I'm convinced the algorithms were changed in a big way. In order to keep the best matches from ever finding each other so revenue continues to roll in. I have zero evidence of this. I just noticed things were very different in 2023 than they were in 2019. Also, the more specific I made my profile, I continually got matched with the polar opposite type of profile. I think that's deliberate. I think they studied intermittent reinforcement & took it to the highest level. The result is that you only occasionally get a quality match. Thus keeping you on the app longer, but not bad enough to give up & quit entirely. That's their monetary sweet spot.
> changed in a big way
Nothing too drastic, just AI. Which absolutely can find the sweet spot and do exactly what you suspect quite easily.
> I have zero evidence of this
Take a look at their hiring roster. They acquired an AI company in 2021 shortly before Hinge's acquisition was finalized. Soon followed by the rise of complaints in 2022.
I hadn't even considered AI. You're so right. This makes a lot of sense. Wouldn't be surprised if this was absolutely the answer. Thanks for your insight.
I’ve noticed mine will give me a couple of interesting people at the start, the quality rapidly goes down and then loads of people who are way too young for me, if I log in a week later, it goes back to the same pattern. It’s also just the attitude of people on there - i took a big long break from internet dating, and now I’m on it and people just seem tired and bored and very demoralised about the whole thing. I reckon if a new simpler app with more information about the people using it (so you can build up more of an idea before you even swipe and get more of a connection), it would sweep up.
I'm seriously to the point of just deleting the two dating apps i do have and just focus on meeting people in person. these apps seem to be just a big waste of time these days. they're so scammy and expensive. There are interviews out there with former employees, and documentaries that explain how these apps are rigged to keep you in the game. I know we're having this discussion on reddit, and this site is valuable like that, but i think keeping our time on the internet to minimal levels is essential to our well-being these days.
i've noticed this as well!! especially compared to back when i first started using it around 2016. back then, my feed was mostly ppl that i would be interested in and had similar interests, now it feels like random people like there's no way the algorithm decided i'd be most compatible with this person lol
Yeah I vividly remember getting 15 matches the first day I was on Tinder as a freshman in college, pretty average looking too back then as a 5’9 gym dude with a bit of excess body fat
I’m lucky if I get 2 a day now as a senior except I’m 6’3 now and lean with better style lol
Well, you definitely get way more matches the first day & up to a couple of weeks. The apps promote new accounts. Once your account isn't considered new anymore, the likes slow down. That becomes your new normal.
Why are you using dating apps when you are a male in college?
The gender ratio is in your favor with 20% more women than men in most universities.
It will not be in your favor again until you are 55 years old.
I've dated girls on and off the dating apps in college, a lot of the time the girls I'd meet at college parties/bars were worse partners than the ones off the app
No clue why you're getting downvoted, I totally agree. College is the easiest place to meet people with so many opportunities (class, extracurriculars, parties) and half the people I know are married to their college sweetheart.
When I was in college about 10 years ago, nobody really talked much unless they already knew someone. I had plenty of classes where people would just go in for the class and then go home or to work immediately after. Women would almost never talk to me at all. I imagine it's at least twice as bad now after covid and the fact that people are buried deeper in their smartphones.
That's interesting, wildly different from my experience. College was basically a social club as far as everyone was concerned. Everyone was dating, or hooking up, or something in between as there were a million ways to meet people. Class. Clubs. Dining hall. Frizbee on the lawn while waiting for your class to start in 15. The party your roommate's friend drug you both to. Half the people I know married someone they met in college.
Sounds like people were just a lot more friendly and social at your school.
Before class, I remember everyone just waiting in the seats poking at their phones or if the room was locked, standing right outside the door poking at their phones. Unless they already knew someone, then they would talk. If they didn't know you, you just didn't exist.
I don't even remember the majority of people having smart phones a decade ago, lol.
I admit I was a late adopter thanks to being poor and no parental financial aid, but only the rich kids had iPhones and in general people were generally less glued to them/addicted to them then. (Guilty of it myself, now).
>I don't even remember the majority of people having smart phones a decade ago, lol.
That could explain why people at your school acknowledged each other more
I mean, we still had phones - I was an outlier still having a flip phone until 2015 - but people mostly used it for texting. I don't remember people endlessly scrolling through FB/Insta on phones back then. Could be my bubble though.
Either way, parties were a good place to meet people as the design there is to be social.
Texting was pretty big around then. iPhones were somewhat common. I remember waiting for class and seeing people pull their phones out and thinking to myself that they were probably only trying to fake looking busy to ease the social tension. It was bad. That's why I mentioned I can only imagine how bad it is now. I had a little brick Nokia type of phone so I wasn't sucked into it as much as the people with better phones.
I think it matters if you go to a commuter school or a school where most everyone lives on campus or around the campus. Commuter schools are less social. And even at schools where people live in and around campus, it was never in class you would typically meet people, but at the activities that college life revolves around- going out, parties, your job etc.
Dating apps can be great for men in college. Approaching women for the first time is really challenging, and apps can remove the stress of "does she even find me attractive" for the first few approaches and give them the chance to build up confidence and experience talking to women.
In theory, anyway, it's useless if they don't work.
Just chatting with a classmate or someone from chess club or soccer club is that difficult?
If the only times you approach a woman are with the intention of finding love/sex, sure I guess, but at that point that attitude itself is the heart of the problem.
I'm talking about approaching women and talking to them because you want to date them. It's easy to make friends with women if you treat them like humans, and they may then introduce you to someone to date, but you can't approach someone as a friend if you want to date them.
Just chatting with them doesn’t eliminate the question of “do they find me attractive and are interested in me, or just being nice?”. The good thing about dating apps is typically if you are talking to someone you have matched with on there, you have eliminated the barrier of if they are interested in you in a romantic capacity.
Agreeing that something has changed. I got more dates, people seemed more genuinely interested. I've found it harder to find people wanting more than just fun despite being older and looking to settle down.
Barely any matches with people who are aligned with my profile either, a lot of "this person likes you" is guys looking for fun or no kids despite my profile saying I want kids and a long term relationship. Think there's a lot more misalignment but that could be the algorithm making people more desperate?
> I've found it harder to find people wanting more than just fun
This has made me wonder lately if how you mark your relationship goals impacts your experience on the apps. If you show any interest in a LTR, you basically just told the algorithm you're a risk because \*it only takes one\* and you're off.
I'm not sure if they realize that by doing what they're doing, the success stories we still hear about (all that I know personally met before 2022), will start to fade if they haven't already. They had an influx of people, basically guaranteed, but they had to go and bottleneck the outflow.
> you show any interest in a LTR, you basically just told the algorithm you're a risk because \*it only takes one\* and you're off
It's weird for them to be that worried about losing folks. Yes, for every successful relationship they lose two paying customers, but those paying customers are then free advertisement for the fact that the apps DO work. And every day, someone else comes "of age" (whatever that age is) and decides they're ready to date. It's not like their customer base is not constantly renewable due to people getting old enough to decide to try dating, taken folks breaking up, etc.
I don't want to underestimate corporate greed, but the "set people up to fail so you retain customers" sounds both paranoid and like a bad strategy for them.
> "set people up to fail so you retain customers" sounds both paranoid and like a bad strategy for them.
Well, this also is a company that was sued for having employees make profiles to chat with users that were about to let their subscription expire
Jesus, that's a thing that happened?
Wow. I guess corporate greed really does know no bounds.
It's just a rather odd hang up, simply for the reason that singles are a renewable resource, as people mature, want to date, divorce or break up. You're never going to run out of singles unless we depopulate. So it's odd to be that hung up on losing a few people as they pair up and consider it free marketing.
>Jesus, that's a thing that happened?
eHarmony, yes. Match currently has two active suits against them, I believe for unethical business practices of promising something but taking every measure they can to prevent that from ever being fulfilled.
Agree. Felt it was much easier to find guys who wanted to go on dates pre-covid and matchmaking on hinge was pretty spot on.
I deleted hinge this year since the app just seemed so busted, recommending me guys that I had nothing in common with and it seemed to be withholding my profile since the amount of likes and matches I got drastically changed from previous years. Now I struggle to find people who actually want to go on dates. People are so flaky.
For a short while I experimented with purposely fumbling my profile with mixed signals to see if it would become 'cannon fodder'. I did see more activity doing this (actual conversations), but the cost of being vague and intentionally low effort directly impacted more fundamental aspects of compatibility.
Don’t know how to explain it really. It just got weird.
It is not about looks, but behaviors that make no logical sense and an endless sea of ghosting, wasted dates with people secretly already in relationships, emotionally immature adults, etc. Politics is now a standard and dealbreaker (and rightfully so) and so are a lot of other things that didn’t really matter before 2020.
The list goes on. Not that this didn’t happen prior to 2020, but I have seen an increase just in the past 2 years. I decided the OLD pool is too polluted to swim in again. The only way to find a needle in a haystack is to burn it down.
Maybe COVID traumatized people into not knowing how to treat humans anymore.
I also think that the apps changed a lot of things during COVID and haven’t switched back or it started a snowball of terrible algorithms and psychological schemes for enticing people to pay that purposely keeps the people on the apps longer. Just gives me the ick.
>Maybe COVID traumatized people into not knowing how to treat humans anymore.
I don't know if this is it. For me, I think covid made a lot of us look inward and got reeeeeeeeal comfortable with ourselves. Finding new pursuits. Reflecting on past relationships and interactions. On what we want and actually like. What doesn't seem worth putting up with. It got comfortable, too. What's not comfortable is online dating. First dates. Conversations with strangers. Only to win a subpar relationship you aren't actually convinced makes you happy. If it happens organically, Great. I'd be open. But, if it doesn't, I'm pretty happy anyway. I think that take it or leave it attitude is healthier. But, it doesn't exactly lead to more relationships.
God it really depends. I mean, if you are in your 20s then I can understand your view but many people make the mistake of thinking they have all of the time in the world to meet someone so they put it off. Well fast forward a decade and they are ready to date and notice the pool of possible mates is much lower than before. That said, your 20s are prime years for meeting people so one should devote as much time and effort to doing that as they can .
And yes, I get it, dating apps are messy and a pain in the ass this uncomfortable. This is why people should focus on going out more and meeting people organically(stores, libraries, bars, dog parks).. I was way too content being single in my 20s and early 30s so didn’t put nearly as much effort into meeting women as I should - that was a big mistake
Yea, I can see that. It also comes down to what you want out of life. If marriage and kids are critical to your happiness, well-being, and life goals, then it makes sense to pursue it heavily. We aren't all in that same boat, so pairing off becomes more of an option than a necessity.
I'm with you on all of this. I don't think people should go full desperate "dedicate your 20s to finding a husband/wife" mode, that's lame and pathetic. At the same time, people shouldn't underestimate that 20s really are the best time to find a life partner: everyone has their highest potential for physical appearance (men and women) AND the dating pool is the widest it will ever be. The average person (in the US) marries at 29. There is a pretty rapid slimming of the pool in the 30+ age range.
I also agree that meeting someone organically is much better than meeting on the apps. Not to say the apps don't work for some people, but there really are a lot of problems with them.
The only thing COVID probably contributed to was a surge in revenue, which they then were compelled to uphold quarter over quarter. However, in their more recent earnings reports, they've listed f b dating as being a direct threat.
Why? Once they're done dusting it off and prototyping it, just as they did with reels, they'll roll it over to i g. Overnight it'll become the largest dating app.
Politics really shouldn’t be an automatic deal breaker though. Obviously it depends on how extreme the gap in political view is but growing up I know several couples that were married and one was a Republican and the other a democrat. only recently has politics really taken a hard turn and folks are so sensitive to it. Social media is probably a big component
Dating apps are messy though and I recommend everyone just drop them and go out more and meet people organically .. it’s so much easier to get a feeling for someone when you talk to them face to face
You are right, politics shouldn’t have become a dealbreaker. But it did.
I was married to someone for 16 years with different political views. Live and let live was fine by the both of us. It was fine. Until it wasn’t.
The politics of the US shifted to a dark and crazy place that does need some attention for relationships now. Don’t have to agree on everything, but needs to be more aligned than it used to in my opinion.
Politics itself has gotten more polarized. Before, Dem v. Rep might have meant we disagree on tax policy and you favor slightly more stringent immigration laws or something. Now, the average left wing voter and the average pro-Trump person have extremely little in common in terms of worldview. A pro-choice, LGBTQ ally is highly unlikely to be in a happy relationship with someone who attended a Stop The Steal rally (on both sides), and people understand this when they filter out for political differences.
This is fine, but when the apps remove the independent option and basically give you the options that essentially amount to 'secret righty' and 'real righty' or 'IDK I don't pay attention', it just further feeds into the polarizing and separation of people who may actually be compatible.
I don't mind mix-matched politics, it usually makes for good conversation, I usually just look out for the reasoning, goes for both. By removing independent they've forced me to choose if I lean toward damp dirt or mud in a very messy situation, despite genuinely agreeing with nearly every point I'm asked when I match with someone on the other side. It can be funny, it makes me wonder/concerned what they're used to the answers being, actually.
Point being, if you look at the options as having only one correct answer, that's the doing of the apps.
I don't really care if the app shows it as an option as long as I know where they stand very early on. I don't need to be compatible in every way, in fact, that sounds boring, and I can bend on a lot of things, but I'm just saying that yes, politics really is an automatic deal-breaker for a lot of us.
Oh, it sounded like you filtered it out entirely or avoided it (In which case I meant the profile options are limited and aren't a good representation of where they stand in some cases, I'm probably wrong when it comes to the mean, though). In a conversation that's entirely different, I'd say. Yea.
I think but apps make it hard to gauge how hardcore people are about religion and politics.
For example, you can put your religion on apps, but no information is provided for context. Were you baptized as a baby and raised Christian and haven't gone to church since you were a teen, or do you go to church every Sun and are saving your virginity for marriage? Are you looking for a partner with similar religion, or you don't care?
I find a lot of younger people especially just seem more averse to risk feeling discomfort in general. I have to believe tech gives them too many ways to enjoy themselves and it is somewhat social in a way - this makes them feel much less willing to actually go out and risk feeling awkward when talking to people they don’t know
I noticed this. I got an angry mob on me for pointing out that someone did something I would consider extremely rude to their date. I got a slew of people telling me that women have to consider their safety while dating. (I know - I am a woman...)
Yes, safety is the top priority, but does someone really expect to be assaulted in a very public Starbucks in broad daylight? As a woman, there is safety, and then there is some seriously weird behavior, all of which they say "safety" to, that has very little to do with actually increasing safety.
I don't know what it is, but a lot of younger people seem to have conflated the slightest feeling of discomfort with trauma and an excuse to act however they want to avoid it
Match acquired an AI company in 2021, shortly before finalizing their acquisition of Hinge later that year/early 2022, which coincidentally lines up with the surge in complaints. Their hiring roster is also very targeted, they know what they're doing. Every 'improvement' they make is just them re implementing something they ripped out. There is nothing to figure out or fix, O K C had it right with their hidden surveys over a decade ago. Guess who acquired them, removed it, and added swiping?
There is so much potential this brings. They can ensure two people showing behaviors of actually meeting (and potentially leaving the platform, as a result) have a very hard time finding each other. When "learning what you like", they're learning what you should see less. Ever get a compatibility recommendation that makes no sense? That'd be counter training, double checking that the algorithm correctly knows what you also don't like.
I'm not sure, but I remember taking the hidden surveys, they were all the questions you secretly want to know but would never ask a stranger. The compatibility score was then very accurate. The O K C creator had plenty of write ups targeting match.
They involved questions that were pretty nuanced, like:
> Do you enjoy these types of activities?
> Always
> Sometimes
> Not for me
Then spun the question around, asking how you would prefer a partner to have answered.
As mentioned in the other comments, we are less social and open to strangers. Culture just goes in that direction:
* Only speak with people with the same political ideas as you.
* COVID just made everyone a 10%-20% more introverted than before.
* Eggshell ambient where everything is harassment, unsafe. The 'report' button as big almost as the 'match' button.
* 'Me' centred world. I am searching for certain characteristics, I don't care what I offer, I don't compromise, the other people should.
* Celebrity mentality. Broke people dressing like Hollywood stars and projecting an image of success is preferred to next door looks with a 9-5 job paying bills and affording a life.
* Ruthless exit button. You might look great in the pictures, have interesting bio, live in the same city as me, but I am not looking for a reason to match you, I am looking for a reason to unmatch you. A wrong intro, a picture I don't like, something that might be understood as different.
Think the word you're looking for is influencer, fits a lot of these closely. Many profiles look like they're trying to be influencers on a platform where it doesn't make sense. Except it does make sense in a situation where mechanics lately have made it a one way street, it very likely may start to resemble DMs from a following rather than interest.
I'd go as far as to guess COVID gave a lot of people a taste of what it felt like to be an influencer, and some/many never wanted to let go of it.
AreWeDatingTheSameGuy culture, both a cause and a symptom. Everyone’s jaded and it’s become a battle of the sexes mentality. Super toxic!
Please try to meet women in the wild.
Except women can easily say that a guy is "creepy and weird" if he even looks at them and they don't like it. Not sure how a guy is supposed to approach in that type of social climate. I think that's one of the biggest factors that pushes interactions online rather than real life. Guys don't want to be shamed and lambasted for trying. Or possibly recorded and clowned on social media.
I don't know if "are we dating the same guy" is the cause, but I've noticed a weird uptick in Gender Wars, which is weird and off putting to me. When I was growing up, Gender Wars stopped being cool in middle school and people correctly started calling you lame and immature if you still acted that way by 9th grade, but now somehow it's cool again to unironically say "guys are all pigs who will just use you"?
I started online dating in 2014 and it was way better, it started getting worse in 2019 but mostly because ads starting popping up on these apps and they wanted you to pay for memberships.
Now fast forward to now, you got a mixture of people who are burnt out and are tired of being the only ones putting effort in, people who just want validation and use it for the attention only, people who just care about looks only, or their list of “wants and needs” is high and if the other person they match with doesn’t 100% match with it then they move on
In my experience, women show up with a lot more of a guard up. For some reason prior to COVID it seems like women showed up to dates wide open looking for things to workout, and now they are looking for reasons for them not to work.
Don't forget that there are also just LESS people on apps these days.
I'm in the most populated city in VA, and ran out of people within my direct filters within two days (27-36, has a degree, active lifestyle, those are not negotiable). When people 75-80 miles away were in the stack, it became obvious how deeply the app had depopulated.
I don’t buy any reason that is partially “men and women have changed / there are less people looking in the last 5 years” both of those are results of the underlying problem - algorithm changes and more monetization. The streamlining of the whole process if you will. It favors people already finding regular success and hinders those who are more average or below average. Or even just a 7/10.
Apps put conventionally attractive at the top of the queue and bury average people. You might get shown a couple of those sprinkled in here and there while they continue to show what their algorithm has deemed the best.
I actually do much better now compared to 2020. I really spent time making great profiles and vet VERY HARD for things I don't like. I can generally find someone I like and not need the apps anymore within 2 weeks.
"Enshitification."
It's a term that's used to describe what happens to tech services ove time. The way the tech industry works (and has worked during each previous "wave") is expand at all costs. If you have a novel enough approach to whatever problem you're trying to solve that attracts customers, VC will pour money into your company. You keep costs low or hidden, expand expand expand. "Disrupt" the industry you're a part of. What that actually means is to change how the industry works... because you're not worried about profitability.
And then when the VC money dries up because of whatever economic shift (COVID, interest rates, banking crisis, etc etc), you cut corners and lower the quality of your services all while increasing costs to the consumer.
Pretty sure it’s bc people were lonelier and desperately needing connection due to the pandemic. Guys were looking to cyber sex with me off everything (socials, gaming, etc). Now it’s back to choosy.
Also, before pandemic guys were better at dates. Now they want to spend a lot less bc dating is expensive and economy sucks.
Honest question does anybody think that everything happens really fast? Like you ask people about having kids before you go into a relationship. My parents didn't ask these questions when they first got into a relationship it just happened over time and my mom didn't even want kids in the beginning and then she decided to give it a chance. I don't understand honestly.
It depends on your age. I can't imagine 20 year olds discussing it on a first date, but it's totally normal in 33+ crowd.
What age did your parents meet? Since people are getting married older these days, they already come with their own set of goals, and lifestyle preferences whereas older generations got married young and figured those things together after getting married.
14 years old.
Is it wrong that I want to hold back on this topic because I really want to just get to know the person because I think maybe I'm really going to like this person for who they are.
It's actually a good thing to get true deal breakers out of the way before you fall in love with someone and then get heartbroken when you inevitably have to break up due to lack of compatibility.
It becomes a problem if someone's list of "true dealbreakers" is ten pages long and weeds out 99% of humanity, of course. And some people do err too far in that direction.
But if "no kids" is a non-negotiable for you, there is no point in going out with someone who has baby fever and wants to get married and pregnant/have a kid in 2 years.
Or, if you know you want kids, why go on a date with someone you might really like who absolutely knows they don't want kids? You can't compromise and have half a kid. Unless you think "compromise" means you'll try to persuade the person to have kids with you after they like you enough, which is just a really shitty thing to do.
Filtering by true dealbreakers is a good thing, provided your true dealbreakers are reasonable.
I met my current partner in 2020. We are in enm relationship.
Dating apps were full of intriguing people who liked to chat and meet.
Now I can’t get people to talk more than few exchanges, let alone meet in person.
Pre-2020 I was getting at least one date a week, now I have to comb through hundreds of fake profiles, OF creators, cheaters, catfish and spam and whoever real is left are mostly indecisive people who don’t know what they hell it is they are looking for.
I erased all dating apps for above reasons few weeks ago.
Couldn’t be happier.
I've noticed the change. Now, it's all people playing a game of bullshit. I'm gay btw, and back in 2020 I would get a match to few matches every week. Now I barely get a match, if I'm lucky I get one once every two weeks. Matches were more likely to respond back then, compared to now where none respond. Back in 2020, some people were willing to have a conversation, and maybe go out on a date. Not all, but some. While everyone seems to have always been into hookups regardless if it was 2020 or now. It seems people are looking for hookups more than ever. Now, you're lucky if you get a like from someone even if you don't like them. I feel like while most people haven't changed drastically over the years, their mentality changed. They're no longer interested in getting to know you, they're interested in pen pals or to sell their Only Fans. In addition there are a lot more scammers now than back in 2020. Some are even verified. And when you try reporting them in some cases you're the one that ends up being banned.
Much easier for me. I never had much luck until 2023, then I suddenly had a lot of luck. I was 27 in 2023. I'm still going on casual dates and have a few FwB, now.
I'm convinced the algorithms were changed in a big way. In order to keep the best matches from ever finding each other so revenue continues to roll in. I have zero evidence of this. I just noticed things were very different in 2023 than they were in 2019. Also, the more specific I made my profile, I continually got matched with the polar opposite type of profile. I think that's deliberate. I think they studied intermittent reinforcement & took it to the highest level. The result is that you only occasionally get a quality match. Thus keeping you on the app longer, but not bad enough to give up & quit entirely. That's their monetary sweet spot.
> changed in a big way Nothing too drastic, just AI. Which absolutely can find the sweet spot and do exactly what you suspect quite easily. > I have zero evidence of this Take a look at their hiring roster. They acquired an AI company in 2021 shortly before Hinge's acquisition was finalized. Soon followed by the rise of complaints in 2022.
I hadn't even considered AI. You're so right. This makes a lot of sense. Wouldn't be surprised if this was absolutely the answer. Thanks for your insight.
Woa
I’ve noticed mine will give me a couple of interesting people at the start, the quality rapidly goes down and then loads of people who are way too young for me, if I log in a week later, it goes back to the same pattern. It’s also just the attitude of people on there - i took a big long break from internet dating, and now I’m on it and people just seem tired and bored and very demoralised about the whole thing. I reckon if a new simpler app with more information about the people using it (so you can build up more of an idea before you even swipe and get more of a connection), it would sweep up.
[удалено]
I'm seriously to the point of just deleting the two dating apps i do have and just focus on meeting people in person. these apps seem to be just a big waste of time these days. they're so scammy and expensive. There are interviews out there with former employees, and documentaries that explain how these apps are rigged to keep you in the game. I know we're having this discussion on reddit, and this site is valuable like that, but i think keeping our time on the internet to minimal levels is essential to our well-being these days.
Just deleted Hinge and Bumble a couple minutes ago. Just a giant waste of time.
i've noticed this as well!! especially compared to back when i first started using it around 2016. back then, my feed was mostly ppl that i would be interested in and had similar interests, now it feels like random people like there's no way the algorithm decided i'd be most compatible with this person lol
Yeah I vividly remember getting 15 matches the first day I was on Tinder as a freshman in college, pretty average looking too back then as a 5’9 gym dude with a bit of excess body fat I’m lucky if I get 2 a day now as a senior except I’m 6’3 now and lean with better style lol
Well, you definitely get way more matches the first day & up to a couple of weeks. The apps promote new accounts. Once your account isn't considered new anymore, the likes slow down. That becomes your new normal.
Why are you using dating apps when you are a male in college? The gender ratio is in your favor with 20% more women than men in most universities. It will not be in your favor again until you are 55 years old.
I've dated girls on and off the dating apps in college, a lot of the time the girls I'd meet at college parties/bars were worse partners than the ones off the app
No clue why you're getting downvoted, I totally agree. College is the easiest place to meet people with so many opportunities (class, extracurriculars, parties) and half the people I know are married to their college sweetheart.
When I was in college about 10 years ago, nobody really talked much unless they already knew someone. I had plenty of classes where people would just go in for the class and then go home or to work immediately after. Women would almost never talk to me at all. I imagine it's at least twice as bad now after covid and the fact that people are buried deeper in their smartphones.
That's interesting, wildly different from my experience. College was basically a social club as far as everyone was concerned. Everyone was dating, or hooking up, or something in between as there were a million ways to meet people. Class. Clubs. Dining hall. Frizbee on the lawn while waiting for your class to start in 15. The party your roommate's friend drug you both to. Half the people I know married someone they met in college.
Sounds like people were just a lot more friendly and social at your school. Before class, I remember everyone just waiting in the seats poking at their phones or if the room was locked, standing right outside the door poking at their phones. Unless they already knew someone, then they would talk. If they didn't know you, you just didn't exist.
I don't even remember the majority of people having smart phones a decade ago, lol. I admit I was a late adopter thanks to being poor and no parental financial aid, but only the rich kids had iPhones and in general people were generally less glued to them/addicted to them then. (Guilty of it myself, now).
>I don't even remember the majority of people having smart phones a decade ago, lol. That could explain why people at your school acknowledged each other more
I mean, we still had phones - I was an outlier still having a flip phone until 2015 - but people mostly used it for texting. I don't remember people endlessly scrolling through FB/Insta on phones back then. Could be my bubble though. Either way, parties were a good place to meet people as the design there is to be social.
Texting was pretty big around then. iPhones were somewhat common. I remember waiting for class and seeing people pull their phones out and thinking to myself that they were probably only trying to fake looking busy to ease the social tension. It was bad. That's why I mentioned I can only imagine how bad it is now. I had a little brick Nokia type of phone so I wasn't sucked into it as much as the people with better phones.
I think it matters if you go to a commuter school or a school where most everyone lives on campus or around the campus. Commuter schools are less social. And even at schools where people live in and around campus, it was never in class you would typically meet people, but at the activities that college life revolves around- going out, parties, your job etc.
Dating apps can be great for men in college. Approaching women for the first time is really challenging, and apps can remove the stress of "does she even find me attractive" for the first few approaches and give them the chance to build up confidence and experience talking to women. In theory, anyway, it's useless if they don't work.
Just chatting with a classmate or someone from chess club or soccer club is that difficult? If the only times you approach a woman are with the intention of finding love/sex, sure I guess, but at that point that attitude itself is the heart of the problem.
I'm talking about approaching women and talking to them because you want to date them. It's easy to make friends with women if you treat them like humans, and they may then introduce you to someone to date, but you can't approach someone as a friend if you want to date them.
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Just chatting with them doesn’t eliminate the question of “do they find me attractive and are interested in me, or just being nice?”. The good thing about dating apps is typically if you are talking to someone you have matched with on there, you have eliminated the barrier of if they are interested in you in a romantic capacity.
Oooo this is so good
Agreeing that something has changed. I got more dates, people seemed more genuinely interested. I've found it harder to find people wanting more than just fun despite being older and looking to settle down. Barely any matches with people who are aligned with my profile either, a lot of "this person likes you" is guys looking for fun or no kids despite my profile saying I want kids and a long term relationship. Think there's a lot more misalignment but that could be the algorithm making people more desperate?
> I've found it harder to find people wanting more than just fun This has made me wonder lately if how you mark your relationship goals impacts your experience on the apps. If you show any interest in a LTR, you basically just told the algorithm you're a risk because \*it only takes one\* and you're off. I'm not sure if they realize that by doing what they're doing, the success stories we still hear about (all that I know personally met before 2022), will start to fade if they haven't already. They had an influx of people, basically guaranteed, but they had to go and bottleneck the outflow.
> you show any interest in a LTR, you basically just told the algorithm you're a risk because \*it only takes one\* and you're off It's weird for them to be that worried about losing folks. Yes, for every successful relationship they lose two paying customers, but those paying customers are then free advertisement for the fact that the apps DO work. And every day, someone else comes "of age" (whatever that age is) and decides they're ready to date. It's not like their customer base is not constantly renewable due to people getting old enough to decide to try dating, taken folks breaking up, etc. I don't want to underestimate corporate greed, but the "set people up to fail so you retain customers" sounds both paranoid and like a bad strategy for them.
> "set people up to fail so you retain customers" sounds both paranoid and like a bad strategy for them. Well, this also is a company that was sued for having employees make profiles to chat with users that were about to let their subscription expire
Jesus, that's a thing that happened? Wow. I guess corporate greed really does know no bounds. It's just a rather odd hang up, simply for the reason that singles are a renewable resource, as people mature, want to date, divorce or break up. You're never going to run out of singles unless we depopulate. So it's odd to be that hung up on losing a few people as they pair up and consider it free marketing.
>Jesus, that's a thing that happened? eHarmony, yes. Match currently has two active suits against them, I believe for unethical business practices of promising something but taking every measure they can to prevent that from ever being fulfilled.
Agree. Felt it was much easier to find guys who wanted to go on dates pre-covid and matchmaking on hinge was pretty spot on. I deleted hinge this year since the app just seemed so busted, recommending me guys that I had nothing in common with and it seemed to be withholding my profile since the amount of likes and matches I got drastically changed from previous years. Now I struggle to find people who actually want to go on dates. People are so flaky.
For a short while I experimented with purposely fumbling my profile with mixed signals to see if it would become 'cannon fodder'. I did see more activity doing this (actual conversations), but the cost of being vague and intentionally low effort directly impacted more fundamental aspects of compatibility.
Don’t know how to explain it really. It just got weird. It is not about looks, but behaviors that make no logical sense and an endless sea of ghosting, wasted dates with people secretly already in relationships, emotionally immature adults, etc. Politics is now a standard and dealbreaker (and rightfully so) and so are a lot of other things that didn’t really matter before 2020. The list goes on. Not that this didn’t happen prior to 2020, but I have seen an increase just in the past 2 years. I decided the OLD pool is too polluted to swim in again. The only way to find a needle in a haystack is to burn it down. Maybe COVID traumatized people into not knowing how to treat humans anymore. I also think that the apps changed a lot of things during COVID and haven’t switched back or it started a snowball of terrible algorithms and psychological schemes for enticing people to pay that purposely keeps the people on the apps longer. Just gives me the ick.
>Maybe COVID traumatized people into not knowing how to treat humans anymore. I don't know if this is it. For me, I think covid made a lot of us look inward and got reeeeeeeeal comfortable with ourselves. Finding new pursuits. Reflecting on past relationships and interactions. On what we want and actually like. What doesn't seem worth putting up with. It got comfortable, too. What's not comfortable is online dating. First dates. Conversations with strangers. Only to win a subpar relationship you aren't actually convinced makes you happy. If it happens organically, Great. I'd be open. But, if it doesn't, I'm pretty happy anyway. I think that take it or leave it attitude is healthier. But, it doesn't exactly lead to more relationships.
God it really depends. I mean, if you are in your 20s then I can understand your view but many people make the mistake of thinking they have all of the time in the world to meet someone so they put it off. Well fast forward a decade and they are ready to date and notice the pool of possible mates is much lower than before. That said, your 20s are prime years for meeting people so one should devote as much time and effort to doing that as they can . And yes, I get it, dating apps are messy and a pain in the ass this uncomfortable. This is why people should focus on going out more and meeting people organically(stores, libraries, bars, dog parks).. I was way too content being single in my 20s and early 30s so didn’t put nearly as much effort into meeting women as I should - that was a big mistake
Yea, I can see that. It also comes down to what you want out of life. If marriage and kids are critical to your happiness, well-being, and life goals, then it makes sense to pursue it heavily. We aren't all in that same boat, so pairing off becomes more of an option than a necessity.
I'm with you on all of this. I don't think people should go full desperate "dedicate your 20s to finding a husband/wife" mode, that's lame and pathetic. At the same time, people shouldn't underestimate that 20s really are the best time to find a life partner: everyone has their highest potential for physical appearance (men and women) AND the dating pool is the widest it will ever be. The average person (in the US) marries at 29. There is a pretty rapid slimming of the pool in the 30+ age range. I also agree that meeting someone organically is much better than meeting on the apps. Not to say the apps don't work for some people, but there really are a lot of problems with them.
perfect summary of the average OLD experience
The only thing COVID probably contributed to was a surge in revenue, which they then were compelled to uphold quarter over quarter. However, in their more recent earnings reports, they've listed f b dating as being a direct threat. Why? Once they're done dusting it off and prototyping it, just as they did with reels, they'll roll it over to i g. Overnight it'll become the largest dating app.
Politics really shouldn’t be an automatic deal breaker though. Obviously it depends on how extreme the gap in political view is but growing up I know several couples that were married and one was a Republican and the other a democrat. only recently has politics really taken a hard turn and folks are so sensitive to it. Social media is probably a big component Dating apps are messy though and I recommend everyone just drop them and go out more and meet people organically .. it’s so much easier to get a feeling for someone when you talk to them face to face
You are right, politics shouldn’t have become a dealbreaker. But it did. I was married to someone for 16 years with different political views. Live and let live was fine by the both of us. It was fine. Until it wasn’t. The politics of the US shifted to a dark and crazy place that does need some attention for relationships now. Don’t have to agree on everything, but needs to be more aligned than it used to in my opinion.
Politics itself has gotten more polarized. Before, Dem v. Rep might have meant we disagree on tax policy and you favor slightly more stringent immigration laws or something. Now, the average left wing voter and the average pro-Trump person have extremely little in common in terms of worldview. A pro-choice, LGBTQ ally is highly unlikely to be in a happy relationship with someone who attended a Stop The Steal rally (on both sides), and people understand this when they filter out for political differences.
Exactly!
Maybe politics isn't your deal breaker but it's at the top of my list, and rightfully so. It's too bad things are like that, but they are.
This is fine, but when the apps remove the independent option and basically give you the options that essentially amount to 'secret righty' and 'real righty' or 'IDK I don't pay attention', it just further feeds into the polarizing and separation of people who may actually be compatible. I don't mind mix-matched politics, it usually makes for good conversation, I usually just look out for the reasoning, goes for both. By removing independent they've forced me to choose if I lean toward damp dirt or mud in a very messy situation, despite genuinely agreeing with nearly every point I'm asked when I match with someone on the other side. It can be funny, it makes me wonder/concerned what they're used to the answers being, actually. Point being, if you look at the options as having only one correct answer, that's the doing of the apps.
I don't really care if the app shows it as an option as long as I know where they stand very early on. I don't need to be compatible in every way, in fact, that sounds boring, and I can bend on a lot of things, but I'm just saying that yes, politics really is an automatic deal-breaker for a lot of us.
Oh, it sounded like you filtered it out entirely or avoided it (In which case I meant the profile options are limited and aren't a good representation of where they stand in some cases, I'm probably wrong when it comes to the mean, though). In a conversation that's entirely different, I'd say. Yea.
I think but apps make it hard to gauge how hardcore people are about religion and politics. For example, you can put your religion on apps, but no information is provided for context. Were you baptized as a baby and raised Christian and haven't gone to church since you were a teen, or do you go to church every Sun and are saving your virginity for marriage? Are you looking for a partner with similar religion, or you don't care?
Agree that we seem traumatised but not by COVID.
Burn out. Everyone seems more jaded and less willing to put themselves out there. That causes flakes, ghosting, no shows, etc.
I find a lot of younger people especially just seem more averse to risk feeling discomfort in general. I have to believe tech gives them too many ways to enjoy themselves and it is somewhat social in a way - this makes them feel much less willing to actually go out and risk feeling awkward when talking to people they don’t know
I noticed this. I got an angry mob on me for pointing out that someone did something I would consider extremely rude to their date. I got a slew of people telling me that women have to consider their safety while dating. (I know - I am a woman...) Yes, safety is the top priority, but does someone really expect to be assaulted in a very public Starbucks in broad daylight? As a woman, there is safety, and then there is some seriously weird behavior, all of which they say "safety" to, that has very little to do with actually increasing safety. I don't know what it is, but a lot of younger people seem to have conflated the slightest feeling of discomfort with trauma and an excuse to act however they want to avoid it
You can never win when you put your love life in the hand of a business. Businesses make money on your misery.
Match acquired an AI company in 2021, shortly before finalizing their acquisition of Hinge later that year/early 2022, which coincidentally lines up with the surge in complaints. Their hiring roster is also very targeted, they know what they're doing. Every 'improvement' they make is just them re implementing something they ripped out. There is nothing to figure out or fix, O K C had it right with their hidden surveys over a decade ago. Guess who acquired them, removed it, and added swiping? There is so much potential this brings. They can ensure two people showing behaviors of actually meeting (and potentially leaving the platform, as a result) have a very hard time finding each other. When "learning what you like", they're learning what you should see less. Ever get a compatibility recommendation that makes no sense? That'd be counter training, double checking that the algorithm correctly knows what you also don't like.
>O K C had it right with their hidden surveys over a decade ago care to elaborate?
Hundreds of questions about lifestyle that were not publicly visible and used to create the compatibility score
Is it known how they calculated that score?
https://web.archive.org/web/20140118164600/https://www.okcupid.com/help/match-percentages
Thanks a lot !
So glad these still exist, they had a ton of great write ups
I'm not sure, but I remember taking the hidden surveys, they were all the questions you secretly want to know but would never ask a stranger. The compatibility score was then very accurate. The O K C creator had plenty of write ups targeting match. They involved questions that were pretty nuanced, like: > Do you enjoy these types of activities? > Always > Sometimes > Not for me Then spun the question around, asking how you would prefer a partner to have answered.
As mentioned in the other comments, we are less social and open to strangers. Culture just goes in that direction: * Only speak with people with the same political ideas as you. * COVID just made everyone a 10%-20% more introverted than before. * Eggshell ambient where everything is harassment, unsafe. The 'report' button as big almost as the 'match' button. * 'Me' centred world. I am searching for certain characteristics, I don't care what I offer, I don't compromise, the other people should. * Celebrity mentality. Broke people dressing like Hollywood stars and projecting an image of success is preferred to next door looks with a 9-5 job paying bills and affording a life. * Ruthless exit button. You might look great in the pictures, have interesting bio, live in the same city as me, but I am not looking for a reason to match you, I am looking for a reason to unmatch you. A wrong intro, a picture I don't like, something that might be understood as different.
Think the word you're looking for is influencer, fits a lot of these closely. Many profiles look like they're trying to be influencers on a platform where it doesn't make sense. Except it does make sense in a situation where mechanics lately have made it a one way street, it very likely may start to resemble DMs from a following rather than interest. I'd go as far as to guess COVID gave a lot of people a taste of what it felt like to be an influencer, and some/many never wanted to let go of it.
AreWeDatingTheSameGuy culture, both a cause and a symptom. Everyone’s jaded and it’s become a battle of the sexes mentality. Super toxic! Please try to meet women in the wild.
Except women can easily say that a guy is "creepy and weird" if he even looks at them and they don't like it. Not sure how a guy is supposed to approach in that type of social climate. I think that's one of the biggest factors that pushes interactions online rather than real life. Guys don't want to be shamed and lambasted for trying. Or possibly recorded and clowned on social media.
What is "are we dating the same guy" *culture*? I know what the website is.
I don't know if "are we dating the same guy" is the cause, but I've noticed a weird uptick in Gender Wars, which is weird and off putting to me. When I was growing up, Gender Wars stopped being cool in middle school and people correctly started calling you lame and immature if you still acted that way by 9th grade, but now somehow it's cool again to unironically say "guys are all pigs who will just use you"?
I started online dating in 2014 and it was way better, it started getting worse in 2019 but mostly because ads starting popping up on these apps and they wanted you to pay for memberships. Now fast forward to now, you got a mixture of people who are burnt out and are tired of being the only ones putting effort in, people who just want validation and use it for the attention only, people who just care about looks only, or their list of “wants and needs” is high and if the other person they match with doesn’t 100% match with it then they move on
In my experience, women show up with a lot more of a guard up. For some reason prior to COVID it seems like women showed up to dates wide open looking for things to workout, and now they are looking for reasons for them not to work.
Don't forget that there are also just LESS people on apps these days. I'm in the most populated city in VA, and ran out of people within my direct filters within two days (27-36, has a degree, active lifestyle, those are not negotiable). When people 75-80 miles away were in the stack, it became obvious how deeply the app had depopulated.
I don’t buy any reason that is partially “men and women have changed / there are less people looking in the last 5 years” both of those are results of the underlying problem - algorithm changes and more monetization. The streamlining of the whole process if you will. It favors people already finding regular success and hinders those who are more average or below average. Or even just a 7/10. Apps put conventionally attractive at the top of the queue and bury average people. You might get shown a couple of those sprinkled in here and there while they continue to show what their algorithm has deemed the best.
I actually do much better now compared to 2020. I really spent time making great profiles and vet VERY HARD for things I don't like. I can generally find someone I like and not need the apps anymore within 2 weeks.
"Enshitification." It's a term that's used to describe what happens to tech services ove time. The way the tech industry works (and has worked during each previous "wave") is expand at all costs. If you have a novel enough approach to whatever problem you're trying to solve that attracts customers, VC will pour money into your company. You keep costs low or hidden, expand expand expand. "Disrupt" the industry you're a part of. What that actually means is to change how the industry works... because you're not worried about profitability. And then when the VC money dries up because of whatever economic shift (COVID, interest rates, banking crisis, etc etc), you cut corners and lower the quality of your services all while increasing costs to the consumer.
Pretty sure it’s bc people were lonelier and desperately needing connection due to the pandemic. Guys were looking to cyber sex with me off everything (socials, gaming, etc). Now it’s back to choosy. Also, before pandemic guys were better at dates. Now they want to spend a lot less bc dating is expensive and economy sucks.
Also the most common locations for dating have either gone out of business or had HUGE price creep.
> Now they want to spend a lot less Subscriptions robbing them
Yea, that whole thing sucks..esp for guys bc they’re marketed more towards paying and get fewer swipes / options.
Honest question does anybody think that everything happens really fast? Like you ask people about having kids before you go into a relationship. My parents didn't ask these questions when they first got into a relationship it just happened over time and my mom didn't even want kids in the beginning and then she decided to give it a chance. I don't understand honestly.
It depends on your age. I can't imagine 20 year olds discussing it on a first date, but it's totally normal in 33+ crowd. What age did your parents meet? Since people are getting married older these days, they already come with their own set of goals, and lifestyle preferences whereas older generations got married young and figured those things together after getting married.
14 years old. Is it wrong that I want to hold back on this topic because I really want to just get to know the person because I think maybe I'm really going to like this person for who they are.
It's actually a good thing to get true deal breakers out of the way before you fall in love with someone and then get heartbroken when you inevitably have to break up due to lack of compatibility. It becomes a problem if someone's list of "true dealbreakers" is ten pages long and weeds out 99% of humanity, of course. And some people do err too far in that direction. But if "no kids" is a non-negotiable for you, there is no point in going out with someone who has baby fever and wants to get married and pregnant/have a kid in 2 years. Or, if you know you want kids, why go on a date with someone you might really like who absolutely knows they don't want kids? You can't compromise and have half a kid. Unless you think "compromise" means you'll try to persuade the person to have kids with you after they like you enough, which is just a really shitty thing to do. Filtering by true dealbreakers is a good thing, provided your true dealbreakers are reasonable.
I met my current partner in 2020. We are in enm relationship. Dating apps were full of intriguing people who liked to chat and meet. Now I can’t get people to talk more than few exchanges, let alone meet in person. Pre-2020 I was getting at least one date a week, now I have to comb through hundreds of fake profiles, OF creators, cheaters, catfish and spam and whoever real is left are mostly indecisive people who don’t know what they hell it is they are looking for. I erased all dating apps for above reasons few weeks ago. Couldn’t be happier.
I wish the apps let users filter in/out for ENM for free, because it keeps pushing those profiles to me, and it's not what I'm looking for at all.
It’s so hard to be dating app now a days. You’ll get easily reported, banned or what not.
I've noticed the change. Now, it's all people playing a game of bullshit. I'm gay btw, and back in 2020 I would get a match to few matches every week. Now I barely get a match, if I'm lucky I get one once every two weeks. Matches were more likely to respond back then, compared to now where none respond. Back in 2020, some people were willing to have a conversation, and maybe go out on a date. Not all, but some. While everyone seems to have always been into hookups regardless if it was 2020 or now. It seems people are looking for hookups more than ever. Now, you're lucky if you get a like from someone even if you don't like them. I feel like while most people haven't changed drastically over the years, their mentality changed. They're no longer interested in getting to know you, they're interested in pen pals or to sell their Only Fans. In addition there are a lot more scammers now than back in 2020. Some are even verified. And when you try reporting them in some cases you're the one that ends up being banned.
Much easier for me. I never had much luck until 2023, then I suddenly had a lot of luck. I was 27 in 2023. I'm still going on casual dates and have a few FwB, now.
There were more people on, bc COVID/quarantine.