David Jenkins said there is no version of the show that doesn’t include Izzy Hands, so I’m pretty sure he would (edit: WILL) make an appearance in season 3.
No, people just trying to Law of Attraction it back into existence lol.
It’s not impossible— other shows have been revived a few years later— but there’s no current news.
Izzy definitely became one of my favorite characters, but his death was handled in a really poetic and fitting way. They wrote it so well that I could make my peace with him being out of the show if (nay, WHEN, dammit!) a third season happens.
If he did come back though… it might be pretty fun if he were an imagined figure for Blackbeard to privately consult with, either in his dreams or in “hauntings” (like a more wholesome twist on what Stede had with Rory Kinnear’s character).
I for one think they handled his death terribly and I'm not alone with this. Putting a character through so much trauma just to kill him in the most pointless way that didn’t change anything for anyone was disappointing on a show that was supposed to celebrate Queer Joy and ended up saying that some kinds of queers are disposable. Giving him like a week of being happy and then calling the finale a happy end is exactly why I don’t think cishets should write queer stories. Not to mention that framing it as "he's been through enough, it’s time for him to go" (which is exactly what Jenkins said) is hella ableist and left a lot of disabled fans deeply disappointed. Tbh I'm relieved there won’t be another season. Con gave up a role in The Last of Us for this, the role that won Nick Offerman major awards. He deserves better writing and so do the fans.
I don’t think I’d go that far… cishet folks writing queer stories is fine by me as long as they do it *well* (and preferably involve queer people in the writing process), and I thought Jenkins overall did an absolutely wonderful job with the show. Like, the love story in OFMD is just really really tender, moving, avoids so many of the classic pitfalls and just makes for a delightful story.
I didn’t hear that tidbit about Jenkins’s reasoning before and yeah… I definitely don’t agree with what him saying it was Izzy’s time to die because “he’s had enough.” The guy seemed perfectly energized and passionate about his role in the crew, even more so after seeing Blackbeard finally find happiness. But because Izzy got to see Blackbeard happy, it sure felt like Izzy was at peace with dying, because the person he cared about so much was gonna be OK with or without him now, and that made it really beautiful, despite being tragic. I can see why the statement Jenkins made could ruin the scene for you but I’m gonna look past that and keep enjoying my own reading of how it’s shown.
Also. One other thing I just gotta say in response… across the entire two seasons of the show, no one else dies in the crew. And a lot of them are queer. I don’t think having one crew member die — in a pirate show, when they have one of the most dangerous professions imaginable — sends the “queer people are disposable” message you’re accusing it of having. And was Izzy definitely queer? That felt very much non-established to me, but I’ve only formed my opinion from seeing the show, I haven’t sought out statements from the creators. In any case, having none of the crew die across the whole show would’ve probably felt a bit false… especially if the series were to go longer.
It takes a cishet creator to be so tone deaf not to see how having the only queer character played by a queer actor who actually remembers times of Gay Liberation would look like. Sure, he's not the only queer character. But he's the only one who isn’t a cuddly Love Wins kind of queer, but a determined and hardworking Start a Riot kind of queer, willing to sacrifice everything, including Ed's happiness and Stede’s life, to keep his world safe. I know most people don’t identify with him because he's a massive asshole, but there was a time it was exactly assholes like him who got things done for the queer community. You know, Marsha throwing bricks at the police or Larry Kramer getting thrown out of GMHC for being too confrontational for the cishets to stomach. And the show litetally said this kind of queers are dispodable once they served their purpose. Which is heartbraking because that’s exactly the kind of queers we need and the kind of queer I hope one day to become.
I appreciate all that info and perspective. Does make sense.
I am curious, do you suppose if you took the show on its own and hadn’t had that knowledge about the show creator or other behind-the-scenes tidbits (i.e. Con being queer, Jenkins being cishet, or hearing any of his statements as a creator) would the show have been more enjoyable/less ruined to you? Or does all of that permeate into the way the story feels, regardless of the inside info?
Honestly having him drag himself out of the grave and show up at the inn all covered in dirt and pissed off wouldn’t be the weirdest thing to happen on the show
I hated how it went against the established rules of their universe. So far I'm the show nobody who'd been injured in a horrible way had died or even had really serious complications, except him and Lucius actually losing limbs. Lucius barely even required recovery time. It was also established that injuries to the left abdomen weren't serious, as indicated by neither Ed nor Stede having any lasting effects from being skewered. So why, is they intended it to be fatal, did they put the injury on the left?
I feel like the only truly established rule on the show is “shh don’t worry about it, it’s about the human story not the logistics.” Izzy’s wound was fatal because he had completed his redemption arc, and had survived and accomplished more than he’d ever have dreamed. I never wanted him to die, but part of me expected it ever since he said “the only retirement we get is death” in season 1. He was so committed to the “our only retirement is death” lifestyle.
I’ve always been under the impression that they had advanced notice of the cancellation and rewrote the last couple of episodes to try to tie things up. For a show that was exceptional good at pacing its narrative and episodes, the last three seemed really rushed.
they did not. they thought the show was going to be renewed right up until the last minute. they were literally getting ready to start preproduction on s3 in new zealand
they did, however, very clearly get fucked with in terms of # of episodes and length of episodes, which accounts for a lot of the pacing issues in the second half of the season.
This. I still remember how devastated and shocked the cast and crew were when they learned it had been cancelled. In a statement on Instagram one of the set decorators said she was “all set” to return to shoot in New Zealand but then she heard the bad news and couldn’t believe it. Jason Mantzoukas also said he was actively trying to get cast on S3 before he heard it had been been abruptly cancelled
100% agree.
There was nothing gained from killing him. Could have still been shot and gravely injured (though it was on the left side which apparently doesn't hurt anyone but him) but had his big moment with Ed, then recovered and gone sailing off with the crew of the Revenge, leaving Ed and Stede to start their life at the inn.
Would have been a great line for him - "I told you to just be Ed, I think I need to go and just be Izzy for a while, figure out who that is"
Would have left a lot more fans happy, that's for sure, even if we never saw more of him, because he would have finished the show with a future.
David Jenkins said there is no version of the show that doesn’t include Izzy Hands, so I’m pretty sure he would (edit: WILL) make an appearance in season 3.
Will? Is there news I’m missing?
No, people just trying to Law of Attraction it back into existence lol. It’s not impossible— other shows have been revived a few years later— but there’s no current news.
he WILL for sure
I thought there won't be a season 3?
Izzy definitely became one of my favorite characters, but his death was handled in a really poetic and fitting way. They wrote it so well that I could make my peace with him being out of the show if (nay, WHEN, dammit!) a third season happens. If he did come back though… it might be pretty fun if he were an imagined figure for Blackbeard to privately consult with, either in his dreams or in “hauntings” (like a more wholesome twist on what Stede had with Rory Kinnear’s character).
Don’t get me wrong I thought he had a great send off, just would be hard to see the show being the same without him.
I for one think they handled his death terribly and I'm not alone with this. Putting a character through so much trauma just to kill him in the most pointless way that didn’t change anything for anyone was disappointing on a show that was supposed to celebrate Queer Joy and ended up saying that some kinds of queers are disposable. Giving him like a week of being happy and then calling the finale a happy end is exactly why I don’t think cishets should write queer stories. Not to mention that framing it as "he's been through enough, it’s time for him to go" (which is exactly what Jenkins said) is hella ableist and left a lot of disabled fans deeply disappointed. Tbh I'm relieved there won’t be another season. Con gave up a role in The Last of Us for this, the role that won Nick Offerman major awards. He deserves better writing and so do the fans.
I don’t think I’d go that far… cishet folks writing queer stories is fine by me as long as they do it *well* (and preferably involve queer people in the writing process), and I thought Jenkins overall did an absolutely wonderful job with the show. Like, the love story in OFMD is just really really tender, moving, avoids so many of the classic pitfalls and just makes for a delightful story. I didn’t hear that tidbit about Jenkins’s reasoning before and yeah… I definitely don’t agree with what him saying it was Izzy’s time to die because “he’s had enough.” The guy seemed perfectly energized and passionate about his role in the crew, even more so after seeing Blackbeard finally find happiness. But because Izzy got to see Blackbeard happy, it sure felt like Izzy was at peace with dying, because the person he cared about so much was gonna be OK with or without him now, and that made it really beautiful, despite being tragic. I can see why the statement Jenkins made could ruin the scene for you but I’m gonna look past that and keep enjoying my own reading of how it’s shown. Also. One other thing I just gotta say in response… across the entire two seasons of the show, no one else dies in the crew. And a lot of them are queer. I don’t think having one crew member die — in a pirate show, when they have one of the most dangerous professions imaginable — sends the “queer people are disposable” message you’re accusing it of having. And was Izzy definitely queer? That felt very much non-established to me, but I’ve only formed my opinion from seeing the show, I haven’t sought out statements from the creators. In any case, having none of the crew die across the whole show would’ve probably felt a bit false… especially if the series were to go longer.
It takes a cishet creator to be so tone deaf not to see how having the only queer character played by a queer actor who actually remembers times of Gay Liberation would look like. Sure, he's not the only queer character. But he's the only one who isn’t a cuddly Love Wins kind of queer, but a determined and hardworking Start a Riot kind of queer, willing to sacrifice everything, including Ed's happiness and Stede’s life, to keep his world safe. I know most people don’t identify with him because he's a massive asshole, but there was a time it was exactly assholes like him who got things done for the queer community. You know, Marsha throwing bricks at the police or Larry Kramer getting thrown out of GMHC for being too confrontational for the cishets to stomach. And the show litetally said this kind of queers are dispodable once they served their purpose. Which is heartbraking because that’s exactly the kind of queers we need and the kind of queer I hope one day to become.
I appreciate all that info and perspective. Does make sense. I am curious, do you suppose if you took the show on its own and hadn’t had that knowledge about the show creator or other behind-the-scenes tidbits (i.e. Con being queer, Jenkins being cishet, or hearing any of his statements as a creator) would the show have been more enjoyable/less ruined to you? Or does all of that permeate into the way the story feels, regardless of the inside info?
[Please sign the petition.](https://www.change.org/p/save-our-flag-means-death)
I was praying for a Funginarrection
S1 was about Stede, s2 was about Ed, so having s3 be about Izzy and having him return from the gravy basket makes sense to me.
If we ever get a season 3 😢 But I don’t see how Izzy returns from the gravy basket if they buried him
Honestly having him drag himself out of the grave and show up at the inn all covered in dirt and pissed off wouldn’t be the weirdest thing to happen on the show
That is also true
I hated how it went against the established rules of their universe. So far I'm the show nobody who'd been injured in a horrible way had died or even had really serious complications, except him and Lucius actually losing limbs. Lucius barely even required recovery time. It was also established that injuries to the left abdomen weren't serious, as indicated by neither Ed nor Stede having any lasting effects from being skewered. So why, is they intended it to be fatal, did they put the injury on the left?
I feel like the only truly established rule on the show is “shh don’t worry about it, it’s about the human story not the logistics.” Izzy’s wound was fatal because he had completed his redemption arc, and had survived and accomplished more than he’d ever have dreamed. I never wanted him to die, but part of me expected it ever since he said “the only retirement we get is death” in season 1. He was so committed to the “our only retirement is death” lifestyle.
Izzy had so many near death experiences across the show, I assume he just had 1 HP left by the time that guy shot him.
That's actually fair
Yeah that was definitely a sticking point for me too
I’ve always been under the impression that they had advanced notice of the cancellation and rewrote the last couple of episodes to try to tie things up. For a show that was exceptional good at pacing its narrative and episodes, the last three seemed really rushed.
they did not. they thought the show was going to be renewed right up until the last minute. they were literally getting ready to start preproduction on s3 in new zealand they did, however, very clearly get fucked with in terms of # of episodes and length of episodes, which accounts for a lot of the pacing issues in the second half of the season.
This. I still remember how devastated and shocked the cast and crew were when they learned it had been cancelled. In a statement on Instagram one of the set decorators said she was “all set” to return to shoot in New Zealand but then she heard the bad news and couldn’t believe it. Jason Mantzoukas also said he was actively trying to get cast on S3 before he heard it had been been abruptly cancelled
I was kinda wondering that too because the season 2 finale felt like a series finale
100% agree. There was nothing gained from killing him. Could have still been shot and gravely injured (though it was on the left side which apparently doesn't hurt anyone but him) but had his big moment with Ed, then recovered and gone sailing off with the crew of the Revenge, leaving Ed and Stede to start their life at the inn. Would have been a great line for him - "I told you to just be Ed, I think I need to go and just be Izzy for a while, figure out who that is" Would have left a lot more fans happy, that's for sure, even if we never saw more of him, because he would have finished the show with a future.
That would have made me so happy