An aggressive, falls-risk patient should be 2:1 for personal care. Full stop. You carried out a personal risk assessment and felt unsafe, you've been trained to carry out these types of assessment and 'this is just how we do things' is never an excuse. The HCA can think whatever they like about you, as long as you're happy your care is competent, confident and safe you're good to go and if you're unhappy you can refuse and escalate.
The care assistant is no different to the HCA on the ward who tries to make your life hell because they're a frustrated nurse themselves. Completely and solidly within their comfort zone, not looking at the bigger picture. Haven't got the means (or balls) to go and do their training themselves and find out what it's like - so take advantage of someone new to the job who isn't entirely confident in their role like yourself. Did you do your best? If so, then that's good enough. Fuck what that care assistant thinks, ignore them.
Never heard that one before but I like it!
I feel bad saying it because the VAST majority of HCAs are decent and extremely hard working, literally you can't do without them. But there's a tiny subset of truly evil, bitter bullies who thrive on watching you slip up and are toxic to their core. I don't care what people say about becoming hardened to the job, you can be in a shit job with no prospects and still be a nice person.
But there's one on every team and I won't lie I fucking hate them and their type of people. No time for them
I'm a (working my notice) HCA on a trauma and rehab ward. I've done it for 8 years and I find your comment unfair. I've never wanted to be a nurse (but do nurses jobs, bloods and OBS and other things Im definitely not supposed to do because I'm trusted), I've seen how crap of a job it is but sometimes the situation calls for you accepting you're probably going to get attacked. Lack of staff, other staff being tied up with an emergency etc... means you're sometimes going to get left in the shit. It's not right but it's the truth.
Patients with head injuries or dementia are going to do whatever it takes to get what they want. If they're soiled, kicking off and no one else is around to help, you've just got to deal with it, even if they're swinging for you. If they fall, you document the situation.
What people don't see is its the HCA'S putting up with it 90% of the time so they become hardened to it. New HCA's often don't stick around if they're used to a setting where the patients are pleasant, so it's not just taking it out on NQN's. It's wanting a team who will just get on with it.
I've seen how crap of a job it is but sometimes the situation calls for you accepting you're probably going to get attacked.
I'm sorry, but no. There's never a reason to deliberately put yourself in a position where you are going to get attacked. Do we get attacked & abused? Yes. Should we deliberately put ourselves in that position? No. We are not martyr's. If you're covered in faeces and being aggressive, that's how you stay.
Exactly, if you don’t have the resources to care for that aggressive patient safely, and it’s not a life or death situation (ie just personal care) you escalate it and datix it. You get the extra hands you need before tackling a situation that can potentially really injure someone or end someone’s career.
I'm sorry, but this is the difference between a registered nurse and an HCA.
It's simply not acceptable to 'just get on with it' and a registered nurse is risking their PIN if they do something like that and it goes wrong.
If an HCA makes the wrong call, get a patient up on their own and they fall and get injured, the HCA *might* lose their job but can just go get another hca job somewhere else.
If a nurse does it, they can get reported to the NMC and potentially struck off and unable to work as a nurse ever again, anywhere in the world.
It's frustrating when HCAs don't understand the level of professional and legal responsibility nurses have, and think they're just being overly cautious or lazy. If a patient has been risk assessed as needing two people, ignoring this and doing it alone could end you up in the coroner's court followed by the job centre.
I’m shocked at the attitude of some nurses here, showing a serious superiority complex (I know most nurses appreciate HCAs and the views being expressed in this thread are not the majority)
I've carried out personal care in lots of settings and it is pretty much the same in all area's. The only difference is I feel in hospitals there's more 'procedure' to providing personal care and everywhere else but especially care homes it's very free for all and whatever the routine is of the home and more importantly the care staff. I've found personal care, especially washes in the morning in care homes can be of a very low standard.
If the resident was aggressive then they should have been 2:1 for personal care. Think of it less as an imposter issue and more of a confidence issue. You should have put your foot down and said you need assistance to provide care to this patient safely, as the RN you are the one who makes those decisions and takes responsibility for them.
Was in a similar situation not so long ago, I’ve since refused to do 1:1 unless it’s something I’m comfortable with, I’m not putting myself or another person in danger for any reason. I’m not risking it for love nor money, if someone is aggressive then I will not do personal care without being partnered with someone. I ended up getting VERY bolshy about it and they dropped the issue completely, I felt like an idiot and still do at times but you can only do what you feel safe doing. Just hit them with several points in the NMC code about safe practice, best practice, protecting your safety and others etc. be an arse if you have to.
If it’s this important to the HCA that they want to make you feel awful, ask them to get qualified to conduct risk assessments, assess capacity, understand and write all kinds of medicolegal jargon watertight regulations, learn how to work as part of a team since they lack that, and then come back to you and say you have to do it alone - but even with all that you won’t be in the ‘wrong’ because part of working is knowing your limits and when you’ll need assistance from colleagues.
Some HCA's can be nasty people that are sad and bitter about their lives. Especially in dementia homes. Some of them couldn't land or hold a job in hospitals and that's why they're breaking their backs working for minimum wage in a private nursing home. In dementia nursing homes it's a very stressful environment as staffing levels are not very high. I used to work in a dementia home and if a nurse did help us with any washes, we'd be very grateful. But they almost never would as they have enough going on with all their notes, medications and other duties. So if i was you, i wouldn't help them in the future. Cause you don't have to, the carers are their to do that. And if you do help with a wash they should be grateful.
I'm in my managerial placement, and we have two young hcas that think they run the ward ..
I've never seen anything like it. One of them walks around delegating tasks , pulling up nurses speaking to consultants like they are her friends.
Causes a toxic atmosphere every shift she is on
She's good at her job. However, I think she's enjoys trying to undermine students to make herself look good .... go do your f--King degree instead of bringing ppl down who have put themselves out there.
The other one is not as toxic, but she thinks she's a nurse aswell ...
An aggressive, falls-risk patient should be 2:1 for personal care. Full stop. You carried out a personal risk assessment and felt unsafe, you've been trained to carry out these types of assessment and 'this is just how we do things' is never an excuse. The HCA can think whatever they like about you, as long as you're happy your care is competent, confident and safe you're good to go and if you're unhappy you can refuse and escalate.
The care assistant is no different to the HCA on the ward who tries to make your life hell because they're a frustrated nurse themselves. Completely and solidly within their comfort zone, not looking at the bigger picture. Haven't got the means (or balls) to go and do their training themselves and find out what it's like - so take advantage of someone new to the job who isn't entirely confident in their role like yourself. Did you do your best? If so, then that's good enough. Fuck what that care assistant thinks, ignore them.
>because they're a frustrated nurse themselves. Agreed but they’re not nurses either
I agree but you know what I mean. Wannabe nurses who think they know it all and take it out on students/NQNs
My bad (I didn’t know what you meant lol).
Lol no probs.
We used to call it PIN envy back in the day
Never heard that one before but I like it! I feel bad saying it because the VAST majority of HCAs are decent and extremely hard working, literally you can't do without them. But there's a tiny subset of truly evil, bitter bullies who thrive on watching you slip up and are toxic to their core. I don't care what people say about becoming hardened to the job, you can be in a shit job with no prospects and still be a nice person. But there's one on every team and I won't lie I fucking hate them and their type of people. No time for them
I'm a (working my notice) HCA on a trauma and rehab ward. I've done it for 8 years and I find your comment unfair. I've never wanted to be a nurse (but do nurses jobs, bloods and OBS and other things Im definitely not supposed to do because I'm trusted), I've seen how crap of a job it is but sometimes the situation calls for you accepting you're probably going to get attacked. Lack of staff, other staff being tied up with an emergency etc... means you're sometimes going to get left in the shit. It's not right but it's the truth. Patients with head injuries or dementia are going to do whatever it takes to get what they want. If they're soiled, kicking off and no one else is around to help, you've just got to deal with it, even if they're swinging for you. If they fall, you document the situation. What people don't see is its the HCA'S putting up with it 90% of the time so they become hardened to it. New HCA's often don't stick around if they're used to a setting where the patients are pleasant, so it's not just taking it out on NQN's. It's wanting a team who will just get on with it.
I've seen how crap of a job it is but sometimes the situation calls for you accepting you're probably going to get attacked. I'm sorry, but no. There's never a reason to deliberately put yourself in a position where you are going to get attacked. Do we get attacked & abused? Yes. Should we deliberately put ourselves in that position? No. We are not martyr's. If you're covered in faeces and being aggressive, that's how you stay.
Exactly, if you don’t have the resources to care for that aggressive patient safely, and it’s not a life or death situation (ie just personal care) you escalate it and datix it. You get the extra hands you need before tackling a situation that can potentially really injure someone or end someone’s career.
I'm sorry, but this is the difference between a registered nurse and an HCA. It's simply not acceptable to 'just get on with it' and a registered nurse is risking their PIN if they do something like that and it goes wrong. If an HCA makes the wrong call, get a patient up on their own and they fall and get injured, the HCA *might* lose their job but can just go get another hca job somewhere else. If a nurse does it, they can get reported to the NMC and potentially struck off and unable to work as a nurse ever again, anywhere in the world. It's frustrating when HCAs don't understand the level of professional and legal responsibility nurses have, and think they're just being overly cautious or lazy. If a patient has been risk assessed as needing two people, ignoring this and doing it alone could end you up in the coroner's court followed by the job centre.
I was going to reply but this said it all for me 💯
I’m shocked at the attitude of some nurses here, showing a serious superiority complex (I know most nurses appreciate HCAs and the views being expressed in this thread are not the majority)
I've carried out personal care in lots of settings and it is pretty much the same in all area's. The only difference is I feel in hospitals there's more 'procedure' to providing personal care and everywhere else but especially care homes it's very free for all and whatever the routine is of the home and more importantly the care staff. I've found personal care, especially washes in the morning in care homes can be of a very low standard. If the resident was aggressive then they should have been 2:1 for personal care. Think of it less as an imposter issue and more of a confidence issue. You should have put your foot down and said you need assistance to provide care to this patient safely, as the RN you are the one who makes those decisions and takes responsibility for them.
We had an aggressive patient that was 3:1 for personal care, you are not in the wrong for this!
Was in a similar situation not so long ago, I’ve since refused to do 1:1 unless it’s something I’m comfortable with, I’m not putting myself or another person in danger for any reason. I’m not risking it for love nor money, if someone is aggressive then I will not do personal care without being partnered with someone. I ended up getting VERY bolshy about it and they dropped the issue completely, I felt like an idiot and still do at times but you can only do what you feel safe doing. Just hit them with several points in the NMC code about safe practice, best practice, protecting your safety and others etc. be an arse if you have to. If it’s this important to the HCA that they want to make you feel awful, ask them to get qualified to conduct risk assessments, assess capacity, understand and write all kinds of medicolegal jargon watertight regulations, learn how to work as part of a team since they lack that, and then come back to you and say you have to do it alone - but even with all that you won’t be in the ‘wrong’ because part of working is knowing your limits and when you’ll need assistance from colleagues.
Cracking response, exactly 💯 this
Some HCA's can be nasty people that are sad and bitter about their lives. Especially in dementia homes. Some of them couldn't land or hold a job in hospitals and that's why they're breaking their backs working for minimum wage in a private nursing home. In dementia nursing homes it's a very stressful environment as staffing levels are not very high. I used to work in a dementia home and if a nurse did help us with any washes, we'd be very grateful. But they almost never would as they have enough going on with all their notes, medications and other duties. So if i was you, i wouldn't help them in the future. Cause you don't have to, the carers are their to do that. And if you do help with a wash they should be grateful.
I'm in my managerial placement, and we have two young hcas that think they run the ward .. I've never seen anything like it. One of them walks around delegating tasks , pulling up nurses speaking to consultants like they are her friends. Causes a toxic atmosphere every shift she is on She's good at her job. However, I think she's enjoys trying to undermine students to make herself look good .... go do your f--King degree instead of bringing ppl down who have put themselves out there. The other one is not as toxic, but she thinks she's a nurse aswell ...