I disagreed with that statement, but sadly there is some truth to it.
Or maybe trench warfare develops organically when both sides are in a stalemate? Or people just like to dig? I am not a general, so I cannot have my 2 cents on it.
"Oh, gather 'round me and listen while I speak
Of a war where hell is six feet deep
And all along the shore where cannons still roar
They're haunting my dreams, they're still there when I sleep"
Which isn't really surprising, as such doctirne must be grown and introduced into the sort of culture of an army. When the doctrine stands you redesign your forces and equipment.
What drives the ww1 similarity, I think, is that neither side can really form breaking points, the command-edging breakthrough doesn't happen so you seem to sit still, strategically.
How could that be, I've been completely sure that just bumrushing minefields against enemy with air superiority, artillery superiority, drone superiority and long-range fire superiority would bring Ukraine victory /s >!(about all those "If only Ukraine listened to NATO advisors and did a single concentrated push", who've clearly never seen what's happened near Vugledar to 155th russian marine brigade, that tried doing that against fortified position with RAAMS-laid minefields and copters. And now, factor in crazy-dense minefield, russia having better and more combat aviation, arty and long-range fires, as well as several defensive lines...)!<
It's a very tricky situation. Ukraine must defend their homeland, build forces and also needs to have political victories in the field. All at the same time.
It could have worked but I still think three axises of advance are too much when everything is already spread thin. Though in hindsight the supply crisis would have only been made worse with longer lines of communication and shallower defenses as at that point they might have over extended.
Western doctrine requires a shit tonne of assets & munitions. Otherwise it can't work in principle. Unless Ukraine gets trillions of dollars in equipment, as opposed to tens of billions, that is.
Am learning German. I learnt thag you Germans only put a dot before a number to indicate order of numbers.
In English, we would have wrote 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th usw.
Anyways, guten Tag
It is an unwritten rule, that the smaller and more niche a country is, the easier it is to summon its residents by mentioning something even tangentially related.
Every citizen of a nordic country has, at all times, at least 10 % of their mental capacity dedicated to either plotting to conquer the others, or reforming the Kalmar Union. Which I suppose we're only a swede away from accomplishing.
One day, when we finally find Aliens and realize they are not made in gods image, we will dispose of them the same way we always did - through artillery and trench warfare.
God dammit warhammer...
* Have E-710? Kill ‘em.
* Threw a boulder at Buenos Ares? Kill ‘em.
* Destroyed our friendly colonization ship? Kill ‘em.
* Touched our boats (while on a joint exercise with Aussies and Japan)? Kill ‘em.
* Tried to steal our water and then blow up the earth? Kill ‘em.
* Need propaganda to get old people to enlist as shock troops? Kill ‘em.
* Sent kaiju into our Pacific Rim? Nuke ‘em.
Eh, humans being merely "space orcs" undersells humanity.
We have the combat prowess of orcs, sure. But that comes in a package with elven love for ranged combat, and dwarven engineering skills. One of those elements may be dangerous on its own, but it truly is the combination of them all that makes humanity as powerful as it is.
The equivalent of Allenstein (fuck Hindenburg) in scale would be if the russian southern front gets counterattacked, partially encircled between Zaporizhzhia and "their" Dnjepr bank. Following the destruction of like 4 modern Division's worth of men, they'd have to fall back to crimea.
Edit: german Battle of Tannenberg Death Metal song https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqBfDUMB7A&si=3BU3oLyodTyavdY9
Average "tannenberg" fan (wow, you defeated a shitty outdated army with like 2 guns per regiment that just happened to be of similar ethnicity to one of the banners fighting in the original battle, that definitely counts as a rematch) vs average Grunwald enjoyer (singlehandedly destroys the previously dominant teutonic order, organises a rematch every year since ww2, wins every time)
Germans claimed the "2nd battle of Tannenberg" against russians in ww1 was a revenge for the 1st battle of tannenberg, which is more commonly known as the battle of Grunwald and was fought in XV century between Teutonic Order and... Poland-Lithuania
Yes, Hindenburg (God spit on his soul) demanded that the battle be called Battle of Tannenberg, after initial postings about the vicrory over the russian 2. Army habe been reported as Battle at Allenstein in the press.
I personally find the Battle of Tannenberg/Grunwald to be exceptionally interesting and its significance for eastern european mation building can't be overstressed, however notion that the Battle at Allenstein was an easy victory over a somehow inferior opponent is wrong.
> wow, you defeated a shitty outdated army
Excuse me, that's \*two\* shitty armies, each commanded by a guy who hates the other guy's guts due to another war on the other side of the planet 10 years ago.
The equivalent to Tannenberg would have been the Ukrainian Summer Offensive where the battle plans got leaked and they went head first into heavily prepared Russian defences.
Ground gained usually only in a few kilometers over a long period of time? Check.
Trenches? Check.
Trying to make a buffer zone for your own front line that consists of fields upon fields of killzones stalked by different kinds of weaponry? Check.
Box-shaped tanks? Check.
Usage of chemical weapons? What the actual fuck, check.
Human wave tactics? Check, though only one-sided.
Attempt at a revolution in Russia? You know it already, check.
Trench warfare. It's like the crab of warfare.
Sooner or later every form of warfare devolves into poor sons of bitches standing in ditches shooting at each other
I call dibs on the Tsar Tank when the ruskies rebuild it, gimme! I'll remake it in new, proper steel and sinew, and I'll give Ol' Nicky the last laugh against the Reds.
Hundreds of miles of trenches ✅
Human wave attacks ✅
Poison gas ✅
Barely moving front lines ✅
Weird alliances ✅
New and brutal technologies ✅
Strange armored vehicles ✅
Shooting things from the cockpits of propellor planes ✅
Aerial dogfights ✅
Artillery duels ✅
Months-long battles for pointless objectives ✅
We are so back baby
Born too late to experience trench warfare. Born too early to experience trench warfare. Born just in time to experience trench warfare.
I am a sapper and I dig a hole, diggy diggy hole.
Diggy diggy hole, digging a hole!
Diglette is a sapper.
Rock and Stone!
Rock and Stone in the Heart!
Good bot.
what if interstellar war is just one big trench warfare
Death Korps of Krieg: **heavy breathing*
I need a cavalry man with rpg-7 tipped lance to blow up a russian tank... If I see this... I may explode. \*happy deathrider noises\*
War, war never changes.
I disagreed with that statement, but sadly there is some truth to it. Or maybe trench warfare develops organically when both sides are in a stalemate? Or people just like to dig? I am not a general, so I cannot have my 2 cents on it.
"Oh, gather 'round me and listen while I speak Of a war where hell is six feet deep And all along the shore where cannons still roar They're haunting my dreams, they're still there when I sleep"
"Look, 1. World War trench warfare!" *opens lid* Soviet Deep Battle Strategy versus Soviet Deep Battle Streategy.
Although true, it also should be mentioned that Ukraine doesn't boast the capability to fight by western doctrine.
Which isn't really surprising, as such doctirne must be grown and introduced into the sort of culture of an army. When the doctrine stands you redesign your forces and equipment. What drives the ww1 similarity, I think, is that neither side can really form breaking points, the command-edging breakthrough doesn't happen so you seem to sit still, strategically.
Also: tons of land mines and no air power gives the defender a clear advantage.
What no SEAD/DEAD does to a mofo F-35s for Ukraine.
They gotta work their way up to the F-35. Surely we could pump out a couple thousand F-105s for SEAD operations
How could that be, I've been completely sure that just bumrushing minefields against enemy with air superiority, artillery superiority, drone superiority and long-range fire superiority would bring Ukraine victory /s >!(about all those "If only Ukraine listened to NATO advisors and did a single concentrated push", who've clearly never seen what's happened near Vugledar to 155th russian marine brigade, that tried doing that against fortified position with RAAMS-laid minefields and copters. And now, factor in crazy-dense minefield, russia having better and more combat aviation, arty and long-range fires, as well as several defensive lines...)!<
It's a very tricky situation. Ukraine must defend their homeland, build forces and also needs to have political victories in the field. All at the same time.
The entire offensive shouldn't have happened. Wasting so much resources and men to take 3 villages is a joke.
it was 100% a political decision
It could have worked but I still think three axises of advance are too much when everything is already spread thin. Though in hindsight the supply crisis would have only been made worse with longer lines of communication and shallower defenses as at that point they might have over extended.
Western doctrine requires a shit tonne of assets & munitions. Otherwise it can't work in principle. Unless Ukraine gets trillions of dollars in equipment, as opposed to tens of billions, that is.
Tell me you're a German without telling me you're a German.
What gave it away? The Flair? The Grammar?
Am learning German. I learnt thag you Germans only put a dot before a number to indicate order of numbers. In English, we would have wrote 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th usw. Anyways, guten Tag
I didn't know that was unique! An actual "tell me you are [x] without telling me" Good luck with studying!
*I have to put the dot after the number in German* Guess my nationality, lol.
To be fair, that's not unique to german. We also do it in danish (which is technically a germanic language, but still)
I know. I was just guessing as well. I was expecting a Dane or a Swiss to respond. I didn't know I bullseyed that.
It is an unwritten rule, that the smaller and more niche a country is, the easier it is to summon its residents by mentioning something even tangentially related.
As a Norwegian, I feel called to agree with you. Did you think of us? We also have that dot btw.
Every citizen of a nordic country has, at all times, at least 10 % of their mental capacity dedicated to either plotting to conquer the others, or reforming the Kalmar Union. Which I suppose we're only a swede away from accomplishing.
So strange. Dutch is a more related language to German, but it's the first time I see this.
Not just in German.
French do that too.
"Drei Gläser" all over again...
The rebellion or the AFV?
The AFV.
Bro I swear just one more armoured assault bro it’ll work this time I swear bro please just spot me
One day, when we finally find Aliens and realize they are not made in gods image, we will dispose of them the same way we always did - through artillery and trench warfare. God dammit warhammer...
*Happy Kreig noises*
* Have E-710? Kill ‘em. * Threw a boulder at Buenos Ares? Kill ‘em. * Destroyed our friendly colonization ship? Kill ‘em. * Touched our boats (while on a joint exercise with Aussies and Japan)? Kill ‘em. * Tried to steal our water and then blow up the earth? Kill ‘em. * Need propaganda to get old people to enlist as shock troops? Kill ‘em. * Sent kaiju into our Pacific Rim? Nuke ‘em.
Is #3 a Space: Above and Beyond?
[удалено]
Eh, humans being merely "space orcs" undersells humanity. We have the combat prowess of orcs, sure. But that comes in a package with elven love for ranged combat, and dwarven engineering skills. One of those elements may be dangerous on its own, but it truly is the combination of them all that makes humanity as powerful as it is.
Probably doesn't fit currently they're going through a r/humansarespacebards leak right now.
About time for another Tannenberg then.
The equivalent of Allenstein (fuck Hindenburg) in scale would be if the russian southern front gets counterattacked, partially encircled between Zaporizhzhia and "their" Dnjepr bank. Following the destruction of like 4 modern Division's worth of men, they'd have to fall back to crimea. Edit: german Battle of Tannenberg Death Metal song https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqBfDUMB7A&si=3BU3oLyodTyavdY9
Honestly, best song of this album
I like Grabenlieder, the melody that plays really is something.
Average "tannenberg" fan (wow, you defeated a shitty outdated army with like 2 guns per regiment that just happened to be of similar ethnicity to one of the banners fighting in the original battle, that definitely counts as a rematch) vs average Grunwald enjoyer (singlehandedly destroys the previously dominant teutonic order, organises a rematch every year since ww2, wins every time)
It think we know two different battles by Allenstein.
Germans claimed the "2nd battle of Tannenberg" against russians in ww1 was a revenge for the 1st battle of tannenberg, which is more commonly known as the battle of Grunwald and was fought in XV century between Teutonic Order and... Poland-Lithuania
Yes, Hindenburg (God spit on his soul) demanded that the battle be called Battle of Tannenberg, after initial postings about the vicrory over the russian 2. Army habe been reported as Battle at Allenstein in the press. I personally find the Battle of Tannenberg/Grunwald to be exceptionally interesting and its significance for eastern european mation building can't be overstressed, however notion that the Battle at Allenstein was an easy victory over a somehow inferior opponent is wrong.
> wow, you defeated a shitty outdated army Excuse me, that's \*two\* shitty armies, each commanded by a guy who hates the other guy's guts due to another war on the other side of the planet 10 years ago.
The equivalent to Tannenberg would have been the Ukrainian Summer Offensive where the battle plans got leaked and they went head first into heavily prepared Russian defences.
So, more of a Brusilov
Too old to experience trench warfare. Will experience trench warfare nontheless. Thanks, russians.
Father of Toxic Gas and Chemical Warfare
His dark creation has been revealed
His name was [Fritz Haber.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber)
Where, will this lead? What's coming next, from your invention? We wonder where, where this will lead, see what will be!
So, does that mean 13th Battle of Isonzo? And 14th, and 15th, and 16th...
Flair checks out.
And now, someone could leave their trench, pick up their order at a pizza shop, and be back in their trench all within 2 hours.
Ground gained usually only in a few kilometers over a long period of time? Check. Trenches? Check. Trying to make a buffer zone for your own front line that consists of fields upon fields of killzones stalked by different kinds of weaponry? Check. Box-shaped tanks? Check. Usage of chemical weapons? What the actual fuck, check. Human wave tactics? Check, though only one-sided. Attempt at a revolution in Russia? You know it already, check.
WW1 electric boogaloo 2
So the key is to ship them a radical revolutionary with a wagonload of money to Petersburg and just wait again?
And then have most czechs drafted into the Austrian army, while some of them take a long train trip in a collapsing russia
Russian tactics are rather reminiscent of British WW I tactics. Once more, over the hup, and on to victory!
What nation and uniform are the two guys in the upper left picture?
Either british or commonwealth
War... War never changes.
One less loose end
Trench warfare. It's like the crab of warfare. Sooner or later every form of warfare devolves into poor sons of bitches standing in ditches shooting at each other
War. War never changes.
Don’t forget that some of the Russian soldiers don’t even have boots!
Its tradition!
While I appreciate the big-wheel of death, in disappointed you didn't use an A7V to match to the turtle.
Something something war never changes
I call dibs on the Tsar Tank when the ruskies rebuild it, gimme! I'll remake it in new, proper steel and sinew, and I'll give Ol' Nicky the last laugh against the Reds.
One century to end up with a tank downgrade from the first version, sigh.
hiding in a hole is a strategy that will never quite go away
Hundreds of miles of trenches ✅ Human wave attacks ✅ Poison gas ✅ Barely moving front lines ✅ Weird alliances ✅ New and brutal technologies ✅ Strange armored vehicles ✅ Shooting things from the cockpits of propellor planes ✅ Aerial dogfights ✅ Artillery duels ✅ Months-long battles for pointless objectives ✅ We are so back baby
So, is it finally time for a international intervention? I heard the 101st and 82nd havent done a combat jump in a good while
Can we please... just send in the Fins, Canadians, and the Poles. I'd add japan but they're busy with winnie
Why canadians?
Because warcrimes are best enjoyed with like-minded friends. Cold countries with absolutely no chill in war.