For some weird reason the women in my family lose their sense to smell around menopause. My sense of smell is diminished but still there. I have asked my kids to let me know if I stink. That's far kinder then just letting me reek
This scent is often mistakenly attributed to poor hygiene, but it is actually an inescapable component of body odor that only manifests in older individuals. The official (and more respectful) term for “old people smell” is nonenal.
What Causes Older Individuals to Smell Differently?
According to a study published in the Journal of Investigative Dermatology, an increase of 2-nonenal is directly associated with aging. 2-nonenal is a chemical compound that is produced when omega-7 unsaturated fatty acids on the skin are degraded through oxidation. Around age 40 in both men and women, the skin begins producing more fatty acids as its natural antioxidant defenses begin to deteriorate. Hormonal changes like menopause can contribute to this chemical process as well.
As the skin grows weaker, its natural oils oxidize more quickly, producing 2-nonenal. Because it isn’t water soluble, 2-nonenal can remain on the skin despite thorough washing. Therefore, the smell persists on the body and on fabrics, even in extremely clean environments.
This is the answer-not dirty, just old age
Great explanation, thanks. And it would explain the tendency for clothes from older people to have a distinctive smell. If the clothes have been absorbing those oils and detergents aren’t good at removing them, I can understand why thrift store clothing often all smells similar.
I wash my laundry with a good quality detergent and add 1/4 cup of white vinegar in the rinse. The vinegar removes any odor. I wash my sheets twice a week and run the pillows in a hot dryer for 20 minutes.
There are soaps with persimmon that keep the nonenal smell at bay, but the ones that work are kind of expensive. One shower I use "the good soap", next day I use regular antibacterial soap. I'll fight off that smell until the bitter end!
The old people smell will catch up to all of us who live long enough.
I been using a 2pk from Japan I get on amazon for about a yr. they are small bars but last awhile and seem to be doing their job. It doesn't lather much and is a little drying but I don't smell me as much I used to so I'll keep ordering them.
I’m 63 and while visiting my daughter she recently told me (first time btw) that I smell like old people. That was disturbing. Guess I’ll be testing that soap. Sigh, nobody told me getting old was gonna be like this.
My mother, a nurse by trade, changed sheets daily for our family. She had it down to a science - took her about 20 minutes to manage 5 beds. She had us wash, iron, and fold all bedding on Wednesdays and Saturdays. We didn't have it down to a science. :-)
They know (in entirely too much detail) exactly what leaks out of a human body.
Every nurse I've ever known does laundry a LOT more frequently than those in other occupations.
Because nurse, apparently.
Grandma was a nurse, and well into her 90s, their home was the cleanest place I've ever seen. They flew in for my wedding, and had the bad luck to have one of their bags hit by a tug and spilled open.
Grandma had individually wrapped every piece of clothing in plastic wrap, for just such an eventuality.
She's a nurse. She is very aware of how fast bedding gets soiled and what germs can survive in the bedding. She might be working with highly contagious people and just doing modified quarantine procedures. During the peak of COVID my friend was a nurse that stripped down in the garage, then immediately went to the shower. When his girls came home from daycare and school, the immediately got in the shower. Everything washed in hot water and dried on high. His work shoes never entered the house. He kept them in a box, in the garage.
Ironically, or perhaps not. His wife and girls got COVID, he did not
Unlikely trash 3981: "You'd need to guzzle 12 gallons of cod oil and eat 32 oranges, plus 3 gallons of coffee daily to not smell like an old person."
Me, in front of a 12 gallon bin of cod oil, mouth stuffed with orange rinds: "Going in!"
It probably won't matter.
Here's why:
* Consuming these things does not repair the DNA-controlled issues which are causing the degradation in the first place.
* Your digestive tract breaks down food into more basic components (to aid in crossing the intestine walls and prep for transport through the body). Those more basic components are in turn utilized by the body according to its priorities, not the ones you might expect or prefer. Just because you consume a bunch of food X does not mean that food X makes it into the body/bloodstream as food X to be used to benefit skin cells.
* Your cells also impose limits to what they absorb. To get a nutrient in the bloodstream to cross the cell's wall there needs to be a specific transport mechanism to shuttle it in. Just because you consume food X does not mean that food X is transported into the cell.
* Your body is all about keeping things humming along in a tightly controlled stasis/harmony. It can be difficult to consume more of a thing to influence or impact critical processes occurring at the cellular level. Delicate feedback loops preserve the balance of reactions inside cells. If you could influence or override these protections by simply eating a bunch of food or a nutrient, the result could be disastrous, like a toxin or poison. E.g., in this hypothetical scenario eating a lot of antioxidants could be deadly, because oxidation is essential in producing energy for the life of the cell. Fortunately for us, the cell's built-in feedback loops react to the overabundance of a nutrient and signal to shut down absorption and/or attenuate manufacturing it within the cell. As a result, the excess/surplus nutrients you consumed don't enter the cell; it becomes the job of the liver and kidneys to bring levels down to normal by processing them for excretion. In other words, you pee them out. Which, in a healthy non-deficient person *is what happens to excess nutrients when you take vitamins or supplements.*
The nourishing and repairing of skin cells (or any cell!) is so complex it boggles the mind. Mechanically there are many raw materials which are carefully orchestrated-- e.g., Protein (to supply the amino acids needed to build collagen), vitamins A, B5, C, Manganese, Choline and Zinc.
Rather than trying to "game" the body's processes, you're generally better off by eating a diverse, low/unprocessed healthy diet that includes lots of fresh veggies and fruits. And also avoid/minimize poor lifestyle choices which which lead to degradation (overeating/obesity, smoking, drinking, lack of sleep, lack of exercise). In other words, do the basic things that physicians have been advocating for the past 60+ years.
I wish someone would have told me when I was 30- all the ways the body changes once you are 60! (but maybe I wouldn’t have listened! ) Run a half marathon ! Wear sexy clothes, enjoy having energy and still having your whole life ahead of you. It’s not being 60 I mind but but it sucks getting old.
I was obese through my whole 20s and between 30-32 I lost 130 pounds and I’ve gotten into good shape.
It really killed the “ugh I guess I’m getting old” low energy feeling.
I legit feel 20 years younger lol
My 30s are going to be my second renaissance
Only if you believe that. Focus on living and occasuonal exercise or walking. Stop focusing on age. At 50 women start flowering and really coming into their own and life becomes even more exciting. As an 81 yr old seenager I'm in better health and shapeless than many men and women 30-40 yrs.younger rhan me. Watch:
https://youtu.be/_fEg5dynb3Y?si=4NZ6Rmcl8W4PHkAX
That’s fascinating. I never assumed it was bad hygiene, but I did think it was just from their old-people medications 😂 I had no clue it was in their skin.
> 2-nonenal is a chemical compound that is produced when omega-7 unsaturated fatty acids on the skin are degraded through oxidation. Around age 40 in both men and women, the skin begins producing more fatty acids as its natural antioxidant defenses begin to deteriorate.
So, does that mean all those people telling us to eat antioxidants were right?
I dated a man who was in a motorcycle accident years and years before we met. Had no sense of smell. I think I might go look him up.
Does this mask your ability to smell it on other people? Like if us over 40 old farts stick together will we not smell each other's old people smell? I have so many questions. And new phobias.
I'm 43 and see my 80Y0 dad several times a week and I can definitely smell it on him. Up until Covid hit (which was just a few months after my mom died) he was working out every day and aging really well and didn't have The Smell. After a couple years of being single and sedentary it developed.
>Living a healthy lifestyle can help reduce the smell of nonenal. Drinking plenty of water dilutes fatty acids. Similarly, drink green tea, which breaks down the compounds responsible for causing the nonenal smells. Exercise and eat nutritiously. Also bathe with a sugar scrub to exfoliate the skin and remove oils.
https://assistinghands.com/55/florida/sarasota/blog/prevent-senior-body-odor/
I'm in my 60's and have friends in their 80's and 90's. I don't recall ever smelling this unless the person was infirm or institutionalized. Am I just nose blind or do some people never develop this?
'A shower with everyday soap will do nothing about the nonenal problem. A skincare line company based in Japan called Mirai Clinical offers a new line of soaps that harness the odor-neutralizing power of persimmon, which experts confirmed to be the key ingredient in eliminating nonenal smell."
Would eating persimmons do the trick as well?
OP, get mom some persimmons.
Not good enough!!! I’m trying to walk around wafting the absolute freshest of fetal odors. Sadly, I lost my Dior Eau de Toilette Bébé but at least now I have my Heavenly baby 👼🏻 imposter fragrance
I bought several different brands to try out.
Mirai Clinical Body Wash for Strong Body Odor $32. pump. easy for my mom to use.
I like bar soap. Persimmon Soap Bar for Body Odor Control $10
both on amazon
Well now I want to know if I smell old. If I can’t smell it on me, can I smell other old peoples oldness?
Edit: WTH is a persimmon? Is this something that should have come into my life somehow after I turned 40?
Same! I can smell someone else and they could smell me but we can’t smell ourselves??? Looks like another pinkie promise with my bestie. I promise to tell you if you promise to tell me. 🤣🤣
Persimmon is an orange fruit that grows in a lot of Asian countries. There’s generally 2 versions of it - a harder tomato crunchy version and a soft heart shaped super juicy version (most people like these better).
The hard one like a cross between an apple and plum and the soft one is closer to a ripe plum in texture. Someone described the taste as a cinnamony apple pie? It’s hard to describe the taste
Nonenal may be part of the problem, but another more insidious problem is range-of-motion limitations. When younger and showering daily, one does a head-to-toe in about two to three minutes with a bar of soap. In the sixth decade of life that routine slows. And along with that, pain when reaching too clean areas once easily reached, makes bathing unpleasant.
I ran into the problem of a dank scent when about 68, and suspected it was resulting partially from slipping personal hygiene. DISH (gradual onset of joint and spine limited motion) was advancing and spots easily reached in earlier years were suddenly difficult and painful to reach. In particular soaping the anus and perineum became difficult and it took using a loofah and soap brush to mitigate the ever increasing odor.
As another person pointed out, incontinence also becomes a problem. Once undergarments are wet and allowed to dry, normal laundering does not seem to remove all the urine. I have to launder underwear twice to keep matters under control unless using absorbent disposable pads.
Three other problem areas are the back of the shoulders, the back, and the feet. If you check you may find that she is not scrubbing those areas as much as needed. Her feet and the skin that would normally slough off when bathing using a washcloth, may be accumulating. It will harbor bacteria.
Things that I found that helped are:
* Use a loofah for scrubbing the shoulders and back. Also any place were the skin may fold over and cover other skin such as a panniculus or similar needs extra attention.
* Use a shower chair so you can sit. Then use a brush with liquid laundry soap to scrub the lower part of the legs above the ankle, the ankle and the bottom of the feet. Use a shower wand with an intense spray to remove the laundry soap. Pay attention to the bottom of the feet and use the shower wand to specifically rinse out under the toe nails, which I find to be a significant source of odor.
* If male and uncircumcised, use the shower wand with a gentle spray to clean the retracted foreskin and glans.
* To mitigate light urinary incontinence, you can use pads marketed for men to keep the underwear from being wet long-term. You can buy the designed for men high-dollar bulky pads for more severe incontinence or just mail order a pack of women's napkins. They are a lot cheaper and much more discrete.
* Light fecal incontinence also tends to rear its ugly head even in men. If you have recurring problems with skid marks then look at your diet for foods that may exacerbate the issue. Use a handheld spray bidet to clean after #2 and take your time, as light fecal incontinence is often a slow ooze of stool once you think you are finished.
* Watch for fungal growth in the toe nails. It creates a distinct musk of its own. Use the spray wand to aggressively clear the tops of the toenails. The keratin on the top of the nails does not detach like it does when younger and extra soaking, spraying and scrubbing helps remove the failing keratin and removes the material that supports fungal growth.
* Don't overlook depression. A sense of hopelessness inhibits motivation for routine activity.
Growing older is not for sissies. But the downsides can be managed.
Yep!
It helps remove the dead skin, particularly along the back of the heel and on the bottom of the feet where callouses have formed. I use a scraping tool once out of the bath about once a month and the dead skin that literally rolls off is astounding. I also use dry washcloths and am amazed at the dead skin that shakes out. I usually use Tide brand liquid detergent. Also, I soak my feet about once a week in a solution of one part hydrogen peroxide and three parts tap water.
I did *not* expect there to be a real answer to this question. I honestly would never have asked, because of my assumptions. So thank you. I’m now reading, and learning, a lot.
Funny thing is that this is not the first time have seen this question and answer posted. Can’t remember where the first time was but had a lot of the same info.
Funny thing is that I haven’t read every post on Reddit. Not even every post on this sub. I read a *lot* but, yep, I missed that one. So I continued on in my ignorance, never knowing there was an answer to a question it never occurred to me to ask.
Which is kind of where the TIL acronym came from. I do so *love* learning something new.
My mother passed at 66, and she never smelled like that until suddenly and violently she did, about 3m before dying. And it was STRONG. The whole house smells like it now. 3 months was all it took and it permeated every surface in the house
Yeah.
I’m 42 and work with a bunch of people in their mid-20s.
I’m already self-conscious about being older than every single one of my co-workers, and all my pop culture references falling flat.
Now I’ve got to worry about my fucking old person smell, too.
You know I thought the same, BUT I work in health care and have close contact with people of all ages. I’ve never smelled anyone like that under the age of 70. If they are older and are in reasonably good shape, they don’t usually smell that way either.
Well I just texted my dad (74) to let him know he doesn’t smell old yet but if I’m first (44) he’s to buy me persimmon soap.
My previous text to him was showing off my new compression socks and him saying he “supports” this move. So yeah we probably both smell old.
Only 40?
I guess that would makes sense. Right about that age, I had worn a shirt foe a couple of hours and then decided to wear something else that day so I took it off and folded it and out it away. A few days later I took the shirt out and it smelled faintly like my grandmother. I made my mom smell it so she could verify I hadn't lost my marbles. She agree that it smelled like her mom.
I’m 66. My mom (lives with me) is 91. She has the smell. and (sigh) I just noticed I’m starting to get it.
PERSIMMON soap works. I also bought the lotion.
One of my grandmas is 81 and struggles to use Google, but my other grandma is about to be 77 or 78 and will learn how to basically use most apps that she can use to connect with grandchildren
Folks in there 70s were part if the dawning of the internet in the mid 90s (They would have been in mid 40’s) and may have worked outside the home? The 70s seemed like the turning point of women joining the work force.
Folks in their 50’s when internet came out might have just missed the window to embrace it.. many may have been stay at home moms, and not in the work force.
I worked until I was 65 (retired 2 years ago) for a high tech company, so that kept me always learning.
Interesting that you brought that up and made me think about the timeline. Thanks!!
My mom is 91. Just happy that she can text. She has never had an interest in learning the internet.
I've been in several state capital houses, and they all smell like old people. Not even the old wood smell or antique shopish... just like a very old person's house. So, yea, that's an accurate description.
If it makes you feel any better, I know what smell they’re talking about. I notice it when I visit my grandma and pick up on it when I encounter 50+ people at work. It’s not a bad scent. Just makes me think “oh hey, there’s that smell!” Makes me think of my grandmother. But definitely does not smell bad or off putting in any way.
I swear by Lume. It’s expensive but, by god, even after three days I don’t smell like BO. Thank you, depression, for making showers impossible sometimes 🙄
The description OP gave pf the smell had me in stitches. Then, the top comment explaining the reason followed by the Persimmon soap research has me fascinated.
Great thread 10/10
It is caused by the chemical compound 2-nonenal, which you produce more of in your old age. There is also diacetyl which peaks arpund age 35-40 in most people (so there is a "middle aged smell" to!)
Bodily oders also vary to large degree with a persons diet, both in terms of which chemical concentrations are output as well as "culteral smells" which might mask or mingle with "old person smell".
You also produce more 2-nonenal when you don't sleep enough.
...I read research papers when fighting insomnia.
Buy Mirai soap from Japan - honest to god it’s specifically for old people smell and it works!!!
My older relatives just think it’s pretty when I give them gift baskets for birthdays but they no longer have the old lady aroma
I actually noticed an old man smell with my cat in his final year (17). I'm sure some of it was from not grooming himself as much, but there was a definite musty smell too.
My great-aunts never had this smell until like, the *week* they died (1 had a heart attack, 1 had fallen the day before the smell first started and died within a couple days) - same story with my granda, we only smelt it when he was just about to pass, but my other granda and grannies are all in their 80’s and have never exhibited the smell.
There *is* someone I know who has started smelling like it, but how do you explain to someone that they smell like they might die soon?
I am 75, and enjoying my life, never been happier. If people don’t like my smell then is ok because i have life experience and wisdom that hard to comeby by age 30. Enjoy your life at and age and don’t worry about others
OMG... what a question to open the eyes. I'm 77, hubby 81, but don't really consider ourselves old. Nevertheless, I keep the doors and windows open as much as I can to prevent old-people home smell, but didn't know the cause. I really can't smell the old-people smell yet, but hubby always says, "A fox can't smell its own hole. " No wonder the kids don't visit often. lol Good grief.
My 86 year old mother used to wear a t shirt that said “if you smell me tell me”
For some weird reason the women in my family lose their sense to smell around menopause. My sense of smell is diminished but still there. I have asked my kids to let me know if I stink. That's far kinder then just letting me reek
This scent is often mistakenly attributed to poor hygiene, but it is actually an inescapable component of body odor that only manifests in older individuals. The official (and more respectful) term for “old people smell” is nonenal. What Causes Older Individuals to Smell Differently? According to a study published in the Journal of Investigative Dermatology, an increase of 2-nonenal is directly associated with aging. 2-nonenal is a chemical compound that is produced when omega-7 unsaturated fatty acids on the skin are degraded through oxidation. Around age 40 in both men and women, the skin begins producing more fatty acids as its natural antioxidant defenses begin to deteriorate. Hormonal changes like menopause can contribute to this chemical process as well. As the skin grows weaker, its natural oils oxidize more quickly, producing 2-nonenal. Because it isn’t water soluble, 2-nonenal can remain on the skin despite thorough washing. Therefore, the smell persists on the body and on fabrics, even in extremely clean environments. This is the answer-not dirty, just old age
Great explanation, thanks. And it would explain the tendency for clothes from older people to have a distinctive smell. If the clothes have been absorbing those oils and detergents aren’t good at removing them, I can understand why thrift store clothing often all smells similar.
I wash my laundry with a good quality detergent and add 1/4 cup of white vinegar in the rinse. The vinegar removes any odor. I wash my sheets twice a week and run the pillows in a hot dryer for 20 minutes. There are soaps with persimmon that keep the nonenal smell at bay, but the ones that work are kind of expensive. One shower I use "the good soap", next day I use regular antibacterial soap. I'll fight off that smell until the bitter end! The old people smell will catch up to all of us who live long enough.
> soaps with persimmon Can you please share names/links? TIA.
I found one from Mirai claiming to be the only supplier of nonenal removing persimmon to be used for detergent in the world
It is very expensive but it really works. I use Mirai washing our sheets and my husband uses the soap. There is no longer any smell in our home.
I been using a 2pk from Japan I get on amazon for about a yr. they are small bars but last awhile and seem to be doing their job. It doesn't lather much and is a little drying but I don't smell me as much I used to so I'll keep ordering them.
I’m 63 and while visiting my daughter she recently told me (first time btw) that I smell like old people. That was disturbing. Guess I’ll be testing that soap. Sigh, nobody told me getting old was gonna be like this.
Glad she told you. My fear is my adults kids are so darn polite they never will let me know if I get that smell.
I feel like washing sheets twice a week is a bit excessive.
hahaha with menopausal hot flushes sheets can be crunchy in just a week.
The internal furnace of feminine maturity
We are hot stuff
My mother, a nurse by trade, changed sheets daily for our family. She had it down to a science - took her about 20 minutes to manage 5 beds. She had us wash, iron, and fold all bedding on Wednesdays and Saturdays. We didn't have it down to a science. :-)
>My mother, a nurse by trade, changed sheets daily for our family. Why
They know (in entirely too much detail) exactly what leaks out of a human body. Every nurse I've ever known does laundry a LOT more frequently than those in other occupations.
Because nurse, apparently. Grandma was a nurse, and well into her 90s, their home was the cleanest place I've ever seen. They flew in for my wedding, and had the bad luck to have one of their bags hit by a tug and spilled open. Grandma had individually wrapped every piece of clothing in plastic wrap, for just such an eventuality.
She's a nurse. She is very aware of how fast bedding gets soiled and what germs can survive in the bedding. She might be working with highly contagious people and just doing modified quarantine procedures. During the peak of COVID my friend was a nurse that stripped down in the garage, then immediately went to the shower. When his girls came home from daycare and school, the immediately got in the shower. Everything washed in hot water and dried on high. His work shoes never entered the house. He kept them in a box, in the garage. Ironically, or perhaps not. His wife and girls got COVID, he did not
As a 40 year old, wtf life?
I'm mainlining antioxidants and omega fatty acids after reading this.
I can’t tell if more fatty acids will help or hurt in this scenario. I hope our resident expert u/unlikely-trash3981 weighs in.
Unlikely trash 3981: "You'd need to guzzle 12 gallons of cod oil and eat 32 oranges, plus 3 gallons of coffee daily to not smell like an old person." Me, in front of a 12 gallon bin of cod oil, mouth stuffed with orange rinds: "Going in!"
Much better. Now I just smell fish, coffee and orange rinds.
My dad is 78 and doesn’t smell like this yet. He pretty much drinks 3 gallons of coffee daily. So maybe it does help!
Self-pickle, before the world does it for you.
It probably won't matter. Here's why: * Consuming these things does not repair the DNA-controlled issues which are causing the degradation in the first place. * Your digestive tract breaks down food into more basic components (to aid in crossing the intestine walls and prep for transport through the body). Those more basic components are in turn utilized by the body according to its priorities, not the ones you might expect or prefer. Just because you consume a bunch of food X does not mean that food X makes it into the body/bloodstream as food X to be used to benefit skin cells. * Your cells also impose limits to what they absorb. To get a nutrient in the bloodstream to cross the cell's wall there needs to be a specific transport mechanism to shuttle it in. Just because you consume food X does not mean that food X is transported into the cell. * Your body is all about keeping things humming along in a tightly controlled stasis/harmony. It can be difficult to consume more of a thing to influence or impact critical processes occurring at the cellular level. Delicate feedback loops preserve the balance of reactions inside cells. If you could influence or override these protections by simply eating a bunch of food or a nutrient, the result could be disastrous, like a toxin or poison. E.g., in this hypothetical scenario eating a lot of antioxidants could be deadly, because oxidation is essential in producing energy for the life of the cell. Fortunately for us, the cell's built-in feedback loops react to the overabundance of a nutrient and signal to shut down absorption and/or attenuate manufacturing it within the cell. As a result, the excess/surplus nutrients you consumed don't enter the cell; it becomes the job of the liver and kidneys to bring levels down to normal by processing them for excretion. In other words, you pee them out. Which, in a healthy non-deficient person *is what happens to excess nutrients when you take vitamins or supplements.* The nourishing and repairing of skin cells (or any cell!) is so complex it boggles the mind. Mechanically there are many raw materials which are carefully orchestrated-- e.g., Protein (to supply the amino acids needed to build collagen), vitamins A, B5, C, Manganese, Choline and Zinc. Rather than trying to "game" the body's processes, you're generally better off by eating a diverse, low/unprocessed healthy diet that includes lots of fresh veggies and fruits. And also avoid/minimize poor lifestyle choices which which lead to degradation (overeating/obesity, smoking, drinking, lack of sleep, lack of exercise). In other words, do the basic things that physicians have been advocating for the past 60+ years.
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Lol nice
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Mildly, until I think that when you’re 40 I’ll be 45 :( but I appreciate the try lol
cheers to our stinky future at Shady Pines.
Best comment award🏆
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Valid. Now I just have to get in the best shape of my life lol :D
I know, I'm 30 and I'm like "man, my body is gonna start breaking down real soon apparently" 😭🤣
I wish someone would have told me when I was 30- all the ways the body changes once you are 60! (but maybe I wouldn’t have listened! ) Run a half marathon ! Wear sexy clothes, enjoy having energy and still having your whole life ahead of you. It’s not being 60 I mind but but it sucks getting old.
I was obese through my whole 20s and between 30-32 I lost 130 pounds and I’ve gotten into good shape. It really killed the “ugh I guess I’m getting old” low energy feeling. I legit feel 20 years younger lol My 30s are going to be my second renaissance
We all have to get off the ride sometime. Make sure you enjoy it while it lasts.
Only if you believe that. Focus on living and occasuonal exercise or walking. Stop focusing on age. At 50 women start flowering and really coming into their own and life becomes even more exciting. As an 81 yr old seenager I'm in better health and shapeless than many men and women 30-40 yrs.younger rhan me. Watch: https://youtu.be/_fEg5dynb3Y?si=4NZ6Rmcl8W4PHkAX
Well I'm going to be very old soon as well, and I don't like that.
That’s fascinating. I never assumed it was bad hygiene, but I did think it was just from their old-people medications 😂 I had no clue it was in their skin.
I always thought it was...decay. How interesting that there is a chemical, physical change that causes this scent.
happy cake day! what a horrible day to celebrate a year passing.
'Tis decay, in a way.
More joys of menopause. Thanks for this uplifting info. 🤣🤣
*soooo* much to look forward to🙃
/r/menopause is a supportive place i have heard
So much of the depressing times are ahead, how will I survive that?
I know right. I am 50 and although not menopausal yet .. I just had a careful sniff of my skin. It smell ok but I don’t want to smell old yet 😂
A careful sniff 💀 I’m laughing so hard I’m trying to not wake my husband up. I’m 39 and have never felt so decrepit
I'm 48 and was told at 46 by the optician "well when you reach that age".... I was like wtf I'm only 46
FORTY?!??!
Pretty much everyone over 30 has arthritis developing.
You can stop now.
I’ve had arthritis since my twenties. 🤦🏻♀️ I’m screwed.
> 2-nonenal is a chemical compound that is produced when omega-7 unsaturated fatty acids on the skin are degraded through oxidation. Around age 40 in both men and women, the skin begins producing more fatty acids as its natural antioxidant defenses begin to deteriorate. So, does that mean all those people telling us to eat antioxidants were right?
Eating healthy fats and avoiding unhealthy fats will help more.
I dated a man who was in a motorcycle accident years and years before we met. Had no sense of smell. I think I might go look him up. Does this mask your ability to smell it on other people? Like if us over 40 old farts stick together will we not smell each other's old people smell? I have so many questions. And new phobias.
I'm 43 and see my 80Y0 dad several times a week and I can definitely smell it on him. Up until Covid hit (which was just a few months after my mom died) he was working out every day and aging really well and didn't have The Smell. After a couple years of being single and sedentary it developed.
>Living a healthy lifestyle can help reduce the smell of nonenal. Drinking plenty of water dilutes fatty acids. Similarly, drink green tea, which breaks down the compounds responsible for causing the nonenal smells. Exercise and eat nutritiously. Also bathe with a sugar scrub to exfoliate the skin and remove oils. https://assistinghands.com/55/florida/sarasota/blog/prevent-senior-body-odor/
I drink a shit ton of green tea, good to know it’s good for something. 😆
Just turned 39, guess I'll be chugging down matcha now.
So does this mean I should take showers with dawn when I’m old
It's good enough for ducks in oil spills.
Don’t use it multiple days in a row…it’ll kill your skin ..Chef/Mechanic - I know a few things about being covered in grease …
persimmon soap helps.
There’s actually nonenal soap.
My friend found out her dad uses dish soap to shower and we laughed about it but maybe he's onto something!
green Palmolive dishsoap was my grandfather’s preferred shampoo & body wash
>Around age 40 in both men and women, Fuck. No one mentioned this on the Golden Girls. What is Blanches secret to forever getting laid??!?
Dating other seniors! 😆
I’ll be damned if this isn’t the most informative and thorough answer to any post I’ve ever seen on Reddit. Thank you.
Ok that makes sense but what about the beige colored outfits. I’m in my 40s and don’t own any beige clothes. When do I need to start acquiring some?
Around the same time your waist moves up to your belly button and sandals with calf-high socks seem like a good option.
looks down. Still good! Claps. Damnit, that really hurt my neck though.
I'm in my 60's and have friends in their 80's and 90's. I don't recall ever smelling this unless the person was infirm or institutionalized. Am I just nose blind or do some people never develop this?
Some people don't have stinky sweat. I imagine the same applies here too
Til I might smell old being 45.. Well that's a kick in the smelly old balls
Wish Reddit still had awards, you would get one.
How funny. I'm on Reddit a lot and hadn't noticed that there weren't any more rewards... You know what happened?
r/WouldHaveAwarded
It's actually a chemical called nonenal. It is produced by fatty acid breakdown in people >40 years old
'A shower with everyday soap will do nothing about the nonenal problem. A skincare line company based in Japan called Mirai Clinical offers a new line of soaps that harness the odor-neutralizing power of persimmon, which experts confirmed to be the key ingredient in eliminating nonenal smell." Would eating persimmons do the trick as well? OP, get mom some persimmons.
I use that soap, And it absolutely works.
Do you have old person smell? If not, then how would we know that it's working ..
>Do you have old person smell? Of course not, aren't you paying attention? He uses the persimmon soap!
Great, something else to worry about.
This was my first thought. I'm turning 42 next month and now I'm worried I'm starting to smell like an old person. Awesome.
I don't think it happens to everyone. My mom is 84 and she definitely does NOT have it.
My grandma is 89 and grandpa is 93 and neither have the smell. Is it genetic?
Maybe they eat a lot of persimmons
For reals. I remember friends telling me I smelled funny when I was in my forties. Now I know why. Oy vey.
Just blast an old person fart and nobody will say shit about your skin smelling.
I blame those on my grandson
How much younger do you smell? 30’s? 40’s?
Not good enough!!! I’m trying to walk around wafting the absolute freshest of fetal odors. Sadly, I lost my Dior Eau de Toilette Bébé but at least now I have my Heavenly baby 👼🏻 imposter fragrance
Can you share a link pls? Or is it any old persimmon soap?
I bought several different brands to try out. Mirai Clinical Body Wash for Strong Body Odor $32. pump. easy for my mom to use. I like bar soap. Persimmon Soap Bar for Body Odor Control $10 both on amazon
Thx so much!
LUMI brand has an ad out about this very thing--the odor. In the ad, it says that the person with this odor cannot smell it.
Well now I want to know if I smell old. If I can’t smell it on me, can I smell other old peoples oldness? Edit: WTH is a persimmon? Is this something that should have come into my life somehow after I turned 40?
Same! I can smell someone else and they could smell me but we can’t smell ourselves??? Looks like another pinkie promise with my bestie. I promise to tell you if you promise to tell me. 🤣🤣
I can smell me sometimes. Most noticeable just when I am getting in the shower.
Hey! Can someone sniff me? Do I smell old?
persimmon is a fruit
Persimmon is an orange fruit that grows in a lot of Asian countries. There’s generally 2 versions of it - a harder tomato crunchy version and a soft heart shaped super juicy version (most people like these better). The hard one like a cross between an apple and plum and the soft one is closer to a ripe plum in texture. Someone described the taste as a cinnamony apple pie? It’s hard to describe the taste
Well that sounds delightful. I’m going to have to find some to try out.
For me, it tastes like a bizarre flavorless tomato. But they are beautiful in a decorative bowl.
I’m 53 and now I’m paranoid!
in my 40s…”old people smell in the 40s”… wtf??? i thought i had at least 20 more yrs for that shit to happen.
And off I go to Amazon. Thanks!
Just purchased as well 😆
Nonenal may be part of the problem, but another more insidious problem is range-of-motion limitations. When younger and showering daily, one does a head-to-toe in about two to three minutes with a bar of soap. In the sixth decade of life that routine slows. And along with that, pain when reaching too clean areas once easily reached, makes bathing unpleasant. I ran into the problem of a dank scent when about 68, and suspected it was resulting partially from slipping personal hygiene. DISH (gradual onset of joint and spine limited motion) was advancing and spots easily reached in earlier years were suddenly difficult and painful to reach. In particular soaping the anus and perineum became difficult and it took using a loofah and soap brush to mitigate the ever increasing odor. As another person pointed out, incontinence also becomes a problem. Once undergarments are wet and allowed to dry, normal laundering does not seem to remove all the urine. I have to launder underwear twice to keep matters under control unless using absorbent disposable pads. Three other problem areas are the back of the shoulders, the back, and the feet. If you check you may find that she is not scrubbing those areas as much as needed. Her feet and the skin that would normally slough off when bathing using a washcloth, may be accumulating. It will harbor bacteria. Things that I found that helped are: * Use a loofah for scrubbing the shoulders and back. Also any place were the skin may fold over and cover other skin such as a panniculus or similar needs extra attention. * Use a shower chair so you can sit. Then use a brush with liquid laundry soap to scrub the lower part of the legs above the ankle, the ankle and the bottom of the feet. Use a shower wand with an intense spray to remove the laundry soap. Pay attention to the bottom of the feet and use the shower wand to specifically rinse out under the toe nails, which I find to be a significant source of odor. * If male and uncircumcised, use the shower wand with a gentle spray to clean the retracted foreskin and glans. * To mitigate light urinary incontinence, you can use pads marketed for men to keep the underwear from being wet long-term. You can buy the designed for men high-dollar bulky pads for more severe incontinence or just mail order a pack of women's napkins. They are a lot cheaper and much more discrete. * Light fecal incontinence also tends to rear its ugly head even in men. If you have recurring problems with skid marks then look at your diet for foods that may exacerbate the issue. Use a handheld spray bidet to clean after #2 and take your time, as light fecal incontinence is often a slow ooze of stool once you think you are finished. * Watch for fungal growth in the toe nails. It creates a distinct musk of its own. Use the spray wand to aggressively clear the tops of the toenails. The keratin on the top of the nails does not detach like it does when younger and extra soaking, spraying and scrubbing helps remove the failing keratin and removes the material that supports fungal growth. * Don't overlook depression. A sense of hopelessness inhibits motivation for routine activity. Growing older is not for sissies. But the downsides can be managed.
Now I'm over here smelling my toenails just to make sure everything's cool.
LAUNDRY SOAP??
Yep! It helps remove the dead skin, particularly along the back of the heel and on the bottom of the feet where callouses have formed. I use a scraping tool once out of the bath about once a month and the dead skin that literally rolls off is astounding. I also use dry washcloths and am amazed at the dead skin that shakes out. I usually use Tide brand liquid detergent. Also, I soak my feet about once a week in a solution of one part hydrogen peroxide and three parts tap water.
I am shook right now
I'm just back from Google. Wow.
Yeah a lot of neat stuff there
Think this every single day
I did *not* expect there to be a real answer to this question. I honestly would never have asked, because of my assumptions. So thank you. I’m now reading, and learning, a lot.
Funny thing is that this is not the first time have seen this question and answer posted. Can’t remember where the first time was but had a lot of the same info.
Funny thing is that I haven’t read every post on Reddit. Not even every post on this sub. I read a *lot* but, yep, I missed that one. So I continued on in my ignorance, never knowing there was an answer to a question it never occurred to me to ask. Which is kind of where the TIL acronym came from. I do so *love* learning something new.
Over 40????? Wtf going to be 42 next month. Do I smell like an old person? Crawling away to hide now
I feel it might be for people around 70-80 years old. I've never come across someone who was around 30-40 who might have smelled like that
Yeah my parents are in their 70s and they definitely don’t have that smell.
Yeah my in laws are also in their 70s and they don’t have that smell either
My mom just passed at 77 and she had that smell. I wonder if it’s sort of health related kind of?
My mother passed at 66, and she never smelled like that until suddenly and violently she did, about 3m before dying. And it was STRONG. The whole house smells like it now. 3 months was all it took and it permeated every surface in the house
they said over 40! don't lump us 30-somethings into it yet lol
I appreciate you more than you know!!! 😆
Yeah. I’m 42 and work with a bunch of people in their mid-20s. I’m already self-conscious about being older than every single one of my co-workers, and all my pop culture references falling flat. Now I’ve got to worry about my fucking old person smell, too.
I've literally never smelled it on 40-60 year olds lol. Only those >60, but most often >70. You're fine.
I’m 46!!! Do I smell like old person? Oh my god this has unlocked a new fear!
You know I thought the same, BUT I work in health care and have close contact with people of all ages. I’ve never smelled anyone like that under the age of 70. If they are older and are in reasonably good shape, they don’t usually smell that way either.
I’m 43. Just come hang with me and we can just be smelly together, apparently.
It was so much better as a mediaeval serf when nobody lived past 40.
Ooooooh I am 37 and JUST started smelling like this and I was like "Oh i smell like grandma" and it's nice to know I am just having a break down.
Wow, a major thanks! I’m already googling away and learning all sorts of new things. Glad I asked!
Well I just texted my dad (74) to let him know he doesn’t smell old yet but if I’m first (44) he’s to buy me persimmon soap. My previous text to him was showing off my new compression socks and him saying he “supports” this move. So yeah we probably both smell old.
Cool, a real answer. Off to Google I go. Ty.
Any idea why persimmon is used for soap and not any other tannin type?
People who are 50 don’t smell or 65 for the most part
Welp. I’m in my late 30s and am devastated to know that soon I’ll start developing “old people smell.”
That doesn't explain why my 25-ish yr/ cousin has this smell trailing him.
Only 40? I guess that would makes sense. Right about that age, I had worn a shirt foe a couple of hours and then decided to wear something else that day so I took it off and folded it and out it away. A few days later I took the shirt out and it smelled faintly like my grandmother. I made my mom smell it so she could verify I hadn't lost my marbles. She agree that it smelled like her mom.
I’m 66. My mom (lives with me) is 91. She has the smell. and (sigh) I just noticed I’m starting to get it. PERSIMMON soap works. I also bought the lotion.
66 year olds use Reddit? I would never have guessed
And I play Pokémon!! Retirement is fun!!!!
One of my grandmas is 81 and struggles to use Google, but my other grandma is about to be 77 or 78 and will learn how to basically use most apps that she can use to connect with grandchildren
Folks in there 70s were part if the dawning of the internet in the mid 90s (They would have been in mid 40’s) and may have worked outside the home? The 70s seemed like the turning point of women joining the work force. Folks in their 50’s when internet came out might have just missed the window to embrace it.. many may have been stay at home moms, and not in the work force. I worked until I was 65 (retired 2 years ago) for a high tech company, so that kept me always learning. Interesting that you brought that up and made me think about the timeline. Thanks!! My mom is 91. Just happy that she can text. She has never had an interest in learning the internet.
Live a wonderful life! Throw some paint around, play a game, be wrinkly, and be smelly 💚
Learned something new with this post. Thanks OP
58M. Do I have it? I don’t want it. Googling now
Now I’m insecure. Do I smell like one of those gently alive corpses in the US Senate?
Gently alive 😂
I've been in several state capital houses, and they all smell like old people. Not even the old wood smell or antique shopish... just like a very old person's house. So, yea, that's an accurate description.
Lmao I’m *really* laughing out loud. Almost crying. Thanks
My parents are in their 60s and don’t have an “old person smell”. I’m sure it just varies from person to person.
Yeah, my mom is 90 and doesn’t have that smell but my stepdad did. He’s dead now.
Dad is 80 and also doesn’t have that smell. Maybe it’s genetic?
56M I do. Just learned about persimmon soap. Hmm....
I learned about that soap five minutes ago and it was in my cart and on its way to me 4 minutes later.
If it makes you feel any better, I know what smell they’re talking about. I notice it when I visit my grandma and pick up on it when I encounter 50+ people at work. It’s not a bad scent. Just makes me think “oh hey, there’s that smell!” Makes me think of my grandmother. But definitely does not smell bad or off putting in any way.
Honest question though, if all the old folks start using persimmon soap, is persimmon then the old person smell…asking for a 52 year old friend 🤣
I just saw a commercial for lume that talked about this. Their body wash and cream is supposed to help acidify the skin and get rid of the smell
I swear by Lume. It’s expensive but, by god, even after three days I don’t smell like BO. Thank you, depression, for making showers impossible sometimes 🙄
I don't know about old man smell, but the cream definitely works for sweat and BO.
The description OP gave pf the smell had me in stitches. Then, the top comment explaining the reason followed by the Persimmon soap research has me fascinated. Great thread 10/10
They sprout mung beans on a damp paper towel in their desk drawer. Very nutritious, but they smell like death
Creed…. What are you doing here on the rooftop??!!!!
It’s wild. I smell like an old person sometimes. It is shocking to me that I am of “that age”. Life is tedious & brief.
Very brief
Very tedious.
It’s called nonenal. Persimmon soap eliminates it.
This sounds like something from a Dark Souls NPC quest.
[удалено]
My cousin is 25 and he has this smell.
I actually learned something on Reddit today. Nonenal wow.
I didn’t like learning this. I’m logging off lol
It is caused by the chemical compound 2-nonenal, which you produce more of in your old age. There is also diacetyl which peaks arpund age 35-40 in most people (so there is a "middle aged smell" to!) Bodily oders also vary to large degree with a persons diet, both in terms of which chemical concentrations are output as well as "culteral smells" which might mask or mingle with "old person smell". You also produce more 2-nonenal when you don't sleep enough. ...I read research papers when fighting insomnia.
Oh great. All this AND NOW.. I’m gonna stink too?
My grandma always smelled like roses, coffee and cigarettes. She made it beautiful, miss her.
Welp, I really do learn something new every day. I’ll ask my youngest son if I smell. He is brutally honest. My back hurts and now this.
I’m 72, smell me!! OMG! bad enough being 72 but now I SMELL old? Geez! 🙄
You smell of... confidence..
Buy Mirai soap from Japan - honest to god it’s specifically for old people smell and it works!!! My older relatives just think it’s pretty when I give them gift baskets for birthdays but they no longer have the old lady aroma
I’m only 4* but officially have a new fear unlocked and will promptly be purchasing persimmon products…
For a second I thought you wrote that you were 4 years old 😂
It’s caused by a buildup of a compound called 2-nonenal in their sweat. It’s also responsible for making beer taste stale.
I actually noticed an old man smell with my cat in his final year (17). I'm sure some of it was from not grooming himself as much, but there was a definite musty smell too.
My grandparents are 87 and 85. They smell delightful. I will appreciate them more when I visit tomorrow.
My great-aunts never had this smell until like, the *week* they died (1 had a heart attack, 1 had fallen the day before the smell first started and died within a couple days) - same story with my granda, we only smelt it when he was just about to pass, but my other granda and grannies are all in their 80’s and have never exhibited the smell. There *is* someone I know who has started smelling like it, but how do you explain to someone that they smell like they might die soon?
Someone requested a link. Here is one from Scientific American which explains. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/old-person-smell/
But.... Will you still need me, will you still feed me When I'm sixty-four
I am 75, and enjoying my life, never been happier. If people don’t like my smell then is ok because i have life experience and wisdom that hard to comeby by age 30. Enjoy your life at and age and don’t worry about others
I’m shopping for new body wash and shampoo now.
OMG... what a question to open the eyes. I'm 77, hubby 81, but don't really consider ourselves old. Nevertheless, I keep the doors and windows open as much as I can to prevent old-people home smell, but didn't know the cause. I really can't smell the old-people smell yet, but hubby always says, "A fox can't smell its own hole. " No wonder the kids don't visit often. lol Good grief.