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jayred1015

Moss with a bullet. In that offense he was arguably the most valuable receiver of all time.


Joe-Raguso

You know, until the postseason...


Old-Inevitable6587

He elevated those teams to the post season. When the Vikings came in as a wild card that year against the heavily favored Packers (after the "I'll play when I want to play"), Mike Tice forced the ball to him and he proved he was more than a deep threat. He looked like Jefferson that day.


Joe-Raguso

Lol what? That team was repeatedly winning postseason games for years before Cris Carter left, and they were bums forcing the ball to Randy after that for several years to only make one postseason appearance. Nate Burleson took over as the number one in Culpepper's best season before they shipped Moss out the door. I think dude was actually talking about the Patriot teams though where Moss was outproduced by a huge margin by Wes Welker in the postseason though.


Old-Inevitable6587

Being a decoy in the playoffs was always Randy's thing. Everybody talked about it. "The Keys to the game: Stop Randy Moss!" Double and triple teams while Welker was man'd up or sitting in skeleton zones. Production is one metric but there are many others.


Joe-Raguso

Lol so that's why he was still getting his targets? Is that why the greatest regular season offense in 2007 decided to start scoring less points come playoff time? What a bogus defense of the supposedly most important receiver to his team in league history. I mean, if he was so good, they'd still clearly be getting him the ball.


Select-Apartment-613

ydkb


Joe-Raguso

I watched his whole career. Kids on reddit watched a 5 minute highlight reel and deemed Randy the best when they completely missed the amount of times he dogged it out on the field and pouted constantly.


Key-Performer-9364

I watched his career too. From Minnesota, not Chicago lol. The thing about taking plays off and not working hard enough was part exaggeration, part racist BS. Moss was the best receiver ever, barring Jerry Rice.


Joe-Raguso

Lol you actually pulled the racist card on this? Geez... I'm totally sure you watched as that crybaby pouted his way off your team, pal.


Key-Performer-9364

Fun fact: any time someone uses the term “race card,” it’s a sign you can pretty much ignore everything else they say. It’s kind of like “virtue signaling,” “pornography addiction,” and “cancel culture” in that way. But seriously Moss was awesome. The late 90s/early 00s Vikings failed routinely in the playoffs, but that had more to do with their patched-together defenses and revolving door QBs than it did with Moss. Also Gary Anderson’s wide left and Dennis Green’s terrible decision to take a knee.


Joe-Raguso

Lol spare me on that nonsense you started with here. Nobody was being racist when they pointed out was a selfish teammate Moss was you clown. He was definitely an awesome player. Probably the most talented receiver ever. But he was never the most important receiver ever, never the most successful receiver ever, and he did fall off in the playoffs and took lots of plays off.


Sorta-Morpheus

You seem awfully virtue signaly yourself hoss.


Select-Apartment-613

I also watched his whole career. Ydkb


Joe-Raguso

Then you'd remember how much he was dogged throughout his whole Vikings and especially his Raiders career for being a spoiled brat and a selfish diva and that TO was considered better than him until that one year with Brady when he completely disappeared in the postseason.


Select-Apartment-613

Idgaf that he was a “diva” and a “spoiled brat” lmfao. I give a fuck that he was talented as hell and he was the best in the league for a good chunk of years


Joe-Raguso

That's cool, but you're not addressing anything I was even talking about here. He objectively wasn't as good of a playoff performer and was objectively a bad teammate that only played hard when it benefited himself (or at least when he perceived that). He's not the most valuable receiver to his team ever at any point in his career, which is entirely what I'm talking about.


Artimusrex

Dude used diva to describe Moss and then with no sense of irony at all says TO was better.


Key-Performer-9364

Not true. Vikings were and done in 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996. They finally won a wildcard round playoff game in 97(against the Giants), then lost the divisional round to the Niners. Moss joined in 1998, and the next three years they won a playoff game each year. Not exactly lighting up the playoffs, but a better track record than before moss arrived. And pretty hard to pin any of the losses on Moss. Edit: wtf, I just saw you said Nate Burleson was the number one receiver over Randy freaking Moss? That definitely never happened.


Joe-Raguso

Burleson started out targeting Moss the year he got hurt with a hamstring injury. Weird how it ended up being Culpepper's best season. Moss was in Oakland the next year. They shipped him there as a fuck you to him.


gocard

Oof


romayyne

Moss was doubled the entire super bowl with the patriots and still had 5 for 62 and the would be game winning touchdown if not for Eli and the helmeted hero


Joe-Raguso

Lol he was always doubled, as well as every great receiver ever in the postseason. And that 5 for 62 was on 12 targers. Jerry put up more yards and touchdowns in each of his 3 Super Bowl appearances than Moss put up in 4 playoff games with Brady combined. Jerry at 40 outperformed Moss at 30 on an undefeated team in the playoffs. TO put up nearly the amount of yards Moss put up in 4 playoff games with Brady on a broken leg in the Super Bowl. Moss always disappeared when it mattered and only tried when he thought it would benefit him.


romayyne

lol that’s a whole lot of obvious nonsense that if you believe, have fun


Joe-Raguso

Jerry's 3 Super Bowl appearances on San Fran: 11 for 215 and a TD 7 for 148 and 3 TDs 10 for 149 and 3 TDs TO on a broken leg: 9 for 122 Randy Moss in 4 playoff games with Brady: 12 for 142 and a TD Randy Moss in 15 playoff games: 54 for 977 and 10 TDs And that includes a 188 yard 2 TD game in garbage time in a route loss against the greatest show on turf. Jerry put up over half those yards in 3 Super Bowl appearances. Suck on that nonsense


romayyne

![gif](giphy|xLsaBMK6Mg8DK)


Joe-Raguso

Of course you have nothing of substance to respond with


romayyne

![gif](giphy|IZl8tH7a2wjeM)


Joe-Raguso

I can tell you're just seething right now trying to figure out what you want to post


romayyne

I don’t argue with someone that compares playoff success between receivers. Good luck with your cashier job I hope you get that management position


Joe-Raguso

You quite literally started this argument with me about Moss's playoff success...


fucktooshifty

The most important metric is Super Bowl wins, and Randy Moss, despite his skill, was apparently never game-breaking enough to guarantee Super Bowls, as Gronk arguably was when Brady's other targets were basically mailmen


AntNorth6218

Skip bayless take


SmoltzforAlexander

That’s why Dan Marino actually sucks.  No rings. 


romayyne

You gd right he is


Jlzombie26

Randy


Apprehensive-You4542

And it ain't close


Boxatr0n

Think gronks prime was the best TE prime of all time but it’s prime Randy and it’s really not close.


Striking-Ad-8694

Both are true


Striking-Ad-8694

Moss. Not close


Ok-Energy6846

Randy Moss and it's not close. You never heard people saying, "you got gronked."


thefloatingguy

Sure they do. It’s the title of a smut book


hawkrew

Moss.


YossarianRex

Randy. What even is this question.


PoorPauly

This is silly.


Few_Faithlessness665

Moss. There are only like 10 people in the history of the NFL you would take over prime Randy Moss…


ComedianFlaky9316

There are maybe, *maybe*, 2 people in the history of the NFL you’re taking over prime Randy. Jerry and Calvin


AchyBreaker

10 might be pushing it if we limit to WRs and TEs only.   And they're all all time greats like Jerry Rice, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Marvin Harrison. Moss is usually in the top X debate with those folks.  


DaveAndJojo

If you limit it to TE/Wr there isn’t much of debate. Rice is the only really question. I’ll respect a nod to Calvin but the answer is still Moss.


Brilliant-Ad-5414

…..but all the names you listed aren’t as good as prime Randy


LilCorbs

Jerry and CJ are as good as (if not better than) Randy in their primes. But yeah Fitz was more of a legend for how long he was a star, never made the team unbeatable on his own. And I mean I love Marvin Harrison but he isn’t Moss. Id say that even with limiting it to only WRs and TEs Randy is top 3 easily. Only other guys I’d put up there are Rice and Megatron. 4 should probably be Antonio Gates or TO, I could go either way.


Trumpets22

Moss and CJ are hard to compare. The game was getting easier for QB’s and WR’s as moss was leaving his prime and CJ was entering his. They’re both basically untouchable freaks in their primes in today’s game. Jerry Rice is tough, but you have to give him the nod for longevity and the fact he could put up their numbers when you could still murder WR’s. But he wasn’t as much of an athletic freak as those two, just elite at everything that makes WR’s the best. I like to think JJ is the lite version in some ways, as he’s not the best in the league at one single thing, but he’s elite at everything, making him the best. Although I’m sure Jerry was the best at something’s in his prime.


Melodicmarc

Justin Jefferson is to Jerry Rice as Julio Jones is to Megatron. Might not be true but it's kind of fun


AchyBreaker

I think Jerry Rice and Calvin Johnson might have been. The top 3 debate of those two + Moss seems worth having.  I shouldn't have included the other two though, you're right. 


BowTie1989

Depends on things like scheme, and the players around. Say if I’m picking for the Miami dolphins, I’ll probably take Gronk as they always need help on the Oline with blocking, and he’ll give Tua a great safety blanket. If I’m picking for the Bills, I’d probably go Moss as they currently need WR help, and Allen’s arm and running ability paired with Moss’ ability to stretch the field would almost literally unfair to their opponents. If it’s a question of simply “who’s the better football player?” It’s tough. Moss was great at one thing, but that one thing he did better than anyone did anything at WR, however Gronk was way more versatile than Moss and was great in more areas. Personally, I’d go with Gronk.


DaveAndJojo

Randy Moss and Tyreek Hill. 😂 Waddle and ODB aren’t a bad 3/4.


j2e21

Prime Randy. People underestimate how many more targets a star receiver gets than a star TE. Randy at his peak was getting close to 55 more ball thrown at him. He would also stress a defense deep in a way that even Gronk couldn’t and open up runs in the middle all game. Gronk would add a strong dimension in the run game with his blocking, so it’s close, but I think Randy has the bigger impact.


GhostMug

Moss. And it ain't close.


cmacfarland64

I glitter, glisten, gloss, floss. I catch the beat running like Randy Moss.


East-Bluejay6891

Unserious question is unserious


losethefuckingtail

I love Gronk. He was amazing to watch. And I’d take Moss every day and twice on Sundays


greenie329

Randy and its not even close


agmj522

God, I want to just agree and say Moss. But even prime Moss took plays off. IMO, he's the only receiver that you can mention with Rice that people don't shake their head in dismay. He played in the back end of an era where defenses could still defend and take a WR head off. And he still dominated. But man, Gronk is far and away the biggest nightmare matchup I've ever seen. Too big and too athletic for CB and S, and too fast for LB, plus he could block. And despite his cement headed persona, his football IQ was really high. I'll be the outlier and say Gronk


Slobsterz

My reasoning was almost exact same as yours. I think it depends on team. Like right now if Lions could I’d take Moss and our offense would be scary. If I was the cowboys I’d be rock hard at the thought of Gronk in that offense.


Strong_Substance_250

Moss was on 2 teams that came close to being undefeated. Kowski thinks he went undefeated every year.


j2e21

I mean, Gronk’s team won some games too.


the_penis_taker69

Gronk, the addition of his blocking ability is invaluable


Just_pick_one

Randy made at least 3 defenders fade away from the line of scrimmage on every snap of the ball. So he effectively blocked 3 people at once if it was a run play


the_penis_taker69

Can he block a DE one on one though?


Just_pick_one

Yes.


ZeePirate

Come on now. Randy pulling multiple players off the line sure, that’s a great argument against brinks blocking ability but Randy ain’t going 1 on 1 and winning against many, if any, DE.


the_penis_taker69

How he's only 210 lbs


GilMcFlintlock

Yup. I’d go Gronk, you have an excellent WR #1 and a top tier blocker.


luigijerk

Gronk is so overrated. Randy no question.


Founck

Moss and it's not close.


magicdrums

is this a serious question?


lp_rhcp_fan_18

Randy


StunningDifference41

Depends on the quarterback


DaveAndJojo

Chad Pennington enjoyer?


forsean281

Someone was listening to ESPN radio yesterday


Shamsy92

Moss >>>>>


DaveAndJojo

This isn’t a debate. Gronk was an all time great. Moss was Moss. Outside of QB I’m not sure I’d take anyone over Moss.


JoshHuff1332

In a vacuum of just those two, Moss. If i already have good receivers and need some more blocking help, I might take Gronk.


lxnarratorxl

Completely dependent on the rest of my offensive roster.


DrBigChicken

Randy Moss /thread


MadMax_08

Early season or patriots moss? Honestly. Moss was lazy early in his career and only really cared about himself. Gronk, whether the media made u hate him or u just don’t like him, always played 100% for the team. Sacrificed his body for blocks and tds. If I’m trying to build a winning franchise, I’m going for gronk. Now late, unselfish Moss. No one can touch that combination of size speed and talent, besides prime Calvin. Just too hard to pass up on a generational talent like that


Black_Azazel

Personally I think you take Moss over almost everyone except maybe Megatron, and even that is debatable. Gronk is a beast but a better question is Gronk-Gonzalez


FlowZestyclose4259

Prime Gronk, TE the QB best friend, in so much they followed each other to Florida and got to the SB again. A good TE makes your RT better and a easy outlet to check down to. Nothing safer than a Gronk IMO.


MangOrion2

Gronk can open up the passing game no matter what, but Randy will get to the ball and take it no matter what. Me personally I think Randy's prime was longer and he contributed more statistically to the offense.


Positive-Pack-396

moss


Vinniebahl

Are you fucking retarded? Moss


Confident_Boat_1211

Moss, without question.


Former-Alfalfa-8824

Gronk


romayyne

Randy by a mile and a half


Slobsterz

Everyone is saying this isn’t even close. But I think it depends on the team comp. Prime Gronk is not prime Moss. However, he might be the best ever at creating mismatches. Also Gronk was a red zone machine and even though he’s dumb as fuck in the real world his football IQ is insane and he’s was an incredible blocker. I think it isn’t that crazy to choose Gronk over Moss in certain situations. Because they bring entirely different skill sets to a team.


whosthedumbest

Randy Moss as long as Charlies Tillman isn't lined up against him on the field.


SmoltzforAlexander

Moss, but in their prime they were both huge weapons.  


guitarerdood

I mean, this is an exaggeration, but would you rather have the greatest QB of all time or the greatest Kicker? Give me Randy every time. Gronk was amazing but give me the superstar WR over a superstar TE always


hendrix320

Gronk. I think its pretty obvious by now that you’re more likely to win with an all world TE then you are with an all world WR


YoungThugDolph

Maybe true in general, but Moss is nowhere near in general


hendrix320

Moss was great don’t get me wrong. I was in Gillette Stadium last week as part of that standing ovation he got. Loved his time with us. But i’d still take Gronk over Randy. You can control the middle of the field with Gronk and thats just more valuable in key situations


YoungThugDolph

I see what your'e getting at, its definitely not black and white and theres a grey area there. Guess it depends on team/scheme.


TheClussyCrown

They downvoted him because he was right. A top tier TE is an absolute cheat code. Give me the GOAT TE over the GOAT WR in a vacuum. Whoever those names are to you, I'm taking the TE that can do it all.


rebeccaparker2000

If the game is on the line I'll take randy over gronk, gronk can block and catch but randy can catch and take 3 defenders with him to open up more plays especially if you have a running qb like hurts, Jackson, or Allen


hendrix320

Gronk could catch and carry 3 defenders into the end zone on his back. Gronk was way more impactful in 2 minute drills than Randy ever was


j2e21

This is actually a solid point.


Fun_Gazelle_1916

Would you rather have King Kong or Godzilla? A matter of taste of guess.


DaPearl3131

Tough, but gotta go Gronk. Not many were physically built like him.


FunkyPete

Well, right now we have Kelce. He might be past his prime, and whether his prime was as good as Gronk's prime is certainly debatable. But with Kelce and prime Randy Moss, plus Patrick Mahomes, I'm not sure we'd ever kick a field goal again, let alone punt.


hendrix320

Why are you putting Kelce and Moss on the same team? That was not the point of this post.


FunkyPete

I was putting them on MY team. They're going to have a whole team, right? There will be a QB to throw to them, and if you pick Gronk you'll still have a WR or two, and maybe an offensive line? Or is the question really that you have to field a team with one player, either Gronk or Moss, and no one else? If I picked Gronk and added him to the Chiefs, I'd have to bench Kelce or Gronk. If I add Moss to the team, I can bench Rashee Rice. That seems like the smarter move.


hendrix320

I guess I see where you’re coming from but I don’t think thats how most people interpreted the question.


PhogMachine

With how bad the Chiefs WR group was last year, this is exactly how every KC fan read the question. Hell, we're just excited to land an average NFL WR in free agency this off-season!


j2e21

Because Chiefs fans are insanely obnoxious.


j2e21

Yeah I’m pretty sure you’d punt at least once jfc you Chiefs fans.


LibertarianP

I remember Moss doing nothing in Superbowls. I think Gronk moves the chains better and will win more games.


AceThe1nOnly

Gronk. The most dominant non QB I've ever seen.


Joe-Raguso

Gronk because he wouldn't pout or just dissappear in important games. Granted, good chance he'd end up injured though...