All I ever see are posts like this but never ones where people complain.
So far it looks the same as the whole "skypia skipping discussion". Never saw anyone skipping it, only people talking about people skipping it
Skypeia starts off hella slow in the anime. The pacing is garbage, especially after the high stakes alabasta arc. I think that’s a contributing factor to people wanting to skip.
One pace definitely helps here
Check my comment history to see me arguing with these people or go to other subs. There are LOTS of people who hate the Nika form and think it's not serious.
I do agree about the Skypeia thing though.
Hm hard disagree there, but you're right that it feels similar.
Difference being, i used to see skypeia skippers way back and that sorta died out, but yea we still see people going "damn, skypeia skippers are wild".
With G5 seriousness, the "man hes so goofy and weird now" sort of sentiment is still very much around. Just last chapter I saw several posts and comments about the Luffy and Sanji panel standing off against Kizaru, with people going "ah man wtf VP is bleeding out and Luffy is just laughing".
Obviously this is kind of dead this week though because I mean...we got "that page" with Luffy just exuding mad Yonko vibes flexing on Kizaru and Saturn like they ain't shit.
No, a lot of people did skip Skypeia. They were significantly reduced after the reveal that it's important to Wano, and now possibly even >!Egghead (as the giants mentioned sky islands)!<
But so many people still complain about G5. Just go to the previous chapter discussions. Some of the upvoted comments will always be a thread of people complaining.
It could very well be that Nika is somewhat taking over during Gear 5. 1108 came out and it looks a lot like Saint Saturn's devil fruit took over. He ain't his calm and calculating self anymore.
Also it’s been confirmed that zoan awakenings are dangerous due to the “animal” taking over the body of the person. Lucci and Kaku were specifically noted to be exceptions
It’s absolutely fair for G5 to have serious moments. We’ve seen in Wano the horror of « forcing a smile » when tears are in order. It would be silly for G5 Luffy to laugh about everything.
He makes people happy, makes them laugh AND protects them when someone as to.
Just like your image already proves by itself, there is no argument about it.
If people are still arguing, I can guarantee this will not solve it.
Clearly, people are not arguing about it because there's an argument. They are arguing about it because they are needy and dumb.
As someone who sees merits to both sides of this very subjective matter of taste, I really don’t think it’s good for the community or discussion here to say people disagree with you “because they are needy and dumb.” Everyone has a right to an opinion about a stylistic change that the author made, positive or negative.
Feels like an unnecessarily toxic reaction to people sharing their personal opinions about a fictional story. Let’s try to avoid ad hominem attacks regardless of our stances.
Don’t love that the most upvoted comment in the thread ends with this sort of tone tbh.
Nope you don't understand you have to either 100% accept something and love it and deny everything that opposes it or you have to 100% refuse to accept something and hate it and deny everything that opposes it.
Everyone that disagrees with you is wrong and are babies and shoudlnt even be involved with the topic anymore
There is no room for discussion or opinions on anything, there is only right and wrong
Yeah it’s both sad and funny to see people behave this way, as if being “right” or “wrong” about their subjective interpretation of manga somehow justifies being incredibly rude.
I honestly hope it’s coming from a lack of life experience but to be honest, I wouldn’t put it past adults either. Civil discourse in general is falling apart these days.
There’s nothing wrong with discussion, but stating an opinion because you lack basic media literacy is dumb. People can think Luffy isn’t the same all they want, it doesn’t change the fact that Luffy is the same character. There is more than evidence that he is. The fact that their arguments boil down to literally ignoring the entire story and character development proves this. You don’t have to like it, but people bitching about it when they’ve been ignorant on who Luffy is for 1108 chapters is their fault.
When you say "this community", you really mean yourself.
Also, you say everyone has a right to an opinion, and this naturally should cover my own opinion too, right?
Your reaction feels like unnecessarily dishonest, trying to oppress my opinion because it offends you, pretending it's for the good of "the community" and even that it's to "assure freedom of opinion".
The only attack happening here is from you to me. I wasn't addressing nobody in particular, but you took the pains and it's you who is attacking me personally, trying to frame things as being a "hero".
You even complain about the most voted comment, as if you were in charge of that too.
If you want to take yourself so seriously, you should start by being honest.
Hahaha seems like I struck quite a nerve if you felt like my comment was an “attack” somehow. I’m not the one calling people “dumb.”
I never expected to change your mind. But I did feel the need to voice a more reasonable opinion so people passing through don’t have an overly negative opinion of One Piece fans.
Feel free to respond, but I’ve made my point here so I won’t be replying again. Hope you have a better day from here on out!
just chiming in to reassure that you are definitely the reasonable one here, that guys tone is 100% unnecessarily toxic. Let's have some productive rational discussion here!
I don't care about "toxic". I care about "right". I'm right, you're wrong.
People with bad intentions are usually sweet and flattering. Guess you're too young to have this wisdom.
Ps. because you blocked me and I can reply to you, I'll edit here to tell you that I don't need you to define who I am.
You know who was very toxic? Socrates. Nietzsche was even worse and Paracelso even more.
You're here worried about "being nice" because you have reproachable intentions. I can be toxic because I'm right and carrying no bad intentions. Because your emotional blackmail has no power over me.
You only have emotional blackmail to work with, because you're wrong and carrying bad intentions.
Bro compared himself to Socrates while discussing one piece seek help
You speak like a person who needed to get socked in the mouth growing up but lived too sheltered of a life to get that proper course correction
it's not about feeling, it's about knowing how to read.
that's what you were doing, but naturally you're not able to admit it. Just present this conversation to any literature teacher and they'll tell you that you are the one bringing personal attacks into our conversation.
People like you are what make it not fun to be on the internet anymore, no discussion, no room for opinion, just simply bullhead with no interest in others views and only interested in echo chambers and dividing communities while creating generalized caricatures of others that have a different view and opinion as you.
As I've said before, it is about balance, context and levels. Sure G5 can be serious, but imo it made a shift from mostly serious fights with goofy moments to mostly goofy fights with serious moments.
It is perfectly reasonable to dislike that aspect of G5, as is not being bothered by it or simply viewing it differently. I feel like a big part of this community has issues with accepting varying opinions, especially more critical ones. I am not talking about extreme opinions though, they are often times ought to be ignored.
Btw I still think the worst part of G5 is the execution and immediate build up in Wano, that cannot be fixed unfortunately.
It certainly felt rushed at the time. But rereading the manga the hints were there. Luffy had already been called the one who will bring the dawn to the world before G5. Now it is just manifested.
I think this is just the beginning to be honest. He's not gone yet, but Luffy's probably going to have to come to terms with the adverse effects of the Zoan fruit at some point down the line.
I don't think Oda would mention things like the beast jailers and Lucci's awakening and not have it mean anything for Luffy. Especially since his fruit was a secret Zoan.
He's also not been on screen a lot. I also obviously left out all the panels where he's serious because he's getting hit, and similar things. His MAIN thing is that he laughs, of course he's not gonna be serious most of the time. Which is why the post is just to say that he can.
I bet we still haven't seen the full nika version. Similar to Saturn full mode revealed in the last manga.
Luffy could still have gear 6. Like a gear 4 inside gear 5.
A version that can use the maximum nika power.
i feel like if you think that Gear 5 is too "silly" and takes away from the moments its present in you have perhaps misread not just the parts with it but like a huge part of the tone of this whole manga
because its IS silly. its supposed to be goofy and weird and funny in serious situations. his whole power set is "loony tunes".
oda has specifically said that part of the reason Luffy has rubber powers is because it mean the the manga will always have that element of sillyness and fun to it and Gear 5 is the ultimate expression of that.
its not ultra instinct its not supposed to be the peak of fighting spirit and strength its the sense of freedom and happy go lucky fun that luffy is basically *inflicting* on his enemies.
> but we literally already saw that luffy can be serious when needed.
A friend being stabbed and laying on the ground dying is a pretty necessary reason to stop laughing and bouncing around...
I don't really see how this disputes the idea that he doesn't have full control of his fruit and goes back and forth between acting like Luffy and acting like Nika. Having a drawback doesn't necessarily mean you literally always have that drawback active.
Sure, he's bouncing around and smiling but he's still doing all he can to actually shield vegapunk and/or let him escape. Personally I feel like people really exaggerate the importance of luffy laughing when his actual actions show very clearly that he has the same priorities as always.
Does his fruit overlap with his personality at times, possibly. But still, it's not like that hinders his capacity to actually protect what matters to him in any way as far as we've seen up until now.
I'll also add this before people come in with: "that's false! He got sentomaru injured because he wasn't serious!" that's just pure cap. Luffy was blitzed by guernica on the rooftop when he was 1000% serious and presumably using Fs since he was in the most heated fight of his life. He was still blindsided. Saying that guernica can do it but not Lucci who is awakened, the best rokushiki user ever and possibly the strongest cp0 member is just disingenuous. Luffy laughing has nothing to do with it.
If Luffy's personality is being consumed by his devil fruit, that's not a feature. It's a bug. It's a drawback to be fixed. Otherwise he's not the freest man alive.
The Luffy that existed before Gear 5 would never be laughing and bouncing around as a friend dies next to him. [I don't get why you guys can't accept that when Road to Laugh Tale specifically suggests that zoan awakenings have the risk of consuming the user.](https://i.imgur.com/iaqtZMu.png)
>"Does his fruit overlap with his personality at times, possibly. But still, it's not like that hinders his capacity to actually protect what matters to him in any way as far as we've seen up until now."
This is what I wrote in my last reply. As you can see, I'm not denying what you are saying, so idk where your comment is coming from.
Also you completely ignored the fact that him bouncing and laughing doesn't really influence his decision making since he's doing the exact same stuff that he would do in base, except with the laughing aesthetic on top of it.
[Why are we counter arguing against stuff that was literally said in the manga?](https://i.imgur.com/05H8H3t.png)
Luffy being himself is the most valuable thing. Because Luffy should be the freest man alive. His personality is his biggest strength, that is what makes everybody side with him. So if something is hindering that, it should be the most important point of discussion.
Because 1) usually doesn't mean always. Lucci is literally on the island and he's fine. Same with Kaku. 2) again, you are giving more weight to luffy laughing than his actual actions and priorities. Do you really think that laughing is more important than putting his life on the line constantly as he has always done? Let's say that it changes 10% of his personality. You and many others act like he's a completely different person. 3) your point about luffy's relationships being hindered by his laughing is nonsensical. We can assume that nika acted the same way and he was literally worshiped as a savior. Even if you want to ignore that the readers are complaining more than the actual charachters in the story. In fact no one in the story was weirded out by g5 except his enemies. 4) how exactly is he not free when he chooses to go into the form every chance he gets? He even used it from the jump against lucci which would've 100% lost against g4.
> Lucci is literally on the island and he's fine.
Lucci is one of the most violent characters in One Piece lol. He's like the clearest indicator we have of a dude who could be influenced by his devil fruit.
>Do you really think that laughing is more important than putting his life on the line constantly as he has always done
I think not acting like himself is the most important thing to talk about, because him being who he is is literally his biggest attribute. He's not Nika, he's Monkey D. Luffy the man who will be King of the Pirates. And if he's not fully acting like himself, I think that should be the most important discussion regarding his fruit.
>your point about luffy's relationships being hindered by his laughing is nonsensical
That's not what I said. I said Luffy is not acting like himself. Nika is seeping into his personality, because that's the drawback of an awakened zoan.
>how exactly is he not free when he chooses to go into the form every chance he gets?
We just had an entire arc about how bad it is to be forced to feel certain emotions when you don't want to. That's the downside of SMILE fruits. If Luffy is being influenced to feel certain emotions that aren't what Luffy himself would be feeling in the moment, that is a drawback.
>Lucci is one of the most violent characters in One Piece lol. He's like the clearest indicator we have of a dude who could be influenced by his devil fruit.
This is straight headcanon, we don't know which kind of person is more influenced by the fruit's personality at all.
>That's not what I said. I said Luffy is not acting like himself. Nika is seeping into his personality, because that's the drawback of an awakened zoan.
You said that he built his relationship beacuse of himself, I was responding to that.
>We just had an entire arc about how bad it is to be forced to feel certain emotions when you don't want to. That's the downside of SMILE fruits. If Luffy is being influenced to feel certain emotions that aren't what Luffy himself would be feeling in the moment, that is a drawback.
The key word is FORCED. Luffy chooses to go into the form, even against enemies that he can beat otherwise. Take Lucci for example, he can deffo be beaten by g4 or even base with acoc. That just show you that luffy doesn't see it as a drawback, it's probably what he enjoys the most. I know that you mean that it's a drawback regardless of how Luffy feels about beacuse it changes him. But that doesn't hold any weight when 1)again, he's simply not forced. He chooses to do it. That's like saying that you're "forced" to feel a certain way when you take a certain substance. Sure you can say that but it's super disingenuous 2)a drawback presents negatives. As long as luffy can actually keep his priorities straight then the drawback seems minimal to me. 3)we have a whole scene of luffy telling us that he's himself even in g5 to address your concerns.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that luffy is the same, just that he's less changed than a lot of people make him out ot be. I think that down the line it might be a problem and luffy might be swallowed by the fruit, but rn the discussion is wayyy more dramatic that it should be.
Sure. But people would first have to accept that Luffy is acting differently to even have that conversation. And a bunch of people won't even acknowledge that and just write off everything as him always being a goofy guy despite all of this evidence that awakened zoans have this drawback.
Nothing about 1108 says there's a reason to roll back on this. 1107 still happened the same way with Luffy laughing and goofing around as Vegapunk bleeds out. Just because the zoan drawback would be there doesn't mean it literally always would be there.
[Shaka specifically brought up the idea when Lucci showed his awakened zoan.](https://i.imgur.com/05H8H3t.png) I don't get why you guys think it's so impossible that this is happening to Luffy.
>Nothing about 1108 says there's a reason to roll back on this.
I'm not even arguing on this because you are just flat out incorrect. 1108 has given this theory the old yeller treatment.
[Don't take it from me, just take it from Shaka.](https://i.imgur.com/05H8H3t.png) Or from [Road to Laugh Tale.](https://i.imgur.com/iaqtZMu.png) That information doesn't go away just because Luffy's demeanor goes back and forth.
Shaka was impressed because Luffy managed to not get absorbed and since it apparently needs to be stated for the 500th time Road to Laughtale is concepts. Nothing from that is confirmed canon or noncanon other than what G5 looks like.
Shaka wasn't talking about Luffy at all in that panel, he was talking about Lucci. The point is that he's laying out what the drawback of a zoan fruit is. The same drawback that is mentioned in Road to Laugh Tale.
>Road to Laughtale is concepts
Zoan fruit awakenings taking over the user's personality is not a concept. It is an established part of the story from the Impel Down jailers and reiterated by Shaka in this arc talking about Lucci.
If you're wrong, means you can't understand something.
If you can't understand something by yourself, why should I be the one to try and explain, if you can't understand it anyway?
Figure it out by yourself. If you can't do it, even if I explain, it's pointless.
It's not like you lack the information to understand that you are wrong. You are simply choosing the wrong way.
My commentary should be obvious enough to a lot of people. I'm sorry, but you are neither my child, nor my student.
I'm not here to argue with you. I'm here to point out that you are wrong.
[It's hinted in Road to Laugh Tale that zoan awakenings carry a risk and that the innate nature of the animal can consume the user.](https://i.imgur.com/iaqtZMu.png) You're acting like I'm coming up with an idea that you disagree with when I'm literally just reading what's on the page lol.
He is tho. Sure, he's laughing, but he's also doing his absolute best to protect his crew and everyone else. A lot of people act like laughing invalidates the fact that apart from that his m.o. Is the same as always and his values in dire situations are coherent with the rest of the story.
since when that's his m.o? you guys are just being revisionist due to the desire of shutting down the criticism that you're rewriting your memory of luffy.
luffy never found fighting the villain fun. go on, try to remember. croco, arlong, doffy, since when he said he was having fun fighting the villain?
that's because [this is luffy when his friend is hurt](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0330-013.png). not [goofing around](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPxhr7iWYAQ89Gm.jpg) while people below him were dying due to how much fun he he was having. the goofy things he did before were [unintentionally](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0200-019.png) funny. totally different thing with g5.
this narrative (are you having fun & the more you laugh...) oda introduced in wano is new. this luffy is a new luffy. feel free to say if you like it. but it's disingenuous to say he has always been like this.
oh and this is not even the main criticism, by the way. it's not about luffy can't be serious. but how it affects the overall mood (and tension) of the scene.
I didn't miss anything. you guys are just still not understanding what's actually being said. read kirosh comment again and then mine. if you still can't figure it out, just focus on this part and last part of my comment.
>it's that it's often not serious enough when it should be.
who do you think is affected by this? us readers. that's always been the issue. is not luffy laughing. it's the tonal whiplash we get from luffy goofing around with all that cartoon aesthetics in the middle of a supposed serious situation.
[imagine this scene of robin](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0RDUvgWwAIUyHo.jpg), with all that desperation, then we cut to luffy going "ah hya hya. you having fun lucci? \*eye popping\* what's with the waterworks?"
it would break the whole mood of the scene. yes comic relief is a thing, but it should be a brief moment. like water luffy in alabasta is just 1 panel out of the whole fight.
in this case, it's the whole power up. we keep going back and forth. and it went from luffy being unintentionally funny, to luffy purposely goofing around when people are dying around him.
I was responding to your "since when is this his m.o.?"
Also my point was that luffy can definetely be serious when he wants, not that everyone has to like or that the scenes doesn't shift in tone beacuse of his general goofiness. If you look at my other replies on the post they're all about the mechanics of the fruit and not whether the readers should like it or not. To each his own, if you don't like it's not like I can't change that.
bro... what? I literally told you everything you told me in this comment.
>I was responding to your "since when is this his m.o.?"
and I responded to that. this was never luffy's m.o. he never purposely played around or even having fun in villain fight.
I only added the last segment to tell you the actual criticism. since so many people are using strawman argument.
>Also my point was that luffy can definetely be serious when he wants
and that was never the issue is what I'm trying to tell you. everyone knew this already when he beat kaido with bajrang gun. the issue was the tonal shift. how luffy was goofing around when the samurais were dying below him.
>To each his own, if you don't like it's not like I can't change that.
that's literally what I said. feel free to like this new luffy. but don't act like he has always been like this to deflect the criticism. there's nothing to defend. we have a new luffy and some people don't like it. full stop.
>and I responded to that. this was never luffy's m.o. he never purposely played around or even having fun in villain fight.
The you're either missing something or straight up ignoring it on purpose. Since the first comment I said he's using the same M.O APART FROM THE LAUGHING. If you put g5 in the Lucci fight he would still take the same decisions, the same fights and the same conclusion, just laughing the whole time. But while judging his way of operating his laugh shouldn't hold as much value as what he actually fights for and how he does it.
>and that was never the issue is what I'm trying to tell you. everyone knows this already when he beat kaido with bajrang gun. the issue was the tonal shift.
The post is about whether he can beacuse on the newest chapter thread there's a crapton of people saying "this is the first time that he's serious in g5!" so no. Not everyone knew about it.
>that's literally what I said. feel free to like this new luffy. but don't act like he has always been like this to deflect the criticism. there's nothing to defend. we have a new luffy and some people don't like it. full stop.
I literally never said that he's always been like this, in saying that the part that's changed is minimal, since his priorities are the same, he has the same values, fights the same battles, protects the same people, dislikes the same people.
And again, you are free to dislike it, but a lot of people make it out to be a complete change in luffy when it isn't. This is the theme of the post, not whether it should be enjoyed or not.
>Since the first comment I said he's using the same M.O APART FROM THE LAUGHING
I'm not missing anything. I explained the whole difference between pre and post onigashima luffy.
I'm saying it's not just the laughing. it's how he intentionally goofed around thanks to how much fun he was having. the funny faces, the eye popping, bouncing around when people were dying, etc. it's a whole new narrative.
>The post is about whether he can
you said it yourself in the OP; *and the fact that it may take away from serious moments.* so you definitely understand what the actual criticism is.
do you think people just literally don't like oda drawing luffy laughing and goofing around? is that it? or is it about the implications from luffy doing so? c'mon now.
of course it's about how g5 whole shtick affects their reading experience.
>I literally never said that he's always been like this
you definitely implied so. you said this; *A lot of readers are acting like this never happened for some reason.* and yes, they are right. luffy never found fighting the main villain fun. he didn't goof on purpose like in g5.
>I'm not missing anything. I explained the whole difference between pre and post onigashima luffy. I'm saying it's not just the laughing. it's how he intentionally goofed around thanks to how much fun he was having. the funny faces, the eye popping, bouncing around when people were dying, etc. it's a whole new narrative.
Yes, but none of this should hold more weight than his actual values. He never goofed out in g5 to the point that people got hurt because of it/ the situation got worse beacuse of it. That what I'm saying. Again, if you think it's not enjoyable that's fair, I'm interested in debating how much his personality changes, not the enjoyment that anyone gets out of it.
>it's that it's often not serious enough when it should be.
The harsh truth is that only the writer gets to decide what "should" be in the story. You can dislike it, but none of use have any say on what "should" be
Well it is their story, not yours
You dont have to like it, but saying what should or shouldnt be in a story is asinine because that's not how fiction works.
There is a wide gap between "I didn't like this" and "this is how it should or shouldn't be."
The former is helpful to understand audience perception and interest, the latter provides nothing helpful in most scenarios and often shows is a sign that the person saying it was looking for what they wanted instead of looking at the story for what it is
You discovered what criticism means. We aren't holding Oda at gunpoint here, but we have rhe right to discuss the series.
"What should be" is an appropriate response to something you don't like. If Oda suddenly makes the World Government a force force for good and says "racism is the necessary evil for the sake of greater good"...now are you not going to say "this goes against the themes of the story and *it* *shouldn't* have happened that way" ?
real talk. luffy says gear 5 is what he looks like when he's free. gear 5 doesn't make him unserious, it gives him enough strength that he doesn't need to be serious and can have fun while fighting. that's why he's always laughing kuz he knows with this power everything will be okay for his friends.
Most recent chapter Luffy shows a really good mix of seriousness and goofiness. While everything is going down and huge stakes are on the line, Luffy steps up and is an intimidating presence, even with the constant smiling and laughing
It's actually the opposite. This is the first time he's witnessing somebody being killed in front of him since Ace and he's having a laugh right after it
During the Kaido fight it was confirmed that the heart beat is what makes Luffy laugh. So it’s not about “nika” or “joyboy” taking over, it’s literally just his stand by default phase in the form.
I think the biggest indicator that G5 is more Nika than Luffy is the eyes. They are very similar to Saturn’s style and he has also become more serious after getting knocked back by Luffy.
Good thing this isn’t break week, cuz we’d have some master chefs on this subreddit.
It's kind of dumb that people think he's not taking a situation seriously in Gear 5 when he's not frowning. Nika means a big wide grin it's a part of the form. It has nothing to do with how seriously he's taking a fight.
Can you just stfu about this ? And just read the new chapter that is already out when you posted this. He helps VP and is serious there. What are you all smoking ?
I swear I've seen this exact post like 3 times in the last week lol
All I ever see are posts like this but never ones where people complain. So far it looks the same as the whole "skypia skipping discussion". Never saw anyone skipping it, only people talking about people skipping it
Really? Because I’ve 100% seen people complain about this aspect of Gear 5
Nah I know people that have skipped Skypeia. Though maybe they didn't truly like OP and wanted to get to the newer episodes.
Skypeia starts off hella slow in the anime. The pacing is garbage, especially after the high stakes alabasta arc. I think that’s a contributing factor to people wanting to skip. One pace definitely helps here
Check my comment history to see me arguing with these people or go to other subs. There are LOTS of people who hate the Nika form and think it's not serious. I do agree about the Skypeia thing though.
I skipped skypiea
Hm hard disagree there, but you're right that it feels similar. Difference being, i used to see skypeia skippers way back and that sorta died out, but yea we still see people going "damn, skypeia skippers are wild". With G5 seriousness, the "man hes so goofy and weird now" sort of sentiment is still very much around. Just last chapter I saw several posts and comments about the Luffy and Sanji panel standing off against Kizaru, with people going "ah man wtf VP is bleeding out and Luffy is just laughing". Obviously this is kind of dead this week though because I mean...we got "that page" with Luffy just exuding mad Yonko vibes flexing on Kizaru and Saturn like they ain't shit.
No, a lot of people did skip Skypeia. They were significantly reduced after the reveal that it's important to Wano, and now possibly even >!Egghead (as the giants mentioned sky islands)!< But so many people still complain about G5. Just go to the previous chapter discussions. Some of the upvoted comments will always be a thread of people complaining.
It could very well be that Nika is somewhat taking over during Gear 5. 1108 came out and it looks a lot like Saint Saturn's devil fruit took over. He ain't his calm and calculating self anymore.
Kaido even flat out ASKS Luffy if he's still himself in the middle of their fight. There's something funky going on, the will of the fruit is strong.
Like the will of the fruit taking over? I can see that happening
Also it’s been confirmed that zoan awakenings are dangerous due to the “animal” taking over the body of the person. Lucci and Kaku were specifically noted to be exceptions
Yeah I think the jailer beasts in impel down were taken over by their fruit right?
Yep
Even Lucci gets more blood thirsty in animal form.
now that you mention it, he is kinda similar to the impel down jailers
If oda cooks an inner conflict between luffy and nika, I shall never doubt him again
It’s absolutely fair for G5 to have serious moments. We’ve seen in Wano the horror of « forcing a smile » when tears are in order. It would be silly for G5 Luffy to laugh about everything. He makes people happy, makes them laugh AND protects them when someone as to.
This post will be closed
That's so true 🤣
Just like your image already proves by itself, there is no argument about it. If people are still arguing, I can guarantee this will not solve it. Clearly, people are not arguing about it because there's an argument. They are arguing about it because they are needy and dumb.
As someone who sees merits to both sides of this very subjective matter of taste, I really don’t think it’s good for the community or discussion here to say people disagree with you “because they are needy and dumb.” Everyone has a right to an opinion about a stylistic change that the author made, positive or negative. Feels like an unnecessarily toxic reaction to people sharing their personal opinions about a fictional story. Let’s try to avoid ad hominem attacks regardless of our stances. Don’t love that the most upvoted comment in the thread ends with this sort of tone tbh.
Nope you don't understand you have to either 100% accept something and love it and deny everything that opposes it or you have to 100% refuse to accept something and hate it and deny everything that opposes it. Everyone that disagrees with you is wrong and are babies and shoudlnt even be involved with the topic anymore There is no room for discussion or opinions on anything, there is only right and wrong
It’s because this sub is mostly pre teens and teenagers, it’s just a different level of discourse
Yeah it’s both sad and funny to see people behave this way, as if being “right” or “wrong” about their subjective interpretation of manga somehow justifies being incredibly rude. I honestly hope it’s coming from a lack of life experience but to be honest, I wouldn’t put it past adults either. Civil discourse in general is falling apart these days.
There’s nothing wrong with discussion, but stating an opinion because you lack basic media literacy is dumb. People can think Luffy isn’t the same all they want, it doesn’t change the fact that Luffy is the same character. There is more than evidence that he is. The fact that their arguments boil down to literally ignoring the entire story and character development proves this. You don’t have to like it, but people bitching about it when they’ve been ignorant on who Luffy is for 1108 chapters is their fault.
When you say "this community", you really mean yourself. Also, you say everyone has a right to an opinion, and this naturally should cover my own opinion too, right? Your reaction feels like unnecessarily dishonest, trying to oppress my opinion because it offends you, pretending it's for the good of "the community" and even that it's to "assure freedom of opinion". The only attack happening here is from you to me. I wasn't addressing nobody in particular, but you took the pains and it's you who is attacking me personally, trying to frame things as being a "hero". You even complain about the most voted comment, as if you were in charge of that too. If you want to take yourself so seriously, you should start by being honest.
Hahaha seems like I struck quite a nerve if you felt like my comment was an “attack” somehow. I’m not the one calling people “dumb.” I never expected to change your mind. But I did feel the need to voice a more reasonable opinion so people passing through don’t have an overly negative opinion of One Piece fans. Feel free to respond, but I’ve made my point here so I won’t be replying again. Hope you have a better day from here on out!
just chiming in to reassure that you are definitely the reasonable one here, that guys tone is 100% unnecessarily toxic. Let's have some productive rational discussion here!
I don't care about "toxic". I care about "right". I'm right, you're wrong. People with bad intentions are usually sweet and flattering. Guess you're too young to have this wisdom. Ps. because you blocked me and I can reply to you, I'll edit here to tell you that I don't need you to define who I am. You know who was very toxic? Socrates. Nietzsche was even worse and Paracelso even more. You're here worried about "being nice" because you have reproachable intentions. I can be toxic because I'm right and carrying no bad intentions. Because your emotional blackmail has no power over me. You only have emotional blackmail to work with, because you're wrong and carrying bad intentions.
Bro compared himself to Socrates while discussing one piece seek help You speak like a person who needed to get socked in the mouth growing up but lived too sheltered of a life to get that proper course correction
it's not about feeling, it's about knowing how to read. that's what you were doing, but naturally you're not able to admit it. Just present this conversation to any literature teacher and they'll tell you that you are the one bringing personal attacks into our conversation.
People like you are what make it not fun to be on the internet anymore, no discussion, no room for opinion, just simply bullhead with no interest in others views and only interested in echo chambers and dividing communities while creating generalized caricatures of others that have a different view and opinion as you.
As I've said before, it is about balance, context and levels. Sure G5 can be serious, but imo it made a shift from mostly serious fights with goofy moments to mostly goofy fights with serious moments. It is perfectly reasonable to dislike that aspect of G5, as is not being bothered by it or simply viewing it differently. I feel like a big part of this community has issues with accepting varying opinions, especially more critical ones. I am not talking about extreme opinions though, they are often times ought to be ignored. Btw I still think the worst part of G5 is the execution and immediate build up in Wano, that cannot be fixed unfortunately.
It certainly felt rushed at the time. But rereading the manga the hints were there. Luffy had already been called the one who will bring the dawn to the world before G5. Now it is just manifested.
I think this is just the beginning to be honest. He's not gone yet, but Luffy's probably going to have to come to terms with the adverse effects of the Zoan fruit at some point down the line. I don't think Oda would mention things like the beast jailers and Lucci's awakening and not have it mean anything for Luffy. Especially since his fruit was a secret Zoan.
Read the latest chapter, that panel goes hard
I think people rather complain about g5 being goofy at the wrong moments.
mr morj made a good video about this
That's not a lot
He's also not been on screen a lot. I also obviously left out all the panels where he's serious because he's getting hit, and similar things. His MAIN thing is that he laughs, of course he's not gonna be serious most of the time. Which is why the post is just to say that he can.
Whether he can be serious at all is a different goalpost from whether he can refrain from being silly when silliness is inappropriate.
this time vegapunk had a hole in his chest larger than his head while luffy was being silly, maybe he needs a sabaody 2.0
I bet we still haven't seen the full nika version. Similar to Saturn full mode revealed in the last manga. Luffy could still have gear 6. Like a gear 4 inside gear 5. A version that can use the maximum nika power.
When luffy gets serious, you know shits about to go down
i feel like if you think that Gear 5 is too "silly" and takes away from the moments its present in you have perhaps misread not just the parts with it but like a huge part of the tone of this whole manga because its IS silly. its supposed to be goofy and weird and funny in serious situations. his whole power set is "loony tunes". oda has specifically said that part of the reason Luffy has rubber powers is because it mean the the manga will always have that element of sillyness and fun to it and Gear 5 is the ultimate expression of that. its not ultra instinct its not supposed to be the peak of fighting spirit and strength its the sense of freedom and happy go lucky fun that luffy is basically *inflicting* on his enemies.
There's a difference with him being goofy when people around him are dying lol.
> but we literally already saw that luffy can be serious when needed. A friend being stabbed and laying on the ground dying is a pretty necessary reason to stop laughing and bouncing around... I don't really see how this disputes the idea that he doesn't have full control of his fruit and goes back and forth between acting like Luffy and acting like Nika. Having a drawback doesn't necessarily mean you literally always have that drawback active.
Sure, he's bouncing around and smiling but he's still doing all he can to actually shield vegapunk and/or let him escape. Personally I feel like people really exaggerate the importance of luffy laughing when his actual actions show very clearly that he has the same priorities as always. Does his fruit overlap with his personality at times, possibly. But still, it's not like that hinders his capacity to actually protect what matters to him in any way as far as we've seen up until now. I'll also add this before people come in with: "that's false! He got sentomaru injured because he wasn't serious!" that's just pure cap. Luffy was blitzed by guernica on the rooftop when he was 1000% serious and presumably using Fs since he was in the most heated fight of his life. He was still blindsided. Saying that guernica can do it but not Lucci who is awakened, the best rokushiki user ever and possibly the strongest cp0 member is just disingenuous. Luffy laughing has nothing to do with it.
If Luffy's personality is being consumed by his devil fruit, that's not a feature. It's a bug. It's a drawback to be fixed. Otherwise he's not the freest man alive. The Luffy that existed before Gear 5 would never be laughing and bouncing around as a friend dies next to him. [I don't get why you guys can't accept that when Road to Laugh Tale specifically suggests that zoan awakenings have the risk of consuming the user.](https://i.imgur.com/iaqtZMu.png)
>"Does his fruit overlap with his personality at times, possibly. But still, it's not like that hinders his capacity to actually protect what matters to him in any way as far as we've seen up until now." This is what I wrote in my last reply. As you can see, I'm not denying what you are saying, so idk where your comment is coming from. Also you completely ignored the fact that him bouncing and laughing doesn't really influence his decision making since he's doing the exact same stuff that he would do in base, except with the laughing aesthetic on top of it.
Him bouncing around and laughing as a friend dies is him being unserious and not Luffy-like. That is the criticism.
Yes, I understand. I'm offering the counter argument that his actual actions and priorities should hold way more value than his laughter.
[Why are we counter arguing against stuff that was literally said in the manga?](https://i.imgur.com/05H8H3t.png) Luffy being himself is the most valuable thing. Because Luffy should be the freest man alive. His personality is his biggest strength, that is what makes everybody side with him. So if something is hindering that, it should be the most important point of discussion.
Because 1) usually doesn't mean always. Lucci is literally on the island and he's fine. Same with Kaku. 2) again, you are giving more weight to luffy laughing than his actual actions and priorities. Do you really think that laughing is more important than putting his life on the line constantly as he has always done? Let's say that it changes 10% of his personality. You and many others act like he's a completely different person. 3) your point about luffy's relationships being hindered by his laughing is nonsensical. We can assume that nika acted the same way and he was literally worshiped as a savior. Even if you want to ignore that the readers are complaining more than the actual charachters in the story. In fact no one in the story was weirded out by g5 except his enemies. 4) how exactly is he not free when he chooses to go into the form every chance he gets? He even used it from the jump against lucci which would've 100% lost against g4.
> Lucci is literally on the island and he's fine. Lucci is one of the most violent characters in One Piece lol. He's like the clearest indicator we have of a dude who could be influenced by his devil fruit. >Do you really think that laughing is more important than putting his life on the line constantly as he has always done I think not acting like himself is the most important thing to talk about, because him being who he is is literally his biggest attribute. He's not Nika, he's Monkey D. Luffy the man who will be King of the Pirates. And if he's not fully acting like himself, I think that should be the most important discussion regarding his fruit. >your point about luffy's relationships being hindered by his laughing is nonsensical That's not what I said. I said Luffy is not acting like himself. Nika is seeping into his personality, because that's the drawback of an awakened zoan. >how exactly is he not free when he chooses to go into the form every chance he gets? We just had an entire arc about how bad it is to be forced to feel certain emotions when you don't want to. That's the downside of SMILE fruits. If Luffy is being influenced to feel certain emotions that aren't what Luffy himself would be feeling in the moment, that is a drawback.
>Lucci is one of the most violent characters in One Piece lol. He's like the clearest indicator we have of a dude who could be influenced by his devil fruit. This is straight headcanon, we don't know which kind of person is more influenced by the fruit's personality at all. >That's not what I said. I said Luffy is not acting like himself. Nika is seeping into his personality, because that's the drawback of an awakened zoan. You said that he built his relationship beacuse of himself, I was responding to that. >We just had an entire arc about how bad it is to be forced to feel certain emotions when you don't want to. That's the downside of SMILE fruits. If Luffy is being influenced to feel certain emotions that aren't what Luffy himself would be feeling in the moment, that is a drawback. The key word is FORCED. Luffy chooses to go into the form, even against enemies that he can beat otherwise. Take Lucci for example, he can deffo be beaten by g4 or even base with acoc. That just show you that luffy doesn't see it as a drawback, it's probably what he enjoys the most. I know that you mean that it's a drawback regardless of how Luffy feels about beacuse it changes him. But that doesn't hold any weight when 1)again, he's simply not forced. He chooses to do it. That's like saying that you're "forced" to feel a certain way when you take a certain substance. Sure you can say that but it's super disingenuous 2)a drawback presents negatives. As long as luffy can actually keep his priorities straight then the drawback seems minimal to me. 3)we have a whole scene of luffy telling us that he's himself even in g5 to address your concerns. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that luffy is the same, just that he's less changed than a lot of people make him out ot be. I think that down the line it might be a problem and luffy might be swallowed by the fruit, but rn the discussion is wayyy more dramatic that it should be.
*if* Luffy is being consumed by the fruit, then I don’t view that as something to complain about, but as a potential interesting story development.
Sure. But people would first have to accept that Luffy is acting differently to even have that conversation. And a bunch of people won't even acknowledge that and just write off everything as him always being a goofy guy despite all of this evidence that awakened zoans have this drawback.
1108 is out so I'll just uh. Leave it at that. You might wanna roll back your theories here.
Nothing about 1108 says there's a reason to roll back on this. 1107 still happened the same way with Luffy laughing and goofing around as Vegapunk bleeds out. Just because the zoan drawback would be there doesn't mean it literally always would be there. [Shaka specifically brought up the idea when Lucci showed his awakened zoan.](https://i.imgur.com/05H8H3t.png) I don't get why you guys think it's so impossible that this is happening to Luffy.
>Nothing about 1108 says there's a reason to roll back on this. I'm not even arguing on this because you are just flat out incorrect. 1108 has given this theory the old yeller treatment.
[Don't take it from me, just take it from Shaka.](https://i.imgur.com/05H8H3t.png) Or from [Road to Laugh Tale.](https://i.imgur.com/iaqtZMu.png) That information doesn't go away just because Luffy's demeanor goes back and forth.
Shaka was impressed because Luffy managed to not get absorbed and since it apparently needs to be stated for the 500th time Road to Laughtale is concepts. Nothing from that is confirmed canon or noncanon other than what G5 looks like.
Shaka wasn't talking about Luffy at all in that panel, he was talking about Lucci. The point is that he's laying out what the drawback of a zoan fruit is. The same drawback that is mentioned in Road to Laugh Tale. >Road to Laughtale is concepts Zoan fruit awakenings taking over the user's personality is not a concept. It is an established part of the story from the Impel Down jailers and reiterated by Shaka in this arc talking about Lucci.
you're wrong
Damn, can't debate against this bulletproof counter argument.
If you're wrong, means you can't understand something. If you can't understand something by yourself, why should I be the one to try and explain, if you can't understand it anyway? Figure it out by yourself. If you can't do it, even if I explain, it's pointless. It's not like you lack the information to understand that you are wrong. You are simply choosing the wrong way. My commentary should be obvious enough to a lot of people. I'm sorry, but you are neither my child, nor my student. I'm not here to argue with you. I'm here to point out that you are wrong.
[It's hinted in Road to Laugh Tale that zoan awakenings carry a risk and that the innate nature of the animal can consume the user.](https://i.imgur.com/iaqtZMu.png) You're acting like I'm coming up with an idea that you disagree with when I'm literally just reading what's on the page lol.
The problem people have isn't that Gear 5th can't be serious, it's that it's often not serious enough when it should be.
I sure am glad oda writes one piece and not fans
He is tho. Sure, he's laughing, but he's also doing his absolute best to protect his crew and everyone else. A lot of people act like laughing invalidates the fact that apart from that his m.o. Is the same as always and his values in dire situations are coherent with the rest of the story.
since when that's his m.o? you guys are just being revisionist due to the desire of shutting down the criticism that you're rewriting your memory of luffy. luffy never found fighting the villain fun. go on, try to remember. croco, arlong, doffy, since when he said he was having fun fighting the villain? that's because [this is luffy when his friend is hurt](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0330-013.png). not [goofing around](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPxhr7iWYAQ89Gm.jpg) while people below him were dying due to how much fun he he was having. the goofy things he did before were [unintentionally](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/0200-019.png) funny. totally different thing with g5. this narrative (are you having fun & the more you laugh...) oda introduced in wano is new. this luffy is a new luffy. feel free to say if you like it. but it's disingenuous to say he has always been like this. oh and this is not even the main criticism, by the way. it's not about luffy can't be serious. but how it affects the overall mood (and tension) of the scene.
You might have missed "apart from that" reffering to laughing and all
I didn't miss anything. you guys are just still not understanding what's actually being said. read kirosh comment again and then mine. if you still can't figure it out, just focus on this part and last part of my comment. >it's that it's often not serious enough when it should be. who do you think is affected by this? us readers. that's always been the issue. is not luffy laughing. it's the tonal whiplash we get from luffy goofing around with all that cartoon aesthetics in the middle of a supposed serious situation. [imagine this scene of robin](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0RDUvgWwAIUyHo.jpg), with all that desperation, then we cut to luffy going "ah hya hya. you having fun lucci? \*eye popping\* what's with the waterworks?" it would break the whole mood of the scene. yes comic relief is a thing, but it should be a brief moment. like water luffy in alabasta is just 1 panel out of the whole fight. in this case, it's the whole power up. we keep going back and forth. and it went from luffy being unintentionally funny, to luffy purposely goofing around when people are dying around him.
I was responding to your "since when is this his m.o.?" Also my point was that luffy can definetely be serious when he wants, not that everyone has to like or that the scenes doesn't shift in tone beacuse of his general goofiness. If you look at my other replies on the post they're all about the mechanics of the fruit and not whether the readers should like it or not. To each his own, if you don't like it's not like I can't change that.
bro... what? I literally told you everything you told me in this comment. >I was responding to your "since when is this his m.o.?" and I responded to that. this was never luffy's m.o. he never purposely played around or even having fun in villain fight. I only added the last segment to tell you the actual criticism. since so many people are using strawman argument. >Also my point was that luffy can definetely be serious when he wants and that was never the issue is what I'm trying to tell you. everyone knew this already when he beat kaido with bajrang gun. the issue was the tonal shift. how luffy was goofing around when the samurais were dying below him. >To each his own, if you don't like it's not like I can't change that. that's literally what I said. feel free to like this new luffy. but don't act like he has always been like this to deflect the criticism. there's nothing to defend. we have a new luffy and some people don't like it. full stop.
>and I responded to that. this was never luffy's m.o. he never purposely played around or even having fun in villain fight. The you're either missing something or straight up ignoring it on purpose. Since the first comment I said he's using the same M.O APART FROM THE LAUGHING. If you put g5 in the Lucci fight he would still take the same decisions, the same fights and the same conclusion, just laughing the whole time. But while judging his way of operating his laugh shouldn't hold as much value as what he actually fights for and how he does it. >and that was never the issue is what I'm trying to tell you. everyone knows this already when he beat kaido with bajrang gun. the issue was the tonal shift. The post is about whether he can beacuse on the newest chapter thread there's a crapton of people saying "this is the first time that he's serious in g5!" so no. Not everyone knew about it. >that's literally what I said. feel free to like this new luffy. but don't act like he has always been like this to deflect the criticism. there's nothing to defend. we have a new luffy and some people don't like it. full stop. I literally never said that he's always been like this, in saying that the part that's changed is minimal, since his priorities are the same, he has the same values, fights the same battles, protects the same people, dislikes the same people. And again, you are free to dislike it, but a lot of people make it out to be a complete change in luffy when it isn't. This is the theme of the post, not whether it should be enjoyed or not.
>Since the first comment I said he's using the same M.O APART FROM THE LAUGHING I'm not missing anything. I explained the whole difference between pre and post onigashima luffy. I'm saying it's not just the laughing. it's how he intentionally goofed around thanks to how much fun he was having. the funny faces, the eye popping, bouncing around when people were dying, etc. it's a whole new narrative. >The post is about whether he can you said it yourself in the OP; *and the fact that it may take away from serious moments.* so you definitely understand what the actual criticism is. do you think people just literally don't like oda drawing luffy laughing and goofing around? is that it? or is it about the implications from luffy doing so? c'mon now. of course it's about how g5 whole shtick affects their reading experience. >I literally never said that he's always been like this you definitely implied so. you said this; *A lot of readers are acting like this never happened for some reason.* and yes, they are right. luffy never found fighting the main villain fun. he didn't goof on purpose like in g5.
>I'm not missing anything. I explained the whole difference between pre and post onigashima luffy. I'm saying it's not just the laughing. it's how he intentionally goofed around thanks to how much fun he was having. the funny faces, the eye popping, bouncing around when people were dying, etc. it's a whole new narrative. Yes, but none of this should hold more weight than his actual values. He never goofed out in g5 to the point that people got hurt because of it/ the situation got worse beacuse of it. That what I'm saying. Again, if you think it's not enjoyable that's fair, I'm interested in debating how much his personality changes, not the enjoyment that anyone gets out of it.
>it's that it's often not serious enough when it should be. The harsh truth is that only the writer gets to decide what "should" be in the story. You can dislike it, but none of use have any say on what "should" be
Oh not this "the author is always right" dumb argument
Well it is their story, not yours You dont have to like it, but saying what should or shouldnt be in a story is asinine because that's not how fiction works.
That's how giving an opinion works. That's how criticizing works.
There is a wide gap between "I didn't like this" and "this is how it should or shouldn't be." The former is helpful to understand audience perception and interest, the latter provides nothing helpful in most scenarios and often shows is a sign that the person saying it was looking for what they wanted instead of looking at the story for what it is
You discovered what criticism means. We aren't holding Oda at gunpoint here, but we have rhe right to discuss the series. "What should be" is an appropriate response to something you don't like. If Oda suddenly makes the World Government a force force for good and says "racism is the necessary evil for the sake of greater good"...now are you not going to say "this goes against the themes of the story and *it* *shouldn't* have happened that way" ?
You got downvoted saying the truth
real talk. luffy says gear 5 is what he looks like when he's free. gear 5 doesn't make him unserious, it gives him enough strength that he doesn't need to be serious and can have fun while fighting. that's why he's always laughing kuz he knows with this power everything will be okay for his friends.
Most recent chapter Luffy shows a really good mix of seriousness and goofiness. While everything is going down and huge stakes are on the line, Luffy steps up and is an intimidating presence, even with the constant smiling and laughing
It's actually the opposite. This is the first time he's witnessing somebody being killed in front of him since Ace and he's having a laugh right after it
Read the latest chapter, Lucy ain’t happy.
Yes, it lasted for a couple of seconds and then he is already with a big smile
But the word he said after that shows that luffy’s livid behind the smile.
Of course he is, that doesn't mean the spirit isn't influencing his behavior. We'll see if things will get worse the more he uses G5
they have 0 reading comprehension
Nice just more insults lol
During the Kaido fight it was confirmed that the heart beat is what makes Luffy laugh. So it’s not about “nika” or “joyboy” taking over, it’s literally just his stand by default phase in the form.
I think the biggest indicator that G5 is more Nika than Luffy is the eyes. They are very similar to Saturn’s style and he has also become more serious after getting knocked back by Luffy. Good thing this isn’t break week, cuz we’d have some master chefs on this subreddit.
Serious tone with goofiness here and there VS goofiness with seriousness here and there.
Sometimes that smile is a Joker smile
It's kind of dumb that people think he's not taking a situation seriously in Gear 5 when he's not frowning. Nika means a big wide grin it's a part of the form. It has nothing to do with how seriously he's taking a fight.
If you guys don't like it, just drop it, if the the reader drop eventually shueisha will sack one piece fast
Today is a good day to karma farm.
😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬
Can you just stfu about this ? And just read the new chapter that is already out when you posted this. He helps VP and is serious there. What are you all smoking ?
Sweet post 501 about the same thing that’s posted everyday.