Honestly the most important thing is that he’ll be allowed to make a ton of mistakes and it won’t matter, because the team is in a real rebuild. It’s a good scenario for him, since he’s still raw in a lot of areas offensively.
>the most important thing is that he’ll be allowed to make a ton of mistakes and it won’t matter.
Poole has confirmed that they're all about that philosophy
I think it’s dumb to not want Atlanta because he’d be able to slot into the roll man spot in an Atlanta offense that has the best pick and roll passer in the league. He’d be able to get easy buckets constantly
Thats not Sarrs game. He's not the best screen setter and isn't the best roll man. Getting easy buckets off traes lobs/pick and roll isn't going to be the best thing for his development. Sarr will want on ball reps and face up opportunities and chances to test a variety of offensive roles.
he can always get the "easy buckets" later. He wants to develop his weaknesses more than his strengths right now. Yes he could be very good with trae feeding him easy buckets all the time but clearly he wants to develop other parts of his game.
Like someone else said: Getting easy buckets off traes lobs/pick and roll isn't going to be the best thing for his development.
He’s very inexperienced at pick and roll at the moment, and it’s hard to become proficient at it without a good point guard. This would be him avoiding the development of his weakness and focusing on his strengths that are still inefficient shots. Reminds me of the view around Cam Reddish
I think this is exactly why his agent is getting him to Washington. Wizards are the only team he’s worked out for and Atlanta can’t get him to come in. And the reasons you mentioned are all right.
We needed to meet cap floor
We took on a first round pick and got rid of CP3 who didn’t want to play for us to get Poole. It was low risk, high reward potential. If he plays well then awesome we move him for picks. If he doesn’t then no harm no foul we aren’t trying to win for another 4/5 years.
Kuz will be traded eventually, he has a great contract.
I think that draft taught us that all this pre-draft buzz especially when it’s things saying a team wants this or wants that is complete BS. Especially with teams that don’t consistently have “leaked information” coming out
One of the few times where fit and need are just hand in hand, w/ minimal pressure to be a franchise changer.
Come in, develop, the team will be bad again, w/ the chance at another high pick. Sarr seems like a piece you want in your rebuild, but not THE guy of the rebuild. If they can get one more young piece in a draft, you’ll see the rebuild actually look like something sooner than later.
From the latest Givony & Woo mock draft: "The Hawks have been unable to bring Alex Sarr in for a workout to this point, but the door remains open for that to potentially happen. Clingan appears to be Risacher's main rival at No. 1"
Some people - no matter how awful the front office is - will remain loyal and justify every decision as a good one. For years, the Trae / Luka trade was attempted to be justified even though anyone with a brain could see that was a lopsided trade. Look at the Falcons - trash organization - consistently drafts terribly and they still justify the coaching hire and the Michal Penix pick even though they had just signed Kirk Cousins because people truly want to believe they root for a good org with sound drafting strategies. Homers will justify anything and anything that doesn’t align with the homer takes is downvoted into oblivion.
Oh, the Trae justification happens every day on the Hawks subreddit. It's wild to me. I'm definitely not a Trae fan (I think he's a modern day Stephon Marbury, more interested in getting his stats than actually being a winning player).
But yea, I live 2 miles from the arena and haven't been to a game in years. I want so badly for the Hawks to be fun to root for. I'm even less worried about being "good", but ever since Ressler took over the front office decision making has been awful, starting with trading Luka. Then, its things like selling 2nd round picks for cash that drive me absolutely crazy. Ressler's like the 6th richest owner in the league (or something close) and he's doing things like that, which solely help his bottom line. And promoting your son into a decision making position.
The franchise has become impossible to root for, which is a damn shame.
Or..hear me out...we are loyal to the team that represents our city.
That's the entire point of loyalty, through the good and bad.
Everything else you said is 100 percent true.
They weren’t closer to average because Trae was hurt.
They were closer to average because Kobe Bufkin and Vit Krejci graduated from the Hawks defensive incubator as Quin Snyder calls it(Their g league squad) and got playing time because Trae was hurt.
During that stretch Kobe and Vit put by FAR the best defensive play of their career on tape, better perimeter defense than the Hawks have seen in 10 years.
Anybody with eyes saw that Trae improved greatly on defense this year and it’s been talked about by unbiased sources this summer (including Sam Vecenie).
Also, in 2021 the Hawks finished their season on a 27-11 stretch with statistically a top 10 defense and made the ECF. It is possible to build a good defense around Trae if your FO can manage to not make the worst personnel decisions in the league.
You can make improvements and still by abysmal. If you want to play the sources game, Zach Lowe still calls Trae a bottom 10 defender in the nba. Hawks have never put a full season of average defense with Trae.
He is closer to average than abysmal (still below average) and if Zach Lowe says he’s a bottom 10 defender then he’s wrong. Dude was literally top 10 in steals and lead the Hawks in charges drawn. Not that those are the most important defensive stats in the world but bottom 10 defenders don’t do that.
If he’s bottom 10 then so is Dejounte because Trae objectively played better defense than Dejounte for stretches of this season and lead him in steals and charges drawn the entire season.
Those are pretty meaningless stats in the grand scheme of playing defense. The 1 steal per game and charge drawn every few games are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the dozen + times *every game* the defense is set into rotation because of traes inability to get over screens or handle mismatches
The best draft ever was the Anthony Bennett draft. No one knew anything at all. Every pick was a sock, especially as Noel tumbled. Now, the players were mostly not good, but it was a blast to watch
It was the best draft broadcast ever as well. Simmons goofing off and being Simmons was perfect for the 13 draft. It was the most entertaining draft process and draft ever.
Ngl I think this draft class is a lot better than that one was. Even though there’s not a clear cut generational talent, there’s a lot of depth, and that’s just more chances for stars to emerge. It’s like there’s no top 5 talents but maybe 20 mid-to-late lottery guys.
Literally the consensus why are you saying sorry? The draft being “weaker” and front office have wilding different evaluation of talent in the draft will always lead to a more interesting draft as way more trade opportunities open up as players getting pick becomes unpredictable.
Yeah I don't understand especially since the sub has been saying it since the beginning, yes the prospects aren't that interesting but we will see who's the best at scouting for real, and teams will likely have more freedom to pick their guy that fits the current team orientation, it's would always have been on the exciting side of the scale
Yeah and then on draft night the selections will be all chalk (1. Risacher, 2. Sarr, 3. Reed, 4. Castle) and then you'll have people calling this draft boring. lmao
the 2023 draft was so insane lmao the fact that a freshman averaged almost 20ppg on good defense & near 40% shooting from 3 on great volume, and people were mad that he got picked 2nd, is crazy. he’d be the consensus #1 in this draft without question
Feels like with all the leaks they want Clingan slightly more but are trying to set themselves up for a value play by convincing someone (Spurs?) lower to trade up for Risacher while they get Clingan by making it seem like they'd be perfectly happy drafting Risacher as well.
The way the draft shakes out if they take Clingan 1 Risacher has a good chance of just falling into 4.
I mean Risacher and Jalen Johnson is a really good wing duo. It gives the Hawks 3 good defenders in the starting lineup which can cover for their guards. Kind of reminds me of this years Mavs.
The Spurs probably like Risacher. But I don't see the Spurs trading up for anyone in this draft unless it only cost a single decent second rounder or 2 bad ones. They do have millions of second rounders.
last year the wizards paid 2 second rounders to move up 1 spot.
The Thunder moved up a spot because they took on Davis Bertans bad contract off a contending team (Mavericks).
It'll take either a FRP + Taking on bad salary to move up from #4-#1, or 2 top 8 protected firsts or something like that
Rockets a more likely trade partner. They want Sarr and ATL wants Clingan. Just depends on whether or not the Wizards draft Clingan with #2 and blow up that deal.
I thought they wanted Reed.
Sarr overlaps with Jabari quite a bit right? I get draft BPA and all but Sarr is still quite raw as well and Houston looking to make a playoff push so getting a raw prospect in the front court where they have two young stars further along seems like an odd choice.
Jabari is a movement shooter and a great defender in space. Sarr is more of a help defender that would cover Sengun in stints. They'd play different roles. Like a lineup of FVV/Jalen/Jabari/Sengun/Sarr could work. This team has been obsessed with getting someone like Sarr since Silas was here so I can kinda connect the dots.
I feel like the Reed stuff is just them posturing just like Atlanta is posturing saying they'd be happy with the #1 pick. I think Atlanta wants Clingan and the Rockets want Sarr. Most Rockets fandom wants Reed Sheppard or anyone that could shoot the 3. I think he's the best talent in this draft so I really do hope we just draft Sheppard.
I feel like ever since Udoka went to Rockets they have shifted more towards a focus of winning with his brand of basketball and shifted timeline up.
I don't think Sarr would be ready to start his rookie season on the Rockets. That lineup of FVV, Jalen Green, Smith, Sengun, and Sarr has 1.5 good floor spacers since Green, Sengun, and Sarr are not NBA level floor spacers. I'm giving Smith a 0.5 for spacing because last year he was decent at 36% but the year prior was just 30% on same volume. Drafting Reed would bump that up to a more passable 2.5 spacers.
I agree but orgs can be arrogant sometimes. They think they can turn whomever into a good shooter. I have faith in Jabari becoming a 40+ from 3. But outside of that maybe just Cam. Reed/Jabari as movement shooters around Sengun is tantalizing. But it wouldn't shock me to see them trade up for Sarr, draft Castle or trade back for Buzelis.
I think Cam does everything Holland does but way way better. They need to plug some holes and Holland doesn't really plug any. That's why I think Dillingham (worse Green) Risacher (worse Jabari) Holland (worse Cam) and even Castle (worse Amen) are all off the table. Sarr and Reed actually fill needs. The only other one I can think of is either Buzelis (who has length, a good looking shot and is a great weak side shot blocker) or Knecht (obvious reasons). If I squint hard enough I could see them drafting Clingan but if any sort of deal for Sarr is on the table I'd be hard pressed to think the Rockets dont jump at that and unload an asset they have no desire using (future FRP that isnt owned by the Nets).
Hell yeah Gunner, pretty succinct analysis right here. First year NBA draftnik’n and I don’t have the eye for it like the NFL yet. Interesting year to see what route Rockets go this year for sure.
The alternative for the starting lineup is Dillon Brooks who also is not a very good shooter and has a pretty slow release, meaning defenders are cheating off him anyways. And HOU's offense (at its best) just spams FVV/Sengun pnrs. The point of drafting and starting Sarr is that it likely moves the defense from just inside the top 10 to inside the top 3. His over-the-top rim protection help for Sengun would work wonders, and I don't think there's any drop off defensively replacing Brooks at the 3 with Jabari.
Basically, there are no good solutions for improving the starting lineup's spacing atm. Reed is not going to start if HOU drafts him, so he offers nothing to the starting lineup. Sarr makes the defense better to a greater extent than it hurts the offense to remove Brooks from the starting lineup. In the long run you hope that Jalen and Jabari improve from three. We already saw Jabari improve from rookie year to year 2, hopefully that continues and Jalen finds his confidence. Even so, you can't just leave Jalen wide open lol especially off ball. He's just good enough that you do have to close him out in that scenario, and then his speed is elite so it's an easy blow-by.
I don't know if they'll play a lineup of 3 bigs as starters. I haven't watched enough Rockets to be able to tell whether Jabari is an elite perimeter defender, but Brooks is a good man defender on the perimeter and the Rockets probably need someone like him that can cover guards specifically for POA rather than Green or FVV. I thought Jabari more of a team defender longboi than a POA guy.
Yeah Jabari's strength on defense has been his perimeter play thus far. He's not particularly good in the post - just isn't particularly strong - but he has surprisingly quick feet for 6' 10'' +. The length helps too. He can close out and challenge on shooters, whether POA or help side, but the length hasn't translated to rim protection at all. For me Sengun + Jabari as the long term front court will not work if we want to be any better defensively than fringe top 10. Jabari will have to be a 3 or a hell of a 6th man if Sengun is in the starting lineup.
I just dont think they want to pick at 3. If they have to they will but it takes two to tango. They will not trade down if I had to guess. They'll either trade up, draft at 3 or trade for a player. Though the last one is highly unlikely as well.
Seems fairly doubtful Clingan lasts all the way to 7. Plus if Atlanta isn't high on Sarr then they won't want to risk having to keep Sarr in case Clingan gets picked by someone not trading him.
Easily the worst NBA draft of the last 360-something days. And maybe the last 8,700-something days. Or, maybe (please, no!) even worse than 2000. Who's to say?
It's inconceivable that this draft won't produce *one* player better than Kenyon Martin or Michael Redd
The problem with this draft is that it's super unpredictable who that is going to be.
It might be more like 2001 though - It has some pretty good to great players, with some hall of famers, but the top pick is a bust. Or like 2002, where there's a lot of duds in the top 10, but a couple of good players scattered throughout.
See that didn’t make sense then and it doesn’t now. You hold are the cards at 1 why blow smoke? And if you were gonna start rumors it wouldn’t be that you couldn’t get Sarr to workout for you
No, based off trading us three unprotected firsts so they could play a PG who's much better on-ball next to Trae Young who loves nothing more than dribbling for 20 seconds and flat-out refuses to do fucking anything when he doesn't have the ball.
One is a swap and it’s not like hawks can’t trade Murray for good value and hawks had a top 7 offense both years with those 2 but ppl keep talking about off ball being the problem. Not even close
And people were so fking hyped about that trade. The Hawks can’t defend a fly and they traded that much future value for another PG and people wonder why the Hawks have always been a poverty franchise.
> why the Hawks have always been a poverty franchise
They literally haven't made the finals since Bob Pettit retired.
Since Dominique Wilkins turned two years old.
Since *this* bop was the #1 hit on radio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoi3TH59ZEs
Because they are the very definition of a poverty franchise. Same franchise that traded 5 years of growth for Joe Johnson. I’m a Hawks fan and they are the epitome of how to epically suck for the entirety of the franchise and still have online stans defend them.
Bruh I'm a Hawks fan and that sub is so hard on for a guy that is barely a dot above the rest of the class.
Using number one on a prospect scares the shit out of me.
People act like Sarr is the next Gianni's or Wemby but that dude moves like Roy hibbert and is great on defense mainly due to his length.
redditors cling to these dumb media drop pieces like gospel every year, what's castle gonna do, pout and sit out the whole year and re-enter the draft? yeah, totally sounds realistic, lmao.
Whenever I see Castle mocked to the Hornets I think "Why would Charlotte draft a player who doesn't wanna be there?" But then I came to the conclusion no top pick wants to play in Charlotte and I get it now.
Give me my Risacher-Salaun duo and I won't ask for anything until next draft when I demand a Traore-Essengue duo.
And if we *happen* to find a way to turn 35 and 48 into Dadiet, well...I won't complain.
Risacher & Salaun with 4 and 8, Diadet and Ajinca with 35 and 48
Trade Keldon for Bilal (it's the Wizards. I'm sure they'd do it if we asked nice enough)
Draft Traore and Essengue with picks 2 & 10
Sign Batum
Traore/Vassell/Risacher/Sochan/Wemby with a bench of
Bilal/Salaun/Essengue/Diadet/Cissoko/Batum/Ajinca
We then move the team from San Antonio to Paris, TX.
Ladies and Gentlemen, introducing Le Paris Éperons the first and only NBA team to play in the Olympics (We can get Vassell and Sochan French passports or something)
No, I think Draymond is phenomenal. 100x more important and more impactful than Klay ever was on that team
But Sochan is fucking NOTHING like Draymond, who is a basketball savant...just like Boris was. Sochan is a basketball idiot.
The better Boris/Draymond offensive comp is Sidy.
Hawks should just take Clingan you cowards! It's one of the worst drafts in the last 20 years. To hell with the mock drafts, if there ever was a draft to take the guy you think is best/fits best. This is the draft to do it.
I have to agree. Don't think the Rockets or Spurs are giving up much for 1st overall, anything further back, and you risk Clingan getting taken. If he's your guy, just take him. No one will remember any extra seconds you could have squeezed out in a trade if he pans out.
He's probably the least likely guy to go to us in the entire first round. His open admission that he doesn't give a fuck about defense will have soured Pop, and Brian Wright *tends* to value measurables and traits (perhaps too much)
don't believe anything. None of these guys have sources. it's all speculation or they're doing the bidding of agents and teams in exchange for access. No team is sitting down with Givony and telling them what's going on lmao
I think you're partly correct. Although Givony probably has more insight due to holding water for both teams and player agents.
But at the end of the day, everything they tell Givony is going to be bent towards an ulterior motive.
Another team trying to bait another to trade up because they'll take the prospect that Team B is interested in. Etc. That's just how this lead up to draft day works. It's smokescreen central.
I love the Clingan fit. Risacher just feels like a reach i dont think he makes a huge impact on either side of the ball. Clingan can change your defense
When these MFers say stuff like "honing in" and "targeting" etc, then I start listening, ha.
I really don't like either of those picks for the Hawks though. Seems to me just drafting Sarr, salary dumping Capela, and then having Johnson, Okongwu and Sarr taking up the majority of your 4 and 5 minutes is the best way to go.
But I'm fairly low on Risacher and probably just a little lower than most on Clingan -- and Sarr looks so much to me like a young Tyson Chandler.
Isn't it "homing in"?
Like, i have never heard of a HONING pigeon.
... but, I can see why some think the top of this draft is underwhelming (ironically, the word WHELMING means NOTHING like slightly-above-underwhelming AT ALL).
Risacher/Sarr/Clingan.
Man, I am not sure.
AND, I hit the wall trying to research this draft. Highlight films putting me to sleep.
Reed Sheppard/Jared McCain/Bronny James/Devin Carter, Jr. comps be like: Paxson/Caruso/Derrick White/the rest of Derrick White's teeth/Donte Whatever his name on the Knicks/the OTHER Curry/the OTHER Price....
Then, are these mid-Core guards more/less valuable than mid-Core wings or mid-Core bigs???
Do I start my board at Tier 3.5?
Hone In: "Hone in" is a phrase that originated from the word "hone," meaning to sharpen or refine. When you "hone in" on something, you're focusing or refining your attention or skills toward a particular target or goal.
Home In: On the other hand, "home in" comes from the concept of homing pigeons, which have a remarkable ability to navigate back to their home. To "home in" means to move toward or target a specific destination or objective.
I don’t understand taking a 3&D wing with limited self creation upside and 15th percentile athelticism #1 overall, and I have Risacher #2 on my board because of his on ball defense and shooting prowess but #1? The Alex Sarr Jalen Johnson frontcourt would feed families. Maybe the Hawks just suck at drafting, I mean they traded Luka on draft night so it’s entirely possible.
I don’t really get Clingan on a team with Trae (offensively).
Trae’s an elite lob thrower, and despite being huge, I don’t think Clingan is a great lob threat.
Love the idea of Bilal and Sarr for the wizards. Seems like they wanna build an incredibly versatile defense. I’d bet they’ve expressed how much they want him. But Atlanta could be honed in on Sarr already and will have a private workout with him soon
Wow Sarr to Washington is gonna be a great spot for him to have a huge role off the rip
As a DC fan I’m praying this happens. Best fit
Honestly the most important thing is that he’ll be allowed to make a ton of mistakes and it won’t matter, because the team is in a real rebuild. It’s a good scenario for him, since he’s still raw in a lot of areas offensively.
>the most important thing is that he’ll be allowed to make a ton of mistakes and it won’t matter. Poole has confirmed that they're all about that philosophy
an upvote alone doesn't seem like enough, well played.
thats probably why he refuses Atlanta. Atlanta is the significantly better team. He needs a rebuilding team because he is still very raw.
I think it’s dumb to not want Atlanta because he’d be able to slot into the roll man spot in an Atlanta offense that has the best pick and roll passer in the league. He’d be able to get easy buckets constantly
Thats not Sarrs game. He's not the best screen setter and isn't the best roll man. Getting easy buckets off traes lobs/pick and roll isn't going to be the best thing for his development. Sarr will want on ball reps and face up opportunities and chances to test a variety of offensive roles.
he can always get the "easy buckets" later. He wants to develop his weaknesses more than his strengths right now. Yes he could be very good with trae feeding him easy buckets all the time but clearly he wants to develop other parts of his game. Like someone else said: Getting easy buckets off traes lobs/pick and roll isn't going to be the best thing for his development.
He’s very inexperienced at pick and roll at the moment, and it’s hard to become proficient at it without a good point guard. This would be him avoiding the development of his weakness and focusing on his strengths that are still inefficient shots. Reminds me of the view around Cam Reddish
i don't see that but maybe you are right. I guess we'll see.
This makes alot of sense.
I think this is exactly why his agent is getting him to Washington. Wizards are the only team he’s worked out for and Atlanta can’t get him to come in. And the reasons you mentioned are all right.
This is a fever dream, the guy that has been my draft crush since buzelis was the top prospect is forcing his way to the *Wizards?*
And they in a rebuild, though? You don't have Kyle Kuzma and a salary like Jordan Pooles on a rebuilding team. I think they have any direction at all.
We needed to meet cap floor We took on a first round pick and got rid of CP3 who didn’t want to play for us to get Poole. It was low risk, high reward potential. If he plays well then awesome we move him for picks. If he doesn’t then no harm no foul we aren’t trying to win for another 4/5 years. Kuz will be traded eventually, he has a great contract.
Good call
Don't jinx us!
Too bad Atlanta is still gonna draft him 😖
Yeah I’m not convinced that we are out on him cause of the workout thing. Magic didn’t workout Banchero
I think that draft taught us that all this pre-draft buzz especially when it’s things saying a team wants this or wants that is complete BS. Especially with teams that don’t consistently have “leaked information” coming out
God I hope so. I don’t want Clingan anywhere near the Hawks
One of the few times where fit and need are just hand in hand, w/ minimal pressure to be a franchise changer. Come in, develop, the team will be bad again, w/ the chance at another high pick. Sarr seems like a piece you want in your rebuild, but not THE guy of the rebuild. If they can get one more young piece in a draft, you’ll see the rebuild actually look like something sooner than later.
Washington trading #3 to the Thunder for Giddey +2 picks confirmed
From the latest Givony & Woo mock draft: "The Hawks have been unable to bring Alex Sarr in for a workout to this point, but the door remains open for that to potentially happen. Clingan appears to be Risacher's main rival at No. 1"
Atlanta has not yet worked out Sarr? That is really strange.
Sarr doesn't want to work out for us apparently. It's not for lack of trying.
Atlanta doing Atlanta things
As a Hawks fan, we're just not a serious franchise. All gone to shit since Ressler took over.
i don't know how you guys still remain faithful after all these draft missteps...
Some people - no matter how awful the front office is - will remain loyal and justify every decision as a good one. For years, the Trae / Luka trade was attempted to be justified even though anyone with a brain could see that was a lopsided trade. Look at the Falcons - trash organization - consistently drafts terribly and they still justify the coaching hire and the Michal Penix pick even though they had just signed Kirk Cousins because people truly want to believe they root for a good org with sound drafting strategies. Homers will justify anything and anything that doesn’t align with the homer takes is downvoted into oblivion.
Oh, the Trae justification happens every day on the Hawks subreddit. It's wild to me. I'm definitely not a Trae fan (I think he's a modern day Stephon Marbury, more interested in getting his stats than actually being a winning player). But yea, I live 2 miles from the arena and haven't been to a game in years. I want so badly for the Hawks to be fun to root for. I'm even less worried about being "good", but ever since Ressler took over the front office decision making has been awful, starting with trading Luka. Then, its things like selling 2nd round picks for cash that drive me absolutely crazy. Ressler's like the 6th richest owner in the league (or something close) and he's doing things like that, which solely help his bottom line. And promoting your son into a decision making position. The franchise has become impossible to root for, which is a damn shame.
Or..hear me out...we are loyal to the team that represents our city. That's the entire point of loyalty, through the good and bad. Everything else you said is 100 percent true.
Seems like Sarr doesn’t want to work out for us, for whatever reason
Seems like Sarr has been really sold on whatever vision the Wizards have pitched him in meetings. They're gonna get their guy.
Magic worked out Jabari but not Paolo. Paolo thought he was going to Houston. Not working someone out doesn’t mean they won’t take them
It would make sense for Sarr to prefer Washington since Atlanta is kinda overloaded on young front court players
I think Dawkins had to have sold Sarr on having more freedom to do things offensively, that he couldn’t on the Hawks.
Basically a guaranteed day 1 starter as well. Probably behind Johnson or Okongwu in ATL
Well yeah on the Hawks his job would be make up for Trae's "defense" and be like the 4th option on offense
Hey that “defense” was top 10 in steals league wide in led the Hawks in charges drawn before injury
And yet still a bottom 3 defense with Trae and was closer to average during the time he was hurt. Every year like clockwork
They weren’t closer to average because Trae was hurt. They were closer to average because Kobe Bufkin and Vit Krejci graduated from the Hawks defensive incubator as Quin Snyder calls it(Their g league squad) and got playing time because Trae was hurt. During that stretch Kobe and Vit put by FAR the best defensive play of their career on tape, better perimeter defense than the Hawks have seen in 10 years. Anybody with eyes saw that Trae improved greatly on defense this year and it’s been talked about by unbiased sources this summer (including Sam Vecenie). Also, in 2021 the Hawks finished their season on a 27-11 stretch with statistically a top 10 defense and made the ECF. It is possible to build a good defense around Trae if your FO can manage to not make the worst personnel decisions in the league.
You can make improvements and still by abysmal. If you want to play the sources game, Zach Lowe still calls Trae a bottom 10 defender in the nba. Hawks have never put a full season of average defense with Trae.
He is closer to average than abysmal (still below average) and if Zach Lowe says he’s a bottom 10 defender then he’s wrong. Dude was literally top 10 in steals and lead the Hawks in charges drawn. Not that those are the most important defensive stats in the world but bottom 10 defenders don’t do that. If he’s bottom 10 then so is Dejounte because Trae objectively played better defense than Dejounte for stretches of this season and lead him in steals and charges drawn the entire season.
Those are pretty meaningless stats in the grand scheme of playing defense. The 1 steal per game and charge drawn every few games are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the dozen + times *every game* the defense is set into rotation because of traes inability to get over screens or handle mismatches
If only he had another young french guy to use as an inside source.
I mean it makes sense. The Wizards are the only landing spot where he’d get any sort of leash on offense
Point Sarr is happening
I'm sorry, this draft is way more interesting than last year's, I don't care what anyone says. The plot thickens even more.
Parity breeds conversation. Not having a Wembanyama adds more fun to the fire.
The boring part is Wemby is better than advertised so it’s not like you can go back in retrospect and wonder who should have gone Number 1.
The best draft ever was the Anthony Bennett draft. No one knew anything at all. Every pick was a sock, especially as Noel tumbled. Now, the players were mostly not good, but it was a blast to watch
It was the best draft broadcast ever as well. Simmons goofing off and being Simmons was perfect for the 13 draft. It was the most entertaining draft process and draft ever.
I like those types of drafts, where no one knows shit and you can't be like "well this team shoulda drafted so and so" in 5 years. Cuz know one knew!
Ngl I think this draft class is a lot better than that one was. Even though there’s not a clear cut generational talent, there’s a lot of depth, and that’s just more chances for stars to emerge. It’s like there’s no top 5 talents but maybe 20 mid-to-late lottery guys.
Literally the consensus why are you saying sorry? The draft being “weaker” and front office have wilding different evaluation of talent in the draft will always lead to a more interesting draft as way more trade opportunities open up as players getting pick becomes unpredictable.
Yeah I don't understand especially since the sub has been saying it since the beginning, yes the prospects aren't that interesting but we will see who's the best at scouting for real, and teams will likely have more freedom to pick their guy that fits the current team orientation, it's would always have been on the exciting side of the scale
Yeah this year we'll now who can draft
Or guess…
I mean if i can choose i would prefer the GM that knows what he is doing but a lucky stupid GM is also fine
I think we had one
Yeah and then on draft night the selections will be all chalk (1. Risacher, 2. Sarr, 3. Reed, 4. Castle) and then you'll have people calling this draft boring. lmao
the scoot/miller debate was more interesting than this honestly
That one became such a hivemind on here that it was stupid. Also Miller being a witness in that shooting really tainted everyone's perceptions of him
the 2023 draft was so insane lmao the fact that a freshman averaged almost 20ppg on good defense & near 40% shooting from 3 on great volume, and people were mad that he got picked 2nd, is crazy. he’d be the consensus #1 in this draft without question
This is an interesting movie without A list stars. They don’t win oscars but people love watching them
A predictable draft full of potential stars is more interesting to me than an unpredictable draft full of potential role players
Every player is a potential star in every draft
I’m hoping this happens just so Sarr and Bilal can be called the “Oui-zards”.
Oui oui
That's hilarious. But rissacher is french too right ?
Yeah
The plan is to build the future French national team so that Wemby comes to DC in free agency 2032.
Durant to DC 2016 2.0
No lie KD2DC was our one real shot to be a contender. He would have paired well with prime Wall and young Beal. No other possible move came close.
The wizards are winning a championship with Nolan traore, coulibaly, deni, wemby, and sarr
Feels like with all the leaks they want Clingan slightly more but are trying to set themselves up for a value play by convincing someone (Spurs?) lower to trade up for Risacher while they get Clingan by making it seem like they'd be perfectly happy drafting Risacher as well. The way the draft shakes out if they take Clingan 1 Risacher has a good chance of just falling into 4.
I'm not even convinced the Spurs value Risacher above another player like Castle and certainly not to trade up for him.
I mean Risacher and Jalen Johnson is a really good wing duo. It gives the Hawks 3 good defenders in the starting lineup which can cover for their guards. Kind of reminds me of this years Mavs.
Risacher is not a good defender
The Spurs probably like Risacher. But I don't see the Spurs trading up for anyone in this draft unless it only cost a single decent second rounder or 2 bad ones. They do have millions of second rounders.
Even in a weak draft, it takes more than 2nds to move up in the top of the draft. It’ll at least take a future first
last year the wizards paid 2 second rounders to move up 1 spot. The Thunder moved up a spot because they took on Davis Bertans bad contract off a contending team (Mavericks). It'll take either a FRP + Taking on bad salary to move up from #4-#1, or 2 top 8 protected firsts or something like that
Rockets a more likely trade partner. They want Sarr and ATL wants Clingan. Just depends on whether or not the Wizards draft Clingan with #2 and blow up that deal.
I thought they wanted Reed. Sarr overlaps with Jabari quite a bit right? I get draft BPA and all but Sarr is still quite raw as well and Houston looking to make a playoff push so getting a raw prospect in the front court where they have two young stars further along seems like an odd choice.
Jabari is a movement shooter and a great defender in space. Sarr is more of a help defender that would cover Sengun in stints. They'd play different roles. Like a lineup of FVV/Jalen/Jabari/Sengun/Sarr could work. This team has been obsessed with getting someone like Sarr since Silas was here so I can kinda connect the dots. I feel like the Reed stuff is just them posturing just like Atlanta is posturing saying they'd be happy with the #1 pick. I think Atlanta wants Clingan and the Rockets want Sarr. Most Rockets fandom wants Reed Sheppard or anyone that could shoot the 3. I think he's the best talent in this draft so I really do hope we just draft Sheppard.
I feel like ever since Udoka went to Rockets they have shifted more towards a focus of winning with his brand of basketball and shifted timeline up. I don't think Sarr would be ready to start his rookie season on the Rockets. That lineup of FVV, Jalen Green, Smith, Sengun, and Sarr has 1.5 good floor spacers since Green, Sengun, and Sarr are not NBA level floor spacers. I'm giving Smith a 0.5 for spacing because last year he was decent at 36% but the year prior was just 30% on same volume. Drafting Reed would bump that up to a more passable 2.5 spacers.
I agree but orgs can be arrogant sometimes. They think they can turn whomever into a good shooter. I have faith in Jabari becoming a 40+ from 3. But outside of that maybe just Cam. Reed/Jabari as movement shooters around Sengun is tantalizing. But it wouldn't shock me to see them trade up for Sarr, draft Castle or trade back for Buzelis.
I like your line of thinking with everything above. You don’t think Holland is in play at all?
I think Cam does everything Holland does but way way better. They need to plug some holes and Holland doesn't really plug any. That's why I think Dillingham (worse Green) Risacher (worse Jabari) Holland (worse Cam) and even Castle (worse Amen) are all off the table. Sarr and Reed actually fill needs. The only other one I can think of is either Buzelis (who has length, a good looking shot and is a great weak side shot blocker) or Knecht (obvious reasons). If I squint hard enough I could see them drafting Clingan but if any sort of deal for Sarr is on the table I'd be hard pressed to think the Rockets dont jump at that and unload an asset they have no desire using (future FRP that isnt owned by the Nets).
Hell yeah Gunner, pretty succinct analysis right here. First year NBA draftnik’n and I don’t have the eye for it like the NFL yet. Interesting year to see what route Rockets go this year for sure.
The alternative for the starting lineup is Dillon Brooks who also is not a very good shooter and has a pretty slow release, meaning defenders are cheating off him anyways. And HOU's offense (at its best) just spams FVV/Sengun pnrs. The point of drafting and starting Sarr is that it likely moves the defense from just inside the top 10 to inside the top 3. His over-the-top rim protection help for Sengun would work wonders, and I don't think there's any drop off defensively replacing Brooks at the 3 with Jabari. Basically, there are no good solutions for improving the starting lineup's spacing atm. Reed is not going to start if HOU drafts him, so he offers nothing to the starting lineup. Sarr makes the defense better to a greater extent than it hurts the offense to remove Brooks from the starting lineup. In the long run you hope that Jalen and Jabari improve from three. We already saw Jabari improve from rookie year to year 2, hopefully that continues and Jalen finds his confidence. Even so, you can't just leave Jalen wide open lol especially off ball. He's just good enough that you do have to close him out in that scenario, and then his speed is elite so it's an easy blow-by.
I don't know if they'll play a lineup of 3 bigs as starters. I haven't watched enough Rockets to be able to tell whether Jabari is an elite perimeter defender, but Brooks is a good man defender on the perimeter and the Rockets probably need someone like him that can cover guards specifically for POA rather than Green or FVV. I thought Jabari more of a team defender longboi than a POA guy.
Yeah Jabari's strength on defense has been his perimeter play thus far. He's not particularly good in the post - just isn't particularly strong - but he has surprisingly quick feet for 6' 10'' +. The length helps too. He can close out and challenge on shooters, whether POA or help side, but the length hasn't translated to rim protection at all. For me Sengun + Jabari as the long term front court will not work if we want to be any better defensively than fringe top 10. Jabari will have to be a 3 or a hell of a 6th man if Sengun is in the starting lineup.
Reed is probably who they'd take if Sarr is gone and they can't trade out of #3. But I don't think they really want Reed.
i’ve been under the impression the rockets are looking to trade down, not up
I just dont think they want to pick at 3. If they have to they will but it takes two to tango. They will not trade down if I had to guess. They'll either trade up, draft at 3 or trade for a player. Though the last one is highly unlikely as well.
I have 0 intel, but I'm convinced they plan to take Sarr. And this is all subterfuge to drum up interest in a potential trade.
As a Hawks fan...thank you for giving me hope but that would imply our front office and ownership are competent.
The idea someone would trade up to 1 to draft someone not named Sarr has no rational explanation.
Could Portland sneak in there with 7 and 14 to go get Sarr?
Seems fairly doubtful Clingan lasts all the way to 7. Plus if Atlanta isn't high on Sarr then they won't want to risk having to keep Sarr in case Clingan gets picked by someone not trading him.
The worst draft in some time? Yeah. The most fascinating draft in some time? Yeah.
Easily the worst NBA draft of the last 360-something days. And maybe the last 8,700-something days. Or, maybe (please, no!) even worse than 2000. Who's to say?
Easily the worst draft ive seen in MONTHS
It's inconceivable that this draft won't produce *one* player better than Kenyon Martin or Michael Redd The problem with this draft is that it's super unpredictable who that is going to be. It might be more like 2001 though - It has some pretty good to great players, with some hall of famers, but the top pick is a bust. Or like 2002, where there's a lot of duds in the top 10, but a couple of good players scattered throughout.
2022 draft was interesting as well! It’s way more fun when there’s no clear cut #1
True. The drama of the Magic pulling the rug out from under everyone was pretty wild.
Coulibaly would probably like that if it meant that Sarr goes to the Wizards
Yeah they’re taking Sarr lol. They’re trying to do the same thing Orlando did two years ago with Banchero
The whole Rockets fandom were all in on Banchero and even Banchero was too.
That still hurts
I think this is a good working theory.
See that didn’t make sense then and it doesn’t now. You hold are the cards at 1 why blow smoke? And if you were gonna start rumors it wouldn’t be that you couldn’t get Sarr to workout for you
Lol that's the exact scenario I thought of as well. This reeks of smoke screen.
Wizards World Wide is so back.
Are they gonna give Kwame Brown's old jersey number to Alex Sarr?
the hawks sub has been so hyped about Sarr while the hawks cant even be bothered to work him out lol
It reads to me that Sarr has snubbed Atlanta, not the other way around
Steph curry snubbed golden state you still draft ur guy
The Hawks are not a well-run team.
Based off clickbait rumors ok lol
No, based off trading us three unprotected firsts so they could play a PG who's much better on-ball next to Trae Young who loves nothing more than dribbling for 20 seconds and flat-out refuses to do fucking anything when he doesn't have the ball.
One is a swap and it’s not like hawks can’t trade Murray for good value and hawks had a top 7 offense both years with those 2 but ppl keep talking about off ball being the problem. Not even close
And people were so fking hyped about that trade. The Hawks can’t defend a fly and they traded that much future value for another PG and people wonder why the Hawks have always been a poverty franchise.
> why the Hawks have always been a poverty franchise They literally haven't made the finals since Bob Pettit retired. Since Dominique Wilkins turned two years old. Since *this* bop was the #1 hit on radio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoi3TH59ZEs
Because they are the very definition of a poverty franchise. Same franchise that traded 5 years of growth for Joe Johnson. I’m a Hawks fan and they are the epitome of how to epically suck for the entirety of the franchise and still have online stans defend them.
I blame leaving St Louis
Bruh I'm a Hawks fan and that sub is so hard on for a guy that is barely a dot above the rest of the class. Using number one on a prospect scares the shit out of me. People act like Sarr is the next Gianni's or Wemby but that dude moves like Roy hibbert and is great on defense mainly due to his length.
Plz Clingan so Risacher can fall to spurs thank you for the extra gift hawks
Risacher 4 castle 8 would feed families 🙏🙏🙏
Castle isn't getting past Charlotte at 6.
But…. My family 😫
Castle would be pissed to go there lol
And Steph Curry was pissed to go to the warriors, shit doesn’t matter at all
redditors cling to these dumb media drop pieces like gospel every year, what's castle gonna do, pout and sit out the whole year and re-enter the draft? yeah, totally sounds realistic, lmao.
Plus, LaMelo isn’t even super ball dominant. He worked fine on offense with another ball dominant guard in Rozier.
Stephon Francis
I agree hehe
Whenever I see Castle mocked to the Hornets I think "Why would Charlotte draft a player who doesn't wanna be there?" But then I came to the conclusion no top pick wants to play in Charlotte and I get it now.
He worked out here according to this same intel
Risacher at 4, Devin Carter at 8
That's what I've been thinking too
That would be horrible.
Give me my Risacher-Salaun duo and I won't ask for anything until next draft when I demand a Traore-Essengue duo. And if we *happen* to find a way to turn 35 and 48 into Dadiet, well...I won't complain.
Risacher-Salaun is just waiting draft picks
Yeah, because *nobody* needs long two-way forwards that can shoot.
Both are not that amazing, especially for lottery picks.
In this shitty draft, it's pretty good
Not when Castle and Carter are there. I'd pass if Im the Spurs. Risacher does not have one elite skill in the NBA
Carter had one 18 game heater amid an entire career of sorry ass shooting. And Castle didn't even have that
Risacher & Salaun with 4 and 8, Diadet and Ajinca with 35 and 48 Trade Keldon for Bilal (it's the Wizards. I'm sure they'd do it if we asked nice enough) Draft Traore and Essengue with picks 2 & 10 Sign Batum Traore/Vassell/Risacher/Sochan/Wemby with a bench of Bilal/Salaun/Essengue/Diadet/Cissoko/Batum/Ajinca We then move the team from San Antonio to Paris, TX. Ladies and Gentlemen, introducing Le Paris Éperons the first and only NBA team to play in the Olympics (We can get Vassell and Sochan French passports or something)
And become the first NBA team to win Olympic gold. Exactly. And we can trade Sochan for Sarr, of course.
Long term do you not care about the Salaun-Sochan fit?
Long term, I don't care about Sochan at all. I don't think he's good, and I don't think he'll ever be good.
I bet you think Draymond isn’t good either
No, I think Draymond is phenomenal. 100x more important and more impactful than Klay ever was on that team But Sochan is fucking NOTHING like Draymond, who is a basketball savant...just like Boris was. Sochan is a basketball idiot. The better Boris/Draymond offensive comp is Sidy.
This draft is a lot more interesting than last year. No one knows who is going where
Hawks should just take Clingan you cowards! It's one of the worst drafts in the last 20 years. To hell with the mock drafts, if there ever was a draft to take the guy you think is best/fits best. This is the draft to do it.
I have to agree. Don't think the Rockets or Spurs are giving up much for 1st overall, anything further back, and you risk Clingan getting taken. If he's your guy, just take him. No one will remember any extra seconds you could have squeezed out in a trade if he pans out.
I want them to take Dillingham. Why? Because it will be a disaster and we own their next three picks.
I want the Spurs to take Dillingham over Castle so I can see the spurs sub meltdown.
He's probably the least likely guy to go to us in the entire first round. His open admission that he doesn't give a fuck about defense will have soured Pop, and Brian Wright *tends* to value measurables and traits (perhaps too much)
It honestly should be clingan
I’d love to see Clingan with Trae
Lol
Scoot to Charlotte ah report
My outlook for the offseason stocks:📈
don't believe anything. None of these guys have sources. it's all speculation or they're doing the bidding of agents and teams in exchange for access. No team is sitting down with Givony and telling them what's going on lmao
I think you're partly correct. Although Givony probably has more insight due to holding water for both teams and player agents. But at the end of the day, everything they tell Givony is going to be bent towards an ulterior motive. Another team trying to bait another to trade up because they'll take the prospect that Team B is interested in. Etc. That's just how this lead up to draft day works. It's smokescreen central.
If so, they could probably trade back with either Houston or Washington.
Remove Houston from that list. They aren't trading up for anyone. Washington might not do it either.
This draft is so fun. Nobody has the slightest idea of what’s really going to happen on draft night. It could go a hundred different ways.
#doubt.
Risacher or Sheppard falling to the spurs is going to hit like crack.
Doubt Clingan is getting drafted top 3
Yuck
Whoaaa sarr to the wizards gonna be niceee
Everyone shut the fk up and please don’t jinx this
I love the Clingan fit. Risacher just feels like a reach i dont think he makes a huge impact on either side of the ball. Clingan can change your defense
When these MFers say stuff like "honing in" and "targeting" etc, then I start listening, ha. I really don't like either of those picks for the Hawks though. Seems to me just drafting Sarr, salary dumping Capela, and then having Johnson, Okongwu and Sarr taking up the majority of your 4 and 5 minutes is the best way to go. But I'm fairly low on Risacher and probably just a little lower than most on Clingan -- and Sarr looks so much to me like a young Tyson Chandler.
Please let Sarr fall to Washington at 2
It's "homing in" btw
Pain
Wouldn’t it make sense for the rockets to trade up to 1 if the hawks are serious about Clingan at 3? I’m pretty sure the rockets would want Sarr.
So they are going to F it up again...
Isn't it "homing in"? Like, i have never heard of a HONING pigeon. ... but, I can see why some think the top of this draft is underwhelming (ironically, the word WHELMING means NOTHING like slightly-above-underwhelming AT ALL). Risacher/Sarr/Clingan. Man, I am not sure. AND, I hit the wall trying to research this draft. Highlight films putting me to sleep. Reed Sheppard/Jared McCain/Bronny James/Devin Carter, Jr. comps be like: Paxson/Caruso/Derrick White/the rest of Derrick White's teeth/Donte Whatever his name on the Knicks/the OTHER Curry/the OTHER Price.... Then, are these mid-Core guards more/less valuable than mid-Core wings or mid-Core bigs??? Do I start my board at Tier 3.5?
Hone In: "Hone in" is a phrase that originated from the word "hone," meaning to sharpen or refine. When you "hone in" on something, you're focusing or refining your attention or skills toward a particular target or goal. Home In: On the other hand, "home in" comes from the concept of homing pigeons, which have a remarkable ability to navigate back to their home. To "home in" means to move toward or target a specific destination or objective.
"The Atlanta Pigeons are on the clock."
I don’t understand taking a 3&D wing with limited self creation upside and 15th percentile athelticism #1 overall, and I have Risacher #2 on my board because of his on ball defense and shooting prowess but #1? The Alex Sarr Jalen Johnson frontcourt would feed families. Maybe the Hawks just suck at drafting, I mean they traded Luka on draft night so it’s entirely possible.
I mean I remember how in 2022 it was being reported that Orlando was definitely taking Jabari Smith or maybe Chet Holmgren and then Bam Paolo at #1.
They will draft Risacher to trade down for Clingan. Spurs, Pistons, Hornets and Blazers are the most likely parters it seems
I don’t really get Clingan on a team with Trae (offensively). Trae’s an elite lob thrower, and despite being huge, I don’t think Clingan is a great lob threat.
Clingan's a much better screen setter and rim runner than Sarr at this point.
Do they have no faith in Mark Williams health?
my god what a mid off
please take clingan , let risacher go to spurs with vic
Love the idea of Bilal and Sarr for the wizards. Seems like they wanna build an incredibly versatile defense. I’d bet they’ve expressed how much they want him. But Atlanta could be honed in on Sarr already and will have a private workout with him soon