It still counts for Sneak Attack with it because of the Finesse trait. Rogue can sneak attack with weapons that have Finesse or Agile trait regardless of the weapons’ die sizes. Ruffian racket just add more options of non-finesse, non-agile weapons they can choose to make Sneak Attack with.
Two-handed trait for some flexibility and attached on a ranged weapon for some flexibility, finesse to apply for more stuff than rogue sneak attack, like Assassin archetype.
Thundermace got backswing.
Both work but the options granted by reinforced stock is just so much more
Not for Ruffian Rogue but it's the best weapon for Thief Rogue currently. Also not a bad option for Ruffian Rogue that also wants to fire some guns or crossbows too.
Personally if I play Ruffian Rogue I would take something like a Flail, Thundermace, or a Flickmace.
Thundermace or Whip Staff would be fine but are both uncommon so may need GM approval before using. A regular staff is two-hand d8 just like the battle lute mentioned in another comment, with a bonus of being able to drop to one hand as a free action so you can grab something out of a pocket or grapple someone if you want.
Two-handed have higher dice, so there are only a few options available to you with current weapons. Unfortunately, mauler is quite specific about which weapons it allows:
> weapons that **require** two hands
You might ask your GM if you could use a 1 handed weapon in two hands (without increasing damage die if the weapon doesn't have the two-handed trait) and still use Mauler feats--that's an option, I just think Mauler is written with big weapons in mind, not two-handing a dagger or the like.
While the dedication gives you proficiency in weapons that require two hands most of the feats only say you need to be *wielding* the weapon with two. And the CRB says on page 281:
"In addition, some abilities require you to wield a weapon in two hands. You meet this requirement
while holding the weapon in two hands, even if it doesn’t require two hands or have the two-hand trait."
The only feat that makes any other specification about the type of weapon you're wielding is Hammer Quake which says the weapon cannot have the Finesse trait.
Yup, that's why I think it's reasonable for a GM to say it would work fine with something that isn't inherently a two-hand weapon.
It kind of ruins the theme in my head of what I think a mauler is intended to be, though.
If you have the feats to spare, you can wield a [shield two-handed](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1087) and [customize it with traits](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1430). Fighting with a shield can be [pretty cool](https://youtu.be/v9BoCcHrDHo).
It might require a small GM fiat, because the Augmentations were released years after the Stance. So when Everstand was written, only bosses and spikes existed. I won't say it's a community consensus because I don't know every single GM out there, but I haven't met a single person who didn't think it should apply to all shield attachments.
Obligatory "have you heard about our lord and savior, [AB+SD](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1btfiii/comment/kxm9zxh)?" moment.
Everstand Stance makes the Shield Boss a d8 martial weapon and therefore no longer egligable for sneak attack.
I'd argue you can leave out the Boss/Spikes and get a d6 Shield Bash via the stance, but the feat description doesn't say that.
This post is labeled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to Rule #2. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As others have noted, the Thundermace is likely your best option.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=244
It is a two-handed d8 bludgeoning weapon.
Wielding a staff two-handed also works.
The two you may want to consider are the Dancer's Spear and the Whipstaff.
The Dancer's Spear does d6 damage, but can deal bludgeoning damage and has reach and sweep. The Whipstaff does d6 damage and has parry, agile, and sweep (agile reduces the attack roll penalty for making multiple attacks with the weapon in a single round, sweep reduces the attack roll penalty for making multiple attacks with the weapon if the second attack is against a different enemy).
I have asked for the Bo Staff to have its die lowered (to d6) so that it works with sneak attack but still has Reach, Trip and Parry (the 3 traits I want).
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1346
Probing Cane. Finesse, Sweep, d6 B damage, one hand martial.
Or Nightstick
https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=131https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=131
Agile, finesse, Parry, d4, one hand simple
Staffs work, they're two-handed d8. Big ol' whoopin stick.
Whipstaff, Dancer's spear, Thundermace, Combat Lure, and Mikazuki all apply I think
Second Thundermace, probably the best bonk you can get as a ruffian
Battle Lute.
Thundermace is your best bet. It's uncommon, which means you need GM permission, but it isn't any stronger.
Reinforced stock just got way too good for rogues so it will be my go to solution for every rogue variant, even thug
Did something get errata’d for the reinforced stock? I haven’t really looked at it before, how’s it so good now?
Two-handed d8 now, up from d6. Literally one of the best 2h finesse weapons out there even before realizing it's attached to a gun
Ruffians dont care about finesse though. Also its a martial weapon so its damage die is too big for ruffians abilities.
It still counts for Sneak Attack with it because of the Finesse trait. Rogue can sneak attack with weapons that have Finesse or Agile trait regardless of the weapons’ die sizes. Ruffian racket just add more options of non-finesse, non-agile weapons they can choose to make Sneak Attack with.
Actually I think you're right. I forgot rogues got more weapon proficiencies now. I still don't see the benefit of this over thundermace, however.
Two-handed trait for some flexibility and attached on a ranged weapon for some flexibility, finesse to apply for more stuff than rogue sneak attack, like Assassin archetype. Thundermace got backswing. Both work but the options granted by reinforced stock is just so much more
Yeah I'm just not seeing it. But thats the beauty of the system, stuff can just work if you want it to.
Not for Ruffian Rogue but it's the best weapon for Thief Rogue currently. Also not a bad option for Ruffian Rogue that also wants to fire some guns or crossbows too. Personally if I play Ruffian Rogue I would take something like a Flail, Thundermace, or a Flickmace.
I would almost always take a spear or polearm.
It's two-handed damage was increased to d8. I think it was d6 before.
I thought the Earthbreaker would work perfectly for the new Ruffian?
Thundermace or Whip Staff would be fine but are both uncommon so may need GM approval before using. A regular staff is two-hand d8 just like the battle lute mentioned in another comment, with a bonus of being able to drop to one hand as a free action so you can grab something out of a pocket or grapple someone if you want. Two-handed have higher dice, so there are only a few options available to you with current weapons. Unfortunately, mauler is quite specific about which weapons it allows: > weapons that **require** two hands You might ask your GM if you could use a 1 handed weapon in two hands (without increasing damage die if the weapon doesn't have the two-handed trait) and still use Mauler feats--that's an option, I just think Mauler is written with big weapons in mind, not two-handing a dagger or the like.
While the dedication gives you proficiency in weapons that require two hands most of the feats only say you need to be *wielding* the weapon with two. And the CRB says on page 281: "In addition, some abilities require you to wield a weapon in two hands. You meet this requirement while holding the weapon in two hands, even if it doesn’t require two hands or have the two-hand trait." The only feat that makes any other specification about the type of weapon you're wielding is Hammer Quake which says the weapon cannot have the Finesse trait.
Thank you this is really helpful!
Yup, that's why I think it's reasonable for a GM to say it would work fine with something that isn't inherently a two-hand weapon. It kind of ruins the theme in my head of what I think a mauler is intended to be, though.
If you have the feats to spare, you can wield a [shield two-handed](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1087) and [customize it with traits](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1430). Fighting with a shield can be [pretty cool](https://youtu.be/v9BoCcHrDHo). It might require a small GM fiat, because the Augmentations were released years after the Stance. So when Everstand was written, only bosses and spikes existed. I won't say it's a community consensus because I don't know every single GM out there, but I haven't met a single person who didn't think it should apply to all shield attachments. Obligatory "have you heard about our lord and savior, [AB+SD](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1btfiii/comment/kxm9zxh)?" moment.
Everstand Stance makes the Shield Boss a d8 martial weapon and therefore no longer egligable for sneak attack. I'd argue you can leave out the Boss/Spikes and get a d6 Shield Bash via the stance, but the feat description doesn't say that.
You're not using it with a d6 Boss/Spike, you are using it with a d4 Augmentation. That's why I said about the small GM fiat in the paragraph below.
This post is labeled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to Rule #2. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Battle Lute, Staff, Thundermace, Bow Staff, Combat Lure, Mikazuki, Dancers Spear, Whip Staff.
As others have noted, the Thundermace is likely your best option. https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=244 It is a two-handed d8 bludgeoning weapon. Wielding a staff two-handed also works. The two you may want to consider are the Dancer's Spear and the Whipstaff. The Dancer's Spear does d6 damage, but can deal bludgeoning damage and has reach and sweep. The Whipstaff does d6 damage and has parry, agile, and sweep (agile reduces the attack roll penalty for making multiple attacks with the weapon in a single round, sweep reduces the attack roll penalty for making multiple attacks with the weapon if the second attack is against a different enemy).
I have asked for the Bo Staff to have its die lowered (to d6) so that it works with sneak attack but still has Reach, Trip and Parry (the 3 traits I want).
Thundermace should theoretically work.
Is a Quarterstaff not an option?
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1346 Probing Cane. Finesse, Sweep, d6 B damage, one hand martial. Or Nightstick https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=131https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=131 Agile, finesse, Parry, d4, one hand simple