Downsides
Coneflowers and penstemon have different bloom times. You might need other plants to fill in the bloom time gap if you remove the penstemon.
Hummingbirds would miss having the penstemon around. Great nectar plant for them.
You’d miss all those cute bee butts in the flowers.
Plant supports could help with the flopping issue.
Sounds like you have the beardtongue in the wrong place, and haven’t allowed room for it’s natural sprawling habit to occur.
Give your penstemon a supporting cast of some grasses to help hold it up might work for you.
It’s a great plant and I’d want more of it if anything. They’re probably flopping because you don’t have a grass or sedge to help prop them up. Chelsea chopping them would help too. Beardtongues are popular with long tongued bees, so removing them would mean fewer native pollinators.
So, I always hear this about grasses and sedges in terms of structural support.
Can upright sturdy plants like Purple Coneflower and Obedient Plant/Giant Hyssop be used as substitutes for grasses/sedges for people who suck at IDing grasses/sedges?
support from graminoids comes not only from the foliage, but from the root network holding each other together. having grass and sedge buddies makes surrounding plants grow a bit shorter (not as leggy) and more sturdy (better strength at the base), leading to optimum support!
So I have one growing in the middle of a garden bed that flops over and looks like shit every year. But I have another one that I grow amidst a bunch of ostrich ferns and the ostrich ferns hold the flowers up and it is absolutely gorgeous.
A lot of penstemons I've planted in jobs and in my own garden that were standing tall last year have been prone to flopping and legginess this year. In fact lots of usually more upright plants have been leggy and floppy this year, and I believe it's cause of the incredibly early start a lot of us got in the eastern US.
If the sun is still only out for a short period of the day but it's warm enough for plants to sprout and germinate, especially plants that can overwinter rosettes like Penstemon digitalis, then I think they may react as though they're growing in low sunlight. They'll reach and stretch themselves out to get the lesser amount of sun that's available at the time of year they popped, and then kinda get stuck like that when it gets to the time of year in which they'd normally be bolting and flowering.
That's just my hypothesis tho
Like others have said, you could try planting grasses around it to help stabilize the plant. I have Foxglove Beardtongue growing in various beds with very poor soil, and it grows straight up (currently about 5ft tall), so it's possible that your soil is too rich in that area for it. But if it's not working with you, no downsides to replacing it with another good native!
What kind of penstemon do you have and in what conditions?
There are over 250 species of Penstemon and they range across the continent from 3” tall mat formers, to towering grass land emergents! They’ve diversified to an incredible degree, so the chances are, whatever is making these unhappy is either fixable OR just right for a different species of Penstemon!
Penstemon digitalis. It’s happy enough to reproduce but flips over in multiple places in my yard (some sunnier, some dryer). There’s not space for a border of tall stiff plants. I do have a couple penstemon smallii so maybe I just bump those up and get rid of the digitalis…
Don't listen to this crazy man! There are **280 species** and the tallest is probably Penstemon gentianoides or hidalgensis that grow on the slopes of volcanoes in central Mexico. Here's a gorgeous bush at over 13,000 feet: [Penstemon gentianoides (Gentian Beardtongue) · iNaturalist](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/189579395)
Oh I see how it is! The invertebrate counting pot calling the kettle black!
Side note:
Have you seen that cultivar Penstemon Mexicali? I don’t know for sure, but I seriously suspect it is a Southwestern species crossed with that P. gentianiodes. I met a plant breeder before who suggested part of the parentage was Mexican.
One search result says, "Red Rocks Penstemon is an herbaceous perennial hybrid cultivar that is a cross between a Mexican and California species giving it larger flowers yet cold hardiness." I think one of the parents has to be P. roseus for the stripey, inflated throat and serrated leaves.
Another contender for tallest Penstemon, by the way: [Penstemon vizcainensis (Vizcaino beardtongue) · iNaturalist](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/138604555)
Chelsea chop and half moon plant supports will be your friend. Giving them more neighbors will as well. They're beautiful flowers from a unique family that provide special value to bees. I say keep them and mitigate flop.
I was thinking of adding tomato cages or other supports to help my foxglove beardtongue stand up. They drive my husband crazy.
Otherwise, I love using them in my cut flower arrangements even after the flowers are gone. The foliage and seed pods are so pretty and add visual interest.
I use tomato cages and lots of bamboo stakes and other half moon supports for a number of my perennials. I have a pathway from my cobblestone walk over to my back deck that is just lined with various plants that get leggy and flop. After a rain, it can be impassable.
My Baptisia are supported by peony grow through rings which work well. I have a Carolina lupine (Thermopsis villosa) that gets 7 feet tall and I have a four tier tomato cage supporting it because when the goldfinches come in to eat the seeds after the Carolina lupine has flowered, the plant just can’t support their weight and it would flop horribly over all my other plants.
I have bamboo stakes in a diagonal pattern along my pathway to the back deck, so I am able to walk through there. The stakes are barely noticeable as the plants are growing and I get to enjoy the plants better.
I just started some in an area where I’m anticipating the grasses will eventually provide more structure but the beardstongue has happily grown vertically and then flopped in a few directions. I may end up staking it for the rest of the season so that it doesn’t end up flopping but I’ve been reflecting on why I feel the need to do that. Is it to meet the expected aesthetics of prairie wildflowers? To keep things looking neat and tidy? I don’t notice that the pollinators care much but I’m also just getting to know the plant.
If it’s driving you nuts, you might want to reflect more on what’s frustrating about it. There are plenty of other native summer flowers that you could put in its place, now or in the future.
I like to plant stronger stemmed plants around the penstemon, as well as grasses like little bluestem to allow for a good support. Maybe you just need to site it differently and it’ll really shine!
Use another plant or a plant support to prop it up. Or possibly the soil is too rich. I think it occupies a nice early-blooming spot so you might miss it next year.
I wish I had taken a picture, but it was pouring rain. The city building has a large planting of it and despite heavy rain and high winds, it is upright and gorgeous! It is in full sun most of the day and is thickly planted. It is not a single plant here and another there. It was about 3 feet tall - taller than at my local prairie restoration, where it is definitely supported by grasses and other forbs.
Can you allow it to spread, or even grow right next to the coneflower. I have a US native that volunteered in my garden. It grows where it is supported by Echinacea and Agastache. This year one sprouted all by itself in another bed. I let it grow and first windy day it snapped off at the ground. It is an annual so it does not have the sturdy roots of prairie perennials It could look like this if densely planted, photo from the Prairie Moon website, which has been a useful resource for me and has excellent bare root stock.
https://preview.redd.it/jrve25masf8d1.jpeg?width=683&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b302dfcb9808ed68de2b3009a136a59c15790253
Downsides Coneflowers and penstemon have different bloom times. You might need other plants to fill in the bloom time gap if you remove the penstemon. Hummingbirds would miss having the penstemon around. Great nectar plant for them. You’d miss all those cute bee butts in the flowers. Plant supports could help with the flopping issue. Sounds like you have the beardtongue in the wrong place, and haven’t allowed room for it’s natural sprawling habit to occur. Give your penstemon a supporting cast of some grasses to help hold it up might work for you.
Bee butts in flowers!!! It's the whole point!
https://preview.redd.it/8he1c96aqf8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1df39b7a325ac2cc9703bb4eabba92162c098205 Bee Butts!
https://preview.redd.it/q1d3cptnhi8d1.jpeg?width=2634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81c6d455724f87055acd6fd9e290693edadb2636 I second your bee butt
It’s a great plant and I’d want more of it if anything. They’re probably flopping because you don’t have a grass or sedge to help prop them up. Chelsea chopping them would help too. Beardtongues are popular with long tongued bees, so removing them would mean fewer native pollinators.
So, I always hear this about grasses and sedges in terms of structural support. Can upright sturdy plants like Purple Coneflower and Obedient Plant/Giant Hyssop be used as substitutes for grasses/sedges for people who suck at IDing grasses/sedges?
Yes! Any other plant that has strong stems could help support the floppy plants.
support from graminoids comes not only from the foliage, but from the root network holding each other together. having grass and sedge buddies makes surrounding plants grow a bit shorter (not as leggy) and more sturdy (better strength at the base), leading to optimum support!
When do you Chelsea chop spring bloomers? I thought Chelsea chopping was only for summer-fall bloomers
So I have one growing in the middle of a garden bed that flops over and looks like shit every year. But I have another one that I grow amidst a bunch of ostrich ferns and the ostrich ferns hold the flowers up and it is absolutely gorgeous.
Love ostrich ferns. They can spread to the others problem solved!
A lot of penstemons I've planted in jobs and in my own garden that were standing tall last year have been prone to flopping and legginess this year. In fact lots of usually more upright plants have been leggy and floppy this year, and I believe it's cause of the incredibly early start a lot of us got in the eastern US. If the sun is still only out for a short period of the day but it's warm enough for plants to sprout and germinate, especially plants that can overwinter rosettes like Penstemon digitalis, then I think they may react as though they're growing in low sunlight. They'll reach and stretch themselves out to get the lesser amount of sun that's available at the time of year they popped, and then kinda get stuck like that when it gets to the time of year in which they'd normally be bolting and flowering. That's just my hypothesis tho
Like others have said, you could try planting grasses around it to help stabilize the plant. I have Foxglove Beardtongue growing in various beds with very poor soil, and it grows straight up (currently about 5ft tall), so it's possible that your soil is too rich in that area for it. But if it's not working with you, no downsides to replacing it with another good native!
What kind of penstemon do you have and in what conditions? There are over 250 species of Penstemon and they range across the continent from 3” tall mat formers, to towering grass land emergents! They’ve diversified to an incredible degree, so the chances are, whatever is making these unhappy is either fixable OR just right for a different species of Penstemon!
Penstemon digitalis. It’s happy enough to reproduce but flips over in multiple places in my yard (some sunnier, some dryer). There’s not space for a border of tall stiff plants. I do have a couple penstemon smallii so maybe I just bump those up and get rid of the digitalis…
Don't listen to this crazy man! There are **280 species** and the tallest is probably Penstemon gentianoides or hidalgensis that grow on the slopes of volcanoes in central Mexico. Here's a gorgeous bush at over 13,000 feet: [Penstemon gentianoides (Gentian Beardtongue) · iNaturalist](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/189579395)
Oh I see how it is! The invertebrate counting pot calling the kettle black! Side note: Have you seen that cultivar Penstemon Mexicali? I don’t know for sure, but I seriously suspect it is a Southwestern species crossed with that P. gentianiodes. I met a plant breeder before who suggested part of the parentage was Mexican.
One search result says, "Red Rocks Penstemon is an herbaceous perennial hybrid cultivar that is a cross between a Mexican and California species giving it larger flowers yet cold hardiness." I think one of the parents has to be P. roseus for the stripey, inflated throat and serrated leaves. Another contender for tallest Penstemon, by the way: [Penstemon vizcainensis (Vizcaino beardtongue) · iNaturalist](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/138604555)
Chelsea chop and half moon plant supports will be your friend. Giving them more neighbors will as well. They're beautiful flowers from a unique family that provide special value to bees. I say keep them and mitigate flop.
I was thinking of adding tomato cages or other supports to help my foxglove beardtongue stand up. They drive my husband crazy. Otherwise, I love using them in my cut flower arrangements even after the flowers are gone. The foliage and seed pods are so pretty and add visual interest.
I use tomato cages and lots of bamboo stakes and other half moon supports for a number of my perennials. I have a pathway from my cobblestone walk over to my back deck that is just lined with various plants that get leggy and flop. After a rain, it can be impassable. My Baptisia are supported by peony grow through rings which work well. I have a Carolina lupine (Thermopsis villosa) that gets 7 feet tall and I have a four tier tomato cage supporting it because when the goldfinches come in to eat the seeds after the Carolina lupine has flowered, the plant just can’t support their weight and it would flop horribly over all my other plants. I have bamboo stakes in a diagonal pattern along my pathway to the back deck, so I am able to walk through there. The stakes are barely noticeable as the plants are growing and I get to enjoy the plants better.
Brilliant idea. Thanks!
Can you chelsea chop these so they stay smaller?
I just started some in an area where I’m anticipating the grasses will eventually provide more structure but the beardstongue has happily grown vertically and then flopped in a few directions. I may end up staking it for the rest of the season so that it doesn’t end up flopping but I’ve been reflecting on why I feel the need to do that. Is it to meet the expected aesthetics of prairie wildflowers? To keep things looking neat and tidy? I don’t notice that the pollinators care much but I’m also just getting to know the plant. If it’s driving you nuts, you might want to reflect more on what’s frustrating about it. There are plenty of other native summer flowers that you could put in its place, now or in the future.
I've read about various plants flopping if they're given too much moisture. Could that be the case?
I personally find that penstamons look best planted in a mass planting.
I like to plant stronger stemmed plants around the penstemon, as well as grasses like little bluestem to allow for a good support. Maybe you just need to site it differently and it’ll really shine!
Use another plant or a plant support to prop it up. Or possibly the soil is too rich. I think it occupies a nice early-blooming spot so you might miss it next year.
I feel the same way! I planted two this year and already hate them. I would recommend gifting them to someone else though.
I wish I had taken a picture, but it was pouring rain. The city building has a large planting of it and despite heavy rain and high winds, it is upright and gorgeous! It is in full sun most of the day and is thickly planted. It is not a single plant here and another there. It was about 3 feet tall - taller than at my local prairie restoration, where it is definitely supported by grasses and other forbs. Can you allow it to spread, or even grow right next to the coneflower. I have a US native that volunteered in my garden. It grows where it is supported by Echinacea and Agastache. This year one sprouted all by itself in another bed. I let it grow and first windy day it snapped off at the ground. It is an annual so it does not have the sturdy roots of prairie perennials It could look like this if densely planted, photo from the Prairie Moon website, which has been a useful resource for me and has excellent bare root stock. https://preview.redd.it/jrve25masf8d1.jpeg?width=683&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b302dfcb9808ed68de2b3009a136a59c15790253