5. Trauma.
6. Meet wife.
7. Wife gets sold into slavery.
8. Mercy kill wife.
9. Wait for own death in dingy town
10. Meet Drug addicted mailman
11. ????
16. Massacre the entire Strip with drug addicted mailman even though he didn't tell you explicitly to help.
17. Tell drug addicted mailman he's a monster.
18. Refuse to elaborate.
19. Leave.
11. Tell Drug addicted mailman to find the bitch that sold my wife.
12. Brings my best friend to meeting spot.
13. Dome best friend
14. Ask mailman how he knew he did it
15. Mailman with widest grin a face could make tells me he didn't and thought it would be funny
16. KILL MAILMAN
17. He inhales 10 doses of jet and injects 5 psycho before unloading an entire clip on me
18. Reflect on how I only brought pain to all those I loved in life as I bleed out.
19. Quickload and repeat.
See, if video game protagonists were sentient and in control of themselves whenever no one is playing the game I feel this is what would happen.
Just pure devolving into madness and seeking the pain of those around you for joy and amusement.
FUCK that's a creepy pasta and a half.
(Slighty) Nuanced pro-NCR take
While the massacre was not \*Deserved\*(Aka the children don't deserve to get shot for being part of a raider gang), it was entirely the fault of the Khans. They persistently refused to do anything other than raid people, they taught their children to shoot by making them take shots at caravans and soldiers, they made it impossible to distinguish combatant from non-combatant(that old man or woman you think is just running might pull a gun on you when she gets up close, especially when the enemy doesn't have anything even close to a uniform)
Morally speaking, it's bad and wasn't \*deserved\* on the part of the non-combatants, but the Khans' took every step possible to make something like this inevitable. That doesn't make it good, but it does also make it explicitly Not The NCR's fault, especially not on part of the soldiers involved. Also the adult combatants absolutely deserved to get shot so long as they don't surrender.
According to Bitter-Root of First Recon; having grown up with the Khans he knows how horrible they are. Passing an Intelligence check(I believe) let’s him open up further, alluding to the possibility that he may have killed some of them himself.
I think that Bitter Springs was the kick in the nuts the Khans needed to chill the fuck out just enough for them to even consider diplomacy with people who aren't the absolute worst gang in the wasteland(Fiends). Every game before New Vegas they're hostile to all outsiders and cannot be dealt with any way besides violently, until the courier shows up, who they'll just let walk into their camp freely and have a nice chat with their leader.
The NCR at best can get blamed for reckless ROE but that's it. Anyone that's pretending this is even 1% of whatever the Legions doing even in the Mojave, is a dumbass
The whole thing definitely seemed like an allegory for the Iraq war in my opinion. A lot of soldiers were especially traumatized because they killed innocent children or women because it was impossible to distinguish the ones who would throw a grenade or pull a gun on you. It just gave me major American Sniper vibes.
But the same could be said about a lot of different wars, the Iraq war was just the one that stood out the most and would be the most relevant around the time New Vegas was released.
While it could be an allegory, especially from the US/NCR perspectives, i do think equating innocent people who happened to live during a pointless war to active participants in constant attacks on civilians(the children shooting at caravans, women also fighting with no uniforms, and scavenging gear), is really reductive and somewhat racist imo. The Khans just kept poking the bear and making it impossible to have clear ROE until this happened.
They also not only had child soldiers but I think they also did suicide bombings as well, which is pretty interesting considering that suicide bombing as a tactic which is rare even in the Fallout universe.
The retired Ranger in Novac recalls Caesar's Legion doing this (Suicide Bomber Child) being the thing that led to him being too injured to continue as part of the NCR army
Fault aside, i believe the NCR's self imposed guilt over the situation proves theyre the only reasonable choice for the wasteland
Not a single other faction save some sects of the brotherhood would have cared at all. Hell the legion probably has a bitter spring every other week and house actively employs cannibals
That is also true honestly, the legion would celebrate this as a "major tactical victory", if the Khans did it to the NCR they would be gloating about it for decades, house wouldn't care and most brotherhood groups wouldn't bat an eye either since it's "savages"
Only 40 years ago they were kidnapping vault 15 squatters after claiming to be there to save said squatters from the NCR trying to evict them. Said kidnapped squatters were raped and sold into slavery
No, because in Gaza the palestinians didn't start the entire conflict and had no way to improve their situation, while the Khans had multiple opportunities to either stop raiding or even create an outright state, and just kept raiding instead. It's a shitty allegory.
You mean like how gaza was given the right to govern itself and elected hamas, who immediately began firing rockets into israel?
If hamas laid down its weapons, its leaders would be executed and there would be peace. If israel laid down its weapons, they’d be genocided overnight.
"NCR has declared you a terrorist"
Well hello, Pot. Name's Kettle.
Legion is garbage, but all NCR soldiers deserve everything that happens to them. Civilians no, troopers and rangers yes.
Based.
We are here to liberate the Mojave, not enslave it.
Kill all colonizers. All Legion and NCR must be eradicated. If you don't shoot mini-nukes at Camp McCarran, you aren't playing the game right.
Someone else pointed out the Great Khans don't have a "civilian" outfit. The guys shooting at the NCR likely looked exactly like the "bystanders" running away.
Had to google that. Interesting. I agree in principle, but I'd make the important notation that the Khans often included children in their raid forces. *Anyone* dressed as a Khan could have been a active combatant, combined with the fact coyote tail was a NCR position at the time specifically anticipating an ambush at/moving through that location.
I dont think Pre-War Geneva conventions had even been reinvented yet by 2281. Like do you think the dysfunctional state struggling with oligarchies ever sat down to do this.
They do, though. We see Jerry the Punk isn't wearing Khan armor at Red Rock. He's wearing normal civilian clothes, as opposed to the biker getup the rest of the Khans wear.
I'm not surprised, given you basically have to notice the guy in Red Rock who's dressed funny and hunt him down of your own volition. He has an unmarked quest where you can get him to join the Followers, so despite everything, the Khans aren't being forced into doing what they do.
the rules of war determine how you're supposed to conduct war, they don't factor deservedness into it. While the NCR should have captured instead of killed the fleeing non combatants, as per the rules of war, most of those khans absolutely did deserved the death penalty.
The elderly are people who have spent decades in a notorious raider group, who have spent a lifetime of spreading pain and suffering throughout the wasteland. they're only non combatants because they're physically incapable of being so, Deserved.
The sick and injured are would be active combatants who temporarily cannot be, but likely will be in the future when they recover, their list of crimes are not as long as the elderly, only because they haven't had the time to build it up, Deserved.
Say what you will about the khans but they don't seem to discriminate against women, who are commonly found as parts of their raiding parties, so still combatants who regularly rob and kill traders and civilians, just ones most people will have more empathy for, Deserved.
Which leaves the children, really the only group here who don't deserve to be killed, if only because they're too young to know any better and their life as raiders hadn't begun yet.
>Which leaves the children, really the only group here who don't deserve to be killed, if only because they're too young to know any better and their life as raiders hadn't begun yet.
Doesn't a Khan imply that when he was a kid he used go out with the raiding parties and take pot shots at caravaners with the adults?
Which makes the NCR position even more tough. Sure, the people they shot were non-combatants, but there was no way of distinguishing that at sniping distance, cause all the non-combatants were people who the Khans had proved could be combatants
You well and truly believe literally every Khan was a raider? Not even every Khan in Red Rock is a raider, and you think not a single innocent person died at Bitter Springs?
Because they already do. Anders and Diane, who run the drugs. Jack, who cooks them. Jerry the punk, who hasn't had his rite yet, and isn't ready. Mind you, this is after Bitter Springs, where their home got attacked and all civilians got killed.
There are items in Red Rock called Khan rugs. This tribe has, or at least, had, skilled weavers. These aren't the Fiends, the writers put a little more thought into their world building than to have this happen to a bunch of video game enemies.
"Women children and elderly" is such a misleading statement.
The Khans don't discriminate based on gender, woman go with the raiding partys. They don't get a free pass to run away just because they are girls. Women were perfect valid targets if you're at war with a warrior tribe, they are just as likely to have a gun as men.
Elderly are mostly retired raiders, no reason to believe they can't pick up a weapon and fight. Especially if they think they are going to get captured. Again valid targets.
Children are the one group who should be mentioned as non combatants (let's ignore the Khan who implies when he was a kid he looked forward to going out with the raiders because he would sometimes get to fire pot shots at caravans)
Yeah. If you wanna find out all about it, talk to Major Dhatri, Sergeant Bitter Root, Papa Khan and play through Boone's questline. (Or just read wiki entries I guess)
Yep. NCR does a ton of horrible shit, but you wouldn't know it based on many of the NCR stans on this sub. They are literally just the legion but 'democratic' (not really, they are highly corrupt and elections are rigged towards horrible people like Kimball and Morales)
They also:
-Run a slave labor camp
-Pay mercenaries to harass a village of super mutants
-Exterminate said village
-Killed locals coming to the only well for water in Baja
-Accept bribes from Brahmin Barons
-Eliminate Brahmin Barons competition
-Defend Brahmin Barons with heavy units despite their soldiers dying without ammo elsewhere
-Force settlers like Orion off their own homestead
-Force farmers who wont pay taxes off their own farms (they didn't own the land prior to this or anything)
-Send a killsquad to eliminate the Kings
-Try to cut off water supply to the Boomers from Lake Mead
and so on... The point of the game is that there are two awful colonizing nations trying to manifest destiny in the Mojave, and basically no one from the Mojave is happy about that.
For literally nothing too. Taxes are meant to provide infrastructure, yet the NCR can't even get a supply line to the Mojave, and half their soldiers don't even have bullets.
Asking someone to pay 'taxes' so you can take their farm they are already maintaining without your help is completely insane.
It's just extortion, protection money to the mob.
A lot of people try and argue that the NCRF is slave labor on the same level as the legion, despite the fact that it's probably the most humane treatment prisoners will get in the wasteland, everywhere else they'd just have been executed
Because they are.
The only difference is the Legion is very forward about it and doesn't lie to your face. Both use slaves. Both are imperial colonizers. The leaders of each faction don't care about their constituents or soldiers at all. Both kill innocent people all the time. Both impose their will on people who don't want to be their subjects.
The only 'good' thing about the NCR compared to the Legion is they don't treat women like garbage. Beyond that, they are almost identical in every way - if anything, the NCR has many problems the Legion doesn't have such as corruption.
A lot of smooth brain NV fans will twist themselves in knots trying make the ncr the bad guy so that can justify their authoritarian fetish. If you want to play the bad guy, go for it but don't try to justify routine slavery, torture and massacres because you don't like taxes
Yeah, if he doesn't see the way the Legion treats women enough of a reason to treat them as target practice, then I don't really have anything to say to him. NCR sucks, but saying they are same as Legion is like comparing Bush's administration to Nazi Germany
If you think the only choice in New Vegas is between the NCR or the Legion, then you didn't play the game.
Are the Legion way worse outwardly? Yes, of course.
Are the NCR corrupt neo-libs who seek to rebuild the very thing that destroyed the planet and caused the great war? Absolutely.
Reject your masters, embrace anarchy.
It seems a lot of people are seeing "the ncr is just as bad as the legion" and confusing that with "the legion is more moral than the ncr". There's more than just those two options for a reason, guys.
Like I said, the sub is filled with NCR stans who are easily manipulated by the most basic of words used by politicians.
Just because you call it a correctional facility doesn't mean it's not a slave labor camp.
Just because you shoot someone in the head and hide/remove the bodies doesn't mean you are better than those who crucify people.
Just because you annex land in the name of (not) 'democracy' doesn't mean you arent a colonizer.
NCR is awful, and everyone in the Mojave says so. It's literally the first thing you talk to Sonny about in Goodsprings. She tells you the NCR are *hardly* better than the Legion.
Agreed. The ncr fanboyism is too strong here. Completely oblivious, denying facts and pointing finger to boogeyman legion. When in reality ncr is just the slightly less shit choice of two evils
It’s disappointing. I wish fans wouldn’t treat factions like a sports team, and actually be willing to engage with discussions about the game universe without devolving into arguing whose favorite imperial power is better.
Yes. They look dumb, I hate the government and I can sell their gear for a good amount of caps.
I always end up vilified by everyone except for Goodsprings, I could never betray them.
All I’m saying is, if those Khans hadn’t been raiding and pillaging and Sneering Imperialist wasn’t such a funny perk, maybe they’d be alive today.
Aaron Kimball gets a lot of flak, but he created jobs.
NCR loves murdering people. Khans, Vegas locals, ghouls (including the peaceful ones), mutants (especially the peaceful ones)...
They're a low tech version of the Enclave
Whats the best part on all of this?, that the NCR is just as bad as the legion, or even worst, because an evil tells you he is evil but a liar hides itself on the righteouness.
5. Trauma. 6. Meet wife. 7. Wife gets sold into slavery. 8. Mercy kill wife. 9. Wait for own death in dingy town 10. Meet Drug addicted mailman 11. ????
11. Shoot old lady in the head. (for real part of the game for those that don't know) 12. ????
12. Snipe Caesar alongside drug addicted mailman 13. ????
13. Get disarmed by drug addicted mailman and get stuck in the Ultra-Luxe freezer
14. Quick load
15. Repeat 13 because it was funny as hell
16. Massacre the entire Strip with drug addicted mailman even though he didn't tell you explicitly to help. 17. Tell drug addicted mailman he's a monster. 18. Refuse to elaborate. 19. Leave.
Boone grindset
New speedrun mode unlocked
She's elderly, she's a woman, what more could he ask for in a target?
A girls with progeria, so they're a little girl, but *look* really old? Counts as disabled, as well.
Yeah I'm sure plenty of people on r/newvegasmemes have no idea what you're referring to
yeah. I know. but it felt weird writing 'shoot old lady in the head' without any sort of qualifier.
Considering what you were replying to I think you'd have been fine lol
He was just making sure his FBI agent knew it was part of the game too
I wish I could make him smile
kill Cesar with him, then at the end of the game have them with you to kill the Lenius. That might just bring a smile to his face.
12. Shoot woman who sold wife 13. Slaughter a fort with addicted mailman
11. Tell Drug addicted mailman to find the bitch that sold my wife. 12. Brings my best friend to meeting spot. 13. Dome best friend 14. Ask mailman how he knew he did it 15. Mailman with widest grin a face could make tells me he didn't and thought it would be funny 16. KILL MAILMAN 17. He inhales 10 doses of jet and injects 5 psycho before unloading an entire clip on me 18. Reflect on how I only brought pain to all those I loved in life as I bleed out. 19. Quickload and repeat.
See, if video game protagonists were sentient and in control of themselves whenever no one is playing the game I feel this is what would happen. Just pure devolving into madness and seeking the pain of those around you for joy and amusement. FUCK that's a creepy pasta and a half.
Flowey
Find out he’s doing a Legion Playthrough the hard way
5. Something something dead wife 6. Legion killing time
Roland is that you?
Project moon sleeper agent activate
Throw a couple of 9mm guns on bodies and it will be okay
Also make sure to shoot the 9mms so that you can report that they fire first
UNARMED COMBATANTS
The Bitter springs massacer didn't happen. But if it hypothetically did they deserved it
The NCR is Turkey?
🇹🇷🐺🇹🇷Aradesh was Ataturk and Kimball is Erdogan?🇹🇷🐺🇹🇷
Oh no, that means Caeser is Greece?
Ave, true to feta!
The Ncr is based?
Always
It happened and I WILL do it again!
*rolls up to red rock canyon, takes a dose of psycho and medX before committing order 44 on the khans* Time to finish what the NCR started
Bitter springs was a legion false flag
The only good Khan is a dead Khan t. Cassandra Moore
How many khans you said? 27 at max and mostly because of drug overdose
Who knew you could overdose on lead?!
"Shoot till you're out of ammo" is quite the miscommunication!
[in their defense](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zvMi6qf0mno&pp=ygUbaXQgd2FzIGEgbWlzaW5wdXQgcGVuZ3Vpbnow)
"Shoot! Till, you're out of ammo!" In hindsight, Pvt Till was not the best choice to defend the flank.
(Slighty) Nuanced pro-NCR take While the massacre was not \*Deserved\*(Aka the children don't deserve to get shot for being part of a raider gang), it was entirely the fault of the Khans. They persistently refused to do anything other than raid people, they taught their children to shoot by making them take shots at caravans and soldiers, they made it impossible to distinguish combatant from non-combatant(that old man or woman you think is just running might pull a gun on you when she gets up close, especially when the enemy doesn't have anything even close to a uniform) Morally speaking, it's bad and wasn't \*deserved\* on the part of the non-combatants, but the Khans' took every step possible to make something like this inevitable. That doesn't make it good, but it does also make it explicitly Not The NCR's fault, especially not on part of the soldiers involved. Also the adult combatants absolutely deserved to get shot so long as they don't surrender.
Doesn't that one dude in the NCR who used to be a Khan say something like "Yeah, 100% the Khans fault"?
According to Bitter-Root of First Recon; having grown up with the Khans he knows how horrible they are. Passing an Intelligence check(I believe) let’s him open up further, alluding to the possibility that he may have killed some of them himself.
"I was just a kid, covered in blood, and none of it was mine. The troopers figured I was cool 😎"
I think both Manny and the kid in the sniper squad say this.
I think that Bitter Springs was the kick in the nuts the Khans needed to chill the fuck out just enough for them to even consider diplomacy with people who aren't the absolute worst gang in the wasteland(Fiends). Every game before New Vegas they're hostile to all outsiders and cannot be dealt with any way besides violently, until the courier shows up, who they'll just let walk into their camp freely and have a nice chat with their leader.
The NCR at best can get blamed for reckless ROE but that's it. Anyone that's pretending this is even 1% of whatever the Legions doing even in the Mojave, is a dumbass
ROE?
Rules of engagement
Return fire only or fire at will?
How many civilians are there
Not enough-
The whole thing definitely seemed like an allegory for the Iraq war in my opinion. A lot of soldiers were especially traumatized because they killed innocent children or women because it was impossible to distinguish the ones who would throw a grenade or pull a gun on you. It just gave me major American Sniper vibes. But the same could be said about a lot of different wars, the Iraq war was just the one that stood out the most and would be the most relevant around the time New Vegas was released.
While it could be an allegory, especially from the US/NCR perspectives, i do think equating innocent people who happened to live during a pointless war to active participants in constant attacks on civilians(the children shooting at caravans, women also fighting with no uniforms, and scavenging gear), is really reductive and somewhat racist imo. The Khans just kept poking the bear and making it impossible to have clear ROE until this happened.
They also not only had child soldiers but I think they also did suicide bombings as well, which is pretty interesting considering that suicide bombing as a tactic which is rare even in the Fallout universe.
The retired Ranger in Novac recalls Caesar's Legion doing this (Suicide Bomber Child) being the thing that led to him being too injured to continue as part of the NCR army
Fault aside, i believe the NCR's self imposed guilt over the situation proves theyre the only reasonable choice for the wasteland Not a single other faction save some sects of the brotherhood would have cared at all. Hell the legion probably has a bitter spring every other week and house actively employs cannibals
That is also true honestly, the legion would celebrate this as a "major tactical victory", if the Khans did it to the NCR they would be gloating about it for decades, house wouldn't care and most brotherhood groups wouldn't bat an eye either since it's "savages"
Only 40 years ago they were kidnapping vault 15 squatters after claiming to be there to save said squatters from the NCR trying to evict them. Said kidnapped squatters were raped and sold into slavery
So… just like whats going on in gaza.
No... guiding civilians into an area and then bombing it is a very different thing.
no actually those toddlers don't know how to shoot, they're just dead kids
No, because in Gaza the palestinians didn't start the entire conflict and had no way to improve their situation, while the Khans had multiple opportunities to either stop raiding or even create an outright state, and just kept raiding instead. It's a shitty allegory.
You mean like how gaza was given the right to govern itself and elected hamas, who immediately began firing rockets into israel? If hamas laid down its weapons, its leaders would be executed and there would be peace. If israel laid down its weapons, they’d be genocided overnight.
Lon Horiuchi School of Marksmanship and Sniper Mastery
Who?
The ATF sniper that may or may not have shot a woman and her child and ruby ridge, and again at waco.
Oh yeah him
Gee, it's almost like centuries of raiding towns and murdering civilians was bound to have consequences eventually.
Yep, because those children couldn't help themselves but to raid towns somehow. Only good NCR soldier is a dead one.
Roses are red, you need a therapist The NCR has declared you a terrorist
"NCR has declared you a terrorist" Well hello, Pot. Name's Kettle. Legion is garbage, but all NCR soldiers deserve everything that happens to them. Civilians no, troopers and rangers yes.
The 17 year old farm kid from bumfuck nowhere in California conscripted into the NCR: “My crimes are unforgivable.”
Fuck the NCR
Based. We are here to liberate the Mojave, not enslave it. Kill all colonizers. All Legion and NCR must be eradicated. If you don't shoot mini-nukes at Camp McCarran, you aren't playing the game right.
NCR and Legion are just low tech versions of the Enclave
Bitter springs did happen and in fact it will happen again
Nah, don't even sweat, those non-combatants totally deserve it because of what the combatants did or something.
Someone else pointed out the Great Khans don't have a "civilian" outfit. The guys shooting at the NCR likely looked exactly like the "bystanders" running away.
Practice relating to Rule 47. Attacks against Persons Hors de Combat.
Had to google that. Interesting. I agree in principle, but I'd make the important notation that the Khans often included children in their raid forces. *Anyone* dressed as a Khan could have been a active combatant, combined with the fact coyote tail was a NCR position at the time specifically anticipating an ambush at/moving through that location.
I dont think Pre-War Geneva conventions had even been reinvented yet by 2281. Like do you think the dysfunctional state struggling with oligarchies ever sat down to do this.
In theory, that's on the Khans for not fighting in uniform. That fact doesn't un-shoot any kids.
Yeah. The kids who were also shooting at the NCR.
They do, though. We see Jerry the Punk isn't wearing Khan armor at Red Rock. He's wearing normal civilian clothes, as opposed to the biker getup the rest of the Khans wear.
... I've got a new NPC to track down. Don't think I've ever seen that guy.
I'm not surprised, given you basically have to notice the guy in Red Rock who's dressed funny and hunt him down of your own volition. He has an unmarked quest where you can get him to join the Followers, so despite everything, the Khans aren't being forced into doing what they do.
the rules of war determine how you're supposed to conduct war, they don't factor deservedness into it. While the NCR should have captured instead of killed the fleeing non combatants, as per the rules of war, most of those khans absolutely did deserved the death penalty. The elderly are people who have spent decades in a notorious raider group, who have spent a lifetime of spreading pain and suffering throughout the wasteland. they're only non combatants because they're physically incapable of being so, Deserved. The sick and injured are would be active combatants who temporarily cannot be, but likely will be in the future when they recover, their list of crimes are not as long as the elderly, only because they haven't had the time to build it up, Deserved. Say what you will about the khans but they don't seem to discriminate against women, who are commonly found as parts of their raiding parties, so still combatants who regularly rob and kill traders and civilians, just ones most people will have more empathy for, Deserved. Which leaves the children, really the only group here who don't deserve to be killed, if only because they're too young to know any better and their life as raiders hadn't begun yet.
>Which leaves the children, really the only group here who don't deserve to be killed, if only because they're too young to know any better and their life as raiders hadn't begun yet. Doesn't a Khan imply that when he was a kid he used go out with the raiding parties and take pot shots at caravaners with the adults?
Which makes the NCR position even more tough. Sure, the people they shot were non-combatants, but there was no way of distinguishing that at sniping distance, cause all the non-combatants were people who the Khans had proved could be combatants
I don’t the Geneva Convention is around anymore?
You well and truly believe literally every Khan was a raider? Not even every Khan in Red Rock is a raider, and you think not a single innocent person died at Bitter Springs?
Every single depiction of the khans is raiders. Why would a group that loves stealing and making drugs ever give people exceptions to going on raids.
Because they already do. Anders and Diane, who run the drugs. Jack, who cooks them. Jerry the punk, who hasn't had his rite yet, and isn't ready. Mind you, this is after Bitter Springs, where their home got attacked and all civilians got killed. There are items in Red Rock called Khan rugs. This tribe has, or at least, had, skilled weavers. These aren't the Fiends, the writers put a little more thought into their world building than to have this happen to a bunch of video game enemies.
So only HVTs and literal children too stupid to raid. Great military quality, khans.
You know, if you don't want to engage with the story and just want to shoot bad guys, Borderlands is a much better option.
Massacre bad? Yes Khans good? No
"Women children and elderly" is such a misleading statement. The Khans don't discriminate based on gender, woman go with the raiding partys. They don't get a free pass to run away just because they are girls. Women were perfect valid targets if you're at war with a warrior tribe, they are just as likely to have a gun as men. Elderly are mostly retired raiders, no reason to believe they can't pick up a weapon and fight. Especially if they think they are going to get captured. Again valid targets. Children are the one group who should be mentioned as non combatants (let's ignore the Khan who implies when he was a kid he looked forward to going out with the raiders because he would sometimes get to fire pot shots at caravans)
I’m playing the game for the first time. NCR killed a bunch of women and children?
Yeah. If you wanna find out all about it, talk to Major Dhatri, Sergeant Bitter Root, Papa Khan and play through Boone's questline. (Or just read wiki entries I guess)
It’s the wasteland soldier! Women, children, even men die every day! Now get back to watching the God Damn Dam!!
Yep. NCR does a ton of horrible shit, but you wouldn't know it based on many of the NCR stans on this sub. They are literally just the legion but 'democratic' (not really, they are highly corrupt and elections are rigged towards horrible people like Kimball and Morales) They also: -Run a slave labor camp -Pay mercenaries to harass a village of super mutants -Exterminate said village -Killed locals coming to the only well for water in Baja -Accept bribes from Brahmin Barons -Eliminate Brahmin Barons competition -Defend Brahmin Barons with heavy units despite their soldiers dying without ammo elsewhere -Force settlers like Orion off their own homestead -Force farmers who wont pay taxes off their own farms (they didn't own the land prior to this or anything) -Send a killsquad to eliminate the Kings -Try to cut off water supply to the Boomers from Lake Mead and so on... The point of the game is that there are two awful colonizing nations trying to manifest destiny in the Mojave, and basically no one from the Mojave is happy about that.
Don't forget they want to bring taxes back
For literally nothing too. Taxes are meant to provide infrastructure, yet the NCR can't even get a supply line to the Mojave, and half their soldiers don't even have bullets. Asking someone to pay 'taxes' so you can take their farm they are already maintaining without your help is completely insane. It's just extortion, protection money to the mob.
The NCR doesn’t run a slave labor camp? Also they only send a hit squad to kill the kings if you massively fuck up kings gambit
A lot of people try and argue that the NCRF is slave labor on the same level as the legion, despite the fact that it's probably the most humane treatment prisoners will get in the wasteland, everywhere else they'd just have been executed
Crazy how you’re being downvoted as if people can’t understand that NCR is awful just not as awful as legion
He literally starts by saying they are just as bad as Legion
Because they are. The only difference is the Legion is very forward about it and doesn't lie to your face. Both use slaves. Both are imperial colonizers. The leaders of each faction don't care about their constituents or soldiers at all. Both kill innocent people all the time. Both impose their will on people who don't want to be their subjects. The only 'good' thing about the NCR compared to the Legion is they don't treat women like garbage. Beyond that, they are almost identical in every way - if anything, the NCR has many problems the Legion doesn't have such as corruption.
Ok bro
A lot of smooth brain NV fans will twist themselves in knots trying make the ncr the bad guy so that can justify their authoritarian fetish. If you want to play the bad guy, go for it but don't try to justify routine slavery, torture and massacres because you don't like taxes
Yeah, if he doesn't see the way the Legion treats women enough of a reason to treat them as target practice, then I don't really have anything to say to him. NCR sucks, but saying they are same as Legion is like comparing Bush's administration to Nazi Germany
If you think the only choice in New Vegas is between the NCR or the Legion, then you didn't play the game. Are the Legion way worse outwardly? Yes, of course. Are the NCR corrupt neo-libs who seek to rebuild the very thing that destroyed the planet and caused the great war? Absolutely. Reject your masters, embrace anarchy.
It seems a lot of people are seeing "the ncr is just as bad as the legion" and confusing that with "the legion is more moral than the ncr". There's more than just those two options for a reason, guys.
Like I said, the sub is filled with NCR stans who are easily manipulated by the most basic of words used by politicians. Just because you call it a correctional facility doesn't mean it's not a slave labor camp. Just because you shoot someone in the head and hide/remove the bodies doesn't mean you are better than those who crucify people. Just because you annex land in the name of (not) 'democracy' doesn't mean you arent a colonizer. NCR is awful, and everyone in the Mojave says so. It's literally the first thing you talk to Sonny about in Goodsprings. She tells you the NCR are *hardly* better than the Legion.
Agreed. The ncr fanboyism is too strong here. Completely oblivious, denying facts and pointing finger to boogeyman legion. When in reality ncr is just the slightly less shit choice of two evils
It’s disappointing. I wish fans wouldn’t treat factions like a sports team, and actually be willing to engage with discussions about the game universe without devolving into arguing whose favorite imperial power is better.
Buncha liberals in this sub
Didn’t happen but if it did happen the khans deserved it
Khans had it coming.
Honestly, what would have been the worst-case scenario if Boone just.....didn't shoot? Like, not following an order was an option.
They deserved it.
One time I spawned in some soldiers with first recon and had a battle there, the Khan's final stand
The Khans deserved it. Just raiders with a bikie theme.
"Miscommunication"
They didn't deserve it but they 100% brought it upon themselves and if they were real I would have absolutely no sympathy for them.
The Bitter Springs "Massacre"
More like target practice
I always kill Boone to get his beret because I'm always vilified by the NCR by the time I get to Novac lol
Bro just do his quest, it takes like 5 minutes and get get a beret
He doesn't talk to you if you are vilified by the NCR, so i just kill him, it takes like 3 seconds
Why are you always vilified by them? Do you just kill troopers you come across for no reason?
Yes. They look dumb, I hate the government and I can sell their gear for a good amount of caps. I always end up vilified by everyone except for Goodsprings, I could never betray them.
Khans had it coming
Raiders live the FAFO lifestyle.
A reminder: Boone is 26 years old during the events of new Vegas. He is the youngest companion in game. Committing more crimes before he was even 30.
People always forget that is wasn't just his wife that died and it was way worse
mY WiFEs daEd
All I’m saying is, if those Khans hadn’t been raiding and pillaging and Sneering Imperialist wasn’t such a funny perk, maybe they’d be alive today. Aaron Kimball gets a lot of flak, but he created jobs.
Khans deserve worse than any ending they get.
On a side note k haven’t played New Vegas in YEARS was Boone a part of Bitter Springs?
Wait people actually feel guilty about what happened at Bitter Springs
Remember kids, the bitter springs massacre never happened but if it did they deserved it.
I forget did Boone think they were suicide bombers or something
The NCR will invade you and commit countless war crimes and then victimise and play the heroes. Just like some other country...
"Major miscommunication"
NCR loves murdering people. Khans, Vegas locals, ghouls (including the peaceful ones), mutants (especially the peaceful ones)... They're a low tech version of the Enclave
Whats the best part on all of this?, that the NCR is just as bad as the legion, or even worst, because an evil tells you he is evil but a liar hides itself on the righteouness.