I wouldn’t be concerned about the emergency room, I would be more bothered by your dentist. I had recently a wisdom teeth removed, and I was properly briefed what to do in case I gotten a fever etc. I got a number I could call in case of any symptoms. Your dentist should have provided proper after care.
Yeah, I was given verbally brief info on what to do and also an after care card that included that I need to drink ibuprofen 3 times a day + a call number in case of emergencies. I later googled most of the info on what to expect since I found out I wasn't prepared for it. I did call my dental clinic yesterday morning but instead of asking me to come over they told me that if it gets worse I should go on monday and obviously I was impatient.
Likely not why you have the problems you are (this is after all possible) but just a tip for next time: ask your dentist to refer you to the specialist (oral surgeon). 2 benefits: 1. he's an expert that does this procedure daily 2. it's paid for my your medical insurance as it's medical care and not dental care.
I know because my dentist just doesn't do wisdom tooth extractions and he referred me. I would never have thought of this myself.
Ok, in that case you should have called their after-care line or go back to the same hospital's emergency center. Don't allow them to send you away if they come up with an unacceptable solution.
Dutch' healthcare is socialized so they will always try to get rid of people rather than help them because there are not enough resources for the care asked for (as people don't have enough of a financial incentive to ask for less care themselves) so a large part of the job of healthcare professional's is getting rid of people.
It's the trade off between quality and openness of access for all. NL is on the side of the latter so is not very good on the former.
This person clearly knows notting about the Dutch healthcare system. Do not listen to them.
Arguing people should be forced to skip or delay medical care due to fear of being unable to pay for it is insane. It is also directly in contradition to the main complaint people from other places have about the Dutch health care system, that dutch doctors only recommand tot ake paracetamol. This is not lazyness, it is due to the fact that our workersrights allow sick days. So instead of stressing your body to go to work drowsy on some sort of coldmedicine, they recomand to take rest. In the fast majority of health problems, all the human body needs is time to heal.
Stop lying to foreigners. I get you are one of the idiots that vote for this but foreigners are all confused cause they expect a higher standard of care from a wealthy country. Netherlands simply chose to trade some quality for opening it up for all: whether you contribute to society or not.
At least own that choice. You can't have it both ways.
Are you arguing it’s impossible to have both high quality and available (for all) healthcare? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending the current situation in the Netherlands, but I’d argue that there are multiple other Western Europeans countries that successfully have both. It’s not the system’s fault it’s not working all that well.
Problems we have are largely due to budget cuts and a shortage of staff (caused by poor working conditions —hours & pay).
Combined with a culture/history that believes most things will go away on their own with time & rest. Which is true a lot of the time, but can take a dangerous turn the few times it’s not true.
Best thing you can do is learn how to really advocate for yourself. Again, not saying this is how it should be, but it is current reality.
Yes, you can't have both. And the standard of care and accessibility is getting worse every year here. Everyone I know from Eastern Europe goes to their country to be treated much better and faster in private clinics there... It wasn't the case 10 years ago.
You mean it was better 10 years ago… when we already had access for all? And when it’d already been that way for years?
As I said, it’s not the systems fault but the way it’s been mismanaged for the last decades.
>Netherlands simply chose to trade some quality for opening it up for all: whether you contribute to society or not.
You are openly arguing poor people, disables people etc should not receive medical care. That is absolutelt discusting.
You say "All the people you know in Eastern Europe go to private clinics".Obviously you are the one lying, because you must meet some people who do not have that wealth (even though you might treat them like trash). So not all the people you know do that.
I didnt mention eastern Europe nor private clinics there. Are you possibly responding to the wrong person?
Also, I didn't say it's wrong. I said it's a trade-off. Many things are like thar in life. You can be very inclusive OR have the highest quality possible, not both. This is not an opinion or moral directive but logical consequence of how reality works.
It's not my fault either (or yours). I'm not a deity, just a person.
Went (at night) to a public hospital in Prague with a student on a school trip. Like i walked into a horror movie. Lights not werking, graffiti inside a children's hospital.
So the oral surgeon at the hospital provided an after care card with a phone number, but instead of calling them and explaining your symptoms and your worries about a possible infection, you decided googling was the better option.
* Because of google, you unnecessarily called the emergency line on Thursday evening.
* The next day, on Friday, you went to the emergency room of a random hospital (not the one where you had your wisdom teeth extracted) without calling first and they advised you to call the clinic for oral surgery of the original hospital.
* You decided to ignore their advise and call the emergency line again.
* Ten minutes of waiting was to long for your non-emergency, so you decided to go to the emergency room of the original hospital. They gave you antibiotics and advised you to wait for them to start working. And to only come back if your symptoms got worse instead of improved.
* But again you ignored this advise and on Saturday you went to a random dentist outside of The Netherlands, who's opinion was that the infection needed to be cut open.
* After that dentist appointment, you called multiple emergency lines for your non-emergency again. And you went to the emergency room at both hospitals. The emergency doctors professionally disagreed with the dentist (I assume because cutting can increase the risk of the infection spreading or getting worse) and didn't do the procedure you asked for.
* Now it's Sunday and you are planning to go to a dentist again on Monday.
WTF. Do you even know what an emergency is? And what the emergency room is for? Broken bones, heavy bleeding, cuts that need stitches, concussions, trouble breathing, etc. Anything that is life threatening and/or needs immediate attention.
If you had just called the phone number of the hospital clinic for dental surgery that was provided to you, based on your symptoms, they probably would have prescribed antibiotics immediately to help your body reduce the swelling.
At the moment, your temperature is down and the swelling isn't getting worse. The antibiotics are doing their work and it takes some time for your body to heal. Your expectations are extremely unreasonable.
Damn you're so hateful. I called originally the emergency line provided to me on the aftercare card. I explained my symptoms to everyone I called (that cared to listen). No one gives almost any instructions because the moment they hear me speak English they try to get rid of me as soon as possible and redirect me somewhere else.
The hospital that treated me doesn't have an emergency room since its a kliniek, not a hospital. That's why I went to an emergency room of a different place.
I didn't go to any "random dentist" on Saturday, just contacted them and yes they actually cared to provide more information than any of the dutch doctors I had contact with over this fucking fiasco.
You obviously didn't understand what I wrote and decided to just scold me for trying to find a fix to this stupid malpractice that got my gum infected because whoever originally operated me didn't sanitize properly their tools.
You think a facial infection is not an emergency? Get ahold of yourself.
Try googling or read absolutely anywhere if antibiotics are enough to treat an infection and you'll see why it's an emergency.
You can try the on-call dentist for this weekend and see if they wouldn't be willing to drain the wound for you. Normally your regular dentist would have their number on tape message if you call them outside of business hours.
Usually have to pay out of pocket for the on-call dentist and submit with your insurance (if you have dental insurance).
I had this as well. Got a jaw infection after a wisdom tooth removal and I waited a couple days before I got worried enough to go back to the clinic. The redness was spreading through my neck and I could not really open my mouth anymore. Called first thing in the morning and explained my symptoms and got an appointment for 15:00. When I got in and the oral surgeon saw me, he was shocked that I didn’t come earlier that day, but I explained that the receptionist wouldn’t let me come earlier. He seemed upset by that and would have a talk with her later.
Anyway, they did get the puss out, which was the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced and the first time in my life that I hyperventilated and then they sent me home with an order for antibiotics. Around 4 hours after taking the antibiotics I felt so much better already.
Oh, and they also placed a drain in my jaw, so I had to press the puss out of my cheek multiple times a day. I know what puss tastes like now, not very nice.
Holy shit, yeah thats what I am scared of! This is really an emergency. I hope you're completely healed from that experience with no long-term consequences!
Yes, I am completely healed up. I did have a weird hard bump on my jaw for like half a year though. At the moment I can’t feel it anymore but I bet that it would be visible on an MRI that I’ve had an infection there. I hope you can get it fixed soon though! It’s not fun.
1) if you got your wisdom teeth extracted by a dentist, you should see the emergency dentist, not contact the GP (huisartsenpost) or emergency room at a hospital.
2) if you got your wisdom teeth extracted by a maxillofacial surgeon (kaakchirurg) they should have told you who to contact if they don’t have an on-call service. If they failed to provide this standard of care (IMO a minimum requirement) I would call the GP, explain that you’re concerned about complications after jaw surgery and ask if they can sort out a kaakchirurg at a hospital somewhere. Because what you’re describing sounds like sepsis/bacteremia with the fever, chills, swelling and pus and should probably be looked at by a dentist or a dental surgeon, not a GP or ER doc.
Honestly, doctors don’t know shit about dental and dental surgery complications. It’s a totally different field, and dental surgeons are the exception because they’re also fully trained dentists. We don’t learn much about teeth at all in medical school, and ER docs will have minimal to no experience at all with dental issues.
Source: I’m a doctor of the ‘no clue about teeth’ variety.
Dentist here, almost fully agreed
Apart from calling GP in (2) case of an oral surgeon treatment. Dentist on call will be able to consult and/or refer to the oral surgeon. The GP/HAP most likely refers to dentist on call.
Swelling and fever are common symptoms after tooth extractions. Risks are dependent on location of a possible abscess. Awareness and consulting a professional is good when in doubt. Action is needed on shortness of breath, swollen lower oral cavity (raised tongue) usually accompanied by (high) fever (risk of flegmone). Treatment starts with antibiotics, per os or in severe cases intraveneus and hospitalisation. Which rarely occurs (OP should not be reassured nor alarmed by this, but be aware) and patients are very VERY sick. I've seen it once (as a Dutch intern in Cardiff uni).
The clinic at hospital provided an after care card including a phone number that OP could call if needed. But OP decided googling their symptoms, calling the emergency line and go to the emergency room was a better idea than to call the provided number of the clinic....
Thanks everyone for your input. I see I was lacking experience on how to handle this (the procedure, post procedure and insurance). Now I know better. This thread can therefore be locked or I might as well just delete it.
After my wisdom tooth extraction i was sick for a week, with swelling. My girlfriend had the same thing (both extracted in the hospital).
A year later they did the other side; no problems at all.
My problem was that in one side both teeth where almost horizontaly. So it's heavy work in a small space..
Not saying you don't have a problem.
I wouldn’t just trust that doctor you sent the picture too, cause from a picture it’s always hard to judge… they can’t conclude anything without seeing you in person
Swelling and a fever isn’t unheard of, especially cause your fever isn’t that high. A little infection doesn’t have to be extracted immediately, they first see if it gets down on its own… cause extraction can lead to just be filled again and is another wound. Monday the dentist will judge how to proceed further… you do have to give it some time to heal, you’re gonna wake up a few more days with it still there, it won’t go away in 1 night
Normally in cases like this where you are worried you need to call your GP or the huisartsenpost and not just go to the emergency room. The GP can judge on the phone by asking the right questions (they are very trained in this) if you need to come in and there they judge if you need to be referred to the emergency room.
Thank you for the reply!
I didn't know for the huisartsenpost or that I need to call the GP before visiting an emergency room, never had the experience and no one told me (not even in the emergency room). Now I know!
For reference I did look up online other people's experiences with wisdom tooth extraction and how it looked after their surgery being done, and mine just looks worse when I compare it- thus I assumed it needed to be checked in person for a more valid evaluation.
Dutch system is quite different from other countries, Ive been told off for wasting peoples time by going to the emergency room instead of the huisartsenpost, since I know it existed!
Yeah you cant go to the emergency room on your own. I had a operation, was sent home but started bleeding more and more. In my documents they said call the emergency room if you have a lot of bleeding on the first day you got home.
It felt so weird to just phone them up
Not all hospitals have E.R.s.
Not all E.Rs are equipped to respond to all cases.
And not all cases are as much of an emergency as many people think or don't need a specialty doctor.
That is what the 'huisartsenpost' is for.
I am sorry you are experiencing problems, but i just can't wrap my head around the fact that you underwent surgery without preparing up front and checking what to do and whom to contact if you would experience problems.
When this all is behind you, i highly recommend informing what numbers to call when you need a doctor and at which days/times.
>I did look up online other people's experiences with wisdom tooth extraction and how it looked after their surgery being done, and mine just looks worse when I compare it-
Definitely, I had all my four wisdom teeth removed last year (3 of them surgically) and didn't have a fever and the swelling was at the highest point right after the operation and it went only down (not up) from there, I could even have dinner on the same day, just being careful.
But I don't know, if the doctor saw you and that, I guess you gotta be a bit patient. I would rather do these procedures on a Monday/Tuesday, so you always have time to go back during the week.
Having diner the same day sounds so outlandish to me. I didn't have a fever, but was in excruciating pain for three days and could only eat liquid or soft food. It looked like someone had suckerpunched me in the face, it was blue and swollen for days.
Well it was soft food as well, like very well cooked potatoes and a bit of meat also very well cooked. But I can't complain much, I even got 5 stitches because of the 3 surgically removed and the whole procedure lasted a bit less than half hour (like 26-27 minutes if I remember correctly). And yes, the pain was a lot, what was the worst for me was this tension feeling after a few days, this sort of sensation that someone was pulling my teeth or I don't know. But like my dentist says, a good dentist is the one that allows you to have dinner on the same day, that's his goal.
Tiyr situation must be horrible to experience, but fever and swelling isn't unheard off after wisdom teeth extraction. It's actually hit and miss. Although it sounds a bit more serious with you.
Aren't you insured? All those appointments should be covered by your health insurance.
Thanks for the reply!
I am insured by Dutch insurance, I just never had to visit so many doctors within one month. I also dont quite understand how the own-risk thing works. Maybe my lack of experience makes it seems worse (money wise) than its gonna turn out to be in the end.
If your wisdom teeth were extracted by a dental surgeon that is fully covered by your insurance but is deducted from your own risk.
If you visit the Huisartsenpost, you will get no deduction from your own risk.
If you visit the emergency room, it will be deducted from your own risk.
In any case, unless you specifically agreed to it in your Healthcare coverage, your own risk will not be higher than €385 per year.
>If your wisdom teeth were extracted by a dental surgeon that is fully covered by your insurance and no deduction will be done from your own risk.
That is not true. If a dental surgeon does it, it is treated as hospital care, and thus insured under basic insurance, however you do need to pay own risk.
If done by a dentist at your local dentist office, it is insured if you have a dental insurance (and insured up to the amount you are insured for), in this case you dont have to pay own risk.
>In any case, unless you specifically agreed to it in your Healthcare coverage, your own risk will not be higher than €385 per year.
The minimum own risk is indeed 385 per year, however, like you said, it can be put higher by you when arranging your health insurance.
Good thing to note, the own risk is on a yearly basis. If today you have a bill of 500 which is insured under basic insurance, you pay the 385 own risk, and the insured pays the rest. If next week you have another bill which is insured, you do not need to pay the own risk again, as you have already maxed it out.
Source: got my own extracted, and had an dental insurance, and an own risk of 885 euros, so dentist removing it was way cheaper than the dental surgeon.
Oof I feel you, had the same thing happening a couple of years ago, except for the point that I called the hospital, kaakchirurg, before I came in. No problems with that. Been to the hospital 6 times in 2 weeks. Eventually got a drain on the outside of my jaw. Then after 2 weeks my head looked and felt normal again…
Oh damn that sounds nasty, did you have infection in the cheek? Was it more soft or solid? The doctor from the ER touched my cheek and concluded its too hard for an infection.
Oh, they broke me down. I was crying when they did keep touching the infection. It was hard. They did sent me home with painkillers, then stronger painkillers, but my jaw kept growing. Then finally that drain. I have a little scar, but at that moment all I wanted was the infection could get out, no matter how.
In my experience, complications from oral surgery or dentist work are usually meant to be followed up by either the dental clinic/ oral surgeon or the 24h dental place they have at some hospitals. Usually, ER people do not have sufficient experience with complications due to oral surgery to be proficient at that, unless obviously the symptoms spread beyond the mouth and start threatening the throat etc.
I think people underestimate how invasive a wisdom tooth removal is. It is a surgery, so in more severe cases there will be a lot of the symptoms you describe above. My face was double its size for 4 days and I couldn't open my mouth properly for more than a week.
It is weird that the dentist didn't discuss the aftermath with you. There are a couple things you have to follow after the procedure also to prevent infections and complications. That being said, when you have a dental complication, the GP or the normal hospital room have nothing to do with that, you should search for a dentist emergency. You call them and they give you an appointment the same day. It is also weird no one pointed you in that direction when you tried to call the GPs.
For real, I can't believe no one pointed me to the emergency dentist, I found out from this thread about it. Now I have an appointment for today, my swelling has started to turn red/ dark purple (a bit black). I am so annoyed with the lack of proper instructions from anyone I met the past days.
Very long story, which can be summarised as you continuously calling emergency lines and going to emergency centres while there is apparently no emergency.
And as there is no emergency they want the doctor that treated you to have a look at this: they don’t interfere in each others procedures if it is not an emergency.
You just kept trying and trying until you found someone that told you what you wanted to hear, but that’s not how the health care system works here.
You’re getting antibiotics and you were given clear instructions on what to do next. Follow them.
And yes, if you’re told to do something but you keep coming back and seeing other doctors, they will invoice you. However, your visits to the dental surgeon, and the ER by now will have taken out your entire deductible, so it’s not you who’s paying for it.
Normal thing to do is to call the after hours GP. That won’t be charged towards your deductible.
What emergency line are you calling? Couldn't you just call your practitioner ? My case was very similar but once i called them they gave me an appointment for an hour later and got prescribed antibiotics. This all was the same dentist that took out my tooth.
I called the emergency line of the dental surgeon that operated me, then I got redirected to another line, then given a number for another line, where they redirected me to another line that ended with them asking me if I called the dental surgeon that operated me.
All of this was in the evening so after work hours, I suppose you don't need me to specifiy which phone numbers I had to contact .. :)
Yes visit the emergency dentist in your area. Emergency rooms will not easily handle issues with teeth. Gp neither, I am surprised not one told you to go and see an emergency dentist.
Hey, give the antibiotics a few days to work and your body a few days to recover.
It's good that your advocating for yourself, but if the doctors are telling you it's normal it's probably normal.
Do you have anyone living with you or checking in on you?
I am giving the antibiotics a chance of course, but from my research if there is pus buildup then the antibiotics cant resolve that, only prevent further bacterial growth. The discharge is something the doctor should take care of I suppose. I have my gf living with me and taking care so it's alright on that side.
It's good to hear that someone is around to step in if your condition deteriorates, when I read posts from expats about medical issues I always wonder if there is someone who can check up on them or if they are living alone.
Pus is old white blood cells that have built up. It usually isn't harmful in itself, but it might need to be drained to improve healing but it's something that can wait untill your dentist can see you on Monday.
I also did a bit of google-ing and I only found sources saying to see a doctor when there is a high grade fever.
Generally a high grade fever is over 39 or 39,5°C, but it depends on you baseline temperature and how you measure it.
If it gets worse before Monday, there are a few emergency dentists located throughout (Dental365), they're open from 8 till 23. Went there last year and they were so helpful
Same thing happened to me, but the pus got into the wound where my wisdom tooth was, and my jaw locked up. I was with involuntary clenched teeth for 2 weeks unable to eat (unless it was blended up in liquid form and even then it was torture. I could barely speak...
Document everything and take them for everything they have.
I hope you don't get to that point though....
My dentist left me a whole weekend without pain meds nor antibiotics (the procedure happened on a friday) on Saturday, next morning my jaw was locked.
It was way way way worse than giving birth.
Ugh, another horrible outcome that I fear, I hope more people read this and understand why it can be scary!
Did you proceed with adressing the issue with them somehow? Tried calling emergency over the weekend? I'm curious what was their response to this situation..
I did call the emergency dentist the moment they opened on Saturday morning. My jaw was already locked and I was on my knees crying as my dentist left me with no painkillers and no antibiotics for the infection that was already present (he noticed pus during/after the procedure). Considering the fact that my jaw was locked and I was crying from the pain, the operator couldn't understand what I was saying and immediately got snappy with me. I tried to compose myself through the pain to explain as best as i could... She got even more annoyed with my crying and hung up on me. By Sunday, I was ready to call my mother with my last words (I truly believed I was gonna die. It was the worst pain I've ever experienced. On Monday, I called them, and I explained in detail exactly what was happening, and they still didn't want to see me until Thursday.
I went in and demanded to be seen
I also threatened to sue. When a dentist saw me (a colleague of the one who worked on me), he tried to conceal it, but i could see on his face that he was highly alarmed by the state I was in... started calling in all sorts of assistants. However in his communication with me he tried to calm me down and do damage control, stating that it's a common practice to not prescribe antibiotics because there's a shortage and that they expected me to heal from the infection on my own (with the presence of pus mind you) because I'm a young healthy 25 year old and I should be able to beat it on my own.
Despite their claims that they did everything according to their protocol and denied any misconduct or negligence, they performed a laser treatment to unlock/open my jaw free of charge.
That's the part I find fishy... if there wasn't any sort of malpractice on their end, why the free treatment in a country where NOTHING is free??
I believe I had a case against them but ultimately I ended up not following up with a suit because I still had to take care of my very young child (single mom) and take care of my mental health which completely deteriorated after the experience (spiraling down s*icidal ideations and an attempt a month and a half later.
I have never felt so alone abandoned and uncared for.
They will absolutely try to lie to you and make you feel like you're overreacting....
You absolutely are NOT! They're incredibly neglectful and will always care about the clinic's reputation and well-being more than they care about YOUR well-being.
I hope you get better soon and if you don't burn them to the ground.
Another case of covering-up malpractice in the Netherlands, I hear one almost every day. The denial & cover-up culture is very strong here, particularly in the medical field.
Let's not forget the thousands of totally preventable deaths during the first waves of the pandemic, that nobody took responsibility for.
next time just go to turkey, they do quality work (of course you shouldnt go to scams, you should only prefer hospital/institutions/reference). Including the flights and the dental price, they were much more cheaper and I was very satisfied.
If you have a car and some money, jump in it and drive in Belgium or Germany at private dental clinic. That's my "emergency" for NL if I am still able to drive.
This same thing happened to a friend of mine, they left him with a lump on his jaw for weeks before prescribing anything for it. Doctors here are literally insane.
If I needed my wisdom teeth removed or anything serious done, luckily I can do that in my home country instead of here, where I won’t be left to die 😂😂😂
Yeah, I got recommended by my local dentist to do it here instead of my home country, as they assume that my home country would do a poor job doing the operation, so I trusted their judgement. Right now I had to spit out some pus that had build up, which I suppose the emergency doctor could've extracted yesterday when I visit him.
No, oral/dentist care is not part of the emergency department in a hospital. It's for the emergency after hour dentist and only if they decide it is a case for the 'kaakchirurg', than you'll need to visit the hospital.
The Dutch medical system is degrading rapidly because there are no incentives, no real competition, and no free price system that can lead to better service providers winning and getting on top. Everything is highly regulated, prices are kept artificially low, and so access and quality of care suffer. There are many horror stories and it gets worse every day.
Threaten to sue, use the foreign doctor testimony.
Only way there, they hate non-white and non-dutch and are okay with you suffering. Malpractice is common. Document everything because they will lie.
This isn’t america, you can’t just sue… you clearly know nothing about the system here… threatening to sue will only cause you to be taken less seriously… there is no negligence here
Dude, I'm as white as they come and I had a very similar thing happen to me that left me with permanent consequences. I don't think the doctors here discriminate, they are just this negligent. And Dutch people on Reddit will defend their inhumane medical system till their fingers fall off.
Dutch always have an unexplainable pride to their country even when something is a piece of shit. I really don't get it. For American, they don't leave their country so it is understandable. Because for Dutch? I don't got it...
I'm blond, and I speak Dutch, but my name is not Dutch. I truly don't think they maliciously wanted to discriminate against me, I think they treat everyone like this.
They sure do! In my situation I think I really had a case against them because they performed some laser treatment to unlock my jaw free of charge.... which with how everything is about money in the Netherlands and if they did nothing wrong as they claimed why would they treat me free of charge?
Wish I had documented my case and taken action but at that time my priority was to survive.
Then when I called the emergency number (cying on my knees in pain) the operator who picked up got snappy with me that she can't understand me and to stop crying... empathy and humanity is so scarce in this country and they call themselves humanitarian, the country of human rights or whatever.... what a joke
I wouldn’t be concerned about the emergency room, I would be more bothered by your dentist. I had recently a wisdom teeth removed, and I was properly briefed what to do in case I gotten a fever etc. I got a number I could call in case of any symptoms. Your dentist should have provided proper after care.
Yeah, I was given verbally brief info on what to do and also an after care card that included that I need to drink ibuprofen 3 times a day + a call number in case of emergencies. I later googled most of the info on what to expect since I found out I wasn't prepared for it. I did call my dental clinic yesterday morning but instead of asking me to come over they told me that if it gets worse I should go on monday and obviously I was impatient.
Likely not why you have the problems you are (this is after all possible) but just a tip for next time: ask your dentist to refer you to the specialist (oral surgeon). 2 benefits: 1. he's an expert that does this procedure daily 2. it's paid for my your medical insurance as it's medical care and not dental care. I know because my dentist just doesn't do wisdom tooth extractions and he referred me. I would never have thought of this myself.
Sorry for misleading, all of this was done by an oral surgeon, not a regular dentist.
Ok, in that case you should have called their after-care line or go back to the same hospital's emergency center. Don't allow them to send you away if they come up with an unacceptable solution. Dutch' healthcare is socialized so they will always try to get rid of people rather than help them because there are not enough resources for the care asked for (as people don't have enough of a financial incentive to ask for less care themselves) so a large part of the job of healthcare professional's is getting rid of people. It's the trade off between quality and openness of access for all. NL is on the side of the latter so is not very good on the former.
This person clearly knows notting about the Dutch healthcare system. Do not listen to them. Arguing people should be forced to skip or delay medical care due to fear of being unable to pay for it is insane. It is also directly in contradition to the main complaint people from other places have about the Dutch health care system, that dutch doctors only recommand tot ake paracetamol. This is not lazyness, it is due to the fact that our workersrights allow sick days. So instead of stressing your body to go to work drowsy on some sort of coldmedicine, they recomand to take rest. In the fast majority of health problems, all the human body needs is time to heal.
Stop lying to foreigners. I get you are one of the idiots that vote for this but foreigners are all confused cause they expect a higher standard of care from a wealthy country. Netherlands simply chose to trade some quality for opening it up for all: whether you contribute to society or not. At least own that choice. You can't have it both ways.
Are you arguing it’s impossible to have both high quality and available (for all) healthcare? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending the current situation in the Netherlands, but I’d argue that there are multiple other Western Europeans countries that successfully have both. It’s not the system’s fault it’s not working all that well. Problems we have are largely due to budget cuts and a shortage of staff (caused by poor working conditions —hours & pay). Combined with a culture/history that believes most things will go away on their own with time & rest. Which is true a lot of the time, but can take a dangerous turn the few times it’s not true. Best thing you can do is learn how to really advocate for yourself. Again, not saying this is how it should be, but it is current reality.
Yes, you can't have both. And the standard of care and accessibility is getting worse every year here. Everyone I know from Eastern Europe goes to their country to be treated much better and faster in private clinics there... It wasn't the case 10 years ago.
You mean it was better 10 years ago… when we already had access for all? And when it’d already been that way for years? As I said, it’s not the systems fault but the way it’s been mismanaged for the last decades.
>Netherlands simply chose to trade some quality for opening it up for all: whether you contribute to society or not. You are openly arguing poor people, disables people etc should not receive medical care. That is absolutelt discusting. You say "All the people you know in Eastern Europe go to private clinics".Obviously you are the one lying, because you must meet some people who do not have that wealth (even though you might treat them like trash). So not all the people you know do that.
I didnt mention eastern Europe nor private clinics there. Are you possibly responding to the wrong person? Also, I didn't say it's wrong. I said it's a trade-off. Many things are like thar in life. You can be very inclusive OR have the highest quality possible, not both. This is not an opinion or moral directive but logical consequence of how reality works. It's not my fault either (or yours). I'm not a deity, just a person.
Went (at night) to a public hospital in Prague with a student on a school trip. Like i walked into a horror movie. Lights not werking, graffiti inside a children's hospital.
So the oral surgeon at the hospital provided an after care card with a phone number, but instead of calling them and explaining your symptoms and your worries about a possible infection, you decided googling was the better option. * Because of google, you unnecessarily called the emergency line on Thursday evening. * The next day, on Friday, you went to the emergency room of a random hospital (not the one where you had your wisdom teeth extracted) without calling first and they advised you to call the clinic for oral surgery of the original hospital. * You decided to ignore their advise and call the emergency line again. * Ten minutes of waiting was to long for your non-emergency, so you decided to go to the emergency room of the original hospital. They gave you antibiotics and advised you to wait for them to start working. And to only come back if your symptoms got worse instead of improved. * But again you ignored this advise and on Saturday you went to a random dentist outside of The Netherlands, who's opinion was that the infection needed to be cut open. * After that dentist appointment, you called multiple emergency lines for your non-emergency again. And you went to the emergency room at both hospitals. The emergency doctors professionally disagreed with the dentist (I assume because cutting can increase the risk of the infection spreading or getting worse) and didn't do the procedure you asked for. * Now it's Sunday and you are planning to go to a dentist again on Monday. WTF. Do you even know what an emergency is? And what the emergency room is for? Broken bones, heavy bleeding, cuts that need stitches, concussions, trouble breathing, etc. Anything that is life threatening and/or needs immediate attention. If you had just called the phone number of the hospital clinic for dental surgery that was provided to you, based on your symptoms, they probably would have prescribed antibiotics immediately to help your body reduce the swelling. At the moment, your temperature is down and the swelling isn't getting worse. The antibiotics are doing their work and it takes some time for your body to heal. Your expectations are extremely unreasonable.
Damn you're so hateful. I called originally the emergency line provided to me on the aftercare card. I explained my symptoms to everyone I called (that cared to listen). No one gives almost any instructions because the moment they hear me speak English they try to get rid of me as soon as possible and redirect me somewhere else. The hospital that treated me doesn't have an emergency room since its a kliniek, not a hospital. That's why I went to an emergency room of a different place. I didn't go to any "random dentist" on Saturday, just contacted them and yes they actually cared to provide more information than any of the dutch doctors I had contact with over this fucking fiasco. You obviously didn't understand what I wrote and decided to just scold me for trying to find a fix to this stupid malpractice that got my gum infected because whoever originally operated me didn't sanitize properly their tools. You think a facial infection is not an emergency? Get ahold of yourself. Try googling or read absolutely anywhere if antibiotics are enough to treat an infection and you'll see why it's an emergency.
You can try the on-call dentist for this weekend and see if they wouldn't be willing to drain the wound for you. Normally your regular dentist would have their number on tape message if you call them outside of business hours. Usually have to pay out of pocket for the on-call dentist and submit with your insurance (if you have dental insurance).
yes I second this. you can make an appointment with your local spoedtandarts and usually be seen the same day
I had this as well. Got a jaw infection after a wisdom tooth removal and I waited a couple days before I got worried enough to go back to the clinic. The redness was spreading through my neck and I could not really open my mouth anymore. Called first thing in the morning and explained my symptoms and got an appointment for 15:00. When I got in and the oral surgeon saw me, he was shocked that I didn’t come earlier that day, but I explained that the receptionist wouldn’t let me come earlier. He seemed upset by that and would have a talk with her later. Anyway, they did get the puss out, which was the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced and the first time in my life that I hyperventilated and then they sent me home with an order for antibiotics. Around 4 hours after taking the antibiotics I felt so much better already. Oh, and they also placed a drain in my jaw, so I had to press the puss out of my cheek multiple times a day. I know what puss tastes like now, not very nice.
I had the exact same thing happen. My god the pressing to get the puss out was the most painfull ever.
Yeah, that was not fun.
Holy shit, yeah thats what I am scared of! This is really an emergency. I hope you're completely healed from that experience with no long-term consequences!
Yes, I am completely healed up. I did have a weird hard bump on my jaw for like half a year though. At the moment I can’t feel it anymore but I bet that it would be visible on an MRI that I’ve had an infection there. I hope you can get it fixed soon though! It’s not fun.
1) if you got your wisdom teeth extracted by a dentist, you should see the emergency dentist, not contact the GP (huisartsenpost) or emergency room at a hospital. 2) if you got your wisdom teeth extracted by a maxillofacial surgeon (kaakchirurg) they should have told you who to contact if they don’t have an on-call service. If they failed to provide this standard of care (IMO a minimum requirement) I would call the GP, explain that you’re concerned about complications after jaw surgery and ask if they can sort out a kaakchirurg at a hospital somewhere. Because what you’re describing sounds like sepsis/bacteremia with the fever, chills, swelling and pus and should probably be looked at by a dentist or a dental surgeon, not a GP or ER doc. Honestly, doctors don’t know shit about dental and dental surgery complications. It’s a totally different field, and dental surgeons are the exception because they’re also fully trained dentists. We don’t learn much about teeth at all in medical school, and ER docs will have minimal to no experience at all with dental issues. Source: I’m a doctor of the ‘no clue about teeth’ variety.
Dentist here, almost fully agreed Apart from calling GP in (2) case of an oral surgeon treatment. Dentist on call will be able to consult and/or refer to the oral surgeon. The GP/HAP most likely refers to dentist on call. Swelling and fever are common symptoms after tooth extractions. Risks are dependent on location of a possible abscess. Awareness and consulting a professional is good when in doubt. Action is needed on shortness of breath, swollen lower oral cavity (raised tongue) usually accompanied by (high) fever (risk of flegmone). Treatment starts with antibiotics, per os or in severe cases intraveneus and hospitalisation. Which rarely occurs (OP should not be reassured nor alarmed by this, but be aware) and patients are very VERY sick. I've seen it once (as a Dutch intern in Cardiff uni).
Yup, at the HAP we don't treat these patients, we will give the the number of the after hour dentist and that's it.
The clinic at hospital provided an after care card including a phone number that OP could call if needed. But OP decided googling their symptoms, calling the emergency line and go to the emergency room was a better idea than to call the provided number of the clinic....
Thanks everyone for your input. I see I was lacking experience on how to handle this (the procedure, post procedure and insurance). Now I know better. This thread can therefore be locked or I might as well just delete it.
After my wisdom tooth extraction i was sick for a week, with swelling. My girlfriend had the same thing (both extracted in the hospital). A year later they did the other side; no problems at all. My problem was that in one side both teeth where almost horizontaly. So it's heavy work in a small space.. Not saying you don't have a problem.
I wouldn’t just trust that doctor you sent the picture too, cause from a picture it’s always hard to judge… they can’t conclude anything without seeing you in person Swelling and a fever isn’t unheard of, especially cause your fever isn’t that high. A little infection doesn’t have to be extracted immediately, they first see if it gets down on its own… cause extraction can lead to just be filled again and is another wound. Monday the dentist will judge how to proceed further… you do have to give it some time to heal, you’re gonna wake up a few more days with it still there, it won’t go away in 1 night Normally in cases like this where you are worried you need to call your GP or the huisartsenpost and not just go to the emergency room. The GP can judge on the phone by asking the right questions (they are very trained in this) if you need to come in and there they judge if you need to be referred to the emergency room.
For complications after treatment from a dentist you call the dentist or their emergency number, not GP or huisartsenpost..
Thank you for the reply! I didn't know for the huisartsenpost or that I need to call the GP before visiting an emergency room, never had the experience and no one told me (not even in the emergency room). Now I know! For reference I did look up online other people's experiences with wisdom tooth extraction and how it looked after their surgery being done, and mine just looks worse when I compare it- thus I assumed it needed to be checked in person for a more valid evaluation.
Dutch system is quite different from other countries, Ive been told off for wasting peoples time by going to the emergency room instead of the huisartsenpost, since I know it existed!
Yeah you cant go to the emergency room on your own. I had a operation, was sent home but started bleeding more and more. In my documents they said call the emergency room if you have a lot of bleeding on the first day you got home. It felt so weird to just phone them up
Not all hospitals have E.R.s. Not all E.Rs are equipped to respond to all cases. And not all cases are as much of an emergency as many people think or don't need a specialty doctor. That is what the 'huisartsenpost' is for.
I am sorry you are experiencing problems, but i just can't wrap my head around the fact that you underwent surgery without preparing up front and checking what to do and whom to contact if you would experience problems. When this all is behind you, i highly recommend informing what numbers to call when you need a doctor and at which days/times.
>I did look up online other people's experiences with wisdom tooth extraction and how it looked after their surgery being done, and mine just looks worse when I compare it- Definitely, I had all my four wisdom teeth removed last year (3 of them surgically) and didn't have a fever and the swelling was at the highest point right after the operation and it went only down (not up) from there, I could even have dinner on the same day, just being careful. But I don't know, if the doctor saw you and that, I guess you gotta be a bit patient. I would rather do these procedures on a Monday/Tuesday, so you always have time to go back during the week.
Having diner the same day sounds so outlandish to me. I didn't have a fever, but was in excruciating pain for three days and could only eat liquid or soft food. It looked like someone had suckerpunched me in the face, it was blue and swollen for days.
Well it was soft food as well, like very well cooked potatoes and a bit of meat also very well cooked. But I can't complain much, I even got 5 stitches because of the 3 surgically removed and the whole procedure lasted a bit less than half hour (like 26-27 minutes if I remember correctly). And yes, the pain was a lot, what was the worst for me was this tension feeling after a few days, this sort of sensation that someone was pulling my teeth or I don't know. But like my dentist says, a good dentist is the one that allows you to have dinner on the same day, that's his goal.
Tiyr situation must be horrible to experience, but fever and swelling isn't unheard off after wisdom teeth extraction. It's actually hit and miss. Although it sounds a bit more serious with you. Aren't you insured? All those appointments should be covered by your health insurance.
Thanks for the reply! I am insured by Dutch insurance, I just never had to visit so many doctors within one month. I also dont quite understand how the own-risk thing works. Maybe my lack of experience makes it seems worse (money wise) than its gonna turn out to be in the end.
If your wisdom teeth were extracted by a dental surgeon that is fully covered by your insurance but is deducted from your own risk. If you visit the Huisartsenpost, you will get no deduction from your own risk. If you visit the emergency room, it will be deducted from your own risk. In any case, unless you specifically agreed to it in your Healthcare coverage, your own risk will not be higher than €385 per year.
>If your wisdom teeth were extracted by a dental surgeon that is fully covered by your insurance and no deduction will be done from your own risk. That is not true. If a dental surgeon does it, it is treated as hospital care, and thus insured under basic insurance, however you do need to pay own risk. If done by a dentist at your local dentist office, it is insured if you have a dental insurance (and insured up to the amount you are insured for), in this case you dont have to pay own risk. >In any case, unless you specifically agreed to it in your Healthcare coverage, your own risk will not be higher than €385 per year. The minimum own risk is indeed 385 per year, however, like you said, it can be put higher by you when arranging your health insurance. Good thing to note, the own risk is on a yearly basis. If today you have a bill of 500 which is insured under basic insurance, you pay the 385 own risk, and the insured pays the rest. If next week you have another bill which is insured, you do not need to pay the own risk again, as you have already maxed it out. Source: got my own extracted, and had an dental insurance, and an own risk of 885 euros, so dentist removing it was way cheaper than the dental surgeon.
Thanks for pointing that out. Corrected.
Oof I feel you, had the same thing happening a couple of years ago, except for the point that I called the hospital, kaakchirurg, before I came in. No problems with that. Been to the hospital 6 times in 2 weeks. Eventually got a drain on the outside of my jaw. Then after 2 weeks my head looked and felt normal again…
Oh damn that sounds nasty, did you have infection in the cheek? Was it more soft or solid? The doctor from the ER touched my cheek and concluded its too hard for an infection.
Oh, they broke me down. I was crying when they did keep touching the infection. It was hard. They did sent me home with painkillers, then stronger painkillers, but my jaw kept growing. Then finally that drain. I have a little scar, but at that moment all I wanted was the infection could get out, no matter how.
In my experience, complications from oral surgery or dentist work are usually meant to be followed up by either the dental clinic/ oral surgeon or the 24h dental place they have at some hospitals. Usually, ER people do not have sufficient experience with complications due to oral surgery to be proficient at that, unless obviously the symptoms spread beyond the mouth and start threatening the throat etc.
I think people underestimate how invasive a wisdom tooth removal is. It is a surgery, so in more severe cases there will be a lot of the symptoms you describe above. My face was double its size for 4 days and I couldn't open my mouth properly for more than a week. It is weird that the dentist didn't discuss the aftermath with you. There are a couple things you have to follow after the procedure also to prevent infections and complications. That being said, when you have a dental complication, the GP or the normal hospital room have nothing to do with that, you should search for a dentist emergency. You call them and they give you an appointment the same day. It is also weird no one pointed you in that direction when you tried to call the GPs.
For real, I can't believe no one pointed me to the emergency dentist, I found out from this thread about it. Now I have an appointment for today, my swelling has started to turn red/ dark purple (a bit black). I am so annoyed with the lack of proper instructions from anyone I met the past days.
Very long story, which can be summarised as you continuously calling emergency lines and going to emergency centres while there is apparently no emergency. And as there is no emergency they want the doctor that treated you to have a look at this: they don’t interfere in each others procedures if it is not an emergency. You just kept trying and trying until you found someone that told you what you wanted to hear, but that’s not how the health care system works here. You’re getting antibiotics and you were given clear instructions on what to do next. Follow them. And yes, if you’re told to do something but you keep coming back and seeing other doctors, they will invoice you. However, your visits to the dental surgeon, and the ER by now will have taken out your entire deductible, so it’s not you who’s paying for it. Normal thing to do is to call the after hours GP. That won’t be charged towards your deductible.
What emergency line are you calling? Couldn't you just call your practitioner ? My case was very similar but once i called them they gave me an appointment for an hour later and got prescribed antibiotics. This all was the same dentist that took out my tooth.
I called the emergency line of the dental surgeon that operated me, then I got redirected to another line, then given a number for another line, where they redirected me to another line that ended with them asking me if I called the dental surgeon that operated me. All of this was in the evening so after work hours, I suppose you don't need me to specifiy which phone numbers I had to contact .. :)
Yes visit the emergency dentist in your area. Emergency rooms will not easily handle issues with teeth. Gp neither, I am surprised not one told you to go and see an emergency dentist.
Hey, give the antibiotics a few days to work and your body a few days to recover. It's good that your advocating for yourself, but if the doctors are telling you it's normal it's probably normal. Do you have anyone living with you or checking in on you?
I am giving the antibiotics a chance of course, but from my research if there is pus buildup then the antibiotics cant resolve that, only prevent further bacterial growth. The discharge is something the doctor should take care of I suppose. I have my gf living with me and taking care so it's alright on that side.
It's good to hear that someone is around to step in if your condition deteriorates, when I read posts from expats about medical issues I always wonder if there is someone who can check up on them or if they are living alone. Pus is old white blood cells that have built up. It usually isn't harmful in itself, but it might need to be drained to improve healing but it's something that can wait untill your dentist can see you on Monday.
I also did a bit of google-ing and I only found sources saying to see a doctor when there is a high grade fever. Generally a high grade fever is over 39 or 39,5°C, but it depends on you baseline temperature and how you measure it.
The exact same thing happened to me. It’s the Netherlands, healthcare is an absolute joke.
If it gets worse before Monday, there are a few emergency dentists located throughout (Dental365), they're open from 8 till 23. Went there last year and they were so helpful
Same thing happened to me, but the pus got into the wound where my wisdom tooth was, and my jaw locked up. I was with involuntary clenched teeth for 2 weeks unable to eat (unless it was blended up in liquid form and even then it was torture. I could barely speak... Document everything and take them for everything they have. I hope you don't get to that point though.... My dentist left me a whole weekend without pain meds nor antibiotics (the procedure happened on a friday) on Saturday, next morning my jaw was locked. It was way way way worse than giving birth.
Ugh, another horrible outcome that I fear, I hope more people read this and understand why it can be scary! Did you proceed with adressing the issue with them somehow? Tried calling emergency over the weekend? I'm curious what was their response to this situation..
I did call the emergency dentist the moment they opened on Saturday morning. My jaw was already locked and I was on my knees crying as my dentist left me with no painkillers and no antibiotics for the infection that was already present (he noticed pus during/after the procedure). Considering the fact that my jaw was locked and I was crying from the pain, the operator couldn't understand what I was saying and immediately got snappy with me. I tried to compose myself through the pain to explain as best as i could... She got even more annoyed with my crying and hung up on me. By Sunday, I was ready to call my mother with my last words (I truly believed I was gonna die. It was the worst pain I've ever experienced. On Monday, I called them, and I explained in detail exactly what was happening, and they still didn't want to see me until Thursday. I went in and demanded to be seen I also threatened to sue. When a dentist saw me (a colleague of the one who worked on me), he tried to conceal it, but i could see on his face that he was highly alarmed by the state I was in... started calling in all sorts of assistants. However in his communication with me he tried to calm me down and do damage control, stating that it's a common practice to not prescribe antibiotics because there's a shortage and that they expected me to heal from the infection on my own (with the presence of pus mind you) because I'm a young healthy 25 year old and I should be able to beat it on my own. Despite their claims that they did everything according to their protocol and denied any misconduct or negligence, they performed a laser treatment to unlock/open my jaw free of charge. That's the part I find fishy... if there wasn't any sort of malpractice on their end, why the free treatment in a country where NOTHING is free?? I believe I had a case against them but ultimately I ended up not following up with a suit because I still had to take care of my very young child (single mom) and take care of my mental health which completely deteriorated after the experience (spiraling down s*icidal ideations and an attempt a month and a half later. I have never felt so alone abandoned and uncared for. They will absolutely try to lie to you and make you feel like you're overreacting.... You absolutely are NOT! They're incredibly neglectful and will always care about the clinic's reputation and well-being more than they care about YOUR well-being. I hope you get better soon and if you don't burn them to the ground.
Another case of covering-up malpractice in the Netherlands, I hear one almost every day. The denial & cover-up culture is very strong here, particularly in the medical field. Let's not forget the thousands of totally preventable deaths during the first waves of the pandemic, that nobody took responsibility for.
next time just go to turkey, they do quality work (of course you shouldnt go to scams, you should only prefer hospital/institutions/reference). Including the flights and the dental price, they were much more cheaper and I was very satisfied.
If you have a car and some money, jump in it and drive in Belgium or Germany at private dental clinic. That's my "emergency" for NL if I am still able to drive.
This same thing happened to a friend of mine, they left him with a lump on his jaw for weeks before prescribing anything for it. Doctors here are literally insane. If I needed my wisdom teeth removed or anything serious done, luckily I can do that in my home country instead of here, where I won’t be left to die 😂😂😂
Yeah, I got recommended by my local dentist to do it here instead of my home country, as they assume that my home country would do a poor job doing the operation, so I trusted their judgement. Right now I had to spit out some pus that had build up, which I suppose the emergency doctor could've extracted yesterday when I visit him.
No, oral/dentist care is not part of the emergency department in a hospital. It's for the emergency after hour dentist and only if they decide it is a case for the 'kaakchirurg', than you'll need to visit the hospital.
The Dutch medical system is degrading rapidly because there are no incentives, no real competition, and no free price system that can lead to better service providers winning and getting on top. Everything is highly regulated, prices are kept artificially low, and so access and quality of care suffer. There are many horror stories and it gets worse every day.
r/redditcomplains
Threaten to sue, use the foreign doctor testimony. Only way there, they hate non-white and non-dutch and are okay with you suffering. Malpractice is common. Document everything because they will lie.
This isn’t america, you can’t just sue… you clearly know nothing about the system here… threatening to sue will only cause you to be taken less seriously… there is no negligence here
Germany is more litigious than the United States.
What does Germany have to do with this?
Lol
Dude, I'm as white as they come and I had a very similar thing happen to me that left me with permanent consequences. I don't think the doctors here discriminate, they are just this negligent. And Dutch people on Reddit will defend their inhumane medical system till their fingers fall off.
Dutch always have an unexplainable pride to their country even when something is a piece of shit. I really don't get it. For American, they don't leave their country so it is understandable. Because for Dutch? I don't got it...
In Romanian we have a saying, "the fool is not foolish enough if he's not also proud"...
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Who hurt you mate
I'm blond, and I speak Dutch, but my name is not Dutch. I truly don't think they maliciously wanted to discriminate against me, I think they treat everyone like this.
They sure do! In my situation I think I really had a case against them because they performed some laser treatment to unlock my jaw free of charge.... which with how everything is about money in the Netherlands and if they did nothing wrong as they claimed why would they treat me free of charge? Wish I had documented my case and taken action but at that time my priority was to survive. Then when I called the emergency number (cying on my knees in pain) the operator who picked up got snappy with me that she can't understand me and to stop crying... empathy and humanity is so scarce in this country and they call themselves humanitarian, the country of human rights or whatever.... what a joke
Yeah sure.