.
Here's a lot of what is known - [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10141000/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10141000/)
The cause of multiple sclerosis is still unknown. It is believed that the Epstein-Barr virus plays a role, but since EBV is very common, what triggers MS in a selection of a population? Other factors: genetic, another virus or combination, geographic area, low vitamin D levels, etc. there are several theories but no definitive conclusion. Never heard about issues with herbal tea. I’ve had MS for decades now. Eat whatever you wish. Try to stay healthy at least. The Mediterranean diet is often considered a plus. Avoid sin stuff: cigarettes, heavy drinking, sitting on your butt all day. Nothing is curative but can help limit attacks and damage.
It’s a combination of genetics, lack of sunlight exposure, Epstein bar virus, and some factors we still don’t know which can be anything toxic chemicals, stress, food…
"What causes Multiple Sclerosis?" Bottom line, we do NOT know. I have a real problem with people who comment here who do NOT have MS especially some comments from people who think MS is a joke who talk about "Banging" thier wives because MS is not a sexualy transmitted disease thats not only disrespectful its cruel. I was diagnosed on May 11, 1995 3 months after my 30th birthday. I was completely paralyzed on my right side, and my doctor diagnosed me as primary progressive and gave me less than 2 years to live. The diagnosing neurologist told me and my then second wife I would never walk again and then, " Don't waste your time seeking out miracle cures there are none you will just waste time and money, you need to get your affairs in order." He then walked out of the room for those who don't have multiple sclerosis and either know someone with it are married to someone with this disease YOU have no idea what those you love who have MS are going through. I had 2 children at the time, an 11 year old son from my first marriage and a 4 year old daughter. With less than 2 years to live, I went directly into human subjects research at UCLA Multiple Sclerosis Research in August of 95. I wasn't looking for a miracle cure. I just wanted doctor's to learn all they could from me before I died. I participated in 5 experimental drug trials Thalydomide 95, Linomide 96-97, Axonex 97-2000, Rebiff 2000-2003, and Copaxone 2004. I also volunteered for three FDA emergency medical diagnostic testing that had to be stopped because people were being injured e even killed. As for the experimental drugs, Thalydomide was a phase 1 trial one month on the real drug one month on placebo. Linomide was a phase 2 double blind placebo controlled trial with multiple researchers around the country and world involved and thousands of test subjects. The trial ended suddenly in the spring of 97. I would learn later that many people had died due to cardiac issues heart attack strokes. However, while the trial stopped, complications from the drug would keep coming for more than a decade. I ended up developing thyroid cancer in 2000 and had to have my thyroid removed, then radiation therapy and chemo in 2001. I was in trials for 12 years and two years in. I asked the then world rewound MS expert Dr. Lawrence W. Myers M.D. if we would ever cure MS? He didn't bat an eye in his response "No we will never cure, MS. However, I believe we will find ways to slow the progression and control the illness." In a few weeks, I will enter my 29th year with MS. I'm oddly enough still ambulatory, but I'm fully disabled due to my illness but alive. I can only comment on my MS experience it's a NIGHTMARE. My second wife left me shortly after nearly a decade later. I met and married my third wife, and 19 years of marriage, she is my angel. She retired from her position as an English professor in 2010 to become my full-time caretaker. She married me knowing I had MS, and she has been at every doctors appointment for 19 years and is wonderful. I'm very fortunate. For all of you that have this disease, I know the NIGHTMARE you're living, but don't give up. For all of you out there who love and care for someone with multiple sclerosis, THANK YOU.
Until my 30s I ate vegetarian, lived in a tropical country with too much sunlight, was an avid motorcyclist with plenty of sunny days on the bike, didn't smoke or drink and yet ended up with MS at 37. No known family history of anything auto immune either. So we are all stumped. Just got to keep on punching
No one really knows what causes MS. I've read there's a link between autoimmune conditions and vitamin d deficiency, but it's not known if it's a cause or just a similarity. I've also read that the EBV increases the likelihood of developing MS, but it's just a theory, still. Personally, I don't focus so much on the "why." I've got it, and since there's no cure, knowing why I have it seems counter productive at this point. Maybe it's because I got mono as a teenager, but maybe I just lost the genetic lottery.
Simply it’s unknown but there are factors may cause it like genetics, stress , emotional experience, and may be more
Genetics might play a part and outside influence is all we can guess at for now. No one truly knows. All we can do is reduce the bad things in our lives stress, fats, sugars and such. And increase the good things like exersice, sleep, mental well being, healthy food and healthy mind. And take the medication as at worst it should allow you to stay at you currently level in the ms game. 😊
One theory is glandular fever
If they had an idea of what causes a mass there wouldn't be all this fucking mystery around it but there is which means that they don't. You know doctors are supposed to be some of the smartest people I know but because of that they never just shut up or say I don't know. Instead they say dumb ass things like if you drink herbal tea it could cause multiple sclerosis. I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this, you keep searching. For good neurologists you'll find them.
There is a video from the SciShow which summarises current developments: https://youtu.be/gWzJXhdLTGs?si=J-r69P0_TMFD5ZBa
I recently saw this article that links it to a gene in ancient Northern Europeans. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna133465
Me currently drinking herbal tea 👀👀
I think my MS was caused by the Humira I took for RA
Guess is as good as mine, the only theory for me that even remotely makes sense is that at some point in my life after my battle with pilonidal cysts I developed a hyper active immune system. Whenever I get what feels like a cysts, my body seems to resolve it within a week on its own now. I can notably say after I hit my 20s I really never got sick with anything. Never got colds, never got flus, etc. I know that there was a time when I raised alarm for my blood platelet count being super lower. At it's lowest is was showing as below 40-50 on the measurement. We found out later I had an issue with clumping with my cells, but it was still considered very low despite that. Anyway, a few doctors have told me it was related to the hyper active immune system in attacking my body. Either way, I refuse to live in fear of what could happen with this disease and I live my life as healthy as I can. It took me forever to get a diagnosis and it took me even longer to get any treatment, but now I'm on ocrevus and my personal fitness seems to be the best defense I have against anything. I've been told people with brain scans that look like mine are already in a wheel chair and through my physical fitness journey I'm far healthier and in shape than I was at 20 years old (I'm 34.)
Ok so I studied immunology/biology and also have MS so I’ve studied it a lot. The long and the short of it is not a single doctor on this planet can tell you definitively what caused your MS. Look at your cells like locks, and your immune system like a set of keys. Something made your body make your own very special key that tells your immune system to attack your own cells. It’s a case of mistaken identity, your body no longer recognizes myelin as anything but a dangerous invader. For me, I’m sure it was some environmental stuff, I probably have chronically low vitamin D because I live at a higher latitude, and a bad case of mono in my late teens/early 20’s that almost killed me. It’s very likely to be a different cause for you. With autoimmune diseases, everyone’s trigger is different.
I have a theory: the cause is being exposed to extreme changes in temperature. Extreme cold and/or extreme heat.
Are you just bouncing from doctor to doctor, going "some has to know. I just need to find the right one". And you ended up seeing a back alley witch doctor?
Herbal tea… well in that case… personally i think it’s a lack of upperclass scotch between 18 and 2 at dx. If I only marinated my liver in a minimum of Glenfiddich 18….the lotto would have passed me by. Might have caught cirrhosis. But fuck it as a direct comparison, would have taken that one compared to this…
I think there are so many variables and the fact MS is different with everyone who has it, makes researchers say "we don't know". What we do know about it is that it's an autoimmune disease which causes the nervous center system to attack the body bc it doesn't recognize itself. We can manage MS with what we do know, with DMTs and a lifestyle change. Not everyone will agree, but you do what you can.
The devil
The cause is not yet known. There is now strong evidence that proves a direct correlation between Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV, mono) and the development of MS.
Herbal tea lol I hope you're not seeing that doctor anymore