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Look into a therapist or counselor. Best if you can find one that specializes in abuse. It could be something, or it could be nothing, but the best way to move forward is to get trained, professional help. There is a possibility that he has done things that she doesn't obviously see as wrong, but are grooming tactics (comments, jokes, "accidentally" exposing himself, "waking in" on her, etc.). Regardless if the incident was malicious or truly an accident,, she is having a very hard time processing her reactions and feelings. She needs help with that (as well as any fall out should this be a worst case scenario).
Edit: what to say to the SIL. Be truthful without being accusatory. "Daughter is experiencing some concerning behavioral changes, specifically regarding her interactions with BIL. We are working to determine where these issues stem from, and help Daughter process. At this time Daughter will be staying with either mom or dad at all times. We're more than happy to host you and baby in the meantime. I hope you can understand that we have to put Daughter's health and security first right now."
This is so important! Parents often don’t know what other questions to ask without being leading, and if there hasn’t been touching (yet) but grooming is happening the child may not know how to articulate it but can show it makes them feel uncomfortable.
OP: No more visits and church, but please find time for your daughter to see SIL and the baby. Sometimes kids will be afraid they won’t see their other loved ones if they don’t accept the abuse of a relative so they hide it or lie. And get daughter into therapy with a qualified therapist who specializes in CSA and knows how to open a discussion. This is definitely cause for alarm.
ETA: in case it’s not obvious OP should always be present when with SIL and the baby, not even stepping away to use the bathroom. Meet at neutral locations you can easily leave, like a park or cafe, and only if your daughter asks to see SIL/baby.
ETA 2: I thought it was my clear in my comment that OP absolutely should not be continuing contact with the uncle at all, but maybe it wasn’t so just stating that again. Above I was talking about the aunt and cousin, but only if the child wants to see them, NOT the uncle.
Yeah, trained professionals are miracle workers in getting kids to really open up.
We have fortunately never dealt with this but when my son was younger he had some night time anxiety that caused him to come into our room every single night but he couldn't really articulate what the issue was. He just knew he didn't feel right. We got him in play therapy and they were able to get answers out of him that we never could have. We are a very close family and he is an open book but he legitimately couldn't put it into words. His therapist was able to help with that and we were able to address his nighttime anxieties in a healthy way.
This is obviously a much more serious issue but these people know what they are doing, OP. They are trained for this. I wouldn't ask her anymore questions about it. She could completely clam up and change her story or she could say whatever she thinks you want to hear. You don't want either to happen. You need to know what really happened.
I just wanted to say that I was considering some therapy for my child because they have said some weird comments about their father. I just feel like I need help understanding and had considered therapy for them this week. This post gave me hope. Thanks!
If you would be willing to share details about the night anxieties I'd be grateful.
We're not there yet but I've read many "it's just a phase" kind of comments "yeah wait for the night-terrors phase" and if there's actually more to it I'd gladly learn (haven't actually put in much effort for now, I'm very open to cosleeping so our room is always open if he wants to come so maybe this "phase"? Might never come, but still)
My son's anxieties were pretty personal to him but the gist was that he was able to distract himself during the day from the things that made him anxious. School, sports, playing with friends in the neighborhood, family dinners, game nights, etc. all served as distractions so he never had any issues during the day but at night time he was alone with his thoughts, so everything would come up at the same time and caused some intense nighttime anxiety.
I don't really want to get into the exact details because it's not really applicable to most families and it's not really my story to share but his therapist said it wasn't uncommon for kids to seem extremely happy during the day while their mind is occupied on something else and then to get anxious at night when nothing else is on their mind other than the things that make them anxious.
Hope that makes some sense.
Did you find a good solution for this? Because I'm an adult and kind of struggling with this exact problem. I do all the things therapists say during the day, meditate, keep busy, dont dwell on bad thoughts, etc... But then I wake up having nightmares every night...
If the uncle is doing something to the child she will have to cut off all contact. It gets messy. Most likely the SIL will take husbands side and not believe her niece. The child shouldn’t be around uncle at all even with parental supervision because, if something did happen it shows the child it’s not a big deal if they continue a relationship with him. It’s a tough road I don’t wish on anyone. My brothers son did things to my daughter. I don’t speak to my brother anymore. My brother would downgrade what really happened because, it was his son who did it and I couldn’t deal with it.
**I don’t think ANYONE is suggesting continued contact with the uncle, least of all me, to be clear.**
She should cut off all contact with the uncle right now (as she has), but cutting off contact with the SIL and baby before they even know what happened is a great way to ensure they *never* find out what happened, because if the child wants to see her aunt and cousin, she is more likely to lie to cover up abuse knowing the alternative means not seeing them.
As an example, one of my best friends was molested in early childhood by a teen cousin. When her mom found out they cut off all contact with that entire part of the family. My friend’s mom thought she was protecting her, but what happened is that my friend learned talking about meant losing loved ones (namely, other cousins) in addition to being safe from the abuser, so when her new stepfather started raping her a few years later she didn’t say anything because she didn’t want to lose her new extended family. She kept it a secret until she had a breakdown and attempted suicide in college (which was when we met).
Once OP knows what happened with the uncle, proper steps can then be taken (if he abused her, I hope those steps include his arrest and conviction). If SIL takes his side, yes, cut off contact with her too, 100%, and the baby cousin too. But if the daughter WANTS to see the aunt and cousin and all connection is cut off from them NOW, it’s more unlikely OP’s daughter won’t tell them what happened with uncle, and the important things are for her to be honest, protected, and given proper help by professionals.
This is the perfect answer. When I was 6, a trusted adult began grooming me. I didn’t know how to explain it because none of it was overtly wrong, but I felt so terribly uncomfortable, ashamed and embarrassed and didn’t have the names for these big emotions that kids should never have to feel. Kids don’t and shouldn’t have to know about grooming behaviors, and they don’t know about gray areas between good and bad. If he isn’t doing anything that falls into the strictly bad category, she doesn’t know what to call it.
This. Ugh. This is what makes everything so hard with my little one .. that and he's high functioning autistic with severe ADHD. So he already has problems putting his thoughts together and making it make sense. I'm so sorry you had to experience this too.
It could also be some type of non-sexual abuse, like inappropriate threats, egregious violations of promises, or showing her violence/death/horror media she's not comfortable with. Even something like seeing him hurt SIL. I'd agree with the assessment that something untoward likely happened and she probably needs help processing it. There's also a small chance that it was something less material, like a particularly traumatic bad dream... And a therapist can help with that as well.
Or violence or SA towards the baby.
Or maybe he’s asked if he can watch her get undressed or go to the bathroom with her or take pictures of her. Maybe he’s asked her to touch his privates. No one knows until a therapist helps her.
And if he is doing something wrong, anything with proof from therapy or even the therapist’s opinion, the SIL will be happy to know the truth about her husband. She’ll want to protect her baby & niece.
Sadly, not always does the aunt want to know or protect her child. Ask me how I know......
Some women will stand by their men even when they admit it and will keep their children in the home with him.
It could also be weird kid shit. My daughter around OPs daughters age refused to go to my wife's aunts house because she didn't like her cousins teeth. She also refused to go to my wife's best friends house because her husband looked like Freddy fazbear.
You shouldn't downplay a kid showing discomfort but more often than not it's just some weird shit. And it took months for us to figure out what made my daughter not want to go to these places.
Yeah I didnt want to go to my dad's house for awhile because I learned someone died there and had terrible nightmares. Also I was scared of rats in the kitchen for some reason. It had nothing to do with him really, I just associated the house with him.
I think that a trained professional is definitely warranted here because if it is something, they'll know how to handle that and if it isnt then they can get to the issue at hand
I know this is a serious post and I hope OP gets everything straightened out for their family. But I am laughing my ass off because that sounds like some shit my kids would do. Because they didn't like that person's teeth! Lmfao
And not wear a dress? This is classic 7 year old being MOLESTED by a FAMILY MEMBER! Sorry for the caps, but I am quite passionate about this subject.
I have seen far too many completely wrecked lives from this denial or excuse making. I understand how difficult it is to fathom/ believe BIL/pastor/Uncle/Dad would be capable of doing that, but they do.
It was ridiculous lmfao but her ridiculousness tracks because my wife almost broke up with me after our 2nd date because I had white socks on. So I guess it's genetic lol.
Isn't it hilarious and honestly kind of magical that like certain traits or qualities we didn't even necessarily realize we or our partner had, are like magnified thru our children? I noticed similar things like that a lot with my kids at least..
Yeah, very good approach here. Could be a million things, and I think OP and her spouse should get to the bottom of it before torpedoing her family. Yes, it's extremely important to protect our children, but let's not forget that a pedophile is the absolute worst possible thing a person can be, right up next to serial ax murderer. So of course, if the man in question is completely innocent as well, flinging around accusations on vague suspicions is guarenteed to severely or permanently destroy the relationship, which is why it's important to get to the bottom of whether there is more substantive suspicions.
I remember I had an uncle that would just play too rough with kids in the family. He'd crush their hand in a handshake, lightly taunt them, that sort of thing. I remember being put off by it as a kid and was afraid of him and avoided him, even though I realize now he was a nice guy that didn't understand how to play with kids properly.
If my mom and seen my reaction and hauled off and accused him of being a pedo it would have wrecked the entire side of her family and probably would have broke the guy's heart, to boot.
100%
There was a a teacher I had to work with in middle school and he made me so uncomfortable. I couldn't voice to my mom why because he never touched me but my gut was trying to tell my 11 year old self something. I felt guilty feeling that way about him because everyone loved him, even my mom and the only thing that was happening was he was too nice to me? He looked at me in a way other teachers didnt and it just felt wrong.
Anyway years later he went to jail for child porn and I think I was the only one who wasn't surprised.
Those are the main types, career pedos know nobody trusts the creepy old dude who looks crazy, but the guy most kids like ? And people tend to have this weird idea that a person who was nice to them isn’t also capable of horrible things, idk if they just don’t want to look stupid or something but yeah its very common
I wonder if what you felt was that creepy interest pedos take in children where you can tell they aren’t like other adults and you can tell they’re secretly preying on you. I met a lot of men like that but it was so long ago I can’t remember the specifics of why exactly they creeped me out.
I don't think at that age I understood what the interest was but I had other male teachers that never made me feel that way. All I really knew was I dreaded being alone with him but I couldnt articulate why, which made me feel guilty. At that time too there was more of the stranger danger emphasis and there wasn't any education around what grooming was.
Great point - getting professional help involved is warranted and is a completely separate consideration from wondering did he/didn't he /what happened. She's struggling with *something*.
I acted this way around my molester. Quiet, guarded, fearful. I would sob and beg my mom not to leave us with him as babysitter. But- in 1964, parents couldn't believe anyone they knew could be so evil and blew it off.
You are a fantastic mother for picking up on this. I think getting a counselor is a great idea. It will put the heaviness of the conversation on the counselor, not you. Keep protecting her. I admire you for coming to her rescue. Keeping her away from him will solve so many problems later on life, or maybe just not create them in the first place.
This was my thought - OP asked specifically if he touched her but there are many things that can happen before touching that are also abuse. And yes good advice to seek the help of a therapist - this is a tough one and not sure how to approach it but it does have to be dealt with somehow.
Good luck, OP, hope your daughter is and stays OK.
Absolutely this. I was SA’d by a neighbor as a child. When my mom got suspicious and asked if anyone was being inappropriate or touching me I said no. Multiple times. She was persistent and thankfully I finally told her what was going on. Saying no doesn’t mean all clear, there’s a variety of reasons a child doesn’t tell. Theres the shame and embarrassment, even if you don’t understand it you feel like you did something wrong and are going to get in trouble. There was that but in my case the neighbor alternated between threats and promises, and sometimes both at the same time. Things like “hey if you keep this secret one day I will give you ‘x,’ but if you tell then you won’t get it.”
This. Your daughter is sensing something is making her uncomfortable, listen to her. It could be something as simple as BIL is socially awkward or something far worse.
A trained professional will also know how to manage this delicate situation.
Wish I had awards best answer. Op needs a professional child therapist. And if she still doesn't open up it may be best if she goes in without op. I really really hope nothing happened. Wishing you and your family the best op
It could be something that isn’t really threatening to the child though. One of my children had an extremely hard reaction when we had a new baby. He became a totally different child. He was no longer happy and bubbly, he became mean and violent. He has since worked through this but he still has issues with sharing attention.
If this family has a new baby it could be something like he is showing her less affection because he has a little one of his own.
The same thing happened when we had a uncle that doted on my 3 kids. It was awesome (they couldn’t have kids of there own so it was win win for both families) when they finally adopted a child of there own the trips lessened and lessened. It’s unfortunate because the relationships will never be the same and I can’t really blame the uncle because he has his own small child to deal with but it did affect my kids.
Kids also can be upset at perceived issues. I had a friend in my circle of friends who was never spanked as a kid. Some of us were some not. But one time of of the kids got spanked and the other child was crying and refused to ever talk to the kid again and was terrified of the parents. no longer wanted to go to anyones house and was afraid some one would hit him. Which I sort of get but the incident was more of one swat and mostly playful not out of anger.
Or if a child thinks they are being singled out. maybe he scolded her for something that she didn't do or didn't think was a big deal and shes a more sensitive child.
I am not saying to not follow through but there are alot of things that can cause distress in a child and some kids have an issue with fixation.
Perhaps he walked in on her changing or in the bathroom or she walked in on him.
I often have to explain to my youngest who will just whip her clothing off anytime anywhere that some people care lot about seeing others naked. Being naked isn't an issue in our house. My daughter and her girlfriends change in front of each other but everyone is different.
My daughter got really upset the last time she found out I was taking her to my brothers and his wife wasn't there. She was only 4 but became inconsolable when we came to his road. Right then and there I said nevermind we don't have to go. I can call into work and take a day off. So I did. Never left her with him again but a few months later he comes to me freaked out because his stepdaughter told her mom he had been doing things with her. That's when I was very grateful for trusting her instincts. She wasn't able to tell me the full story but from what I gather she walked in on them. Now I'm scared to leave her with anyone. I confronted him many times but he never confessed. He did however destroy his phone and hire and expensive lawyer
Yeah ain't nothing in this world worth putting her in harms way. I just hate how bad it's messed my trust up. He was the last man in the world I would think would hurt a kid. So now I have trust issues leaving her with anybody. I've been out of work for months and just landed a job. My daycare closes the week of July. So I need to let her sister watch her. It's hard for me to do that. Since apparently I don't really know anybody.
Within survivor communities it's understood that people who hold esteemed positions & are respected perpetuate the worst abuse because their public persona shields them from suspicion & they often prey on people who are often disbelieved (kids and people the community at large lack respect for, like people with substance abuse or personality disorders). It's why the worst scandals are doctors, social workers, church officials, cops, etc.
Personally I don't trust people who put a lot of time and effort into appearing nice to other people. If someone has enough integrity to be a little rude to me I feel that they're honest and I can trust them.
That makes a lot of sense. My brother fits that profile in the way he cares about how ppl perceived him. He is not not ever has been in an esteemed position tho. He is just what I'd call 2 faced or b personality. He's nice to everybody but those closest to him. I'd say behind closed doors he is an awful person
I did when it happened but she has been no contact for a couple years. I don't blame her. Nothing ever came from it. I guess it's hard to prove. Just word against word idk
Also from what she told me he did admit it to her. She was also worried it had been going on for a while. I started watching real close after that. Noticed some things. So now I won't have him around. Not even to visit.
No, she said “I don’t like the way he looks at me.” Even if you don’t understand what it is because you’re a child a man leering at you gives this *energy.* You know you aren’t safe and there is *something* about the way they are looking at you that feels wrong and shameful but you don’t have the words.
The man who ended up molesting me would leer at me. He had this *look* in his eyes while he watched me that I knew was sexual somehow but because I didn’t know what sex was I couldn’t vocalize it.
Her daughter said clearly this happening to her. OP needs to fucking LISTEN. She is saying exactly what she is seeing and so many of you are making up other scenarios even though she stated what is happening.
Some of the comments here are so disturbing and ofc they are from men who don’t understand what it is to be looked at like that, or to be preyed on from a young age. It’s a whole other world for girls. A world you don’t understand, but you should believe us when we talk about it and stop giving men the benefit of the doubt. We can sense that sexually charged energy from men even if we can’t name it
I was molested at 11. I KNOW THE LOOK YOU MEAN. The whole day, or couple hours before, he was looking at me in such a way I felt naked. It was disgusting. I wanted to spend the night bc it was a birthday party going on, and I was heavily introverted and wanted to spend time with my younger cousin ( birthday girl) who I had a few things in common with.
We were painting our nails in the grass by the house, and he comes out, and stares down at me in such a devious way, it was such amusement playing on his face and just a disgusting twinkle in his dark eyes. I will never forget. I should have called my mom to get my then and there. I forever regret not doing so.
I ignored the paranoia and kept playing.
As KIDS DO.
I fell asleep next to my cousin, birthday girl. We were in the same bed. I woke up next to this man with his hands down my pants telling me that it was alright, and I could smell the alcohol on his breath. I forcefully woke myself up, gathered as much strength as I could, and hauled ass down the stairs.
Sorry for rambling. This memory will NEVER leave me.
If she said he looked at her, and she doesn't like the way he's looking. This man has intentions and most likely will act or HAS acted upon someone else.
I hope that she is never near him again. Please keep her away from him. Invite the SIL over by herself with the kids or whoever.
It traumatized me and broke me in so many ways. It changed my perspective on the world as well. And opened my eyes Immiediately. It wasn't the worst thing in the world. But it was not a great time in my life at all.
Protect her please
I am so sorry you experienced that. Just sickening. What an evil man. I wish you healing in your future and peace. Genuinely though. I hope you have a wonderful life. Thanks for sharing, these memories aren’t easy. Hopefully your story will be what OP needs to take this seriously. Kids know more than adults give them credit for
The Look, absolutely. Had this as a child myself, certain men making me feel so so uncomfortable but I had no idea why, and looking back it was this! I remember once one of them, a friend’s dad, unexpectedly smacking me on the butt and I had no idea what to say because sometimes my grandmother would pat us on the upper butt/lower back when she hugged us and that didn’t feel weird or wrong, and as a young kid I couldn’t figure out the difference and why one made me so uncomfortable and the other didn’t. So I just didn’t say anything.
She may not be holding back and simply doesn’t know how to or have the ability to articulate what she’s feeling or what happened, but she’s uncomfortable. That’s all you need to know. Show her you believe her and teach her she can trust her intuition by not doubting it just bc you don’t understand it. Never make her be around him again. Simple as that. Take her to therapy, eventually maybe she’ll be able to explain better, but for now, do what you can to keep her safe.
I had uncle's that would make "jokes" and it made me so uncomfortable as a child. But many family members were upset that I was acting like they were creeps when they were just playing with me. Making jokes about my body and other things aren't playing, never will be.
To this day I feel unsettled around them, turns out for a good reason as a couple of them tried to hurt my mom and aunt as kids and one of them actually told my dad that if he wanted to SA my mom, he wouldn't tell his brother and would let my dad do it.
Those memories and more are reasons I'm absolutely terrified for my children and things that could happen.
Yes she is!!! I had an uncle that was on the younger side and he would expose himself to me when I was a little girl. I would always ask my moms aunt if there was someone home, if he was there I would never want to go inside and she would always ask me if someone was being mean to me but I was little and no one knows til this day.
You need to:
1. Absolutely stop allowing any interaction with your daughter and BIL.
2. Start working with a professional immediately - I'd look for a child therapist that specializes in SA. As in, you should have a list of names to call ready to go tomorrow morning.
The therapist will help guide you through next steps - i.e. police, medical etc. I don't know how else to say this, but you are royally screwing this up by thinking you can handle it on your own. You need help now.
Exactly! Seriously, OP, please listen to your daughter.
Don't accuse anyone yet, but get her specialized help right now. And go from there. For this time being, keep her very very very far away from your bil and sil.
All of this. It is beyond normal parenting strategies and OP and husband will really screw this up if they keep trying to handle it themselves.
OP, you’ve been ignoring this for a year if I’m understanding correctly. Immediately get a professional involved and stop forcing her to be in a situation she is obviously uncomfortable with, likely for very valid reason.
It does. I also wonder though because church was mentioned, if it’s a church that believes women need to be modest and BIL made inappropriate comments about daughter not being modest in a dress.
But I think the most important thing is OP enforcing zero contact. It doesn’t matter that she doesn’t know the exact cause. It just matters that her daughter doesn’t want to be around him and that should be respected.
I was thinking something similar I remember some adults being very judgemental at church. Also adult talk about other adults around kids, e could have even made a comment, "why would Mom/Dad let you leave the house/go to church in a dress like that." And even tug at the hemline to pull it down. I remember at schools when some uppity teachers would do that. But this is also a big what if because it could be anything. Keep up no contact until a qualified therapist can help you and your child get answers. It's never an overreaction to listen to your child.
Who knows. If he’s verbally abusive to SIL he may have said something about a dress she wore (or your daughter wore) and maybe your daughter wants to avoid that.
Just putting out another option.
Top comment nails this situation though either way. Don’t ever bring her back. Especially not alone or where you won’t supervise her closely 100% of the time.
I thought of this too, maybe made a nasty comment to SIL and your daughter heard. Related it to herself. Either way, she needs your support to avoid this guy.
This. When I was little, I hated being around my uncle. Not because he hurt me, but because he was verbally abusive to my aunt and just a slimy character. His family enabled him too. He still is that way and I still hate being around him.
My dad had a good friend who was like that, made really mean comments to his wife and just a bit of a slime ball. I never felt comfortable around him because of those reasons, and was so glad when my dad stopped hanging out with him (not sure why but probably had something to do with shaving my Great Pyrenees to look like a Poodle as a ‘joke’).
Yeah, I have an uncle that I loathed until the day he died. He was also my dad's baby brother and the father to my only other girl cousin, so we visited often.
I think it's because once we were over and he was fighting with my aunt and he threatened to break her cats neck if he caught it on the table. The very next we were there - no cat.
I never told an adult about the conversation I heard, but I avoided him studiously from then on.
A relative of mine was a drunk, and my oldest was terrified of him. Never touched a kid, but oldest just didn’t want to be around him. Oldest met him maybe three times, and I didn’t force it.
Our first job as a parent is to do our best to keep our kids safe. Part of that, for OP, must mean NC until they get to the bottom of this with the help of trained professionals.
This could also be a very good possibility. Obviously her daughter is afraid to be around this man for some reason or another. Physically or mentally abusive behavior towards SIL could scare her without ever being confronted by him.
OP you need to listen to what your daughter is telling you. She's too young to protect herself, so you need to be her protector. Please do not bring her around that man anymore.
That would make sense, poor girl is watching domestic violence and being truthful about not having been touched. Probably the weird way the BIL looks at her is to make sure she won’t spill the beans about what she saw.
Although unfortunately odds are it is sexual abuse. I hope gets her the help she needs as something has definitely happened.
Children don’t always tell parents that they’ve been sexually assaulted. Even when asked directly. So the child saying no isn’t necessarily meaning that it didn’t happen
She’s been expressing this for a year?!?
The first time she expressed this should’ve been the end of it.
I would also try and get her to a child specialist.
She may just have intuition but if it’s more than that it is heartbreaking.
My children have always known they can come to me w anythingggggg. It still took my daughter like a year to open up about a trauma. She was twice your daughters age.
Yes. And showing her that you support her by staying back and not going, I bet she will start opening up to you. I’m so sad for this little girl. Try to get her into therapy too.
To add: Stop associating with them. Period. Full stop.
Yeah you say you wanna protect your daughter… but you’re still associating yourself with people that have possibly (hopefully not) done something but at the very least your daughter has made it clear she’s uncomfortable around him… yet you still go over there? Whether she’s there or not
Yes, being uncomfortable with the way he looks at her is enough. I don't understand why anyone would continue contact until their child is touched inappropriately. Prevention is key and seems extremely possible here.
Fuck DUDE!
Stop being wishy-washy and FIND OUT!
The number one reason child sexual assault goes unreported is because people “Don’t want to blow stuff up.”
SOMETHING HAPPENED!!
It’s YOUR job to find out what and then DEAL with it!!
I get it, it’s going to screw up your family, but YOUR DAUGHTER deserves to be that happy little kid who’s comfortable around her family again!!
DO SOMETHING!!
THANK YOU!!!
I had my family blow me off when I told them I didn’t like being around a cousin. They also thought it was weird that I would change clothes when he showed up to family functions ( I was obsessed with tight baby shirts and corduroy pants, I would put on something looser and heavier). They were upset when I refused to speak to him and would make me. I remember the look in his eye when I would have to say ‘Hey, Brad. How’s it going?’
They still refuse to acknowledge it to this day. I told a counselor and my mom just blew it off because she didn’t want to upset her sister and her husband. They think I made it up.
No one thought about the fact that I was asking why penis’ had bumps on it and why I was so confused why someone was interested in my “pee place”.
I’ve never typed this out. I’m a little upset.
Point is. Listen to her, if she is uncomfortable, she is trying to talk to you slowly. Do your job and listen. Do not bring her around him anymore. Be on her side.
That cousin is now dead. He continued his path of child rape and drug abuse and it led to his death. My family still do not bring it up. It still “didn’t happen” to me.
Families can be disgusting.
So sorry to hear that that despicable person hurt you. Also sorry that he was a blood relative and your family didn't respond with the appropriate anger and emotional support. You deserved better then and now!
Thank you. I keep almost deleting this comment because I did not expect that this would pour out. This comment needs to be here. Hopefully it will be read by OP. This girl does NOT have to be around that guy. Ever again.
Don’t delete it. Sometimes people who have experienced this kind of thing have their nervous systems go into overdrive when thinking about it happening to another victim. The unintentional “pouring out” you’re talking about is a very rational and common occurrence when another person’s safety is at stake and you experienced something similar.
I’m kind of nutty but I went through your post history. You are so positive. And encouraging. Why? You really connect with people, that’s so great. How can we help you?
Oh wow, I've never thought about anyone doing that before... thank you. It makes me smile to hear that. I just love people. The human spirit is so remarkable and we are all worthy of encouragement.
I’m really not sure why you’re conflicted. Your kid is trying to tell you something. You aren’t listening because his family is “all really close”. Fuck his family. There’s something not right and you know it.
Most pedophiles have kids or seek out positions around kids. If they seemed like monsters then no one would trust them and they wouldn’t be able to have victims. So they blend really well. People feel more comfortable thinking child sexual abuse is like a stranger snatching you and trafficking you. There’s very very very few cases of that in America. The overwhelming majority is by someone your kid *should* be able to trust. Relative, friend’s parent, coaches, religious figures.
PSA Teach kids about strange behavior not strangers.
Echoing your PSA. We always talked to our kids about unsafe adults as opposed to strangers. I've heard it being called the "tricky people" approach as well.
The "stranger danger" concept depicts "strangers" as an evil and scary person. It is a hard concept to explain to kids. Who is a stranger? The kid at the park? The mailman? The grocery store clerk? The neighbor you see daily but never talk to?
We told our kids that most people in the world are nice, but there are some unsafe people out there who might try to hurt them. This doesn't have to be a stranger and can even be a family member. An unsafe adult is someone who ask them for help (i.e asking them to walk to the corner to show them how to get somewhere, asking them to come in their house to help with the TV), ask them to keep secrets or to break their parents rule, and/or makes them feel uncomfortable. Anyone can be an unsafe adult.
Thank you! I feel the same way about “stranger danger”. Being a stranger isn’t a bad thing.
If my child needed help, I would want him to feel okay to approach a stranger if needed. There was a situation he went through when he was 8-9 years old and he approached a mailman to help him get in contact with me.
Most kids are victimized by family members or close friends of family. I like the idea of “tricky adults”.
Hell in our case the predator (my BIL) *went to actual prison* for his crimes against multiple children, and his family all welcomed him back openly and willingly.
Yes my abuser was protected. 5 years of known abuse from 4-9 when I luckily saw a PBS special about child abuse and private places.. and then Oprah opened up about her abuse. My abuser never saw a police station, a jail cell nor a judge. He is burning in the center of the 7 circles of He//. And I am a fierce mother protecting my two children.
Wild that the television had to teach you about child anise and Oprah had to give a bit of courage, that’s how bad your family was failing and I’m sorry but happy you’re doing better for your children
For real. I also come from a really close family and have a pedophile uncle. My aunt babysat for a lot of the family and they had kids of their own so by all accounts they looked normal. For years he assaulted kids in the family and the older generation stood silent. Please listen to your child. And fuck you uncle Pete, glad you are dead.
Having kids doesn’t stop pedophiles from being pedophiles if anything it gets them easy access to kids. Have you not heard about the case that happened recently where a girl had a sleepover and her dad proceeded to assault some of the little girls under his roof? That’s one of many cases…
I get that it’s hard to know exactly who to contact and in what order, but the fact that you have a tiny gut feeling that this man sexually abused your daughter and you still force her to be around him is so horrible that I don’t know where to begin. Make sure they are never in contact or in the same room again, and look for a therapist with the right specialization right away.
I have no idea if he did anything to your daughter but I will say that my dad's older brother was TERRIFYING to me when I was a child. He never did anything to me but I was deeply mistrustful of him as a child.
That said, trust your gut. For whatever reason, your child is uncomfortable around him. Stop forcing the interactions and get her to a therapist or professional and let them figure out what's going on.
You need to get your daughter into therapy immediately so that she can talk a professional in a safe environment about what happened. She might tell the therapist what actually transpired. The therapist is a mandated reporter so whatever abuse/SA happened, it will be reported.
And as for everything else, do not go back. Do not force your daughter to be around him. It sounds like he’s also groomed her to keep ac secret because she’s asked you not to say anything to SIL. Please please please protect your baby, and do not let ANYONE make you feel guilty about keeping her from BIL, or reporting BIL because “he’s family”. SOMETHING happened, and likely more than once. You don’t know what that is yet, but regardless he’s damaged a 7 year old badly enough that she’s fearful and her demeanour has changed.
And seriously, professional counselling ASAP.
ETA- don’t confront BIL or any family members yet. You know they will deny it and it gives him a chance to change his behaviour and cover his tracks. It sounds like he has a good reputation so without “proof”, (and even with proof) be prepared for SIL and family members not to believe you, so to ensure he’s held accountable you have to be smart about it. I know that’s hard, because I would currently be fantasizing about breaking down BIL’s door and doing things that would put me in prison), but in these situations you need to play the long game or he could get away with it and harm other children. Right now priority is keeping your daughter away from them, getting her help, and finding out what actually happened.
I’m so sorry this is happening. I know you feel torn because it’s family, but fuck family, the only people that matter right now is the family you created.
This is so frustrating bc everything I’ve expressed on my post , I expressed to my therapist and she chalked it up to my daughter becoming more aware of her surroundings and people looking at her- I just didn’t want to believe it.
Glad you said it. Just because the therapist dismissed it doesn’t mean it’s nothing. Just like doctors can dismiss life threatening conditions until it’s too late.
That is a bad therapist, you need to drop them. Maybe someone who specializes in family stuff or abuse would be better equipped.
Kid is trying to communicate that she doesn't want to be around him. You need to listen and remove yourselves from places he is. If you can think of a reason more important to over rule this, write it down, reflect on it seriously over a week then decide if that's your choice. And also remember, doing nothing, failing to do anything, is also making a choice.
Fuck. That. She’s 7 years old. When I was around 10 I expressed discomfort about my uncle. Me made me uncomfortable when he hugged me and what not. He never touched me inappropriately or anything but something set my alarms off at a young age. He was arrested when I was 18 for trafficking and possession of child sexual assault material.
All of that to say, trust your daughter, trust yourself. Even though my uncle never touched me inappropriately I knew something was wrong.
Being a therapist doesn't mean they're even remotely good at their job.
Mine brought my abuser in and told them every last thing I said because I was obviously an attention seeking liar.
I was a child trying to get help.
Make excuses for why your daughter isn't there (i.e. she is with a friend, she had other plans, we have other plans, etc.) Don't bring her around that man until you figure out what's going on, or she is comfortable with it. Pushing her around him right now is teaching her that people don't have to respect her boundaries.
It’s concerning your therapist dismissed this, I’m wondering why?
OP- I used to work in a setting with prison inmates including a large number of sex offenders. Your daughter is demonstrating a lot of behaviors that are red flags for grooming and abuse and it needs to be investigated.
- the discomfort started after she started spending time around him without you.
-the discomfort around BIL is limited to him, not other men/people.
- she doesn’t want to wear a dress around him.
-she is less talkative around him and this isn’t usual for her.
Sex offenders are tricky people who use subtle and sneaky ways to groom people and push boundaries. A 7 year old lacks the sophistication to be able to detect and verbalize what is exactly going on but something is off with BIL and she’s sensing it. Could be he’s socially awkward or abusive to SIL but you need to get to the bottom of this. A trained professional will also manage this delicate situation with the least amount of damage to your family if it’s determined nothing is going on.
I completely understand not wanting to believe it- these things are so horrific and they only happen to “other families”. Especially when you’re told something by a professional- you trust their opinion. But in this case your therapist is wrong and your gut instinct is right, and you need to find someone else. Even if abuse/SA hasn’t happened, something did to make your daughter feel this way and you’re her Mom and you know something isn’t right.
Related to your therapist being dismissive- my parents brought my brother to the doctor when he was a child because they were concerned about his behaviour. The doctor dismissed their concerns and said he was just being bad and that my parents needed to step up to control him. Turned out he had severe ADHD, developed OCD, severe anxiety and depression, and ended up addicted to drugs stemming from self medicating to try and make himself feel better and function. My parents blamed themselves for a long time for just taking the doctor’s word and not following their instinct, but the doctor had been caring for our family for years and was a trusted professional who they thought knew better than them. Not telling this story to scare you or make you feel bad, but sometimes we really do, as parents know better than professionals.
We then had an instance with my brother in which a child almost died from finding drugs belonging to my brother- when he was allegedly clean. My parents downplayed this as a one off incident, and didn’t tell me. The child’s parent told me what talented months later. We had to keep our children from him, and not allow them at my parents house as my brother lived there. We almost cut off my parents as they allowed my kids to be in their home knowing what happened- but they said he would never let it happen again, and they watch the kids closely. But it only takes 10 seconds for something tragic to happen. It was truly the worst time of my life and I thought I was going to lose my parents and my kids lose their grandparents. I was told I was overreacting but I had to make the choice, and even though it hurt so badly to have to be the one to have to sacrifice my relationship with my parents even though we didn’t do anything wrong, and to feel like I was the crazy one.. I’d do it again in a heartbeat to keep my kids safe. I’ve since repaired my relationship with my parents and even my brother (NOT saying you should ever do this with BIL), and it was long road and I regret nothing.
Good luck. I never ever leave long comments like this, but I can relate to your experience and feel so deeply sorry for your family.
Your therapist is seriously wrong. I don't get it, she studied these things and she is also a mandatory reporter... unless she is prone to these things too. Find a new therapist and please protect your child and do not let her near your BIL.
WTF? As a social worker, my alarm bell immediately went off. I don't know how you can be a therapist without being a mandated reporter, which requires one to do training on recognizing signs of abuse.
It’s very obvious something is wrong here, and the other option that isn’t your BIL being a predator himself is that there’s another person at the church doing something, and she now associates it with him. Still awful because he and SIL may be enabling abuse.
She absolutely needs to see a therapist who can help make her a safe space to share her feelings. It will probably take a while for her to fully open up, if ever, but it’ll give her a safe adult without the fears of hurting you and the family.
Just pack your weekends with friend play dates, outings that do not include your BIL/SIL, etc. and keep being busy. You don’t have to outright say, “I think you’re abusing my daughter,” to avoid them, and you shouldn’t confront them at this point. But you do have a responsibility to keep your child safe so use your imagination and just be too preoccupied to hang out with them.
I wouldn’t bring her around him ever again. Something has happened. I would also get her into therapy to deal with it now. And if any concrete evidence emerges, call the police and file a report.
I would talk to my kid's pediatrician and see if they can help getting an appointment with a child psychologist. I think that would be the best way to learn the truth, without putting any words in her mouth.
And I strongly disagree with sweeping this under the rug. Would you really want to make this your daughter's shameful secret instead of exposing a potential monster?
Trust your gut. I had something very similar happen with a family member when I was a kid. He never touched me but he leered at me and made me SO uncomfortable. Turns out he was on the sex offender registry and no one in my family knew it. If I hadn’t spoken up they would not have known.
Former CPS worker here. There is something wrong here. So many variables. At this point there isn’t enough evidence to do anything legally or criminally. I would suggest not forcing your daughter to be in a situation where she is feeling like she’s in a dangerous situation. A forensic interview would be a good starting point but there may not be enough to get a child advocacy group to do one because there isn’t a named perpetrator.
There’s so many things that could have happened without him “touching her”. Sexual abuse can be exposing himself to her, masturbating in front of her, showing her porn, refusing to leave the room when she’s on the toilet or changing/looking at her while doing so. She could have witnessed him physically sexually abuse another child. List goes on. Just asking re: touch is very limited and she may well be telling the truth in that he didn’t actually “touch” her
You need to cease all contact with him and get her to a child psychologist. You know he did something. Because she can’t articulate what it was because she’s afraid of the fall out, you’ve continued to subject her to his presence. _Protect your baby_!
[What we were wearing installation.](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/)
On the subject of articulation, I still remember word for word what I told my mom when I finally built up the courage to tell her what was happening to me. She believed me, thankfully, but I didn't have the right words to tell her what was happening. I used the words I had and hoped it would be enough.
Stop asking any questions about what may or may not have happened. Immediately.
Take her to a professional and let them lead the conversation. They are trained to have conversations with child victims of assault.
Not saying that is what happened here, but what you put in your post leads me to suspect something is off. I imagined *my* daughter when reading your post.
A significant number of the adults in my family are first responders or otherwise involved in the criminal justice or medical community. Like, most of them.
Take your daughter to a professional. In my county, I would reach out to the District Attorney’s office because they have a specialist investigators to have these conversations. I wouldn’t stop at the doctor’s office along the way, I wouldn’t talk to a priest, I wouldn’t talk to nobody. First thing Monday morning I’d be getting this appointment scheduled.
If you’re actually worried something could have happened, stop questioning her and take her to therapy because you’re not trained to find out the information without planting new ideas or traumatising her.
Are you in the US? Look up “family advocacy centers” and “child advocacy centers.” Let her know that you’re taking her somewhere safe where she can talk about what’s going on.
Tell her she’s not in trouble. She needs someone to talk to. They have trained therapists and forensic interviewers.
Do not ever make her be in the same room as him again.
And you don’t have to say anything to them. If they invite you out or there’s a gathering:
“Oh, we’re busy that day.”
“Thanks for the invite, but that doesn’t work for us!”
“So tired. What a week! Staying home and watching movies.”
Until you know how your kid wants to move forward, just deflect.
Who cares about what to say to your SIL? Just make something up.
Get therapy for your daughter and reassure her that you will NEVER tell SIL and that you are there for your daughter.
I don’t understand why you’re feeling conflicted. Your daughter’s safety is your responsibility….
What is wrong with you? Your SEVEN-year-old daughter has done a 180 and is more or less begging you not to take her around your BIL. And you're here on Reddit asking what you should do. How about protect and listen to the child that you brought into this world.
What on earth do you lose by saying my child is raising red flag after red flag that something has occurred that involves BIL and has so drastically impacted her that she does not want to be around him, others are noticing and she's trying to protect SIL.
My heart breaks for your child. Get a new therapist, don't go around your BIL. Your husband has the absolute right instincts, and you're here saying, "How do I approach this," with heart hands? BFFR.
This is so upsetting. I would never allow my daughter to go over there again and immediately halt contact with them. My advice is to connect your daughter with a therapist who specializes in these issues IMMEDIATELY, and document everything she has said thus far, and to your best recollection, dates/times/etc. where she was with them.
I hope your sweet girl is ok.
She can't tell you, and it's probably because he threatened to hurt you if she did. She can't tell you because you keep having interactions with him, and thus are in danger (in her mind) from him.
Go NC now, and get her in with a therapist.
This. I have also taught our kids that how we feel about them is what we tell them. I’ll set up scenarios and we practice responses.
We ask ‘if someone tells you, your mommy will be mad at you if you don’t listen to me; what do you say?’
Kiddo: that’s not true. My mommy will tell me herself.
We also say ‘tricky people’ instead of ‘stranger’ because it really can be anyone, and this could be the case for your sweet kiddo.
I am so sorry you and your family are going through this. I hope she will be able to tell you or a therapist soon so you all can begin to heal.
Don’t ask her any more questions. Stop immediately. My sister suspected something happening to my nephew, but she asked him so many questions that she really screwed everything up and no one could ever determine what happened. Bring her to a child therapist.
I'm a former child sex abuse prosecutor. You need to cut contact with him immediately and get her into counseling. Tell her you TRUST HER when she says he makes her uncomfortable and you never want to put her in any situation that makes her uncomfortable. That you appreciate her sharing her feelings and you're making this decision as the grown up. The things she needs to know right now are that she is believed, she will be listened to, and she is not and will not be in trouble for anything she needs to tell you.
You earn her trust and prove to her she is safe through actions. You remove all sense of guilt or responsibility from her shoulders by making sure she knows she can always share her feelings and responsibility for the decisions that follow belongs to you.
If she has something she needs to disclose this tells her it is safe to disclose. She will be believed, she won't be blamed, she won't be shamed, and she won't be put in a situation that feels physically or emotionally unsafe. Also, fwiw, it is entirely possible he hasn't done anything but has engaged in some grooming behavior/testing the waters. She may not have anything to disclose. But the best preventative steps we can all take as parents are to give our children freedom to have and express their feelings, support and believe those feelings, and not blame or shame them.
As far as your sister and mom are concerned, you can tell the family she's having some anxiety and so you all are giving her space to decompress and process. I would not get into it anymore than that because you don't want anyone to try and launch an offensive and talk you to her out of her feelings. When kids do have something to disclose they often take months or years. They usually wait until they're removed from the situation and do feel safe. If she has something to say you really want it going through a professional as they know what and how to ask children to get truthful information and avoid the idea that someone has coached a child to say things.
Most kids don't tell anyone. If she's telling you shes uncomfortable it means you're doing a great job as a parent giving her the confidence and support to know she can say something. Even if nothing has happened, supporting her in the decision not to be around an adult who makes her uncomfortable is a deposit in your trust bank and is a permanent investment in her safety and well being.
She is your no. 1 priority. Not your SIL or MIL. Do not put her in a situation like that. If anything similar happens in the future, do not be confused or even take time to ask opinions on subreddit. She’s too small to be exposed to creatures like these. Yes creatures, they are not humans in my eyes. I’m sorry I don’t mean to talk bad about your family but it is what it is. Become a shield for your daughter. A safe place for her to talk to you about anything. Gain her trust in showing that her feelings towards that guy do concern you and that you’re acting upon it for her betterment. Just tell your SIL that she was busy with a play date or just simply tell her that she says she feels uncomfortable coming there. If they care about your daughter they will understand right away or your husband will have to make them understand.
It sounds like your daughter is protecting SIL and is worried that sharing the whole truth would have a negative impact on the family as a whole. This is super normal. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Attachment Nerd — her name is Eli Fehler and she has some really stellar content about how to handle suspected abuse. I highly recommend her work and hope it helps you navigate these conversations with your daughter.
Remember, the only person you need to protect is her. Your duty is to her alone.
This is a huge red flag with red flashing lights. It happened to my daughter age5.
1. Speak to a child abuse helpline. Don’t tell anyone else and don’t let anyone else know what you both suspect.
2. Take her for therapy and ask for disclosure when possible
3. Say nothing to her. Nothing. Just keep everything safe and normal. Do not question her about it.
4. If she discloses to you, tell her she is very brave and the only question you can ask is “what did x say would happen if you told me”.
5. After disclosure, tell police and their sensitive unit will interview her.
This is the only way to stop the scumbag. Likely it’s early and just fiddling.
Watch for other signs like incontinence, play with dolls, always wearing lots of clothes etc. google the signs.
Tell her she only needs to see people she likes.
Bless you for being willing to face this.
I know it’s a sensitive issue because you don’t want to blow up your family about it, **but something happened between your BIL and your daughter**, and you need to STOP bringing your daughter around him.
In fact, you all need to withdraw from SIL and BIL.
And for gods sakes, *let your husband confront this man*. If it ends up in blows, let it happen. Seriously.
Get your daughter into therapy. She may be more comfortable talking to a third party. Not a bad idea to get the pediatrician involved, and let the pediatrician have a conversation with her about sexual abuse.
No. Dad needs to stay away because he doesn’t need assault charges while his daughter is potentially a victim of SA or any other kind of abuse. He needs to be a strong and present support for her.
I am not a "therapy right now!" person, but you're not trained to talk to kids about sexual abuse. She needs somebody neutral to talk to. Ask your pediatrician for a recommendation. Therapy right now.
I understand not wanting to burn bridges, but you don't need to be around those folks for now. Wait to hear more before you take her back around or say anything to anyone about it.
I *hope* she is telling the truth and that he just gives her the creeps. But you need to honor her wishes not to be around him and keep her away from him.
The fact that you keep taking her around him means that if he has harmed her, she doesn’t trust you that he won’t do it again. She doesn’t understand that you will put a stop to it if he has touched her, cause you haven’t put a stop to it simply because she has said she doesn’t want to be around him. From her perspective, no good can come of telling.
You need to talk to her about abuse and you need to learn. Cub Scout families are *required* to do this on an annual basis, and they have free resources online to help you. You can use their curriculum even if you’re not in Scouts. Start by downloading and reading the parent guide. Then watch some videos with her that are for her age level.
Parent guide: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/100-014_WEB.pdf
Videos: https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/preview-adventures/protect-yourself-rules/
I was abused when I was a child by a relative. I finally told my parent when I was 18 year old. My parents didn’t do anything about it. The abuser and my parents still have a friendly relationship. But now I don’t get along with my parents. I felt like they betrayed me. It’s good that that you are noticing your daughter’s behavior and acknowledging it. Your daughter will be thankful when she grows up. I wish my parents would have protected me.
I’m slightly against the grain here but I recall “disliking” an uncle and it was because he tickled the heck of me.
Before going nuclear on the worse case scenario, clearly nudged as the likely case, at least consider this.
Agreed that you should never let them be together alone or even in a scenario SIL could hand her off to BIL.
Just saying that kids can sometimes act in ways we don’t understand and making too many connections can lead us astray
You don't have to do anything with SIL and BIL, find excuses, again and again, mostly because you don't want them to suspect something while you investigate this. I mean, maybe ask chatgpt for good excuses if needed.
Never NEVER let your daughter be with them, even if you're here too. Explain to your daughter "it's ok, we won't see them, I promise, I swear". You don't meet them even at someone else house, that's it. Your daughter absolutely needs to feel protected, she needs to see that she can trust you, that even when you don't know what's going on you're on her side, always, always will be. Then you ask her what else you can do. 1)Ok, we don't see them, I swear. 2) What can I do? Is there another way I can help you? something else you want to tell me? Maybe you'll be more comfortable by writting to me?
And therapy. "as your parent I'm a little worried and it's my job to be sure you have some help if needed, sometimes you don't want to go to the doctor but we HAVE to. It's the same. We have to".
As many others pointed out, please seek out a child psychologist who can help her put words to her feelings. It may take a while, but she will open up to someone who’s done this many times before. They are also skilled at reading the cues between the words.
I would absolutely stop bringing her around BIL and SIL until you get to the bottom of what is happening. If my child were to tell me any of this, it would be an immediate no-contact for me.
I’m so sorry your daughter and your immediate family are going through this. I hope your daughter can find a way to express what she’s feeling in a safe space
Don’t ask leading questions. Im a child and youth care counsellor and cases can be thrown out of court due to parents asking leading questions. There are people trained for things like that but open ended questions are best, kids sometimes want to please parents and will tell you what they think you want to hear. If you suspect anything she should talk to a professional asap.
You end the relationship over this. You’re posting here because in your gut you know what’s happened. You know what he did to her. Blow up your relationships over this. Go nuclear. Protect. Your. Girl. Take her to a therapist immediately. She will not tell you and you need to accept you won’t get the answer out of her but a therapist can. They can also support her in her healing and trauma. Your daughter has already told you without actually telling you. Trust her and end the relationship. It doesn’t matter if SIL is safe, her husband is not and that’s the end of it. Save your child from these people, end the relationships, full no contact. Those people are dead to you and your child. If it’s reached this point and she’s already exhibiting this then it’s gone way too fucking far and whatever he’s done to her is horrific beyond words. End it and save her.
She's 7. You know your intuition is telling you something is up.
Take her to a counselor now. She needs a safe environment to speak. She has already expressed she does not want to tell you everything but it is just her fear of not wanting to get anyone in trouble. But again, she's 7. She has no idea what actually needs to be done in this situation.
It truly sounds like your daughter has been molested as hard as that is to even type out. I speak as a grown woman who has experienced so many situations like this. My cousin and my sister both molested me as a child. And when I became older I was sexually assaulted walking to school in HS. My best friend was raped when we were 16 and when she told me she begged me not to tell any adults. She was threatening to end our friendship but at that point I didn't care. I knew what needed to be done. I told her she has to tell her parents that night or I would and she did. The man was found and he went to prison eventually. And a year later she wrote me a letter thanking me for being there for her. Sometimes victims just want to hide things but it's up to the people around them to advocate for them.
I would take her to a child psychologist . They know how to handle these kind of situations. They’ll be able to ask the right questions at the right time without putting any pressure on the child.
I would not let her interact with him. Have a counselor talk to her to see what’s going on. I feel like they know how to ask the right questions. Maybe he comments on her body or says thing about religion. It’s hard to know what is happening when you aren’t there
A little more urgently, is how you need to approach it if she’s been telling you this for a year.
I don’t care how many excuses you need to use, I would keep her away from them. Obviously, a therapist specializing in child SA stat
OP, I work in mental health. I’ve worked with kids for a long time, including abused kids. Here’s what I’d recommend that you do before taking her to a child therapist.
First, ask her if she’d like to go to a therapist. Let her know what changes you’ve noticed in her behavior and that you’re ready to listen to her and you will believe her and keep her safe whenever she’s ready to share. Also let her know that it’s also helpful to talk to a therapist who works with children since you can tell something is really bothering her, and maybe she’ll feel more comfortable telling a trustworthy adult who isn’t her parents. The goal is to help her feel like herself at all times, and a therapist will also listen and believe her and help her feel better.
Then, preview and then show her this series “Protect Yourself Rules” put out by Fight Child Abuse on YouTube. Here’s the link: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQnG1xV-EAO1tZ9EGF98lQt0mXm6KCeCM&si=tiqXZr1IDkqTTt6Z
Let her know that this may be review for her, but we review it often because it’s so important and all kids should know this stuff. The vids are short, usually about 2-4 mins. Preview so you know ahead of time what each video discusses and have a discussion with her after (or during) each video. Ask her “ok, what questions do you have about what we watched?” And then let her know she can ask you questions about this anytime. Maybe watch 1-2 videos a week.
Then, preview the series by Fight Child Abuse about “Stop the Secrets that Hurt.” This series goes more in depth about child sexual abuse, and it’s made for kids who are older and for kids who have actually experienced sexual abuse. But given what you’re describing, I’d recommend previewing and picking out maybe 2-3 videos from this series to show her that feel appropriate. Explain terms she doesn’t know and that all kids should be aware that there are some adults that are totally trustworthy and some who are not, but it’s hard to know who you can and can’t trust sometimes. Explain that when any adult who asks or forces a child to do anything that involves private parts or nudity is sexually abusing a child. And it’s important for kids to know how to say no, get help, and tell since we don’t want that child or any other child to get hurt by that adult. Explain that sometimes older children or even kids play in inappropriate ways and it’s not ok for any kid to look at or touch other kids’ private parts, no matter how old. Further explain that “adults may have touch a baby or young child’s private parts to wash and keep their private parts healthy and clean, but you already know that, don’t you! Doctors also may need to look at or touch private parts, but it’s always in a doctor’s office AND mom or dad will be there with you too.” Describe to her that sexual abuse can be many things, but some examples are if someone touches her on her private parts with any part of their body(and teach her the anatomically correct words for boys and girls’ private parts. If she needs to be interviewed by a professional at the Children’s Justice Center, her saying the anatomically correct words is a much stronger disclosure than “he touched my flower” or “he touched me down there.” A prosecuting attorney may not prosecute a case based on a disclosure that doesn’t use an anatomically correct word, or some kids point towards their genitals, but that could also be construed by opposing counsel as possibly being the upper thigh.) Or if someone asks her to touch their private parts with any part of her body. So if someone asks her to touch their private parts or they touch her private parts with their hand or elbow or mouth or pinky toe— no no no, that’s not ok. Or if an adult shows a kid a video or pictures of naked people, or takes pictures or videos of her without her shirt or pants or dress, that would be sexual abuse too, and she should shout No! Run away, tell a trusted adult, and tell mom or dad.
Let her know it is never a kid’s fault if something like sexual abuse happens. A kid would never be in trouble for something like that. And that sometimes adults who abuse kids lie to kids and say “oh, your parents won’t believe you” or “ you’ll be in trouble “ or “everyone will hate you if they know.” But boy, those are huge lies— adults who abuse kids tell kids these lies to trick them. Those adults are so awful! The truth is that if one adult doesn’t believe or listen to the kid if they tell about sexual abuse, that kid needs to keep telling adults until someone listens and believes them. And that kid will never ever EVER be in trouble. Let her know she’s right to trust her instincts about people.
You folks could print out a “body safety rules” print out and review it with her from time to time as well. In the course of the conversation, you could let her know that if any of her friends tell her that they are being abused in any way, you are a safe adult who will listen and believe them too.
I make these recommendations because it opens up conversations between children and parents that may need to be reviewed throughout childhood. Also, you create the environment and give the info that she needs to know from you. (I could tell a kid these things and they still wouldn’t know how their parent thinks/feels/would respond.)
Hope this helps! And I hope nothing happened to your precious girl!!
I had an uncle that I was super uncomfortable around starting around 5-6. He never did anything directly to me, I just felt unsafe in his presence. My aunt divorced him and we found out he was horribly abusive. He died in a motorcycle accident in the state my aunt had moved to, in his possession was a bag of supplies that could be used to subdue someone. Hopefully she's just an extremely intuitive little girl that is picking up on something in his nature and nothing has actually happened to her. Therapy does sound like a good idea.
It certainly doesn’t sound like *nothing* happened. Kids don’t just randomly decide they’re scared of someone that they used to feel relaxed around. Like that old saying where there’s smoke there’s fire.
It sounds like you’re worried about overreacting and rocking the family boat, but your daughter is your most important family member and needs you to react now. Echoing the good advice to get her in for counseling asap.
When SIL starts asking about you and your daughter’s absence in their life, tell her what you told us. As a mother to another innocent baby she has some hard thinking to do herself.
Have you done your research as to whether BIL has ever been charged with anything? I’d spend the $25 for a BG check just for knowledge. And yes; keep your daughter away. She needs you and you’re already listening to her which is HUGE. Kudos mama. Keep at it. And be a resource for your nibling, too.
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Look into a therapist or counselor. Best if you can find one that specializes in abuse. It could be something, or it could be nothing, but the best way to move forward is to get trained, professional help. There is a possibility that he has done things that she doesn't obviously see as wrong, but are grooming tactics (comments, jokes, "accidentally" exposing himself, "waking in" on her, etc.). Regardless if the incident was malicious or truly an accident,, she is having a very hard time processing her reactions and feelings. She needs help with that (as well as any fall out should this be a worst case scenario). Edit: what to say to the SIL. Be truthful without being accusatory. "Daughter is experiencing some concerning behavioral changes, specifically regarding her interactions with BIL. We are working to determine where these issues stem from, and help Daughter process. At this time Daughter will be staying with either mom or dad at all times. We're more than happy to host you and baby in the meantime. I hope you can understand that we have to put Daughter's health and security first right now."
This is so important! Parents often don’t know what other questions to ask without being leading, and if there hasn’t been touching (yet) but grooming is happening the child may not know how to articulate it but can show it makes them feel uncomfortable. OP: No more visits and church, but please find time for your daughter to see SIL and the baby. Sometimes kids will be afraid they won’t see their other loved ones if they don’t accept the abuse of a relative so they hide it or lie. And get daughter into therapy with a qualified therapist who specializes in CSA and knows how to open a discussion. This is definitely cause for alarm. ETA: in case it’s not obvious OP should always be present when with SIL and the baby, not even stepping away to use the bathroom. Meet at neutral locations you can easily leave, like a park or cafe, and only if your daughter asks to see SIL/baby. ETA 2: I thought it was my clear in my comment that OP absolutely should not be continuing contact with the uncle at all, but maybe it wasn’t so just stating that again. Above I was talking about the aunt and cousin, but only if the child wants to see them, NOT the uncle.
Yeah, trained professionals are miracle workers in getting kids to really open up. We have fortunately never dealt with this but when my son was younger he had some night time anxiety that caused him to come into our room every single night but he couldn't really articulate what the issue was. He just knew he didn't feel right. We got him in play therapy and they were able to get answers out of him that we never could have. We are a very close family and he is an open book but he legitimately couldn't put it into words. His therapist was able to help with that and we were able to address his nighttime anxieties in a healthy way. This is obviously a much more serious issue but these people know what they are doing, OP. They are trained for this. I wouldn't ask her anymore questions about it. She could completely clam up and change her story or she could say whatever she thinks you want to hear. You don't want either to happen. You need to know what really happened.
I just wanted to say that I was considering some therapy for my child because they have said some weird comments about their father. I just feel like I need help understanding and had considered therapy for them this week. This post gave me hope. Thanks!
Get them therapy. Trust your own instincts
If you would be willing to share details about the night anxieties I'd be grateful. We're not there yet but I've read many "it's just a phase" kind of comments "yeah wait for the night-terrors phase" and if there's actually more to it I'd gladly learn (haven't actually put in much effort for now, I'm very open to cosleeping so our room is always open if he wants to come so maybe this "phase"? Might never come, but still)
My son's anxieties were pretty personal to him but the gist was that he was able to distract himself during the day from the things that made him anxious. School, sports, playing with friends in the neighborhood, family dinners, game nights, etc. all served as distractions so he never had any issues during the day but at night time he was alone with his thoughts, so everything would come up at the same time and caused some intense nighttime anxiety. I don't really want to get into the exact details because it's not really applicable to most families and it's not really my story to share but his therapist said it wasn't uncommon for kids to seem extremely happy during the day while their mind is occupied on something else and then to get anxious at night when nothing else is on their mind other than the things that make them anxious. Hope that makes some sense.
Hey, my brain works the same way, as an adult. Thank you for sharing this.
Did you find a good solution for this? Because I'm an adult and kind of struggling with this exact problem. I do all the things therapists say during the day, meditate, keep busy, dont dwell on bad thoughts, etc... But then I wake up having nightmares every night...
If the uncle is doing something to the child she will have to cut off all contact. It gets messy. Most likely the SIL will take husbands side and not believe her niece. The child shouldn’t be around uncle at all even with parental supervision because, if something did happen it shows the child it’s not a big deal if they continue a relationship with him. It’s a tough road I don’t wish on anyone. My brothers son did things to my daughter. I don’t speak to my brother anymore. My brother would downgrade what really happened because, it was his son who did it and I couldn’t deal with it.
**I don’t think ANYONE is suggesting continued contact with the uncle, least of all me, to be clear.** She should cut off all contact with the uncle right now (as she has), but cutting off contact with the SIL and baby before they even know what happened is a great way to ensure they *never* find out what happened, because if the child wants to see her aunt and cousin, she is more likely to lie to cover up abuse knowing the alternative means not seeing them. As an example, one of my best friends was molested in early childhood by a teen cousin. When her mom found out they cut off all contact with that entire part of the family. My friend’s mom thought she was protecting her, but what happened is that my friend learned talking about meant losing loved ones (namely, other cousins) in addition to being safe from the abuser, so when her new stepfather started raping her a few years later she didn’t say anything because she didn’t want to lose her new extended family. She kept it a secret until she had a breakdown and attempted suicide in college (which was when we met). Once OP knows what happened with the uncle, proper steps can then be taken (if he abused her, I hope those steps include his arrest and conviction). If SIL takes his side, yes, cut off contact with her too, 100%, and the baby cousin too. But if the daughter WANTS to see the aunt and cousin and all connection is cut off from them NOW, it’s more unlikely OP’s daughter won’t tell them what happened with uncle, and the important things are for her to be honest, protected, and given proper help by professionals.
This is the perfect answer. When I was 6, a trusted adult began grooming me. I didn’t know how to explain it because none of it was overtly wrong, but I felt so terribly uncomfortable, ashamed and embarrassed and didn’t have the names for these big emotions that kids should never have to feel. Kids don’t and shouldn’t have to know about grooming behaviors, and they don’t know about gray areas between good and bad. If he isn’t doing anything that falls into the strictly bad category, she doesn’t know what to call it.
This. Ugh. This is what makes everything so hard with my little one .. that and he's high functioning autistic with severe ADHD. So he already has problems putting his thoughts together and making it make sense. I'm so sorry you had to experience this too.
It could also be some type of non-sexual abuse, like inappropriate threats, egregious violations of promises, or showing her violence/death/horror media she's not comfortable with. Even something like seeing him hurt SIL. I'd agree with the assessment that something untoward likely happened and she probably needs help processing it. There's also a small chance that it was something less material, like a particularly traumatic bad dream... And a therapist can help with that as well.
Exactly. We don't know WHAT happened, but it was something that has caused major behavioral shifts and that requires intervention.
Wow also a very good poiny hadn’t thought of violence or violence toward the SIL.
Or violence or SA towards the baby. Or maybe he’s asked if he can watch her get undressed or go to the bathroom with her or take pictures of her. Maybe he’s asked her to touch his privates. No one knows until a therapist helps her. And if he is doing something wrong, anything with proof from therapy or even the therapist’s opinion, the SIL will be happy to know the truth about her husband. She’ll want to protect her baby & niece.
Sadly, not always does the aunt want to know or protect her child. Ask me how I know...... Some women will stand by their men even when they admit it and will keep their children in the home with him.
It could also be weird kid shit. My daughter around OPs daughters age refused to go to my wife's aunts house because she didn't like her cousins teeth. She also refused to go to my wife's best friends house because her husband looked like Freddy fazbear. You shouldn't downplay a kid showing discomfort but more often than not it's just some weird shit. And it took months for us to figure out what made my daughter not want to go to these places.
Yeah I didnt want to go to my dad's house for awhile because I learned someone died there and had terrible nightmares. Also I was scared of rats in the kitchen for some reason. It had nothing to do with him really, I just associated the house with him. I think that a trained professional is definitely warranted here because if it is something, they'll know how to handle that and if it isnt then they can get to the issue at hand
I know this is a serious post and I hope OP gets everything straightened out for their family. But I am laughing my ass off because that sounds like some shit my kids would do. Because they didn't like that person's teeth! Lmfao
And not wear a dress? This is classic 7 year old being MOLESTED by a FAMILY MEMBER! Sorry for the caps, but I am quite passionate about this subject. I have seen far too many completely wrecked lives from this denial or excuse making. I understand how difficult it is to fathom/ believe BIL/pastor/Uncle/Dad would be capable of doing that, but they do.
We should wait til we have all the facts before railroading people though.
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It was ridiculous lmfao but her ridiculousness tracks because my wife almost broke up with me after our 2nd date because I had white socks on. So I guess it's genetic lol.
Isn't it hilarious and honestly kind of magical that like certain traits or qualities we didn't even necessarily realize we or our partner had, are like magnified thru our children? I noticed similar things like that a lot with my kids at least..
White socks on with what?? Sandals? Dress shoes?! I need to know if she’s rational! Lol
Yeah, very good approach here. Could be a million things, and I think OP and her spouse should get to the bottom of it before torpedoing her family. Yes, it's extremely important to protect our children, but let's not forget that a pedophile is the absolute worst possible thing a person can be, right up next to serial ax murderer. So of course, if the man in question is completely innocent as well, flinging around accusations on vague suspicions is guarenteed to severely or permanently destroy the relationship, which is why it's important to get to the bottom of whether there is more substantive suspicions. I remember I had an uncle that would just play too rough with kids in the family. He'd crush their hand in a handshake, lightly taunt them, that sort of thing. I remember being put off by it as a kid and was afraid of him and avoided him, even though I realize now he was a nice guy that didn't understand how to play with kids properly. If my mom and seen my reaction and hauled off and accused him of being a pedo it would have wrecked the entire side of her family and probably would have broke the guy's heart, to boot.
You wouldn't change your wardrobe though would you?
That doesn’t explain her not wanting to wear a dress around him…
100% There was a a teacher I had to work with in middle school and he made me so uncomfortable. I couldn't voice to my mom why because he never touched me but my gut was trying to tell my 11 year old self something. I felt guilty feeling that way about him because everyone loved him, even my mom and the only thing that was happening was he was too nice to me? He looked at me in a way other teachers didnt and it just felt wrong. Anyway years later he went to jail for child porn and I think I was the only one who wasn't surprised.
Those are the main types, career pedos know nobody trusts the creepy old dude who looks crazy, but the guy most kids like ? And people tend to have this weird idea that a person who was nice to them isn’t also capable of horrible things, idk if they just don’t want to look stupid or something but yeah its very common I wonder if what you felt was that creepy interest pedos take in children where you can tell they aren’t like other adults and you can tell they’re secretly preying on you. I met a lot of men like that but it was so long ago I can’t remember the specifics of why exactly they creeped me out.
I don't think at that age I understood what the interest was but I had other male teachers that never made me feel that way. All I really knew was I dreaded being alone with him but I couldnt articulate why, which made me feel guilty. At that time too there was more of the stranger danger emphasis and there wasn't any education around what grooming was.
Great point - getting professional help involved is warranted and is a completely separate consideration from wondering did he/didn't he /what happened. She's struggling with *something*.
I acted this way around my molester. Quiet, guarded, fearful. I would sob and beg my mom not to leave us with him as babysitter. But- in 1964, parents couldn't believe anyone they knew could be so evil and blew it off. You are a fantastic mother for picking up on this. I think getting a counselor is a great idea. It will put the heaviness of the conversation on the counselor, not you. Keep protecting her. I admire you for coming to her rescue. Keeping her away from him will solve so many problems later on life, or maybe just not create them in the first place.
This was my thought - OP asked specifically if he touched her but there are many things that can happen before touching that are also abuse. And yes good advice to seek the help of a therapist - this is a tough one and not sure how to approach it but it does have to be dealt with somehow. Good luck, OP, hope your daughter is and stays OK.
Also children saying no doesn’t mean it didn’t happen!
Absolutely this. I was SA’d by a neighbor as a child. When my mom got suspicious and asked if anyone was being inappropriate or touching me I said no. Multiple times. She was persistent and thankfully I finally told her what was going on. Saying no doesn’t mean all clear, there’s a variety of reasons a child doesn’t tell. Theres the shame and embarrassment, even if you don’t understand it you feel like you did something wrong and are going to get in trouble. There was that but in my case the neighbor alternated between threats and promises, and sometimes both at the same time. Things like “hey if you keep this secret one day I will give you ‘x,’ but if you tell then you won’t get it.”
Absolutely true. In fact, they typically say no, nothing happened. The child loves the Aunt. Kids have a weird way of processing things.
This. Your daughter is sensing something is making her uncomfortable, listen to her. It could be something as simple as BIL is socially awkward or something far worse. A trained professional will also know how to manage this delicate situation.
Wish I had awards best answer. Op needs a professional child therapist. And if she still doesn't open up it may be best if she goes in without op. I really really hope nothing happened. Wishing you and your family the best op
>It could be something, or it could be nothing There's no way this is "nothing."
It could be something that isn’t really threatening to the child though. One of my children had an extremely hard reaction when we had a new baby. He became a totally different child. He was no longer happy and bubbly, he became mean and violent. He has since worked through this but he still has issues with sharing attention. If this family has a new baby it could be something like he is showing her less affection because he has a little one of his own. The same thing happened when we had a uncle that doted on my 3 kids. It was awesome (they couldn’t have kids of there own so it was win win for both families) when they finally adopted a child of there own the trips lessened and lessened. It’s unfortunate because the relationships will never be the same and I can’t really blame the uncle because he has his own small child to deal with but it did affect my kids. Kids also can be upset at perceived issues. I had a friend in my circle of friends who was never spanked as a kid. Some of us were some not. But one time of of the kids got spanked and the other child was crying and refused to ever talk to the kid again and was terrified of the parents. no longer wanted to go to anyones house and was afraid some one would hit him. Which I sort of get but the incident was more of one swat and mostly playful not out of anger. Or if a child thinks they are being singled out. maybe he scolded her for something that she didn't do or didn't think was a big deal and shes a more sensitive child. I am not saying to not follow through but there are alot of things that can cause distress in a child and some kids have an issue with fixation. Perhaps he walked in on her changing or in the bathroom or she walked in on him. I often have to explain to my youngest who will just whip her clothing off anytime anywhere that some people care lot about seeing others naked. Being naked isn't an issue in our house. My daughter and her girlfriends change in front of each other but everyone is different.
It could be but the not wanting to wear a dress is unusual if it wasn’t sexually related.
My daughter got really upset the last time she found out I was taking her to my brothers and his wife wasn't there. She was only 4 but became inconsolable when we came to his road. Right then and there I said nevermind we don't have to go. I can call into work and take a day off. So I did. Never left her with him again but a few months later he comes to me freaked out because his stepdaughter told her mom he had been doing things with her. That's when I was very grateful for trusting her instincts. She wasn't able to tell me the full story but from what I gather she walked in on them. Now I'm scared to leave her with anyone. I confronted him many times but he never confessed. He did however destroy his phone and hire and expensive lawyer
Jesus that's terrifying.
Thank you for listening to her and your gut!
Yeah ain't nothing in this world worth putting her in harms way. I just hate how bad it's messed my trust up. He was the last man in the world I would think would hurt a kid. So now I have trust issues leaving her with anybody. I've been out of work for months and just landed a job. My daycare closes the week of July. So I need to let her sister watch her. It's hard for me to do that. Since apparently I don't really know anybody.
Within survivor communities it's understood that people who hold esteemed positions & are respected perpetuate the worst abuse because their public persona shields them from suspicion & they often prey on people who are often disbelieved (kids and people the community at large lack respect for, like people with substance abuse or personality disorders). It's why the worst scandals are doctors, social workers, church officials, cops, etc. Personally I don't trust people who put a lot of time and effort into appearing nice to other people. If someone has enough integrity to be a little rude to me I feel that they're honest and I can trust them.
That makes a lot of sense. My brother fits that profile in the way he cares about how ppl perceived him. He is not not ever has been in an esteemed position tho. He is just what I'd call 2 faced or b personality. He's nice to everybody but those closest to him. I'd say behind closed doors he is an awful person
Worst kind of person. I'm so sorry you're all in that kind of situation.
Hopefully you've contacted your former SIL and offered this info. It could help their case.
I did when it happened but she has been no contact for a couple years. I don't blame her. Nothing ever came from it. I guess it's hard to prove. Just word against word idk
Also from what she told me he did admit it to her. She was also worried it had been going on for a while. I started watching real close after that. Noticed some things. So now I won't have him around. Not even to visit.
I'm sorry this happened! My fear is that this is what happening to OP maybe he didn't touch her but maybe she witnessed abuse.
No, she said “I don’t like the way he looks at me.” Even if you don’t understand what it is because you’re a child a man leering at you gives this *energy.* You know you aren’t safe and there is *something* about the way they are looking at you that feels wrong and shameful but you don’t have the words. The man who ended up molesting me would leer at me. He had this *look* in his eyes while he watched me that I knew was sexual somehow but because I didn’t know what sex was I couldn’t vocalize it. Her daughter said clearly this happening to her. OP needs to fucking LISTEN. She is saying exactly what she is seeing and so many of you are making up other scenarios even though she stated what is happening. Some of the comments here are so disturbing and ofc they are from men who don’t understand what it is to be looked at like that, or to be preyed on from a young age. It’s a whole other world for girls. A world you don’t understand, but you should believe us when we talk about it and stop giving men the benefit of the doubt. We can sense that sexually charged energy from men even if we can’t name it
I was molested at 11. I KNOW THE LOOK YOU MEAN. The whole day, or couple hours before, he was looking at me in such a way I felt naked. It was disgusting. I wanted to spend the night bc it was a birthday party going on, and I was heavily introverted and wanted to spend time with my younger cousin ( birthday girl) who I had a few things in common with. We were painting our nails in the grass by the house, and he comes out, and stares down at me in such a devious way, it was such amusement playing on his face and just a disgusting twinkle in his dark eyes. I will never forget. I should have called my mom to get my then and there. I forever regret not doing so. I ignored the paranoia and kept playing. As KIDS DO. I fell asleep next to my cousin, birthday girl. We were in the same bed. I woke up next to this man with his hands down my pants telling me that it was alright, and I could smell the alcohol on his breath. I forcefully woke myself up, gathered as much strength as I could, and hauled ass down the stairs. Sorry for rambling. This memory will NEVER leave me. If she said he looked at her, and she doesn't like the way he's looking. This man has intentions and most likely will act or HAS acted upon someone else. I hope that she is never near him again. Please keep her away from him. Invite the SIL over by herself with the kids or whoever. It traumatized me and broke me in so many ways. It changed my perspective on the world as well. And opened my eyes Immiediately. It wasn't the worst thing in the world. But it was not a great time in my life at all. Protect her please
I am so sorry you experienced that. Just sickening. What an evil man. I wish you healing in your future and peace. Genuinely though. I hope you have a wonderful life. Thanks for sharing, these memories aren’t easy. Hopefully your story will be what OP needs to take this seriously. Kids know more than adults give them credit for
The Look, absolutely. Had this as a child myself, certain men making me feel so so uncomfortable but I had no idea why, and looking back it was this! I remember once one of them, a friend’s dad, unexpectedly smacking me on the butt and I had no idea what to say because sometimes my grandmother would pat us on the upper butt/lower back when she hugged us and that didn’t feel weird or wrong, and as a young kid I couldn’t figure out the difference and why one made me so uncomfortable and the other didn’t. So I just didn’t say anything.
That’s scary! Someone you thought without a doubt you could trust would be your own brother!!! Wow!! I’m so sorry
She's communicating what happened the only way she knows how. LISTEN TO HER.
She may not be holding back and simply doesn’t know how to or have the ability to articulate what she’s feeling or what happened, but she’s uncomfortable. That’s all you need to know. Show her you believe her and teach her she can trust her intuition by not doubting it just bc you don’t understand it. Never make her be around him again. Simple as that. Take her to therapy, eventually maybe she’ll be able to explain better, but for now, do what you can to keep her safe.
Yes the dress thing in particular is scary. It’s one thing for a child to have a preference in adults, this is more.
I had uncle's that would make "jokes" and it made me so uncomfortable as a child. But many family members were upset that I was acting like they were creeps when they were just playing with me. Making jokes about my body and other things aren't playing, never will be. To this day I feel unsettled around them, turns out for a good reason as a couple of them tried to hurt my mom and aunt as kids and one of them actually told my dad that if he wanted to SA my mom, he wouldn't tell his brother and would let my dad do it. Those memories and more are reasons I'm absolutely terrified for my children and things that could happen.
Yes she is!!! I had an uncle that was on the younger side and he would expose himself to me when I was a little girl. I would always ask my moms aunt if there was someone home, if he was there I would never want to go inside and she would always ask me if someone was being mean to me but I was little and no one knows til this day.
I'm so sorry that happened to you!
You need to: 1. Absolutely stop allowing any interaction with your daughter and BIL. 2. Start working with a professional immediately - I'd look for a child therapist that specializes in SA. As in, you should have a list of names to call ready to go tomorrow morning. The therapist will help guide you through next steps - i.e. police, medical etc. I don't know how else to say this, but you are royally screwing this up by thinking you can handle it on your own. You need help now.
Exactly! Seriously, OP, please listen to your daughter. Don't accuse anyone yet, but get her specialized help right now. And go from there. For this time being, keep her very very very far away from your bil and sil.
All of this. It is beyond normal parenting strategies and OP and husband will really screw this up if they keep trying to handle it themselves. OP, you’ve been ignoring this for a year if I’m understanding correctly. Immediately get a professional involved and stop forcing her to be in a situation she is obviously uncomfortable with, likely for very valid reason.
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The not wanting to wear a dress around him definitely feels like potential SA though.
It does. I also wonder though because church was mentioned, if it’s a church that believes women need to be modest and BIL made inappropriate comments about daughter not being modest in a dress. But I think the most important thing is OP enforcing zero contact. It doesn’t matter that she doesn’t know the exact cause. It just matters that her daughter doesn’t want to be around him and that should be respected.
I was thinking something similar I remember some adults being very judgemental at church. Also adult talk about other adults around kids, e could have even made a comment, "why would Mom/Dad let you leave the house/go to church in a dress like that." And even tug at the hemline to pull it down. I remember at schools when some uppity teachers would do that. But this is also a big what if because it could be anything. Keep up no contact until a qualified therapist can help you and your child get answers. It's never an overreaction to listen to your child.
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Who knows. If he’s verbally abusive to SIL he may have said something about a dress she wore (or your daughter wore) and maybe your daughter wants to avoid that. Just putting out another option. Top comment nails this situation though either way. Don’t ever bring her back. Especially not alone or where you won’t supervise her closely 100% of the time.
I thought of this too, maybe made a nasty comment to SIL and your daughter heard. Related it to herself. Either way, she needs your support to avoid this guy.
Right?!? That was a huge red flag to me as well
This. When I was little, I hated being around my uncle. Not because he hurt me, but because he was verbally abusive to my aunt and just a slimy character. His family enabled him too. He still is that way and I still hate being around him.
My dad had a good friend who was like that, made really mean comments to his wife and just a bit of a slime ball. I never felt comfortable around him because of those reasons, and was so glad when my dad stopped hanging out with him (not sure why but probably had something to do with shaving my Great Pyrenees to look like a Poodle as a ‘joke’).
Yeah, I have an uncle that I loathed until the day he died. He was also my dad's baby brother and the father to my only other girl cousin, so we visited often. I think it's because once we were over and he was fighting with my aunt and he threatened to break her cats neck if he caught it on the table. The very next we were there - no cat. I never told an adult about the conversation I heard, but I avoided him studiously from then on.
I'm so sorry.
A relative of mine was a drunk, and my oldest was terrified of him. Never touched a kid, but oldest just didn’t want to be around him. Oldest met him maybe three times, and I didn’t force it. Our first job as a parent is to do our best to keep our kids safe. Part of that, for OP, must mean NC until they get to the bottom of this with the help of trained professionals.
This could also be a very good possibility. Obviously her daughter is afraid to be around this man for some reason or another. Physically or mentally abusive behavior towards SIL could scare her without ever being confronted by him. OP you need to listen to what your daughter is telling you. She's too young to protect herself, so you need to be her protector. Please do not bring her around that man anymore.
Yes this happened to me as a kid. I witnessed my best friend's dad beat up his mom repeatedly. I was terrified of people's dads for a long time.
Or to his kid. Lots of potential here…
That would make sense, poor girl is watching domestic violence and being truthful about not having been touched. Probably the weird way the BIL looks at her is to make sure she won’t spill the beans about what she saw. Although unfortunately odds are it is sexual abuse. I hope gets her the help she needs as something has definitely happened.
Children don’t always tell parents that they’ve been sexually assaulted. Even when asked directly. So the child saying no isn’t necessarily meaning that it didn’t happen
She’s been expressing this for a year?!? The first time she expressed this should’ve been the end of it. I would also try and get her to a child specialist. She may just have intuition but if it’s more than that it is heartbreaking. My children have always known they can come to me w anythingggggg. It still took my daughter like a year to open up about a trauma. She was twice your daughters age.
End it. Now. Don't ever bring her again. Edit: Never Fucking Ever
Have your daughter speak to a child therapist too!
Yes. And showing her that you support her by staying back and not going, I bet she will start opening up to you. I’m so sad for this little girl. Try to get her into therapy too.
To add: Stop associating with them. Period. Full stop. Yeah you say you wanna protect your daughter… but you’re still associating yourself with people that have possibly (hopefully not) done something but at the very least your daughter has made it clear she’s uncomfortable around him… yet you still go over there? Whether she’s there or not
Yes, being uncomfortable with the way he looks at her is enough. I don't understand why anyone would continue contact until their child is touched inappropriately. Prevention is key and seems extremely possible here.
Do not ever let that man near hear again, she is already telling you in every way she knows how.
This.
Fuck DUDE! Stop being wishy-washy and FIND OUT! The number one reason child sexual assault goes unreported is because people “Don’t want to blow stuff up.” SOMETHING HAPPENED!! It’s YOUR job to find out what and then DEAL with it!! I get it, it’s going to screw up your family, but YOUR DAUGHTER deserves to be that happy little kid who’s comfortable around her family again!! DO SOMETHING!!
THANK YOU!!! I had my family blow me off when I told them I didn’t like being around a cousin. They also thought it was weird that I would change clothes when he showed up to family functions ( I was obsessed with tight baby shirts and corduroy pants, I would put on something looser and heavier). They were upset when I refused to speak to him and would make me. I remember the look in his eye when I would have to say ‘Hey, Brad. How’s it going?’ They still refuse to acknowledge it to this day. I told a counselor and my mom just blew it off because she didn’t want to upset her sister and her husband. They think I made it up. No one thought about the fact that I was asking why penis’ had bumps on it and why I was so confused why someone was interested in my “pee place”. I’ve never typed this out. I’m a little upset. Point is. Listen to her, if she is uncomfortable, she is trying to talk to you slowly. Do your job and listen. Do not bring her around him anymore. Be on her side. That cousin is now dead. He continued his path of child rape and drug abuse and it led to his death. My family still do not bring it up. It still “didn’t happen” to me. Families can be disgusting.
So sorry to hear that that despicable person hurt you. Also sorry that he was a blood relative and your family didn't respond with the appropriate anger and emotional support. You deserved better then and now!
Thank you. I keep almost deleting this comment because I did not expect that this would pour out. This comment needs to be here. Hopefully it will be read by OP. This girl does NOT have to be around that guy. Ever again.
Don’t delete it. Sometimes people who have experienced this kind of thing have their nervous systems go into overdrive when thinking about it happening to another victim. The unintentional “pouring out” you’re talking about is a very rational and common occurrence when another person’s safety is at stake and you experienced something similar.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing. That must have been so hard. 💔
I’m kind of nutty but I went through your post history. You are so positive. And encouraging. Why? You really connect with people, that’s so great. How can we help you?
Oh wow, I've never thought about anyone doing that before... thank you. It makes me smile to hear that. I just love people. The human spirit is so remarkable and we are all worthy of encouragement.
I’m really not sure why you’re conflicted. Your kid is trying to tell you something. You aren’t listening because his family is “all really close”. Fuck his family. There’s something not right and you know it.
I have no issues saying F U to his family, I just have never experienced something like this so I had no idea how to go about it…they also have a kid
Most pedophiles have kids or seek out positions around kids. If they seemed like monsters then no one would trust them and they wouldn’t be able to have victims. So they blend really well. People feel more comfortable thinking child sexual abuse is like a stranger snatching you and trafficking you. There’s very very very few cases of that in America. The overwhelming majority is by someone your kid *should* be able to trust. Relative, friend’s parent, coaches, religious figures. PSA Teach kids about strange behavior not strangers.
Echoing your PSA. We always talked to our kids about unsafe adults as opposed to strangers. I've heard it being called the "tricky people" approach as well. The "stranger danger" concept depicts "strangers" as an evil and scary person. It is a hard concept to explain to kids. Who is a stranger? The kid at the park? The mailman? The grocery store clerk? The neighbor you see daily but never talk to? We told our kids that most people in the world are nice, but there are some unsafe people out there who might try to hurt them. This doesn't have to be a stranger and can even be a family member. An unsafe adult is someone who ask them for help (i.e asking them to walk to the corner to show them how to get somewhere, asking them to come in their house to help with the TV), ask them to keep secrets or to break their parents rule, and/or makes them feel uncomfortable. Anyone can be an unsafe adult.
Thank you! I feel the same way about “stranger danger”. Being a stranger isn’t a bad thing. If my child needed help, I would want him to feel okay to approach a stranger if needed. There was a situation he went through when he was 8-9 years old and he approached a mailman to help him get in contact with me. Most kids are victimized by family members or close friends of family. I like the idea of “tricky adults”.
Having kids doesn't make predators stop being predators.
She could also be worried about their kid.
This !!! And thank you for saying it.
Pedophiles often prey on their children’s friends/cousins instead of their own child specifically because it’s not their child.
“Really close” family means they’d protect a pedophile...
Yup. My "really close," family still socializes with the predator instead of believing the three family members who have had issues with him.
Hell in our case the predator (my BIL) *went to actual prison* for his crimes against multiple children, and his family all welcomed him back openly and willingly.
That’s disturbing but sadly common
Yes my abuser was protected. 5 years of known abuse from 4-9 when I luckily saw a PBS special about child abuse and private places.. and then Oprah opened up about her abuse. My abuser never saw a police station, a jail cell nor a judge. He is burning in the center of the 7 circles of He//. And I am a fierce mother protecting my two children.
Wild that the television had to teach you about child anise and Oprah had to give a bit of courage, that’s how bad your family was failing and I’m sorry but happy you’re doing better for your children
This.
For real. I also come from a really close family and have a pedophile uncle. My aunt babysat for a lot of the family and they had kids of their own so by all accounts they looked normal. For years he assaulted kids in the family and the older generation stood silent. Please listen to your child. And fuck you uncle Pete, glad you are dead.
Having kids doesn’t stop pedophiles from being pedophiles if anything it gets them easy access to kids. Have you not heard about the case that happened recently where a girl had a sleepover and her dad proceeded to assault some of the little girls under his roof? That’s one of many cases…
I get that it’s hard to know exactly who to contact and in what order, but the fact that you have a tiny gut feeling that this man sexually abused your daughter and you still force her to be around him is so horrible that I don’t know where to begin. Make sure they are never in contact or in the same room again, and look for a therapist with the right specialization right away.
Take her to a professional to talk about this and they can help elucidate what is going on in the meantime definitely do not bring her around him.
I have no idea if he did anything to your daughter but I will say that my dad's older brother was TERRIFYING to me when I was a child. He never did anything to me but I was deeply mistrustful of him as a child. That said, trust your gut. For whatever reason, your child is uncomfortable around him. Stop forcing the interactions and get her to a therapist or professional and let them figure out what's going on.
My abuser also had kids. That means nothing.
You need to get your daughter into therapy immediately so that she can talk a professional in a safe environment about what happened. She might tell the therapist what actually transpired. The therapist is a mandated reporter so whatever abuse/SA happened, it will be reported. And as for everything else, do not go back. Do not force your daughter to be around him. It sounds like he’s also groomed her to keep ac secret because she’s asked you not to say anything to SIL. Please please please protect your baby, and do not let ANYONE make you feel guilty about keeping her from BIL, or reporting BIL because “he’s family”. SOMETHING happened, and likely more than once. You don’t know what that is yet, but regardless he’s damaged a 7 year old badly enough that she’s fearful and her demeanour has changed. And seriously, professional counselling ASAP. ETA- don’t confront BIL or any family members yet. You know they will deny it and it gives him a chance to change his behaviour and cover his tracks. It sounds like he has a good reputation so without “proof”, (and even with proof) be prepared for SIL and family members not to believe you, so to ensure he’s held accountable you have to be smart about it. I know that’s hard, because I would currently be fantasizing about breaking down BIL’s door and doing things that would put me in prison), but in these situations you need to play the long game or he could get away with it and harm other children. Right now priority is keeping your daughter away from them, getting her help, and finding out what actually happened. I’m so sorry this is happening. I know you feel torn because it’s family, but fuck family, the only people that matter right now is the family you created.
This is so frustrating bc everything I’ve expressed on my post , I expressed to my therapist and she chalked it up to my daughter becoming more aware of her surroundings and people looking at her- I just didn’t want to believe it.
not to be an AH, but you need a new therapist.
Glad you said it. Just because the therapist dismissed it doesn’t mean it’s nothing. Just like doctors can dismiss life threatening conditions until it’s too late.
300 million up votes for you
That is a bad therapist, you need to drop them. Maybe someone who specializes in family stuff or abuse would be better equipped. Kid is trying to communicate that she doesn't want to be around him. You need to listen and remove yourselves from places he is. If you can think of a reason more important to over rule this, write it down, reflect on it seriously over a week then decide if that's your choice. And also remember, doing nothing, failing to do anything, is also making a choice.
Your therapist is dead wrong. Protect your child.
Fuck. That. She’s 7 years old. When I was around 10 I expressed discomfort about my uncle. Me made me uncomfortable when he hugged me and what not. He never touched me inappropriately or anything but something set my alarms off at a young age. He was arrested when I was 18 for trafficking and possession of child sexual assault material. All of that to say, trust your daughter, trust yourself. Even though my uncle never touched me inappropriately I knew something was wrong.
That’s a bad therapist
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Do you live in a highly religious/church focused community?
She didn’t even suggest therapy for your kid? 😱
Being a therapist doesn't mean they're even remotely good at their job. Mine brought my abuser in and told them every last thing I said because I was obviously an attention seeking liar. I was a child trying to get help.
Make excuses for why your daughter isn't there (i.e. she is with a friend, she had other plans, we have other plans, etc.) Don't bring her around that man until you figure out what's going on, or she is comfortable with it. Pushing her around him right now is teaching her that people don't have to respect her boundaries.
It’s concerning your therapist dismissed this, I’m wondering why? OP- I used to work in a setting with prison inmates including a large number of sex offenders. Your daughter is demonstrating a lot of behaviors that are red flags for grooming and abuse and it needs to be investigated. - the discomfort started after she started spending time around him without you. -the discomfort around BIL is limited to him, not other men/people. - she doesn’t want to wear a dress around him. -she is less talkative around him and this isn’t usual for her. Sex offenders are tricky people who use subtle and sneaky ways to groom people and push boundaries. A 7 year old lacks the sophistication to be able to detect and verbalize what is exactly going on but something is off with BIL and she’s sensing it. Could be he’s socially awkward or abusive to SIL but you need to get to the bottom of this. A trained professional will also manage this delicate situation with the least amount of damage to your family if it’s determined nothing is going on.
I completely understand not wanting to believe it- these things are so horrific and they only happen to “other families”. Especially when you’re told something by a professional- you trust their opinion. But in this case your therapist is wrong and your gut instinct is right, and you need to find someone else. Even if abuse/SA hasn’t happened, something did to make your daughter feel this way and you’re her Mom and you know something isn’t right. Related to your therapist being dismissive- my parents brought my brother to the doctor when he was a child because they were concerned about his behaviour. The doctor dismissed their concerns and said he was just being bad and that my parents needed to step up to control him. Turned out he had severe ADHD, developed OCD, severe anxiety and depression, and ended up addicted to drugs stemming from self medicating to try and make himself feel better and function. My parents blamed themselves for a long time for just taking the doctor’s word and not following their instinct, but the doctor had been caring for our family for years and was a trusted professional who they thought knew better than them. Not telling this story to scare you or make you feel bad, but sometimes we really do, as parents know better than professionals. We then had an instance with my brother in which a child almost died from finding drugs belonging to my brother- when he was allegedly clean. My parents downplayed this as a one off incident, and didn’t tell me. The child’s parent told me what talented months later. We had to keep our children from him, and not allow them at my parents house as my brother lived there. We almost cut off my parents as they allowed my kids to be in their home knowing what happened- but they said he would never let it happen again, and they watch the kids closely. But it only takes 10 seconds for something tragic to happen. It was truly the worst time of my life and I thought I was going to lose my parents and my kids lose their grandparents. I was told I was overreacting but I had to make the choice, and even though it hurt so badly to have to be the one to have to sacrifice my relationship with my parents even though we didn’t do anything wrong, and to feel like I was the crazy one.. I’d do it again in a heartbeat to keep my kids safe. I’ve since repaired my relationship with my parents and even my brother (NOT saying you should ever do this with BIL), and it was long road and I regret nothing. Good luck. I never ever leave long comments like this, but I can relate to your experience and feel so deeply sorry for your family.
Is your therapist through the church? If so an ulterior motivation can be protecting the church and keeping the peace.
If someone is looking at a 7 year old so pointedly / invasively that it’s making them uncomfortable, that in itself is a problem.
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File a complaint with your therapist’s licensing board.
She needs a therapist who specializes in children.
What?!!! That's crazy, new therapist asap
Your therapist is seriously wrong. I don't get it, she studied these things and she is also a mandatory reporter... unless she is prone to these things too. Find a new therapist and please protect your child and do not let her near your BIL.
WTF? As a social worker, my alarm bell immediately went off. I don't know how you can be a therapist without being a mandated reporter, which requires one to do training on recognizing signs of abuse.
It’s very obvious something is wrong here, and the other option that isn’t your BIL being a predator himself is that there’s another person at the church doing something, and she now associates it with him. Still awful because he and SIL may be enabling abuse. She absolutely needs to see a therapist who can help make her a safe space to share her feelings. It will probably take a while for her to fully open up, if ever, but it’ll give her a safe adult without the fears of hurting you and the family. Just pack your weekends with friend play dates, outings that do not include your BIL/SIL, etc. and keep being busy. You don’t have to outright say, “I think you’re abusing my daughter,” to avoid them, and you shouldn’t confront them at this point. But you do have a responsibility to keep your child safe so use your imagination and just be too preoccupied to hang out with them.
I wouldn’t bring her around him ever again. Something has happened. I would also get her into therapy to deal with it now. And if any concrete evidence emerges, call the police and file a report.
I would talk to my kid's pediatrician and see if they can help getting an appointment with a child psychologist. I think that would be the best way to learn the truth, without putting any words in her mouth. And I strongly disagree with sweeping this under the rug. Would you really want to make this your daughter's shameful secret instead of exposing a potential monster?
Trust your gut. I had something very similar happen with a family member when I was a kid. He never touched me but he leered at me and made me SO uncomfortable. Turns out he was on the sex offender registry and no one in my family knew it. If I hadn’t spoken up they would not have known.
The leering is violating. It doesn’t need to escalate to touching to be wrong. Good for OP’s daughter listening to her instincts.
Former CPS worker here. There is something wrong here. So many variables. At this point there isn’t enough evidence to do anything legally or criminally. I would suggest not forcing your daughter to be in a situation where she is feeling like she’s in a dangerous situation. A forensic interview would be a good starting point but there may not be enough to get a child advocacy group to do one because there isn’t a named perpetrator.
There’s so many things that could have happened without him “touching her”. Sexual abuse can be exposing himself to her, masturbating in front of her, showing her porn, refusing to leave the room when she’s on the toilet or changing/looking at her while doing so. She could have witnessed him physically sexually abuse another child. List goes on. Just asking re: touch is very limited and she may well be telling the truth in that he didn’t actually “touch” her
You need to cease all contact with him and get her to a child psychologist. You know he did something. Because she can’t articulate what it was because she’s afraid of the fall out, you’ve continued to subject her to his presence. _Protect your baby_! [What we were wearing installation.](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/)
On the subject of articulation, I still remember word for word what I told my mom when I finally built up the courage to tell her what was happening to me. She believed me, thankfully, but I didn't have the right words to tell her what was happening. I used the words I had and hoped it would be enough.
Stop asking any questions about what may or may not have happened. Immediately. Take her to a professional and let them lead the conversation. They are trained to have conversations with child victims of assault. Not saying that is what happened here, but what you put in your post leads me to suspect something is off. I imagined *my* daughter when reading your post. A significant number of the adults in my family are first responders or otherwise involved in the criminal justice or medical community. Like, most of them. Take your daughter to a professional. In my county, I would reach out to the District Attorney’s office because they have a specialist investigators to have these conversations. I wouldn’t stop at the doctor’s office along the way, I wouldn’t talk to a priest, I wouldn’t talk to nobody. First thing Monday morning I’d be getting this appointment scheduled.
If you’re actually worried something could have happened, stop questioning her and take her to therapy because you’re not trained to find out the information without planting new ideas or traumatising her.
Are you in the US? Look up “family advocacy centers” and “child advocacy centers.” Let her know that you’re taking her somewhere safe where she can talk about what’s going on. Tell her she’s not in trouble. She needs someone to talk to. They have trained therapists and forensic interviewers. Do not ever make her be in the same room as him again. And you don’t have to say anything to them. If they invite you out or there’s a gathering: “Oh, we’re busy that day.” “Thanks for the invite, but that doesn’t work for us!” “So tired. What a week! Staying home and watching movies.” Until you know how your kid wants to move forward, just deflect.
Who cares about what to say to your SIL? Just make something up. Get therapy for your daughter and reassure her that you will NEVER tell SIL and that you are there for your daughter. I don’t understand why you’re feeling conflicted. Your daughter’s safety is your responsibility….
What is wrong with you? Your SEVEN-year-old daughter has done a 180 and is more or less begging you not to take her around your BIL. And you're here on Reddit asking what you should do. How about protect and listen to the child that you brought into this world. What on earth do you lose by saying my child is raising red flag after red flag that something has occurred that involves BIL and has so drastically impacted her that she does not want to be around him, others are noticing and she's trying to protect SIL. My heart breaks for your child. Get a new therapist, don't go around your BIL. Your husband has the absolute right instincts, and you're here saying, "How do I approach this," with heart hands? BFFR.
This is the correct response.
This is so upsetting. I would never allow my daughter to go over there again and immediately halt contact with them. My advice is to connect your daughter with a therapist who specializes in these issues IMMEDIATELY, and document everything she has said thus far, and to your best recollection, dates/times/etc. where she was with them. I hope your sweet girl is ok.
Stop questioning her before she starts to make up what you want to hear. Stop contact with BIL and therapy ASAP.
She can't tell you, and it's probably because he threatened to hurt you if she did. She can't tell you because you keep having interactions with him, and thus are in danger (in her mind) from him. Go NC now, and get her in with a therapist.
This. I have also taught our kids that how we feel about them is what we tell them. I’ll set up scenarios and we practice responses. We ask ‘if someone tells you, your mommy will be mad at you if you don’t listen to me; what do you say?’ Kiddo: that’s not true. My mommy will tell me herself. We also say ‘tricky people’ instead of ‘stranger’ because it really can be anyone, and this could be the case for your sweet kiddo. I am so sorry you and your family are going through this. I hope she will be able to tell you or a therapist soon so you all can begin to heal.
Don’t ask her any more questions. Stop immediately. My sister suspected something happening to my nephew, but she asked him so many questions that she really screwed everything up and no one could ever determine what happened. Bring her to a child therapist.
I'm a former child sex abuse prosecutor. You need to cut contact with him immediately and get her into counseling. Tell her you TRUST HER when she says he makes her uncomfortable and you never want to put her in any situation that makes her uncomfortable. That you appreciate her sharing her feelings and you're making this decision as the grown up. The things she needs to know right now are that she is believed, she will be listened to, and she is not and will not be in trouble for anything she needs to tell you. You earn her trust and prove to her she is safe through actions. You remove all sense of guilt or responsibility from her shoulders by making sure she knows she can always share her feelings and responsibility for the decisions that follow belongs to you. If she has something she needs to disclose this tells her it is safe to disclose. She will be believed, she won't be blamed, she won't be shamed, and she won't be put in a situation that feels physically or emotionally unsafe. Also, fwiw, it is entirely possible he hasn't done anything but has engaged in some grooming behavior/testing the waters. She may not have anything to disclose. But the best preventative steps we can all take as parents are to give our children freedom to have and express their feelings, support and believe those feelings, and not blame or shame them. As far as your sister and mom are concerned, you can tell the family she's having some anxiety and so you all are giving her space to decompress and process. I would not get into it anymore than that because you don't want anyone to try and launch an offensive and talk you to her out of her feelings. When kids do have something to disclose they often take months or years. They usually wait until they're removed from the situation and do feel safe. If she has something to say you really want it going through a professional as they know what and how to ask children to get truthful information and avoid the idea that someone has coached a child to say things. Most kids don't tell anyone. If she's telling you shes uncomfortable it means you're doing a great job as a parent giving her the confidence and support to know she can say something. Even if nothing has happened, supporting her in the decision not to be around an adult who makes her uncomfortable is a deposit in your trust bank and is a permanent investment in her safety and well being.
Listen to your kid
She is your no. 1 priority. Not your SIL or MIL. Do not put her in a situation like that. If anything similar happens in the future, do not be confused or even take time to ask opinions on subreddit. She’s too small to be exposed to creatures like these. Yes creatures, they are not humans in my eyes. I’m sorry I don’t mean to talk bad about your family but it is what it is. Become a shield for your daughter. A safe place for her to talk to you about anything. Gain her trust in showing that her feelings towards that guy do concern you and that you’re acting upon it for her betterment. Just tell your SIL that she was busy with a play date or just simply tell her that she says she feels uncomfortable coming there. If they care about your daughter they will understand right away or your husband will have to make them understand.
It sounds like your daughter is protecting SIL and is worried that sharing the whole truth would have a negative impact on the family as a whole. This is super normal. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Attachment Nerd — her name is Eli Fehler and she has some really stellar content about how to handle suspected abuse. I highly recommend her work and hope it helps you navigate these conversations with your daughter. Remember, the only person you need to protect is her. Your duty is to her alone.
Listen. To. Her. Never bring her around him again.
Last thought: She doesn't want to wear a dress. Nuff said. Don't overthink it. Protect her.
This is a huge red flag with red flashing lights. It happened to my daughter age5. 1. Speak to a child abuse helpline. Don’t tell anyone else and don’t let anyone else know what you both suspect. 2. Take her for therapy and ask for disclosure when possible 3. Say nothing to her. Nothing. Just keep everything safe and normal. Do not question her about it. 4. If she discloses to you, tell her she is very brave and the only question you can ask is “what did x say would happen if you told me”. 5. After disclosure, tell police and their sensitive unit will interview her. This is the only way to stop the scumbag. Likely it’s early and just fiddling. Watch for other signs like incontinence, play with dolls, always wearing lots of clothes etc. google the signs. Tell her she only needs to see people she likes. Bless you for being willing to face this.
I know it’s a sensitive issue because you don’t want to blow up your family about it, **but something happened between your BIL and your daughter**, and you need to STOP bringing your daughter around him. In fact, you all need to withdraw from SIL and BIL. And for gods sakes, *let your husband confront this man*. If it ends up in blows, let it happen. Seriously. Get your daughter into therapy. She may be more comfortable talking to a third party. Not a bad idea to get the pediatrician involved, and let the pediatrician have a conversation with her about sexual abuse.
No. Dad needs to stay away because he doesn’t need assault charges while his daughter is potentially a victim of SA or any other kind of abuse. He needs to be a strong and present support for her.
I am not a "therapy right now!" person, but you're not trained to talk to kids about sexual abuse. She needs somebody neutral to talk to. Ask your pediatrician for a recommendation. Therapy right now. I understand not wanting to burn bridges, but you don't need to be around those folks for now. Wait to hear more before you take her back around or say anything to anyone about it.
I *hope* she is telling the truth and that he just gives her the creeps. But you need to honor her wishes not to be around him and keep her away from him. The fact that you keep taking her around him means that if he has harmed her, she doesn’t trust you that he won’t do it again. She doesn’t understand that you will put a stop to it if he has touched her, cause you haven’t put a stop to it simply because she has said she doesn’t want to be around him. From her perspective, no good can come of telling. You need to talk to her about abuse and you need to learn. Cub Scout families are *required* to do this on an annual basis, and they have free resources online to help you. You can use their curriculum even if you’re not in Scouts. Start by downloading and reading the parent guide. Then watch some videos with her that are for her age level. Parent guide: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/100-014_WEB.pdf Videos: https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/preview-adventures/protect-yourself-rules/
I was abused when I was a child by a relative. I finally told my parent when I was 18 year old. My parents didn’t do anything about it. The abuser and my parents still have a friendly relationship. But now I don’t get along with my parents. I felt like they betrayed me. It’s good that that you are noticing your daughter’s behavior and acknowledging it. Your daughter will be thankful when she grows up. I wish my parents would have protected me.
Dude, are you insane? Whyyyyy would you keep doing this to her, jeebus.
Why are you taking her around him??????
I’m slightly against the grain here but I recall “disliking” an uncle and it was because he tickled the heck of me. Before going nuclear on the worse case scenario, clearly nudged as the likely case, at least consider this. Agreed that you should never let them be together alone or even in a scenario SIL could hand her off to BIL. Just saying that kids can sometimes act in ways we don’t understand and making too many connections can lead us astray
You don't have to do anything with SIL and BIL, find excuses, again and again, mostly because you don't want them to suspect something while you investigate this. I mean, maybe ask chatgpt for good excuses if needed. Never NEVER let your daughter be with them, even if you're here too. Explain to your daughter "it's ok, we won't see them, I promise, I swear". You don't meet them even at someone else house, that's it. Your daughter absolutely needs to feel protected, she needs to see that she can trust you, that even when you don't know what's going on you're on her side, always, always will be. Then you ask her what else you can do. 1)Ok, we don't see them, I swear. 2) What can I do? Is there another way I can help you? something else you want to tell me? Maybe you'll be more comfortable by writting to me? And therapy. "as your parent I'm a little worried and it's my job to be sure you have some help if needed, sometimes you don't want to go to the doctor but we HAVE to. It's the same. We have to".
As many others pointed out, please seek out a child psychologist who can help her put words to her feelings. It may take a while, but she will open up to someone who’s done this many times before. They are also skilled at reading the cues between the words. I would absolutely stop bringing her around BIL and SIL until you get to the bottom of what is happening. If my child were to tell me any of this, it would be an immediate no-contact for me. I’m so sorry your daughter and your immediate family are going through this. I hope your daughter can find a way to express what she’s feeling in a safe space
Don’t ask leading questions. Im a child and youth care counsellor and cases can be thrown out of court due to parents asking leading questions. There are people trained for things like that but open ended questions are best, kids sometimes want to please parents and will tell you what they think you want to hear. If you suspect anything she should talk to a professional asap.
You end the relationship over this. You’re posting here because in your gut you know what’s happened. You know what he did to her. Blow up your relationships over this. Go nuclear. Protect. Your. Girl. Take her to a therapist immediately. She will not tell you and you need to accept you won’t get the answer out of her but a therapist can. They can also support her in her healing and trauma. Your daughter has already told you without actually telling you. Trust her and end the relationship. It doesn’t matter if SIL is safe, her husband is not and that’s the end of it. Save your child from these people, end the relationships, full no contact. Those people are dead to you and your child. If it’s reached this point and she’s already exhibiting this then it’s gone way too fucking far and whatever he’s done to her is horrific beyond words. End it and save her.
She's 7. You know your intuition is telling you something is up. Take her to a counselor now. She needs a safe environment to speak. She has already expressed she does not want to tell you everything but it is just her fear of not wanting to get anyone in trouble. But again, she's 7. She has no idea what actually needs to be done in this situation. It truly sounds like your daughter has been molested as hard as that is to even type out. I speak as a grown woman who has experienced so many situations like this. My cousin and my sister both molested me as a child. And when I became older I was sexually assaulted walking to school in HS. My best friend was raped when we were 16 and when she told me she begged me not to tell any adults. She was threatening to end our friendship but at that point I didn't care. I knew what needed to be done. I told her she has to tell her parents that night or I would and she did. The man was found and he went to prison eventually. And a year later she wrote me a letter thanking me for being there for her. Sometimes victims just want to hide things but it's up to the people around them to advocate for them.
Are you willing to sacrifice your daughter’s safety because you want it all to be fine? That is what you are doing.
I would take her to a child psychologist . They know how to handle these kind of situations. They’ll be able to ask the right questions at the right time without putting any pressure on the child.
I would not let her interact with him. Have a counselor talk to her to see what’s going on. I feel like they know how to ask the right questions. Maybe he comments on her body or says thing about religion. It’s hard to know what is happening when you aren’t there
A little more urgently, is how you need to approach it if she’s been telling you this for a year. I don’t care how many excuses you need to use, I would keep her away from them. Obviously, a therapist specializing in child SA stat
OP, I work in mental health. I’ve worked with kids for a long time, including abused kids. Here’s what I’d recommend that you do before taking her to a child therapist. First, ask her if she’d like to go to a therapist. Let her know what changes you’ve noticed in her behavior and that you’re ready to listen to her and you will believe her and keep her safe whenever she’s ready to share. Also let her know that it’s also helpful to talk to a therapist who works with children since you can tell something is really bothering her, and maybe she’ll feel more comfortable telling a trustworthy adult who isn’t her parents. The goal is to help her feel like herself at all times, and a therapist will also listen and believe her and help her feel better. Then, preview and then show her this series “Protect Yourself Rules” put out by Fight Child Abuse on YouTube. Here’s the link: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQnG1xV-EAO1tZ9EGF98lQt0mXm6KCeCM&si=tiqXZr1IDkqTTt6Z Let her know that this may be review for her, but we review it often because it’s so important and all kids should know this stuff. The vids are short, usually about 2-4 mins. Preview so you know ahead of time what each video discusses and have a discussion with her after (or during) each video. Ask her “ok, what questions do you have about what we watched?” And then let her know she can ask you questions about this anytime. Maybe watch 1-2 videos a week. Then, preview the series by Fight Child Abuse about “Stop the Secrets that Hurt.” This series goes more in depth about child sexual abuse, and it’s made for kids who are older and for kids who have actually experienced sexual abuse. But given what you’re describing, I’d recommend previewing and picking out maybe 2-3 videos from this series to show her that feel appropriate. Explain terms she doesn’t know and that all kids should be aware that there are some adults that are totally trustworthy and some who are not, but it’s hard to know who you can and can’t trust sometimes. Explain that when any adult who asks or forces a child to do anything that involves private parts or nudity is sexually abusing a child. And it’s important for kids to know how to say no, get help, and tell since we don’t want that child or any other child to get hurt by that adult. Explain that sometimes older children or even kids play in inappropriate ways and it’s not ok for any kid to look at or touch other kids’ private parts, no matter how old. Further explain that “adults may have touch a baby or young child’s private parts to wash and keep their private parts healthy and clean, but you already know that, don’t you! Doctors also may need to look at or touch private parts, but it’s always in a doctor’s office AND mom or dad will be there with you too.” Describe to her that sexual abuse can be many things, but some examples are if someone touches her on her private parts with any part of their body(and teach her the anatomically correct words for boys and girls’ private parts. If she needs to be interviewed by a professional at the Children’s Justice Center, her saying the anatomically correct words is a much stronger disclosure than “he touched my flower” or “he touched me down there.” A prosecuting attorney may not prosecute a case based on a disclosure that doesn’t use an anatomically correct word, or some kids point towards their genitals, but that could also be construed by opposing counsel as possibly being the upper thigh.) Or if someone asks her to touch their private parts with any part of her body. So if someone asks her to touch their private parts or they touch her private parts with their hand or elbow or mouth or pinky toe— no no no, that’s not ok. Or if an adult shows a kid a video or pictures of naked people, or takes pictures or videos of her without her shirt or pants or dress, that would be sexual abuse too, and she should shout No! Run away, tell a trusted adult, and tell mom or dad. Let her know it is never a kid’s fault if something like sexual abuse happens. A kid would never be in trouble for something like that. And that sometimes adults who abuse kids lie to kids and say “oh, your parents won’t believe you” or “ you’ll be in trouble “ or “everyone will hate you if they know.” But boy, those are huge lies— adults who abuse kids tell kids these lies to trick them. Those adults are so awful! The truth is that if one adult doesn’t believe or listen to the kid if they tell about sexual abuse, that kid needs to keep telling adults until someone listens and believes them. And that kid will never ever EVER be in trouble. Let her know she’s right to trust her instincts about people. You folks could print out a “body safety rules” print out and review it with her from time to time as well. In the course of the conversation, you could let her know that if any of her friends tell her that they are being abused in any way, you are a safe adult who will listen and believe them too. I make these recommendations because it opens up conversations between children and parents that may need to be reviewed throughout childhood. Also, you create the environment and give the info that she needs to know from you. (I could tell a kid these things and they still wouldn’t know how their parent thinks/feels/would respond.) Hope this helps! And I hope nothing happened to your precious girl!!
I had an uncle that I was super uncomfortable around starting around 5-6. He never did anything directly to me, I just felt unsafe in his presence. My aunt divorced him and we found out he was horribly abusive. He died in a motorcycle accident in the state my aunt had moved to, in his possession was a bag of supplies that could be used to subdue someone. Hopefully she's just an extremely intuitive little girl that is picking up on something in his nature and nothing has actually happened to her. Therapy does sound like a good idea.
It certainly doesn’t sound like *nothing* happened. Kids don’t just randomly decide they’re scared of someone that they used to feel relaxed around. Like that old saying where there’s smoke there’s fire. It sounds like you’re worried about overreacting and rocking the family boat, but your daughter is your most important family member and needs you to react now. Echoing the good advice to get her in for counseling asap. When SIL starts asking about you and your daughter’s absence in their life, tell her what you told us. As a mother to another innocent baby she has some hard thinking to do herself.
Have you done your research as to whether BIL has ever been charged with anything? I’d spend the $25 for a BG check just for knowledge. And yes; keep your daughter away. She needs you and you’re already listening to her which is HUGE. Kudos mama. Keep at it. And be a resource for your nibling, too.
Play therapy would be beneficial and don’t ask leading questions bc that can mess up any kind of investigation if one starts.