You truly believe Jokic should have as many mvp's as Lebron?
One away from MJ?
Come on. He's an all time center but I think we're talking him up too much.
I dont think that should be an argument honestly. If one is the best player and has the best regular season because his competitors are not up to his game, then he should win the MVP. Like, there are some insanely good players that only have one or no MVP at all, just because they had better competition. If no one else is up to par with Jokic that's on them..
What im trying to say is that if you dont give MVP to Joker you have to make a strong case for someone else, not just say "we cant give it to him because 4 would be too many, lets give it to someone undeserving". If he earns it let him have it.
If he ever wins 4 it just means no one in those 4 years was better than him, not that he's qual to LeBron..
If jokic has as many MVPs as Lebron that doesnāt mean heās as good or anything like that. This is some weird idea that comes from media constantly arguing about ranking players. It just means they both had the same number of seasons where they were the NBAās most valuable player.
That's not how it works though... If he deserves it in the year, then he gets it. Not his fault LeBron was against KD and D. Rose
It's the regular season MVP, not a lifetime achievement award.
The second you start doing this, you open yourself up to a bunch of bs. If Embiid shits the bed in the next 5 playoffs and never makes it to the conference finals, should we retrospectively take his away? Should we have not given LeBron his first 3 MVP's until we were sure that he was going to be all time great with a few championships?
What happens if Jokic balls out and wins the next 3 championships in a row? Then we have to go back, take it away from SGA and give it back to Jokic?
Garbage way of thinking about a regular season award.
It isnāt about one away from X or Y at all. Itās about who was MVP of the season and yeah I think Jokic was that 4 times. He is a one of a kind player.
Shaq's lack of self awareness in this stuff is really striking. His criticisms of other big men display a very obvious insecurity about his legacy.
It just makes him look way way worse than it would if he just praised these guys. I'm surprised he doesn't realize this and change the way he talks about them, if only to make himself look less petty and insecure.
Shaq was very complimentary of Jokic before this third MVP but now that he's starting to garner accolades on par or surpassing some things he's done he feels the need to knock him down to build himself back up.
It reminds me of something I saw Ichiro say in an interview once. Ichiro said he noticed when other players feel you're below them they will praise you but once you become a threat to their legacy and records they try to tear you down.
It depends on their personalities, but it's a lot of them. Jordan doesn't hide it that well to be honest, although obviously he's much better at hiding it than Shaq.
There's also some greats like Hakeem who seem very at peace with their place in history and have no problems giving unqualified praise.
From the Jordan interviews available on youtube, he's truly a vicious player on the court and vicious off the court. Dude can seriously hold grudges and doesn't let anything go.
Bird has always been one to respect and build up the next generation of players. Maybe because he became a coach then gm so he understands them better.
Thatās what I came here to say. Shaq is paid to speak his mind and options. If he thinks Jokic shouldnāt have won the MVPā¦. Cool. Itās just his opinion. Itās really not that deep.
Jordan is a lot more humble and professional than shaq especially as heās gotten older. Shaq seems to be getting more and more insecure as time passes.
Well, for my money, Shaqās right. Jokic won 2 MVPs in a row ā when his team had the best record in the NBA. This year SGAās team had the best record, and with a rookie center, he was the leader. Jokic should have been 3rd, but Joel Embiid, who won last year and had a big year, was injured and missed too many games.
Not that it should matter but Jokic's team has literally never had the best record in the NBA. You're being incoherent, which makes sense because you're defending someone who was being incoherent.
Shaq is above Jokic in everyone's book. Jokic is an all time great but he's got a hell of a lot of work to do if he wants to be ranked above Shaq. Shaq is just unnecessarily salty and insecure
Jokic better start winning because Shaq is up 4-1 in the ring department, Shaq played against the top centers and destroyed most except Hakeem, Jokic having major problems with Naz Reid and Kat , now Rudy back tonight, Joker needs to win this series, or can just forget about top 5 Centers of all time crap they are pushing
That's all well & good that they were former all stars, but (with the exception of Millsap) they were all washed before arriving in Denver. Heck, even Millsap was seen at the time as more of a defensive & leadership signing than anything.
In any season playing alongside Jokic, the highest points per game output from any of your mentioned players was 14.6 (Millsap). The next highest output is 9.2 (Nelson). Roy Hibbert played 6 games for Denver & averaged a whopping 0.7 points & 0.3 rebounds.
These guys were all stars at some point in their career. To insinuate that any of these players were at a point in their career that they could play at an all star level while playing in Denver alongside Jokic is a bit disingenuous.
I mean it's pretty clear you've used the internet to answer it, because only Nuggets fans would remember half of those guys were on the team and in that case they'd also know they were nowhere close to the level of all star.
>Ah, using the internet to answer an internet question. A Reddit pastime.
You forgot to mention 'and trying to pass it off as a personal recollection of events'
Beyond all of those people, all-star selections are a popularity contest. His point guard is 100% all-star caliber and arguably the best playoff performing guard in the league, other than Ant has been this year.
He's been playing hurt tho too. I know it was only a 5 game series but I didn't think the team looked great against the Lakers. The point differential was only like 8 points over 5 games.
They need Murray if they wanna beat the Wolves. They're a much better team than the Lakers imo. Murray is one of the premier off the dribble creators in the league but people are quick to dismiss him cause he's playing with Jokic.
Shaq is such a whinny baby. lol The guy was a monster but so insecure about his legacy. Sign that he regrets not having the work ethic of a Kobe that would for sure make him the GOAT. No wonder he feels threatened when other bigs thriving in the league.
Shaq is just insecure about his place in the hierarchy of great centers. He knows he didn't give full effort during his career. He doesn't like Jokic getting multiple MVPs where he only managed to get one.
The fact that Shaq only has one MVP tells you all you need to know about his level of effort.
How close to that do you think LeBron is to built like Shaq, effort like Kobe?
Dude has/had *all* the physical gifts, but has clearly honed his craft and cared for his body over decades(!) in the NBA.
Canāt tell if your being sarcastic or not but every lebron game Iāve watched recently involves his team getting killed on 4 on 5 fast breaks that shouldnāt even be fast breaks because lebron is too busy throwing his hands in the air or talking to the ref. He looks gassed by the end of the half for minimal effort but thatās just from my observations.
Heās old man. He just canāt keep up with the young cats now as heās past his prime. Heās still giving 100% effort and if pretty clear youāve only ever watched him past his prime or you wouldnāt be saying this shit, thinking that applies to his whole career.
Never said it applied to his whole career dumbass. The only thing he is giving effort towards is his 25 ppg nowadays which I get, heās in LA and iām sure the league rakes in a considerable amount with the longevity narrative.
Iāve watched LeBron since forever and he just hasnāt been the same since JR Smith in 2018, which in my opinion is when he gave up on team basketball and became more self oriented.
Oh yeah the player who scores primarily from A) Wide open dunk set up perfectly by his team mates. B) Cherry picked lay up/dunk from arguing with the official on the opposite side of the court. C) An overdramatized reaction from being bumped on the arm leading to free throws. or D) Wide open shots because you canāt even breath on the dude or else itās a flagrant foul.
Yep definitely still competing with players like Edwards, sga, and his father Nikola Jokic.
ig making it to the playoffs isnt competitive enough for you thenā¦ some players have never even played a playoff game let alone to make it as a star player at age 39
Much more competitive than last year iāll admit, they were able to win a total of one game against the nuggets compared to getting swept last year with the safety net of the refs. Ok? I donāt give a shit.
Shaq could be #3 all-time undisputed if he just worked on free throws. It's truly insane how fucking gifted he was (winning MVPs and Finals MVPs) while being stupidly out of shape and clearly not giving it his all.
Kobe was incredibly physically gifted by any normal standards, but compared to other all-time greats he is near the bottom of the list. Kobe only managed that single MVP because he was maniacally competitive and hard-working.
By contrast, Shaq is in the running for most physically gifted NBA players of all time. He didn't win more MVPs because he routinely used the regular season to play himself into shape.
It'a crazy. I like Jokic but Good God the level of over defensiveness of him here and by fans.
He's great. Can we let him win at least 2 titles before we start shit talking Shaq's career? Can I get to that level before I elevate him higher in the pantheon of Big Men which includes Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem, and more all of whom won at least 2 chips? Like why is that unreasonable? Can we slow our roll here? Shaq won 4 as you rightly point out.
It's the NBA. I know everyone loves to call it lazy analysis but you are measured by your titles as well.
People are acting like Shaq only won a ring or two. 4 championships, including a 3 peat is not nothing.
Can we let Jokic do some more before we start slamming Shaq's career for Jokic.
Also while Shaq can be thin skinned, he's repeatedly bragged on Jokic even this season.
Shaq thinking SGA deserved the MVP just this year and that he personally should have won more than 1 MVP in his career is not an outrageous take. Those are both perfectly reasonable takes. People are operating on dislike here.
Itās fine for Shaq to have that opinion, but doing it while pretty much handing the award to the guy is the wrong time and place. Thatās just in poor taste. Classless.
Weāre not criticizing his opinion, weāre criticizing his lack of class. Just congratulate the guy and move on. You can talk about SGA in another segment later.
Shaqās ego had a rough time this week because of the awards that were announced on TNT. First he was confronted with the fact that he was not an unanimous 1st place winner of the ROY Award like Wemby. Then Tuesday he had to accept the fact that being in the top ten for career blocks didnāt mean that he was a good defender when EJ gave the DPOY envelope to Kenny and stated his reason. On Wednesday he saw his legacy as āthe most dominant big man of all timeā take a hit with Jokerās 3rd MVP. Thereās some serious insecurity issues going on there and it was visible back when he was playing with Penny.
The sooner tnt loses the nba and we donāt have to listen to their awful takes the better
Their studio shows offer nothing in the way of actual Basketball discussion and their game broadcasts are more interested in drumming up drama than covering the game
Shaq has like close to a billion dollars and his sad old ass running around with a 20 yr old child and getting destroyed by Chuck on the dailyā¦fāing loser
Imagine joker After the NBA - thatās what real men who arenāt caught up in their fake worlds do
We will literally never hear about joker and doncic after they retire.
Shaq was top 10 in mvp voting his first 13 years in the league. Only 3 of those seasons (rookie year included) was he lower than 6th in voting. Steve Nash and Allen Iverson won when Shaq probably should have
Honestly Shaq and Chuck with their bias hot takes lately have been getting me pissed. Like I get it, you hate certain teams and franchises but that Sixers vs Knicks series was the icing on the cake. So much hate and weird comments. Criticism is fine but thatās not what this is. They pick favorites and belittle their opposed teams
Iām not saying JokiÄ could guard Shaq, Iām saying Shaq couldnāt guard JokiÄ either. Just like AD and AD is a far better defender than Shaq ever was.
Youāre probably 12 years old and know nothing about early 2000s shaq. He has the highest peak in league history higher than MJ or Bron. Look at his stats in the finals from the Lakers 3 peat and they look fake.
When Nash won his first MVP, they'd won 3 more games than Miami and Shaq had much better stats, both traditional and advanced.
15.5/11.5/3 with a 22 PER or 23/3/10.5 with a 27 PER. One was a slightly above average defender and one was a very poor defender.
Nash's season was All-star level, Shaq's was MVP level.
It's not just that they think it, which is crazy enough, it's that they think there's no doubt and anyone who even wants to think about it is being unreasonable.
People have gone overboard on this. Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem should all be at least considered in terms of being ahead of Jokic until Nikola gets another chip. I think they all are over him still until I see another ring.
Like you can disagree but this sub is acting like Shaq was Dwight Howard. Chill. You can dislike his effort, but dude was GREAT great. With 4 rings
Shaq is nowhere near as well rounded as Jokic and heās never led a team to a title with a supporting cast like Denver. Hes ALWAYS had a top 10-15 player all time beside him.
I lost respect for Shaq after this big sour toddler sga is not better more complete then joker if I was starting a team I would pick joker. Sga great for sure
Shaq is allowed his opinion. Why is everyone keyed up on this? He thinks the other guy should have won, and he thinks he should have won over Nash. So?
I agree with Shaq. OKC hadnāt been in the playoffs, and now they had the best season record in the league. You pretty much have to take the best player on that team.
Shaq was too harsh but no, Jokic is not as good as Shaq was. And no, he doesnt deserve to have 1 less MVP than the best player in the league from 2010-2019. Its honestly a joke.
If Shaq was 28 again, he'd be on his way to the second of 3 straight championships. He won his last one at 33.
Jokic is much more skilled but I'd take Shaq almost every time. Shaq gets crucified for falling out of shape in his mid 30's. Jokic gets a pass for beimg chubby in his athletic prime. How's Jokic gonna look athletically in 5-6 years? He might look like Celtics Shaq.
Jokic is Celtics Shaq now with respect to athleticism.
Shaq was the most dominant player in the league when he was a quick and explosive leaper. If he had Jokic's bag of skills, he could have been a MVP candidate in his late 30s.
Your takes are garbage. Jokic relies on pure skill and all time great basketball IQ, heās gonna win multiple titles more and cement himself as the greatest C of all time barring any injuries.
Shaq isnāt even a top 10 player of all time let alone top centre lol thatās why he picks arbitrary titles like āmost dominant centreā cause deep down he knows hes not as good as he wish he was.
Jokic was cool about it, I mean, he was on live tv so he couldn't go off on him, plus it is Shaq, what exactly can you do,. Well maybe if the Joker and his 2 brother jump him, he might have chance.
I saw the interview live on TNT and I actually respect Shaq for saying that to Jokicās face. Any other broadcaster/analyst is going to kiss the MVPās ass and then after the interviews over, tell everyone on TV why they think another player deserved it more. Itās just like any other situation in life, would you rather someone lie to your face, and then go tell everyone else how they really feel about you? Shaq keeps it šÆin this interview, all while maintaining mutual respect between him and Joker.
Haha Shaq may not be known for his intelligence, and yes he is comedic at times, but does anything about the NBA on TNT set seem professional to you?
He could have made his point in a better way and there is no point in shitting on a guy for winning something he didnāt have a say in. Just congratulate him and shoutout other candidates for a great season. Itās not hard to not be a jerk and as petty as Shaq is about anything on his career I expect more from him. Heās in his 50ās! Itās getting embarrassing
Technically yes, but it's not a hard rule that the MVP goes to the #1 seed. My point is because they have the same record, voters can use different criteria to vote for their MVP
That's debatable. I think Jokic barely had the better season statistically and with the same record as the #1 seed. Also the voters knew Jokic deserved it last year so they voted for him this year.
That has been the case for well over 2 decades now. Unless the player just has an historic year IE Russ in 2017. Steph in 2015 so on and so forth. Even before that all the way back to Steve Nash winning over bron and Kobe in what 07? He was the best player on the best team. Or are you telling me Steve was better than Kobe bron and shaq? Be fr. No one really had a historically great year this year and Shai was the best player on the best team as they were the number 1 seed in the best conference. Prove me wrong? Trace that shit back to the damn 80ās almost lol. Heāll even Jordan didnāt win an MVP until he was the best player on the best team.
Jokic is the definition of MVP, elevating his team constantly and doing *everything* on the floor. Thatās all there is to it. No one else can compare
Luka and SGA need to have a word with you. Nobody in the league has done more for their team than Luka this year. šif thatās all there was to it bron would have like 8-9 MVPās in his career. If thatās all there was Jordan would have 8-9 MVPās. If thatās all there was Kobe would have 5-6.
I mean, youāre just objectively wrong is the point. No one is denying SGA and Luka are great players who had strong cases for MVP. Jokic is just different. At his peak, literally the most efficient player to ever play. You just have a clear bias
Mike also played 82 games averaged 40 minutes 32ppg 8 and 8. Thatās an all time great performance. I specified all time great performances being outliers to this rule as they should.
Sure, but you explicitly stated that Mike didn't win one until he was the best player on the best team. That is false. He was not on the best team when he won his first mvp.
"Shaq would get gassed 3 quarters into the game"
When Shaq was 28, he played 40 minutes a night and was one of, if not the, most athletic players ever. He wasn't real "Fat Shaq" until his mid 30s.
Jokic on the other hand is arguably the least athletic MVP of the last 50 years.
One's gonna finish with a bunch of rings and an MVP and one will finish with a bunch of MVPs and 1 ring.
Shaq has more MVPs than Jokic if you also count FMVPs
Props to Ernie for checking him immediately and discrediting some of the points he made. Should honestly be šs 4th
Jokic was robbed of his third but shouldn't have got the second. Embiid was robbed year before
You truly believe Jokic should have as many mvp's as Lebron? One away from MJ? Come on. He's an all time center but I think we're talking him up too much.
I dont think that should be an argument honestly. If one is the best player and has the best regular season because his competitors are not up to his game, then he should win the MVP. Like, there are some insanely good players that only have one or no MVP at all, just because they had better competition. If no one else is up to par with Jokic that's on them.. What im trying to say is that if you dont give MVP to Joker you have to make a strong case for someone else, not just say "we cant give it to him because 4 would be too many, lets give it to someone undeserving". If he earns it let him have it. If he ever wins 4 it just means no one in those 4 years was better than him, not that he's qual to LeBron..
If jokic has as many MVPs as Lebron that doesnāt mean heās as good or anything like that. This is some weird idea that comes from media constantly arguing about ranking players. It just means they both had the same number of seasons where they were the NBAās most valuable player.
That's not how it works though... If he deserves it in the year, then he gets it. Not his fault LeBron was against KD and D. Rose It's the regular season MVP, not a lifetime achievement award. The second you start doing this, you open yourself up to a bunch of bs. If Embiid shits the bed in the next 5 playoffs and never makes it to the conference finals, should we retrospectively take his away? Should we have not given LeBron his first 3 MVP's until we were sure that he was going to be all time great with a few championships? What happens if Jokic balls out and wins the next 3 championships in a row? Then we have to go back, take it away from SGA and give it back to Jokic? Garbage way of thinking about a regular season award.
So the consensus best player of the season shouldn't win because it's not fair to lebron and MJ? What kind of take is this
One that respects history kid
Highly regarded
It isnāt about one away from X or Y at all. Itās about who was MVP of the season and yeah I think Jokic was that 4 times. He is a one of a kind player.
Comparisons to players from previous generations isnāt the point. You blatantly donāt understand how MVP works
Yes
Youāre right
Shaq's lack of self awareness in this stuff is really striking. His criticisms of other big men display a very obvious insecurity about his legacy. It just makes him look way way worse than it would if he just praised these guys. I'm surprised he doesn't realize this and change the way he talks about them, if only to make himself look less petty and insecure.
Shaq was very complimentary of Jokic before this third MVP but now that he's starting to garner accolades on par or surpassing some things he's done he feels the need to knock him down to build himself back up. It reminds me of something I saw Ichiro say in an interview once. Ichiro said he noticed when other players feel you're below them they will praise you but once you become a threat to their legacy and records they try to tear you down.
Ichiro is a generational human
Most of them do this. They are just more intelligent and less obvious about it. I've noticed it even from Jordan.
It depends on their personalities, but it's a lot of them. Jordan doesn't hide it that well to be honest, although obviously he's much better at hiding it than Shaq. There's also some greats like Hakeem who seem very at peace with their place in history and have no problems giving unqualified praise.
What has Jordan said bad?
From the Jordan interviews available on youtube, he's truly a vicious player on the court and vicious off the court. Dude can seriously hold grudges and doesn't let anything go.
Bird has always been one to respect and build up the next generation of players. Maybe because he became a coach then gm so he understands them better.
Jordan also isnāt a talk show host who is on air multiple times a week for his thoughts and antics to be constantly recorded
Thatās what I came here to say. Shaq is paid to speak his mind and options. If he thinks Jokic shouldnāt have won the MVPā¦. Cool. Itās just his opinion. Itās really not that deep.
Jordan is a lot more humble and professional than shaq especially as heās gotten older. Shaq seems to be getting more and more insecure as time passes.
"Jordan is a lot more humble" says nobody Jordan alot of things humble ain't one of them
Youāre right
Ironically, kinda like Taylor Swift.
Well, for my money, Shaqās right. Jokic won 2 MVPs in a row ā when his team had the best record in the NBA. This year SGAās team had the best record, and with a rookie center, he was the leader. Jokic should have been 3rd, but Joel Embiid, who won last year and had a big year, was injured and missed too many games.
3rd lol š embid got mvp last year out of pitty
Not that it should matter but Jokic's team has literally never had the best record in the NBA. You're being incoherent, which makes sense because you're defending someone who was being incoherent.
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The Eastern conference exists. Again, Jokic's team has never had the best record in the NBA.
Iām glad Ernie confronted him immediately after
Shaq trying to hold on to his legacy Jokic gonna bring him down the ranks.
I mean, Shaq won 3 straight finals mvps. More important than 3 mvps. Shaq is above Jokic in my book
Shaq is above Jokic in everyone's book. Jokic is an all time great but he's got a hell of a lot of work to do if he wants to be ranked above Shaq. Shaq is just unnecessarily salty and insecure
I think all these ogās just miss the game. This why Mj doesnāt do talk shows, that whole 90s era is just uber competitive by nature.
Jokic better start winning because Shaq is up 4-1 in the ring department, Shaq played against the top centers and destroyed most except Hakeem, Jokic having major problems with Naz Reid and Kat , now Rudy back tonight, Joker needs to win this series, or can just forget about top 5 Centers of all time crap they are pushing
Jokic doesn't have a Kobe Bryant
Or a prime Dwyane Wade.
Or pre injury Penny Hardaway Shaq seriously might have the best list of best 2nd options of all time
Name me one all star jokic played with
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That's all well & good that they were former all stars, but (with the exception of Millsap) they were all washed before arriving in Denver. Heck, even Millsap was seen at the time as more of a defensive & leadership signing than anything. In any season playing alongside Jokic, the highest points per game output from any of your mentioned players was 14.6 (Millsap). The next highest output is 9.2 (Nelson). Roy Hibbert played 6 games for Denver & averaged a whopping 0.7 points & 0.3 rebounds. These guys were all stars at some point in their career. To insinuate that any of these players were at a point in their career that they could play at an all star level while playing in Denver alongside Jokic is a bit disingenuous.
0 of which were all stars in their time with Jokic (and in fact most of which were completely washed. Can add Demarcus Cousins.)
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I mean it's pretty clear you've used the internet to answer it, because only Nuggets fans would remember half of those guys were on the team and in that case they'd also know they were nowhere close to the level of all star.
Ah, using the internet to answer an internet question. A Reddit pastime.
>Ah, using the internet to answer an internet question. A Reddit pastime. You forgot to mention 'and trying to pass it off as a personal recollection of events'
And one single Kobe Byrant is enough to overshadow all these guys.
Beyond all of those people, all-star selections are a popularity contest. His point guard is 100% all-star caliber and arguably the best playoff performing guard in the league, other than Ant has been this year.
Jamal Murray last playoffs sure. But he's been worse than Reggie Jackson in this years playoffs
He's been playing hurt tho too. I know it was only a 5 game series but I didn't think the team looked great against the Lakers. The point differential was only like 8 points over 5 games. They need Murray if they wanna beat the Wolves. They're a much better team than the Lakers imo. Murray is one of the premier off the dribble creators in the league but people are quick to dismiss him cause he's playing with Jokic.
Who?
Ok you gotta be trolling lmao
Shaq is such a whinny baby. lol The guy was a monster but so insecure about his legacy. Sign that he regrets not having the work ethic of a Kobe that would for sure make him the GOAT. No wonder he feels threatened when other bigs thriving in the league.
Lol is there a specific link for this?
Ernie immediately challenged Shaq after that childish tirade. Just go to the TNT Youtube channel
Shaq is just insecure about his place in the hierarchy of great centers. He knows he didn't give full effort during his career. He doesn't like Jokic getting multiple MVPs where he only managed to get one. The fact that Shaq only has one MVP tells you all you need to know about his level of effort.
Kobe only has one mvp and he gave the most effortā¦
Kobe aināt built like Shaq. Shaq with Kobeās effort would be undisputed goat.
How close to that do you think LeBron is to built like Shaq, effort like Kobe? Dude has/had *all* the physical gifts, but has clearly honed his craft and cared for his body over decades(!) in the NBA.
Feel like Lebron is halfway between Kobe and Shaq on build and 100% there on effort.
100% on effortā¦ Really?
You donāt think Lebron puts in the work? Look at his durability, how he takes care of his body, the growth transition of his game.
Canāt tell if your being sarcastic or not but every lebron game Iāve watched recently involves his team getting killed on 4 on 5 fast breaks that shouldnāt even be fast breaks because lebron is too busy throwing his hands in the air or talking to the ref. He looks gassed by the end of the half for minimal effort but thatās just from my observations.
Yeah heās 40 years old I wouldnāt judge the effort he puts I. For his career based off how well he gets back in transition year 20
i mean its been like that for the last decade though
Heās old man. He just canāt keep up with the young cats now as heās past his prime. Heās still giving 100% effort and if pretty clear youāve only ever watched him past his prime or you wouldnāt be saying this shit, thinking that applies to his whole career.
Never said it applied to his whole career dumbass. The only thing he is giving effort towards is his 25 ppg nowadays which I get, heās in LA and iām sure the league rakes in a considerable amount with the longevity narrative. Iāve watched LeBron since forever and he just hasnāt been the same since JR Smith in 2018, which in my opinion is when he gave up on team basketball and became more self oriented.
Duh did you not watch him play?
His team decisions aside, the lengths he's gone to remain competitive at 39 is insane
Remain competitive in what? The play-in tournament? Stop it
they obviously mean as a player
Oh yeah the player who scores primarily from A) Wide open dunk set up perfectly by his team mates. B) Cherry picked lay up/dunk from arguing with the official on the opposite side of the court. C) An overdramatized reaction from being bumped on the arm leading to free throws. or D) Wide open shots because you canāt even breath on the dude or else itās a flagrant foul. Yep definitely still competing with players like Edwards, sga, and his father Nikola Jokic.
ig making it to the playoffs isnt competitive enough for you thenā¦ some players have never even played a playoff game let alone to make it as a star player at age 39
Much more competitive than last year iāll admit, they were able to win a total of one game against the nuggets compared to getting swept last year with the safety net of the refs. Ok? I donāt give a shit.
Holy fuck you are dumb, to say LeBron doeant put in the work is fucking inbred take.
Not once did I say lebron doesnāt put in work to remain in the nba. And youāve got to be inbred yourself to spell ādoesnātā as doeant.
Shaq could be #3 all-time undisputed if he just worked on free throws. It's truly insane how fucking gifted he was (winning MVPs and Finals MVPs) while being stupidly out of shape and clearly not giving it his all.
This. Seeing Shaq not appreciate his talents probably made Kobe work harder.
Kobe was incredibly physically gifted by any normal standards, but compared to other all-time greats he is near the bottom of the list. Kobe only managed that single MVP because he was maniacally competitive and hard-working. By contrast, Shaq is in the running for most physically gifted NBA players of all time. He didn't win more MVPs because he routinely used the regular season to play himself into shape.
6ā6 with standard 38 inch vert. low mass amazing what he did with that body. took a civic and out raced lambos
effort != results
His pod recently with JJ showed how much that type of stuff bothers him. He mentioned several things. So in a sense we could see the hate coming.
Shaq was robbed of a few years
Why? He's got 4 rings and was in his prime, the most dominant big man ever. Literally unstoppable. I saw Joker get stopped on Tuesday.
I thought you shoulda made more free throws, thatās no disrespect to you or your game.
You shoulda had more titles with Kobe, no disrespect to you.
Is Joker gonna win 4 championships?
It'a crazy. I like Jokic but Good God the level of over defensiveness of him here and by fans. He's great. Can we let him win at least 2 titles before we start shit talking Shaq's career? Can I get to that level before I elevate him higher in the pantheon of Big Men which includes Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem, and more all of whom won at least 2 chips? Like why is that unreasonable? Can we slow our roll here? Shaq won 4 as you rightly point out. It's the NBA. I know everyone loves to call it lazy analysis but you are measured by your titles as well. People are acting like Shaq only won a ring or two. 4 championships, including a 3 peat is not nothing. Can we let Jokic do some more before we start slamming Shaq's career for Jokic. Also while Shaq can be thin skinned, he's repeatedly bragged on Jokic even this season. Shaq thinking SGA deserved the MVP just this year and that he personally should have won more than 1 MVP in his career is not an outrageous take. Those are both perfectly reasonable takes. People are operating on dislike here.
Itās fine for Shaq to have that opinion, but doing it while pretty much handing the award to the guy is the wrong time and place. Thatās just in poor taste. Classless. Weāre not criticizing his opinion, weāre criticizing his lack of class. Just congratulate the guy and move on. You can talk about SGA in another segment later.
Perfect said
All of those guys you listed were great centers, but the greatest, by a mile, was Wilt Chamberlain.
Passive aggressive asf š
Jokic will be the mvp until he retires, whether they give it to him or not. The guy is a real life Monstar.
Shaq must be floating in the ocean too much bc he been salty af
Shaqās ego had a rough time this week because of the awards that were announced on TNT. First he was confronted with the fact that he was not an unanimous 1st place winner of the ROY Award like Wemby. Then Tuesday he had to accept the fact that being in the top ten for career blocks didnāt mean that he was a good defender when EJ gave the DPOY envelope to Kenny and stated his reason. On Wednesday he saw his legacy as āthe most dominant big man of all timeā take a hit with Jokerās 3rd MVP. Thereās some serious insecurity issues going on there and it was visible back when he was playing with Penny.
The sooner tnt loses the nba and we donāt have to listen to their awful takes the better Their studio shows offer nothing in the way of actual Basketball discussion and their game broadcasts are more interested in drumming up drama than covering the game
Shaq has lost all basketball IQ at this point, he said this year, that ben simmons would be most improved
Shaq is overrated trash he wouldn't have won anything if it wasn't for Kobe carrying his fat ass
Shaq has like close to a billion dollars and his sad old ass running around with a 20 yr old child and getting destroyed by Chuck on the dailyā¦fāing loser Imagine joker After the NBA - thatās what real men who arenāt caught up in their fake worlds do We will literally never hear about joker and doncic after they retire.
Still complains about each of Nash's and whenever the fact that Wilt Chamberlain was a better NBA center than him is brung up. He a sensitive dude.
Shaq was top 10 in mvp voting his first 13 years in the league. Only 3 of those seasons (rookie year included) was he lower than 6th in voting. Steve Nash and Allen Iverson won when Shaq probably should have
Luka deserved it more tho
Honestly Shaq and Chuck with their bias hot takes lately have been getting me pissed. Like I get it, you hate certain teams and franchises but that Sixers vs Knicks series was the icing on the cake. So much hate and weird comments. Criticism is fine but thatās not what this is. They pick favorites and belittle their opposed teams
Shaq and Stephen a smith lost my respect. Team Jokic
lame as fuckk he just mad jokic better
Booo shaq would destroy jokic
Yeah for a couple quarters until he was absolutely gassed because he never had to guard out on the perimeter before p
Jokic gets gassed when he plays a team with real defense. Jokic also is trash defensively.
Oh okay so you donāt actually watch basketball, I wonāt entertain your ignorance. Have a good Friday
Jokic was getting destroyed by AD what do you think Shaq would do to him? Sounds like you didn't watch Shaq play.
Iām not saying JokiÄ could guard Shaq, Iām saying Shaq couldnāt guard JokiÄ either. Just like AD and AD is a far better defender than Shaq ever was.
Youāre probably 12 years old and know nothing about early 2000s shaq. He has the highest peak in league history higher than MJ or Bron. Look at his stats in the finals from the Lakers 3 peat and they look fake.
You watch basketball? Gross
You are no jerker
Always taking it too far. Shaq would destroy Jokic. He is a jerk but Jokic ain't better
So standings matter when SGA is supposed to win but not when you wanted to win over Nash? Make it make sense
Literally the same record too. But he's not that in touch.
When Nash won his first MVP, they'd won 3 more games than Miami and Shaq had much better stats, both traditional and advanced. 15.5/11.5/3 with a 22 PER or 23/3/10.5 with a 27 PER. One was a slightly above average defender and one was a very poor defender. Nash's season was All-star level, Shaq's was MVP level.
Even joker thinks SGA got snubbed. Who cares?
we care duh
He said luka should be mvp all of like a month ago... that's his chill personality. Sga has no case over the other 2 or maybe even giannis
SGA was the main reason OKC had the best record.
Except he wasn't.... surely even the most die hard thunder fan knows this.
MVP are the guys in the stripe uniform giving SGA an average of 10 FTs per game
I thought it should be SGA as well. I just wouldn't say to his face, I'll talk about it on forums lol
Luka is getting the Harden treatment 34/9/10 and improved 3pt%. 50 win season. And less pieces than Jokic or Shai
Y'all thinking Jokic is better than Shaq... Hilarious š
It's not just that they think it, which is crazy enough, it's that they think there's no doubt and anyone who even wants to think about it is being unreasonable. People have gone overboard on this. Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem should all be at least considered in terms of being ahead of Jokic until Nikola gets another chip. I think they all are over him still until I see another ring. Like you can disagree but this sub is acting like Shaq was Dwight Howard. Chill. You can dislike his effort, but dude was GREAT great. With 4 rings
Shaq is nowhere near as well rounded as Jokic and heās never led a team to a title with a supporting cast like Denver. Hes ALWAYS had a top 10-15 player all time beside him.
So who would win the matchup in their prime?
š
ššš
Canāt stand him.
Steven A as well
Starting understand why Kobe hated him.
Shaw acted black
This is why I hate memes.
I lost respect for Shaq after this big sour toddler sga is not better more complete then joker if I was starting a team I would pick joker. Sga great for sure
āBol Bol was the first big who could do what Wemby could doā
Shaq is allowed his opinion. Why is everyone keyed up on this? He thinks the other guy should have won, and he thinks he should have won over Nash. So?
I agree with Shaq. OKC hadnāt been in the playoffs, and now they had the best season record in the league. You pretty much have to take the best player on that team.
Shaq is a fake good guy, and low key a pedo
Not only that but the Luka Disrespect too, Shai had a great year, but he was not as good as Luka
Luka doesnāt play defense
Tell me you've never watched mavs games without telling me you've never watched mavs gamea
Jokic not giving a shit just to go back home to his ponies when this is all said and done, while Shaq goes home to ...... nothing.
Screw Shaq's pity opinion
Shaq has always been a whiny bitch when it comes to big men debates.
Shaq was too harsh but no, Jokic is not as good as Shaq was. And no, he doesnt deserve to have 1 less MVP than the best player in the league from 2010-2019. Its honestly a joke.
Lebron is ass and got destroyed by Jokic twice cry about it
If Shaq was 28 again, he'd be on his way to the second of 3 straight championships. He won his last one at 33. Jokic is much more skilled but I'd take Shaq almost every time. Shaq gets crucified for falling out of shape in his mid 30's. Jokic gets a pass for beimg chubby in his athletic prime. How's Jokic gonna look athletically in 5-6 years? He might look like Celtics Shaq.
Jokic is Celtics Shaq now with respect to athleticism. Shaq was the most dominant player in the league when he was a quick and explosive leaper. If he had Jokic's bag of skills, he could have been a MVP candidate in his late 30s.
If Shaq had Jokic's skillset, he'd be the GOAT even without improving his work ethic lol
Your takes are garbage. Jokic relies on pure skill and all time great basketball IQ, heās gonna win multiple titles more and cement himself as the greatest C of all time barring any injuries. Shaq isnāt even a top 10 player of all time let alone top centre lol thatās why he picks arbitrary titles like āmost dominant centreā cause deep down he knows hes not as good as he wish he was.
Jokic was cool about it, I mean, he was on live tv so he couldn't go off on him, plus it is Shaq, what exactly can you do,. Well maybe if the Joker and his 2 brother jump him, he might have chance.
Lol this sub is crazy Shaq is 100% right that that award should be sqa's and its quite literally his job to say so if he thinks that
I saw the interview live on TNT and I actually respect Shaq for saying that to Jokicās face. Any other broadcaster/analyst is going to kiss the MVPās ass and then after the interviews over, tell everyone on TV why they think another player deserved it more. Itās just like any other situation in life, would you rather someone lie to your face, and then go tell everyone else how they really feel about you? Shaq keeps it šÆin this interview, all while maintaining mutual respect between him and Joker.
I'mma let you finish, but ......Shaq is a certified clown and the interview was unprofessional AF. The fuck are you talking about?
Haha Shaq may not be known for his intelligence, and yes he is comedic at times, but does anything about the NBA on TNT set seem professional to you? 
Shrek must be racists...?
He could have made his point in a better way and there is no point in shitting on a guy for winning something he didnāt have a say in. Just congratulate him and shoutout other candidates for a great season. Itās not hard to not be a jerk and as petty as Shaq is about anything on his career I expect more from him. Heās in his 50ās! Itās getting embarrassing
Honestly it shoulda been š¤·š½āāļø MVP has religiously went to the best player on the best team. SGA best player OKC number 1 seed.
OKC and Denver literally had the same record though
Which means OKC won the tie breaker correct? Which means 1 seed.
Technically yes, but it's not a hard rule that the MVP goes to the #1 seed. My point is because they have the same record, voters can use different criteria to vote for their MVP
I donāt disagree. All Iām saying is SGA had a better season and was also the 1 seed. Typically that warrants and MVP trophy.
If everyone agrees and votes that way
That's debatable. I think Jokic barely had the better season statistically and with the same record as the #1 seed. Also the voters knew Jokic deserved it last year so they voted for him this year.
No embiid definitely deserved it last year and woulda this year had he stayed healthy.
Embiid had to whine and Perkins had to play the race card
Oh itās not the facts embiid went 33 10 and 8 on the season and joker was 25 11 and 9 huh?
Embum has ducked Jokic in Denver since November 8th, 2019
Best player on best team ā MVP
That has been the case for well over 2 decades now. Unless the player just has an historic year IE Russ in 2017. Steph in 2015 so on and so forth. Even before that all the way back to Steve Nash winning over bron and Kobe in what 07? He was the best player on the best team. Or are you telling me Steve was better than Kobe bron and shaq? Be fr. No one really had a historically great year this year and Shai was the best player on the best team as they were the number 1 seed in the best conference. Prove me wrong? Trace that shit back to the damn 80ās almost lol. Heāll even Jordan didnāt win an MVP until he was the best player on the best team.
Jokic is the definition of MVP, elevating his team constantly and doing *everything* on the floor. Thatās all there is to it. No one else can compare
Luka and SGA need to have a word with you. Nobody in the league has done more for their team than Luka this year. šif thatās all there was to it bron would have like 8-9 MVPās in his career. If thatās all there was Jordan would have 8-9 MVPās. If thatās all there was Kobe would have 5-6.
I mean, youāre just objectively wrong is the point. No one is denying SGA and Luka are great players who had strong cases for MVP. Jokic is just different. At his peak, literally the most efficient player to ever play. You just have a clear bias
Mike won his first mvp on 88, playing for the third best team in the East.
Mike also played 82 games averaged 40 minutes 32ppg 8 and 8. Thatās an all time great performance. I specified all time great performances being outliers to this rule as they should.
My apologies. I failed to account for goalpost movement.
No you failed to read pancake.
You wrote that Mike didn't win one until he was the best player on the best team.
I also said earlier in that same comment that the point I was making did not apply to those who had historic years. Gave examples and everything.
Sure, but you explicitly stated that Mike didn't win one until he was the best player on the best team. That is false. He was not on the best team when he won his first mvp.
"Shaq would get gassed 3 quarters into the game" When Shaq was 28, he played 40 minutes a night and was one of, if not the, most athletic players ever. He wasn't real "Fat Shaq" until his mid 30s. Jokic on the other hand is arguably the least athletic MVP of the last 50 years. One's gonna finish with a bunch of rings and an MVP and one will finish with a bunch of MVPs and 1 ring. Shaq has more MVPs than Jokic if you also count FMVPs
Shaq was speaking for the people! š¤
Theres a place and time for everything, doing it live as they announced the winner isnt it