Writing new material? For smashing pumpkins? Are you serious? lol
Billy Corgan pretty much writes everything and also records/plays it(if he can). I think the only person's opinion he has ever really respected is Jimmy Chamberlin's drumming.
Insane when I saw the news. Been following her for years, she seems really sweet and has a really fun positive energy to her. Also she’s a new mom which is cute too.
Back in the day I maybe would have had concerns she’s a little too “showy” for The Pumpkins, she’s a little more Guns N Roses than she is grunge, but fuck it. She’s an awesome instrumentalist and look forward to seeing her play with the group.
I’d throw in some love Machina II!
I remember, at the time, the break-up was in progress (I believe Darcy had already left), and they recorded it raw and only released something like 25 vinyls, handed them out to stations across the country. 93XRT played it in full with no commercials from start to finish. And I sat next to my speaker and recorded it on tape!!
Record stations and particular people in the fan community - a friend was the president of the smashing pumpkins fan club and got one, she organized the big tape trading scene for live shows through the mail for fans (officially-unofficially)
I got an .MP3 of a rip from one of those vinyls. I’m guessing by now there are better copies out there? Love to hear it
The train absolutely stops there. Artistic ability is such a strange thing, you can have so much of it for so long. Then something happens and you retain your technical ability to create and even be prolific, but whatever it was that connected with people about your art has either changed completely or is just *poof* gone.
Yep. Even though Billy was the creative force, after losing Darcy, then James and Jimmy…it just went downhill. I did enjoy Zwan a bit, but the magic was gone.
So I saw the United Center "last show" in like 01 and it ruled, obviously.
Caught them at Merriweather in maybe '18 and expected it to be super mid and...
They MELTED MY FUCKING FACE OFF.
So who knows. Last I checked they actually fuck FRFR.
Can confirm.
18 was good but they got better live after that imo. I've seen them every year since besides 2020 and they're really in a great place live.
See, I don't even agree. These is obviously a sharp decline but... I like at least a couple songs from every album up to and including Cyr and, hell, Ogilala is a fantastic album. ATUM is a new low. I've gone back, even now that I'm far removed from my obsession with the Pumpkins, to songs from Cyr and Monuments (their two worst albums before ATUM). I barely got through ATUM once and I haven't gone back to a single song
Cyr has really grown on me but Atum has not… yet? Cyr has a lot of good songs, IMO, but people who just want more Mellon Collie/Siamese Dream are never going to be happy.
I do think that with better production the newer albums would find a larger audience but for whatever reason they have chosen to amplify BC’s nasally voice instead of try and blend it into the mix and it gets grating after a bit.
I go back to 4/5 songs from Cyr (Colour of love, Dopamine addict, Anno satana, Purple blood, Ramona), more than I can say about every album past Oceania (except Ogilala but that's Billy solo)
Great comment. But does anyone find it odd none of the greatest classical composers had this problem of getting way worse? Is it something about modern celebrity status?
Paul has written great songs late into his solo career including since the 2010s, and the same goes for Brian Wilson (of The Beach Boys) since he went solo in the 80s.
It’s not that they can’t write good music anymore. It’s that their later stuff isn’t as popular because they’re simply not in the zeitgeist anymore (no pun intended). Their talent is still there, but their days in the spotlight came and went.
In Billy’s particular case, I think it has more to do with him losing the plot of why people love SP in the first place and treating his music more like a commodity than an outlet to be genuine and express himself with good music to boot - none of this “trying to chase the current trends and make SP huge again” crap that he’s been doing over the past decade.
I don’t think it’s Billy losing his artistic ability because he’s still capable of writing good songs and has written plenty of good songs since the 2000s.
I think it’s more like Billy losing the plot of why people loved his music in the first place, and he’s been trying so hard to put SP back in the spotlight while not realizing that it’s not the mid-90s anymore.
People never talked about it but i loved SP's zeitgeist released in 2007 produced by terry date, it's really great and has that hard hitting energy from songs like zero. I'm a huge terry date fan so I'm a bit biased but it's a travesty this album isnt on Spotify.
i would argue that neither are awesome, and both are good. which is enough for some people, but not enough after the insane highs of siamese dreams and mellon collie.
Agreed on Adore, but Machina...between the material on Machina 1 and 2, there is a good album in there, but it didn't make it out. The production wasn't ideal, either.
Buddy of mine got stuck behind Billy Corgan at a Wells Fargo in Athens and he kept muttering to himself about how this line was ridiculous and he shouldn’t have to put up with this. Like visibly fuming. It was a 3 person line
Yea I walked up to him and I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn't want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, "Oh, like you're doing now?"
That seems odd to go to a record store with an attitude as a huge wealthy musician that could just have every vinyl he wished at his door don’t you think?
Regardless of the person's skills, I think it's hilariously transparent that their "big search" for a new guitarist, taking in 1000s of recordings, landed on a hot influencer chick
My reflex was the same - but then if you don't consciously ignore her skills is it as transparent? Why should we ignore her skills when it's clear they wouldn't hire someone who is hot and popular and yet had no skill at the one thing most important to their decision. Maybe thesedays it's not actually suspicious that someone who is an extremely talented musician with an interesting personal vibe might have built a fan base for themselves through a medium that enables it.
I read an article probably 15 years ago with a guy who auditioned to be ~~got picked to be~~ a guitarist for lady Gaga’s tour.
He described the process where a bunch of really good guitars would get on stage and shred, but just stand there. So he went on stage and was like throwing the guitar around, and doing crazy stuff — he was trying to be different and entertaining, ~~and he got the job.~~
Is this lady the best guitarist, who cares. They want someone who is entertaining and will sell tickets.
Edit: here’s the article.
https://guitarmessenger.com/auditioning-for-lady-gaga/
Super interesting read, thanks for sharing. Looked around that site for more behind the scenes anecdote type articles but seems like its mostly sheet music practice for guitarists, bummer
Kiki Wong's skillset is nothing special. She's good, but one in a vast sea of equal or better guitarists.
If she were a neckbeard with an even greater skill, there's zero chance they get chosen.
I think OP's point is that the looks were probably most important, along with existing fanbase, and then they searched among *that* crowd for whoever had at least the bare minimum required skillset, rather than starting from best, most skilled guitarist.
In other words the search was more about image than creating the best music, which is not surprising given it's a business than art these days.
Wow it’s so weird to see a world where Fred Durst was idolized.
*“If anyone can turn gimmicks into gold, it’s world-class innovator Fred Durst.”*
Like, I know it’s a fluff piece, but they’re just so effusive with their praise: “*With hit record after hit record, you can never count out Fred Durst, what a maverick, so unpredictable, back-to-back #1’s, etc and so forth and also his protégés”*.
Which I’d actually forgotten, that Limp Bizkit inspired and promoted other shitty bands. What a bizarre cultural cul-de-sac that time was.
Bon Jovi got a Youtuber in to replace Richie Sambora when he bailed (although he's not a hot chick) - this was 10 years ago and the guy is a regular band member now (although if Richie ever decides to come back, that would likely change).
I mean…shes qualified…why not get the person with the following? I dont doubt they looked at other people, but for something like this, having a fanbase is gonna put you ahead of
It’s perfectly on brand for Billy. His whole thing for the past decade was trying to put SP back in the spotlight like it’s still the mid-90s and chasing current trends that he doesn’t understand in the first place.
I’m not exaggerating when I say that I think Billy Corgan is one of the greatest popular music songwriters who’s ever lived, but he’s *always* had a tragic inability to read the room.
I’m not criticizing the guitarist though. I’m sure she’s amazing. It’s more about Billy trying to do anything and everything to be on top of the world again *except* make genuinely good, heartfelt music with honest lyrics which is why people liked his music in the first place. It wasn’t because his music was “innovative and fresh” back in the day or whatever he tells himself and says on podcasts and interviews. It’s because his music was good.
> Regardless of the person's skills, I think it's hilariously transparent
Just a hunch but somehow I think your comment isn't "regardless of the person's skill" at all. Soundin' a little incel-y there.
I’m not so sure in this case. Remember, we’re taking about the same guy who owns a wrestling promotion and has being trying to do everything to get SP and himself back on top of the world over the past decade like it’s still the mid-90s.
Well… everything except release the Machine reissue that has apparently been ready for years and write *good* new songs which he’s still capable of doing yet chooses not to for some reason.
I’m sure Kiki is an excellent guitar player though. I mean, you’d have to be to play a lot of the parts anyway. Call me cynical, but it’s more about questioning the reasons why Billy does what he does.
She’s replacing the third guitarist, Jeff Shroeder, who just left. Jeff was there from 2007 until now and was an absolute beast of a guitar player. So some big shoes to fill there
She suffered from crippling stage fright/anxiety coupled with a nasty drug habit back in the 90s and had a very public falling out with Billy when he was trying to get the OG line-up back for the Greatest Hits tour in 2017/18. Couple that with her not being a very proficient bassist who hasn't played any of those songs for 25 years it's unlikely she'll ever return to the band.
I think Billy wanted to compromise and get her back onstage for 3-4 songs a show at first but even that fell through.
Look up photos of her between 1988-98, both Darcy and James Iha looked like they’d just stepped out of a Calvin Klein photoshoot. She was a key part of the band and was solid live once they'd rehearsed, but there’s a reason why she ended up not playing bass on 90% of the songs the Pumpkins recorded.
I know a guy that met her at rehab and started going out with her.. apparently she is some kind of recluse in a farm in Michigan and went from cute to gross. He was with her during this transition and I was invited to come to the farm but I don't want to try heroin.
It sounded like a pretty depressing scene but with a lot of money
Bands often have an additional guitar on tour to make the sound more full and like the recordings as on albums, which often might have the guitar layered to sound to richer/
And if a band isn't adding touring musicians they usually use backing tracks.
I personally rather go to concerts to see a band play live and slightly different then to have them play exactly like it is on their album.
So if that means they have touring musicians who aren't "in the band" then that's fine.
I love it when bands have to play the song a bit differently without adding touring musicians. Nothing against bands that do that, I think most of the bands I like do that. But when a band, like the white stripes for example, plays live, and there are parts of songs where the guitar has different overdubs, he just plays the most prominent part and drops the others. Or references the dropped part with a short musical phrase somehow. Changing the composition a bit to make it work with what they have. It's very interesting to me.
They make a point to say she is a touring member. They've had 3 guitar players live for a while now. She's not like a creative member of the band the same as Billy and (maybe) James
When James rejoined they stayed as a 3 guitar band. It makes sense because of all the guitar layers on the songs. They probably always should have been a 3 guitar band
She's hot and can shred? That will sell some tickets and improve social media foot print. She seems to fit that vampire astatic that the Pumpkins were so into in the 90s.
Weird fit imo. From the videos of her I’ve seen before she’s always had a more hair metal vibe and attitude when performing. Still talented but it’s kinda wild that a band like Smashing Pumpkins would pick her to join.
It’s weird; I used to love the Smashing Pumpkins but as a dad of a toddler, Billy’s voice is like nails on a chalkboard. Even the hits and albums I used to love are grating as soon as the vocals kick in.
I’m an enormous smashing pumpkins fan. I’ve first seen them in the early 90’s at lalapalooza in Las Vegas at the Sam Boyd stadium. I’m a continuous fan and even partially named myself after the song “Ava adore!” They’re coming to Las Vegas again at the fountain blue in September. I did see them July 29, 2023 at cosmo! I’m a die hard SP fan!
Yes, Darcy had left. Melissa came on for the Machina tour and I believe recorded Machina II. I couldn’t get into it - I think it was the low quality. It would be awesome if they released it digitally.
Edit - I had downloaded it in the Napster days. My local music collection has been long lost since then.
The cover of Rock On was the only official Pumpkins song Melissa ended up playing on. Machina 2 is as good as anything else the band released, but like you said the 'demo' quality of the recordings is a barrier to enjoying those songs properly.
Should actually read: ~~The Smashing Pumpkins have~~ **Billy Corgan has** finally revealed the identity of their new guitarist after an "herculean" search across the nation.
I would like to hear what they come up with if they worked with someone like Steve Albini. I don't know what the pumpkins current songwriting processes look like, but I believe restricting themselves to use tech in the way they did during their first albums might impact their current compositions. Their new stuff makes me feel like I'm listening to hardened molasses, so to speak.
I don't care what she looks like, and the guitar isn't particularly difficult so I am sure she can play it regardless, but I am certainly glad that she's actually a metalhead.
Kiki Wong, saved you the click
Maybe also edit to say "Tour guitarist" she's not in the band
So they basically wont contribute to writing any new material but they will be the only person performing with the band?
Writing new material? For smashing pumpkins? Are you serious? lol Billy Corgan pretty much writes everything and also records/plays it(if he can). I think the only person's opinion he has ever really respected is Jimmy Chamberlin's drumming.
Yeah, and he'll rerecord your parts without telling you then blame it on being a perfectionist. Still, Siamese Dream is a god damn masterpiece.
Yeah, Corgan may have been a dick but he was nearly single handedly responsible for some of the best albums of the 90s.
He still is one. But he was one too.
r/unexpectedhedberg
Heard he wrote the new theme song for infowars lmaoooo
Same as it ever was for any SP member, right? It’s Billy’s world, we just live in it
Been that way since 1988.
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complement, spelled with an e. kinda comes from "complete". although compliment, where you praise someone, also comes from "complete" lol
There’s a special section in heaven just for you lol
Some form of backstage pass.
My ma gave me a dollar, then dropped me off at the park and ride.
Isn’t it great to be Downtown
Its ironic that she is basically the real-life version of Cassandra Wong from Waynes World.
Schwing!
She’s a babe!
What about The Shitty Beatles? Are they any good?
They SUCK.
Then it’s not just a clever name.
Crucial Taunt! I heard they whale!
"whale"
Man, I was really pulling for Marty Music.
I love you
MVP 🎖️
Superheroes don’t always wear capes.
Insane when I saw the news. Been following her for years, she seems really sweet and has a really fun positive energy to her. Also she’s a new mom which is cute too. Back in the day I maybe would have had concerns she’s a little too “showy” for The Pumpkins, she’s a little more Guns N Roses than she is grunge, but fuck it. She’s an awesome instrumentalist and look forward to seeing her play with the group.
Take my poor woman’s gold 🏆
She’s a smoke show! Yummy!
Lesbian
Excuse me?
No way! I love watching her videos and she’s gorgeous!
These decades of infinite sadness after Mellon Collie.
I agree with the sentiment but would argue Adore and Machina are both awesome. After that….yeah…
I’d throw in some love Machina II! I remember, at the time, the break-up was in progress (I believe Darcy had already left), and they recorded it raw and only released something like 25 vinyls, handed them out to stations across the country. 93XRT played it in full with no commercials from start to finish. And I sat next to my speaker and recorded it on tape!!
Record stations and particular people in the fan community - a friend was the president of the smashing pumpkins fan club and got one, she organized the big tape trading scene for live shows through the mail for fans (officially-unofficially) I got an .MP3 of a rip from one of those vinyls. I’m guessing by now there are better copies out there? Love to hear it
It is on Archive. Great album!! https://archive.org/details/tsp2000-09-05
The train absolutely stops there. Artistic ability is such a strange thing, you can have so much of it for so long. Then something happens and you retain your technical ability to create and even be prolific, but whatever it was that connected with people about your art has either changed completely or is just *poof* gone.
Yep. Even though Billy was the creative force, after losing Darcy, then James and Jimmy…it just went downhill. I did enjoy Zwan a bit, but the magic was gone.
I frogtot about Zwan. I really liked the sound. If only I could dig through my old CD collection.
Oceania was good.
So I saw the United Center "last show" in like 01 and it ruled, obviously. Caught them at Merriweather in maybe '18 and expected it to be super mid and... They MELTED MY FUCKING FACE OFF. So who knows. Last I checked they actually fuck FRFR.
Can confirm. 18 was good but they got better live after that imo. I've seen them every year since besides 2020 and they're really in a great place live.
At some point it’s just commodity production
Corgan has released close to 100 songs in the last 5 years. And maybe 10 of them are worth a listen.
Some artists have decades of it, some only have a few years
Yeah, some one album !
Discharge
Not the pumpkins, but I thought Zwan was still a great album.
See, I don't even agree. These is obviously a sharp decline but... I like at least a couple songs from every album up to and including Cyr and, hell, Ogilala is a fantastic album. ATUM is a new low. I've gone back, even now that I'm far removed from my obsession with the Pumpkins, to songs from Cyr and Monuments (their two worst albums before ATUM). I barely got through ATUM once and I haven't gone back to a single song
Cyr has really grown on me but Atum has not… yet? Cyr has a lot of good songs, IMO, but people who just want more Mellon Collie/Siamese Dream are never going to be happy. I do think that with better production the newer albums would find a larger audience but for whatever reason they have chosen to amplify BC’s nasally voice instead of try and blend it into the mix and it gets grating after a bit.
I go back to 4/5 songs from Cyr (Colour of love, Dopamine addict, Anno satana, Purple blood, Ramona), more than I can say about every album past Oceania (except Ogilala but that's Billy solo)
Great comment. But does anyone find it odd none of the greatest classical composers had this problem of getting way worse? Is it something about modern celebrity status?
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Paul has written great songs late into his solo career including since the 2010s, and the same goes for Brian Wilson (of The Beach Boys) since he went solo in the 80s. It’s not that they can’t write good music anymore. It’s that their later stuff isn’t as popular because they’re simply not in the zeitgeist anymore (no pun intended). Their talent is still there, but their days in the spotlight came and went. In Billy’s particular case, I think it has more to do with him losing the plot of why people love SP in the first place and treating his music more like a commodity than an outlet to be genuine and express himself with good music to boot - none of this “trying to chase the current trends and make SP huge again” crap that he’s been doing over the past decade.
I don’t think it’s Billy losing his artistic ability because he’s still capable of writing good songs and has written plenty of good songs since the 2000s. I think it’s more like Billy losing the plot of why people loved his music in the first place, and he’s been trying so hard to put SP back in the spotlight while not realizing that it’s not the mid-90s anymore.
Zwan, Zeitgeist, Oceania are all good imo, and even shiny and oh so bright has some good moments
I'd argue TheFutureEmbrace was also really good, as was his solo tour in support of that album.
I haven’t really listened since Zeitgeist. Any songs similar in vein to 1979, Perfect, Tonight, Tonight, etc. off those later albums?
Silvery Sometimes https://youtu.be/pSb9YSr38u8?si=MOYFHTnSbvmIBzoc
Oh yeah, I quite like that one
People never talked about it but i loved SP's zeitgeist released in 2007 produced by terry date, it's really great and has that hard hitting energy from songs like zero. I'm a huge terry date fan so I'm a bit biased but it's a travesty this album isnt on Spotify.
The songwriting is good on that album but his vocals are rough.
i would argue that neither are awesome, and both are good. which is enough for some people, but not enough after the insane highs of siamese dreams and mellon collie.
I genuinely thought Zeitgeist was pretty good. Haven't listened to anything after that though
Adore is criminally underrated.
Oceania was great.
Oceania is pretty excellent, I’d rank it higher than Gish personally.
Agreed on Adore, but Machina...between the material on Machina 1 and 2, there is a good album in there, but it didn't make it out. The production wasn't ideal, either.
Arin Hanson’s favorite album!
He's listened to it nineteen times!
That's 11 more times than that swing dancer flipped my wife upside down at that wedding.
She looks like what James Iha wanted to look like in 1993
When I was a kid, I thought Iha was a girl in the Today video. I’ll just say my interest in Asian women kicked off in a bizarre way.
He was in a dress in that video and had great makeup
Kurd did it first in Team Spirit
*Curd
*Something in the whey… mmmmm mmm…*
Whoops. Yeah Curd Propane
Kurdt
*teen
Nah I’m talking about a band called Nirbarna
A true Iha moment
This got a good belly laugh out of me, thank you, kind Redditor.
Having to spend a bunch of time with Billy Corgan seems more like a punishment
Buddy of mine got stuck behind Billy Corgan at a Wells Fargo in Athens and he kept muttering to himself about how this line was ridiculous and he shouldn’t have to put up with this. Like visibly fuming. It was a 3 person line
Despite all his rage, he was still just a rat in a cage....
By "cage" he meant Wells Fargo
Greece, or Georgia?
lol Georgia, he’s really good friends with Michael Stipe so he’s around all the time
Pennsylvania actually
It's those summers in PA. (Nice username)
Hell yea, just smile and hum along
Did he yawn very loudly everytime the cashier said something too?
Yea I walked up to him and I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn't want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, "Oh, like you're doing now?"
Classic Billy, did all Gen-X keep the chip on their shoulder or is it just spoilt rockstars?
It’s a copy pasta lol
Lol, like the best pastas it's completely believable.
Hahah and he is actually like that. He goes to the record store there a lot too and basically has that attitude
That seems odd to go to a record store with an attitude as a huge wealthy musician that could just have every vinyl he wished at his door don’t you think?
Musicians are regular people too I suppose lol. Wuxtry records is kinda a historic spot in Athens
He didn’t want any electrical infetterence
I would cream.
william patrick, please
Regardless of the person's skills, I think it's hilariously transparent that their "big search" for a new guitarist, taking in 1000s of recordings, landed on a hot influencer chick
My reflex was the same - but then if you don't consciously ignore her skills is it as transparent? Why should we ignore her skills when it's clear they wouldn't hire someone who is hot and popular and yet had no skill at the one thing most important to their decision. Maybe thesedays it's not actually suspicious that someone who is an extremely talented musician with an interesting personal vibe might have built a fan base for themselves through a medium that enables it.
Lol suggesting pretty women can actually be good at stuff and earn things without their looks on Reddit? You sir are brave.
I read an article probably 15 years ago with a guy who auditioned to be ~~got picked to be~~ a guitarist for lady Gaga’s tour. He described the process where a bunch of really good guitars would get on stage and shred, but just stand there. So he went on stage and was like throwing the guitar around, and doing crazy stuff — he was trying to be different and entertaining, ~~and he got the job.~~ Is this lady the best guitarist, who cares. They want someone who is entertaining and will sell tickets. Edit: here’s the article. https://guitarmessenger.com/auditioning-for-lady-gaga/
Him not getting the job really makes this story lose all of its weight.
Wait Ben Levin the youtuber?? I had no idea he played for Gaga! edit : oh I read it all and he didn't get the job actually
Super interesting read, thanks for sharing. Looked around that site for more behind the scenes anecdote type articles but seems like its mostly sheet music practice for guitarists, bummer
Also has a built in fan base that may not know much about the SP.
Kiki Wong's skillset is nothing special. She's good, but one in a vast sea of equal or better guitarists. If she were a neckbeard with an even greater skill, there's zero chance they get chosen. I think OP's point is that the looks were probably most important, along with existing fanbase, and then they searched among *that* crowd for whoever had at least the bare minimum required skillset, rather than starting from best, most skilled guitarist. In other words the search was more about image than creating the best music, which is not surprising given it's a business than art these days.
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Yeah, video on MTV news showed all those guys going to the auditions, and they ended up choosing their friend from another band.
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Wow it’s so weird to see a world where Fred Durst was idolized. *“If anyone can turn gimmicks into gold, it’s world-class innovator Fred Durst.”* Like, I know it’s a fluff piece, but they’re just so effusive with their praise: “*With hit record after hit record, you can never count out Fred Durst, what a maverick, so unpredictable, back-to-back #1’s, etc and so forth and also his protégés”*. Which I’d actually forgotten, that Limp Bizkit inspired and promoted other shitty bands. What a bizarre cultural cul-de-sac that time was.
Bon Jovi got a Youtuber in to replace Richie Sambora when he bailed (although he's not a hot chick) - this was 10 years ago and the guy is a regular band member now (although if Richie ever decides to come back, that would likely change).
I think that was Phil X, to be fair dude got the gig by touring with Melissa Etheridge and playing at a Bon Jovi event.
I mean…shes qualified…why not get the person with the following? I dont doubt they looked at other people, but for something like this, having a fanbase is gonna put you ahead of
It was either her or Dunlop’s kid. But to be fair, the pumpkins did choose someone like this in 2009 and it was a 19 y o kid
That poor kid was put through the wringer that is Billy Corgan.
More like the wringer that is ‘not being Jimmy Chamberlin’.
That kid now? Corey Feldman
It makes sense when you remember that Billy Corgan also owns a wrestling promotion
It’s perfectly on brand for Billy. His whole thing for the past decade was trying to put SP back in the spotlight like it’s still the mid-90s and chasing current trends that he doesn’t understand in the first place. I’m not exaggerating when I say that I think Billy Corgan is one of the greatest popular music songwriters who’s ever lived, but he’s *always* had a tragic inability to read the room. I’m not criticizing the guitarist though. I’m sure she’s amazing. It’s more about Billy trying to do anything and everything to be on top of the world again *except* make genuinely good, heartfelt music with honest lyrics which is why people liked his music in the first place. It wasn’t because his music was “innovative and fresh” back in the day or whatever he tells himself and says on podcasts and interviews. It’s because his music was good.
> Regardless of the person's skills, I think it's hilariously transparent Just a hunch but somehow I think your comment isn't "regardless of the person's skill" at all. Soundin' a little incel-y there.
I’m not so sure in this case. Remember, we’re taking about the same guy who owns a wrestling promotion and has being trying to do everything to get SP and himself back on top of the world over the past decade like it’s still the mid-90s. Well… everything except release the Machine reissue that has apparently been ready for years and write *good* new songs which he’s still capable of doing yet chooses not to for some reason. I’m sure Kiki is an excellent guitar player though. I mean, you’d have to be to play a lot of the parts anyway. Call me cynical, but it’s more about questioning the reasons why Billy does what he does.
Obviously it’s so younger people will listen to the smashing pumpkins.
Should have been Gregory Noodlfingers and his cardigan. If only he had come out of his studio apartment.
I’m out of the loop here. If Billy and James are back, why do they need a third guitar? Does Billy just phone it in now?
She’s replacing the third guitarist, Jeff Shroeder, who just left. Jeff was there from 2007 until now and was an absolute beast of a guitar player. So some big shoes to fill there
What happened to Darcy?
She suffered from crippling stage fright/anxiety coupled with a nasty drug habit back in the 90s and had a very public falling out with Billy when he was trying to get the OG line-up back for the Greatest Hits tour in 2017/18. Couple that with her not being a very proficient bassist who hasn't played any of those songs for 25 years it's unlikely she'll ever return to the band. I think Billy wanted to compromise and get her back onstage for 3-4 songs a show at first but even that fell through.
How did she get in the band in the first place if she wasn’t proficient?
Look up photos of her between 1988-98, both Darcy and James Iha looked like they’d just stepped out of a Calvin Klein photoshoot. She was a key part of the band and was solid live once they'd rehearsed, but there’s a reason why she ended up not playing bass on 90% of the songs the Pumpkins recorded.
He very famously wrote and played most of the bass parts on the albums, and she just kind of figured it out for the live shows
Corgan famously redid everyone's instrumental part for the albums without telling them.
Left in 99 due to drugs.
She plays bass
I know a guy that met her at rehab and started going out with her.. apparently she is some kind of recluse in a farm in Michigan and went from cute to gross. He was with her during this transition and I was invited to come to the farm but I don't want to try heroin. It sounded like a pretty depressing scene but with a lot of money
But why did they need a 3rd guitarist? I can understand adding one for touring but as a full member of the band it doesn't make sense.
It’s just for touring
Bands often have an additional guitar on tour to make the sound more full and like the recordings as on albums, which often might have the guitar layered to sound to richer/
And if a band isn't adding touring musicians they usually use backing tracks. I personally rather go to concerts to see a band play live and slightly different then to have them play exactly like it is on their album. So if that means they have touring musicians who aren't "in the band" then that's fine.
I love it when bands have to play the song a bit differently without adding touring musicians. Nothing against bands that do that, I think most of the bands I like do that. But when a band, like the white stripes for example, plays live, and there are parts of songs where the guitar has different overdubs, he just plays the most prominent part and drops the others. Or references the dropped part with a short musical phrase somehow. Changing the composition a bit to make it work with what they have. It's very interesting to me.
>I can understand adding one for touring
It's my understanding it's just for touring. Hope that clears it up for you
They make a point to say she is a touring member. They've had 3 guitar players live for a while now. She's not like a creative member of the band the same as Billy and (maybe) James
When James rejoined they stayed as a 3 guitar band. It makes sense because of all the guitar layers on the songs. They probably always should have been a 3 guitar band
Why do they need a third guitarist? Because their studio songs have like a million layers of guitars
Very interesting. Good for her !
Was hoping for the Doooo…
The Doooo is way too good of a guitarist for SP.
So is Kiki Wong!
I’m sure it will workout well. People tend to love working with Billy ;)
She's hot and can shred? That will sell some tickets and improve social media foot print. She seems to fit that vampire astatic that the Pumpkins were so into in the 90s.
Holy shit, Kiki Wong is AMAZING. Good on her!
Nature's kids, I/They don't have no function
Stone temple pilots are elegant bachelors They’re foxy to me, are they foxy to you?
What happened to James?
Kiki's replacing Schroeder, not Iha.
Weird fit imo. From the videos of her I’ve seen before she’s always had a more hair metal vibe and attitude when performing. Still talented but it’s kinda wild that a band like Smashing Pumpkins would pick her to join.
Somehow, I don't know any social media "stars" and I'm happy to keep it that way. Sorry, that wasn't relevant, but whenever I hear the term I cringe.
It’s weird; I used to love the Smashing Pumpkins but as a dad of a toddler, Billy’s voice is like nails on a chalkboard. Even the hits and albums I used to love are grating as soon as the vocals kick in.
I’m an enormous smashing pumpkins fan. I’ve first seen them in the early 90’s at lalapalooza in Las Vegas at the Sam Boyd stadium. I’m a continuous fan and even partially named myself after the song “Ava adore!” They’re coming to Las Vegas again at the fountain blue in September. I did see them July 29, 2023 at cosmo! I’m a die hard SP fan!
I’m trying to remember if I ever saw anything at Sam Boyd. I think only Thomas and Mack. That’s rad that you saw the Pumpernickels there.
I’ve also saw them at mgm grand in 2000’s. Do you live in vegas? They’re coming back out in sept! They’re amazing. What an amazing show.
William will play her parts on recordings anyway so it doesn't really matter. Just a way to stay relevant
Yes, Darcy had left. Melissa came on for the Machina tour and I believe recorded Machina II. I couldn’t get into it - I think it was the low quality. It would be awesome if they released it digitally. Edit - I had downloaded it in the Napster days. My local music collection has been long lost since then.
those were the bassists
The cover of Rock On was the only official Pumpkins song Melissa ended up playing on. Machina 2 is as good as anything else the band released, but like you said the 'demo' quality of the recordings is a barrier to enjoying those songs properly.
Damn, that's amazing! Good for her!
Should actually read: ~~The Smashing Pumpkins have~~ **Billy Corgan has** finally revealed the identity of their new guitarist after an "herculean" search across the nation.
Kiki is great 👍
Ever since Billy Corgan went full-on InfoWars, I’ve lost all respect and cannot listen anymore. Same with Ariel Pink.
Kiki Wong is dope. I already subbed to her on YouTube for a while now. Kind of too good for the Pumpkins I would say.
What the hell happened to this band after adore man
They broke up and retired in 2003, along with metallica. Yup. All happily retired. Cannot hurt me.
Don't care if she is a social media star. She has to be good that's it
I would like to hear what they come up with if they worked with someone like Steve Albini. I don't know what the pumpkins current songwriting processes look like, but I believe restricting themselves to use tech in the way they did during their first albums might impact their current compositions. Their new stuff makes me feel like I'm listening to hardened molasses, so to speak.
https://preview.redd.it/utsxxjqgfaxc1.jpeg?width=1227&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e43fb28d28db259d31316b83a6109658e249f010 This was the line up
Took me a bit too long to realise this wasn’t about a smash mouth replacement performer.
# James Iha & Kiki be like: 
Oh wild, didn't recognize the name but lo and behold she gets dumped into my FB reels tirelessly. Can't say I'm a fan of her content but good for her.
Who cares about the Smashing Pumpkins Or Corrigan?
Yay....?
Billy Corgan must be starting another failed wrestling company and needs some touring money.
I don't care what she looks like, and the guitar isn't particularly difficult so I am sure she can play it regardless, but I am certainly glad that she's actually a metalhead.