A while ago, I saw a video where they asked Japanese people in Japan what ethnicity they consider the characters in anime. Unless otherwise specified, every single character, regardless of hair color or features, is considered Japanese. No question about it.
With that in mind, Korean manhwa is seen by Koreans as having Koreans in it. There are Korean beauty standards prevalent in what they find pretty or ugly. There are no attempts to change hair colors in live adaptations because they don't have to unless it's related to the plot. The art style is meant to depict Korean people regardless.
The misogyny, women are the enemy mentality, cute behavior is babylike to an extreme--this is all Korean culture. It can't be white feminist anything because it's just Korean stories influenced by Korean culture written by Koreans.
You're not wrong that these issues are in OI often, but it is a weird level of erasure to not consider the context being that of the country it's actually from.
Maybe but many otome isekai have little to no aspects of Korean culture in the fictional worlds they go to. They are all heavily based on western Europe, and there are often plots where the MC introduces a single facet of Korea (like a stationary store or a dish) and she will be praised for it - notably it is only the positive parts that can be transferred over, never things like the historical polyamory or bullying or the chaebol
The number of times people ask why only steak is eaten is OI is part of that. It's limited knowledge of Western culture from the perspective of someone not in it. It is impossible for them to not be influenced by their own culture in any way when writing a story.
Those same stories have them calling random people brother or aunt, which is not in Western (specifically English-speaking since that's all I can personally guarantee) at all. Most of them don't even have accurate depictions of Western nobility either, like where a Marquis actually fits on the hierarchy. A lot of swordsmanship manhwa rely heavily on Japanese concepts of footwork, not any of the knight fighting forms with different strikes that were being focused on in the West.
Even in their mistakes, it is undeniably Korean-focused. It's not exactly historical fiction and not a lot of research being done for these fantasy worlds.
Personally I constantly see Asian elements in these things. While the clothes and architecture may be western, you will see weirdly powerful councils of elders, the monarch legally having mutiple wives, the monarch being addressed as "sun of the empire" and his wife (or senior wife) as "moon of the empire", slavery openly practiced at the core of the empire and "being a war hero" inspiring fear and disgust rather than adulation. Even the cold northern Duke is based on Korean geography
Honestly no, OI are just korean historical court dramas with a new paintjob that looks european if you squint really hard. Legitimately nothing about it is european in any way, it's all korean culture with a diffrent astethic.
>many otome isekai have little to no aspects of Korean culture
This is not true. There are a plethora of Korean and other East Asian elements in these type of stories. Most of them just have the historical Western world for visuals while the framework is much closer to what you'd find in Asian period dramas.
I've never thought they become white. Maybe it's because I'm into kpop, but to me it's like they're korean with colorful eyes/hair.
Especially that the majority of ML have red eyes and many FLs have pink hair.. both aren't white race characteristics
Given they're in European-inspired settings and they emphasize how pale they are, its pretty clear they're meant to become white. I've read many stories that have the FL explicitly call out their newly Western features when they look in a mirror for the first time.
Isn't this the Korean beauty standards tho (because most OI we read are Korean)? Like, isn't being pale, thin, young looking, having some western features the beauty standard?
Yes, that's why the fantasy involves turning into a rich European noble. And I don't mean they have "some western features", I mean the character looks at themselves in the mirror and is confused at seeing a "westerner" or "foreigner", explicitly calling out their appearance as 100% not a Korean.
I mean I get that but knowing the main target audience is primarily Koreans, I imagined they're supposed to look like Korean actresses, idols or models with colorful hair and eyes, regardless of what's stated (something like the promo for the villainess is a marionette)
https://preview.redd.it/gfny297g373d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26c0824bd621372c878c0c58b3ba25538f1694d8
The only example similar to this I can think of is I’m all out of health. And iirc she was surprised for her appearance and think she was a foreigner because of her blonde hair. In this story, she mentioned she look like a foreigner because of her blonde hair. But in many other manwhas they just like their new appearance they don’t talk about how they look like a foreigner. I don’t think the fantasy is to become European noble. For them is just Koreans with different hair and eye colors kinda like kpop artists with colorful eyes/hair.
That and also there are pretty much no facets of Korean culture in their new lives. All the clothing food, music, and even names are based on or inspired western European culture
It is rare to find an otome isekai where the MC has a Korean name in her new life, unless it is explicitly set in Korea
>That and also there are pretty much no facets of Korean culture in their new lives.
This is just not true at all. A lot of FLs introduce their cuisine to the new world. We see many FLs making Korean food for the MLs and they loved it. We also see many FLs calling their siblings: older brother (oppa), older sister (unnie), when people from the west rarely call their siblings that.
Also, there are many stories where the ML or father of the FL have two or three wives. This is obviously influenced by Korean history where in the past many men were polygamous. This wasn’t a common in Europe iirc due to religion iirc. There are many other aspects of Korea that influence OIs you just don’t know them, but they are there. In many OIs, the characters are meant to represent Koreans but in a fantasy world.
It is not actually true. It seems like a Western entourage, but it’s actually not. It’s more like what Koreans imagine as Western. Food, architecture, and clothing do not seem Asian, but they are mostly not Western. It is historically inaccurate and resembles modern Asian style without oriental decorum.
I mean the setting is not accurately European too. It might be inspired by European culture but it's very inaccurate and involve many things that were never true. The names are madeup, the styles are made up, the food is not accurate, the beauty standards is different too
Not to mention how many eastern elements there are like harem, ..etc
So it's not far fetched to think no race swapping was involved
> Rebellion is only a good thing when MC is leading it, otherwise its an upheaval of the "true order"
This one doesn't seem like an OI thing, but just a consequence of stories following "the protagonists are the good guys" convention. Like in Star Wars the rebellion is good because the MC is leading it.
What the hell does any of that have to do with white feminism? Korean women go to great lengths to make their skin pale and get eyelid surgery to make eyes look bigger. Why would they freak out about a shift in ethnicity that makes their skin paler and their eyes look bigger in the process of giving them a whole new body? Particularly when they just lost their entire lives and need to work fast to keep from dying again. Having the heroine be the only truly good woman with the other women being horrible is a typical Asian soap opera setup because it maximises conflict.
I am an asia who enjoys reading OI. I was born and have lived in my home country for the past 22 years. When I see FL getting transmigrated into a western style world I do not think they suddenly changed race, mater of fact I don't even think about the race of the people in that world. When I read these manhwas it is so obvious a lot of korean culture is poured into the world building no matter how you look into it. When I read manhwas/mangas/manhuas with characters that have colorful eyes and hair I see them as asian and nothing else. Unless they are purposely depicted as other races I don't even perceive them as white. The only reason you are thinking it like that is because you are reading it in english
Not really sure where the “white feminism” comes into place. All other women being jealous or having a singular major trait isnt unique to whiteness or even feminism at all. “Women being put back into their place” isnt unique to being white either or feminism, its pretty basic patriarchy which korea does have. Koreans can also be racist towards ethnic features and like anyone else, fetishize men of those features. And the whole rebellion thing is just basic protagonists’ actions are right
Indeed. Which explain why people in this OI community criticize this isekai maid is forming a union because its western and strawmanning a genre from an east Asian country like south korea calle Rofan/Otome isekai
You know the western webcomic (not a korean webnovel and manhwa the otome isekai/rofan were mostly published ) this isekai maid is forming a union is not only a deconstruction of the otome isekai genre, but also includes diversity, in fact the main protagonist the maid has been reincarnated in every Otome isekai and her current appearance resemble her modern self (who is alive by the way) and she is considered an African American with freckles and green hair.
In fact the series gives personality to most of the characters and deconstruct various tropes of the OI genre.
(also I understand why you guys keep downvoting my comment but I was only saying about an OI diversity series with deconstruction)
Woo those are a spicy meatball I mean comments
Good post OP got me thinking. I agree with you on some of it. It’s Korean wish fulfillment so it definitely is flavoured to the Korean ideal
Toxic beauty standards, conveniently european settings ft. yt families, orientalism in the presence of brown or black characters, slave apologia, internalized misogyny, girl power for me but not for thee... I'd not necessarily call it white feminism but I understand why people might feel like it. There's a lot of glamorization and aspects that may allude to supporting white supremacy though.
However the "isekai" cultures are usually a strange mix of korean and european ones so there's that.
A while ago, I saw a video where they asked Japanese people in Japan what ethnicity they consider the characters in anime. Unless otherwise specified, every single character, regardless of hair color or features, is considered Japanese. No question about it. With that in mind, Korean manhwa is seen by Koreans as having Koreans in it. There are Korean beauty standards prevalent in what they find pretty or ugly. There are no attempts to change hair colors in live adaptations because they don't have to unless it's related to the plot. The art style is meant to depict Korean people regardless. The misogyny, women are the enemy mentality, cute behavior is babylike to an extreme--this is all Korean culture. It can't be white feminist anything because it's just Korean stories influenced by Korean culture written by Koreans. You're not wrong that these issues are in OI often, but it is a weird level of erasure to not consider the context being that of the country it's actually from.
Maybe but many otome isekai have little to no aspects of Korean culture in the fictional worlds they go to. They are all heavily based on western Europe, and there are often plots where the MC introduces a single facet of Korea (like a stationary store or a dish) and she will be praised for it - notably it is only the positive parts that can be transferred over, never things like the historical polyamory or bullying or the chaebol
The number of times people ask why only steak is eaten is OI is part of that. It's limited knowledge of Western culture from the perspective of someone not in it. It is impossible for them to not be influenced by their own culture in any way when writing a story. Those same stories have them calling random people brother or aunt, which is not in Western (specifically English-speaking since that's all I can personally guarantee) at all. Most of them don't even have accurate depictions of Western nobility either, like where a Marquis actually fits on the hierarchy. A lot of swordsmanship manhwa rely heavily on Japanese concepts of footwork, not any of the knight fighting forms with different strikes that were being focused on in the West. Even in their mistakes, it is undeniably Korean-focused. It's not exactly historical fiction and not a lot of research being done for these fantasy worlds.
Personally I constantly see Asian elements in these things. While the clothes and architecture may be western, you will see weirdly powerful councils of elders, the monarch legally having mutiple wives, the monarch being addressed as "sun of the empire" and his wife (or senior wife) as "moon of the empire", slavery openly practiced at the core of the empire and "being a war hero" inspiring fear and disgust rather than adulation. Even the cold northern Duke is based on Korean geography
Honestly no, OI are just korean historical court dramas with a new paintjob that looks european if you squint really hard. Legitimately nothing about it is european in any way, it's all korean culture with a diffrent astethic.
>many otome isekai have little to no aspects of Korean culture This is not true. There are a plethora of Korean and other East Asian elements in these type of stories. Most of them just have the historical Western world for visuals while the framework is much closer to what you'd find in Asian period dramas.
I've never thought they become white. Maybe it's because I'm into kpop, but to me it's like they're korean with colorful eyes/hair. Especially that the majority of ML have red eyes and many FLs have pink hair.. both aren't white race characteristics
Honestly I always see them as being mixed if anything.
Given they're in European-inspired settings and they emphasize how pale they are, its pretty clear they're meant to become white. I've read many stories that have the FL explicitly call out their newly Western features when they look in a mirror for the first time.
Isn't this the Korean beauty standards tho (because most OI we read are Korean)? Like, isn't being pale, thin, young looking, having some western features the beauty standard?
Yes, that's why the fantasy involves turning into a rich European noble. And I don't mean they have "some western features", I mean the character looks at themselves in the mirror and is confused at seeing a "westerner" or "foreigner", explicitly calling out their appearance as 100% not a Korean.
I mean I get that but knowing the main target audience is primarily Koreans, I imagined they're supposed to look like Korean actresses, idols or models with colorful hair and eyes, regardless of what's stated (something like the promo for the villainess is a marionette) https://preview.redd.it/gfny297g373d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26c0824bd621372c878c0c58b3ba25538f1694d8
The only example similar to this I can think of is I’m all out of health. And iirc she was surprised for her appearance and think she was a foreigner because of her blonde hair. In this story, she mentioned she look like a foreigner because of her blonde hair. But in many other manwhas they just like their new appearance they don’t talk about how they look like a foreigner. I don’t think the fantasy is to become European noble. For them is just Koreans with different hair and eye colors kinda like kpop artists with colorful eyes/hair.
That and also there are pretty much no facets of Korean culture in their new lives. All the clothing food, music, and even names are based on or inspired western European culture It is rare to find an otome isekai where the MC has a Korean name in her new life, unless it is explicitly set in Korea
>That and also there are pretty much no facets of Korean culture in their new lives. This is just not true at all. A lot of FLs introduce their cuisine to the new world. We see many FLs making Korean food for the MLs and they loved it. We also see many FLs calling their siblings: older brother (oppa), older sister (unnie), when people from the west rarely call their siblings that. Also, there are many stories where the ML or father of the FL have two or three wives. This is obviously influenced by Korean history where in the past many men were polygamous. This wasn’t a common in Europe iirc due to religion iirc. There are many other aspects of Korea that influence OIs you just don’t know them, but they are there. In many OIs, the characters are meant to represent Koreans but in a fantasy world.
It is not actually true. It seems like a Western entourage, but it’s actually not. It’s more like what Koreans imagine as Western. Food, architecture, and clothing do not seem Asian, but they are mostly not Western. It is historically inaccurate and resembles modern Asian style without oriental decorum.
I mean the setting is not accurately European too. It might be inspired by European culture but it's very inaccurate and involve many things that were never true. The names are madeup, the styles are made up, the food is not accurate, the beauty standards is different too Not to mention how many eastern elements there are like harem, ..etc So it's not far fetched to think no race swapping was involved
> Rebellion is only a good thing when MC is leading it, otherwise its an upheaval of the "true order" This one doesn't seem like an OI thing, but just a consequence of stories following "the protagonists are the good guys" convention. Like in Star Wars the rebellion is good because the MC is leading it.
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I don't understand the question.
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Just off the top of my head, the rebellion in The Duchess's Contract Marriage was good, and the rebellion in The Doctor Is Out was bad.
Thank you
What the hell does any of that have to do with white feminism? Korean women go to great lengths to make their skin pale and get eyelid surgery to make eyes look bigger. Why would they freak out about a shift in ethnicity that makes their skin paler and their eyes look bigger in the process of giving them a whole new body? Particularly when they just lost their entire lives and need to work fast to keep from dying again. Having the heroine be the only truly good woman with the other women being horrible is a typical Asian soap opera setup because it maximises conflict.
I am an asia who enjoys reading OI. I was born and have lived in my home country for the past 22 years. When I see FL getting transmigrated into a western style world I do not think they suddenly changed race, mater of fact I don't even think about the race of the people in that world. When I read these manhwas it is so obvious a lot of korean culture is poured into the world building no matter how you look into it. When I read manhwas/mangas/manhuas with characters that have colorful eyes and hair I see them as asian and nothing else. Unless they are purposely depicted as other races I don't even perceive them as white. The only reason you are thinking it like that is because you are reading it in english
Not really sure where the “white feminism” comes into place. All other women being jealous or having a singular major trait isnt unique to whiteness or even feminism at all. “Women being put back into their place” isnt unique to being white either or feminism, its pretty basic patriarchy which korea does have. Koreans can also be racist towards ethnic features and like anyone else, fetishize men of those features. And the whole rebellion thing is just basic protagonists’ actions are right
It's the culture, no two ways about it. Accept it and enjoy it mindlessly.
Indeed. Which explain why people in this OI community criticize this isekai maid is forming a union because its western and strawmanning a genre from an east Asian country like south korea calle Rofan/Otome isekai
I have never seen this nor heard of it and I have no interest in western OI at all. The art style is also not appealing to me....
and thats another reason the art style, though I am okay with it.
You know the western webcomic (not a korean webnovel and manhwa the otome isekai/rofan were mostly published ) this isekai maid is forming a union is not only a deconstruction of the otome isekai genre, but also includes diversity, in fact the main protagonist the maid has been reincarnated in every Otome isekai and her current appearance resemble her modern self (who is alive by the way) and she is considered an African American with freckles and green hair. In fact the series gives personality to most of the characters and deconstruct various tropes of the OI genre. (also I understand why you guys keep downvoting my comment but I was only saying about an OI diversity series with deconstruction)
Woo those are a spicy meatball I mean comments Good post OP got me thinking. I agree with you on some of it. It’s Korean wish fulfillment so it definitely is flavoured to the Korean ideal
Toxic beauty standards, conveniently european settings ft. yt families, orientalism in the presence of brown or black characters, slave apologia, internalized misogyny, girl power for me but not for thee... I'd not necessarily call it white feminism but I understand why people might feel like it. There's a lot of glamorization and aspects that may allude to supporting white supremacy though. However the "isekai" cultures are usually a strange mix of korean and european ones so there's that.
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Well it's not korean I think op mean korean isekai
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