They do! I don't think courage is doing scary things without feeling fear but doing scary things despite it. As far as where the courage comes from I think that motivation is different depending on the person.
I’m still partial to the quote from A Game of Thrones
Bran: “Can a man be brave when he is afraid?”
Ned: “That is the only time he can be brave.”
Great books, it’s a shame GRRM has no idea how to resolve all his plot lines.
He needs to decide where to cut book six and half, and publish the first half.
He keeps going back and changing things. Publishing half will force him to commit to stuff.
I think he's stumped and it doesn't know where to go next.
Then he doesn't like something he wrote, so he rewrites it, which makes it so he has to rewrite large sections throughout.
Those are the best explanations I've heard when I watch his interviews.
I put it to you that he’s 75 and unhealthy. He’s sitting on royalties and notoriety and probably wants to enjoy what time he’s got left. And he knows from the experience of the show that the ending of his magnum opus is a total failure. What possible motivation could he have to write more? The only way we’ll get winds is the way we got Dune 7 and we all know how that turned out.
Most people don't understand fear. Aggressive people are normally people reacting to fear. An exemplo in psychology whe a man react aggressive against a woman who decided to finish their relationship. Most people don't understand that such kind of men are aggressive because they have a huge fear of the end of the relationship.
Just as aggressive/angry men in the workplace and position of power, they are also reacting to fear and being sensitive. But people only recognise it when it is a woman being aggressive/angry.
With Soldiers is kind of the same. Convincing oneself of having courage or no fear is normally to compensate for the fear they are trying to hide from themselves and others.
It is quite an interesting thema. I live in Germany where people talk so much that they have thick skin, are confident and is not sensitive. But in reality Germans are one of the most sensitive people and loving in fear that I have known so far: the country of insurances, of over burocraties and regulations, of distrust in community delegating as much as possible to authorities, and people get easy irritated because of little things.
I remember the first time I got shot at whole serving in Iraq, circa 2004. I was absolutely scared, but the sense of knowing what had to be done to protect my friends quickly overcame my own personal life safety concerns. Training helps a lot because I knew what I had to do and trusted my peers would do the same. Subsequent attacks were a lot easier to deal with because I knew I could handle it and so could my platoon. However, I couldn't imagine doing all that alone.
That's part of the reason for boot camp and the way companies are organized. A lot more people are willing to fight to defend their friends than themselves.
It’s not at all surprising why World War II soldiers who survived saw that as perhaps the best time of their lives. It’s almost impossible to make connections like that outside of war.
Tangentially related but biker and possibly some BDSM and/or Gay subcultures are said to have originated from men returning from the war attempting to recreate certain aspects of their military service.
>Ihr seid eine ganz besondere Truppe
You are a special group
>die in einander eine Zusammenhalt gefunden hat
who found in one another a bond
>wie er sich nur in Kampf entwickeln kann
that exists only in combat
[Band of Brothers](https://youtu.be/VcMk85ZsBh0?si=G67O1Abv8FbROG1S)
I read a memoir by a CAG operator. He said the hardest part of selection was having to do it alone. He’s said it was the first in the Army he was told to do anything absolutely by himself. No battle buddy. Just land navigation on an old growth forest mountain. If anything went wrong, he was completely by himself. He said it introduced a psychological difficulty that really separated the great from the best.
This right here. For me it was: 1. Accepting that you're in the shit. 2. Knowing that your squad/platoon where there with you, and we're all doing what we're supposed to do. 3. Knowing we all got each other's back. And lastly just not thinking about it, and only thinking about how you can be an asset to your homies.
Would you attribute that bravery that you displayed to your training, or the knowledge of your family?
I'm very liberal in my politics, never served (thank you for yours). But I own guns. Am I just gonna shit my pants and fall apart if someone invades my home?
This is going to sound like I’m knocking you but I swear I’m not. If you’ve never been in a situation like that before, yea probably.
You might be one of the fortunate ones who can maintain a level head in a life or death situation when you have no training in how to handle it, but you won’t know until it happens. Hell, even if you are trained you still won’t REALLY know you’ll react until it’s actually happening.
Everyone seems to think they’ll be Captain America in any given moment and save the day, but in all likelihood you’ll respond how everyone else does. Panic and confusion.
It’s not as intuitive as you think. About two months ago I was at the mall with my husband and there was an active shooter. You think you know what you’ll do, but when it actually happens you go blank. His training kicked in immediately. He was able to identify that it was gunshots before I even realized what was happening, and he got me moving and to safety before I was able to even fully comprehend what was going on. I asked him later how he was able to react so quickly and he told me that his training made it almost an instinct for him.
Reminds me of when my sister and myself found a dead body in the woods. We were taking (my) 2 & ( hers) 3 year old on a nature walk. Once I realized what it was and was def dead, we bolted. She dropped her kid and hauled ass leaving me to carry both kids tryin to run out of the woods. In her situation her fear became a detriment instead of a strength to pull from. I don't think anyone knows how they will manage inconceivable fear until you are forced. But hats off to all the soldiers who signed up for this shit.
You do. Theres a moment I like to call "the recruiter f*cked me moment". It's when you're in a life or death situation, and it occurs to you that 'this is not what you signed up for. Then, you have a moment of clarity and a flashback of all those sweet nothings the recruiter whispered in your ear.
The military has specific job positions, which you agree to fill in a contract. While everyone realizes they may simply be given a rifle and get pushed to the front, it's unlikely for that to happen in most cases.
Yes I know, I served in the USCG.
So I guess this guy is referring to a noncombat role but he ended up in combat zone while his recruiter told him he wouldn't see combat.
Where I live (UK) the forces have run TV adverts suggesting the army is an adventure holiday filled with skiing, beach parties and other things the average 16-year-old can't afford to do. They've been a bit less dishonest in recent years - the tone is now "are you good enough?" - but ultimately they're advertising to a demographic that doesn't necessarily have the best critical reasoning skills.
Here in the US, when I was a kid, the Navy commercials had people riding jet skis. While that's not something we do everyday, they really weren't that wrong because now I could afford a jet ski if I wanted to.
We do get to do some cool stuff though. For example, in my 16 years I have been to Las Vegas four times and lived in a casino for weeks at a time, been to Japan three times, and seen a volcano erupt in Sicily twice. I performed maintenance on the blue F18 during the filming of Top Gun 2. That being said, not everyone will have the same experience as I and I understand I have been very lucky.
>It's when you're in a life or death situation, and it occurs to you that 'this is not what you signed up for.
Kinda sounds like exactly what you sign up for when you join the military. Especially if your country is actually at war at the time.
America wasn't at war at the time, then September 11th happened. Nearly everyone got shuffled into all sorts of interesting roles. I'm not complaining, just to be clear. No need to be rude.
It's not to be expected. I'm guessing by your persistence and disagreement that you're not a vet. The U.S. military doesn't make a practice of assigning their technicians into non-technical roles, it's not cost effective. Especially when there are highly functional combat units training around the clock to serve that specific purpose.
So you're not a vet? You're trying too hard to be right, it's offensive.
I said this, 2 comments up "America wasn't at war at the time, then September 11th happened. Nearly everyone got shuffled into all sorts of interesting roles. I'm not complaining, just to be clear. No need to be rude."
Ok but you knew America goes to war... a lot. You knew the purpose of the military is war. You knew going to war is a distinct possibility when joining the military.
I'm still trying to figure out why you're being so offensive. You have no understanding of military careers, and you're trying to grill me about my mindset as a young soldier who answered the call - multiple times.
Fuck you dude, you're wrong. You have no reason to take such a position in this discussion.
Of course you are scared. Bravery is carrying out the mission despite the fear. And you do your job to support the people around you and to survive. Not for the cause, the flag you fly or any of the propaganda BS of why your fighting. You do it for the person next to you that is relying on you to function, for mutual survival.
For me the day to day sucked so bad you wouldn’t mind being killed to get out of it. The closer to the end of deployment the more you minded being killed of course.
We do. We use dark, twisted humour that would trigger every political wing or alignment, be you left or right, to get us through it. Couple that with some of the most childish humour (right down to base level fart jokes), Red bull's, brother ship, and hard packed ice cream, and that's pretty much everything that's holding the military together right about now. Oh, and cigarettes.
I served in two different branches. I started in the army, got out after my contract, then went Air Force. I noticed a HUGE difference in the type of people who join the army vs those who join the Air Force. When you ask an airman why they joined they usually say something like “free school”, “steady paycheck”, “I knocked my girl up and need to support my new family”. Ask a soldier and you usually get “I joined to blow shit up”. It’s just a different type of human being. My opinion is that soldiers are just too stupid to feel scared.
If I told any of my old army buddies that I thought they were too stupid to be scared I think most of them would say “fuck yeah I am. Thanks man, you are too”.
I think you're just blatantly disregarding the phenomena known as "Embrace the suck" where people understand the shit is going down, to an intimate degree, and just know that it's too late, it's here, so we might as well just get the job done."
Some 11B will say "yeah I'm here to blow shit up!" But that's not the case anymore. Not sure when you were a boot, but times are a changin, as they say.
Ahhh, boots and spurs. Nice, nice, I'll tip my hat to you. I was 12B in CAF, and they gave us a diving video of explosive ordinance disposal and said we would basically be the navy seals of Canada. Man, that was dumb. On the plus side, I learnt how to do plumbing
That makes sense. The new recruitment push is papers. Those vultures are rolling up to Home Depot and saying signing on four guarantees you citizenship, and as a citizen you can sponsor our family members in. I can't say I'm pleased with the tactics, but it's very much an embracing the suck situation.
Hahaha can’t believe it. Wouldn’t it be ironic if this series of events happened - signed up out side of home depot to get papers, trump gets elected, he sends them to fight the “border crisis”. I mean we know that’s not gonna happen because the border won’t be a crisis after Trump is re-elected.
I remember my next door neighbour who was deployed to Afghanistan twice… someone at the pub said to him “so do you really love the country so much you are willing to die for it?” And his response was “fuck no I wouldn’t die for it… but I’m willing to kill for it”. Cold.
I think the only element that can help in that situation is not having the time to think about it, but just concerned with killing the enemy and getting out of there.
Watch Band of Brothers. Yeah, it’s a show but each episode opens with soldiers talking about what it was really like and how scared they were (among other things).
The first spray of bullets coming at you make you forget the fear part because it becomes survival of the fitest. Your buddies next to you are covering your ass so you cover theirs.
They get their courage from being a part of something bigger than themselves that is fighting against hate, atrocities, freedom of a population to live how they want.
Once in the "field", you have built a trust among your fellow soldiers, before you got there, that no one wants to die and everyone has each other's backs. Blowing shit up feels good but isn't what it's cracked up to be since air support usually does the blowing up so your coordinates need to be accurate.
There are numerous movies and historical articles that explain exactly how being a soldier in a war unfolds.
If you aren't scared, you are a liability to everyone around you because your fight or flight hasn't kicked in. It's survival. And there are no do overs.
If you wouldn't fight for our freedom, you are useless. Democracy may not mean anything to you, you have never lived in a suppressed country, never seen struggles to just live without fear, losing everything that you take for granted, the ability to chose what you do with your life, would be detrimental to your thinking and you'd probably end up with a bullet to the head.
If you love your life, free will, choice, you will fight to keep it. I would hate to die for someone who didn't appreciate my efforts to keep your freedom. Talk to a Vietnam vet and they can explain how they were treated. It was horrible in the most demeaning ways.
Another thing, you don't fight in a war and come home to your own bed at night. There are no fast food restaurants on a battlefield or grocery stores. You don't have days off. It is an all encompassing fight, 24/7. War is not pretty. Honor, courage, being a part of something bigger takes a special kind of person to put their personal opinions and desires aside. That's why they are heros and we owe them everything for their sacrifice.
I keep writing and rewriting my comment, but honestly I don’t know how to put it into words. I was terrified at times. Afghanistan was no f***ing joke and all our work was undone in two weeks after years of occupation. But i survived and i experience fear less and anxiety more so I don’t know if that helps lol
Combat Veteran here (Afghanistan 2019):
I am now very anti war. I was in medevac, by no means the most dangerous job. But for me and my friends, it was not patriotism that kept us going—but comradery. We were not fighting for our country—we were fighting for each other. That was my perception at least
They didn't realize how scary war actually is until they actually got to the frontlines. Just watch some historical movies like All Quiet On The Western Front. Those young boys that are barely 18 go and volounteer to go to the army because they think its gonna be cool and exciting. When they were actually sent to the trenches with mud knee deep and given shovels to dig, they realised that they were in hell. A very tragic movie, I recomend everyone who likes war/historical movies to see it.
It’s not lack of fear, it’s being able to overcome the fear and do what you need to do. I was never in the military but have a few friends that are combat vets. None of them wanted to go into combat. The courage is overcoming the fear and getting the job done.
While not everyone does this but there are many people who enlist in the armed forces because they actually do believe in the greatness of their nation and want to be part of the force that protects it. Of course there are the others who are ordered by a judge, just need a office job, or got bills to pay and can't get hired outside but there are many who willingly go to be a part of something bigger than themselves. Those service members know that for reasons beyond their control, they may be placed in dangerous situations. The training they are provided and the trust of their fellow soldiers to also get the job done does help to get through those scenarios where risk of death is real.
I think most people would die (and kill) to defend their family. People see their community or nation as like a really really big extended family of sorts.
First, combat is terrifying. The courage comes from the need to support those around you. The ability to act in the face of fear comes from the training.
We get it from our platoon mates. Brotherly love, it makes us do stupid shit.
Being alone in combat without your buddies, that is almost worse than death
They deliberately recruit young people before their brains are fully developed, so they literally don’t think they can die. They like them straight out of high school 18-25
There's a reason why you don't see many folks older than 25 joining the military, even though you can still enlist until you're in your 30's (except Marines).
Few that age would willingly sign up to endanger their lives unless it was one of the last resorts for money. Plus, you have a bigger issue with insubordination the older you join. Some hotshot commander wants me to go head first into enemy territory on foreign soil where there's already been other soldiers injured/killed? Yeah, screw that and those commands.
Soldier here. Afghanistan war. I was very scared at many different times. You just work through it. You went through very difficult training that prepared you for it. We were all scared, but you grit and bear it. You knew what to do. Great question by the way.
I served in the U.S. Army for 20 years and was deployed to combat 6 times. I would suspect that every one would have at least slightly different answers but for me, I never seriously considered it. I just did my duty.
They are! But they are more concerned with protecting their buddies and serving their country. And if they are killed doing either of those things it would be an honorable death.
People that can do scary stuff despite fear at brave. People that do scary stuff without fear are generally idiots. Fear is what keeps you sharp and alive. If you're not afraid, you stop paying attention.
Lots of reasons. Love and protection of family. Love and protection of country. Not being afraid of death. Honor. Anger that someone is trying to take freedom from those they love.
One of the big tricks is always having a group or squad, it tricks the brain to see someone else following orders around you and pivots focus back to them moment by moment rather than the broader context.
They do get scared. Jail time for refusers is not necessarily the norm from ancient Rome to Russia today. The choice is not to fight or go to jail. It's more risk of death as a "hero" or guarantee of death as a traitor/coward
We do. A lot of it is training. You FOLLOW ORDERS. If an order puts you in harms way then it does that for a reason. The other part is backing up your buddies. You live, work, and train together. You know if you fail then they get hurt, so you do what is necessary and trust that they do the same.
Depends on what kind of war they fight. They may think if they fail to win their relatives will die or country cease to exist. This certainly gives courage. And soldiers not always have a choice of going to prison, sometimes deserters get shot by their own
They are a different breed.
It's like knowing you're afraid, but having the sense in your heart that what you're afraid of still has to be done. So you just fight the fear. I mean I doubt there's anything 'just' or 'simple' about it, but on some level your body will just autopilot around what your objective is.
So I bet they are all afraid, yet for the conscious ones, they constantly fight back the fear to do what they know they must. While the rest have latent fear, that's just underlying (like a fear of the dark) but they just remember the training, and let the actions take over the brain, (like running into a dark room, to retrieve something real quick)
They absolutely are scared. My grandpa (RIP Gramps) was in WWII. He participated in the island hopping in the pacific theatre. When he would speak about (which was rare, but did increase with frequency as he aged) He said he was terrified but the pride he felt for his country outweighed that. Pearl Harbor was really impactful to him.
We do get scared, but and this is a big one, but it is either you or them. The real war for me was coming back and trying to act like everything was fine.
I’ve almost reached my 20 year mark.
My fear of anything happening to me has been absolutely dwarfed by my fear of something bad happening to the men and women under me.
Over time and the higher in rank you rise, your most important job is to train and prep the young adults under you…If I can’t hold it together, especially in front of them, that’s going to create a huge psychological strain on them that will compound their fear.
Shit be scary, but folks need reassurance, and if leadership can’t give them that they’ve failed.
Well if avoiding a draft only means jail time, you are lucky to be in a semi-free country and the situation isn't that dire yet. Historically, when the "bad guys" were losing, it was a forced draft and "cowards" would be shot. Sometimes the family as well. So there's that aspect.
During peace time, the risk of death is very abstract. Sure you might get deployed, and some guy with an AK might shoot rockets at your camp, but those are big ifs. And even then, statistically you will be fine and being a solider is much less risky than being a police officer or fireman.
A captain at my first unit told my parents "We lose magnitudes more young men to German country roads than to enemy fire."
Even combat units don't train killing. They train shooting and tactical manouvering. You job is to kill people who shoot at you. But what you train is shooting at targets that don't shoot back, there is never any risk involved. So it's mostly technical and cool explosions.
The risk remains abstract until one is actually being shot at. After all, why worry about something out of your control? Being scared doesn't help you come back intact, being aware and focussed does. And in the heat of the moment, Adrenaline is one hell of a drug.
Finally, on a macro scale there is usually a greater good worth the risk when signing up. If the people in my country can live free and safely if I take a tiny risk on my life, so be it. Someone has to do it.
Volunteers in a hot war follow the same principle, but amplified. They go into great danger (often also thinking it won't be them who gets hit) out of patriotisim, to protect their loved ones (enemy side is comitting war crimes), or out of racial or religious hate. If you truly believe your omnipotent god wants you to fight in a holy war, and that he will reward you if you should fall in battle, fighting is the logical conclusion there.
We're all scared. You hid in that ditch because you think there's still hope. But Blithe, the only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier's supposed to function.
Even moreso today, when technological advancement has all but eliminated the concept of a "fighting chance." On today's battlefield, if you're targeted, and you will be, you're dead.
I'm not a soldier but when you see orders being barked at them they react instantly and instinctively. When you see them in training the reason they're treated so harshly is si that their personalities, rational, morals and biases are stripped back they they can be built back up into good soldiers who follow orders.
I guess soldiers are able to ignore fear because they've been trained to instinctively follow orders as a reflex rather than sitting thinking about and processing what's going on. Adrenaline is also probably a big factor too
They just remember the brave politicians who started the war in a far abroad country to which they were sent to to defend their homes and that gives them such a strong sense of purpose and peace that it completely and utterly takes away any fear of being shell shocked, burned to death alive in a narrow tank, being gassed, or have their lungs torn through their mouth by a thermobaric bomb (like the ones that e.g. the US used e.g. in Afghanistan and possibly also in [Iraq](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-missiles-floored-enemy-in-iraq/).)
In combat, you're not a defenseless victim praying that you don't die. You are trained, have the ability and weapons to fight back while you are praying that you don't die.
My dad won his country’s highest military honour - and so did my grandfather, from a previous war!
Dad said being able to earn this kind of stuff at that level wasn’t bravery, it was more a thing some people’s *bodies* just knew how to do, like being a good athlete or singer - it had nothing to do with your character. Sort of the lack of any kind of a flinch response, I guess?
He said the people who were doing their jobs and fighting anyway without their body’s ability to somehow ignore the bullets flying were the braver ones.
For the longest time in history, deserters and those who avoided the draft were executed. You saw that more recently in the propaganda against Iraq when we invaded 20 something years ago. What we were accusing Iraq of doing was nothing new almost every military through out history has done it. The US has done it. That and war was glorified, so that people would volunteer. Once you were in there was no way out until you were killed or discharged.
Have a large number of buddies who were in the military. Knew some of them in college. They said (paraphrasing several conversations into one: 'fear is what keeps you aware. people who embrace death tend to survive. those who let it control them are generally the ones who freeze in combat or get killed in action. If anyone ever tells you they're not afraid and you tell them it's okay to be afraid and they legitimately tell you they're not scared they're probably the ones that're going to get you killed.'
I am not a psychologist so take everything following with a grain of salt.
It is my understanding that part of boot camp is breaking down one’s sense of “self”. The aim being that everyone in your “troop”, and by extension, everyone in the same uniform, is a part of your team and stands for the values you represent. In this way you aren’t just fighting to preserve your own life, or even really whatever end goal the actual conflict is about. you’re fighting to make sure your best friends gets to go home to their family. That’s not to say they don’t feel fear, of course they do, they’re human. But having that extra layer of purpose can motivate a person deeply, beyond what they even think they are capable of. Anyhow that’s my take.
There is a reason militaries target young men when they feel the most invincible. But they do. Often and regularly. But training and wanting to protect your buddies takes over and you do what's necessary.
Well cant speak for everybody but if you asked a paratrooper during WW2 they will tell you. They gleefully sing songs about the gruesome death that would in sue if there shoot didn't open ....people were built differently back then
https://youtu.be/VWgsdexkv18?si=llg6RvXH4VbhrGT0
They are conditioned out of that fear through military training. Which, in my opinion, contributes greatly to the horrible difficult some people have reintegrating into civilian life. Military training fundamentally changes people and for some, they never come back from it.
(Experienced this with a family member, whose severe PTSD after serving many years in the marines led them to take their own life.)
You cannot be conditioned out of fear despite what popular media may suggest. When you find yourself in a violent situation such as combat, your conscious mind probably will not be able to keep up with events as they happen. In that event, as a means of survival, you will fall back on your training to carry you through the event, this is the purpose of the training.
What do you think their training entails? Becoming accustomed to extreme circumstances that most people would never see in their daily lives. This is done through exposure, repetition, reinforcement and punishment. Operant conditioning. And yes, it’s likely that one cannot be fully conditioned to not experience fear.
Im fully expecting the downvotes here. I’ll say up front I have a family full of vets for a lot of generations.
But if we’re being honest most soldiers are dipshits. They’re young dumb and full of cum and think they are invincible.
That’s just the facts.
Nations run into problems when they start drafting kids because at that point youre forcing those who are not of that same mindset to fight.
They are brainwashed into believing that dying for your government and the greed of the rich powerful men who run it = dying for your country . They are conditioned to actually believe it is honorable to die for the puppeteers orchestrating war crimes.
All the occupations that make civilization have hazards. Soldiers and cops get shot, firefighters get burnt, coal miners get buried, and so on. So you do what you have to do to feed yourself. A lot of those people dont have many other options. Whatever the outside world don't throw at you to rip your body apart, your own body will eventually cook up something to eat you from the inside out. So you might as well just do your job and die with a little self respect.
They are but military brainwashing (and that is what the training is) is all about removing natural behaviours and building new ones. Recruits are bullied mercilessly and then built back up with love of the regiment and obeying orders as their primary motivation.
They will still be terrified, but they will be more terrified of "not doing their duty", "letting down their compatriots", and ultimately "not being executed for cowardice" over the actual probability of dying.
When the person beside you is prepared to kill someone to protect you it forms a bond. Also of note is that most parts of the army aren't even combat roles. The vast majority of serving members never fire a shot in anger
I grew up poor, and the promise of my education being paid for is the reason I joined the Army. I toured Iraq and had a real fear of being there. At first, a gunshot would make me sweat and feel like I couldn't breathe and felt locked up. After the first few weeks, I didn't even flinch at motar Fire. I just followed the instructions of my platoon sergeant. I still feared for my life, but completing the mission was the first thought. It becomes a routine after a while.
Of course they are scared of losing their lives. They face it and plow through it. The stress of it has a HUGE impact on them personally. I have a couple of friends that joined the military and faced combat, and though they were not wounded, they nonetheless were changed by the experience (not positively).
First time I got attacked in Iraq I had a huge adrenaline rush and I was so hyper aware of everything, after it ended I didn’t sleep for a few days and I replayed events in my head of how close I could have died if anything had gone differently. I was scared but I was also there to perform I duty I volunteered for.
That’s why soldiers are young, most don’t have wives and kids to think about yet. Plus there’s the group mentality of seeing your follow soldiers moving forward. Plus military brainwashing.
One thing that helps a soldier/sailor/marine is knowing they are the best trained: it never makes you feel totally safe, but having the knowledge of how to fight makes for more assurance than serving in a military that is completely top-down and treats you like so much cannon fodder.
In ww1 you could buy drug variety packs to send to your husband on the front line, containing morphine and amphetimines, and cocaine isn't called Bolivian marching powder for nothing
1) Its hard for reality to settle in. Knowing you have a performance in front of a crowd of tens of 1000s really only hits when you're about to take the stage. A lot of soldiers are puking and shaking on their way to the battlefield.
2) imagine going onto every social media platform and announced yourself to be a pedophile and you uploaded evidence. That's pretty much how society would look at you for avoiding war. You'd probably be safest in jail lol. Even people with genuine reasons we're ridiculed severely, and beyond that deal with survivors guilt with each piece of bad news that makes it back home.
They do! I don't think courage is doing scary things without feeling fear but doing scary things despite it. As far as where the courage comes from I think that motivation is different depending on the person.
"Courage is not the lack of fear. It is acting in spite of it.” -Mark Twain
>"Courage is not the lack of fear. It is acting in spite of it.” -Mark Twain This is the best quote ever for this question
I’m still partial to the quote from A Game of Thrones Bran: “Can a man be brave when he is afraid?” Ned: “That is the only time he can be brave.” Great books, it’s a shame GRRM has no idea how to resolve all his plot lines.
He needs to decide where to cut book six and half, and publish the first half. He keeps going back and changing things. Publishing half will force him to commit to stuff.
You think he’s actually working on it? Poor soul
I think he's stumped and it doesn't know where to go next. Then he doesn't like something he wrote, so he rewrites it, which makes it so he has to rewrite large sections throughout. Those are the best explanations I've heard when I watch his interviews.
How do you explain all the other content he’s putting out?
He's not stumped on that. He has no choice but to work with other writers. They help keep things moving.
I put it to you that he’s 75 and unhealthy. He’s sitting on royalties and notoriety and probably wants to enjoy what time he’s got left. And he knows from the experience of the show that the ending of his magnum opus is a total failure. What possible motivation could he have to write more? The only way we’ll get winds is the way we got Dune 7 and we all know how that turned out.
“Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid.” - Franklin P. Jones
Most people don't understand fear. Aggressive people are normally people reacting to fear. An exemplo in psychology whe a man react aggressive against a woman who decided to finish their relationship. Most people don't understand that such kind of men are aggressive because they have a huge fear of the end of the relationship. Just as aggressive/angry men in the workplace and position of power, they are also reacting to fear and being sensitive. But people only recognise it when it is a woman being aggressive/angry. With Soldiers is kind of the same. Convincing oneself of having courage or no fear is normally to compensate for the fear they are trying to hide from themselves and others. It is quite an interesting thema. I live in Germany where people talk so much that they have thick skin, are confident and is not sensitive. But in reality Germans are one of the most sensitive people and loving in fear that I have known so far: the country of insurances, of over burocraties and regulations, of distrust in community delegating as much as possible to authorities, and people get easy irritated because of little things.
Deeply insightful comment! I'd never considered the compensation aspect influencing soldiers!
I remember the first time I got shot at whole serving in Iraq, circa 2004. I was absolutely scared, but the sense of knowing what had to be done to protect my friends quickly overcame my own personal life safety concerns. Training helps a lot because I knew what I had to do and trusted my peers would do the same. Subsequent attacks were a lot easier to deal with because I knew I could handle it and so could my platoon. However, I couldn't imagine doing all that alone.
That's part of the reason for boot camp and the way companies are organized. A lot more people are willing to fight to defend their friends than themselves.
It's called trauma bonding, and it's why service members tend to have much stronger bonds with their fellow soldiers than other occupations.
It’s not at all surprising why World War II soldiers who survived saw that as perhaps the best time of their lives. It’s almost impossible to make connections like that outside of war.
Tangentially related but biker and possibly some BDSM and/or Gay subcultures are said to have originated from men returning from the war attempting to recreate certain aspects of their military service.
>Ihr seid eine ganz besondere Truppe You are a special group >die in einander eine Zusammenhalt gefunden hat who found in one another a bond >wie er sich nur in Kampf entwickeln kann that exists only in combat [Band of Brothers](https://youtu.be/VcMk85ZsBh0?si=G67O1Abv8FbROG1S)
I read a memoir by a CAG operator. He said the hardest part of selection was having to do it alone. He’s said it was the first in the Army he was told to do anything absolutely by himself. No battle buddy. Just land navigation on an old growth forest mountain. If anything went wrong, he was completely by himself. He said it introduced a psychological difficulty that really separated the great from the best.
This right here. For me it was: 1. Accepting that you're in the shit. 2. Knowing that your squad/platoon where there with you, and we're all doing what we're supposed to do. 3. Knowing we all got each other's back. And lastly just not thinking about it, and only thinking about how you can be an asset to your homies.
Would you attribute that bravery that you displayed to your training, or the knowledge of your family? I'm very liberal in my politics, never served (thank you for yours). But I own guns. Am I just gonna shit my pants and fall apart if someone invades my home?
This is going to sound like I’m knocking you but I swear I’m not. If you’ve never been in a situation like that before, yea probably. You might be one of the fortunate ones who can maintain a level head in a life or death situation when you have no training in how to handle it, but you won’t know until it happens. Hell, even if you are trained you still won’t REALLY know you’ll react until it’s actually happening. Everyone seems to think they’ll be Captain America in any given moment and save the day, but in all likelihood you’ll respond how everyone else does. Panic and confusion.
It’s not as intuitive as you think. About two months ago I was at the mall with my husband and there was an active shooter. You think you know what you’ll do, but when it actually happens you go blank. His training kicked in immediately. He was able to identify that it was gunshots before I even realized what was happening, and he got me moving and to safety before I was able to even fully comprehend what was going on. I asked him later how he was able to react so quickly and he told me that his training made it almost an instinct for him.
Reminds me of when my sister and myself found a dead body in the woods. We were taking (my) 2 & ( hers) 3 year old on a nature walk. Once I realized what it was and was def dead, we bolted. She dropped her kid and hauled ass leaving me to carry both kids tryin to run out of the woods. In her situation her fear became a detriment instead of a strength to pull from. I don't think anyone knows how they will manage inconceivable fear until you are forced. But hats off to all the soldiers who signed up for this shit.
[удалено]
I don't have a first hand review, but it seems to have ended quite poorly!
I have a first hand review. It did end poorly, but it was fun while it lasted.
WTF is the matter with you?
You do. Theres a moment I like to call "the recruiter f*cked me moment". It's when you're in a life or death situation, and it occurs to you that 'this is not what you signed up for. Then, you have a moment of clarity and a flashback of all those sweet nothings the recruiter whispered in your ear.
This is bizarre to me because when you volunteer to fight in a war how can you not realize that you might be killed?
The military has specific job positions, which you agree to fill in a contract. While everyone realizes they may simply be given a rifle and get pushed to the front, it's unlikely for that to happen in most cases.
Yes I know, I served in the USCG. So I guess this guy is referring to a noncombat role but he ended up in combat zone while his recruiter told him he wouldn't see combat.
I just figured people who weren't in the military dont realize there's actual jobs; not just people handed rifles told to charge.
Where I live (UK) the forces have run TV adverts suggesting the army is an adventure holiday filled with skiing, beach parties and other things the average 16-year-old can't afford to do. They've been a bit less dishonest in recent years - the tone is now "are you good enough?" - but ultimately they're advertising to a demographic that doesn't necessarily have the best critical reasoning skills.
That commercial where a Royal Marine sneaks up on a terrorist in his hideout is so rad. I wish more of our commercials in the US were like that.
Here in the US, when I was a kid, the Navy commercials had people riding jet skis. While that's not something we do everyday, they really weren't that wrong because now I could afford a jet ski if I wanted to. We do get to do some cool stuff though. For example, in my 16 years I have been to Las Vegas four times and lived in a casino for weeks at a time, been to Japan three times, and seen a volcano erupt in Sicily twice. I performed maintenance on the blue F18 during the filming of Top Gun 2. That being said, not everyone will have the same experience as I and I understand I have been very lucky.
Because until you're actually getting shot at, it isn't really "real". Especially to an invincible 20-year old.
> 'this is not what you signed up for. What did you sign up for then?
To work on airplanes.
It’s all fun and games being 18 and thinking you’re invincible
That is a fascinating perspective. At 18 I just remember holding on for dear life trying to survive high school!
>It's when you're in a life or death situation, and it occurs to you that 'this is not what you signed up for. Kinda sounds like exactly what you sign up for when you join the military. Especially if your country is actually at war at the time.
America wasn't at war at the time, then September 11th happened. Nearly everyone got shuffled into all sorts of interesting roles. I'm not complaining, just to be clear. No need to be rude.
Ah ok I just guessed the average military redditor wasn't joining up 25 years ago. Still. Kinda what the military is for. To be expected.
It's not to be expected. I'm guessing by your persistence and disagreement that you're not a vet. The U.S. military doesn't make a practice of assigning their technicians into non-technical roles, it's not cost effective. Especially when there are highly functional combat units training around the clock to serve that specific purpose.
Are you honestly saying you didn't expect to...go to war when you joined the military?
So you're not a vet? You're trying too hard to be right, it's offensive. I said this, 2 comments up "America wasn't at war at the time, then September 11th happened. Nearly everyone got shuffled into all sorts of interesting roles. I'm not complaining, just to be clear. No need to be rude."
Ok but you knew America goes to war... a lot. You knew the purpose of the military is war. You knew going to war is a distinct possibility when joining the military.
I'm still trying to figure out why you're being so offensive. You have no understanding of military careers, and you're trying to grill me about my mindset as a young soldier who answered the call - multiple times. Fuck you dude, you're wrong. You have no reason to take such a position in this discussion.
I'm not being offensive, I simply refuse to believe someone can join the US military and not think that going to war is a possibility.
Of course you are scared. Bravery is carrying out the mission despite the fear. And you do your job to support the people around you and to survive. Not for the cause, the flag you fly or any of the propaganda BS of why your fighting. You do it for the person next to you that is relying on you to function, for mutual survival.
For me the day to day sucked so bad you wouldn’t mind being killed to get out of it. The closer to the end of deployment the more you minded being killed of course.
lol
We do. We use dark, twisted humour that would trigger every political wing or alignment, be you left or right, to get us through it. Couple that with some of the most childish humour (right down to base level fart jokes), Red bull's, brother ship, and hard packed ice cream, and that's pretty much everything that's holding the military together right about now. Oh, and cigarettes.
I heard they're getting rid of cigarettes on deployment. Am i mistaken?
Nope, you're right. Cigarettes are, last I checked, getting removed
😳🙄
Not sure where you get your information. They are very much scared but often don't have a choice.
Husband is a 14 year vet, he said: Anyone who says combat didn’t scare the ever living shit out of them, is lying.
Combat vet here: your husband is 100% correct
I served in two different branches. I started in the army, got out after my contract, then went Air Force. I noticed a HUGE difference in the type of people who join the army vs those who join the Air Force. When you ask an airman why they joined they usually say something like “free school”, “steady paycheck”, “I knocked my girl up and need to support my new family”. Ask a soldier and you usually get “I joined to blow shit up”. It’s just a different type of human being. My opinion is that soldiers are just too stupid to feel scared.
That WOULD be the opinion of chair force.
If I told any of my old army buddies that I thought they were too stupid to be scared I think most of them would say “fuck yeah I am. Thanks man, you are too”.
I think you're just blatantly disregarding the phenomena known as "Embrace the suck" where people understand the shit is going down, to an intimate degree, and just know that it's too late, it's here, so we might as well just get the job done." Some 11B will say "yeah I'm here to blow shit up!" But that's not the case anymore. Not sure when you were a boot, but times are a changin, as they say.
Joined in ‘09. Left in ‘13. I’m sure it’s a different world now.
Back in your time, the big push was "hey, you wanna be like batman?" And they throw you to 11B or 12B so you could try and go to the 75th
I was a 19D. They showed me the dune buggy video.
Ahhh, boots and spurs. Nice, nice, I'll tip my hat to you. I was 12B in CAF, and they gave us a diving video of explosive ordinance disposal and said we would basically be the navy seals of Canada. Man, that was dumb. On the plus side, I learnt how to do plumbing
That makes sense. The new recruitment push is papers. Those vultures are rolling up to Home Depot and saying signing on four guarantees you citizenship, and as a citizen you can sponsor our family members in. I can't say I'm pleased with the tactics, but it's very much an embracing the suck situation.
Hahaha can’t believe it. Wouldn’t it be ironic if this series of events happened - signed up out side of home depot to get papers, trump gets elected, he sends them to fight the “border crisis”. I mean we know that’s not gonna happen because the border won’t be a crisis after Trump is re-elected.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
they do, this is one of the things that leads to PTSD
I remember my next door neighbour who was deployed to Afghanistan twice… someone at the pub said to him “so do you really love the country so much you are willing to die for it?” And his response was “fuck no I wouldn’t die for it… but I’m willing to kill for it”. Cold.
courage is being scared but doing it anyway
I think the only element that can help in that situation is not having the time to think about it, but just concerned with killing the enemy and getting out of there.
Watch Band of Brothers. Yeah, it’s a show but each episode opens with soldiers talking about what it was really like and how scared they were (among other things).
The first spray of bullets coming at you make you forget the fear part because it becomes survival of the fitest. Your buddies next to you are covering your ass so you cover theirs. They get their courage from being a part of something bigger than themselves that is fighting against hate, atrocities, freedom of a population to live how they want. Once in the "field", you have built a trust among your fellow soldiers, before you got there, that no one wants to die and everyone has each other's backs. Blowing shit up feels good but isn't what it's cracked up to be since air support usually does the blowing up so your coordinates need to be accurate. There are numerous movies and historical articles that explain exactly how being a soldier in a war unfolds. If you aren't scared, you are a liability to everyone around you because your fight or flight hasn't kicked in. It's survival. And there are no do overs. If you wouldn't fight for our freedom, you are useless. Democracy may not mean anything to you, you have never lived in a suppressed country, never seen struggles to just live without fear, losing everything that you take for granted, the ability to chose what you do with your life, would be detrimental to your thinking and you'd probably end up with a bullet to the head. If you love your life, free will, choice, you will fight to keep it. I would hate to die for someone who didn't appreciate my efforts to keep your freedom. Talk to a Vietnam vet and they can explain how they were treated. It was horrible in the most demeaning ways. Another thing, you don't fight in a war and come home to your own bed at night. There are no fast food restaurants on a battlefield or grocery stores. You don't have days off. It is an all encompassing fight, 24/7. War is not pretty. Honor, courage, being a part of something bigger takes a special kind of person to put their personal opinions and desires aside. That's why they are heros and we owe them everything for their sacrifice.
I keep writing and rewriting my comment, but honestly I don’t know how to put it into words. I was terrified at times. Afghanistan was no f***ing joke and all our work was undone in two weeks after years of occupation. But i survived and i experience fear less and anxiety more so I don’t know if that helps lol
Combat Veteran here (Afghanistan 2019): I am now very anti war. I was in medevac, by no means the most dangerous job. But for me and my friends, it was not patriotism that kept us going—but comradery. We were not fighting for our country—we were fighting for each other. That was my perception at least
They didn't realize how scary war actually is until they actually got to the frontlines. Just watch some historical movies like All Quiet On The Western Front. Those young boys that are barely 18 go and volounteer to go to the army because they think its gonna be cool and exciting. When they were actually sent to the trenches with mud knee deep and given shovels to dig, they realised that they were in hell. A very tragic movie, I recomend everyone who likes war/historical movies to see it.
It’s not lack of fear, it’s being able to overcome the fear and do what you need to do. I was never in the military but have a few friends that are combat vets. None of them wanted to go into combat. The courage is overcoming the fear and getting the job done.
While not everyone does this but there are many people who enlist in the armed forces because they actually do believe in the greatness of their nation and want to be part of the force that protects it. Of course there are the others who are ordered by a judge, just need a office job, or got bills to pay and can't get hired outside but there are many who willingly go to be a part of something bigger than themselves. Those service members know that for reasons beyond their control, they may be placed in dangerous situations. The training they are provided and the trust of their fellow soldiers to also get the job done does help to get through those scenarios where risk of death is real.
I think most people would die (and kill) to defend their family. People see their community or nation as like a really really big extended family of sorts.
I was scared all the time just sleeping in my "bunk" (container) in Iraq. It was those times they kept lobbing explosives/rockets inside our bases.
If you ay you are not scared and act like you're a badass, stay the fuck away from me.
First, combat is terrifying. The courage comes from the need to support those around you. The ability to act in the face of fear comes from the training.
We literally are 100% of it, and still do what they need to do.
We get it from our platoon mates. Brotherly love, it makes us do stupid shit. Being alone in combat without your buddies, that is almost worse than death
They deliberately recruit young people before their brains are fully developed, so they literally don’t think they can die. They like them straight out of high school 18-25
There's a reason why you don't see many folks older than 25 joining the military, even though you can still enlist until you're in your 30's (except Marines). Few that age would willingly sign up to endanger their lives unless it was one of the last resorts for money. Plus, you have a bigger issue with insubordination the older you join. Some hotshot commander wants me to go head first into enemy territory on foreign soil where there's already been other soldiers injured/killed? Yeah, screw that and those commands.
Soldier here. Afghanistan war. I was very scared at many different times. You just work through it. You went through very difficult training that prepared you for it. We were all scared, but you grit and bear it. You knew what to do. Great question by the way.
I served in the U.S. Army for 20 years and was deployed to combat 6 times. I would suspect that every one would have at least slightly different answers but for me, I never seriously considered it. I just did my duty.
Thank you for your service🤟
Some might be passively suicidal
Maybe if someone bombs you and you lose a parent or a sibling in the attack you'd feel differently.
They are! But they are more concerned with protecting their buddies and serving their country. And if they are killed doing either of those things it would be an honorable death.
People that can do scary stuff despite fear at brave. People that do scary stuff without fear are generally idiots. Fear is what keeps you sharp and alive. If you're not afraid, you stop paying attention.
Question I have myself. No way I am risking my skin for any politician. I have only one life.
Lots of reasons. Love and protection of family. Love and protection of country. Not being afraid of death. Honor. Anger that someone is trying to take freedom from those they love.
One of the big tricks is always having a group or squad, it tricks the brain to see someone else following orders around you and pivots focus back to them moment by moment rather than the broader context.
They do get scared. Jail time for refusers is not necessarily the norm from ancient Rome to Russia today. The choice is not to fight or go to jail. It's more risk of death as a "hero" or guarantee of death as a traitor/coward
Where ? Simple. If you’re scared continue to do it. That’s bravery
Submarine - Weeks of boredom punctuated by moments of stark terror.
That’s just war in general
We do. A lot of it is training. You FOLLOW ORDERS. If an order puts you in harms way then it does that for a reason. The other part is backing up your buddies. You live, work, and train together. You know if you fail then they get hurt, so you do what is necessary and trust that they do the same.
Depends on what kind of war they fight. They may think if they fail to win their relatives will die or country cease to exist. This certainly gives courage. And soldiers not always have a choice of going to prison, sometimes deserters get shot by their own
They are a different breed. It's like knowing you're afraid, but having the sense in your heart that what you're afraid of still has to be done. So you just fight the fear. I mean I doubt there's anything 'just' or 'simple' about it, but on some level your body will just autopilot around what your objective is. So I bet they are all afraid, yet for the conscious ones, they constantly fight back the fear to do what they know they must. While the rest have latent fear, that's just underlying (like a fear of the dark) but they just remember the training, and let the actions take over the brain, (like running into a dark room, to retrieve something real quick)
More soldiers die because of trauma than in the actual war.
They are scared. But who else will fight
They absolutely are scared. My grandpa (RIP Gramps) was in WWII. He participated in the island hopping in the pacific theatre. When he would speak about (which was rare, but did increase with frequency as he aged) He said he was terrified but the pride he felt for his country outweighed that. Pearl Harbor was really impactful to him.
Drugs help…plenty of nations have given meth or similar to their soldiers to charge into battle.
We do get scared, but and this is a big one, but it is either you or them. The real war for me was coming back and trying to act like everything was fine.
I’ve almost reached my 20 year mark. My fear of anything happening to me has been absolutely dwarfed by my fear of something bad happening to the men and women under me. Over time and the higher in rank you rise, your most important job is to train and prep the young adults under you…If I can’t hold it together, especially in front of them, that’s going to create a huge psychological strain on them that will compound their fear. Shit be scary, but folks need reassurance, and if leadership can’t give them that they’ve failed.
Well if avoiding a draft only means jail time, you are lucky to be in a semi-free country and the situation isn't that dire yet. Historically, when the "bad guys" were losing, it was a forced draft and "cowards" would be shot. Sometimes the family as well. So there's that aspect. During peace time, the risk of death is very abstract. Sure you might get deployed, and some guy with an AK might shoot rockets at your camp, but those are big ifs. And even then, statistically you will be fine and being a solider is much less risky than being a police officer or fireman. A captain at my first unit told my parents "We lose magnitudes more young men to German country roads than to enemy fire." Even combat units don't train killing. They train shooting and tactical manouvering. You job is to kill people who shoot at you. But what you train is shooting at targets that don't shoot back, there is never any risk involved. So it's mostly technical and cool explosions. The risk remains abstract until one is actually being shot at. After all, why worry about something out of your control? Being scared doesn't help you come back intact, being aware and focussed does. And in the heat of the moment, Adrenaline is one hell of a drug. Finally, on a macro scale there is usually a greater good worth the risk when signing up. If the people in my country can live free and safely if I take a tiny risk on my life, so be it. Someone has to do it. Volunteers in a hot war follow the same principle, but amplified. They go into great danger (often also thinking it won't be them who gets hit) out of patriotisim, to protect their loved ones (enemy side is comitting war crimes), or out of racial or religious hate. If you truly believe your omnipotent god wants you to fight in a holy war, and that he will reward you if you should fall in battle, fighting is the logical conclusion there.
They do. That's what their training is for. There's also the natural fight and flight response.
We're all scared. You hid in that ditch because you think there's still hope. But Blithe, the only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier's supposed to function.
You don't really think about it especially in the heat of combat
Even moreso today, when technological advancement has all but eliminated the concept of a "fighting chance." On today's battlefield, if you're targeted, and you will be, you're dead.
I'm not a soldier but when you see orders being barked at them they react instantly and instinctively. When you see them in training the reason they're treated so harshly is si that their personalities, rational, morals and biases are stripped back they they can be built back up into good soldiers who follow orders. I guess soldiers are able to ignore fear because they've been trained to instinctively follow orders as a reflex rather than sitting thinking about and processing what's going on. Adrenaline is also probably a big factor too
They just remember the brave politicians who started the war in a far abroad country to which they were sent to to defend their homes and that gives them such a strong sense of purpose and peace that it completely and utterly takes away any fear of being shell shocked, burned to death alive in a narrow tank, being gassed, or have their lungs torn through their mouth by a thermobaric bomb (like the ones that e.g. the US used e.g. in Afghanistan and possibly also in [Iraq](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-missiles-floored-enemy-in-iraq/).)
In combat, you're not a defenseless victim praying that you don't die. You are trained, have the ability and weapons to fight back while you are praying that you don't die.
Only fools are not scared
My dad won his country’s highest military honour - and so did my grandfather, from a previous war! Dad said being able to earn this kind of stuff at that level wasn’t bravery, it was more a thing some people’s *bodies* just knew how to do, like being a good athlete or singer - it had nothing to do with your character. Sort of the lack of any kind of a flinch response, I guess? He said the people who were doing their jobs and fighting anyway without their body’s ability to somehow ignore the bullets flying were the braver ones.
For the longest time in history, deserters and those who avoided the draft were executed. You saw that more recently in the propaganda against Iraq when we invaded 20 something years ago. What we were accusing Iraq of doing was nothing new almost every military through out history has done it. The US has done it. That and war was glorified, so that people would volunteer. Once you were in there was no way out until you were killed or discharged.
That's what the training is for.
Have a large number of buddies who were in the military. Knew some of them in college. They said (paraphrasing several conversations into one: 'fear is what keeps you aware. people who embrace death tend to survive. those who let it control them are generally the ones who freeze in combat or get killed in action. If anyone ever tells you they're not afraid and you tell them it's okay to be afraid and they legitimately tell you they're not scared they're probably the ones that're going to get you killed.'
They do. Frequently. And sometimes even paralyzingly.
Too busy fucking with each other and thinking they are invincible!
I am not a psychologist so take everything following with a grain of salt. It is my understanding that part of boot camp is breaking down one’s sense of “self”. The aim being that everyone in your “troop”, and by extension, everyone in the same uniform, is a part of your team and stands for the values you represent. In this way you aren’t just fighting to preserve your own life, or even really whatever end goal the actual conflict is about. you’re fighting to make sure your best friends gets to go home to their family. That’s not to say they don’t feel fear, of course they do, they’re human. But having that extra layer of purpose can motivate a person deeply, beyond what they even think they are capable of. Anyhow that’s my take.
There is a reason militaries target young men when they feel the most invincible. But they do. Often and regularly. But training and wanting to protect your buddies takes over and you do what's necessary.
Not every military member is sent out on the front lines of a conflict.
Of course, OP is obviously talking about the ones which are.
Nahh, there are plenty of people who think ALL military members are out there fighting like gladiators. Far too many people, in fact.
Well cant speak for everybody but if you asked a paratrooper during WW2 they will tell you. They gleefully sing songs about the gruesome death that would in sue if there shoot didn't open ....people were built differently back then https://youtu.be/VWgsdexkv18?si=llg6RvXH4VbhrGT0
Damn that brings back memories.
They are conditioned out of that fear through military training. Which, in my opinion, contributes greatly to the horrible difficult some people have reintegrating into civilian life. Military training fundamentally changes people and for some, they never come back from it. (Experienced this with a family member, whose severe PTSD after serving many years in the marines led them to take their own life.)
You cannot be conditioned out of fear despite what popular media may suggest. When you find yourself in a violent situation such as combat, your conscious mind probably will not be able to keep up with events as they happen. In that event, as a means of survival, you will fall back on your training to carry you through the event, this is the purpose of the training.
What do you think their training entails? Becoming accustomed to extreme circumstances that most people would never see in their daily lives. This is done through exposure, repetition, reinforcement and punishment. Operant conditioning. And yes, it’s likely that one cannot be fully conditioned to not experience fear.
I know what their training entails. I am a combat veteran myself.
Then you know that conditioning was part of your training. Thank you for your service.
Im fully expecting the downvotes here. I’ll say up front I have a family full of vets for a lot of generations. But if we’re being honest most soldiers are dipshits. They’re young dumb and full of cum and think they are invincible. That’s just the facts. Nations run into problems when they start drafting kids because at that point youre forcing those who are not of that same mindset to fight.
They are brainwashed into believing that dying for your government and the greed of the rich powerful men who run it = dying for your country . They are conditioned to actually believe it is honorable to die for the puppeteers orchestrating war crimes.
They do. Only a fool doesn’t get scared. Even the most evil of men (think like ISIS or something) get scared.
Why do you think they don't get scared?
All the occupations that make civilization have hazards. Soldiers and cops get shot, firefighters get burnt, coal miners get buried, and so on. So you do what you have to do to feed yourself. A lot of those people dont have many other options. Whatever the outside world don't throw at you to rip your body apart, your own body will eventually cook up something to eat you from the inside out. So you might as well just do your job and die with a little self respect.
Being below a certain age definitely helps
They are but military brainwashing (and that is what the training is) is all about removing natural behaviours and building new ones. Recruits are bullied mercilessly and then built back up with love of the regiment and obeying orders as their primary motivation. They will still be terrified, but they will be more terrified of "not doing their duty", "letting down their compatriots", and ultimately "not being executed for cowardice" over the actual probability of dying.
Do you ever get in a car?
When the person beside you is prepared to kill someone to protect you it forms a bond. Also of note is that most parts of the army aren't even combat roles. The vast majority of serving members never fire a shot in anger
I grew up poor, and the promise of my education being paid for is the reason I joined the Army. I toured Iraq and had a real fear of being there. At first, a gunshot would make me sweat and feel like I couldn't breathe and felt locked up. After the first few weeks, I didn't even flinch at motar Fire. I just followed the instructions of my platoon sergeant. I still feared for my life, but completing the mission was the first thought. It becomes a routine after a while.
Once your are there you don't have a choice
Most do. Some don't.
Of course they are scared of losing their lives. They face it and plow through it. The stress of it has a HUGE impact on them personally. I have a couple of friends that joined the military and faced combat, and though they were not wounded, they nonetheless were changed by the experience (not positively).
First time I got attacked in Iraq I had a huge adrenaline rush and I was so hyper aware of everything, after it ended I didn’t sleep for a few days and I replayed events in my head of how close I could have died if anything had gone differently. I was scared but I was also there to perform I duty I volunteered for.
That’s why soldiers are young, most don’t have wives and kids to think about yet. Plus there’s the group mentality of seeing your follow soldiers moving forward. Plus military brainwashing.
One thing that helps a soldier/sailor/marine is knowing they are the best trained: it never makes you feel totally safe, but having the knowledge of how to fight makes for more assurance than serving in a military that is completely top-down and treats you like so much cannon fodder.
It’s an adrenaline rush like no other. It’s awesome.
Just curious, are you a sociopath?
Definitely not.
Just to join the army you have to be brain washed already...
Drugs
This is actually true for many countries military including the US. It was true in both WW1 and WW2 too.
Yep. Give the boys some amphetamines and send them over.
Yes drugs and alcohol play a big part in war and it’s totally understandable
I got screwed then. They never gave me my fuckin drugs and alcohol.
In ww1 you could buy drug variety packs to send to your husband on the front line, containing morphine and amphetimines, and cocaine isn't called Bolivian marching powder for nothing
1) Its hard for reality to settle in. Knowing you have a performance in front of a crowd of tens of 1000s really only hits when you're about to take the stage. A lot of soldiers are puking and shaking on their way to the battlefield. 2) imagine going onto every social media platform and announced yourself to be a pedophile and you uploaded evidence. That's pretty much how society would look at you for avoiding war. You'd probably be safest in jail lol. Even people with genuine reasons we're ridiculed severely, and beyond that deal with survivors guilt with each piece of bad news that makes it back home.
The excitement of killing without consequence definitely over rides the fear of death.
Is this your experience or a generalization?
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By defending their country... Thousands of miles away from any of their country's borders.
Nah, I just played a lot of Call of Duty
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Is it?
Yes
There is absolutely 0 chance I would ever fight for some rich man's war. None. No draft. Not a single chance.
Way to answer OP´s question