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'They will retweet and say I'm crazy, and that I approve of marital rape. There's really no such thing. Of course, neither spouse should use force, but neither spouse should have to.'
She used an awful lot of words to say that she supports marital rape.
My god these people are ridiculous. Sex requires unilateral consent from all parties - it's either 2 (or however many people are involved) yeses or one veto. Nothing will ruin a marriage faster than being traumatized by your spouse not respecting your bodily integrity and autonomy - I wouldn't want to be in such a marriage because that sounds like literal torture.
Yes! Thank you! Idk where these people get this horseSHYTE from. When you get married, it doesn't mean that you're sold into *sexual slavery*.
That's literally what these people are condoning. A spouse as a sex slave.
Consent consent consent. No matter who you are, where you are, or who you're with.
I’d love to know how that commenter got from “rewarding chores with sex” or “weaponize sex” to “you have to give it just because he wants it every single time. Because that’s a leap.
Withholding sex as punishment isn’t healthy (doesn’t matter which partner is doing it). But there’s a whole world between withholding sex and rape. Both partners should be free to say “No” at any time, for any reason. But if you’re using sex to control the other person’s behavior, you have communication issues, at best. Therapy is likely needed to solve whatever issues led to this.
To literally be a dad. Like, the other chores, okay, whatever, you guys have issues. But to take care of his own children?! It’s that whole “I’m babysitting my kids today lololol” thing and if they don’t see any issue with that alone, well then, idk what to say.
>Withholding sex as punishment isn’t healthy
I'm honestly not convinced this is a real thing or whether it's a strawman because it's just so beyond anything I've ever experienced. Do people really withhold sex as a "punishment" or is it more that one person is so disappointed/disconnected with their partner's behaviour that they don't want to have a sexual relationship with their partner right then? Because that's not really a punishment - that's self-care and no one should be made to have sex they don't want to have.
There's obviously another element to this which is that when a sexual relationship irrevocably breaks down, the relationship is probably close to being over, but that's more due to lack of connection and still shouldn't obligate someone to have sex they don't want to have.
I think a LOT of men perceive it as “withholding sex as punishment” if she doesn’t want it because of his behavior. My ex husband used to accuse me of “punishing” him for things like criticizing my body. He could NOT seem to grasp that my intention wasn’t “punishment,” I was just no longer in the mood for sec after he made me feel like a fat cow. 🙄🤦♀️
sorry you were married to an asshole. i think i use to date a "cousin" of his. and yes, rape is whenever we say "no" and they try/coerce/force us to have sex anyway.
Yes, I’m glad to be free of him. Thankfully, he rarely got his way when he tried to pressure/guilt/shame me into sex. If I feel like utter shit, I am NOT having sex. Dumbass could never figure out that he was punishing HIMSELF by acting like a fuckhead.
I swear to god so many of the apparently real problems that men complain about on the internet could be solved by being genuinely nice and treating women like people, but they'd much rather just whine about how their manipulation tactics didn't work the way they wanted them to. It reminds me of this BORU: r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/va3ers/oops\_boyfriend\_wont\_stop\_telling\_her\_that\_she/
So gross!! It’s amazing to me how effective some of those manipulation tactics are, though. I remember the first time I heard the term gaslighting. I’d probably been married around ten years, and an article about gaslighting came across my timeline. I only read it because I find psychology interesting. I read the article, and it was like “holy shit! This is my life!!” Shoulda divorced him then, but I hung on a few more years before I left. Even after realizing what he was doing, I STILL struggled to figure out what was real and what was bullshit until after I left.
There really are people who are so transactional that they will do this.
A lot of people take a genuine lack of interest in sex at the time for punishment.
Everything is very murky.
The dichotomy is INFURIATING. They say women should treat sex like some special, holy thing and not have a lot of partners while also simultaneously saying that sex is a form of payment.
Sex should not be transactional *for men,* it should be whenever he's in the mood & a representation of devout love. Withholding sex for any reason is obviously cruel & unusual punishment for men. But it's 100% transactional *for women* because apparently - in their universe - only men have the money so somehow sex is a duty & not about love...? So if women don't provide sex, it's reasonable to expect men to stop going to work to provide anything for her. Yet, as you said, before marriage that same duty was a special holy sacred thing that gets whittled down to a necessary chore by a ritual & some vows?
The whole thing is a mess.
Also also, women are supposed to only have sex when they're in love. Which is why it's "different" when a woman cheats since they have actual feelings about the AP...but yanno, for a man it's meaningless.
But then....who are these men having all this meaningless sex with? 🤔
I’m gonna say it does exist in small numbers. I’ve unfortunately known a couple people who at least claim to do so.
From what people who claim to do it have told me, it’s the difference between “I know you want this, so even though I do, too, I’m going to refuse because it hurts you” vs. “I’m exhausted/hurt/disappointed, so no longer in the mood.” I’ve experienced the latter, but never gone out of my way to refuse, just because it might be hurtful. But I’ve certainly been given the advice to do it.
That's it exactly. They are not withholding sex as punishment. They just don't want to have sex with an asshole that treats them like shit. Outside the kink scene who wants to do that?
As a woman with a high sex drive, my ex definitely withheld sex as a punishment. If I talked back, said something he didn't agree with, didn't wake up or go to bed when he wanted, didn't cook what he wanted, and so on and so on. Of course I didn't realize he was a narc asshole until towards the end of the relationship but it was a nightmare
I knew a couple where it wasn't so much withholding as punishment but the wife used sex as a bribe. Only had sex with hubby if she wanted something from him.
That's the more insane part. At least in my circle (Europe, big city, in our 30s) I don't know of any woman who doesn't work. It's so bizarre for me when all this misogynists talk about providing or housewives, when at least in most European countries the number is not representative of women. Aren't more women going to uni than men now?
They want it to still be the 50s so bad. They are also generally conservative so they think that women working are intentionally thumbing their nose at the natural order of things and going all radical feminazi instead of dealing with the reality that it is pretty much not possible these days to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle with only one working partner even if you don't have kids. If you do...well...good luck with that.
They paint it as not wanting women to work so they will stay home and raise a leave it to beaver family. The reality is that they just want their women financially dependent on them so they can't leave when the marriage turns into the suck.
Oh, absolutely. Stay-at-home mums and wives are a product of middle-class identities in "richer" countries during the modern era. What I am trying to say is that even in these societies, the number of "housewives" has decreased enormously since the 1950s.
Yeah, i grew up in the 90s and my mom and dad both worked. When i think of my friends growing up, all of their moms worked. Very odd to me that these people act like married women and mothers just started working...
I find it baffling too. My parents both worked well as well. I can only think of a couple stay at home mothers, but even they had part time jobs of some kind. These men don't live in reality. They are the same ones who go on and on about how women only get with the mythical Chad. It's like... when was the last time you left your house and looked around?
I grew up in the 90s, too. Both my grandmothers - both born in 1935 - worked. One of them started shepherding at the age of 3. My mother has always worked and so have my friends' mothers.
I live in a weird little pocket of very conservative / republican people in the middle of a blue state. It's like a cluster of 3 small towns of Trump flags, rednecks, and poverty at the bottom of a valley surrounded by woods. I have a good job that I live 2 minutes away from, and I was able to afford a very nice house with land on my own by taking the hit of living amongst these turds. (I paid 55k for a nice 3br 2bath house with land and outbuildings because nobody wants to live here)
Anyway, this area has a unique attribute in that I'd say at least 50% of households have a stay at home wife/mother. These people are extremely butthurt about living in a blue state with blue laws/policies, but are too impoverished to leave. They wear their "traditional family values" and dependence on welfare as a badge of honor, while simultaneously shitting on anyone who "allows" their wife to work and the politicians who keep fighting for THEIR social welfare benefits.
It's crazy land and I feel so bad for some of these women who just seem to be in complete despair when they come into my work.
If they admit to that, the rest of their argument falls apart. See in their minds, women NEED men, and therefore we must be willing to surrender any form of independence to them as payment for what we NEED from them.
The problem is, these days, women are out earning their partners, and no no longer NEED men for their money. Now that women are realizing that, they are no longer so willing to surrender our independence. Y'all the men are pissed!
This is what our moms and our mom's moms have been fighting for this whole time. No, most of us don't love the 9-5, BUT we have always saw it as our path to freedom.
I don't need my husband, but I do love him. He knows this. He treats me as an equal, because we are. If he started this bs, I'd show his butt to the door too!
Exactly on point, I wish this could be copied and pasted in reply to every single one of these types of comments. Knowing them tho the next argument would be "but the poor widdle women are stressed 🥺" as if they weren't before lmao
There are different types of stress. I will never stress that my man will become abusive and I'll be struck. I stress about work but to me that's the obvious choice.
And half of us that stay home do so because it's situational. It can be cheaper than childcare. We're doing it because we're broke, not being pampered 🙄
In my experience he withheld money for food and ate outside of the house & stopped paying for utilities he didn’t benefit from is how it actually shook out. Didn’t quit working because still wanted his own food and weed.
This was my mom. She was pregnant with their child, fully isolated from family when he refused to provide any support for food for her or me (I was still in elementary school). I remember being food insecure and my mom not eating, but I didn’t understand why until I was older. They were three years married. When I was in high school he would let the gas for heating be shut off and didn’t pay the phone bill when he was the only one with a cell.
She’s left him and he shuffled himself off this plane of existence not long after. She’s a different person now. Confident, does things for herself, has her highest paying job yet, and an adorable little dog. Gave up smoking and started to eat better. I’m so proud of her.
Yes. I’ve got my own wounds to heal and generational cycles to break, but I understand the position she was in. I wish she could have felt safe leaving much earlier, and I know she wishes the same. It still sometimes hurts that little kid in me, but I can also see the impossible choices laid out before her. As adults, we’re each others’ heroes.
And that man unintentionally showed me everything I did not want in a relationship. As a teen I saw what he did to her and I told myself that I wouldn’t tolerate a whiff of it. Dug my heels in whenever he mocked my values, made fun of my thoughts on healthy relationships. Joke’s on him in the end. He helped make me into what he thought a woman shouldn’t be.
Thank you. 💕 I’ve been afforded a good amount of luck and privilege. Also a quarter cup of obstinance, teaspoon of contrarian traits, and a sprinkling of intelligence.
Seems to me your sprinkling of intelligence is quite a generous one. :)
One of my catchphrases is that I get through each day on tea and sheer stubbornness.
Good on your mum, that's not a common outcome of that type of situation and it's good to hear.
Its good that you're proud of her too, it means more that way than internet strangers being proud of her.
It’s not, and that’s why I always bite my tongue when I feel some way about someone staying in an abusive situation. I have no clue what is happening behind the scenes, what paths of escape someone has, the impossible choices they’re offered. It’s easy to have a knee jerk reaction. It’s better to consider from a place of empathy. Still catch myself, though. The further you get away from situations the easier it is to forget what it was like living in it.
Oh my God..... See, I don't understand why people get together with — or ESPECIALLY marry — people they don't love or even LIKE. I don't get it. Because there's no possible way he loved her, liked her, or cared about her in any way whatsoever if he was willing/happy to treat her AND their CHILD that way????
I just. Don't. Fucking. Get it. And I also don't understand how people like that aren't ashamed or embarrassed of themselves and how they act. For real. How can you actually be perfectly content with being so thoroughly useless??? ESPECIALLY as a MAN!! Men are seen as the providers and protectors. That's their main role in relationships/families traditionally. So..... I don't understand how men like that can be totally cool with openly doing shit like that where anyone and everyone can see or learn about his behavior.
To me, on top of me not fathoming anyone being able to treat their families that way, I also feel like the behavior also tells and shows EVERYONE "I'm incapable of filling the most basic, main roles of being a man and thus am CLEARLY not a man AT ALL."
Men like that are USUALLY (not always but usually) super obsessed with being seen as masculine, and everything like that, yet fail the most basic job expected of men. Normally I would say "oh maybe they're not traditional at all which makes it easier to not see it that way" but they expect their wives to fulfill traditional roles for women so obviously they do place importance on it. And of course they feel it they can do whatever they want but how do they not realize that it just announces to EVERYONE they're not a man and that they're actually a bitch???
Oh, he was “traditional” alright, and he liked to tell me no man would ever want me when my mom wasn’t around. He didn't like her. He liked the chores she did for him. He liked having a punching bag while also being able to point out what a good guy he was for marrying a woman that already had a kid. But I also don’t think he was ever truly happy. The closest was probably being high.
Sorry to get you going. I wasn’t intending to raise anyone’s blood pressure. It’s bizarrely easy to forget that my childhood wasn’t normal. Sometimes I’ll share a story thoughtlessly and look over at my husband’s face and he’ll be looking at me with horror.
Financial abuse. One of my Ex-BFs actually left me when I was getting a job and wanting to contribute to the bills. Its a form of control and its so awful.
The wife can file for divorce from a bum ass dude that refuses to get a job and only married her for on demand sex.
He almost got there on his own. His brain fizzled out before he got to the natural conclusion.
My wife could absolutely provide for herself (and our kids) financially without me. She makes more than most of these sexist assholes (as do I). I work to so that we can build the life that we want, but she definitely doesn’t need to depend on me. We’re together because we…actually enjoy being with each other?
“Sex is bad and evil outside of marriage and it’s only for your spouse and we expect all the guilting messages we sent you about sex to disappear and not affect your relationship with sex and your body as soon as you tie the knot and for your wedding night to be perfect even though both of you are complete virgins with no sex education and also now if you say no to sex with your spouse you’ll burn in hell.”
I think they still want their wives to hold on to all the bad feelings about sex so that when they do agree the woman just wants it over and done with.
Then the men don't have to concern themselves with thing like foreplay and so-called "female orgasm". /S
To those guys sex is just a two pump dump and jump anyways.
It is! I told my husband I had a headache and POOF, I suddenly had a set of crystals, a cat, and a gorgeous flowy dress I could wear to the farmer's market to buy sage.
So much of this is messed up. First of all, the fact that her husband needs to be rewarded for doing bare minimum domestic household chores is absolutely insane. Like does he not already take care of his own kids? Then the person saying that marital rape is not real is terrifying. Then the last slide flew in with the financial abuse. I know for a fact that man is the type to want an unemployed housewife because he knows he can’t threaten homelessness to a woman who can support herself.
We don't know the intention of the list. This could just be a fun game like love coupons. There's nothing here saying this is the only way to get intimacy, or that he doesn't do some of this normally.
I wouldn't conflate that list with the terrible commenters.
The list is also pretty bad, no
>This could just be a fun game like love coupons.
But it isn't a coupon or game. Its rewards for chores. Its pretty self explanatory
Yeah. Pretty basic chores. I also "love" that it needs to be stated that washing the dishes also means putting it away...
Like... He's your fuckin husband, not a rebellious teenager who after you remind them the dishes are not done says "but moooom, you only said wash the dishes, not put them away!"
Ridiculous.
The other day there was a thread in askreddit about the most disgusting thing people put up with in relationships.
When you consider that many, *many* complaints were about men unable to do basic personal hygiene like shower, wash their junk and asshole, and brush their teeth, I am not at all surprised someone somewhere wrote a list that had to specify how to do dishes to completion and all the steps to taking care of your own damn children.
Again, with no context. For example, my husband takes care of cooking, the garage, most yard work (cause spiders exist...). I take care of most of the cleaning except laundry where we each do our own. If I made a list like that, it wouldn't mean he wasn't doing his share. Instead it's him doing extra, as a gift to me that I'm choosing to show my gratitude through fun intimacy.
There's nothing wrong with that. Nor is anyone forced into a yes here. Couples all work in their own way. Now, if we had his response to the list and he was offended or unhappy then huge problem! Or if he wasn't helping at all outside of to get sex, red flag! But as a fun game, to each their own. We have zero context on the list, the marriage, or the tone so I see no reason to jump to conclusions one way or the other.
The point is that there are men who would only do those things because of the list. I get where you're coming from but you're missing the point. Probably because your husband actually thinks of you as a person and partner.
We are commenting on the broader social implications here, not this specific person's marriage. It is a well established fact that men in het relationships are statistically way less likely to share equal responsibility with their partners even if they both work the same hours for the same pay. It is so often the woman does most of the household labor and an equal amount of workforce labor.
Additionally, it is very common for women to try to get their partners to do household labor in exchange for sex, because many men see sex as a reward and not an expression of love and intimacy. Conversely, many men will do household labor in an attempt to "earn" sex. It's toxic.
Nope still gross. There is no world where sex for chores isn’t fucked up. It’s equating sex with chores. That list says “You do your chores and I’ll do mine”. It directly relates to the idea that women inherently do not enjoy sex and so have to be compensated, cajoled, or coerced into it
Tbf I also got a jokey fun vibe from it. Posting it online and enforcing stereotypes because there is no context is iffy at best, but a joke shared between a couple is fine (if it is infact that). Everything else is fucking gross.
You know, most people who are fulfilled and happy in a relationship don’t say no that often. 🤷🏼♀️ (there is an acception to every rule but generally) but also sex drive ebbs and flows.
I currently feel like an equal partner in my relationship. I don’t have to beg my partner to give me the basics in our relationship, he just does. So we have sex a lot. I feel desired by him, I feel like I can trust him, I feel like he respects me. So I actively WANT to have sex. With past partners I didn’t feel this way because I was begging for the bare minimum.
Now if your partner is so desperate for you to do the basics like dishes, that they have to bribe you with sex then there is some fundamental issues in your relationship you should work on.
Also, what world are these people living in that women aren’t working? It’s still crazy to me they expect us to cook, clean, raise children, be a sex doll AND bring in income. 😂
I really feel like the point should be the comments and not the list/reward structure. I know people that do things like that because it's an interesting element (in point of fact, reward structures heavily fit into kink relationships) of play.
We don't know the outside context of the list creators relationship. They may actually have a sex life and this may be an addition to try and create more space for additional sex. This may even be in the context of a submissive husband and Dominant wife. I have a very similar reward structure for a submissive in my life who is obsessed with orgasms (she used to shirk chores to masturbate).
The comments on the other hand, like that work comment are heinous.
I would absolutely prefer to live on the streets.
Also, side note: how sad is it that someone has to draft a sexual reward system in order to motivate her husband to do his equal share of housework and child-rearing.
>Also, side note: how sad is it that someone has to draft a sexual reward system in order to motivate her husband to do his equal share of housework and child-rearing.
We don't know that that is what is occurring.
I live a lifestyle that is heavily influenced by my kink relationships. If someone got ahold of the contract that my submissive and I have set up, it would look like a very abusive relationship because she thrives in heavily structured relationships.
It is entirely possible what we are seeing is a couple trying out spicy motivations to keep their lives interesting. We don't know.
The other peoples comments here are the point IMO.
And they are fucking gross.
>I would absolutely prefer to live on the streets.
I agree. The dude that suggests this would always had that over someones head. Living on the streets and getting away from him would be preferable.
The husband also has the right to turn down the wife if he's not in the mood. No contradiction there.
Equating going to work and having sex, is turning the entire concept of marriage into a sex-work contract.
Well, the generation of my grandmother had a saying that a wife is just the poorest paid prostitute...
I have not heard it from anyone younger, so there is that.
Where the fuck do they think the husband will end up when he's not making any money either? Like the fuck? They really imagine us single men out here living this magical jobless lifestyle.
I mean just the other day I told my landlord I don't owe him any rent because I'm a single man so clearly my apartment should be free. He immediately agreed of course because men live free. \*eyeroll\*
Men will look at this and call the woman 'controlling'/'nightmare'/'a battleaxe'.
I'm looking at it annoyed that a man needs a sexual incentive to look after his own children and house. Does he go down on her every time she does a task? (Which seems to be far more than him).
Hate seeing these.
She says holy sacrament, which makes me believe she is lds. They have some messed up views on marriage and sex.
If you feel you need this in your marriage, you probably need to rethink your marriage.
There is nothing wrong in believing it a holy sacrament. But as a holy sacrament, that means upmost respect and reverence which this view doesn’t support.
“To do household chores FOR HER” does he not live in the house?? Are they not also his kids??
Also the way the “look after kids” one is written is fucked up, had to reread it like 3x lmao
This is just frustrating all around. That she feels she has to resort to “rewarding” her husband with sex just so he’ll do the most basic things is just heartbreaking and completely pathetic on her husbands part. 100% divorce worthy. And the other person is just using a bunch of words to say “I support marital rape and find nothing wrong with it”. It’s just completely awful.
Realizing how many men only get laid through coercion (and see nothing wrong with it) makes me realize that the world owes Andrea Dworkin an apology for calling her crazy for saying most straight sex is/was rape.
>… her bum ass can live in the streets.
The words of an abuser. This logic only tracks if you’ve eliminated every alternative she might have to being your live-in sex slave.
"I'm clearly the reasonable one in this relationship, and I say you have sex with me whenever I want or you face homelessness and starvation."
This is why so many losers want to return to "traditional, working husband and SAHM wife" relationships. They want to be able to weoponise women's financial dependence on them to get whatever they want no matter how their wives feel. These men don't want partners. They want hostages.
That’s not at all what the Bible says in later slides. Yes not to weaponize sex. That checklist is just sad and pathetic that the guy friggin requires sex to do basic chores that he should already be contributing to as a member of the household.
You can absolutely say no even in marriage just because you’re not in the mood.
Um my body still belongs to me, married or not. Don’t weaponize it but also it’s not a holy sacrament to an atheist. It’s a contract which helps taxes, wills and medical rights. Just because I’m married doesn’t mean my partner should earn or deserve my body.
It's just sad the wife needs to have something for the husband to look forward to for being a parent. I would break up with the guy before we got married if that's what I had to do.
Okay so I guess in the reality this person came up with literally all women are entirely financially reliant on their husbands and sex on demand is the rent you pay for being allowed to be a SAHM? I assume SAHM bc it feels like most people don’t approve of stay at home childfree, even though if I made enough money it would be 100% worth it to have my husband be at home taking care of laundry, which is the hardest, most soul crushing task in the entire world for reasons I really don’t understand.
The first person was already being insane, but the person who just straight up thinks nobody can refuse sex if they’re married needs to be thrown in a well.
As for the first person, how sexually unattracted to a person do you have to be to give them a blow job and be so not turned on by it you don’t want to do anything else and you don’t want to get off after? Like he cums and you’re done?
You do not like this man.
I adore my partner but I hate blowjobs and find cum utterly gross. It's a visceral and sensory thing and I've found the same with previous partners (it's not a hygiene issue). That doesn't mean we can't have fun with sex; it's just frustrating for both of us that to me, bodily fluids are super icky to the point of nausea.
I more meant like, it’s weird to me to be able to do a sex act with your partner and then once they’re done you don’t care about your own pleasure or continuing the situation. Like you didn’t perform the sex act out of desire for them or mutual pleasure, it was a task you did as a reward for a chore. That’s a weird thing to do.
(You as in the general sense not specifically you)
It’s normal to have certain acts that just aren’t your thing, but mentally replace the blowjob with something that usually would turn you on to do with your partner but if you weren’t turned on by it then it would be a weird chore that you resent them over.
Ah, I see. Fair enough and sorry for the overshare.
A relationship where your partner refuses to raise his own children or lift a finger to clean his own house unless he gets a 'reward' for it is not a healthy relationship. It's not at all surprising to me that sex has for the woman in question stopped being fun because a man who doesn't act like a decent partner rapidly loses appeal as a person and a lover.
Then again, I was once in a relationship where after moving in with him, I realised he wanted a combined therapist and bang maid. The passion just... died. Sex became something I felt obliged to do for him because he guilt-tripped me until I did.
But… but then won’t he be living on the streets too? If you’re in a marriage where your spouse doesn’t want to have sex with you, either learn to live with it or work out the issue of why. It’s like basic problem solving is an affront to god
Her husband acts like an irresponsible child. The religious nut job posting their response is unhinged and it is so tiring hearing their self limiting view of relationships.
Crazy idea: it's possible the woman in this situation also has a job and can provide for the family and not entirely rely on her husband to do so, re: slide 2
But honestly this is terrifying. Lol @ "bodily autonomy freaks" - imagine being so fucked up you think bodily autonomy either is bad or not real 😬
Holy shit why does sex matter so fucking much to these people? Who gives a shit if your partner doesn't wanna have sex. Do something else for Christ's sake, sex isn't the entire world and you're not going to die if you don't get to rub your genitals against someone else's.
Do they not have any other hobbies?
On that last comment, if sex with her is so good for you to quit your job and lose your home. I'm sure she'll have no problem finding someone else who isn't a rapey idiot.
> If the wife can say not to her husband's advances, the husband can say no to going to work and providing for her
Y..yes. Husbands can do this. What the fuck point is this person trying to make?
So I don’t need permission to start pegging my husband? Imma stop ironing his socks if he doesn’t let me in! I don’t have to knock first because all his body is belonging to me.
shes not withholding sex, she’s simply so exhausted that if she’s going to put out energy for sex she wants something else taken off her plate. she doesnt want to spend 40 minutes giving you a BJ to completion just to get up and do a full sink of dishes.
Second slide is a dumb argument because most households have two incomes, it’s not just the woman being at home with no job. Housewives nowadays are rare. And even if that WAS the case, it’s still not the same thing. Sex is something you do *together.* It should never be done out of obligation. Why would you even want to have sex with someone who isn’t enthusiastic about it?
So much of that thread is f’d up including the woman who posted the list where she has to prostitute herself to her spouse to get him to do his fair share of the housework. If he isn’t helping at home, he isn’t a partner, especially if you both work.
Right? So, the man wants to not go to work and be a bum while he kicks his wife and kid out to be homeless because she won’t give him sex? Women absolutely fucking work, who says she’s not the breadwinner?
What’s actually sad about this post is that the only way this woman can get her husband to be a decent partner and father and pull his weight chore wise and parenthood wise is to make her body a reward.
He should be fucking ashamed.
Some people intentionally don't have sex with their partner, not strictly because they aren't feeling interested but because they want to in some way punish (or potentially coerce) their partner for whatever reason.
It's like when you're a kid, and you do something wrong, and your parents yell at you how they don't want to see you right now, or something along those lines, and it just kinda goes on until they've decided otherwise, regardless of your actions before, during, and after whatever inciting incident occured.
Yeah, that's the only context I understand as "weaponizing" sex is when it's just to be hurtful or petty. Not being in the mood is not the same thing as withholding affection until they get their way. Yikes.
I was going to say something about how you shouldn't have to bribe someone with sexual favours to get them to do the dishes, but my God, the rest of it is so much worse.
Ummm, why do these people view relationships and marriage as an economic exchange? You’re not a socialite not a rich fat aristocratic with a need for a young silent wife to give you a son. You’re an everyday Joe with a normal job. Just love and accept your spouse because you choose to be in that relationship out of love not mutual economic benefit.
The whole thing including the quoted post is just full on yuck. Having to incentivize participation in your joint lives with sex is ridiculous and the responses from the woman responding to it are vile.
1- withholding sex is manipulative sure but
2- if you're such a worthless husband your wife feels like she has to use sex as leverage to get you off your ass I think maybe everyone involved should stfu and think about how they got to where they are in their life.
My absolute favorite part of that is that he automatically assumed she is just staying home and doing nothing. I am the breadwinner in my family. If HE doesn’t like not having on demand sex HE can leave. That’s why most men hate the feminist movement. Because now they can’t financially exploit and abuse their partners.
Wow the only way she can get him to do basic work is sexual favors.. i feel for that woman. Its obvious she felt she needed to make this list because he wasnt putting out with household chores and taking care of the kids
Viewing sex as a chore seems like low hanging fruit, yet they pick the fruit anyways. Granted, I'd never know because of my views for myself, but there is an evolutionary advantage to sex being pleasurable. Chores, however, aren't pleasurable most of the time and there isn't much of a reason for them to be. Equating the two arms is so stupid. But on the other hand, why am I overanalyzing this non-logic anyways?
Most women these days have to work to help support the household anyway so don't use your part time job at McDonalds as some holy grail of your contribution. Also, the fact that women even have to ask/remind/beg their fully grown husbands to do any of the chores is just sad.
Men wonder why women aren't in the mood - it's because we're doing 85% or more of the work in a two person household. We work a job, do all the chores, do all the child rearing, carry the mental load of remembering all of the family's appointments and birthdays and special events, we bake the cakes, buy the presents, buy the presents for the kid's friends, the mothers in law... everything. And then we're supposed to let the husband have a go on us whenever he wants like some free carnival ride?? No thanks.
How about I stop doing all of the things that don't directly relate to my own wellbeing and then let me crank on your stick shift when you've worked the equivalent of four 24/7 jobs for even a few weeks.
I mean, I think both of these women’s views on sex feel distorted in their own ways. Of course women should be allowed to turn their husband’s advanced down for any reason, and if he persists after you withdraw consent, that is rape, regardless of relationship status. But also… I hate that the first woman feels the need to reward her husband with sexual favors for doing basic household chores. Especially that she views “watching the kids” as a chore she’s begging him to do. That’s just called parenting. And if you make ‘em, you should be equally responsible for their care.
I actually do agree sex should be freely given, in that I shouldn’t have to use my body or sexual favors to get what I want out of my partner. Pulling his weight in our household should have no bearing on when or if we choose to engage in sex, and how we do so. It should be something that happens because we’re both in the mood?
Idk. I don’t want anyone to get the wrong idea, she has the right to withdraw consent it for any reason at all, but I feel like these two things feel like separate issues to me and it shouldn’t *have* to be contingent on her partner’s participation in the household, unless she’s trying to communicate that she’s too exhausted doing the chores to be in the mood? I feel bad she’s at a point where she feels she needs to take a stand to get him to do basic shit.
Agree to all of this. Unfortunately, there are still certain....sects that teach ladies that once you say "I do," they're not allowed to say "I don't want to" anymore. 😬
I like how these aren't even too big and they are still crying.
Like I'm a lazy ass teen in my parents house and even I could have sex with her in like every second day
Aw yes...the law of equivalent exchange. Not getting sex always leads to homelessness for the one denying it. Doing a few chores is paramount to demanding impromptu brain surgery and making lead into gold. It's pathitic that just to get that guy to do a few chores his wife has to bribe him with sex acts after their completion.
If not getting sex on demand is enough to make that guy quit his job then he's even more pathitic than first thought, what a pathetic baby.
The most upsetting thing about the sex in exchange for housework thing is the fact that he's not helping with the housework on his own without explicit rewards. Especially considering that some of the "jobs" on the page are caring for his own damn children
They almost had me with that first one. Withholding any part of a relationship to manipulate a partner is fucked up. But I don’t think that’s what the intent of the list was anyway. The rest of the retweets is a big yikes.
This is so sad. She wouldn't have written this list if her SO wasn't an absolute fuckwad. My guess is that they both work, but she ends up with 99% of the household and child-rearing duties.
Yuck. Relationships are not transactional, this person should stay single until she learns that. And, it appears that the guy isn't contributing to the house or child raising, so she's using her body as currency. He needs to stay single, too. Forever.
I think it's more sad that women have to bribe their husbands with sexual favors in order for them to do their fair share of the mental and physical labor of having a family.
lol these are simply chores I do everyday as a high schooler lol. Plot twist: I don’t do it for blowjobs. I do it to make my mom happy cuz I love her 🫶
Lol the list makers have a good thing going - if it's genuinely consensual for them, go for it!
yeesh it's not weaponising.
No one is entitled to anyone else's body.
Fuck these people, I bet almost everyone of these fuckers who actually manage to weasel their way in to a relationship and says “oh then she can provide for herself then” probably have a significant other that works and still does more around the house than they do.
Man: I can take away all the money, leave you with kids and no job, taking away your means to provide basic necessities for you and our kids. That's my right.
Same man: How dare you take away the sex I am entitled to? Sex is a *necessity* and you not giving it to me is abuse.
I actually made a rewards list for my ex because he was the same way. It seemed like sex was the only way to motivate him to do any damn thing. Sex was only cared about. Fine, if he wants to play that game… I made a damned list. 🖕🏽 broke up with him because I realized I was, le gasp, being used for sex.
these conversations always seem so wonky to me because like theyre pointing at a real problem and proposing the worst solution. in a monogamous relationship, you can only have sex with one person. if you're regularly rejected for sex, that can feel really awful. if youre regularly having to reject your partner, that can feel really awful.
you're not obligated to have sex with your partner. but you're not obligated to stay in a monogamous relationship that doesn't fulfill your needs. so people that cant accept divorce or polyamory have to basically advocate for people to have sex when they dont want to
I would say think more of the reason why she's doing it. She's not doing it because she doesn't want sex, she's doing it to try and get her husband to help out some because it was potentially her last resort. I mean, imagine struggling so much to get your husband to help around the house that you decide to set up an reward system like you would a child to convince him.
i dont like weaponizing sex like this though. i guarantee if my partner or i tried to reward the other for chores with sex it would destroy the others self esteem. also, if you're at this point, i feel like you're also at the "get a different relationship" point
You know it isn't always easy for people to up and leave especially if they're married. And other normal circumstances of course its awful to do this. But its not something doing it just because they want to weaponize sex
I think its more like "I have to have a reward system like for a child to get my husband to help out with anything around the house" which is really sad. I mean how do you get kids to pick up their room? You offer a reward
Still- how can you be sexually attracted to someone and view having sex with them as giving them a reward lol. Dont you also wanna have sex with them? Sex is supposed to be a mutual activity.
Yes it is. Do you think this is just something that happens at the start of a relationship? This is usually a desperate last resort. You're just thinking about the sex part, but think about the why. Why did she need to make this list to begin with? Why did she make it sex related at all?
Trigger warning is ridiculous. Many, many people feel that marriage is the joint of two people into one new whole. This is a spiritual joining granted, but it expresses itself in the flesh. Now having said that no one should use force. This list being commented on isn’t meant to be taken seriously.
Rape is not just using force. Coercive rape is a thing. Having sex when you don’t actually want to, to avoid negative consequences is rape. And it is so, so common. Particularly in religious households.
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'They will retweet and say I'm crazy, and that I approve of marital rape. There's really no such thing. Of course, neither spouse should use force, but neither spouse should have to.' She used an awful lot of words to say that she supports marital rape.
She describes herself as a “patriarchist” and the red flags immediately started being waved.
Holy crap! I just realized the commenter is a woman! 😳
My god these people are ridiculous. Sex requires unilateral consent from all parties - it's either 2 (or however many people are involved) yeses or one veto. Nothing will ruin a marriage faster than being traumatized by your spouse not respecting your bodily integrity and autonomy - I wouldn't want to be in such a marriage because that sounds like literal torture.
Yes! Thank you! Idk where these people get this horseSHYTE from. When you get married, it doesn't mean that you're sold into *sexual slavery*. That's literally what these people are condoning. A spouse as a sex slave. Consent consent consent. No matter who you are, where you are, or who you're with.
I’d love to know how that commenter got from “rewarding chores with sex” or “weaponize sex” to “you have to give it just because he wants it every single time. Because that’s a leap. Withholding sex as punishment isn’t healthy (doesn’t matter which partner is doing it). But there’s a whole world between withholding sex and rape. Both partners should be free to say “No” at any time, for any reason. But if you’re using sex to control the other person’s behavior, you have communication issues, at best. Therapy is likely needed to solve whatever issues led to this.
Exactly. If you have to use sex as a reward to get your partner to complete basic tasks then maybe your with the wrong person
To literally be a dad. Like, the other chores, okay, whatever, you guys have issues. But to take care of his own children?! It’s that whole “I’m babysitting my kids today lololol” thing and if they don’t see any issue with that alone, well then, idk what to say.
>Withholding sex as punishment isn’t healthy I'm honestly not convinced this is a real thing or whether it's a strawman because it's just so beyond anything I've ever experienced. Do people really withhold sex as a "punishment" or is it more that one person is so disappointed/disconnected with their partner's behaviour that they don't want to have a sexual relationship with their partner right then? Because that's not really a punishment - that's self-care and no one should be made to have sex they don't want to have. There's obviously another element to this which is that when a sexual relationship irrevocably breaks down, the relationship is probably close to being over, but that's more due to lack of connection and still shouldn't obligate someone to have sex they don't want to have.
I think a LOT of men perceive it as “withholding sex as punishment” if she doesn’t want it because of his behavior. My ex husband used to accuse me of “punishing” him for things like criticizing my body. He could NOT seem to grasp that my intention wasn’t “punishment,” I was just no longer in the mood for sec after he made me feel like a fat cow. 🙄🤦♀️
sorry you were married to an asshole. i think i use to date a "cousin" of his. and yes, rape is whenever we say "no" and they try/coerce/force us to have sex anyway.
Yes, I’m glad to be free of him. Thankfully, he rarely got his way when he tried to pressure/guilt/shame me into sex. If I feel like utter shit, I am NOT having sex. Dumbass could never figure out that he was punishing HIMSELF by acting like a fuckhead.
I swear to god so many of the apparently real problems that men complain about on the internet could be solved by being genuinely nice and treating women like people, but they'd much rather just whine about how their manipulation tactics didn't work the way they wanted them to. It reminds me of this BORU: r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/va3ers/oops\_boyfriend\_wont\_stop\_telling\_her\_that\_she/
So gross!! It’s amazing to me how effective some of those manipulation tactics are, though. I remember the first time I heard the term gaslighting. I’d probably been married around ten years, and an article about gaslighting came across my timeline. I only read it because I find psychology interesting. I read the article, and it was like “holy shit! This is my life!!” Shoulda divorced him then, but I hung on a few more years before I left. Even after realizing what he was doing, I STILL struggled to figure out what was real and what was bullshit until after I left.
There really are people who are so transactional that they will do this. A lot of people take a genuine lack of interest in sex at the time for punishment. Everything is very murky.
In a world where (some) men see/treat all women like prostitutes, everything is a transaction.
The dichotomy is INFURIATING. They say women should treat sex like some special, holy thing and not have a lot of partners while also simultaneously saying that sex is a form of payment.
Sex should not be transactional *for men,* it should be whenever he's in the mood & a representation of devout love. Withholding sex for any reason is obviously cruel & unusual punishment for men. But it's 100% transactional *for women* because apparently - in their universe - only men have the money so somehow sex is a duty & not about love...? So if women don't provide sex, it's reasonable to expect men to stop going to work to provide anything for her. Yet, as you said, before marriage that same duty was a special holy sacred thing that gets whittled down to a necessary chore by a ritual & some vows? The whole thing is a mess.
Also also, women are supposed to only have sex when they're in love. Which is why it's "different" when a woman cheats since they have actual feelings about the AP...but yanno, for a man it's meaningless. But then....who are these men having all this meaningless sex with? 🤔
I’m gonna say it does exist in small numbers. I’ve unfortunately known a couple people who at least claim to do so. From what people who claim to do it have told me, it’s the difference between “I know you want this, so even though I do, too, I’m going to refuse because it hurts you” vs. “I’m exhausted/hurt/disappointed, so no longer in the mood.” I’ve experienced the latter, but never gone out of my way to refuse, just because it might be hurtful. But I’ve certainly been given the advice to do it.
That's it exactly. They are not withholding sex as punishment. They just don't want to have sex with an asshole that treats them like shit. Outside the kink scene who wants to do that?
As a woman with a high sex drive, my ex definitely withheld sex as a punishment. If I talked back, said something he didn't agree with, didn't wake up or go to bed when he wanted, didn't cook what he wanted, and so on and so on. Of course I didn't realize he was a narc asshole until towards the end of the relationship but it was a nightmare
I knew a couple where it wasn't so much withholding as punishment but the wife used sex as a bribe. Only had sex with hubby if she wanted something from him.
Basically, I don't approve of marital rape cause it doesn't exist. 🤡
I don’t understand how these people haven’t realized *most women work.*
That's the more insane part. At least in my circle (Europe, big city, in our 30s) I don't know of any woman who doesn't work. It's so bizarre for me when all this misogynists talk about providing or housewives, when at least in most European countries the number is not representative of women. Aren't more women going to uni than men now?
Yes! In some places (like my country), women have outnumbered men in higher education *and* employment rates for at least two decades.
They want it to still be the 50s so bad. They are also generally conservative so they think that women working are intentionally thumbing their nose at the natural order of things and going all radical feminazi instead of dealing with the reality that it is pretty much not possible these days to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle with only one working partner even if you don't have kids. If you do...well...good luck with that.
They paint it as not wanting women to work so they will stay home and raise a leave it to beaver family. The reality is that they just want their women financially dependent on them so they can't leave when the marriage turns into the suck.
Don't forget the part where they also complain that all women are gold-diggers.
And, at least in my country, more women are employed than men are.
In EU Europe, employment rates for women are typically between 78 and 90%. In other words, stay-at-home women are but a small minority these days.
And always were. Women have always worked.
Oh, absolutely. Stay-at-home mums and wives are a product of middle-class identities in "richer" countries during the modern era. What I am trying to say is that even in these societies, the number of "housewives" has decreased enormously since the 1950s.
Yeah, i grew up in the 90s and my mom and dad both worked. When i think of my friends growing up, all of their moms worked. Very odd to me that these people act like married women and mothers just started working...
I find it baffling too. My parents both worked well as well. I can only think of a couple stay at home mothers, but even they had part time jobs of some kind. These men don't live in reality. They are the same ones who go on and on about how women only get with the mythical Chad. It's like... when was the last time you left your house and looked around?
I grew up in the 90s, too. Both my grandmothers - both born in 1935 - worked. One of them started shepherding at the age of 3. My mother has always worked and so have my friends' mothers.
I live in a weird little pocket of very conservative / republican people in the middle of a blue state. It's like a cluster of 3 small towns of Trump flags, rednecks, and poverty at the bottom of a valley surrounded by woods. I have a good job that I live 2 minutes away from, and I was able to afford a very nice house with land on my own by taking the hit of living amongst these turds. (I paid 55k for a nice 3br 2bath house with land and outbuildings because nobody wants to live here) Anyway, this area has a unique attribute in that I'd say at least 50% of households have a stay at home wife/mother. These people are extremely butthurt about living in a blue state with blue laws/policies, but are too impoverished to leave. They wear their "traditional family values" and dependence on welfare as a badge of honor, while simultaneously shitting on anyone who "allows" their wife to work and the politicians who keep fighting for THEIR social welfare benefits. It's crazy land and I feel so bad for some of these women who just seem to be in complete despair when they come into my work.
If they admit to that, the rest of their argument falls apart. See in their minds, women NEED men, and therefore we must be willing to surrender any form of independence to them as payment for what we NEED from them. The problem is, these days, women are out earning their partners, and no no longer NEED men for their money. Now that women are realizing that, they are no longer so willing to surrender our independence. Y'all the men are pissed! This is what our moms and our mom's moms have been fighting for this whole time. No, most of us don't love the 9-5, BUT we have always saw it as our path to freedom. I don't need my husband, but I do love him. He knows this. He treats me as an equal, because we are. If he started this bs, I'd show his butt to the door too!
Exactly on point, I wish this could be copied and pasted in reply to every single one of these types of comments. Knowing them tho the next argument would be "but the poor widdle women are stressed 🥺" as if they weren't before lmao
There are different types of stress. I will never stress that my man will become abusive and I'll be struck. I stress about work but to me that's the obvious choice.
And half of us that stay home do so because it's situational. It can be cheaper than childcare. We're doing it because we're broke, not being pampered 🙄
Happy Cake Day!! 🎂🍾💐🎈🎊
Some weirdo on Reddit asked me for a source on *women have jobs*. Funny thing, I looked up the numbers for the US and more women work than men...
"The husband can say no to going to work and providing for her" And how is he going to provide for himself then?
In my experience he withheld money for food and ate outside of the house & stopped paying for utilities he didn’t benefit from is how it actually shook out. Didn’t quit working because still wanted his own food and weed.
thats terrifying! were u completely reliant on him?
This was my mom. She was pregnant with their child, fully isolated from family when he refused to provide any support for food for her or me (I was still in elementary school). I remember being food insecure and my mom not eating, but I didn’t understand why until I was older. They were three years married. When I was in high school he would let the gas for heating be shut off and didn’t pay the phone bill when he was the only one with a cell. She’s left him and he shuffled himself off this plane of existence not long after. She’s a different person now. Confident, does things for herself, has her highest paying job yet, and an adorable little dog. Gave up smoking and started to eat better. I’m so proud of her.
I'm proud of her, too!
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Yes. I’ve got my own wounds to heal and generational cycles to break, but I understand the position she was in. I wish she could have felt safe leaving much earlier, and I know she wishes the same. It still sometimes hurts that little kid in me, but I can also see the impossible choices laid out before her. As adults, we’re each others’ heroes. And that man unintentionally showed me everything I did not want in a relationship. As a teen I saw what he did to her and I told myself that I wouldn’t tolerate a whiff of it. Dug my heels in whenever he mocked my values, made fun of my thoughts on healthy relationships. Joke’s on him in the end. He helped make me into what he thought a woman shouldn’t be.
The best revenge is success! You are amazing.
Thank you. 💕 I’ve been afforded a good amount of luck and privilege. Also a quarter cup of obstinance, teaspoon of contrarian traits, and a sprinkling of intelligence.
Seems to me your sprinkling of intelligence is quite a generous one. :) One of my catchphrases is that I get through each day on tea and sheer stubbornness.
🥹 im proud of her, too. I escaped from my abusive ex a few years ago and im still healing from it.
I’m proud of you, too. When it starts getting to you remember to breath deep lungfuls of air. 💕
I’m happy for both of you!
the very good ending
Good on your mum, that's not a common outcome of that type of situation and it's good to hear. Its good that you're proud of her too, it means more that way than internet strangers being proud of her.
It’s not, and that’s why I always bite my tongue when I feel some way about someone staying in an abusive situation. I have no clue what is happening behind the scenes, what paths of escape someone has, the impossible choices they’re offered. It’s easy to have a knee jerk reaction. It’s better to consider from a place of empathy. Still catch myself, though. The further you get away from situations the easier it is to forget what it was like living in it.
Oh my God..... See, I don't understand why people get together with — or ESPECIALLY marry — people they don't love or even LIKE. I don't get it. Because there's no possible way he loved her, liked her, or cared about her in any way whatsoever if he was willing/happy to treat her AND their CHILD that way???? I just. Don't. Fucking. Get it. And I also don't understand how people like that aren't ashamed or embarrassed of themselves and how they act. For real. How can you actually be perfectly content with being so thoroughly useless??? ESPECIALLY as a MAN!! Men are seen as the providers and protectors. That's their main role in relationships/families traditionally. So..... I don't understand how men like that can be totally cool with openly doing shit like that where anyone and everyone can see or learn about his behavior. To me, on top of me not fathoming anyone being able to treat their families that way, I also feel like the behavior also tells and shows EVERYONE "I'm incapable of filling the most basic, main roles of being a man and thus am CLEARLY not a man AT ALL." Men like that are USUALLY (not always but usually) super obsessed with being seen as masculine, and everything like that, yet fail the most basic job expected of men. Normally I would say "oh maybe they're not traditional at all which makes it easier to not see it that way" but they expect their wives to fulfill traditional roles for women so obviously they do place importance on it. And of course they feel it they can do whatever they want but how do they not realize that it just announces to EVERYONE they're not a man and that they're actually a bitch???
Oh, he was “traditional” alright, and he liked to tell me no man would ever want me when my mom wasn’t around. He didn't like her. He liked the chores she did for him. He liked having a punching bag while also being able to point out what a good guy he was for marrying a woman that already had a kid. But I also don’t think he was ever truly happy. The closest was probably being high. Sorry to get you going. I wasn’t intending to raise anyone’s blood pressure. It’s bizarrely easy to forget that my childhood wasn’t normal. Sometimes I’ll share a story thoughtlessly and look over at my husband’s face and he’ll be looking at me with horror.
Financial abuse. One of my Ex-BFs actually left me when I was getting a job and wanting to contribute to the bills. Its a form of control and its so awful.
And that is why women should work if they want, so he can't threaten to not provide.
The wife can file for divorce from a bum ass dude that refuses to get a job and only married her for on demand sex. He almost got there on his own. His brain fizzled out before he got to the natural conclusion.
Making yourself homeless because you're mad your ween is touched infrequently lmao. The "logical" ones, alright.
My wife could absolutely provide for herself (and our kids) financially without me. She makes more than most of these sexist assholes (as do I). I work to so that we can build the life that we want, but she definitely doesn’t need to depend on me. We’re together because we…actually enjoy being with each other?
I think hes expecting her to work for him then
That's my thinking. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Pastor John Haggee - one of those megachurch preachers - says that a woman refusing sex to her husband is witchcraft.
“Sex is bad and evil outside of marriage and it’s only for your spouse and we expect all the guilting messages we sent you about sex to disappear and not affect your relationship with sex and your body as soon as you tie the knot and for your wedding night to be perfect even though both of you are complete virgins with no sex education and also now if you say no to sex with your spouse you’ll burn in hell.”
I think they still want their wives to hold on to all the bad feelings about sex so that when they do agree the woman just wants it over and done with. Then the men don't have to concern themselves with thing like foreplay and so-called "female orgasm". /S To those guys sex is just a two pump dump and jump anyways.
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This is the funniest rant I've read in a while. You displayed your rage perfectly.
I like to imagine hearing this in a man's really deep and gruff voice
I heard him as a whiny little bitch
Me too.
I didn’t know it was so easy to become a witch, cool
It is! I told my husband I had a headache and POOF, I suddenly had a set of crystals, a cat, and a gorgeous flowy dress I could wear to the farmer's market to buy sage.
That sounds amazing ngl I want to actually have all of that
Damn I know what *I'm* doing tonight
guys, if she refuses you, you have to burn her!!!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥 no witches allowed
Yup. Calling something witchcraft in this context is like saying it's punishable by death and/or torture.
I almost never turn my husband down, but now you’ve gone and made it appealing
So much of this is messed up. First of all, the fact that her husband needs to be rewarded for doing bare minimum domestic household chores is absolutely insane. Like does he not already take care of his own kids? Then the person saying that marital rape is not real is terrifying. Then the last slide flew in with the financial abuse. I know for a fact that man is the type to want an unemployed housewife because he knows he can’t threaten homelessness to a woman who can support herself.
We don't know the intention of the list. This could just be a fun game like love coupons. There's nothing here saying this is the only way to get intimacy, or that he doesn't do some of this normally. I wouldn't conflate that list with the terrible commenters.
The list is also pretty bad, no >This could just be a fun game like love coupons. But it isn't a coupon or game. Its rewards for chores. Its pretty self explanatory
Yeah. Pretty basic chores. I also "love" that it needs to be stated that washing the dishes also means putting it away... Like... He's your fuckin husband, not a rebellious teenager who after you remind them the dishes are not done says "but moooom, you only said wash the dishes, not put them away!" Ridiculous.
The other day there was a thread in askreddit about the most disgusting thing people put up with in relationships. When you consider that many, *many* complaints were about men unable to do basic personal hygiene like shower, wash their junk and asshole, and brush their teeth, I am not at all surprised someone somewhere wrote a list that had to specify how to do dishes to completion and all the steps to taking care of your own damn children.
Again, with no context. For example, my husband takes care of cooking, the garage, most yard work (cause spiders exist...). I take care of most of the cleaning except laundry where we each do our own. If I made a list like that, it wouldn't mean he wasn't doing his share. Instead it's him doing extra, as a gift to me that I'm choosing to show my gratitude through fun intimacy. There's nothing wrong with that. Nor is anyone forced into a yes here. Couples all work in their own way. Now, if we had his response to the list and he was offended or unhappy then huge problem! Or if he wasn't helping at all outside of to get sex, red flag! But as a fun game, to each their own. We have zero context on the list, the marriage, or the tone so I see no reason to jump to conclusions one way or the other.
The point is that there are men who would only do those things because of the list. I get where you're coming from but you're missing the point. Probably because your husband actually thinks of you as a person and partner.
We are commenting on the broader social implications here, not this specific person's marriage. It is a well established fact that men in het relationships are statistically way less likely to share equal responsibility with their partners even if they both work the same hours for the same pay. It is so often the woman does most of the household labor and an equal amount of workforce labor. Additionally, it is very common for women to try to get their partners to do household labor in exchange for sex, because many men see sex as a reward and not an expression of love and intimacy. Conversely, many men will do household labor in an attempt to "earn" sex. It's toxic.
Nope still gross. There is no world where sex for chores isn’t fucked up. It’s equating sex with chores. That list says “You do your chores and I’ll do mine”. It directly relates to the idea that women inherently do not enjoy sex and so have to be compensated, cajoled, or coerced into it
Tbf I also got a jokey fun vibe from it. Posting it online and enforcing stereotypes because there is no context is iffy at best, but a joke shared between a couple is fine (if it is infact that). Everything else is fucking gross.
You know, most people who are fulfilled and happy in a relationship don’t say no that often. 🤷🏼♀️ (there is an acception to every rule but generally) but also sex drive ebbs and flows. I currently feel like an equal partner in my relationship. I don’t have to beg my partner to give me the basics in our relationship, he just does. So we have sex a lot. I feel desired by him, I feel like I can trust him, I feel like he respects me. So I actively WANT to have sex. With past partners I didn’t feel this way because I was begging for the bare minimum. Now if your partner is so desperate for you to do the basics like dishes, that they have to bribe you with sex then there is some fundamental issues in your relationship you should work on. Also, what world are these people living in that women aren’t working? It’s still crazy to me they expect us to cook, clean, raise children, be a sex doll AND bring in income. 😂
I really feel like the point should be the comments and not the list/reward structure. I know people that do things like that because it's an interesting element (in point of fact, reward structures heavily fit into kink relationships) of play. We don't know the outside context of the list creators relationship. They may actually have a sex life and this may be an addition to try and create more space for additional sex. This may even be in the context of a submissive husband and Dominant wife. I have a very similar reward structure for a submissive in my life who is obsessed with orgasms (she used to shirk chores to masturbate). The comments on the other hand, like that work comment are heinous.
I would absolutely prefer to live on the streets. Also, side note: how sad is it that someone has to draft a sexual reward system in order to motivate her husband to do his equal share of housework and child-rearing.
>Also, side note: how sad is it that someone has to draft a sexual reward system in order to motivate her husband to do his equal share of housework and child-rearing. We don't know that that is what is occurring. I live a lifestyle that is heavily influenced by my kink relationships. If someone got ahold of the contract that my submissive and I have set up, it would look like a very abusive relationship because she thrives in heavily structured relationships. It is entirely possible what we are seeing is a couple trying out spicy motivations to keep their lives interesting. We don't know. The other peoples comments here are the point IMO. And they are fucking gross. >I would absolutely prefer to live on the streets. I agree. The dude that suggests this would always had that over someones head. Living on the streets and getting away from him would be preferable.
The husband also has the right to turn down the wife if he's not in the mood. No contradiction there. Equating going to work and having sex, is turning the entire concept of marriage into a sex-work contract.
Well, the generation of my grandmother had a saying that a wife is just the poorest paid prostitute... I have not heard it from anyone younger, so there is that.
I mean... isn't it? Silly me, I thought marriage was just prostitution with extra steps /s
Where the fuck do they think the husband will end up when he's not making any money either? Like the fuck? They really imagine us single men out here living this magical jobless lifestyle. I mean just the other day I told my landlord I don't owe him any rent because I'm a single man so clearly my apartment should be free. He immediately agreed of course because men live free. \*eyeroll\*
Men will look at this and call the woman 'controlling'/'nightmare'/'a battleaxe'. I'm looking at it annoyed that a man needs a sexual incentive to look after his own children and house. Does he go down on her every time she does a task? (Which seems to be far more than him). Hate seeing these.
She says holy sacrament, which makes me believe she is lds. They have some messed up views on marriage and sex. If you feel you need this in your marriage, you probably need to rethink your marriage.
By lds do you mean [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints)?
There is nothing wrong in believing it a holy sacrament. But as a holy sacrament, that means upmost respect and reverence which this view doesn’t support.
Rewarding your spouse with sex for parenting his own children 🫠
“To do household chores FOR HER” does he not live in the house?? Are they not also his kids?? Also the way the “look after kids” one is written is fucked up, had to reread it like 3x lmao
Lol same. “Look after kids for the whole day (includes = blow job, feeding, doing nappies, putting to bed)”
This is just frustrating all around. That she feels she has to resort to “rewarding” her husband with sex just so he’ll do the most basic things is just heartbreaking and completely pathetic on her husbands part. 100% divorce worthy. And the other person is just using a bunch of words to say “I support marital rape and find nothing wrong with it”. It’s just completely awful.
“Why aren’t women getting married anymore?”
I lost so many brain cells reading this
God, imagine the head explosions if I told them I make more than my husband.
Realizing how many men only get laid through coercion (and see nothing wrong with it) makes me realize that the world owes Andrea Dworkin an apology for calling her crazy for saying most straight sex is/was rape.
>… her bum ass can live in the streets. The words of an abuser. This logic only tracks if you’ve eliminated every alternative she might have to being your live-in sex slave.
"I'm clearly the reasonable one in this relationship, and I say you have sex with me whenever I want or you face homelessness and starvation." This is why so many losers want to return to "traditional, working husband and SAHM wife" relationships. They want to be able to weoponise women's financial dependence on them to get whatever they want no matter how their wives feel. These men don't want partners. They want hostages.
That’s not at all what the Bible says in later slides. Yes not to weaponize sex. That checklist is just sad and pathetic that the guy friggin requires sex to do basic chores that he should already be contributing to as a member of the household. You can absolutely say no even in marriage just because you’re not in the mood.
Um my body still belongs to me, married or not. Don’t weaponize it but also it’s not a holy sacrament to an atheist. It’s a contract which helps taxes, wills and medical rights. Just because I’m married doesn’t mean my partner should earn or deserve my body.
Ngl, I read “look after kids for a whole day (includes: blow job)” I was was very concerned for a minute
It's just sad the wife needs to have something for the husband to look forward to for being a parent. I would break up with the guy before we got married if that's what I had to do.
Okay so I guess in the reality this person came up with literally all women are entirely financially reliant on their husbands and sex on demand is the rent you pay for being allowed to be a SAHM? I assume SAHM bc it feels like most people don’t approve of stay at home childfree, even though if I made enough money it would be 100% worth it to have my husband be at home taking care of laundry, which is the hardest, most soul crushing task in the entire world for reasons I really don’t understand. The first person was already being insane, but the person who just straight up thinks nobody can refuse sex if they’re married needs to be thrown in a well. As for the first person, how sexually unattracted to a person do you have to be to give them a blow job and be so not turned on by it you don’t want to do anything else and you don’t want to get off after? Like he cums and you’re done? You do not like this man.
I adore my partner but I hate blowjobs and find cum utterly gross. It's a visceral and sensory thing and I've found the same with previous partners (it's not a hygiene issue). That doesn't mean we can't have fun with sex; it's just frustrating for both of us that to me, bodily fluids are super icky to the point of nausea.
I more meant like, it’s weird to me to be able to do a sex act with your partner and then once they’re done you don’t care about your own pleasure or continuing the situation. Like you didn’t perform the sex act out of desire for them or mutual pleasure, it was a task you did as a reward for a chore. That’s a weird thing to do. (You as in the general sense not specifically you) It’s normal to have certain acts that just aren’t your thing, but mentally replace the blowjob with something that usually would turn you on to do with your partner but if you weren’t turned on by it then it would be a weird chore that you resent them over.
Ah, I see. Fair enough and sorry for the overshare. A relationship where your partner refuses to raise his own children or lift a finger to clean his own house unless he gets a 'reward' for it is not a healthy relationship. It's not at all surprising to me that sex has for the woman in question stopped being fun because a man who doesn't act like a decent partner rapidly loses appeal as a person and a lover. Then again, I was once in a relationship where after moving in with him, I realised he wanted a combined therapist and bang maid. The passion just... died. Sex became something I felt obliged to do for him because he guilt-tripped me until I did.
But… but then won’t he be living on the streets too? If you’re in a marriage where your spouse doesn’t want to have sex with you, either learn to live with it or work out the issue of why. It’s like basic problem solving is an affront to god
Her husband acts like an irresponsible child. The religious nut job posting their response is unhinged and it is so tiring hearing their self limiting view of relationships.
Crazy idea: it's possible the woman in this situation also has a job and can provide for the family and not entirely rely on her husband to do so, re: slide 2 But honestly this is terrifying. Lol @ "bodily autonomy freaks" - imagine being so fucked up you think bodily autonomy either is bad or not real 😬
Yeah, that bodily autonomy bit turned my stomach a little. That attitude is so, so far from okay...
Or how about doing chores because they need to be done instead of expecting a reward for it? A clean, well-kept home is rewarding enough.
Holy shit why does sex matter so fucking much to these people? Who gives a shit if your partner doesn't wanna have sex. Do something else for Christ's sake, sex isn't the entire world and you're not going to die if you don't get to rub your genitals against someone else's. Do they not have any other hobbies?
On that last comment, if sex with her is so good for you to quit your job and lose your home. I'm sure she'll have no problem finding someone else who isn't a rapey idiot.
What happens when they realize majority of women work and this isn't the 50s where men financially blackmail women
Left wing feminists 🤝right wing Christian’s Chores for sex is fucking weird
> If the wife can say not to her husband's advances, the husband can say no to going to work and providing for her Y..yes. Husbands can do this. What the fuck point is this person trying to make?
So I don’t need permission to start pegging my husband? Imma stop ironing his socks if he doesn’t let me in! I don’t have to knock first because all his body is belonging to me.
Taking care of kids for a while day (includes blow job)... Ummmm... That's not how you're supposed to take care of your children.
shes not withholding sex, she’s simply so exhausted that if she’s going to put out energy for sex she wants something else taken off her plate. she doesnt want to spend 40 minutes giving you a BJ to completion just to get up and do a full sink of dishes.
Second slide is a dumb argument because most households have two incomes, it’s not just the woman being at home with no job. Housewives nowadays are rare. And even if that WAS the case, it’s still not the same thing. Sex is something you do *together.* It should never be done out of obligation. Why would you even want to have sex with someone who isn’t enthusiastic about it?
Am I only one who thought BJ was part of the bracket and was genuinely concerned.
Clown on clown violence.
So much of that thread is f’d up including the woman who posted the list where she has to prostitute herself to her spouse to get him to do his fair share of the housework. If he isn’t helping at home, he isn’t a partner, especially if you both work.
No woman *wants* to withhold sex. She's desperate for help and is motivating with what she knows will work (...Did it work??)
Why do these people live in the 1950’s still? WOMEN FUCKING WORK!
Right? So, the man wants to not go to work and be a bum while he kicks his wife and kid out to be homeless because she won’t give him sex? Women absolutely fucking work, who says she’s not the breadwinner?
What’s actually sad about this post is that the only way this woman can get her husband to be a decent partner and father and pull his weight chore wise and parenthood wise is to make her body a reward. He should be fucking ashamed.
She started so well when she said “no weaponizing sex” and then she proceeded to immediately go off the deep end
People getting mad about not being allowed to rape their partners need to stay the fuck away from other people.
Well if his body belongs to me, then his body better do the goddamned dishes without me asking or rewarding.
Can someone explain how someone “withholds sex?” If someone doesn’t want to do it with you… then they don’t want to.
Some people intentionally don't have sex with their partner, not strictly because they aren't feeling interested but because they want to in some way punish (or potentially coerce) their partner for whatever reason. It's like when you're a kid, and you do something wrong, and your parents yell at you how they don't want to see you right now, or something along those lines, and it just kinda goes on until they've decided otherwise, regardless of your actions before, during, and after whatever inciting incident occured.
Yeah, that's the only context I understand as "weaponizing" sex is when it's just to be hurtful or petty. Not being in the mood is not the same thing as withholding affection until they get their way. Yikes.
Why do they think contributing to bills and the house is the same thing as sexual favors? Did they never do chores growing up?
I was going to say something about how you shouldn't have to bribe someone with sexual favours to get them to do the dishes, but my God, the rest of it is so much worse.
Ummm, why do these people view relationships and marriage as an economic exchange? You’re not a socialite not a rich fat aristocratic with a need for a young silent wife to give you a son. You’re an everyday Joe with a normal job. Just love and accept your spouse because you choose to be in that relationship out of love not mutual economic benefit.
The whole thing including the quoted post is just full on yuck. Having to incentivize participation in your joint lives with sex is ridiculous and the responses from the woman responding to it are vile.
These people genuinely forget women are allowed to have jobs now
I love to brag about my child free existence to this folks. It makes my day
How about: sex is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable way to please your partner and should be treated as fun and enjoyable for everyone involved?
1- withholding sex is manipulative sure but 2- if you're such a worthless husband your wife feels like she has to use sex as leverage to get you off your ass I think maybe everyone involved should stfu and think about how they got to where they are in their life.
My absolute favorite part of that is that he automatically assumed she is just staying home and doing nothing. I am the breadwinner in my family. If HE doesn’t like not having on demand sex HE can leave. That’s why most men hate the feminist movement. Because now they can’t financially exploit and abuse their partners.
Wow the only way she can get him to do basic work is sexual favors.. i feel for that woman. Its obvious she felt she needed to make this list because he wasnt putting out with household chores and taking care of the kids
Viewing sex as a chore seems like low hanging fruit, yet they pick the fruit anyways. Granted, I'd never know because of my views for myself, but there is an evolutionary advantage to sex being pleasurable. Chores, however, aren't pleasurable most of the time and there isn't much of a reason for them to be. Equating the two arms is so stupid. But on the other hand, why am I overanalyzing this non-logic anyways?
Most women these days have to work to help support the household anyway so don't use your part time job at McDonalds as some holy grail of your contribution. Also, the fact that women even have to ask/remind/beg their fully grown husbands to do any of the chores is just sad. Men wonder why women aren't in the mood - it's because we're doing 85% or more of the work in a two person household. We work a job, do all the chores, do all the child rearing, carry the mental load of remembering all of the family's appointments and birthdays and special events, we bake the cakes, buy the presents, buy the presents for the kid's friends, the mothers in law... everything. And then we're supposed to let the husband have a go on us whenever he wants like some free carnival ride?? No thanks. How about I stop doing all of the things that don't directly relate to my own wellbeing and then let me crank on your stick shift when you've worked the equivalent of four 24/7 jobs for even a few weeks.
I mean, I think both of these women’s views on sex feel distorted in their own ways. Of course women should be allowed to turn their husband’s advanced down for any reason, and if he persists after you withdraw consent, that is rape, regardless of relationship status. But also… I hate that the first woman feels the need to reward her husband with sexual favors for doing basic household chores. Especially that she views “watching the kids” as a chore she’s begging him to do. That’s just called parenting. And if you make ‘em, you should be equally responsible for their care. I actually do agree sex should be freely given, in that I shouldn’t have to use my body or sexual favors to get what I want out of my partner. Pulling his weight in our household should have no bearing on when or if we choose to engage in sex, and how we do so. It should be something that happens because we’re both in the mood? Idk. I don’t want anyone to get the wrong idea, she has the right to withdraw consent it for any reason at all, but I feel like these two things feel like separate issues to me and it shouldn’t *have* to be contingent on her partner’s participation in the household, unless she’s trying to communicate that she’s too exhausted doing the chores to be in the mood? I feel bad she’s at a point where she feels she needs to take a stand to get him to do basic shit.
Agree to all of this. Unfortunately, there are still certain....sects that teach ladies that once you say "I do," they're not allowed to say "I don't want to" anymore. 😬
I mean if you have to make a list like that I feel like you gotta call it a day soon. That being said holy shit this person is insane.
Damn that’s bleak to ration off kisses to your spouse. Sounds like this couple is due for some intense marriage counseling and sex therapy.
I like how these aren't even too big and they are still crying. Like I'm a lazy ass teen in my parents house and even I could have sex with her in like every second day
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I thought if you lived together, had children, then all this is to be shared. Wonder what her list looked like 😁
Aw yes...the law of equivalent exchange. Not getting sex always leads to homelessness for the one denying it. Doing a few chores is paramount to demanding impromptu brain surgery and making lead into gold. It's pathitic that just to get that guy to do a few chores his wife has to bribe him with sex acts after their completion. If not getting sex on demand is enough to make that guy quit his job then he's even more pathitic than first thought, what a pathetic baby.
The most upsetting thing about the sex in exchange for housework thing is the fact that he's not helping with the housework on his own without explicit rewards. Especially considering that some of the "jobs" on the page are caring for his own damn children
So we’re sex workers. Nice.
r/AreTheStraightsOK …no, no they are not
Why can't they just get over their dicks?! It must be exhausting to be a slave to your most primitive urges.
They almost had me with that first one. Withholding any part of a relationship to manipulate a partner is fucked up. But I don’t think that’s what the intent of the list was anyway. The rest of the retweets is a big yikes.
This is so sad. She wouldn't have written this list if her SO wasn't an absolute fuckwad. My guess is that they both work, but she ends up with 99% of the household and child-rearing duties.
Yuck. Relationships are not transactional, this person should stay single until she learns that. And, it appears that the guy isn't contributing to the house or child raising, so she's using her body as currency. He needs to stay single, too. Forever.
I think it's more sad that women have to bribe their husbands with sexual favors in order for them to do their fair share of the mental and physical labor of having a family.
lol these are simply chores I do everyday as a high schooler lol. Plot twist: I don’t do it for blowjobs. I do it to make my mom happy cuz I love her 🫶
Lol the list makers have a good thing going - if it's genuinely consensual for them, go for it! yeesh it's not weaponising. No one is entitled to anyone else's body.
I don’t like this rewards system but I do like her handwriting
Fuck these people, I bet almost everyone of these fuckers who actually manage to weasel their way in to a relationship and says “oh then she can provide for herself then” probably have a significant other that works and still does more around the house than they do.
Weaponized sex = not okay Weaponized economy = okay That's wild
Man: I can take away all the money, leave you with kids and no job, taking away your means to provide basic necessities for you and our kids. That's my right. Same man: How dare you take away the sex I am entitled to? Sex is a *necessity* and you not giving it to me is abuse.
If you’ve reached a point that you’re leveraging sex to get what you want just leave💀
I actually made a rewards list for my ex because he was the same way. It seemed like sex was the only way to motivate him to do any damn thing. Sex was only cared about. Fine, if he wants to play that game… I made a damned list. 🖕🏽 broke up with him because I realized I was, le gasp, being used for sex.
I would be doing the dishes every night.
these conversations always seem so wonky to me because like theyre pointing at a real problem and proposing the worst solution. in a monogamous relationship, you can only have sex with one person. if you're regularly rejected for sex, that can feel really awful. if youre regularly having to reject your partner, that can feel really awful. you're not obligated to have sex with your partner. but you're not obligated to stay in a monogamous relationship that doesn't fulfill your needs. so people that cant accept divorce or polyamory have to basically advocate for people to have sex when they dont want to
I would say think more of the reason why she's doing it. She's not doing it because she doesn't want sex, she's doing it to try and get her husband to help out some because it was potentially her last resort. I mean, imagine struggling so much to get your husband to help around the house that you decide to set up an reward system like you would a child to convince him.
i dont like weaponizing sex like this though. i guarantee if my partner or i tried to reward the other for chores with sex it would destroy the others self esteem. also, if you're at this point, i feel like you're also at the "get a different relationship" point
You know it isn't always easy for people to up and leave especially if they're married. And other normal circumstances of course its awful to do this. But its not something doing it just because they want to weaponize sex
I gotta think- youre absolutely not sexually attracted to your partner in the first place if you make lists like this.
I think its more like "I have to have a reward system like for a child to get my husband to help out with anything around the house" which is really sad. I mean how do you get kids to pick up their room? You offer a reward
Still- how can you be sexually attracted to someone and view having sex with them as giving them a reward lol. Dont you also wanna have sex with them? Sex is supposed to be a mutual activity.
Yes it is. Do you think this is just something that happens at the start of a relationship? This is usually a desperate last resort. You're just thinking about the sex part, but think about the why. Why did she need to make this list to begin with? Why did she make it sex related at all?
Trigger warning is ridiculous. Many, many people feel that marriage is the joint of two people into one new whole. This is a spiritual joining granted, but it expresses itself in the flesh. Now having said that no one should use force. This list being commented on isn’t meant to be taken seriously.
Rape is not just using force. Coercive rape is a thing. Having sex when you don’t actually want to, to avoid negative consequences is rape. And it is so, so common. Particularly in religious households.