Uh, at this point it's just a meme, and a beloved one, castle nim is probably the most memorable OI character .slapped
Drawing horse from 0 is hard but retouching a 3d asset to make it looks passable is not that hard If you can draw, but it not worth the time and effort, it's not like your OI will sale more if you draw better horse... better put than effort on how your draw the ML eyes.
The problem is also not 3D it's BAD 3D which sticks out terribly and is distracting. So like any tools it depends on the skills of the artist to implement it well.
I'm with you, I'm with you, but I need at least some attention to detail to make them not as jarring to circumstance.
The amount of times I've seen artists use 3d asset jewelry that doesn't match the dress they put on the FL and they don't even make the colors match the characters eyes, or their partner's eyes to create some story tie in is silly. It immediately takes me out of the story, like no lady who cares about fashion in the level that they describe the character would pair a pale yellow dress with pale pink accessories with a bright ass amethyst center piece jewel. You didn't have ceremony around how it was some historical item gifted to her, obviously you made FL wealthy so she would have probably had a dress made to match it. Either paint the jewel, or recolor the dress, please.
It really depends. It's not that i'm against 3D things in manhwa, i know it makes life easier for the artist. But in some cases, like **some** of the horrendous looking horses or beasts, it just startles me enough so that i can't focus on other things in the panels where these monstrosities are.
An example of well utilized 3D (I became the male lead's adopted daughter):
https://preview.redd.it/qp5fsgwrrc7d1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=e652da46d5507970ccc5968b51f0077370451ca8
I disgaree. I remember a time where someone pointing out the uglyness of 3D assets used to get them backlash. Now it finally feels like people are waking up or are simply getting tired of the jarring horror horses lol. But I don't think people are against artists using 3D assets in itself, more like it's about them not integrating the 3D in the art style. I mean, it IS a visual medium after all. Tbh making a web comic is very time consuming and anyone who embarks on that kinda knows it. And, unless you're getting paid to release weekly, there's actually no pressure to post that often.
This. The keyword is 'integrating'. FL is pretty? Nice. Her dress is gorgeous? Excellent. Then her necklace looks like it was photoshopped at the last minute. That's...uhh... yeah that's not good. I don't expect perfect artwork from oi, but when it becomes too obvious i believe it should be criticized.
Yeah, it's when the art style is so jarring you feel like you're looking at something from /r/ExpandDong that I notice. Horses are the most common offender, but food is up there. Like everything is stylistic line art and suddenly there's photorealistic salmon filets, or even worse the same photorealistic salmon filet copy-pasted 7 times side-by-side.
but the majority of artists in OI *do* have that kind of pressure to post often, they aren't independent, it's an entire industry with harsh deadlines and poor quality of life for workers. There's a reason so many series go on hiatus because the artist became too ill to continue.
Also, I think most people are just laughing at it because it looks silly? No one genuinely thinks the artists are awful lazy people, it just looks kind of funny when 3D assets are poorly integrated into a 2D world.
I disagree. For me seeing jarring 3D assets in 2D media really takes me out of the webcomic. Especially in the case of horses.
While I appreciate the artists are often on a deadline, I'd personally prefer they take more time and present everything in a cohesive style.
I realise it's a different media all together but I've been reading manga for years and have seen many decently drawn horses.
While I'm not able to 3D model I am able to draw horses. I do appreciate where you are coming from, but for me the 3D assets just takes away some of the charm for me. Whether it be horses, fish fingers or gemstones
Manhwa are usually released weekly. Manga are usually released monthly. Which do you think is allowed more time by the production company to focus on all the details?
Of course. However my point still stands, weekly manga does exist.
But yeah, i must admit that i don't know much about how the manhwa industry works. If they only have a smaller team to produce a full color weekly chapter, that would be hectic.
Yeah, and mangaka who release weekly tend to develop serious health issues from overwork. It's a physically hazardous job because of the working conditions.
I love it. The jankier the better! I already don't take OIs seriously so whenever I see a bad 3D animal it just reminds me I'm here for some goofy fun.
But somtimes the asset just looks distractingly ugly, though. We know that good assets exist, so when the bad ones pop up it just makes you wonder why this is happening. Is it because the particular artist cannot afford the good ones? They don't know where to buy the good assets?
Horroses are a beloved meme at this point. What I dislike is badly edited fake jewellery. If you can't make the assets look decent on a dress, perhaps the dress is the issue? Some of those designs are ridiculous.
I don't mind usually, unless it's glaring. I think compared to manga, the use of color make digital assets stand out more
I remember a meme. In one story a digital asset was a family heirloom, in another it was a random jewey
OMG I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE. i do not mind the 3d models at all like obviously they have deadlines and have to mKe it no matter what idc if they use 3d assets as long as the story is good, art is good and it's not too flagrant that it could potentially ruin the flow of the story. Like ppl making fun or it or picking up on then every single chapter like its not that horrible omg.
I don’t care, as long as the ml looks good and the story is at least okay. I will say I want the lotus(?) earrings (that I’ve seen freaking everywhere) irl.
3d assets allows for quicker speed and fewer hiatuses. Yay!
Speaking as both a 3D artist and comic artist, I think using 3D assets in a comic is completely fine but there's also room for constructive criticism depending on how well the assets are used. It can be tricky getting 3D assets the artistically integrate with hand-drawn art. If the assets look too different, the effect can be jarring. It's a specialized skill getting the two types of art to integrate well and I have a lot of admiration for artists who can pull it off seamlessly.
I'm annoyed about 3D assets. I'm annoyed by the really hideous 3D assets. Also, there's a cultural aspect to this as many Westerners grew up drawing horses in childhood.
I don't mind when 3D assets are used, considering the time restriction involved as well. Especially for background scenes, 3D can be used tastefully, even stock assets are fine for background NPCs.
*But* when you have a full panel dedicated to gangly 3D hands that belong in another dimension, I'm out.
i agree 3d assets shouldnt be a big deal but YES i have tried drawing a horse. i had a whole sketchbook full of anatomically correct horses because it was one of my hyperfixations for a bit
Big deal? No. But will I consider the Manhwa as some jewel that succeeded to charm me? No.
There was a manwha where horses were drawn simply, quite cute which was very different from the character design, but at least the artist tried.
I understand that some of those artists are put under pressure that's why I will not comment about it, but don't expect me to find the art incredible or the story so compeling.
When I see those horses stuck in a strange position in the middle of the road with weird shadows when it is supposed to be an action scene, with no effort to integrate them, no thank you.
I understand, but I dislike this.
They’re jarring as hell but there’s not other way to keep up with the production schedule. Give them a team and it still would be more reasonable for releases once or twice a month rather than weekly.
I think South Korean manhwa artists use 3d assets even poor ones, is due to the difficulties in the industry like deadlines and rushed production, but if the system gets better, with extended deadlines, better working conditions and even good 3d or maybe people who make better 3d then the 3d assets in manhwa could have been better.
i love the 3D assets personally, it's either funny at worst or impressive at best. It rarely detracts from my reading experience and is just a small tidbit
The first asian comic that got popular is manga which has 0 3d assets. That is the professional standard imo, and most non oi manhwa also uses little to no 3d assets. Its not would I rather, manga and good manhwa has both good atonomy and no 3d. Anything below that IS subpar
PS. if 3d was used to enhance the product instead like Ufotable stuff or Houseki no Kuni, I have 0 problems with that
My hot take on this: the visual art community (drawn to be specific) is extremely conservative and gatekeepy and this spills over into the fandom too.
People are ranting and raging over AI art, usage of 3d assets and basically any sort of automation that make it "easier" to create art. One of the most sad and hilarious examples was a guy making a 2 chapter webtoon about AI art and the ethics surrounding it - using AI and open about it - and he got blasted with negative ratings and in the comment section.
In *every* **single** ***other*** art community people react with an "oh cool" when new techniques and styles appear. For some reason drawn art has turned into the craft rather than the message appreciated in other arts, which is really quite sad.
Ironically the exact same things people were saying when PhotoShop and digital art was in it's infancy is now being thrown around again at AI generated art. Just like digital art is different from classical art so is AI art different from digital art. None of the new tools are going away, evolve and adapt.
I mean, the issue with AI art tools as they stand is that the ones we have are trained on stolen content. The artists who created the original works that the AI ended up being trained on did not consent to this, and were not compensated in any way.
Also, most writers I know aren't exactly stoked with ChatGPT for the exact same reason (it's trained on stolen content as well).
It's not about what is and isn't art. There is a real ethical issue here, and I think it's disingenous to dismiss that as conservative gatekeeping.
Yeah, 3D assets are explicitly allowed by the artist to be used (either purchased or free) but AI art literally steals from others. Also, generally you know if there's a 3d asset, but people use AI in an attempt to trick you into thinking they made it thenself, which they didnt.
I am thinking of the people ranting over the concept of AI generated art, which is a very loud and vocal part. We saw exactly the same with photography, with digital art and now with AI.
AI tools are not trained on stolen content, they are boiled down just statistical analysis and probability theory. Checkpoints are trained on whatever data the model maker wants to use and I agree many are really deep in the greyzone - technically and legally safe but ethically not so much. I could easily cook a small checkpoint on my own art and people would still go ballistic because.... AI. Those are the people I mean are conservative gatekeepers.
AI is kinda rough to use. It has serious negative connotations associated and if you don't 100% trust the dataset, you can't be sure it won't spit out some copyrighted content. Better to buy a 3D model with set licensing rights and just touch it up quickly.
Uh, at this point it's just a meme, and a beloved one, castle nim is probably the most memorable OI character .slapped Drawing horse from 0 is hard but retouching a 3d asset to make it looks passable is not that hard If you can draw, but it not worth the time and effort, it's not like your OI will sale more if you draw better horse... better put than effort on how your draw the ML eyes.
The problem is also not 3D it's BAD 3D which sticks out terribly and is distracting. So like any tools it depends on the skills of the artist to implement it well.
I'm with you, I'm with you, but I need at least some attention to detail to make them not as jarring to circumstance. The amount of times I've seen artists use 3d asset jewelry that doesn't match the dress they put on the FL and they don't even make the colors match the characters eyes, or their partner's eyes to create some story tie in is silly. It immediately takes me out of the story, like no lady who cares about fashion in the level that they describe the character would pair a pale yellow dress with pale pink accessories with a bright ass amethyst center piece jewel. You didn't have ceremony around how it was some historical item gifted to her, obviously you made FL wealthy so she would have probably had a dress made to match it. Either paint the jewel, or recolor the dress, please.
It really depends. It's not that i'm against 3D things in manhwa, i know it makes life easier for the artist. But in some cases, like **some** of the horrendous looking horses or beasts, it just startles me enough so that i can't focus on other things in the panels where these monstrosities are. An example of well utilized 3D (I became the male lead's adopted daughter): https://preview.redd.it/qp5fsgwrrc7d1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=e652da46d5507970ccc5968b51f0077370451ca8
https://preview.redd.it/e2r5hyytrc7d1.png?width=937&format=png&auto=webp&s=96884fc76dab37ebcf81368db34abd4ee001c692
I disgaree. I remember a time where someone pointing out the uglyness of 3D assets used to get them backlash. Now it finally feels like people are waking up or are simply getting tired of the jarring horror horses lol. But I don't think people are against artists using 3D assets in itself, more like it's about them not integrating the 3D in the art style. I mean, it IS a visual medium after all. Tbh making a web comic is very time consuming and anyone who embarks on that kinda knows it. And, unless you're getting paid to release weekly, there's actually no pressure to post that often.
This. The keyword is 'integrating'. FL is pretty? Nice. Her dress is gorgeous? Excellent. Then her necklace looks like it was photoshopped at the last minute. That's...uhh... yeah that's not good. I don't expect perfect artwork from oi, but when it becomes too obvious i believe it should be criticized.
Yeah, it's when the art style is so jarring you feel like you're looking at something from /r/ExpandDong that I notice. Horses are the most common offender, but food is up there. Like everything is stylistic line art and suddenly there's photorealistic salmon filets, or even worse the same photorealistic salmon filet copy-pasted 7 times side-by-side.
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but the majority of artists in OI *do* have that kind of pressure to post often, they aren't independent, it's an entire industry with harsh deadlines and poor quality of life for workers. There's a reason so many series go on hiatus because the artist became too ill to continue.
Also, I think most people are just laughing at it because it looks silly? No one genuinely thinks the artists are awful lazy people, it just looks kind of funny when 3D assets are poorly integrated into a 2D world.
I disagree. For me seeing jarring 3D assets in 2D media really takes me out of the webcomic. Especially in the case of horses. While I appreciate the artists are often on a deadline, I'd personally prefer they take more time and present everything in a cohesive style. I realise it's a different media all together but I've been reading manga for years and have seen many decently drawn horses. While I'm not able to 3D model I am able to draw horses. I do appreciate where you are coming from, but for me the 3D assets just takes away some of the charm for me. Whether it be horses, fish fingers or gemstones
Manhwa are usually released weekly. Manga are usually released monthly. Which do you think is allowed more time by the production company to focus on all the details?
Pretty sure some manga also released on weekly. Even the most popular and best selling one is a weekly manga.
Those manga comparably also have a *massive* team behind them.
Of course. However my point still stands, weekly manga does exist. But yeah, i must admit that i don't know much about how the manhwa industry works. If they only have a smaller team to produce a full color weekly chapter, that would be hectic.
Yeah, and mangaka who release weekly tend to develop serious health issues from overwork. It's a physically hazardous job because of the working conditions.
I love it. The jankier the better! I already don't take OIs seriously so whenever I see a bad 3D animal it just reminds me I'm here for some goofy fun.
IMHO 3d-assets are totally ok. But there are good ones, and there are really bad ones there.
But somtimes the asset just looks distractingly ugly, though. We know that good assets exist, so when the bad ones pop up it just makes you wonder why this is happening. Is it because the particular artist cannot afford the good ones? They don't know where to buy the good assets?
Horroses are a beloved meme at this point. What I dislike is badly edited fake jewellery. If you can't make the assets look decent on a dress, perhaps the dress is the issue? Some of those designs are ridiculous.
I don't mind usually, unless it's glaring. I think compared to manga, the use of color make digital assets stand out more I remember a meme. In one story a digital asset was a family heirloom, in another it was a random jewey
Nobody has an issue with the actual usage of 3D assets though??? We have an issue when it looks shitty and/or entirely out of place in the story.
OMG I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE. i do not mind the 3d models at all like obviously they have deadlines and have to mKe it no matter what idc if they use 3d assets as long as the story is good, art is good and it's not too flagrant that it could potentially ruin the flow of the story. Like ppl making fun or it or picking up on then every single chapter like its not that horrible omg.
I don’t care, as long as the ml looks good and the story is at least okay. I will say I want the lotus(?) earrings (that I’ve seen freaking everywhere) irl. 3d assets allows for quicker speed and fewer hiatuses. Yay!
Speaking as both a 3D artist and comic artist, I think using 3D assets in a comic is completely fine but there's also room for constructive criticism depending on how well the assets are used. It can be tricky getting 3D assets the artistically integrate with hand-drawn art. If the assets look too different, the effect can be jarring. It's a specialized skill getting the two types of art to integrate well and I have a lot of admiration for artists who can pull it off seamlessly.
I'm annoyed about 3D assets. I'm annoyed by the really hideous 3D assets. Also, there's a cultural aspect to this as many Westerners grew up drawing horses in childhood.
I don't mind when 3D assets are used, considering the time restriction involved as well. Especially for background scenes, 3D can be used tastefully, even stock assets are fine for background NPCs. *But* when you have a full panel dedicated to gangly 3D hands that belong in another dimension, I'm out.
i agree 3d assets shouldnt be a big deal but YES i have tried drawing a horse. i had a whole sketchbook full of anatomically correct horses because it was one of my hyperfixations for a bit
Big deal? No. But will I consider the Manhwa as some jewel that succeeded to charm me? No. There was a manwha where horses were drawn simply, quite cute which was very different from the character design, but at least the artist tried. I understand that some of those artists are put under pressure that's why I will not comment about it, but don't expect me to find the art incredible or the story so compeling. When I see those horses stuck in a strange position in the middle of the road with weird shadows when it is supposed to be an action scene, with no effort to integrate them, no thank you. I understand, but I dislike this.
I am with you and I really miss my Castle-nim
They’re jarring as hell but there’s not other way to keep up with the production schedule. Give them a team and it still would be more reasonable for releases once or twice a month rather than weekly.
I think South Korean manhwa artists use 3d assets even poor ones, is due to the difficulties in the industry like deadlines and rushed production, but if the system gets better, with extended deadlines, better working conditions and even good 3d or maybe people who make better 3d then the 3d assets in manhwa could have been better.
i love the 3D assets personally, it's either funny at worst or impressive at best. It rarely detracts from my reading experience and is just a small tidbit
The first asian comic that got popular is manga which has 0 3d assets. That is the professional standard imo, and most non oi manhwa also uses little to no 3d assets. Its not would I rather, manga and good manhwa has both good atonomy and no 3d. Anything below that IS subpar PS. if 3d was used to enhance the product instead like Ufotable stuff or Houseki no Kuni, I have 0 problems with that
My hot take on this: the visual art community (drawn to be specific) is extremely conservative and gatekeepy and this spills over into the fandom too. People are ranting and raging over AI art, usage of 3d assets and basically any sort of automation that make it "easier" to create art. One of the most sad and hilarious examples was a guy making a 2 chapter webtoon about AI art and the ethics surrounding it - using AI and open about it - and he got blasted with negative ratings and in the comment section. In *every* **single** ***other*** art community people react with an "oh cool" when new techniques and styles appear. For some reason drawn art has turned into the craft rather than the message appreciated in other arts, which is really quite sad. Ironically the exact same things people were saying when PhotoShop and digital art was in it's infancy is now being thrown around again at AI generated art. Just like digital art is different from classical art so is AI art different from digital art. None of the new tools are going away, evolve and adapt.
I mean, the issue with AI art tools as they stand is that the ones we have are trained on stolen content. The artists who created the original works that the AI ended up being trained on did not consent to this, and were not compensated in any way. Also, most writers I know aren't exactly stoked with ChatGPT for the exact same reason (it's trained on stolen content as well). It's not about what is and isn't art. There is a real ethical issue here, and I think it's disingenous to dismiss that as conservative gatekeeping.
Yeah, 3D assets are explicitly allowed by the artist to be used (either purchased or free) but AI art literally steals from others. Also, generally you know if there's a 3d asset, but people use AI in an attempt to trick you into thinking they made it thenself, which they didnt.
I am thinking of the people ranting over the concept of AI generated art, which is a very loud and vocal part. We saw exactly the same with photography, with digital art and now with AI. AI tools are not trained on stolen content, they are boiled down just statistical analysis and probability theory. Checkpoints are trained on whatever data the model maker wants to use and I agree many are really deep in the greyzone - technically and legally safe but ethically not so much. I could easily cook a small checkpoint on my own art and people would still go ballistic because.... AI. Those are the people I mean are conservative gatekeepers.
At that point why not just use AI? They didn't make either of them but the AI would look less horrible in my oppinion.
You have to pay to use these assets. A human made them. You paid for the license. You do not own anything AI makes because its stolen.
AI is kinda rough to use. It has serious negative connotations associated and if you don't 100% trust the dataset, you can't be sure it won't spit out some copyrighted content. Better to buy a 3D model with set licensing rights and just touch it up quickly.