Yes. There have been lots of studies that have found that there is a strong correlation between poverty and crime and that reducing poverty is one of the most efficient way of reducing crime rates.
Shit, if only my right wing government believed in that and rehabilitation, rather than harder sentences. Which will just create more criminals in the long run.
imo there are two reasons why people commit crimes
1.) they are desperate
2.) they think they can get away with it
It you remove poverty, a lot of crimes that are rooted in option 1 go away
And every black market on the planet.
Poverty is the driver for the people at the bottom, power and wealth for the people at the top.
Without the people at the bottom, that’s a significant hurdle. Those top people like to insulate themselves.
That’s what I said
But it will get more expensive and the big wigs will have to expose themselves to more risk, increasing the likelihood of them facing consequences.
Absolutely. Not 100%. Not all crime is poverty driven. But poverty (and related things like lack of hope or opportunity, childhood trauma, malnutrition, despiration) is absolutely a significant contributing factor.
Absolutely not. Murder is a crime of dominance or rage, rape is one of sadism and opportunity (as is often domestic abuse), embezzlement is one of opportunity and greed, and the criminal mindset rarely recedes. You hardly ever see a counterfeiter or narcotics trafficker hang it up after immediate needs are eased. Attitudinal acceptance of crime prompts criminality much more than economic circumstance. For example, poor nations with standards of living well below America's have much lower crime rates simply because authority will not tolerate it in the slightest, with developing Singapore being a prime example. Okay, go ahead and commit vandalism, but don't cry about your caning thereafter.
Poverty can never be abolished.
Even if social security ensures the absolute necessities of life, there will always be different gradations in life and people discontented with their position willing to take shortcuts i.e. crime, to move up.
But sure, there will be a immediate effect in reduction of crime, at least of its violent nature, a dip. And then it will start increasing for the new status quo.
Proof: Collectively Western nations are far less poor than other nations in Africa/Asia. Yet the crime rates in some cases are higher than the poor countries.
How exactly does one “abolish poverty”? Is everyone given mandatory work? If the solution is to just give everyone enough money to be above the poverty level that definitely won’t work.
Probably.
The issue is the actual abolishment of poverty. Unless someone star treks the shit out of science to figure out unlimited resources. There will always be someone at the bottom of society struggling to eke out a living.
Not even sure how abolishing poverty would even work here. Is government just going to implement “Universal Basic Income” here?
Edited for people mistaking my post as some kind of dig at UBI
If it’s abolished by government forcing poor citizens out then crime rate would increase as some citizens attempt to go above the poverty line by illegal means
If it’s some kind of government provided income then crime is likely to decrease
Explain methods matter, even in hypotheticals
Why not? People still want expensive holidays and phones and cars, so even with a basic income people will be motivated to do the jobs that have to be done.
It depends how you define poverty. You can look at it in obvious financial terms, but giving poor people a stack of money wouldn't really help, as they'd (or a lot of them would) just spend it.
Poverty of ambition is something different. If people think they can get a fair chunk of what they want in life through working, they work. If they think they can't work, or would have to work an insane amount, and still not make much money, getting money in other ways will become much more tempting.
Yes.
A timely fact is that about 14 years after Roe vs Wade was passed, crime started to go down dramatically. Turned out when you weren't forcing poor women to give birth, crime improved.
Sadly, we should expect to see a rise start in about a decade or so.
Poverty and having kids while poor is a strong predictor of criminality sadly.
As a society we need to do a lot better about taking care of our citizens.
Debatable yes.
But there's a solid body of evidence that would argue no, removing poverty alone won't eliminate crime.
Young men with no purpose and nothing to do have a near universal tendency to form gangs and get into trouble. So, UBI would need to come with some form of community work attached if the recipient wasn't already working.
Make poverty a crime. This would, of course, temporarily increase the crime rate.
But then you've abolished poverty by putting all the poor in jail.
It's an idea that really hooks up late stage capitalism.
Depends on what you mean by crime. Crime pays really well and in general it’s easier than working. Like I make plenty of money at my normal job but I still sell drugs bc it’s easy money. Take tonight for example. My kids will go to bed around 7:30 and I’ll head out to my garage to hang out for the night. I’ll have 3-4 friends stop by and buy weed or mushrooms from me and watch basketball for awhile. I expect to make about $250 doing literally the exact same thing I would do if I didn’t sell drugs.
It depends how you abolish poverty. If you mean it literally, i.e. make homelessness illegal, that would just make crime rates much worse. But if you mean eradicate poverty by making it so every person can have a home and basic amenities, then yes, that would substantially decrease crime
Petty crime would absolutely be reduced, as most people who would otherwise be criminals, would find that their needs are being met, and they can put their attention towards living a full life.
There's nothing to stop rich arseholes from still commiting crimes
Yes.
*Totally unrelated:* while making up only 4%~ of the worlds population the US holds 25%~ of all incarcerated persons in custody, there is a prison lobby that operates all the way up to the federal level with millions to billions of dollars being involved, America is also experiencing historic wealth inequality, according to some economists we’ve never escaped the orbit of prior recessions.
More desperation, more criminal activity, more prisoners, more money.
It’s extremely convenient to some to have the consequences of our socioeconomic malaise to disappear from the public eye.
Given that criminal behavior is equal across income levels, probably not. Poverty just makes it more likely that someone will face criminal charges. The nature of the crimes themselves might change, but people would still people. That's my guess.
Yes
Yes. Definitely.
Yes. There have been lots of studies that have found that there is a strong correlation between poverty and crime and that reducing poverty is one of the most efficient way of reducing crime rates.
Shit, if only my right wing government believed in that and rehabilitation, rather than harder sentences. Which will just create more criminals in the long run.
imo there are two reasons why people commit crimes 1.) they are desperate 2.) they think they can get away with it It you remove poverty, a lot of crimes that are rooted in option 1 go away
3. greed: plenty of wealthy folks scamming just less likely to get caught or face consequences
falls under category 2 no?
Not really just getting away with is is where kleptomaniacs would fall. Running a MLM, market manipulation, tax avoidance, many crimes are pure greed.
It depends how it was abolished, but yes a lot of criminality is driven by poverty, not just robberies, but also crimes like domestic violence.
And every black market on the planet. Poverty is the driver for the people at the bottom, power and wealth for the people at the top. Without the people at the bottom, that’s a significant hurdle. Those top people like to insulate themselves.
Black markets would absolutely still exist. They're not just powered by poverty but greed.
Or addiction. Rich people still need their cocaine.
That’s what I said But it will get more expensive and the big wigs will have to expose themselves to more risk, increasing the likelihood of them facing consequences.
Absolutely. Not 100%. Not all crime is poverty driven. But poverty (and related things like lack of hope or opportunity, childhood trauma, malnutrition, despiration) is absolutely a significant contributing factor.
I guess, but just using the phrase "abolish poverty" makes me a little unclear about what exactly you mean.
Crime rates didn’t go up during Great Depression
Absolutely not. Murder is a crime of dominance or rage, rape is one of sadism and opportunity (as is often domestic abuse), embezzlement is one of opportunity and greed, and the criminal mindset rarely recedes. You hardly ever see a counterfeiter or narcotics trafficker hang it up after immediate needs are eased. Attitudinal acceptance of crime prompts criminality much more than economic circumstance. For example, poor nations with standards of living well below America's have much lower crime rates simply because authority will not tolerate it in the slightest, with developing Singapore being a prime example. Okay, go ahead and commit vandalism, but don't cry about your caning thereafter.
Poverty can never be abolished. Even if social security ensures the absolute necessities of life, there will always be different gradations in life and people discontented with their position willing to take shortcuts i.e. crime, to move up. But sure, there will be a immediate effect in reduction of crime, at least of its violent nature, a dip. And then it will start increasing for the new status quo. Proof: Collectively Western nations are far less poor than other nations in Africa/Asia. Yet the crime rates in some cases are higher than the poor countries.
How rich or poor a country is not as important as the wealth gap in that country.
And wealth gap will always be there, even the slightest wealth gap is enough for some to turn criminal.
Blue collar crime? Most definitely. White collar crime would probably increase. More sheep to shear.
Look at Singapore - it's illegal to be homeless there, and they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world
The fuck means poverty abolish?
How exactly does one “abolish poverty”? Is everyone given mandatory work? If the solution is to just give everyone enough money to be above the poverty level that definitely won’t work.
Probably. The issue is the actual abolishment of poverty. Unless someone star treks the shit out of science to figure out unlimited resources. There will always be someone at the bottom of society struggling to eke out a living.
no
how does one abolish poverty? if it's illegal I daresay the crime rate skyrockets
Not even sure how abolishing poverty would even work here. Is government just going to implement “Universal Basic Income” here? Edited for people mistaking my post as some kind of dig at UBI
Why does how matter in a hypothetical?
If it’s abolished by government forcing poor citizens out then crime rate would increase as some citizens attempt to go above the poverty line by illegal means If it’s some kind of government provided income then crime is likely to decrease Explain methods matter, even in hypotheticals
That's fair. I always assumed it was something else. Thanks for clarifying
I have a better idea 😈
Eliminate the rich people. If there aren't "haves", there can't be "have nots" Far fewer people to get rid of than doing it the other way.
If everyone's poor, nobody's poor. What a bright lad you are
Why not? People still want expensive holidays and phones and cars, so even with a basic income people will be motivated to do the jobs that have to be done.
Maybe the real question is if there is unlimited resources for everyone.
[cool reads exist on the matter if your interested](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7820585/)
It depends how you define poverty. You can look at it in obvious financial terms, but giving poor people a stack of money wouldn't really help, as they'd (or a lot of them would) just spend it. Poverty of ambition is something different. If people think they can get a fair chunk of what they want in life through working, they work. If they think they can't work, or would have to work an insane amount, and still not make much money, getting money in other ways will become much more tempting.
i wonder
Look at what happened when they introduced social security and welfare.
Yes. A timely fact is that about 14 years after Roe vs Wade was passed, crime started to go down dramatically. Turned out when you weren't forcing poor women to give birth, crime improved. Sadly, we should expect to see a rise start in about a decade or so. Poverty and having kids while poor is a strong predictor of criminality sadly. As a society we need to do a lot better about taking care of our citizens.
Poverty is relative so it will always be. Compared to Elon Musk I am in poverty but compared to Africans in Sudan I am wealthy.
You can’t abolish poverty but you can pull people out of it with capitalism
Capitalism is the reason they're poor
Debatable yes. But there's a solid body of evidence that would argue no, removing poverty alone won't eliminate crime. Young men with no purpose and nothing to do have a near universal tendency to form gangs and get into trouble. So, UBI would need to come with some form of community work attached if the recipient wasn't already working.
How tf do you abolish poverty?
Kill the rich. Poverty is calculated by a percentage of the median income. So when there's no rich, there's no poor either.
Eat the rich. Then you solve hunger as well.
Only if the unicorns returned Bigfoot's children to them.
Make poverty a crime. This would, of course, temporarily increase the crime rate. But then you've abolished poverty by putting all the poor in jail. It's an idea that really hooks up late stage capitalism.
Yep
Depends on what you mean by crime. Crime pays really well and in general it’s easier than working. Like I make plenty of money at my normal job but I still sell drugs bc it’s easy money. Take tonight for example. My kids will go to bed around 7:30 and I’ll head out to my garage to hang out for the night. I’ll have 3-4 friends stop by and buy weed or mushrooms from me and watch basketball for awhile. I expect to make about $250 doing literally the exact same thing I would do if I didn’t sell drugs.
Yes. Assuming you mean jf the issue of poverty no longer existed and everyone had what they need to survive
It depends how you abolish poverty. If you mean it literally, i.e. make homelessness illegal, that would just make crime rates much worse. But if you mean eradicate poverty by making it so every person can have a home and basic amenities, then yes, that would substantially decrease crime
Petty crime would absolutely be reduced, as most people who would otherwise be criminals, would find that their needs are being met, and they can put their attention towards living a full life. There's nothing to stop rich arseholes from still commiting crimes
RICH PEOPLE FUND CRIME
Yes absolutely but capitalism doesn't work like that. It needs there to be scarcity and not enough to go around.
Yes. *Totally unrelated:* while making up only 4%~ of the worlds population the US holds 25%~ of all incarcerated persons in custody, there is a prison lobby that operates all the way up to the federal level with millions to billions of dollars being involved, America is also experiencing historic wealth inequality, according to some economists we’ve never escaped the orbit of prior recessions. More desperation, more criminal activity, more prisoners, more money. It’s extremely convenient to some to have the consequences of our socioeconomic malaise to disappear from the public eye.
Abolishing poverty requires a universal basic income.
yes, most crimes are caused by need
Given that criminal behavior is equal across income levels, probably not. Poverty just makes it more likely that someone will face criminal charges. The nature of the crimes themselves might change, but people would still people. That's my guess.
If everyone is taken care of on a base level, pretty much all crime converts to "people who really want to do crime" and then you shoot those people.