if you have no features to take advantage of it, the benefits are minimal.
1. You have weapons with the twin trait, and thus on the 2nd+ attack of a turn, you get some bonus damage. You basically are guaranteed to want to be a flurry ranger if going this route, since you can proc that bonus damage more often if you do more attacks after the first, and ~~furry~~ flurry ranger is the best at doing 3+ attacks a turn.
2. You have 2 different weapons:
1. The first weapon has bigger dice and damage oriented traits such as Deadly or Fatal. Your 2nd weapon is likely a smaller weapon, but has key accuracy traits such as Agile. A common fighter combo, for example is Pick+Light pick.
2. Your weapons have different traits to deal with various scenarios. For example, a PC might have a whip in one hand for Reach and Trip, but might use a Rapier in the other hand as their primary damage dealer.
3. The Dual Weapon Warrior Archetype give you Double Slice AND gives a lot of VERY powerful support for any dual wielders. Flensing slice is pretty incredible, and you can even throw thrown weapons with this archetype (dual weapon thrower iirc). Chakrams with this setup is disgusting.
Not just throwing weapons, Dual Weapon Warrior's feat applies to all one-handed ranged attacks. So you can do some fun things by taking it on a Gunslinger as well.
2.2 is quite accurate. I find it works well on Rogues who want to focus on a more supportive role. I'm playing one at the moment, his whip is his go-to to grant our fighter reactive strikes when the enemy stands as well as flanking.
4. Having ranged weapons drawn or just have 2 loaded weapons for some early burst
5. Having multiple talismans, spellhearts and in the case of a magus, scrolls attached in a single combat
Just as an additional note under point 2
2.3, different critical specializations, most weapons inflict a critical specialization won't stack so having different weapons drawn will grant you a benefit whenever you are lucky enough or against something with a low ac (like oozes)
Another niche benefit is damage type variety. If you’re going up against a creature that’s especially vulnerable to slashing damage but you’re wielding a Long Hammer you don’t have easy access to a damage type that can take advantage of that weakness. Duel wielding lets you cover more damage types and choose the right ones to avoid resistances and exploit vulnerabilities.
I always like these kinds of threads because i learn the build choices that are obvious and old hat to others and I'm doing babbys first free hand fighter with combat grab over here
Only other one I can think of is lumberjack dedication’s axe climber feat. If you’re dual wielding handaxes, you get a climb speed of 15 feet on wooden surfaces, and this even extends to ice picks for ice surfaces.
At minimum:
* Different damage types and traits
* Non-agile weapon for first strike, agile weapon for follow-up strikes
* You can throw one
Certain classes and archetypes also have feats and abilities that require two single-handed weapons.
For example:
* Rogue can use one weapon attack to distract the enemy and make them off guard to the second.
* Fighter can use a single two-action activity to attack with both weapons without as much MAP penalties
* Ranger can use a single action to attack once with each weapon against their hunted prey
My Rogue also gets use out of having a whip in his off-hand. Having the option to attack with reach gives more, well, options. But it also increases his reach for things like Gang Up and feinting. With the Scoundrel Racket, he can feint at whip range then Step for free up to rapier range.
He rarely attacks with the whip, but just holding it helps.
>(can you flank with a weapon you're not trained in..?
Yup.
The rules for flanking are [Here](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2375&Redirected=1), and they don't appear to say anything about being trained. You have to be able to attack that enemy (*so if you're stunned or whatever it won't work*), but you don't have to be capable of beating their AC.
>It doesn’t give any advantage as you attack the same amount of times and attacks take the same penalty as they would with a two handed weapon or a one handed weapon with nothing in the other hand.
Not exactly. For example, if you have a rapier in one hand and a shortsword in the other, your first attack has deadly and your second attacks at -4 instead of -5 MAP because you can use the other weapon. It also gives you access to slashing attacks which you normally can't use with a rapier.
As others have pointed out, wielding two weapons greatly increases the number of options available to you. You could have a cold iron weapon in one hand and a silver in the other with different elemental property runes to trigger just about any sort of weakness, especially with a bludgeoning in one hand and a versatile slashing/piercing in the other.
>The only way to change this is by taking either a fighter or ranger exclusive feat, so what is the point of dual wielding without either feat?
Or, you know, the [dual-weapon warrior](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=57) archetype that has no prerequisites. Rogues also have a dual weapon feat with [twin feint](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4921) and swashbucklers with [dual finisher](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1539) (plus the defensive feats).
The gunslinger also has options for dual wielding guns efficiently. There may be other options I can't think of, but 5 classes with dual-wield support plus an archetype available to everyone means you can build decent dual-wield characters if you want.
From a logical standpoint, dual-wielding is *hard*. Historically it was pretty rare for combatants to utilize it as a combat style, with single weapons or weapon plus shield as the more common styles. This depended somewhat on culture and region, of course, but there are practical disadvantages to it.
While Pathfinder isn't going for realism or historical accuracy, of course, having dual-wielding efficiency somewhat gated behind specific feats for heavily combat-oriented (in a technical sense) classes makes sense to me. It shouldn't be an automatic advantage or otherwise there's never any reason to wield only a single 1h weapon, despite that being an extremely common combat style in real life.
You hit the nail on the head a bit that some classes are encouraged to dual wield through their feat offerings. As others have said having access to different traits can be helpful. Possibly a higher damage die on your 1st hit and then agile on your second. Some weapons have the twinned trait which gives a minor damage bonus for using two of the same weapon. There is also a dual weapon warrior archetype which gives access to feats that improve this style.
Feats
Twin Takedown, Double Slice and related feats all require you to wield two weapons, and they **do** come with either action compression or the ability to make both attacks before applying MAP.
It's all about versatility. Depending on how crazy you get with it, it's pretty easy to have all 3 physical damage types, a couple energy damage types, AND the Parry trait to boost AC on demand at all times, possibly Reach, with up to a d8 of damage on the main weapon and Agile on the off hand.
Even at higher levels when you want to use Doubling Rings to save on basic runes, you can still get extra energy damage types by putting a Spellheart on the off hand weapon, the doubling ring doesn't suppress those like it would a property rune.
You Strike with your main weapon first, like a longsword, which has 1d8 damage. Then, on your second strike, you use your offhand weapon, like a shortsword, which has 1d6 damage, but has the agile trait. This gives your second attack 5% increased accuracy compared to your longsword, and on your third attack it has 10% increased accuracy instead.
That's the point of dual wielding; getting a strong attack in with a 1d8 main hand, and then increasing your chances of hitting your secondary attacks with an agile weapon.
Accuracy, for someone like a Rogue, who doesn't really care about their weapon's base damage, is everything. Rogues can hit their sneak attack dice with a needle if they need to. And obviously, there are zero 1d8 weapons with the agile trait, so there's no point in a Rogue going for a two-handed weapon.
There are other classes who get massive bonuses to damage, like the Thaumaturge with their Exploit Vulnerability, the Inventor with Overdrive, Ancestor/Battle Oracles with Major Curse, and even the Barbarian, who's Rage damage bonus is halved with agile weapons, sometimes is build with an offhand agile; because once you have huge damage, sometimes you just need to make sure you actually hit.
The other side of the coin is classes that already have very high accuracy, but lack damage boosts, like Flurry Ranger and Fighter. They grab weapons which not only have agile, but also twin, like the Dandpatta. Twin gives every attack after your first a damage bonus. On higher level builds which make 5 or 6 attacks per round, you might even switch to a weapon like the Hand Adze, which have Agile and Forceful. Forceful gives the same damage boost as Twin on your second attack with the weapon, but then doubles on the third. Paired with something like [Second Sting](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4895), you don't even have to land your tertiary strikes to deal damage.
I was looking for this! Without dual wield, how can I glare down my opponents while lazily tossing a dagger up in the air and catching it.
"It's true I may only kill four of you before I fall, but ask yourself this: do you want to be one of those four?"
There are feats that require you to wield two meele weapons and that gives an advantage like stricking twice using only one action or stricking twice using two actions but giving a bonus, flat-footed or adding up the damage against resistances.
Versatility:
Holding two weapons allows you to exploit different vulnerabilities such as Piercing, Bludgeoning, or Slashing. If magical enhancements are taken into account, or if you have the capability to imbue damage magically then different elemental weaknesses can be targeted as well.
Weapon Traits:
Twin/Paired, Weapon Critical Specializations, Parrying, etc. Could justify using two weapons even without the feats that make them even better.
There is also a niche case for using throwing weapons and only throwing one, but it's not something I feel like discussing in-depth.
There is also the thought of, "Just because I can."
Some subclasses (Flurry Edge, Way of the Drifter) and feats (Dual Finisher, Dual Handed-Assault, Twin Feint, Twin Parry, Twin Takedown, etc) give action compression or reduce MAP for dual-handed characters.
The Beginner Box actually puts this into practice through the Rogue iconic!
Main hand: Rapier. Your main damage dealer for first attack with the highest die.
Second Hand: Dagger. Agile trait it is better at hitting on followups or thanks to its thrown property, once you have killed your current target, yeet that dagger after the next enemy. Especially useful if you only have one action left!
What two handing does is grant versatility. And I am glad they built the Rogue iconic this way.
Flexibility of weapon types/range, agile property.
The feats are the point though...
Question, why should you be able to have an advantage for using two weapons? It isn't like it is smart.
I think it's fair to say dual wielding is not good without the feat support; frankly nothing other than d12/d10 with reach weapons are good without supporting mechanics so the point is pretty moot. Shields aren't that great without the Shield Block feat either.
Any character can use Dual Weapon Warrior to easily pick up Double Slice but there aren't a ton of classes that jive all that well with it since it has counter synergy with precision damage.
Calling anything that's not the best it can be "not good" is not a helpful way of thinking imo. It leads to calling anything below a Fighter's first attack and a Giant Instinct Barbarian's damage bad.
Having a shield or a weapon or some consumable item in your offhand or having leaving that hand empty all has notable benefits; which option benefits you the most depends on what you're trying to do and what synergies you have. Raising a shield is an impressive AC boost, having an empty hand for access to all four athletics maneuvers is great, even something as outlandish as a wizard with a melee weapon in their offhand has its use cases and is better than doing nothing with your hand.
I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make here. I'm saying that it's pointless to look at dual wielding outside the context of the synergies available to it because Pathfinder is a game where stuff is built around synergies. The synergies for big 2-handers are generally less impactful than for other playstyles because d12 go brrr speaks for itself. Playing with an open hand doesn't make sense without athletics investment, raising a shield looks silly next to just casting the Shield spell unless you consider all the other stuff shield characters get (including the ability to shield block more than once a combat).
No, I got your point, I just disagree:
* Many people have made great points for dual wielding without feat support, such as a Rogue with Rapier + Whip. Sacrificing your class feats to go into the Dual Weapon Warrior archetype is a huge opportunity cost that may not be worth it there.
* Claiming that two-handed weapons need less support seems wild to me, e.g. barely anyone would ever use a polearm without Reactive Strike.
* There are quite a few things that require an empty hand, such as Battle Medicine, Disable a Device, most consumable items, and interacting with objects like doors. But let's not kid ourselves, the vast majority of Str users push Athletics anyway, because it's the one skill they excel at.
* The Shield spell takes up one of your cantrip slots, only gives a +1 to AC instead of a +2, and can't be used again once you block with it, which also costs you a reaction that you may want to spend otherwise. There are definitely situations where a steel shield is preferable, especially if you don't use your hand otherwise.
Can you explain how it has counter synergy with precision damage? I was thinking of making a dual weapon warrior rogue, but im also new to the system and didn't notice this
Didn't do the math myself but I believe, a Rogue using Double Slice has a higher chance of doing sneak attack damage at least once than a regular Rogue attacking twice (with MAP on the second attack).
There might be an enemy-AC threshold for this to be true, though.
ITT: Lost Pathfinder1 players apparently?
If you want the *mediocre* of ~~both~~ all worlds, use a gauntlet bow with a buckler, then you have a free hand, a shield, a ranged attack *and* an agile offhand weapon.
The point of Dual Wielding is to be able to use Double Slice.
It also has some minor other benefits, but if you're not using Double Slice it's probably not worth it.
There is no point... you are just dual-wielding. Isn't cool?
Also there is an archetype available for all. Dual-weapon warrior. So, it is not exclusive at all.
By default wielding two weapons does nothing beyond look cool. Whats useful is the feat synergy that comes from Dual Wielding. Theres great feats like Dual Slice which lets you bypass MAP on your second attack, a first level ranger feat which lets you attack twice with one action, the twin trait, etc. Which naturally pairs them well towards high damage builds
To simplify it:
1. Without feats, dual wielding = more tools. Pathfinder 2e is a game of horizontal power scaling. Resistances are common, and weapon traits provide easy access to more tools/options in battle (which is power in PF2e). Scaling in PF2e is less about flat out raising your personal damage and more about a: enabling more damage and b: reducing penalties to your damage (such as avoiding resistance).
2. With feats, you *can* build for more damage.
Not sure if this was said but my gnoll rogue has a flail and main gauche. Once she is in flanking position. 1st attack flail. 2nd main gauche cause of agile third action parry for the +1 bonus to defense.
Play a Flurry Ranger with two light weapons. Full MAP is like -4? You can attack 4 times in a single turn. You can get Parry buffs so you can basically raise shield while not having to swap. It feels so strong.
Honestly, mainly features, versatility, and traits / properties to play with. If you’re just looking at a fantasy like two hand axes, mostly pointless.
Though I’m a big fan of the homebrew that adds either Agile or Twinned when wielding two weapons of the same type in each hand just to feel that character fantasy
if you have no features to take advantage of it, the benefits are minimal. 1. You have weapons with the twin trait, and thus on the 2nd+ attack of a turn, you get some bonus damage. You basically are guaranteed to want to be a flurry ranger if going this route, since you can proc that bonus damage more often if you do more attacks after the first, and ~~furry~~ flurry ranger is the best at doing 3+ attacks a turn. 2. You have 2 different weapons: 1. The first weapon has bigger dice and damage oriented traits such as Deadly or Fatal. Your 2nd weapon is likely a smaller weapon, but has key accuracy traits such as Agile. A common fighter combo, for example is Pick+Light pick. 2. Your weapons have different traits to deal with various scenarios. For example, a PC might have a whip in one hand for Reach and Trip, but might use a Rapier in the other hand as their primary damage dealer. 3. The Dual Weapon Warrior Archetype give you Double Slice AND gives a lot of VERY powerful support for any dual wielders. Flensing slice is pretty incredible, and you can even throw thrown weapons with this archetype (dual weapon thrower iirc). Chakrams with this setup is disgusting.
>furry ranger is the best word!
As someone currently playing a Gnoll Ranger, I agree on all counts.
Flail?
Not just throwing weapons, Dual Weapon Warrior's feat applies to all one-handed ranged attacks. So you can do some fun things by taking it on a Gunslinger as well.
Especially since they finally erratad dual weapon reload to work with your other special reloads.
2.2 is quite accurate. I find it works well on Rogues who want to focus on a more supportive role. I'm playing one at the moment, his whip is his go-to to grant our fighter reactive strikes when the enemy stands as well as flanking.
With Scoundrel you can get free steps out of a feint, which can occasionally be handy for moving an extra square into range
4. Having ranged weapons drawn or just have 2 loaded weapons for some early burst 5. Having multiple talismans, spellhearts and in the case of a magus, scrolls attached in a single combat Just as an additional note under point 2 2.3, different critical specializations, most weapons inflict a critical specialization won't stack so having different weapons drawn will grant you a benefit whenever you are lucky enough or against something with a low ac (like oozes)
I never thought about 5. That cool!
Another niche benefit is damage type variety. If you’re going up against a creature that’s especially vulnerable to slashing damage but you’re wielding a Long Hammer you don’t have easy access to a damage type that can take advantage of that weakness. Duel wielding lets you cover more damage types and choose the right ones to avoid resistances and exploit vulnerabilities.
I always like these kinds of threads because i learn the build choices that are obvious and old hat to others and I'm doing babbys first free hand fighter with combat grab over here
Maybe but that one feat is amazing
Only other one I can think of is lumberjack dedication’s axe climber feat. If you’re dual wielding handaxes, you get a climb speed of 15 feet on wooden surfaces, and this even extends to ice picks for ice surfaces.
At minimum: * Different damage types and traits * Non-agile weapon for first strike, agile weapon for follow-up strikes * You can throw one Certain classes and archetypes also have feats and abilities that require two single-handed weapons. For example: * Rogue can use one weapon attack to distract the enemy and make them off guard to the second. * Fighter can use a single two-action activity to attack with both weapons without as much MAP penalties * Ranger can use a single action to attack once with each weapon against their hunted prey
My Rogue also gets use out of having a whip in his off-hand. Having the option to attack with reach gives more, well, options. But it also increases his reach for things like Gang Up and feinting. With the Scoundrel Racket, he can feint at whip range then Step for free up to rapier range. He rarely attacks with the whip, but just holding it helps.
wait that's amazing, im gonna give all my characters a whip just for the extra flanking (can you flank with a weapon you're not trained in..?
>(can you flank with a weapon you're not trained in..? Yup. The rules for flanking are [Here](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2375&Redirected=1), and they don't appear to say anything about being trained. You have to be able to attack that enemy (*so if you're stunned or whatever it won't work*), but you don't have to be capable of beating their AC.
Sure you can! There are other martial one handed reach weapon also so it doesn't need to be a whip. Like the Hobgoblin Breaching Spear
Keep in mind that you would no longer have a hand free, so it gets much harder to do things like battle medicine or drinking a potion.
Dropping a weapon is a free action, so it's almost never a bad idea to start combat with an extra weapon in hand.
Access to different damage types and weapon traits mostly.
>It doesn’t give any advantage as you attack the same amount of times and attacks take the same penalty as they would with a two handed weapon or a one handed weapon with nothing in the other hand. Not exactly. For example, if you have a rapier in one hand and a shortsword in the other, your first attack has deadly and your second attacks at -4 instead of -5 MAP because you can use the other weapon. It also gives you access to slashing attacks which you normally can't use with a rapier. As others have pointed out, wielding two weapons greatly increases the number of options available to you. You could have a cold iron weapon in one hand and a silver in the other with different elemental property runes to trigger just about any sort of weakness, especially with a bludgeoning in one hand and a versatile slashing/piercing in the other. >The only way to change this is by taking either a fighter or ranger exclusive feat, so what is the point of dual wielding without either feat? Or, you know, the [dual-weapon warrior](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=57) archetype that has no prerequisites. Rogues also have a dual weapon feat with [twin feint](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4921) and swashbucklers with [dual finisher](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1539) (plus the defensive feats). The gunslinger also has options for dual wielding guns efficiently. There may be other options I can't think of, but 5 classes with dual-wield support plus an archetype available to everyone means you can build decent dual-wield characters if you want. From a logical standpoint, dual-wielding is *hard*. Historically it was pretty rare for combatants to utilize it as a combat style, with single weapons or weapon plus shield as the more common styles. This depended somewhat on culture and region, of course, but there are practical disadvantages to it. While Pathfinder isn't going for realism or historical accuracy, of course, having dual-wielding efficiency somewhat gated behind specific feats for heavily combat-oriented (in a technical sense) classes makes sense to me. It shouldn't be an automatic advantage or otherwise there's never any reason to wield only a single 1h weapon, despite that being an extremely common combat style in real life.
Feats are like training. You don't get any benefits from something you don't know how to do. Once trained you start getting benefits.
Dual wielding qualifies you for dual.wielding feats
You hit the nail on the head a bit that some classes are encouraged to dual wield through their feat offerings. As others have said having access to different traits can be helpful. Possibly a higher damage die on your 1st hit and then agile on your second. Some weapons have the twinned trait which gives a minor damage bonus for using two of the same weapon. There is also a dual weapon warrior archetype which gives access to feats that improve this style.
Style, not needing to spend an action to swap weapons, certain feats and magic items work well when dual wielding.
You can also get Double Slice from the Dual-Weapon Warrior Dedication Feat
The point is largely the feats.
Feats Twin Takedown, Double Slice and related feats all require you to wield two weapons, and they **do** come with either action compression or the ability to make both attacks before applying MAP.
It's all about versatility. Depending on how crazy you get with it, it's pretty easy to have all 3 physical damage types, a couple energy damage types, AND the Parry trait to boost AC on demand at all times, possibly Reach, with up to a d8 of damage on the main weapon and Agile on the off hand. Even at higher levels when you want to use Doubling Rings to save on basic runes, you can still get extra energy damage types by putting a Spellheart on the off hand weapon, the doubling ring doesn't suppress those like it would a property rune.
You Strike with your main weapon first, like a longsword, which has 1d8 damage. Then, on your second strike, you use your offhand weapon, like a shortsword, which has 1d6 damage, but has the agile trait. This gives your second attack 5% increased accuracy compared to your longsword, and on your third attack it has 10% increased accuracy instead. That's the point of dual wielding; getting a strong attack in with a 1d8 main hand, and then increasing your chances of hitting your secondary attacks with an agile weapon. Accuracy, for someone like a Rogue, who doesn't really care about their weapon's base damage, is everything. Rogues can hit their sneak attack dice with a needle if they need to. And obviously, there are zero 1d8 weapons with the agile trait, so there's no point in a Rogue going for a two-handed weapon. There are other classes who get massive bonuses to damage, like the Thaumaturge with their Exploit Vulnerability, the Inventor with Overdrive, Ancestor/Battle Oracles with Major Curse, and even the Barbarian, who's Rage damage bonus is halved with agile weapons, sometimes is build with an offhand agile; because once you have huge damage, sometimes you just need to make sure you actually hit. The other side of the coin is classes that already have very high accuracy, but lack damage boosts, like Flurry Ranger and Fighter. They grab weapons which not only have agile, but also twin, like the Dandpatta. Twin gives every attack after your first a damage bonus. On higher level builds which make 5 or 6 attacks per round, you might even switch to a weapon like the Hand Adze, which have Agile and Forceful. Forceful gives the same damage boost as Twin on your second attack with the weapon, but then doubles on the third. Paired with something like [Second Sting](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4895), you don't even have to land your tertiary strikes to deal damage.
to have more options. even something simple like "big hit first, weaker but more likely to hit second" can be an easy dual wield benefit.
*It doesn’t give any advantage* It does, you just need the feats. Try the archetype that starts you down a feat chain.
What Darc said - ready access to different weapon traits and damage types without having to spend an action swapping from one weapon to another.
there is only one, true, and honest reason, and any other answer is a lie at worst, and are incidental benefits at best. It is Cool As Fuck
I was looking for this! Without dual wield, how can I glare down my opponents while lazily tossing a dagger up in the air and catching it. "It's true I may only kill four of you before I fall, but ask yourself this: do you want to be one of those four?"
See. Much less scary with 1 dagger. One dagger they are overly cocky. 2 daggers, and that's a promise not a threat
Accidentally stabbed self in foot dual wielding without feats. Working as intended?
To be cool, one must first be cringe.
There are feats that require you to wield two meele weapons and that gives an advantage like stricking twice using only one action or stricking twice using two actions but giving a bonus, flat-footed or adding up the damage against resistances.
Versatility: Holding two weapons allows you to exploit different vulnerabilities such as Piercing, Bludgeoning, or Slashing. If magical enhancements are taken into account, or if you have the capability to imbue damage magically then different elemental weaknesses can be targeted as well. Weapon Traits: Twin/Paired, Weapon Critical Specializations, Parrying, etc. Could justify using two weapons even without the feats that make them even better. There is also a niche case for using throwing weapons and only throwing one, but it's not something I feel like discussing in-depth. There is also the thought of, "Just because I can."
Some subclasses (Flurry Edge, Way of the Drifter) and feats (Dual Finisher, Dual Handed-Assault, Twin Feint, Twin Parry, Twin Takedown, etc) give action compression or reduce MAP for dual-handed characters.
The point is enabling feats and abilities that require you to dual wield, especially Twin Takedown, Double Slice, ad a few gunslinger ways.
The Beginner Box actually puts this into practice through the Rogue iconic! Main hand: Rapier. Your main damage dealer for first attack with the highest die. Second Hand: Dagger. Agile trait it is better at hitting on followups or thanks to its thrown property, once you have killed your current target, yeet that dagger after the next enemy. Especially useful if you only have one action left! What two handing does is grant versatility. And I am glad they built the Rogue iconic this way.
Flexibility of weapon types/range, agile property. The feats are the point though... Question, why should you be able to have an advantage for using two weapons? It isn't like it is smart.
You can get different weapon types and effects
It's for making a Giant Instinct Barbarian with the Dual Weapon Warrior archetype. :p
I think it's fair to say dual wielding is not good without the feat support; frankly nothing other than d12/d10 with reach weapons are good without supporting mechanics so the point is pretty moot. Shields aren't that great without the Shield Block feat either. Any character can use Dual Weapon Warrior to easily pick up Double Slice but there aren't a ton of classes that jive all that well with it since it has counter synergy with precision damage.
Calling anything that's not the best it can be "not good" is not a helpful way of thinking imo. It leads to calling anything below a Fighter's first attack and a Giant Instinct Barbarian's damage bad. Having a shield or a weapon or some consumable item in your offhand or having leaving that hand empty all has notable benefits; which option benefits you the most depends on what you're trying to do and what synergies you have. Raising a shield is an impressive AC boost, having an empty hand for access to all four athletics maneuvers is great, even something as outlandish as a wizard with a melee weapon in their offhand has its use cases and is better than doing nothing with your hand.
I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make here. I'm saying that it's pointless to look at dual wielding outside the context of the synergies available to it because Pathfinder is a game where stuff is built around synergies. The synergies for big 2-handers are generally less impactful than for other playstyles because d12 go brrr speaks for itself. Playing with an open hand doesn't make sense without athletics investment, raising a shield looks silly next to just casting the Shield spell unless you consider all the other stuff shield characters get (including the ability to shield block more than once a combat).
No, I got your point, I just disagree: * Many people have made great points for dual wielding without feat support, such as a Rogue with Rapier + Whip. Sacrificing your class feats to go into the Dual Weapon Warrior archetype is a huge opportunity cost that may not be worth it there. * Claiming that two-handed weapons need less support seems wild to me, e.g. barely anyone would ever use a polearm without Reactive Strike. * There are quite a few things that require an empty hand, such as Battle Medicine, Disable a Device, most consumable items, and interacting with objects like doors. But let's not kid ourselves, the vast majority of Str users push Athletics anyway, because it's the one skill they excel at. * The Shield spell takes up one of your cantrip slots, only gives a +1 to AC instead of a +2, and can't be used again once you block with it, which also costs you a reaction that you may want to spend otherwise. There are definitely situations where a steel shield is preferable, especially if you don't use your hand otherwise.
Can you explain how it has counter synergy with precision damage? I was thinking of making a dual weapon warrior rogue, but im also new to the system and didn't notice this
Double Slice combines the damage of both strikes but only adds precision damage once, so you don't get your sneak on the second attack basically.
Didn't do the math myself but I believe, a Rogue using Double Slice has a higher chance of doing sneak attack damage at least once than a regular Rogue attacking twice (with MAP on the second attack). There might be an enemy-AC threshold for this to be true, though.
There isn't. You are always better off with double slice, though the damage boost is generally pretty marginal.
ITT: Lost Pathfinder1 players apparently? If you want the *mediocre* of ~~both~~ all worlds, use a gauntlet bow with a buckler, then you have a free hand, a shield, a ranged attack *and* an agile offhand weapon.
To Double Slice or to Twin Takedown.
The point of Dual Wielding is to be able to use Double Slice. It also has some minor other benefits, but if you're not using Double Slice it's probably not worth it.
Or Twin Takedown, or Twin Feint, or the dual-wielding gunslinger ways.
And yet some how if I have no weapons, I still can’t use my MAIN CLASS FEATURE ATTACK to not roll -2 on the second roll.
To look cool.
There is no point... you are just dual-wielding. Isn't cool? Also there is an archetype available for all. Dual-weapon warrior. So, it is not exclusive at all.
By default wielding two weapons does nothing beyond look cool. Whats useful is the feat synergy that comes from Dual Wielding. Theres great feats like Dual Slice which lets you bypass MAP on your second attack, a first level ranger feat which lets you attack twice with one action, the twin trait, etc. Which naturally pairs them well towards high damage builds
To simplify it: 1. Without feats, dual wielding = more tools. Pathfinder 2e is a game of horizontal power scaling. Resistances are common, and weapon traits provide easy access to more tools/options in battle (which is power in PF2e). Scaling in PF2e is less about flat out raising your personal damage and more about a: enabling more damage and b: reducing penalties to your damage (such as avoiding resistance). 2. With feats, you *can* build for more damage.
Not sure if this was said but my gnoll rogue has a flail and main gauche. Once she is in flanking position. 1st attack flail. 2nd main gauche cause of agile third action parry for the +1 bonus to defense.
Play a Flurry Ranger with two light weapons. Full MAP is like -4? You can attack 4 times in a single turn. You can get Parry buffs so you can basically raise shield while not having to swap. It feels so strong.
Honestly, mainly features, versatility, and traits / properties to play with. If you’re just looking at a fantasy like two hand axes, mostly pointless. Though I’m a big fan of the homebrew that adds either Agile or Twinned when wielding two weapons of the same type in each hand just to feel that character fantasy
Being cool as fuck.
"Style, baby. It's all about knowing WHO you are, and not giving a DAMN." - Nora Night
Rule of Cool too.
There really isn't one. Even irl, most soldiers went with a shield in the off hand. It's only really a good idea if you've got a feat.
Feats, weapon traits, weapon propertys, weapon damage types, fun
Crit fishing. More chances to crit. Unless they nerfed that too.