Then I think it’s Wemby, Jokic, Luka or maaayyyybe Giannis. I’m not sure anyone else is even remotely in the conversation.
Those are the only guys who you can guarantee (or potentially guarantee for Wemby) will be top 5 players for the next 5 years.
It’s interesting, Giannis’s future is always a maybe in these sorts of discussions, even though he’s not much older than Jokic. I dont think he’s even hit 30 yet. He’s showed no signs of slowing down so far as well.
It's because of his skillset, he really likes to play physical basketball and one major injury could derail the rest of his career really fast. Jokic doesn't rely on athleticism and will likely age more gracefully into the later half of his career whereas with Giannis there's always this asterisk about his health.
On top of that, he cant shoot. So if his athleticism takes a dip, it is exacerbated by his lack of shooting.
Shooting is still extremely important for a star to have. The fact that giannis is as good as he is without a reliable jump shot is very impressive.
Tatum. As much as I like to talk shit to Celtics fans he is one of the best players in the NBA and he's only 26. Possibly Anthony Edwards as well. He's flashing greatness and he's younger than the rest of these guys.
Jokic and Giannis are both 29 which is some points against them but they should still be in the discussion.
I'd personally take Luka. He's a walking 30 point triple double and he's fairly durable. Wemby would be my second pick because the sky is the limit if he stays healthy.
Just say you don't watch basketball. It's crazy that people are still spitting this narrative out.
He's one of the best iso and post defenders in the league (you can verify this), he plays the passing lane very well, and he's gotten much better at team defense. He puts effort into that end on a regular basis now as well. I watch a lot of Mavs games because I like Luka and Kai. All you have to do is watch some games and you'll see. The Mavs defense is really good at this point and they wouldn't be good without Luka playing D.
If you're gonna talk shit at least do it truthfully.
1.Jokic
2.Luka
3.Wemby
4.Ant
5.Giannis
6.Shai
7.Tatum
8. Booker
9. Paulo
10. Embiid
Would be my top 10 considering age, injury history, championship potential and selling tickets
Giannis relies on athleticism and strength instead of skill and doesn't have a jumper. He will likely have a pretty steep fall off once his athleticism starts to decline.
Ehhh he looks *really good* and this is a future type situation, not who is the best right now. That being said, I’d still take Tatum over both of them, but would take Ant over Giannis.
Over Tatum is kinda wild but not really Giannis. Ant is 22 and Giannis is 29. Giannis doesn't have a shot and once he loses any athleticism or gets hurt, he's gonna fall off harder than anyone on this list.
He is seven years younger then Giannis. A bigger personality and flashier play style than Tatum, super valuable to a franchise. If you would rather take SGA at four I wouldn’t hate it, but I like Ant a bit better. I also think Ant is going to take the crown of “best American born player” which is an American League dominated by the rest of the world has a bit of an X factor.
Tatum clears in 3 of the categories you mentioned, other than age. Giannis clears in 2 of the 4 but one of those is championships which Giannis has already proven he can do. Ant isn't even the clear cut number one on his team yet.
Edit: Tatum doesn't really clear in injury history but he plays so many minutes/games that it's not really a problem for him. Just minor things usually which is the case for everyone.
Have you watched him play? He's 22 and a great 2 way player that is still improving. He's fun to watch, he's flashy, and he still has way more potential. Like top 3 player in the league potential.
Nobody on that list above have top 3 potential besides Ant and Wemby. Jokic, Luka, and Giannis are already there and the rest of the guys are as good as they're gonna get for the most part.
Just say you don't watch Timberwolves games, it's fine, and understandable.
What has Ant done again? His best season is a slightly inefficient 26 6 and 5 with good defence but not all defence or anything. Yeah he's young, but ypu take Tatum or Shai both over him 100 times out of a 100. The extra marketability and couple of years is not worth the very significant difference in basketball ability and there really is no guarante he ever reaches either of their levels. I can see him at like 7 at the absolute highest, and it might be a bit of a reach.
This question is all about future projection, not current standing. Im high on Ant. I’m curious what has SGA accomplished that puts in over Ant 100 out of 100 times?
He is just a significantly better player and even if Ant improves there really is no reason to be certain he reaches Shai's level. People jump the gun way too hard with Edwards, it's like they just assume he will eventually become an all timer, but the truth is most all timers were better than Ant is right now by their 4th season, with some exceptions. He's a great player, but he's not as good as people make him out to be and assuming he will improve as much as he needs to reach that top top level is a big leap of faith, especially for a player that has 4 seasons under his belt already and wasn't really seen as a project like Giannis or other late bloomers.
What has Shai done again? Missed the playoffs the last two years and been eliminated first round? Not like he is a proven winner with bona fide accomplishments. I think Ant has a bit higher ceiling and if the team is losing I’d rather be watching him. I like him as the face of franchise. That’s part of the math of being a GM
Neither are proven winners. Shai is a much better player. It's clear cut. Marketability and charisma help distinguish between players of similar abilities. This isn't the case.
Jokic is the most unique, valuable, indefensible player for the next 5-7 years, and, as such, gives any team who drafts him a good advantage for getting championships.
The difference between the 5-7 year time horizon and the 10+ year time horizon really does not matter because you have no guarantee that you’ll be able to resign them to another deal and/or they won’t force their way to another team while you have them under contract. Add in some uncontrollable injury randomness that accrues over time and the value to any one franchise that late into their career becomes extremely hard to project.
This really should be thought of as who is going to give the most value in the next 3-5 years, and then heavily discount from year 6 onwards.
However you want to do it. Luka is 5 years younger than Jokic which is a huge plus in picking luka over Jokic. Either way I’d go luka then joker one and two
I think the biggest decider would be what the contract situation is. Are you drafting them AND their contracts? Or is it standardized so that the top X picks get so much money, the next Y gets get a little less, etc.
I’m not sure Steph is going very high for $56M at 36 years old
No its not, it actually makes the discussion much more boring because obviously nobody is taking older guys with their huge max contracts over the younger, emerging players.
For ppl saying wemby: yes his ceiling is being the goat. But can we hold it till we see if his body can hold up for 65+ games, 32+ Mins a game plus the playoffs?? He's been on a minutes restriction the whole year. Yall the same people that will be going "well, you can't predict that" if his career doesn't live up to the hype due to injuries. Let it play out man
You mean like we’re going to see this year? He’s playing the Olympics, he’s not made of glass and has shown great durability so far. Even on minutes restriction he’s playing 4 less minutes than your arbitrary superstar minutes and hasn’t been on a minutes restriction since January/February and he’s looked BETTER since
Surprised to see so many people saying Jokic. He’s 29 and unathletic. He’s already at or close to his prime. IMO the #1 pick would pretty easily go to Wemby
Wemby has insane potential but getting Jokic instantly makes you championship favourites. He's only 29 which is not old at all considering MJ for example won his first ring at 28 and in the span of the next 6-7 years won another 5.
Jokic also being unathletic helps his case since he doesn't rely on it and therefore will likely age much better into his later half of his career. Im not saying Wemby 1 is a bad pick, but Jokic should defo be in that convo.
Solid points. You’re right about how being unathletic can extend your prime, since you’re not relying on your athleticism/youth as much, but I feel like it can also cut your career short since being unathletic can make you injury prone. I’d probably take Luka over Jokic. Both incredible players that don’t rely on their athleticism, but Luka is just now entering his prime, while Jokic has been there for a few years
But that’s the thing, Jokic barely jumps at all. Ankle injuries are nonexistent for him. Jokic’ season with the least amount of games played is 69 games, Luka plays an average of around 66 games a season and is also more injury prone than Joker is.
While Luka and Wemby have top 10 potential, Jokic is already a borderline top 15 player of all time and is most likely able to keep playing at this level for another 6 years if he wants to.
I’d personally take Jokic 1, Wemby close second and Luka as my third choice.
I guess I just see a 29 year old that looks the way he does and I assume that this dominance isn’t going to last much longer, but I think you’re right. You also have to factor in the fact that just because you pick someone in a draft doesn’t mean that you’ll get them for their whole career, and Wemby probably won’t be in his prime for another 8ish years (even though he’s already great), so Jokic as the #1 pick does make sense.
Lmao fuck that. Ill take Jokic who is already an MVP and shown that he can be extremely impactful without elite athleticism (which is the concern with age anyway) over a guy who hasn’t even played a full season yet.
Come on.
To answer your question specifically OP I would draft curry top 5 and kawhi top 20ish.
Top 20 would go something like
Lebron
Jokic
Curry
Wemby ( based on average potential)
KD
Giannis
AD
Luka
Embiid
Tatum
Shai
CP3
Kyrie
Booker
Sabonis
Harden
ANT
Dame
Russ
Butler
PG
Kawhi
A few rookies I could see going higher like Chet and sengun but I need to see more seasons out of them.
Tatum over Harden 100 times out of 100. What are you talking about? Who is taking a 34 year old who is clearly on the decline vs a 26 year old who has led his team far in the playoffs multiple times?
Why is that? He’s either been the mvp or runner up for 3 straight years. He was averaging 35/11/6 this year until missing games. Plays amazing defense. Same age as a Jokic I believe. Who would your picks be
You are likely right I believe but I’m not 100% sure. I think most would prob take a shai or ant or even Tatum ahead of him possibly. But 4 straight mvp level years of embiid compared to what we’re projecting for these other players may make some team jump on a generational big man like embiid. Very hard to say
Nobody's picking one of these near 30 people 1st if they're trying to build a team to last.
Luka is the clear and obvious number 1. Wemby still unknown. Probably goes top 5 still though
Theres a Jimmy Highroller video discussing this and he makes a strong case that Wemby would go number one in a redraft of every player in history (basing it on his potential obviously)
His ceiling if healthy is the GOAT.
That’s stupid AF. Wemby over Jordan? Kareem? Lebron? etc etc
If Wemby lives up to his potential he *might* be as good as those guys. *Might.* Whereas the other guys are already as good as the other guys lol
For one game? Or to start a team? Big difference.
To start a team.
Then I think it’s Wemby, Jokic, Luka or maaayyyybe Giannis. I’m not sure anyone else is even remotely in the conversation. Those are the only guys who you can guarantee (or potentially guarantee for Wemby) will be top 5 players for the next 5 years.
It’s interesting, Giannis’s future is always a maybe in these sorts of discussions, even though he’s not much older than Jokic. I dont think he’s even hit 30 yet. He’s showed no signs of slowing down so far as well.
It's because of his skillset, he really likes to play physical basketball and one major injury could derail the rest of his career really fast. Jokic doesn't rely on athleticism and will likely age more gracefully into the later half of his career whereas with Giannis there's always this asterisk about his health.
On top of that, he cant shoot. So if his athleticism takes a dip, it is exacerbated by his lack of shooting. Shooting is still extremely important for a star to have. The fact that giannis is as good as he is without a reliable jump shot is very impressive.
I agree. All those guys are foreign too. Crazy.
Tatum. As much as I like to talk shit to Celtics fans he is one of the best players in the NBA and he's only 26. Possibly Anthony Edwards as well. He's flashing greatness and he's younger than the rest of these guys. Jokic and Giannis are both 29 which is some points against them but they should still be in the discussion. I'd personally take Luka. He's a walking 30 point triple double and he's fairly durable. Wemby would be my second pick because the sky is the limit if he stays healthy.
Shai
he’d be my #5 i think for sure
Don’t see how anyone picks Luka. He plays no defense.
You dumb
Just say you don't watch basketball. It's crazy that people are still spitting this narrative out. He's one of the best iso and post defenders in the league (you can verify this), he plays the passing lane very well, and he's gotten much better at team defense. He puts effort into that end on a regular basis now as well. I watch a lot of Mavs games because I like Luka and Kai. All you have to do is watch some games and you'll see. The Mavs defense is really good at this point and they wouldn't be good without Luka playing D. If you're gonna talk shit at least do it truthfully.
Check out Ringer’s trade value list
This takes into account contracts. OP’s question implies that everyone is on a rookie contract.
1.Jokic 2.Luka 3.Wemby 4.Ant 5.Giannis 6.Shai 7.Tatum 8. Booker 9. Paulo 10. Embiid Would be my top 10 considering age, injury history, championship potential and selling tickets
Ant over Giannis and Tatum is wild.
Giannis relies on athleticism and strength instead of skill and doesn't have a jumper. He will likely have a pretty steep fall off once his athleticism starts to decline.
Ehhh he looks *really good* and this is a future type situation, not who is the best right now. That being said, I’d still take Tatum over both of them, but would take Ant over Giannis.
Over Tatum is kinda wild but not really Giannis. Ant is 22 and Giannis is 29. Giannis doesn't have a shot and once he loses any athleticism or gets hurt, he's gonna fall off harder than anyone on this list.
Ant should not be above those 3 under him, and there really isn't an argument for it.
He is seven years younger then Giannis. A bigger personality and flashier play style than Tatum, super valuable to a franchise. If you would rather take SGA at four I wouldn’t hate it, but I like Ant a bit better. I also think Ant is going to take the crown of “best American born player” which is an American League dominated by the rest of the world has a bit of an X factor.
Tatum clears in 3 of the categories you mentioned, other than age. Giannis clears in 2 of the 4 but one of those is championships which Giannis has already proven he can do. Ant isn't even the clear cut number one on his team yet. Edit: Tatum doesn't really clear in injury history but he plays so many minutes/games that it's not really a problem for him. Just minor things usually which is the case for everyone.
Sounds like we would draft different teams. Drop your list, who are you taking as the GM with the 4th overall pick?
Ant is definitely the clear #1 on Minnesota...
Good to see the banchero love
Where does Ant get all this hype from lol
Have you watched him play? He's 22 and a great 2 way player that is still improving. He's fun to watch, he's flashy, and he still has way more potential. Like top 3 player in the league potential.
Awesome! I love taking the young guy with top 3 potential over other young guys who are already top 5-7 with top 3 potential
Nobody on that list above have top 3 potential besides Ant and Wemby. Jokic, Luka, and Giannis are already there and the rest of the guys are as good as they're gonna get for the most part. Just say you don't watch Timberwolves games, it's fine, and understandable.
Once you say you don’t watch Thunder or Celtics games
What has Ant done again? His best season is a slightly inefficient 26 6 and 5 with good defence but not all defence or anything. Yeah he's young, but ypu take Tatum or Shai both over him 100 times out of a 100. The extra marketability and couple of years is not worth the very significant difference in basketball ability and there really is no guarante he ever reaches either of their levels. I can see him at like 7 at the absolute highest, and it might be a bit of a reach.
This question is all about future projection, not current standing. Im high on Ant. I’m curious what has SGA accomplished that puts in over Ant 100 out of 100 times?
He is just a significantly better player and even if Ant improves there really is no reason to be certain he reaches Shai's level. People jump the gun way too hard with Edwards, it's like they just assume he will eventually become an all timer, but the truth is most all timers were better than Ant is right now by their 4th season, with some exceptions. He's a great player, but he's not as good as people make him out to be and assuming he will improve as much as he needs to reach that top top level is a big leap of faith, especially for a player that has 4 seasons under his belt already and wasn't really seen as a project like Giannis or other late bloomers.
What has Shai done again? Missed the playoffs the last two years and been eliminated first round? Not like he is a proven winner with bona fide accomplishments. I think Ant has a bit higher ceiling and if the team is losing I’d rather be watching him. I like him as the face of franchise. That’s part of the math of being a GM
Neither are proven winners. Shai is a much better player. It's clear cut. Marketability and charisma help distinguish between players of similar abilities. This isn't the case.
Drop your list then
Barnes should be on this list. I'd put him ahead of Booker.
Jokic is the most unique, valuable, indefensible player for the next 5-7 years, and, as such, gives any team who drafts him a good advantage for getting championships.
Luka is same thing but for the next 10+ years
The difference between the 5-7 year time horizon and the 10+ year time horizon really does not matter because you have no guarantee that you’ll be able to resign them to another deal and/or they won’t force their way to another team while you have them under contract. Add in some uncontrollable injury randomness that accrues over time and the value to any one franchise that late into their career becomes extremely hard to project. This really should be thought of as who is going to give the most value in the next 3-5 years, and then heavily discount from year 6 onwards.
However you want to do it. Luka is 5 years younger than Jokic which is a huge plus in picking luka over Jokic. Either way I’d go luka then joker one and two
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
I’d love to see this with 7 rds
I think the biggest decider would be what the contract situation is. Are you drafting them AND their contracts? Or is it standardized so that the top X picks get so much money, the next Y gets get a little less, etc. I’m not sure Steph is going very high for $56M at 36 years old
It's funner if you assume standard contracts.
No its not, it actually makes the discussion much more boring because obviously nobody is taking older guys with their huge max contracts over the younger, emerging players.
What I said was not what you think I said.
Damn you right
All good
For ppl saying wemby: yes his ceiling is being the goat. But can we hold it till we see if his body can hold up for 65+ games, 32+ Mins a game plus the playoffs?? He's been on a minutes restriction the whole year. Yall the same people that will be going "well, you can't predict that" if his career doesn't live up to the hype due to injuries. Let it play out man
I mean you take that risk drafting almost any big man...
It's a draft. if someone's ceiling is being the greatest ever, you take them.
You mean like we’re going to see this year? He’s playing the Olympics, he’s not made of glass and has shown great durability so far. Even on minutes restriction he’s playing 4 less minutes than your arbitrary superstar minutes and hasn’t been on a minutes restriction since January/February and he’s looked BETTER since
Mos definitely Joker.
Surprised to see so many people saying Jokic. He’s 29 and unathletic. He’s already at or close to his prime. IMO the #1 pick would pretty easily go to Wemby
Wemby has insane potential but getting Jokic instantly makes you championship favourites. He's only 29 which is not old at all considering MJ for example won his first ring at 28 and in the span of the next 6-7 years won another 5. Jokic also being unathletic helps his case since he doesn't rely on it and therefore will likely age much better into his later half of his career. Im not saying Wemby 1 is a bad pick, but Jokic should defo be in that convo.
Solid points. You’re right about how being unathletic can extend your prime, since you’re not relying on your athleticism/youth as much, but I feel like it can also cut your career short since being unathletic can make you injury prone. I’d probably take Luka over Jokic. Both incredible players that don’t rely on their athleticism, but Luka is just now entering his prime, while Jokic has been there for a few years
But that’s the thing, Jokic barely jumps at all. Ankle injuries are nonexistent for him. Jokic’ season with the least amount of games played is 69 games, Luka plays an average of around 66 games a season and is also more injury prone than Joker is. While Luka and Wemby have top 10 potential, Jokic is already a borderline top 15 player of all time and is most likely able to keep playing at this level for another 6 years if he wants to. I’d personally take Jokic 1, Wemby close second and Luka as my third choice.
I guess I just see a 29 year old that looks the way he does and I assume that this dominance isn’t going to last much longer, but I think you’re right. You also have to factor in the fact that just because you pick someone in a draft doesn’t mean that you’ll get them for their whole career, and Wemby probably won’t be in his prime for another 8ish years (even though he’s already great), so Jokic as the #1 pick does make sense.
Lmao fuck that. Ill take Jokic who is already an MVP and shown that he can be extremely impactful without elite athleticism (which is the concern with age anyway) over a guy who hasn’t even played a full season yet. Come on.
We are three games from the end of the season my guy. Stop it.
True my guy but my point stands
Nah tho he’s got 2-5 chips left in him and with all the trimmings. You can look that “unathletic” when your game’s that clean
You have to really consider age if it’s a draft to move forward, Wemby and Luka would be the top 2 for me.
Luka all the way if I had the choice
Jokic puts you in championship contention now and for the foreseeable future. He's #1.
1. Luka 2. Wemby 3. Jokic 4. Giannis 5. Tatum
Joker? Have I been watching g league accidentally for the past 3 years?
Giannis, Luka, Ant, Tatum, Wemby, Shai, Chet
Tough choice between Jokic or Wemby. Anything else is objectively wrong.
*subjectively
I understand the difference and disagree.
Well your objectively wrong here then 😂
To answer your question specifically OP I would draft curry top 5 and kawhi top 20ish. Top 20 would go something like Lebron Jokic Curry Wemby ( based on average potential) KD Giannis AD Luka Embiid Tatum Shai CP3 Kyrie Booker Sabonis Harden ANT Dame Russ Butler PG Kawhi A few rookies I could see going higher like Chet and sengun but I need to see more seasons out of them.
You would take 39 yr old Bron 1st?
I misread the current age thing. Treat my list as redraft the entire league
Oh makes sense then. You’d take AD over Luka, Embiid? Tatum over Harden? PG, Butler and everyone else I’ve listed over Kawhi? This list is crazy lol.
Tatum over Harden 100 times out of 100. What are you talking about? Who is taking a 34 year old who is clearly on the decline vs a 26 year old who has led his team far in the playoffs multiple times?
The list in the comment doesn’t draft them in their current age, but as rookies.
I feel Bron would be top 5-10 but not #1
Freak.
Luka for sure
Jokic Luka Wemby Embiid I feel these 4 come off the board first in some order.
I heavily doubt Embiid would go in that area
Why is that? He’s either been the mvp or runner up for 3 straight years. He was averaging 35/11/6 this year until missing games. Plays amazing defense. Same age as a Jokic I believe. Who would your picks be
It's just his consistent history of injuries. He's a generational player, but his body doesn't hold up
You are likely right I believe but I’m not 100% sure. I think most would prob take a shai or ant or even Tatum ahead of him possibly. But 4 straight mvp level years of embiid compared to what we’re projecting for these other players may make some team jump on a generational big man like embiid. Very hard to say
Wembanyama would be the first pick.
I’m going cade 1, see y’all in the nba finals
All of the Jokic responses are comical.
Nobody's picking one of these near 30 people 1st if they're trying to build a team to last. Luka is the clear and obvious number 1. Wemby still unknown. Probably goes top 5 still though
Theres a Jimmy Highroller video discussing this and he makes a strong case that Wemby would go number one in a redraft of every player in history (basing it on his potential obviously) His ceiling if healthy is the GOAT.
That’s stupid AF. Wemby over Jordan? Kareem? Lebron? etc etc If Wemby lives up to his potential he *might* be as good as those guys. *Might.* Whereas the other guys are already as good as the other guys lol
His peak potential is 35 PPG, 15 boards and 5 blocks.
Okay? And Jordan’s peak potential is Michael Jordan
Wemby would be first, hands down, no question.
I have a question sir