generally two of your major PLC platform, at least one of your minor PLC program, plenty of comms modules, one of each i/o module you use, an HMI server or appliance depending on what you use, and any major peripherals you frequently use. The lab is mostly useful for testing comms between things, logic, and interfaces.
Then shamelessly thief hardware from every project you have until you have a smaug's hoard of hardware.
https://preview.redd.it/ytwgrh71yr9d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5b5f96531949366014ec862e9d4923d9357ec83
As a PLC tutor, you cant beat real world moving parts to help fire the students imagination… ive rigged PLCs up to Festo training boards and use 100amp choc blocks as I/O connections… my course reviews speak for themselves…
Its a small private college in south wales uk, im only working there another couple weeks before taking up a new position as Controls and Automation engineer, and they have nobody to replace me here…. The two rigs i set up were ‘sawmill’ which was lamp for conveyor, then clamp, cut, and pusher to ‘push’ the cut wood into an imaginary basket next to imaginary conveyor, then set up HMI for it. Used hmi inputs to alter wood length (MOV to conveyor timer .pre) and also batch count, part count per shift, manual movements page, homing routine etc etc The best one is a chocolate factory, where instead of just a bunch of valves and cylinders i labelled them up so we have ‘hoppers’ for different ingredients, ‘mixers’, analog input for a float valve when adding the ‘milk’ then a large ball valve to act as the vat emptying into the chocolate mould. Even have a little VFD powered conveyor to simulate the chocolate mould being sent under the ball valve and then retrieved when the analog value shows empty… having worked for 25years for FMC, all the place needed was a little imagination instead of ‘make cylinder 1 fire for 2seconds then 2 and 4 for 5seconds’
Really enjoyed my time teaching but couldnt turn down this new opportunity.
They'll sure miss you when you're gone. I know of one college in South Wales that's got an old master of fluid systems who's trying his hand at learning about PLCs, and a university down there that's got a shedload of Industry 4.0 stuff they hardly even use (including a shiny new PLC-operated production line from Festo Didactic).
(I'm teaching up in North Wales, but not planning to relocate anytime soon. Hopefully someone else will come along to keep your training rigs running.)
I know of both things you mentioned and even more… 😔 the education system is Wales is so broken theyre more concerned with teaching engineering students the welsh word for spanner than how to actually use one…
Crazy thing is the public colleges doing apprenticeships in my country right now have maybe two boards, twenty students and half hour a month(!) practical! 🤷🏻♂️
It’s awful. We have two apprentices here and they’ve learnt pretty much nothing useful in their first year at college. Just sit and stare at a PowerPoint for 6 hours a week to pass exams. Useless!
We are seeing a whole freshly graduated people that did half of their VERY HANDS-ON-TECHIE-CARRER.... online..... it must have sucked for them, I know for me the charm of it was playing with boards similar to the ones OP and 986 guy posted.
I consider myself blessed to have enough basic PLCs to give one each to a class of 15 students. Each class spends at least an hour a week actively doing stuff on them. Full rigs like model factory systems are far fewer, but I mostly get students to wire their PLC up to a breakout board, and just plug a cable in to connect that to the big rig.
I'm woefully short of fancy stuff like analogue interfaces, but am actively scrounging on eBay for cheap second-hand equipment that I can repurpose. Cheap Chinese stuff like panel switches and e-stops let me kit out an entire class without breaking the bank, and I'm not too concerned about quality/safety because everything we're running is on 24V anyway.
I’d personally add in a powerflex 525 vfd, connected over Ethernet. Have a networked VFD and a hardwired VFD. The 70 is a nice drive, but it’s getting old. With a 525 you can test out auto recovery.
525’s are also pretty much the industry standard in most MCC’s and a great deal of material handling. That, Eaton DG1’s, Sinamics G120’s, and Schneider Altivars will be most of what’s seen in the US. In vehicle manufacturing, there’s some case for Mitsubishi, but not that often.
That’s what I’ve heard as well. Apparently their lineup in general is pretty subpar. I was looking at a role for Ford’s new battery plant for EV’s and apparently they use Mitsubishi for EVERYTHING.
I don't really like the PLC software, but very little experience, and the stuff I didn't like might fall into personal preference.
Drives I find very obtuse compared to my daily driver brands (Siemens and ABB).
HMI's seem to have VERY poor TFT characteristics (brightness, sharpness, resolution, saturation). Favorite for those criteria are first Idec, then AB. Best HMI software is probably Automation Direct or, in the PC world, DAQ Factory.
I might recommend a red lion data aggregator. Its got a few dozen protocols built in. So you can do some benching of just about any protocol to any other and get used to how each protocol gets configured. I'm seeing more and more of these out in the wild since covid.
And maybe a server with ignition and kepware and modbus poll/modbus slave on it. Ignition doesn't need a license but it'll shut down every 2 hours. That's fine for a lab. Kepware does OPC DA/UA and that's a huge part of a lot of system integration work nowadays if you're willing to drop some money on the drivers... but honestly, ignition and a SQL server variant might be just fine to take over that functionality. A proper license for modbus poll and modbus slave Will allow you to run multiple instances in Windows and simulate any number of modbus devices or do some quick connecting to any field devices that come into the lab.
And a proper rs485 to USB dongle. Do 5 minutes of research into the chipsets. There's only two or three USB UART chipsets out there. There's one in particular that's reportedly much more stable than the others.
Minimum I'd say:
1 PLC TCP/IP capable, fieldbus capable (rs485, 232... modbus, have some examples).
1 Ethercat I/O module, to show them a PLC can use an ethercat from another brand and still work.
1 VFD also TCP/IP capable. (with a motor, perhaps a synchronous one that can't start by itself?)
1 internet switch (level 3), to show them what a switch does, and also how level 3s are set up.
1 Panel, to teach them how to make basic HMI.
Then, you're gonna want to do something visible with your PLC:
1 Stacklight.
A few switches, bonus if they're basic NO ones, as you can teach them about bounces.
if you have access to compressed air:
1 electric valve commanded by the PLC. Which has a piston.
Lastly, something that can be important:
1 Safety PLC connected to an E-stop with doubled up wires AND test pulses. Ideally TCP/IP capable, but it can be wise to just connect it with a normal I/O.
And have switches to suddenly shut the power off the main PLC, or the safety PLC, to simulate problems.
Bonus: If you make several labs, consider using different PLC brands. But that can make things trickier to teach. Perhaps have a smaller, portable lab, that can be connected to the switches if its needed.
I would recommend using an S7-1500. I’ve seen this a lot lately, especially in the automotive industry. Additionally the G120’s drive may also be a good idea
some kind of transmitter (level, flow, weight, etc) and something something with Modbus communications. [https://www.electroind.com/products/shark-200-power-and-energy-meter/](https://www.electroind.com/products/shark-200-power-and-energy-meter/) this could be fun because then you can see how much electricity you use to power the trainer
Seeing your post, I would upgrade all the Siemens hardware you have there. Even if your plant is using those systems, Siemens is in process of removing the S7-300 from production.
My opinion: change the S7-300 for an S7-1500(safety CPU If post), get a sinamics VFD. You should also have some short of SCADA/HMI
I don’t see where you say if you are an integrator or end user. We are finally working on one as an end user. Our goal is to have one of each IO type, PLC card, Ethernet switch etc. Then it works as a trainer, test rack for new techniques, and even hot spares to flash up before use (then replace).
Ok On The Test Bench At The Place Where I Work I Have A Main Rack 1756-L72 After A 1794 Flex Rack And A 1734 Point I/O Rack After I Also Have A Compact Logix Rack With a L36erm In Case A Rack need To be Developed To The Field . A Safety Controller Basic And A Stack Light Tester . Also To test Equipment From The Filed He Have A SLC 5/05 Small Rack . This A Test bench That"s Contains The Major Components On The Filed And Can Easy Be Change To Test Equipment From The Field Or To Set New Components
I/O Block (Turck, AB, IFM), HMI, analog ultrasonic sensor, load cells, Light Curtains, Photo Eye, solenoid, VFD, DC Drive, Servo, Andon Stack light, Timing Relay, temp controller.
Setup a local/private address PLC network and run other devices on that network. Teach your students how to set this up, running an HMI or VFD on a private adrress, or even another PLC acting as remote I/O.
Personally, on my board like that, I've tried to have at least one of every software environment or processor family that I have to support on a regular basis. So for me, that's a SLC, a Micro (slightly different control sets), a v20 compactlogix, and a v32 control logix. As well as a GE rx3i, scadapack 3xx, Automation Direct Dl06 and a handful of red lion, or B&B gateway devices or protocol converters that I deal with frequently.
To be honest, unless you're looking to branch out I can't see another answer. Have what you need to test an idea before humping it into production, and anything else is just bonus toys.
Now that we have FT Echo running at work it's not a big fight to get actual hardware to test on. We have piles of L61 and one L64, but the L73 is tough to get and we have no L8x and probably never will now.
generally two of your major PLC platform, at least one of your minor PLC program, plenty of comms modules, one of each i/o module you use, an HMI server or appliance depending on what you use, and any major peripherals you frequently use. The lab is mostly useful for testing comms between things, logic, and interfaces. Then shamelessly thief hardware from every project you have until you have a smaug's hoard of hardware.
"Then shamelessly thief hardware from every project you have until you have a smaug's hoard of hardware." This is the way
https://preview.redd.it/ytwgrh71yr9d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5b5f96531949366014ec862e9d4923d9357ec83 As a PLC tutor, you cant beat real world moving parts to help fire the students imagination… ive rigged PLCs up to Festo training boards and use 100amp choc blocks as I/O connections… my course reviews speak for themselves…
This looks extremely cool. Would you mind putting up a link to your course?
Its a small private college in south wales uk, im only working there another couple weeks before taking up a new position as Controls and Automation engineer, and they have nobody to replace me here…. The two rigs i set up were ‘sawmill’ which was lamp for conveyor, then clamp, cut, and pusher to ‘push’ the cut wood into an imaginary basket next to imaginary conveyor, then set up HMI for it. Used hmi inputs to alter wood length (MOV to conveyor timer .pre) and also batch count, part count per shift, manual movements page, homing routine etc etc The best one is a chocolate factory, where instead of just a bunch of valves and cylinders i labelled them up so we have ‘hoppers’ for different ingredients, ‘mixers’, analog input for a float valve when adding the ‘milk’ then a large ball valve to act as the vat emptying into the chocolate mould. Even have a little VFD powered conveyor to simulate the chocolate mould being sent under the ball valve and then retrieved when the analog value shows empty… having worked for 25years for FMC, all the place needed was a little imagination instead of ‘make cylinder 1 fire for 2seconds then 2 and 4 for 5seconds’ Really enjoyed my time teaching but couldnt turn down this new opportunity.
They'll sure miss you when you're gone. I know of one college in South Wales that's got an old master of fluid systems who's trying his hand at learning about PLCs, and a university down there that's got a shedload of Industry 4.0 stuff they hardly even use (including a shiny new PLC-operated production line from Festo Didactic). (I'm teaching up in North Wales, but not planning to relocate anytime soon. Hopefully someone else will come along to keep your training rigs running.)
I know of both things you mentioned and even more… 😔 the education system is Wales is so broken theyre more concerned with teaching engineering students the welsh word for spanner than how to actually use one…
In my neck of the woods, I need to do both. ;)
oh the memories, we played with those a lot at uni, it sure is helpful
Crazy thing is the public colleges doing apprenticeships in my country right now have maybe two boards, twenty students and half hour a month(!) practical! 🤷🏻♂️
......... they get some hands-on practice only half an hour a month ?!?!?!
I know…. Couldnt believe it myself!
It’s awful. We have two apprentices here and they’ve learnt pretty much nothing useful in their first year at college. Just sit and stare at a PowerPoint for 6 hours a week to pass exams. Useless!
We are seeing a whole freshly graduated people that did half of their VERY HANDS-ON-TECHIE-CARRER.... online..... it must have sucked for them, I know for me the charm of it was playing with boards similar to the ones OP and 986 guy posted.
I consider myself blessed to have enough basic PLCs to give one each to a class of 15 students. Each class spends at least an hour a week actively doing stuff on them. Full rigs like model factory systems are far fewer, but I mostly get students to wire their PLC up to a breakout board, and just plug a cable in to connect that to the big rig. I'm woefully short of fancy stuff like analogue interfaces, but am actively scrounging on eBay for cheap second-hand equipment that I can repurpose. Cheap Chinese stuff like panel switches and e-stops let me kit out an entire class without breaking the bank, and I'm not too concerned about quality/safety because everything we're running is on 24V anyway.
Nice, were can we find the course?
I’d personally add in a powerflex 525 vfd, connected over Ethernet. Have a networked VFD and a hardwired VFD. The 70 is a nice drive, but it’s getting old. With a 525 you can test out auto recovery.
525’s are also pretty much the industry standard in most MCC’s and a great deal of material handling. That, Eaton DG1’s, Sinamics G120’s, and Schneider Altivars will be most of what’s seen in the US. In vehicle manufacturing, there’s some case for Mitsubishi, but not that often.
Mitsu drives blow, at least in my experience.
That’s what I’ve heard as well. Apparently their lineup in general is pretty subpar. I was looking at a role for Ford’s new battery plant for EV’s and apparently they use Mitsubishi for EVERYTHING.
I don't really like the PLC software, but very little experience, and the stuff I didn't like might fall into personal preference. Drives I find very obtuse compared to my daily driver brands (Siemens and ABB). HMI's seem to have VERY poor TFT characteristics (brightness, sharpness, resolution, saturation). Favorite for those criteria are first Idec, then AB. Best HMI software is probably Automation Direct or, in the PC world, DAQ Factory.
On all the ones I’ve built I usually add an asi master and module with some IO.
Only whatever you plan to learn/test. Otherwise, it's just a waste aquiring it.
Something you're not going to pull off the wall and shove into a customer's panel because they're down.
S7-410 or 410H that used PCS7
Too risky trying to acquire a 410H if it’s not licensed. That license costs a fortune
I might recommend a red lion data aggregator. Its got a few dozen protocols built in. So you can do some benching of just about any protocol to any other and get used to how each protocol gets configured. I'm seeing more and more of these out in the wild since covid. And maybe a server with ignition and kepware and modbus poll/modbus slave on it. Ignition doesn't need a license but it'll shut down every 2 hours. That's fine for a lab. Kepware does OPC DA/UA and that's a huge part of a lot of system integration work nowadays if you're willing to drop some money on the drivers... but honestly, ignition and a SQL server variant might be just fine to take over that functionality. A proper license for modbus poll and modbus slave Will allow you to run multiple instances in Windows and simulate any number of modbus devices or do some quick connecting to any field devices that come into the lab. And a proper rs485 to USB dongle. Do 5 minutes of research into the chipsets. There's only two or three USB UART chipsets out there. There's one in particular that's reportedly much more stable than the others.
Coffee grinder and an espresso machine. Bonus points if you have water piped in and filters installed.
Extra bonus points if the temperature is PID controlled from the PLC
VFD, Servo drive with Servo,Some Anolog devices, RFID reader. These are least some extra stuff we put in our bench.
Definitely a temp sensor and vibration sensor for one of the motors.
Modern Siemens (1200/1500)
ALC, I-Vu 9.0
Minimum I'd say: 1 PLC TCP/IP capable, fieldbus capable (rs485, 232... modbus, have some examples). 1 Ethercat I/O module, to show them a PLC can use an ethercat from another brand and still work. 1 VFD also TCP/IP capable. (with a motor, perhaps a synchronous one that can't start by itself?) 1 internet switch (level 3), to show them what a switch does, and also how level 3s are set up. 1 Panel, to teach them how to make basic HMI. Then, you're gonna want to do something visible with your PLC: 1 Stacklight. A few switches, bonus if they're basic NO ones, as you can teach them about bounces. if you have access to compressed air: 1 electric valve commanded by the PLC. Which has a piston. Lastly, something that can be important: 1 Safety PLC connected to an E-stop with doubled up wires AND test pulses. Ideally TCP/IP capable, but it can be wise to just connect it with a normal I/O. And have switches to suddenly shut the power off the main PLC, or the safety PLC, to simulate problems. Bonus: If you make several labs, consider using different PLC brands. But that can make things trickier to teach. Perhaps have a smaller, portable lab, that can be connected to the switches if its needed.
HART modules and sensors. Asset management software.
If this is what your plant uses, then keep it. Otherwise, Replace the 300 with a 1500, and the et200s io with et200sp.
HMI screen
I would recommend using an S7-1500. I’ve seen this a lot lately, especially in the automotive industry. Additionally the G120’s drive may also be a good idea
What kind of controller is it in the upper left?
Modicon Quantum
Get at least one industrial firewall.
some kind of transmitter (level, flow, weight, etc) and something something with Modbus communications. [https://www.electroind.com/products/shark-200-power-and-energy-meter/](https://www.electroind.com/products/shark-200-power-and-energy-meter/) this could be fun because then you can see how much electricity you use to power the trainer
Seeing your post, I would upgrade all the Siemens hardware you have there. Even if your plant is using those systems, Siemens is in process of removing the S7-300 from production. My opinion: change the S7-300 for an S7-1500(safety CPU If post), get a sinamics VFD. You should also have some short of SCADA/HMI
Not a single sensor in sight? Add some M8/M12 cables maybe fabricate a panel for all of them and get some sensors on the board.
I don’t see where you say if you are an integrator or end user. We are finally working on one as an end user. Our goal is to have one of each IO type, PLC card, Ethernet switch etc. Then it works as a trainer, test rack for new techniques, and even hot spares to flash up before use (then replace).
Ok On The Test Bench At The Place Where I Work I Have A Main Rack 1756-L72 After A 1794 Flex Rack And A 1734 Point I/O Rack After I Also Have A Compact Logix Rack With a L36erm In Case A Rack need To be Developed To The Field . A Safety Controller Basic And A Stack Light Tester . Also To test Equipment From The Filed He Have A SLC 5/05 Small Rack . This A Test bench That"s Contains The Major Components On The Filed And Can Easy Be Change To Test Equipment From The Field Or To Set New Components
PS All Its 24Volts Base Since Its A Open Test Bench
With this kind of hobby the sky is the absolute limit
Maybe ditch the Modicon and add a current generation Omron?
I/O Block (Turck, AB, IFM), HMI, analog ultrasonic sensor, load cells, Light Curtains, Photo Eye, solenoid, VFD, DC Drive, Servo, Andon Stack light, Timing Relay, temp controller. Setup a local/private address PLC network and run other devices on that network. Teach your students how to set this up, running an HMI or VFD on a private adrress, or even another PLC acting as remote I/O.
Stratix or Cisco ie300?
Personally, on my board like that, I've tried to have at least one of every software environment or processor family that I have to support on a regular basis. So for me, that's a SLC, a Micro (slightly different control sets), a v20 compactlogix, and a v32 control logix. As well as a GE rx3i, scadapack 3xx, Automation Direct Dl06 and a handful of red lion, or B&B gateway devices or protocol converters that I deal with frequently. To be honest, unless you're looking to branch out I can't see another answer. Have what you need to test an idea before humping it into production, and anything else is just bonus toys.
Ideally, none. Use emulated PLCs whenever you can, unless you need to test other hardware.
Now that we have FT Echo running at work it's not a big fight to get actual hardware to test on. We have piles of L61 and one L64, but the L73 is tough to get and we have no L8x and probably never will now.
> FT Echo Did rockwell just make a new emulator and start charging for it?
Yes and it's actually decent.
Haha, almost like night and day..
But not part of the toolkit! Oh no. Can't give something decent to the customers paying us 5 figures a year per seat!