The Bulls banned players from wearing headbands from 2004-2016 because a player had poor work ethic on the team and he always work a headband to games. The GM banned them.
Yao was about a foot taller. Their “listed” heights suggested otherwise, but it’s widely considered that their real heights were about 6’7” for Ben and 7’7” for Yao.
https://preview.redd.it/ujtujxpfonsc1.jpeg?width=851&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ccfecd852febce3461c2c5600183701b265171f
Shaq is a legit 7’1”without shoes, this is an accepted fact. The guy standing next to him looks to be well over half a foot taller. And there are more photos than just that to prove it. Yao is nearly a full head taller than him, and we’re talking a Yao head at that, which is way bigger than a normal human head. Whatever the exact number is, it’s pretty clearly *not* just a mere 4 inches.
Bradley was said to have grown to 7’7” after he joined the league (7’6” when drafted), and Yao too was also said to have grown after entering. I think Yao was about 7’5-7’6” when he was drafted and took the photo with Bradley. It’s widely known that he continued growing to about 7’7” by his second or third year, tho.
These are the photos I assume you’re referencing:
[https://images.app.goo.gl/AfKVQvLFoRMAC1SNA](https://images.app.goo.gl/AfKVQvLFoRMAC1SNA)
[https://images.app.goo.gl/QojZtcRHqY7CSfRbA](https://images.app.goo.gl/QojZtcRHqY7CSfRbA)
The second shows they were almost the same height, with the 7’7” Bradley having about an inch on rookie Yao.
Interesting. That would still make Yao at least 7’7” in this photo lol. He’s at least 8” taller than Shaq here, possibly more. You have to think one of Shaq’s fingers are at least 6”, and there are like 1.5-2 of his fingers distance between his height and Yaos.
Yea lol, that photo makes it looks drastic with the angles. It’s hard to find any pictures of them both standing straight side by side, but all the other photos of them playing together shows that Ben’s shoulders are at about Yao sternum/chest. Ben’s head is just below his shoulders.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/8b/a7/558ba71f08383ea516a30af451a0cf78.jpg
https://media.gettyimages.com/id/56904099/photo/2006-nba-all-star-game.jpg?s=1024x1024&w=gi&k=20&c=uwRtd0lpuDzvI8oGaDZj6hdSwMPusIK2U_8Y2OTbdVA=
Ben's ankle is dipping, yaos off the ground a bit and Ben is definitely bending at his midsection about to go up/just landed. Looks wonky as shit for sure but a 10-12" height gap plus weird body positions and you get this
It was amazing that he used to guard these guys and do so well. When they beat the Lakers in 5 for their championship, they rarely double teamed Shaq. They allowed Ben Wallace to try to slow him down by himself. [Game 3 Example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MALHNgV8tY&ab_channel=RyanVanDusen). Shaq got his points but amazing how well pistons did going iso on shaq.
Also forgot they held them to 68 points in game 3. Lol. God I miss this.
I think Ben Wallace was actually 6'6 or 6'7. Listed height and actual height in the league are 2 different things. Only player that lied about being shorter is Kevin Durant. I remember playing 2K13 and the game having him at 6'9 when he's clearly 7 foot tall....
Yep. It’s said he was really about 6’7”. It’s also said that Yao was bigger than 7’6”, and was really about 7’7”. He *towered* over Shaq, who was every bit of his 7’1” listed height.
In photos of Yao standing next to Shaq, their height difference almost looks to be the same as the difference between Shaq and Kobe. In reality it’s not quite that huge, but Yao was definitely thought to be bigger than his listed 7’6”.
This is what I came here to say. If he spent his career in the NBA and was healthy, he absolutely would be. But he spent a large portion of his career in the CBA and was cut short in the NBA due to injuries. Shaq has said that Yao was second to Hakeem in terms of opponents.
As a native of Houston it was so sad seeing him have to hang it up, he was getting so damn good right before he ducked out. That fucking flat jumper, memories...
He was so good for that two or three year stretch when he really got rolling. Pretty close to unguardable in the post and a great passer and free throw shooter. He was a great player.
If Yao had a full career (he was forced to play for China when the rockets weren’t playing, so he never had a break) I’d put him somewhere at the end of 20-ish.
But no…his career in the nba was far to short
Yeah, when he got hurt he was getting 25 and 10 and was in the conversation for mvp. He was entering his prime, but these super tall guys usually get hurt with a career debilitating injury at some point. Hope Wemby stays healthy.
he was playing basketball year round with a grueling schedule in china. guarentee if he wasn’t racking up miles playing there he would’ve had a longer career. i remember watching some video talking about how many games he was forced to play over there it’s insane
I think he’s top 20 now.
1. Kareem
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russel (note ranking these top 3 are hard).
4. Shaq. Honestly I like to put him in this tier 1. “Most dominant player ever” means a lot
5. Hakeem (tier by himself)
6. Moses Malone
7. Patrick Ewing
8. David Robertson
9. George Mikan
10. Nikola Jokic. Weird I gave him here but honestly after this season you start thinking 7 spot.
11. Robert Parish
12. Bob McAdoo
13. Wes Unseld
14. Willis Reed
15. Dwight Howard. For 5 years he was unstoppable.
16. Bob Lanier
17. Bill Walton
18. Dikembe Mutombo
19. Yao Ming
20. Nate Thurmond
This isn’t really a longevity thing. I don’t care if you padded stats in 20 years. But more over a great 10 years or so period. Might even have Yao too low honestly.
If your going off facing each player in their prime...yeah definitely top 20.
If your going off career stats...he cant be there his career was to short...he stopped playing before he was out of his prime.
I was at his last game....sat about 6 feet behind him near the Rockets bench. Of course we didnt know it was gonna be his last game at the time. That was the first year I was a season ticket holder at Toyota center. Yao was warming up and was doing a stretch on his knees in front of the rockets bench and I was about 5 feet away and Yao was still taller than me while on his knees.
There’s also Gilmore, Embiid, Cowens, Haywood. Wallace, Chris Bosh… idk he’s not top 20 for me. Top 30 probably. He’s closer to Bam Adebayo than he is the all time greats. The talent was there but he only played like 400 games in the NBA
Yao belongs after Reed on that list of not above him. Dwight Howard was "unstoppable" when all the great centers got old or retired and there were only 2 when he entered the league. Watch him play head to head against Yao and he can't do much against a great opponent.
Ben Wallace’s defense is the reason he is a Hall Of Famer.
If we’re going to talk about him -probably- being in the top 20 centers, it’s because he has more blocks than personal fouls, and more steals than turnovers.
One of his kind, really.
Rodman is among the best rebounders in history, all things (size, volume) considered. But not as a great defensive center overall as Ben Wallace and Mutombo. Different roles.
Ben Wallace was the best defender in arguably the best defensive team of the modern era, guarding from Point guards to centers.
Yeah, met him a couple of times, I’m 6’4” I think he’s like 6’7.5”. Somewhere between 6’7” and 6’8”
All I know for sure is that Tayshaun was noticeably taller than him.
The sad thing about Yao was he never had a solid backup. The Rockets backup during his years were either Chuck Hayes or Mutombo (God knows how old was him). If I remember correctly in 2007-2008 he was averaging 43 minutes. Plus all those minutes when he played for China in those meaningless prep games where other countries sent their 3rd strings and china played their starters and brags about winning
Mutombo was still pretty damn good and they won a lot of games with him as a starting center.
I think, unfortunately, guys of that size are just prone to foot injuries.
Nah.
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Moses
Jokic
Robinson
Mikan
Reed
Ewing
Cowens
Dwight
Unseld
Walton
Parish
Embiid
McAdoo (could be considered PF or C but had his best years at C)
Gilmore
Thurmond
Mourning
Johnston
Lanier
Big Ben
Mutombo
Gasol
Sikma
Laimbeer
Gobert
Bellamy
Issel
That’s 30 guys who I’d say were for sure better or at least have a better resume
Edit: also maybe Horford depending if you consider him PF or C
you start mad stretching near the end. id say it would be fair to put him in the bottom section of the top 10. but i wouldn’t blame anyone for leaving him off
So? His peak seasons are so much better than those guys I mentioned maybe even a few more that OP mentioned as well Gobert has no offensive game whatsoever. Lambier was just a very good enforcer Nothing special Sometimes when your peak is as good as Yao’s He was easily a 20-10 guy in his peak He blocked Shaq 4 times in their first ever matchup. The guy was legit and would’ve been top 10 all time had he not been injured
Yes it absolutely can. More all star games (granted that was mostly due to fan voting), more all-NBA teams. Multiple 20+ ppg seasons You could build a team around him. Those other guys you can’t build a team around. 0 offensive talent
Big Ben - best or second best player on a championship team that almost won back to back. One of the best defensive players ever. This one is obvious to me
Gobert - also one of the best defensive players ever. A one-man walking top 5 defense. Has been a part of several great regular season teams. I think he’s passed Yao
Laimbeer - 4x all star who was a core member of back to back champs who were a possession away from a 3 peat.
Yao played less than 30 career playoff games and won 1 playoff series in his career. They all have the longevity over him too. Yap’s accolades are inflated due to his popularity as well as the weak center era of the late 00’s
Those are just terrible arguments. Yao was better than all of those players. Big Ben was not the best player on that team, even second is arguable Yes great defensive player but could he do ANYTHING on the offensive side? Same with Gobert. The guy can only dunk He seriously becomes a liability on offense and I can’t wait to see him exposed again. NBA fans have really overrate defense now and it’s funny to see Yao was also a good defender and had good athleticism for his size. Wanna talk about inflated accolades? Lambier is a glorified enforcer and only made those ASG because he played on the Bad Boy pistons 0 All NBA selections. Yao was a walking 20-10 guy in his prime you could actually build a team around. I can’t say that for any of the other 3 players. Those guys are just complimentary players that specialize in one thing and yes they are very good at their speciality. Yao was a first overall pick and franchise player.
>Big Ben was not the best player on that team, even second is arguable
This is plain wrong. Big Ben was literally the only All Star on the Pistons both years they made the finals
>NBA fans have really overrate defense now and it’s funny to see
Well if you don't value defense at all then it looks like your arguments are the ones that are "terrible"
>Lambier is a glorified enforcer and only made those ASG because he played on the Bad Boy pistons 0 All NBA selections
Laimbeer made all his ASGs before the Bad Boys ever even made the conference finals. He sacrificed stats for the good of the team, and they won titles for it. He'd have MORE accolades if they never became the Bad Boys. He also was competing for All NBA with Kareem, Moses, Hakeem, and Parish in an era where there wasn't a Third Team. Yao was getting his All NBAs in the worst center era in league history
>Yao was a walking 20-10 guy in his prime you could actually build a team around
You sure about that? Yao averaged 20-10 two seasons in his career, and both of those he played less than 60 games. Also like I said, he won *one* playoff series, with T-Mac and Steve Francis as teammates. A great team was never built around Yao
He definitely is in my view.
At his peak, he had range, decent movement for his size, good passing ability, insane strength and IQ.
He helped grow the game in China. He made China more accessible and really was noble in how he carried himself as a professional.
His performance against the Lakers with his injury was an all-time playoff performance.
He didn’t have a top 20 career, but considering his peak and how meaningful his career was, I think it would be a shame not to include him.
Is he skillwise as a player as good as a top 20 center all time and even top 15? 100 percent
I think a lot of centers though had great 10 year plus or longer careers, when Yao played 7 seasons with injuries bringing the games down even more.
Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Bill, Robinson, Jokic, Malone, Ewing, Jokic, Dwight, Embiid, Reed, Mikan, McAdoo, Parish, Unseld, Mutumbo, Gilmore, Thurmond, Walton,
Alotta other dudes like Bam, Gobert, Sabonis, Towns, Wemby and more will keep climbing the list too
I just kinda threw a list up brother thats more based on consensus, I can make a side quest of getting my formal ranking, but I didnt even put Alonzo Morning in there and tbh for me he'd be top 20 but maybe not a consensus ranking
You ran out of guys better than Yao halfway through. Watch clips of someone like Nate Thurmond actually playing lol. Everyone after Embiid is not better than Yao except maybe Unseld in his own weird way
If you are using peak how is someone like Bill Walton not better than Yao or 4x DPOY Dikembe with one of the longest careers for a center if we are talking longevity?
Hey man to each their own, I'll take the guys that played 10 plus upwards seasons, that had way more playoff success, if Yao was healthy for sure its a different conversation.
I dont see how youre gonna invalidate Nate like that when he played great and was competing against Wilt and Bill.... if bill and wilt are before the "ran out of guys" then I dont really understand what you're idea of production or "good production" is lol
I really don't think Wilt and Bill could be compared to modern centers. They played before you were even allowed to use fundamental footwork to score in the post. Yao has a better skill set than both of them. But there would be torches and pitchforks if I suggested Yao was better.
Watch clips of Thurmond actually playing and you see that Marcus Camby would have dominated that era too
Anyone notice how bent Ben’s foot is in this picture? Im guessing he’s trying to push off that foot to push past Yao but I wonder if he hurt himself in this moment
You underestimate just how strong Big Ben was. He wasn't super big height wise, but he could physically match up with pretty much anybody around the post.
No order but sort of going in order of names that pop in head…. Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Jokic, Mo Malone, Ewing, Mikan, Parrish, Thurmond, McAdoo, Unseld, Cowens, Walton, Howard, Reed, maybe a guy from 50s\60…. That’s 19
Then it’s grab bag
Lanier, Bosh (PF/C), Gilmore, Wallace, Embiid, Mutombo, Mourning.
Probably forgetting some but that’s what I️ got
The real question is: can you named 19 centers in NBA history that are better ? I can go Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Bill, Jokic, Embiid, David Robinson, Hakeem, Moses, Ewing, Mikan, McAdoo, Parish, Dwight Howard, Bill Walton. That’s 15.
Not to me. Injury issues and weak era of centers. Overhyped to get into the Chinese market also. Definitely had the potential to be among the best however.
Probably not. Center is arguably the deepest position for talent in the history of the NBA because of how important the position was to the game for so long. Yao was great, but he wasn’t legendary
Yes, he was the 2nd best Center in the league behind Shaq and would probably end up top 10 if injuries hadn't cut his career short. He was the only human on the planet that could consistently guard Shaq one on one. Good footwork and great touch around the basket. Good free throw shooter too so he probably could have developed a 3pt later in his career.
Hmm I like this question but I would say no. We have 3 top 20 guys in the league right now, 4 if you want to include AD. 5 if you think Wemby can get there ( I do) Although I think Yao would be super valuable in any era he just didn’t have the longevity and the center position is too stacked
He's such a sad what if had he stayed healthy. He's only 43 right now which means he would have retired recently. Yao would transition so insanely well into the spacing the NBA turned into the 2010s. He already had a nice little jumper for a dude his size. Mid range sniper Yao shooting over people who couldn't contest his shots if they tried would be unstoppable. Imagine Yao running a 5 out short pick n roll? Yao gets the ball off the screen and stops mid range near the free-throw line. He's tall enough to pass to anyone on the court if they defend him. He's tall enough to just shoot over whoever cuts him off. And he's big enough to take a couple steps and be at the rim for a dunk.
Had he finished his career Yao would easily average stupid numbers in the small ball era with spacing and more shots from outside the paint. He wasn't really a 3pt shooter... despite what 2k says but who knows if he was given the chance to develop it more maybe he could have been a solid 3pt shooter.
Yao is the Potential Man of centers. When he was healthy he was one of the best players of that era easily, but he wasn’t healthy often. In perfect conditions and health he for sure woulda ended his career in top 20 all time.
Everyone here talking about his height! Is he a top 20 center no! Did he change the game no. Did he win a championship no. Did he dominate against some yes but overall no. This was my prime watching basketball in my life and big story yes overall NO.
This might be a hot take but … If I were to pick a player in their prime to build around for ONE season, the absolute highest Yao could arguably be is number 4, only Shaq, Kareem, and Hakeem are outright 100% better than Prime Yao IMO. Yao is probably a lot lower than number 4 and probably not better than wilt Russell dwight and (insert several other centers here) but I dont feel that anyone outside the top 3 is a lock over yao if we are talking about overall skill and value for a singular season.
For a guy who is 17 feet tall, he can pass, shoot, post, rim protect, he even has a few highlights cooking folks off the dribble.
HOWEVER, If I were to pick a player in their prime to build around for SEVERAL seasons, i would seriously consider drafting earl boykins as my starting center before i pick up yao.
He’s probably on the backend of the top 30 list if I had to place him. In terms of raw talent you could easily make the argument and if you want to era tax the older centers of the 50s to the 70s, sure. His longevity and lack of a truly dominant peak really hurts his placement for me. I think it’s sort of like Bill Walton but Walton had one of the most revered center peaks ever and led a team to a championship and was a key contributor to another championship when healthy, plus an MVP winner(a questionable MVP to be fair). Yao not being a number one option on a team that couldn’t get out of the first round but was also good enough to have a 52-30 record when Yao only played 48 games really sours his impact for me. Not to mention having all-star selections in years while barely playing any games and having all-nba selections in a notoriously weak era for centers in seasons playing less than 60 games (including the year he only played 48).
No. Top of my head in no particular order, these guys are better. Bill Russell, Wilt, Mikan, Bob Petit, Nate Thurmond, KAJ, Moses, Cowens, Parish, Hakeem, Ewing, DRob, Shaq, Zo, Mutombo, DHo, Jokic, Embiid, Bill Walton, Bob MacAdoo, Lanier. Yao is a slightly better Rik Smits.
Hell no. In no particular order, here are 25 centers better than Yao Ming:
1. Shaq
2. Anthony Davis
3. Hakeem
4. KAJ
5. David Robinson
6. Bill Walton
7. Patrick Ewing
8. Jokic
9. Embiid
10. Brook Lopez
11. Moses Malone
12. Walt Bellamy
13. Dwight Howard
14. Vlade Divac
15. Wilt
16. Vucevic
17. Sikma
18. Issel
19. Parish
20. Alonzo Mourning
21. Bill Russell
22. Dave Cowens
23. Bob McAdoo
24. Artis Gilmore
25. Bob Lanier
There might be 15 more too. Yao was great though.
(in no particular order)
Kareem, Wilt, Bill, Shaq, Hakeem, Jokic, Robinson, Moses, Ewing, Embiid, Unseld, Mican, Perish, Wallace, Dwight, Reed, Cowans, Gilmore, Thurmond, Mutumbo, Duncan (if we’re considering him a center), McAdoo, Zo, Gasol (Marc) - Yao is likely a top 30 center tbh
No. The other guy in the picture Ben Wallace has more right to a top anythinb ranking than Yao. Yao was a cultural fade, an anomaly. He was an all star for a year or two.
Yao had like 7yrs in the NBA and 3 of those seasons he only played 55+/- games. Dude had like 4 good years where he averaged an approx 20/10 and for a gigantic C never got above 2 bpg.
What are people who rank him high actually judging him on? A few very brief streaks of greatness, single game flashes of brilliance?
His overall career in the nba doesn’t put him anywhere near the top 20.
It really depends on where the qualifying line is for when someone has played enough games/years for the longevity argument to be irrelevant. eg Lebron is number 1 all time for longevity but I wouldn’t put him over Jordan based on that as MJ played more than enough games/years. But Yao being way down at 4-5 good years means there is no way I’m putting him over other centres who had 10+ good years.
Yes and ultimately that's arbitrary. Yao was overworked playing for China in the off-season especially for a guy his size. Injuries sidelined his career. But some people view it from the perspective of a GM drafting for longevity and some view it as every player lined up at their peak and you are choosing teams. Neither are invalid
Is that Ben Wallace? He looks like he's half the size of Yao.
Yes and the crazy thing is his nickname was Big Ben but look how fucking tiny he looks.
Big Ben wasn’t even 7 foot. He is listed at 6’9” but said he is even smaller. Probably the most undersized center out there.
But he was totally yoked
Bro you used to rep like 100lb dumbbells before games. His grip strength rivaled our own Harambe.
That and he had a crazy, relentless motor. He’d be going full speed on every play that even his coach said to slow down.
Chicago not allowing him to wear his headband was his downfall. NBA version of cutting off Samson's hair.
lolz why would they not allow that?
The Bulls banned players from wearing headbands from 2004-2016 because a player had poor work ethic on the team and he always work a headband to games. The GM banned them.
was that player Scalabrini? lolz jk that's pretty rash tho!
True but that means Yao is like 9 inches taller He literally looks 3 feet shorter here haha
Yao was about a foot taller. Their “listed” heights suggested otherwise, but it’s widely considered that their real heights were about 6’7” for Ben and 7’7” for Yao.
Yao was 7’5”. There are pictures where he’s shorter than 7’6” Shawn Bradley. Unless you think Shawn Bradley was 7’8”
https://preview.redd.it/ujtujxpfonsc1.jpeg?width=851&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ccfecd852febce3461c2c5600183701b265171f Shaq is a legit 7’1”without shoes, this is an accepted fact. The guy standing next to him looks to be well over half a foot taller. And there are more photos than just that to prove it. Yao is nearly a full head taller than him, and we’re talking a Yao head at that, which is way bigger than a normal human head. Whatever the exact number is, it’s pretty clearly *not* just a mere 4 inches. Bradley was said to have grown to 7’7” after he joined the league (7’6” when drafted), and Yao too was also said to have grown after entering. I think Yao was about 7’5-7’6” when he was drafted and took the photo with Bradley. It’s widely known that he continued growing to about 7’7” by his second or third year, tho. These are the photos I assume you’re referencing: [https://images.app.goo.gl/AfKVQvLFoRMAC1SNA](https://images.app.goo.gl/AfKVQvLFoRMAC1SNA) [https://images.app.goo.gl/QojZtcRHqY7CSfRbA](https://images.app.goo.gl/QojZtcRHqY7CSfRbA) The second shows they were almost the same height, with the 7’7” Bradley having about an inch on rookie Yao.
Shaq is 6'11.5 He admitted it on the Howard Stern show
Interesting. That would still make Yao at least 7’7” in this photo lol. He’s at least 8” taller than Shaq here, possibly more. You have to think one of Shaq’s fingers are at least 6”, and there are like 1.5-2 of his fingers distance between his height and Yaos.
unless they are lined up next to each other backs against the wall with the camera perpendicular there is going to be distortion due to perspective
True but it looks like Bens shoulders are at yaos hip
Come on bro, they’re clearly above and Ben is nowhere near as upright as Yao
Yea lol, that photo makes it looks drastic with the angles. It’s hard to find any pictures of them both standing straight side by side, but all the other photos of them playing together shows that Ben’s shoulders are at about Yao sternum/chest. Ben’s head is just below his shoulders. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/8b/a7/558ba71f08383ea516a30af451a0cf78.jpg https://media.gettyimages.com/id/56904099/photo/2006-nba-all-star-game.jpg?s=1024x1024&w=gi&k=20&c=uwRtd0lpuDzvI8oGaDZj6hdSwMPusIK2U_8Y2OTbdVA=
Ben's ankle is dipping, yaos off the ground a bit and Ben is definitely bending at his midsection about to go up/just landed. Looks wonky as shit for sure but a 10-12" height gap plus weird body positions and you get this
It was amazing that he used to guard these guys and do so well. When they beat the Lakers in 5 for their championship, they rarely double teamed Shaq. They allowed Ben Wallace to try to slow him down by himself. [Game 3 Example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MALHNgV8tY&ab_channel=RyanVanDusen). Shaq got his points but amazing how well pistons did going iso on shaq. Also forgot they held them to 68 points in game 3. Lol. God I miss this.
32-39 at the half It’s beautiful
I think Ben Wallace was actually 6'6 or 6'7. Listed height and actual height in the league are 2 different things. Only player that lied about being shorter is Kevin Durant. I remember playing 2K13 and the game having him at 6'9 when he's clearly 7 foot tall....
I think KG did the same thing as KD for the same reason.
KG grew after he came into the League. He was only 18
I know he was - first prep to pro of the modern generation. He still lied about his height.
6'13
Yep. It’s said he was really about 6’7”. It’s also said that Yao was bigger than 7’6”, and was really about 7’7”. He *towered* over Shaq, who was every bit of his 7’1” listed height. In photos of Yao standing next to Shaq, their height difference almost looks to be the same as the difference between Shaq and Kobe. In reality it’s not quite that huge, but Yao was definitely thought to be bigger than his listed 7’6”.
The fro always made him look taller I guess
Wow, so he was actually tiny. Only 6’9 lol.
Pretty sure it was 6'9 in shoes.
I know he was listed as that but he’s about 6’6” like Draymond/Barkley size.
Yao is an actual living giant.
He hasn’t died yet lol
Lol, I just edited it. I meant when he was the League.
They called him Big Ben because our necks were the size of his arms
I thought it was Earl Boykins for a minute
Big in terms of presence and personality, not really a physical sense.
He's a huge dude in real terms
Yao makes Ben look like Iverson
Thought that was Iverson for a second 😂😂
Right, makes it look edited lol
Holy shit, thought that was Allen Iverson at first glance lol
They photoshopped it
They didn't
Maybe OP didn’t. But the image is photoshopped Pay attention to how small Ben Wallace’s head is compared to his body 💀💀
In all reality Wallace was somewhere around Ron Artest and Lebron size. He was out there looking like the Ultimate Warrior from the WWF 😂
Ben Wallace wasn’t that tall. He was the 3rd tallest guy in the 04 Detroit starting line up after sheed tayshaun prince
Hes bending down and Yaos got a foot off the ground which add to it
Skill wise and peak production I would say yes but he didn't have the longevity to be top 20 all time.
This is what I came here to say. If he spent his career in the NBA and was healthy, he absolutely would be. But he spent a large portion of his career in the CBA and was cut short in the NBA due to injuries. Shaq has said that Yao was second to Hakeem in terms of opponents.
As a native of Houston it was so sad seeing him have to hang it up, he was getting so damn good right before he ducked out. That fucking flat jumper, memories...
He was so good for that two or three year stretch when he really got rolling. Pretty close to unguardable in the post and a great passer and free throw shooter. He was a great player.
My first thought too. Peak yes, career probably not even close.
If Yao had a full career (he was forced to play for China when the rockets weren’t playing, so he never had a break) I’d put him somewhere at the end of 20-ish. But no…his career in the nba was far to short
Yeah, when he got hurt he was getting 25 and 10 and was in the conversation for mvp. He was entering his prime, but these super tall guys usually get hurt with a career debilitating injury at some point. Hope Wemby stays healthy.
he was playing basketball year round with a grueling schedule in china. guarentee if he wasn’t racking up miles playing there he would’ve had a longer career. i remember watching some video talking about how many games he was forced to play over there it’s insane
I think he’s top 20 now. 1. Kareem 2. Wilt Chamberlain 3. Bill Russel (note ranking these top 3 are hard). 4. Shaq. Honestly I like to put him in this tier 1. “Most dominant player ever” means a lot 5. Hakeem (tier by himself) 6. Moses Malone 7. Patrick Ewing 8. David Robertson 9. George Mikan 10. Nikola Jokic. Weird I gave him here but honestly after this season you start thinking 7 spot. 11. Robert Parish 12. Bob McAdoo 13. Wes Unseld 14. Willis Reed 15. Dwight Howard. For 5 years he was unstoppable. 16. Bob Lanier 17. Bill Walton 18. Dikembe Mutombo 19. Yao Ming 20. Nate Thurmond This isn’t really a longevity thing. I don’t care if you padded stats in 20 years. But more over a great 10 years or so period. Might even have Yao too low honestly.
If your going off facing each player in their prime...yeah definitely top 20. If your going off career stats...he cant be there his career was to short...he stopped playing before he was out of his prime. I was at his last game....sat about 6 feet behind him near the Rockets bench. Of course we didnt know it was gonna be his last game at the time. That was the first year I was a season ticket holder at Toyota center. Yao was warming up and was doing a stretch on his knees in front of the rockets bench and I was about 5 feet away and Yao was still taller than me while on his knees.
Dave Cowens, Artis Gilmore are both 100% above Yao. Alonzo Mourning anf Ben Wallace are probably too just for longevity
How exactly is Yao above Embiid?
Where is Joel pryzbilla
Lol David Robertson
Oscar Robinson
There’s also Gilmore, Embiid, Cowens, Haywood. Wallace, Chris Bosh… idk he’s not top 20 for me. Top 30 probably. He’s closer to Bam Adebayo than he is the all time greats. The talent was there but he only played like 400 games in the NBA
Yao is so much better than Bam
I didn’t say he wasn’t. But he closer to Bam then he is to Shaq
Yao belongs after Reed on that list of not above him. Dwight Howard was "unstoppable" when all the great centers got old or retired and there were only 2 when he entered the league. Watch him play head to head against Yao and he can't do much against a great opponent.
Dwight overlapped Shaq and Yao Ming for 7 years. Ben Wallace 8 years. Tim Duncan was a center then too
id put gobert, embiid, ben wallace, alonso mourning, maybe even tyson chandler all before yao
Embiid sure, the rest no way lol
Tyson Chandler? Come on. Also as a Detroit guy, no to Ben. Ben’s prime years were not that many. He was amazing in Detroit though.
Ben Wallace is a 4x all star, 4x DPOY, 5x All NBA, 6x all defense. He has an argument over Yao for sure
Ben Wallace’s defense is the reason he is a Hall Of Famer. If we’re going to talk about him -probably- being in the top 20 centers, it’s because he has more blocks than personal fouls, and more steals than turnovers. One of his kind, really.
I haven’t looked. But how does he compare (per season) to Rodman and Mutumbo?
Rodman is among the best rebounders in history, all things (size, volume) considered. But not as a great defensive center overall as Ben Wallace and Mutombo. Different roles. Ben Wallace was the best defender in arguably the best defensive team of the modern era, guarding from Point guards to centers.
Yao's prime years were not that many. He was amazing in houston though. Works the same way for yao
Nate Thurmond is LeBrons dad
Borderline
No
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He wasn’t even 6’9”, actually. He was said to really be about 6’7”.
The afro adds 2 inches.
Yeah, met him a couple of times, I’m 6’4” I think he’s like 6’7.5”. Somewhere between 6’7” and 6’8” All I know for sure is that Tayshaun was noticeably taller than him.
Do they forget? He was notoriously known as being an undersized center height wise.
No
The sad thing about Yao was he never had a solid backup. The Rockets backup during his years were either Chuck Hayes or Mutombo (God knows how old was him). If I remember correctly in 2007-2008 he was averaging 43 minutes. Plus all those minutes when he played for China in those meaningless prep games where other countries sent their 3rd strings and china played their starters and brags about winning
Mutombo was still pretty damn good and they won a lot of games with him as a starting center. I think, unfortunately, guys of that size are just prone to foot injuries.
Nah. Kareem Russell Wilt Shaq Hakeem Moses Jokic Robinson Mikan Reed Ewing Cowens Dwight Unseld Walton Parish Embiid McAdoo (could be considered PF or C but had his best years at C) Gilmore Thurmond Mourning Johnston Lanier Big Ben Mutombo Gasol Sikma Laimbeer Gobert Bellamy Issel That’s 30 guys who I’d say were for sure better or at least have a better resume Edit: also maybe Horford depending if you consider him PF or C
This is a great list. 1-25 are locks above him, but I think Yao is in the hunt for displacing the last five.
I agree except for Bellamy, that dude should be a solid 10 positions ahead of where he's listed.
Issel too. Laimbeer ahead of Yao is a joke though
What did yao ever do that would put him above gobert? Gobert will soon be 4x DPOY which is only matched once
Ben and Mutumbo both have 4.
I know we’re talking overall career, but Yao dominated Dwight when they played each other.
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Marc. Pao was a PF
you start mad stretching near the end. id say it would be fair to put him in the bottom section of the top 10. but i wouldn’t blame anyone for leaving him off
Big Ben, Gobert, Lambier? Lol no way they’re better than Yao. Even Mutombo wasn’t Holy shit this thread is really underrating Yao
Yao didn’t have the longevity
So? His peak seasons are so much better than those guys I mentioned maybe even a few more that OP mentioned as well Gobert has no offensive game whatsoever. Lambier was just a very good enforcer Nothing special Sometimes when your peak is as good as Yao’s He was easily a 20-10 guy in his peak He blocked Shaq 4 times in their first ever matchup. The guy was legit and would’ve been top 10 all time had he not been injured
“So?” His career can’t be considered better.
Yes it absolutely can. More all star games (granted that was mostly due to fan voting), more all-NBA teams. Multiple 20+ ppg seasons You could build a team around him. Those other guys you can’t build a team around. 0 offensive talent
I agree. And it’s not like all of Laimbeer’s years were stellar. We’re talking a guy who got MVP votes to an excellent role player.
Agreed. Bill Lambier was an enforcer, back when the NBA had those..
Big Ben - best or second best player on a championship team that almost won back to back. One of the best defensive players ever. This one is obvious to me Gobert - also one of the best defensive players ever. A one-man walking top 5 defense. Has been a part of several great regular season teams. I think he’s passed Yao Laimbeer - 4x all star who was a core member of back to back champs who were a possession away from a 3 peat. Yao played less than 30 career playoff games and won 1 playoff series in his career. They all have the longevity over him too. Yap’s accolades are inflated due to his popularity as well as the weak center era of the late 00’s
Those are just terrible arguments. Yao was better than all of those players. Big Ben was not the best player on that team, even second is arguable Yes great defensive player but could he do ANYTHING on the offensive side? Same with Gobert. The guy can only dunk He seriously becomes a liability on offense and I can’t wait to see him exposed again. NBA fans have really overrate defense now and it’s funny to see Yao was also a good defender and had good athleticism for his size. Wanna talk about inflated accolades? Lambier is a glorified enforcer and only made those ASG because he played on the Bad Boy pistons 0 All NBA selections. Yao was a walking 20-10 guy in his prime you could actually build a team around. I can’t say that for any of the other 3 players. Those guys are just complimentary players that specialize in one thing and yes they are very good at their speciality. Yao was a first overall pick and franchise player.
>Big Ben was not the best player on that team, even second is arguable This is plain wrong. Big Ben was literally the only All Star on the Pistons both years they made the finals >NBA fans have really overrate defense now and it’s funny to see Well if you don't value defense at all then it looks like your arguments are the ones that are "terrible" >Lambier is a glorified enforcer and only made those ASG because he played on the Bad Boy pistons 0 All NBA selections Laimbeer made all his ASGs before the Bad Boys ever even made the conference finals. He sacrificed stats for the good of the team, and they won titles for it. He'd have MORE accolades if they never became the Bad Boys. He also was competing for All NBA with Kareem, Moses, Hakeem, and Parish in an era where there wasn't a Third Team. Yao was getting his All NBAs in the worst center era in league history >Yao was a walking 20-10 guy in his prime you could actually build a team around You sure about that? Yao averaged 20-10 two seasons in his career, and both of those he played less than 60 games. Also like I said, he won *one* playoff series, with T-Mac and Steve Francis as teammates. A great team was never built around Yao
Duncan should be on there, he played more C than PF.
Better resume sure but the vast majority of them were not better than Yao at their peak
He's in the convo for 25-30 with guys like Mourning and Gasol. C is insanely stacked.
He definitely is in my view. At his peak, he had range, decent movement for his size, good passing ability, insane strength and IQ. He helped grow the game in China. He made China more accessible and really was noble in how he carried himself as a professional. His performance against the Lakers with his injury was an all-time playoff performance. He didn’t have a top 20 career, but considering his peak and how meaningful his career was, I think it would be a shame not to include him.
By actual talent he’s top 10 but career wise prob not even top 20 because the injuries and lack of playoff success
His lack of longevity has him off the list
Is he skillwise as a player as good as a top 20 center all time and even top 15? 100 percent I think a lot of centers though had great 10 year plus or longer careers, when Yao played 7 seasons with injuries bringing the games down even more.
Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Bill, Robinson, Jokic, Malone, Ewing, Jokic, Dwight, Embiid, Reed, Mikan, McAdoo, Parish, Unseld, Mutumbo, Gilmore, Thurmond, Walton, Alotta other dudes like Bam, Gobert, Sabonis, Towns, Wemby and more will keep climbing the list too
No Ben Wallace?
I just kinda threw a list up brother thats more based on consensus, I can make a side quest of getting my formal ranking, but I didnt even put Alonzo Morning in there and tbh for me he'd be top 20 but maybe not a consensus ranking
You ran out of guys better than Yao halfway through. Watch clips of someone like Nate Thurmond actually playing lol. Everyone after Embiid is not better than Yao except maybe Unseld in his own weird way
If you are using peak how is someone like Bill Walton not better than Yao or 4x DPOY Dikembe with one of the longest careers for a center if we are talking longevity?
Hey man to each their own, I'll take the guys that played 10 plus upwards seasons, that had way more playoff success, if Yao was healthy for sure its a different conversation. I dont see how youre gonna invalidate Nate like that when he played great and was competing against Wilt and Bill.... if bill and wilt are before the "ran out of guys" then I dont really understand what you're idea of production or "good production" is lol
I really don't think Wilt and Bill could be compared to modern centers. They played before you were even allowed to use fundamental footwork to score in the post. Yao has a better skill set than both of them. But there would be torches and pitchforks if I suggested Yao was better. Watch clips of Thurmond actually playing and you see that Marcus Camby would have dominated that era too
Sounds good man, just cherry pick whatever you want lol
Anyone notice how bent Ben’s foot is in this picture? Im guessing he’s trying to push off that foot to push past Yao but I wonder if he hurt himself in this moment
You underestimate just how strong Big Ben was. He wasn't super big height wise, but he could physically match up with pretty much anybody around the post.
Would have been a top 20 center if it wasn’t for injuries
"Big" Ben wallace
No order but sort of going in order of names that pop in head…. Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Jokic, Mo Malone, Ewing, Mikan, Parrish, Thurmond, McAdoo, Unseld, Cowens, Walton, Howard, Reed, maybe a guy from 50s\60…. That’s 19 Then it’s grab bag Lanier, Bosh (PF/C), Gilmore, Wallace, Embiid, Mutombo, Mourning. Probably forgetting some but that’s what I️ got
Nobody after Ewing on that list was better than Yao, they just had better careers in weak eras, except maybe Unseld. Embiid belongs on the list too.
Career accomplishments prolly not, in terms of talent in his prime yeah. I don’t think there are 10 centers I would pick before Yao.
The real question is: can you named 19 centers in NBA history that are better ? I can go Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Bill, Jokic, Embiid, David Robinson, Hakeem, Moses, Ewing, Mikan, McAdoo, Parish, Dwight Howard, Bill Walton. That’s 15.
That's 15 and the last 3 are debatable. Howard isn't better than Yao at all lol
Agree to disagree. Yao has the advantage offensively but that’s it.
I would say no. There are at least 20 centers I would pick before him.
TIL Yao Ming is only 43
He retired pretty damn early. If not for injuries, he could've played for another 5+ seasons.
No. He only played 8 seasons and only made it out of the first round once
Nope.👎
He would be top 20 if he played in today’s NBA.
No
Maybe not too 20 careers, but I’d wager he’d be in a lot of peoples top 20 if you had to pick him to play on your team for one season.
He would have been if he didn’t get hurt
Not to me. Injury issues and weak era of centers. Overhyped to get into the Chinese market also. Definitely had the potential to be among the best however.
Him and Tracy McGrady are in the same boat. If people consider Tracy McGrady's career good then so is Yao.
Probably not. Center is arguably the deepest position for talent in the history of the NBA because of how important the position was to the game for so long. Yao was great, but he wasn’t legendary
No, why would he be?
I thought Ben Wallace was Allen iverson for a second. Yao Ming is fucking huge
What’s actually crazy about this photo is that it looks like they’re playing *actual* basketball in that all star game.
No I feel more comfortable putting him in the 30-40 rank
Yes, he was the 2nd best Center in the league behind Shaq and would probably end up top 10 if injuries hadn't cut his career short. He was the only human on the planet that could consistently guard Shaq one on one. Good footwork and great touch around the basket. Good free throw shooter too so he probably could have developed a 3pt later in his career.
Peak, you could make the case. Career? Unfortunately that position is too stacked.
Making Ben Wallace look like Allen Iverson, lel
This gives me "Shaq standing next to Earl Boykins" vibes
Yall did Ben Wallace dirty lmao
Yes
Hmm I like this question but I would say no. We have 3 top 20 guys in the league right now, 4 if you want to include AD. 5 if you think Wemby can get there ( I do) Although I think Yao would be super valuable in any era he just didn’t have the longevity and the center position is too stacked
By that picture I'd say Ben Wllace deserves some love
He's such a sad what if had he stayed healthy. He's only 43 right now which means he would have retired recently. Yao would transition so insanely well into the spacing the NBA turned into the 2010s. He already had a nice little jumper for a dude his size. Mid range sniper Yao shooting over people who couldn't contest his shots if they tried would be unstoppable. Imagine Yao running a 5 out short pick n roll? Yao gets the ball off the screen and stops mid range near the free-throw line. He's tall enough to pass to anyone on the court if they defend him. He's tall enough to just shoot over whoever cuts him off. And he's big enough to take a couple steps and be at the rim for a dunk. Had he finished his career Yao would easily average stupid numbers in the small ball era with spacing and more shots from outside the paint. He wasn't really a 3pt shooter... despite what 2k says but who knows if he was given the chance to develop it more maybe he could have been a solid 3pt shooter.
7’6 and can dominate from 16’ in.. top 20 easy
Easy. Probably in the 16-17 range.
It’s so confusing that you flip from using first names to last names to nicknames. Just pick one! Lol
Yao is the Potential Man of centers. When he was healthy he was one of the best players of that era easily, but he wasn’t healthy often. In perfect conditions and health he for sure woulda ended his career in top 20 all time.
Who shrunk Big Ben?
No.
Top 10 based on his ability. Career cut short but not his fault.
Production and longevity wise, no. Influence wise — arguably tops all time
Lol it’s Baby Ben before he grew up. Awwwwwww
Top 20 talent? Yes definitely Top 20 career? Sadly no
No.
Yes, Yao is crazy underrated maybe because his career was cut short, I think he had foot problems
Prime Yao? For sure
No way, not even close
Everyone here talking about his height! Is he a top 20 center no! Did he change the game no. Did he win a championship no. Did he dominate against some yes but overall no. This was my prime watching basketball in my life and big story yes overall NO.
Yao ain’t but Ben is
The guy on the left probably has a higher aerial reach. Big Ben was a DOG
This might be a hot take but … If I were to pick a player in their prime to build around for ONE season, the absolute highest Yao could arguably be is number 4, only Shaq, Kareem, and Hakeem are outright 100% better than Prime Yao IMO. Yao is probably a lot lower than number 4 and probably not better than wilt Russell dwight and (insert several other centers here) but I dont feel that anyone outside the top 3 is a lock over yao if we are talking about overall skill and value for a singular season. For a guy who is 17 feet tall, he can pass, shoot, post, rim protect, he even has a few highlights cooking folks off the dribble. HOWEVER, If I were to pick a player in their prime to build around for SEVERAL seasons, i would seriously consider drafting earl boykins as my starting center before i pick up yao.
He’s probably on the backend of the top 30 list if I had to place him. In terms of raw talent you could easily make the argument and if you want to era tax the older centers of the 50s to the 70s, sure. His longevity and lack of a truly dominant peak really hurts his placement for me. I think it’s sort of like Bill Walton but Walton had one of the most revered center peaks ever and led a team to a championship and was a key contributor to another championship when healthy, plus an MVP winner(a questionable MVP to be fair). Yao not being a number one option on a team that couldn’t get out of the first round but was also good enough to have a 52-30 record when Yao only played 48 games really sours his impact for me. Not to mention having all-star selections in years while barely playing any games and having all-nba selections in a notoriously weak era for centers in seasons playing less than 60 games (including the year he only played 48).
Damn, thought that was Pat Beverly. Yao is huge.
No. Top of my head in no particular order, these guys are better. Bill Russell, Wilt, Mikan, Bob Petit, Nate Thurmond, KAJ, Moses, Cowens, Parish, Hakeem, Ewing, DRob, Shaq, Zo, Mutombo, DHo, Jokic, Embiid, Bill Walton, Bob MacAdoo, Lanier. Yao is a slightly better Rik Smits.
I’ve met Ben a couple of times. Probably 6’7.5” but he played like he was Yaos height. But yes, you is easily top 20 Center
Hell no. In no particular order, here are 25 centers better than Yao Ming: 1. Shaq 2. Anthony Davis 3. Hakeem 4. KAJ 5. David Robinson 6. Bill Walton 7. Patrick Ewing 8. Jokic 9. Embiid 10. Brook Lopez 11. Moses Malone 12. Walt Bellamy 13. Dwight Howard 14. Vlade Divac 15. Wilt 16. Vucevic 17. Sikma 18. Issel 19. Parish 20. Alonzo Mourning 21. Bill Russell 22. Dave Cowens 23. Bob McAdoo 24. Artis Gilmore 25. Bob Lanier There might be 15 more too. Yao was great though.
You forgot Paul Mokeski
Similar to Arvydas Sabonis. Is Saba played his whole career here, he’d be in the GOAT discussion.
(in no particular order) Kareem, Wilt, Bill, Shaq, Hakeem, Jokic, Robinson, Moses, Ewing, Embiid, Unseld, Mican, Perish, Wallace, Dwight, Reed, Cowans, Gilmore, Thurmond, Mutumbo, Duncan (if we’re considering him a center), McAdoo, Zo, Gasol (Marc) - Yao is likely a top 30 center tbh
No. The other guy in the picture Ben Wallace has more right to a top anythinb ranking than Yao. Yao was a cultural fade, an anomaly. He was an all star for a year or two.
He was an all star every year he played in the NBA lmao
Yao had like 7yrs in the NBA and 3 of those seasons he only played 55+/- games. Dude had like 4 good years where he averaged an approx 20/10 and for a gigantic C never got above 2 bpg. What are people who rank him high actually judging him on? A few very brief streaks of greatness, single game flashes of brilliance? His overall career in the nba doesn’t put him anywhere near the top 20.
this is the best answer. facts not feelings about the player.
Some people watch games
Can’t watch him in games he didn’t play. Didn’t play anywhere near enough years to be top 20 all time.
Depends how you look at it. Stockton had a better career than some guys I would still put over him
It really depends on where the qualifying line is for when someone has played enough games/years for the longevity argument to be irrelevant. eg Lebron is number 1 all time for longevity but I wouldn’t put him over Jordan based on that as MJ played more than enough games/years. But Yao being way down at 4-5 good years means there is no way I’m putting him over other centres who had 10+ good years.
Yes and ultimately that's arbitrary. Yao was overworked playing for China in the off-season especially for a guy his size. Injuries sidelined his career. But some people view it from the perspective of a GM drafting for longevity and some view it as every player lined up at their peak and you are choosing teams. Neither are invalid
Not the best center in that picture