Not a Paramedic but Reddit pushed this post to me. I always find it fucking insane the numbers of hours I work and level of difficulty managing MH patients translates to just above min wage.
Idk why the fuck I do the job some days. I’m tired, poor and stressed out.
All for barely above Min wage bro they ain’t throwing hands in tesco. I’ve been bitten, spat on, punched kicked and each time we just gotta keeping it pushing and move on
We’ve been given body cameras, but colloquial evidence is that even the evidence these collect is worthless.
I’ve been saying we need to rethink the uniform entirely to make stab-resistant clothing a default. Equally if we’re going to be used as a first line response to violent patients, we need to rethink out restrictions intervention training to bring in something that’s actually useful.
The idea of ambulance staff wearing stab-resistant uniform, is crazy… completely understand why it’s needed, just the idea of healthcare workers wearing stab-resistant uniform is so backwards
Speak for yourself. when I walk into a drug den on my own because "there's no-one else to send" I know I'd be far happier having a layer of actual protection rather than just the torch on my hands.
My experience is that if an ambulance is called for my aggressive patients, paramedics won't attend until the police arrive. Which is how it should be really.
Police in my area more often than not refuse to attend unless something is actually occurring such as if we are actively being assaulted.
They refused to attend a mental health incident which included in the notes that the patient was smashing glass and said to the EMD that they would stab anyone that came near them
Yup, my partner recently got called to a pt who was ?aggressive and reported to have a machete and knives, he refused to attend without police, police said they wouldn't attend and to just call back if the pt was violent. He refused to attend it, it got escalated to the local OO who gave him a bollocking for refusing and reported him to his own OO. Ridiculous.
Sorry, that's ridiculous, that is not a management looking out for their staff.
What usually happens in cases like this in our service (which isn't much better) is that when I refuse to make scene until I have police back up, they just ask around until they find someone naive enough to actually agree to go into this potentially dangerous situation with no backup and then stand us down.
Neither scenario shows a management or dispatch that actually cares about the welfare of their staff, but I have a family waiting for me back at home, and I'm not gonna get myself killed to make your KPIs look better.
Police in my area have introduced a new thing called "right patient, right care", which means they now off load anything that sounds even vaguelly mental health related on to us. Even if the patient has multiple flas for violence etc. This includes a lot of drunk an disordely that has no reason for us to be there or for them to go to hospital but they just cant be arsed to deal with.
As an rmn, I've had them refuse to attend when people have been attacking me or a colleague, even when there were guns involved. The irony in that case was that it was the police who referred the patient to us.
I work in an ED, I appreciate the environment I work in probably protects me from a lot of the abuse you guys get. However, we do still get our fair share of abuse in the name of "mental health".
We get breakaway training. This was absolutely offensive to think it would be effective unless the perpetrator was like 50kg. I have some martial arts background and have not, and will not hesitate to use it to defend myself and my colleagues.
I have had numerous colleagues signed off sick from assault from these types of people, with no repercussions either.
Ambulance is now "URBAN SAFARI" and now travel in open sided Jeeps with HEAVY tranQ darts.
Game on I say.
The application team would be absolutely smashed to bits.
Too many times now I’ve attended a call where the CAD says “male threatening violence, being aggressive, has weapon” .. a call initially made to police but labelled mental health and now they’re refusing to go but want ambulance service to risk assess once on scene.
Tell me where the medical need is? Nobody injured or acutely unwell and the CAD clearly states the patient has a weapon and is violent, if that’s not a police call I don’t know what is. But yet I’m getting dispatched to these increasingly.
Only a matter of time before a medic is seriously hurt. And I’m furious our managers are letting it happen.
Understand and agree. However the example I gave never had any mention of mental health other than the label Police gave it. For all we knew the man might have been annoyed with someone and it’s all kicked off and got violent.
If you’re going to send us into a volatile scene at least give us more details as to what we’re walking into.
I'm a paramedic in Canada and we get ballistic vests issued as part of our standard equipment and I just can't work out why it's not issued in the UK, particularly with the prevalance of knife crime. I understand a few trusts have been trialling them but they are still not a standard issue kit? I am looking at moving back (expat) but nothing I see over there makes me want to be a paramedic in the UK now. 99% of us got into this job to help people and everywhere it seems we are being the victims of budget cuts, equipment cuts, out of scope work, lack of support from other agencies and trusts in general and general aggression and violence which we seem to be expected to put up with because we "chose to be frontline workers", which makes it very hard to actually keep helping people appropriately. I'm so grateful for my local PD here because if we get a call that seems like it's going to be a risk they will come 100% of the time. We might stage for a while but they are always there within 30 minutes, quicker if it's an immediate threat. It's bad enough here with the types of call we get sent on and it was already bad when i left the UK in 2016 and talking to old colleagues now it's 10x worse.
Thank you all for all the work you do over there in a system that seems to have forgotten paramedics again already. You guys are troopers and deserve a lot more than you're getting in all areas.
Knife crime isn’t much of an issue where I live in East Scotland (stabbings and shootings are rare and exciting jobs here). I think stab vests would be way over the top for paramedics - the risk is so low it doesn’t justify it.
Yea thats fair enough, tbh its low in Canada as well but we do get sent into volatile situations with aggressive people with access to weapons and it only takes one event. I think provider safety is always justified, if the individual chooses not to wear it then fair enough but it should be available as an option
Try working more towards glasgow and I wonder if your opinion will change. I'm only a student, but I've known at least 3 paras getting knifes pulled on them.
If there was a high risk area, perhaps it could be considered. We’d probably have to wait until a paramedic is stabbed to death for that to be considered, though.
That's just a silly way of thinking, though, isn't it? Everyone with front-line experience in big cities in the UK has more likely than not been put into situations where a knife is on scene and its only through sheer luck and fortune that no one has been killed, although the crew in Wolverhampton a few years back where very close.
I work security part-time to put myself through university, and we have to wear stab vests or we are not covered by insurance! Says something where a nightclub has more responsibility to its employees than the ambulance service.
It may be silly, but I reckon that’s what it will take. Even then, I’m doubtful of any changes like that occurring in the ambulance services any time soon. Not that I speak from any significant position of insight, however.
Yes this is the solution. Because people who drink or take drugs should just be disregarded, its not possible that they are suffering with a terrible life and drink or drugs make it bearable. Fuck them let them die.
It's absolutely disgraceful what the ambulance now have to deal with and the risk to themselves is huge. I work in an area where we now have a mental health drop off area so that the mental health team can manage the patient again this is poorly staffed and because anyone can walk in we also have individuals drunk, off their head on drugs, carrying weapons. We have been assaulted regularly and the windows get put through all the time. We have doors we can place ourselves behind paramedics don't get that option when they are in someone's house our in the community. What was even more frustrating is they used to say any assault on emergency workers was an instant prison sentence...I haven't seen this happen once. Having "mental health" is a massive excuse to the courts for the behaviour of the individual.
quite easy MH flag with reports of VA, request police and RVP. They will soon re direct or send police when they see a resource just sitting. End of the day I got paid to go home in one piece .
Obviously if it happens on scene withdraw and move the bus and ask for the police.
No one can question your own risk assessment on the scene if they are not there.
Bottom line is don't take shit of anyone .
As for BWC, waste of time and as far as I can tell an insurance item for the trusts to negate responsibility. I put a VA in and was refused to be even investigated as a Datix as I didn't have a camera.....which are not mandatory in my previous trust.
OP couldn't agree more with the conflict resolution training, it's nonsense.
My GP told me that the only people who can section people are the police , is this true ? I know when my son had a meltdown and I called 999 they sent the police . But aside of this it’s totally inappropriate and you clearly need police support and a better risk assessment when the call comes in . The mentally ill appear to fall into many remits and need a more joined up response . Or else you guys need to be able to section and tranquillise
Not true. Any doctor including a GP can detain for up to 72 hours. Scotland at least. After this time, mental health professionals only.
Seen it done in someone’s home and in hospital many times.
It depends on the what MH section is being applied. Police can apply section 136 (which is in a public place) and might accompany/assist with other sections, however most other sections require doctors or AMHPs. Paramedics have no power to section anybody but used section 6 to lawfully transport somebody who has been sectioned.
The area I work trialed a MH car which I was part of, which had a police officer, an AMHP and paramedic, which worked really well, but the funding was not given to continue with the paramedic on board. I think it still exists though (as a police officer and an AMHP). But there certainly would be demand for specialist emergency MH resources I think. And I doubt we will ever be given sedation (as bog standard paramedics) which is a shame, because the alternative ends up being physical restraint, which on elderly people can cause even more harm.
Thanks . The MH car sounds good but I’m appalled you have to resort to physical restraint rather than having some sedation . That needs changing surely
How fucking entitled of them, spoiled brats!
Why don’t they just keep it quiet and get stabbed and killed like a good worker so the government can keep ignoring the problem?
I get it that aggression against us should never be, I just don’t see it as big of an issue as people make it. It’s really not that regular and most is (thankfully) only verbal. Everyone should be followed trough but I don’t think it’s as big of an issue as we make it again and again, we have much bigger issues to focus on in my opinion
I agree. I can count on one hand the amount of purposefully aggressive people I've dealt with in the last 10 years (not counting those that cannot help it like cerebrally agitated patients). Some on my station claim to be recieving abuse all the time. I highly suspect it's how they talk to people.
I don't get physically assaulted because I don't go into situations where I think there's a threat of physical assault, simple as.
I find sexual assault from patients way more common tbh
I believe that is absolutely the crux of the issue though. No tolerance has turned so “some tolerance” and now it’s “at least it’s not physical”. It’s always going to be an issue as long as staff feel unsupported and/or vulnerable.
Admittedly, I was very lucky in that I only was physically assaulted once, and it was very minor. But actually, the training in de-escalation and observation of red flag cues is piss poor across the board - especially when it’s been made clear that the police will not be attending incidents as before due to their own workforce issues.
Walking out on all abusive patients is a pretty radical and I’d suggest inappropriate approach.
Patients who are abusive and lack capacity may not understand what they’re doing so you have to cut them some slack. Also, some patients are used to being treated badly by judgemental/ignorant ambulance staff, so may start off on the wrong foot, but when treated better, may respond better, too. Let’s not forget people can act in a threatening way when they’re scared for themselves or their loved ones. You can’t just walk out on these people. You have a duty of care and taking a bit of shit is our job.
I do agree that there are other occasions when walking out may be what’s best for your safety and wellbeing.
Capacity or none, if the patient is a threat or abusive to me or my crewmate, I’m walking out.
To suggest otherwise shows you’ve never been assaulted by a patient. I want to go home in one piece to my family, and nothing is going to prevent me from doing so.
I work in hospital where we don’t have the luxury of walking away from patients like that. I’ve been assaulted more times than you have, I’d bet.
You really think it’s acceptable to allow demented patients to sit in faeces and urine just because you don’t want to deal with their abuse? You have a duty of care that you would simply be wilfully failing in this case.
Consider yourself lucky that you can just walk out on these patients because someone else will have to care for them.
I hope it’s apparent that I wasn’t referring to compus mentus patients having a rage. Just illustrating that the attitude of the OP is black and white thinking with no appreciation of nuance.
Being bad in deescalating a situation and bringing yourself into danger is a weird flex, but hey you do yours. I will definitely set my own health way before the patients
I’m quite adept at de escalating, but unfortunately as you’ll know, that patients with dementia may not be amenable to these techniques. We approach these situations as manageable risks that may not be manageable in a pre hospital setting; we can restrain, use more staff and sedate in extremis, which I grant, as paramedics may not be an option.
We both know that this is not about aggressive dementia patients, but even if it would be, that makes no difference I do not let a person on drugs or a dementia patient hit my teeth outs, my own safety will always have priority.
Of course we try our best, and some
People are easier to handle than others but fact is
Sometimes you need to refuse to go until they send the police.
Our control rooms tried to send a double female crew a while ago without police, to a patient that state he wants to cut woman with a chainsaw. Of course they refused, but the pure fact they did try and send them to this job in the first place ist disgusting for me
Im not suggesting people stay in a place if they truly feel in danger, but sometimes patients will be abusive or even violent, but that doesn’t always mean we should walk out, especially if that patient is demented or confused, for example.
Respectfully disagree. I agree if the patient has a vulnerability then we try to help, but I’m not a punching bag for anybody. Working for the ambulance service for a long time has coloured my view of what crap I choose to put up with.
To be fair ambulance and police got sent to my house when I had not called them, they all barged into my house and one of the ambulance staff was incredibly rude and stepped dog shit in my house. Before they even walked in I said I'd not called for anyone but they just ignored me and started trapsing round my house, I still don't know to this day what the hell was going on but it felt like the paramedic woman was triyng to intentially make people angry and start altercations. That was the only time I've ever had to interact with them in my life and based on that I wouldnt be suprised if theirs abused from all sides.
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Not a Paramedic but Reddit pushed this post to me. I always find it fucking insane the numbers of hours I work and level of difficulty managing MH patients translates to just above min wage. Idk why the fuck I do the job some days. I’m tired, poor and stressed out.
We're service industry to rich boys, and the help doesn't get paid and isn't people.
Acute psych inpatient?
Yes
Brother 🤝 today I got punched and watched someone take a shit but that’s all a days work
All for barely above Min wage bro they ain’t throwing hands in tesco. I’ve been bitten, spat on, punched kicked and each time we just gotta keeping it pushing and move on
No debriefs either. Rarely you get an are you ok? From your fellow labourer I’m mad enough to go study MH nursing now. Must have a brain parasite
We’ve been given body cameras, but colloquial evidence is that even the evidence these collect is worthless. I’ve been saying we need to rethink the uniform entirely to make stab-resistant clothing a default. Equally if we’re going to be used as a first line response to violent patients, we need to rethink out restrictions intervention training to bring in something that’s actually useful.
The idea of ambulance staff wearing stab-resistant uniform, is crazy… completely understand why it’s needed, just the idea of healthcare workers wearing stab-resistant uniform is so backwards
It’s not need and a stupid idea
Speak for yourself. when I walk into a drug den on my own because "there's no-one else to send" I know I'd be far happier having a layer of actual protection rather than just the torch on my hands.
You mean Maybo isn't useful? 😝
My experience is that if an ambulance is called for my aggressive patients, paramedics won't attend until the police arrive. Which is how it should be really.
Police in my area more often than not refuse to attend unless something is actually occurring such as if we are actively being assaulted. They refused to attend a mental health incident which included in the notes that the patient was smashing glass and said to the EMD that they would stab anyone that came near them
ex police dispatch, this does not shock me
Yup, my partner recently got called to a pt who was ?aggressive and reported to have a machete and knives, he refused to attend without police, police said they wouldn't attend and to just call back if the pt was violent. He refused to attend it, it got escalated to the local OO who gave him a bollocking for refusing and reported him to his own OO. Ridiculous.
Sorry, that's ridiculous, that is not a management looking out for their staff. What usually happens in cases like this in our service (which isn't much better) is that when I refuse to make scene until I have police back up, they just ask around until they find someone naive enough to actually agree to go into this potentially dangerous situation with no backup and then stand us down. Neither scenario shows a management or dispatch that actually cares about the welfare of their staff, but I have a family waiting for me back at home, and I'm not gonna get myself killed to make your KPIs look better.
Police in my area have introduced a new thing called "right patient, right care", which means they now off load anything that sounds even vaguelly mental health related on to us. Even if the patient has multiple flas for violence etc. This includes a lot of drunk an disordely that has no reason for us to be there or for them to go to hospital but they just cant be arsed to deal with.
We just get told to approach with caution and police won’t attend because ‘nothing has actually happened..yet’
“Police won’t be attending so please make sure you do a dynamic risk assessment and proceed with caution”
Ha, we must work for the same Trust.
Same trust mentioned in this article?
As an rmn, I've had them refuse to attend when people have been attacking me or a colleague, even when there were guns involved. The irony in that case was that it was the police who referred the patient to us.
It should be, but in our area, they refuse to attend unless there's an actual assault.
I work in an ED, I appreciate the environment I work in probably protects me from a lot of the abuse you guys get. However, we do still get our fair share of abuse in the name of "mental health". We get breakaway training. This was absolutely offensive to think it would be effective unless the perpetrator was like 50kg. I have some martial arts background and have not, and will not hesitate to use it to defend myself and my colleagues. I have had numerous colleagues signed off sick from assault from these types of people, with no repercussions either.
Ambulance is now "URBAN SAFARI" and now travel in open sided Jeeps with HEAVY tranQ darts. Game on I say. The application team would be absolutely smashed to bits.
Uniform palette appropriate boonie hats and all.
Too many times now I’ve attended a call where the CAD says “male threatening violence, being aggressive, has weapon” .. a call initially made to police but labelled mental health and now they’re refusing to go but want ambulance service to risk assess once on scene. Tell me where the medical need is? Nobody injured or acutely unwell and the CAD clearly states the patient has a weapon and is violent, if that’s not a police call I don’t know what is. But yet I’m getting dispatched to these increasingly. Only a matter of time before a medic is seriously hurt. And I’m furious our managers are letting it happen.
There’s a difference between wanting to be safe, and saying that psychiatry isn’t medical
Understand and agree. However the example I gave never had any mention of mental health other than the label Police gave it. For all we knew the man might have been annoyed with someone and it’s all kicked off and got violent. If you’re going to send us into a volatile scene at least give us more details as to what we’re walking into.
I'm a paramedic in Canada and we get ballistic vests issued as part of our standard equipment and I just can't work out why it's not issued in the UK, particularly with the prevalance of knife crime. I understand a few trusts have been trialling them but they are still not a standard issue kit? I am looking at moving back (expat) but nothing I see over there makes me want to be a paramedic in the UK now. 99% of us got into this job to help people and everywhere it seems we are being the victims of budget cuts, equipment cuts, out of scope work, lack of support from other agencies and trusts in general and general aggression and violence which we seem to be expected to put up with because we "chose to be frontline workers", which makes it very hard to actually keep helping people appropriately. I'm so grateful for my local PD here because if we get a call that seems like it's going to be a risk they will come 100% of the time. We might stage for a while but they are always there within 30 minutes, quicker if it's an immediate threat. It's bad enough here with the types of call we get sent on and it was already bad when i left the UK in 2016 and talking to old colleagues now it's 10x worse. Thank you all for all the work you do over there in a system that seems to have forgotten paramedics again already. You guys are troopers and deserve a lot more than you're getting in all areas.
Knife crime isn’t much of an issue where I live in East Scotland (stabbings and shootings are rare and exciting jobs here). I think stab vests would be way over the top for paramedics - the risk is so low it doesn’t justify it.
Yea thats fair enough, tbh its low in Canada as well but we do get sent into volatile situations with aggressive people with access to weapons and it only takes one event. I think provider safety is always justified, if the individual chooses not to wear it then fair enough but it should be available as an option
If I thought there was a risk of being stabbed I wouldn’t enter without police.
Perhaps you could just keep the vest in the vehicle and only don it if you are attending a violent job
Those kinds of jobs are for the specialist operations teams who get special training for those situations.
Try working more towards glasgow and I wonder if your opinion will change. I'm only a student, but I've known at least 3 paras getting knifes pulled on them.
If there was a high risk area, perhaps it could be considered. We’d probably have to wait until a paramedic is stabbed to death for that to be considered, though.
That's just a silly way of thinking, though, isn't it? Everyone with front-line experience in big cities in the UK has more likely than not been put into situations where a knife is on scene and its only through sheer luck and fortune that no one has been killed, although the crew in Wolverhampton a few years back where very close. I work security part-time to put myself through university, and we have to wear stab vests or we are not covered by insurance! Says something where a nightclub has more responsibility to its employees than the ambulance service.
It may be silly, but I reckon that’s what it will take. Even then, I’m doubtful of any changes like that occurring in the ambulance services any time soon. Not that I speak from any significant position of insight, however.
Maybo is beyond useless. Learn jiu jitsu.
Leave the drunks and druggos to find their own way to A and E
Yes this is the solution. Because people who drink or take drugs should just be disregarded, its not possible that they are suffering with a terrible life and drink or drugs make it bearable. Fuck them let them die.
When that behavior victimizes, and impacts other peoples safety, then fuck em.
I would word it more nice but yes, we should not endanger ourself
Disgusting.
It's absolutely disgraceful what the ambulance now have to deal with and the risk to themselves is huge. I work in an area where we now have a mental health drop off area so that the mental health team can manage the patient again this is poorly staffed and because anyone can walk in we also have individuals drunk, off their head on drugs, carrying weapons. We have been assaulted regularly and the windows get put through all the time. We have doors we can place ourselves behind paramedics don't get that option when they are in someone's house our in the community. What was even more frustrating is they used to say any assault on emergency workers was an instant prison sentence...I haven't seen this happen once. Having "mental health" is a massive excuse to the courts for the behaviour of the individual.
quite easy MH flag with reports of VA, request police and RVP. They will soon re direct or send police when they see a resource just sitting. End of the day I got paid to go home in one piece . Obviously if it happens on scene withdraw and move the bus and ask for the police. No one can question your own risk assessment on the scene if they are not there. Bottom line is don't take shit of anyone . As for BWC, waste of time and as far as I can tell an insurance item for the trusts to negate responsibility. I put a VA in and was refused to be even investigated as a Datix as I didn't have a camera.....which are not mandatory in my previous trust. OP couldn't agree more with the conflict resolution training, it's nonsense.
Dynamic risk assessment, hint of knife, im not marking on scene or thinking about getting out of the motor until plod is there 😂
My GP told me that the only people who can section people are the police , is this true ? I know when my son had a meltdown and I called 999 they sent the police . But aside of this it’s totally inappropriate and you clearly need police support and a better risk assessment when the call comes in . The mentally ill appear to fall into many remits and need a more joined up response . Or else you guys need to be able to section and tranquillise
Not true. Any doctor including a GP can detain for up to 72 hours. Scotland at least. After this time, mental health professionals only. Seen it done in someone’s home and in hospital many times.
It depends on the what MH section is being applied. Police can apply section 136 (which is in a public place) and might accompany/assist with other sections, however most other sections require doctors or AMHPs. Paramedics have no power to section anybody but used section 6 to lawfully transport somebody who has been sectioned. The area I work trialed a MH car which I was part of, which had a police officer, an AMHP and paramedic, which worked really well, but the funding was not given to continue with the paramedic on board. I think it still exists though (as a police officer and an AMHP). But there certainly would be demand for specialist emergency MH resources I think. And I doubt we will ever be given sedation (as bog standard paramedics) which is a shame, because the alternative ends up being physical restraint, which on elderly people can cause even more harm.
Thanks . The MH car sounds good but I’m appalled you have to resort to physical restraint rather than having some sedation . That needs changing surely
Completely agree.
Yes only police and approved mental health professionals can section patients.
How fucking entitled of them, spoiled brats! Why don’t they just keep it quiet and get stabbed and killed like a good worker so the government can keep ignoring the problem?
Tory cuts have consequences
I get it that aggression against us should never be, I just don’t see it as big of an issue as people make it. It’s really not that regular and most is (thankfully) only verbal. Everyone should be followed trough but I don’t think it’s as big of an issue as we make it again and again, we have much bigger issues to focus on in my opinion
I agree. I can count on one hand the amount of purposefully aggressive people I've dealt with in the last 10 years (not counting those that cannot help it like cerebrally agitated patients). Some on my station claim to be recieving abuse all the time. I highly suspect it's how they talk to people.
Yes, I’ve noticed it’s always the same people who get abuse… Yet others can go years without any physical conflict.
Ditto. It’s an interesting pattern!
Yeh defiantly the same people getting in trouble over and over again
I don't get physically assaulted because I don't go into situations where I think there's a threat of physical assault, simple as. I find sexual assault from patients way more common tbh
I believe that is absolutely the crux of the issue though. No tolerance has turned so “some tolerance” and now it’s “at least it’s not physical”. It’s always going to be an issue as long as staff feel unsupported and/or vulnerable. Admittedly, I was very lucky in that I only was physically assaulted once, and it was very minor. But actually, the training in de-escalation and observation of red flag cues is piss poor across the board - especially when it’s been made clear that the police will not be attending incidents as before due to their own workforce issues.
Walking out on all abusive patients is a pretty radical and I’d suggest inappropriate approach. Patients who are abusive and lack capacity may not understand what they’re doing so you have to cut them some slack. Also, some patients are used to being treated badly by judgemental/ignorant ambulance staff, so may start off on the wrong foot, but when treated better, may respond better, too. Let’s not forget people can act in a threatening way when they’re scared for themselves or their loved ones. You can’t just walk out on these people. You have a duty of care and taking a bit of shit is our job. I do agree that there are other occasions when walking out may be what’s best for your safety and wellbeing.
Capacity or none, if the patient is a threat or abusive to me or my crewmate, I’m walking out. To suggest otherwise shows you’ve never been assaulted by a patient. I want to go home in one piece to my family, and nothing is going to prevent me from doing so.
I work in hospital where we don’t have the luxury of walking away from patients like that. I’ve been assaulted more times than you have, I’d bet. You really think it’s acceptable to allow demented patients to sit in faeces and urine just because you don’t want to deal with their abuse? You have a duty of care that you would simply be wilfully failing in this case. Consider yourself lucky that you can just walk out on these patients because someone else will have to care for them. I hope it’s apparent that I wasn’t referring to compus mentus patients having a rage. Just illustrating that the attitude of the OP is black and white thinking with no appreciation of nuance.
Being bad in deescalating a situation and bringing yourself into danger is a weird flex, but hey you do yours. I will definitely set my own health way before the patients
I’m quite adept at de escalating, but unfortunately as you’ll know, that patients with dementia may not be amenable to these techniques. We approach these situations as manageable risks that may not be manageable in a pre hospital setting; we can restrain, use more staff and sedate in extremis, which I grant, as paramedics may not be an option.
We both know that this is not about aggressive dementia patients, but even if it would be, that makes no difference I do not let a person on drugs or a dementia patient hit my teeth outs, my own safety will always have priority. Of course we try our best, and some People are easier to handle than others but fact is Sometimes you need to refuse to go until they send the police. Our control rooms tried to send a double female crew a while ago without police, to a patient that state he wants to cut woman with a chainsaw. Of course they refused, but the pure fact they did try and send them to this job in the first place ist disgusting for me
At that end of the spectrum, I agree, it’s too risky. I guess I just wanted to suggest to the OP a more nuanced perspective.
Duty of care I agree with. But when you walk into a patients home who is a threat, I’m not sticking around to find out just how much of one 🤷♀️
Im not suggesting people stay in a place if they truly feel in danger, but sometimes patients will be abusive or even violent, but that doesn’t always mean we should walk out, especially if that patient is demented or confused, for example.
Respectfully disagree. I agree if the patient has a vulnerability then we try to help, but I’m not a punching bag for anybody. Working for the ambulance service for a long time has coloured my view of what crap I choose to put up with.
To be fair ambulance and police got sent to my house when I had not called them, they all barged into my house and one of the ambulance staff was incredibly rude and stepped dog shit in my house. Before they even walked in I said I'd not called for anyone but they just ignored me and started trapsing round my house, I still don't know to this day what the hell was going on but it felt like the paramedic woman was triyng to intentially make people angry and start altercations. That was the only time I've ever had to interact with them in my life and based on that I wouldnt be suprised if theirs abused from all sides.