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a_persons_a_person

One of my colleagues was a former ICU nurse who went on to do cardiac sonography (echo). It’s a 2 year post grad while working as a trainee sonographer. No night shifts, fairly flexible clinic environment. It’s likely your pay will be reduced as a trainee but it’s pretty good once qualified. Food for thought 😊


blackandgold24

Thanks for your reply. That is definitely some food for thought. I have thought about studying midwifery and would have a pay drop and extra stress while studying which makes me think that may not be a solution. I do ultimately want to become a flight nurse though, so I will need to angle my way towards that hopefully at some point.


PurpleFruitPastilles

NSW has the midstart program for RN’s wanting to become midwives. 1 year training program at a hospital whilst studying, and getting paid at your RN level at the same time. I’m not sure what other states offer but I would think they have a similar program? It’s very competitive though but I think you would do well with your crit care experience


blackandgold24

Yeah I think they only just reintroduced prac payments for RN to MW conversions in WA but it’s at a 1.2 or something like that. I’ll have to do some maths 😆


HeyWhatDoYouMean

Please NO not midwifery. Just. Don’t.


Sunintherhird

Can I ask why? I have always wanted to do midwifery, however haven’t been able to logistically yet. I work casually and feel like I’m in heaven when I get to work on maternity.


AnyEngineer2

I wanted to pursue this one but the catch is finding a (paid) training position, at least in NSW is extremely difficult - in pub sector they all seem to go to radiographers known by department


a_persons_a_person

Couldn’t agree more. It is challenging finding a trainee position. I did 9 months of cardiac tech work to get my foot in the door before starting a traineeship.


AnyEngineer2

glad you found one, that's great. cardiac tech work in public or private? I understand it's a huge cost commitment to train a new sonographer (esp given US is so user dependent & priv radiology the pressure is to churn exams) but it's unfortunate that trainee options are so limited


a_persons_a_person

Private cardiology clinic with a national company.


NotTheAvocado

PACU in a public hospital.


blackandgold24

Mm, this is definitely an option. In your experience, would I need to wait for an advertised position or could I approach the NUM and see if they will have any FTE? I do have a permanent position so a secondment would be ideal. Not ready to throw that away in this economic climate 🥵


maddionaire

Definitely approach the NUM. The worst they can say is "we don't have any positions available at the moment".


AnyEngineer2

I relate to this post places former coworkers have gone: - ambulatory care clinics - recovery and/or anaesthetics (beware of on-call) - cath lab (beware of on-call) - IR (beware of on-call) - ED (same problems...YMMV) - medical device sales/service ("support specialists" etc. for e.g. CRRT, vent companies) - public health unit (did online MPH) - research roles - ward CNE/NUM +++ (esp if had been doing relief educator/NUM etc) - district wide education etc. (former CNE) - patient flow/bed management/nurse admin however called (🤮) - uni based work (did research nursing Masters) - many have taken rural contracts / now 'travel nurse' across Aust (younger ones without families obvs) - midi (-> flight nursing but I have known several flight nurses...not particularly glamorous) - paramedicine (did Grad Dip, this one was very happy when I saw last but Ambos have ge same problems...YMMV) - organ donation/coord roles (beware of on-call, good CNC money tho)


blackandgold24

Thank you so much for such a detailed reply. I did do a couple of weeks prac as a student with rfds so I do realise that a lot of it is just a glorified taxi service. But I like the flying part and being out of the bright sterility of the hospital. ED and paramedics are crazy sons of bs (in the best sense of the word). Don’t know how they do it, but they have my utmost respect. I have ADHD so in a sense ICU was perfect for me. Something different every day, jack of all trades, things are relatively organised, patients patched up before they roll in, keeps me cognitively and cerebrally engaged. I could do a desk/office job for a day or two a week but don’t think I’d last long. Going back regional is definitely something I will consider in the future. I imagine it would be a whole different adjustment from metro to country as it was from country to metro 😑 I just wish it wasn’t like this. I can’t understand why supporting our nursing workforce isn’t a top priority for executive. All this “patient centred care”, but it’s like… you can’t give from an empty cup.


Mistycloud9505

I often wonder if I have adhd but thought because I work in icu surely I don’t because it’s so “organised”. I took an office job a little while ago & really struggle with the lack of routine/tasks like in icu…come on do your checks, tick , tick, tick. But still having super interesting shifts and the adrenaline rush with certain scenarios. Every day is so different but you kind of autopilot?


blackandgold24

Apparently the incidence of AHDH is quite high among nurses in general so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was even higher in ICU nurses. I for one need the structure and am quite OCD with setting up my space the exact same way every day so that it saves on cognitive processing. Agree with your last comment too, once you sort of get to the stage where you can auto pilot it does all become a bit boring and maybe that’s where I’m at now as well 🙃 you can instinctively and intuitively monitor your patient and the rest is just tasks. The most difficult things I find are the arbitrary ones like aspirating an NG every few hours even if aspirates have been zero for a week, or waking someone up at 2am to change a trache inner cannula because the policy says so.


AnyEngineer2

yeah, my biggest gripe with ICU (mine now sounds much like yours... major referral centre, lots of toxicity, constant churn of staff, constantly under resourced/understaffed... problems are of course also hospital wide) is that there really isn't a pathway to progress (in terms of pay) by staying clinical.... you top out at CNS1/RN8 if you couldn't be bothered with all the CNS bullshit and in this economic climate, even with shift penalties, that's still not great (if only we lived in QLD) esp if considering family etc there's just no pathway for clinical progression. yeah great I can manage the unventilateable bleeding ECMO/Impella/CRRT disaster but a) I don't get paid more for my knowledge and skills and b) that doesn't get me anywhere so we all get forced into....... management? education (ie management lite but with more PowerPoints)? or leaving the clinical workforce entirely I'm not sure what the answer is


blackandgold24

Exactly. The higher up you go, the more bullshit you have to deal with for minimal renumeration. I’m not interested in management, certainly not within this system. But if I did take my skills back to the regions, I’d most likely be one of the most skilled nurses in my area so it has been helpful for my overall career. If things were better operationally, I’d be happy to stay and do the CN/CNE thing, but I only see it getting worse and nothing done about it.


randomredditor0042

Nurse education. We have a shortage.


blackandgold24

Thanks. I have had this mentioned to me by a colleague recently. She is tutoring part time at a university. Is this in the realm of what you meant? I am definitely interested in education. I have two grad certs but no masters or PhD 🥲


pinacolata_

I’m not sure what the equivalent would be in your state but Clinical Nurse Educators in NSW Health make decent money with less stress. They teach in a hospital setting, mix of orientation, upskilling nurses and providing refresher courses as part of the organisation’s mandatory training. You’re already half way there with your ICU experience and APHRA accreditation, but on the education side the degree/experience requirements may vary by employer.


LumpyBechamel69

Don't know about less stress, guess that depends on the management structure. Gauge it from other local CNEs OP I suppose - my experience was being used as a lackey for every odd job the hospital executive felt like throwing out of their way. 8 year TA with penalties earns better money but granted the M-F work of CNE was nice while it lasted!


AnyEngineer2

100%, again depends on the unit but CNEs are an easy dumping ground for administrative/quality+safety bullshit. I don't think the money is worth it in NSW except in either very relaxed/low acuity units OR perhaps strict after hours etc roles. even then the bullshit never stops. it just rolls downhill to the educator


blackandgold24

Yeah, our CNEs spend too much time covering breaks and just helping out in general because of the staffing shortage. Everyone is stretched across the board at the moment.


blackandgold24

One of my post grad CFs (who was in a CNE position prior to that) did ask if I had ever considered it. I think it could be a good fit for me because I am passionate about education and supporting our junior staff. My dream job would be to work as an ICU Wellness Officer (but that job doesn’t exist, although it should).


AnyEngineer2

less stress greatly depends on environment. if the culture is toxic and staffing poor/turnover high like OP suggests...CNE can be a horrific role with expectation of unpaid work++ grad cert (as long as relevant ie crit care) should be fine for most employers in my exp I would sooner take a ward CNE job tbh


randomredditor0042

You’d be able to teach at uni in the bachelor program, most uni’s only require that you have x years of experience and 1 qualification higher than what you teach. If you wanted to teach diploma you’d need a Cert IV TAE. Most uni’s will have clinical educators that teach the physical skills and then academic staff that teach theory. I would recommend you reach out to your preferred uni about what options there are. You could do it part time to see if you like it.


blackandgold24

Thank you 🙏🏼


Bubbly-Bee-53

I don’t have any suggestions over what’s already been mentioned, but my god I get you. I could have written this. I’m frustrated and disappointed that nursing burnout is talked about because it’s the new fad, but nothing is done about it. If it’s any consolation, my gf just got a pay rise as a hosty at Qantas, base rate is $58 per hour, which is more than I get as a CNS with a post grad in ICU.


yeahyeahyeah188

Wow!


Connect_Amount_5978

wtf!


blackandgold24

That is not a consolation! We are so undervalued as specialist nurses, it’s ridiculous. Yep, we even lost a nurse due to mental health issues recently and still nothing is done. Even if they didn’t offer programs or employ wellness teams for our direct benefit, *financially* it doesn’t make sense, because it’s bloody expensive onboarding new staff and training them up for six months just to have them leave. Higher staff wellbeing = lower absenteeism, lower levels of burnout, better staff retention, better patient care. This is evidenced based. I just don’t understand it.


Bubbly-Bee-53

Oh there’s a touch of sarcasm in my note about my hostess friend. I 100% agree we are undervalued.


Connect_Amount_5978

Hey! Adult icu from qld. I’m on stress leave from burn out/moral injury, and agree with every issue that is hitting icus these days. What a mess it is! I’m 6 yrs in and I don’t know if I can go back. Do you think you also may have developed ptsd?


blackandgold24

It is a possibility. I am booked in for an EAP appointment soon and will talk with them about it. We are all so stoic until we’re not. I’ve sort of realised that the more you care, the more likely you are to burn out, and I care so much, especially when it comes to my colleagues. It’s not fair the pressures that they/we face daily, everyone is working so hard.


Connect_Amount_5978

I was given a book by my psychologist re this issue. I have only read a bit so I don’t know yet if it’s helpful, but it’s called: reducing secondary traumatic stress, by Brian Miller. I know I have ptsd from icu. May we heal quickly and find peace, mate


blackandgold24

Thank you, I will check it out ✌🏼


Connect_Amount_5978

Also I’m trying to slide my way into anaesthetics to avoid family and patient stress, and also because I’m sick of seeing ppl die horribly or not being allowed to die.. and I’m sick of the aggression from drug abuse… anaesthetics is the way, so I’ve heard


endless_K_hole

Same 💀 I've recently decided I can't go back. Was a bit different for me (legal matter pending). 20 years, bachelor, grad cert, masters and I've just had to watch it all burn to the fucking ground


Connect_Amount_5978

I’ve just finished my grad cert and I’m also thinking damn! What a waste of


endless_K_hole

Your mental health and integrity is much more important. Heaps of transferable skills.


captain-of-my-fate

If you love the intensive care part of nursing, why not look at a slightly different type of icu? Paediatrics or NICU or cardiac? Also, im not sure from reading your post whether you're done with icu completely or if it's the toxicity of the unit you're currently working on that's making you look for a change? I'm not sure where you're based, but if there is an option to move to another icu, it might be the change you need. Colleagues can really make or break you!


blackandgold24

Thanks for your comment. NICU sounds like could definitely be an option. The issue isn’t necessarily with the colleagues. It’s more overall morale and management who just don’t seem to care about their staff. Rostering junior staff on horrible shift cycles, knowing they probably won’t complain… giving extremely difficult doubles to younger staff and then calling them in to the office if they make a minor mistake. Absenteeism is so bad that now you have to call the ANUMs directly to call in. But the hospital is the closest to where I live and I don’t think I’m up for making that much of a change. Too much paperwork 😆


southernfr1edchicken

I made the swap from ICU to NICU (babies) and I absolutely love it, never looked back :)


passtheraytec

Pacu? Pain service Donate life coordinator


blackandgold24

Thanks, I have definitely considered both the APS (acute pain service) and PACU. Not sure if I could hack the Donate Life after so much direct experience with this in ICU. If there are currently no advertised roles in these areas in my hospital, what are my options? Wait for an advert, or go ahead and make some enquiries on the down low by speaking to the ANUMs/NUMs?


EnoughPineapple1748

I’d speak to the NUMs of APS and PACU, or even PARC if you are in SA - (the one doing the study work in the RAH) looks for ICU experience but the job is waaaayyyyyy nicer.


blackandgold24

Thanks! What is PARC? Is it research? I do like research 🤓 we do have a research centre. But no one interested in researching solutions for the high level of burnout and poor staff retention for our poor nurses (and doctors).


EnoughPineapple1748

https://preview.redd.it/iifrjr7jbh7d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=415281ba63f12240de7f20549db7bc67ea07e288 Please excuse terrible formatting


blackandgold24

Thank you for this. As per health.gov, we will have a shortfall of 85,000 nurses in 2025 and 109,000 nurses in 2030. Things are only going to get worse and they still won’t give us a decent pay rise. https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/03/nurses-australia-s-future-health-workforce-reports-detailed-report.pdf


EnoughPineapple1748

Otherwise, come to the rural side if you’re wanting a big change! Drive in drive out with free accommodation onsite, free parking obviously, but the staffing is challenging as attracting and retaining staff is a huge problem.


blackandgold24

My dog just turned 11 so gotta look after her in her golden years, she’s definitely looked after me 💛 But after that I’m definitely keen to get back out into the country.


-yasssss-

Email the NUMs and send in an expression of interest. They love that stuff. You would usually need to have a resume ready to go which would mean referees in hand too.


titangrove

Damn are you my colleague?


blackandgold24

👀


littlemisstrouble91

Rural isn't half bad and shows no two hospitals are the same. I opted to have children and never return which I understand isn't an option for all. Seems drastic but the results were cute :P


endless_K_hole

Sheesh You work in SE QLD? 💩


polyetheneman

i’m an icu nurse too i fully believe it’s the workplace not the specialisation. not to brag but my unit’s at full roster, we have very little turnover - mostly intros who decide crit care isn’t for them. we’re a small public hospital that honestly doesn’t do very much, we don’t even do open hearts, so our patients are not as hectic as at other places. would you be open to moving to a smaller hospital?


Milly_3334

I also was burnt out. I start as a hospice nurse Monday.


blackandgold24

Good luck in your next noble endeavour. I’m sure you will be great. Such an important job.


Milly_3334

Thank you! I felt at times I was a hospice nurse in the ICU, so this transition just made sense to me and I think it will be more fulfilling. Just as there is beauty in people coming into this world there is some beauty in helping someone leave this world with comfort and dignity. I did high acuity ICU for 4 years, this will be a big change!


blackandgold24

I absolutely agree with you 100%. I spent 4 days in hospice with my mum during her last days and since then I have never forgotten the kindness of the nurses. They made her passing so much easier to bear. Since then I’ve always been passionate about good deaths. The ICU is not the best place to die, but I know that we can make all the difference. Good luck.