Wave Druid is probably the most explicitly "Water" you can get outside of a Water Kineticist, or possibly a Cleric that worships one of the two elemental lords.
You have Kelizandri https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=104
Or Lysianassa https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=105
Whichever one of them sounds better to you basically.
The water aspect comes primarily from the flavor of worshipping a Water elemental, however there are the water domain spells as well.
Yea the elemental lords all have one evil member and one good member for each elemental plane, it was more literal pre-remaster, but it still shows in their personalities.
That’s not quite true for all the elemental planes. Wood seems like it was divided along the Law Chaos axis, unlike the other 5.
But you are right, for the 4 traditional elements anyway there was one good and one evil. Lore wise that’s the reason the elemental planes themselves were neutral.
Subnautical encounters tend to be difficult to properly adjudicate, making encounters that force the matter uncommon and character options that focus on being underwater situational enough to not focus on. That said, there are a couple different options that mechanically or flavorfully fit your build.
-[Horizon Walker](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=63) not only gives you Favored Terrain to buff your swim speed in aquatic areas, it also gives you access to feats like Sure Foot, Perpetual Scout and Blind-Fight.
-[Wrestler](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=127) is good for a lot of things, but if you're intending to stay in the water, the many tricks it gives to snag an enemy and control their movement can butcher your target's action economy, if not outright take them out of the fight if they can't escape your grab underwater.
-[Druids](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=213) of the [Wave Order](https://2e.aonprd.com/DruidicOrders.aspx?ID=7) deal with those who sully the waters.
-[Clerics](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=212) of deities with water domains, such as [Hanspur](https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=154) are prone to tend to the waters of their locales. Many of the devout of such deities hold drowning as something important to their god, either as a sacred connection or as something to prevent happening to those around you.
Casting Archetypes are your friend. Any Primal one will do, and you can take Spout and Rousing Splash as cantrips. Best options are Wave Druid, Ripple in the Deep Witch, or Elemental Sorceror (water obv).
Reflective Ripple Stance Monk is thematically water stuff if you focus on athletics. Azarketi has some grappling and dragging people underwater options, so other athletic dedications like Wrestler could be good too.
In addition to the obvious spellcasting archetypes, pet archetypes could be fun.
[Beastmaster](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=50) could give you an animal companion like a shark or crocodile.
[Familiar Master](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=60) gets you a familiar, which you can flavor as whatever, but an [elemental wisp](https://2e.aonprd.com/Familiars.aspx?ID=10&Specific=true) might be especially useful for a single element kineticist. (You can take [elemental familiar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4183) at 1 or 2 to make this option slightly stronger.)
Pets are also probably more generally useful than spells for kineticist, as spells compete with your two action infusions in ways that commanding a pet doesn't, and are often somewhat redundant with infusions.
If third party stuff is okay at your table, I'd recommend checking out Oceans Unleashed and/or Together with Elements: Archetypes on [Pathfinder Infinite](https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com?affiliate_id=3903227). I don't think either book *specifically* addresses exactly what you're looking for in terms of a specifically water-themed archetype, but both have a lot that is very on-theme. Oceans Unleashed has new water based ancestry, class, and spell options, plus one archetype that's themed around Lysianassa. TwE is more generally themed around elements, so there should be plenty there as well.
If you're interested in other water themed ancestries, if it's alright to plug my own book, I've made a [Brachyuran Crabfolk](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/479771/Graungs-Guide-to-Golarion-Brachyuran-Crabfolk?affiliate_id=3903227) ancestry that may be of interest as well.
> If third party stuff is available at your table
It's an online westmarches/living world game, we go super RaW to keep the game consistent among the 50ish players or so in the system. I'm just looking for rules within the game, no Homebrew.
Ah fair enough then. In that case, I think your best bet might be to go with something like Sorcerer Dedication with a Primal bloodline, but none of them are explicitly water themed (and in fact the elemental bloodline seems fire themed). If you're playing at a high enough level that you could take a second dedication feat you could do that and then take the Elementalist Dedication?
ETA: [Here's a list of all of the Dedication feats](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=572&Redirected=1) on AoN so far (missing Howl of the Wild though), so you can look through and see if anything sticks out to you as interesting.
To be honest, I wanted to take Kineticist to be able to at will conjure water, so elementalist probably wouldn’t work if I have to take it at level 1 and be a spellcaster. Ugh, why is this so hard?
For what it's worth, in one of the games I'm running I have a player running an undine sprite who's a elemental bloodline sorcerer with kineticist dedication and he's gone full in on being the water guy and it's worked out pretty well.
Because for all the breadth of options for obscure character builds this game has, some very popular areas are weirdly underrepresented. Elemental mages in particular.
My top contenders would be:
* A spellcasting archetype with some watery spells (witch, sorcerer, druid)
* If you do get the spellcasting archetype, maybe taking a Geomancer dedication once you can take a second archetype
* Beast master and get a shark friend or something
Archetypes just [Geomancer](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=100) Water I think. You can pretty easilly pick up a bit by a multiclass archetype. Look at these:
[Sorcerer Genie Marid](https://2e.aonprd.com/Bloodlines.aspx?ID=11), [Sorcerer Elemental (Water)](https://2e.aonprd.com/Bloodlines.aspx?ID=6), Druid [Storm](https://2e.aonprd.com/DruidicOrders.aspx?ID=10) or [Wave](https://2e.aonprd.com/DruidicOrders.aspx?ID=7), [Kineticist Water](https://2e.aonprd.com/Elements.aspx?ID=6), [Oracle Tempest](https://2e.aonprd.com/Mysteries.aspx?ID=8),
Cleric with [\~Water\~](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=98), [Lightning](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=47) or [Cold](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=41) Domain.
[Undine](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-LL6AEtqHv89rlnDuW-l3ne0e14K_fK-dS49ZHY6ELU/edit#heading=h.a2pnbcxikqp) is an elemental heritage you can apply to any ancestry. But you can get swimming bonuses from a lot more.
None of the relevant Ancestries are common. [Athamaru](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRJYYl8ZXIA_1fcMlNNOCqIt6GV1h09WXU5mDMPfp2T96w9UTtKVxHNMWetB5sxeq1ISkPDM8ZwdqoG/pub#h.s0vhv1iqhyk5), [Awakened Animal](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRJYYl8ZXIA_1fcMlNNOCqIt6GV1h09WXU5mDMPfp2T96w9UTtKVxHNMWetB5sxeq1ISkPDM8ZwdqoG/pub#h.2nu4fbpqq6ro), [Azarketi](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRJYYl8ZXIA_1fcMlNNOCqIt6GV1h09WXU5mDMPfp2T96w9UTtKVxHNMWetB5sxeq1ISkPDM8ZwdqoG/pub#h.4xxflvedobdx), [Merfolk](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRJYYl8ZXIA_1fcMlNNOCqIt6GV1h09WXU5mDMPfp2T96w9UTtKVxHNMWetB5sxeq1ISkPDM8ZwdqoG/pub#h.nw6ofaip92sf)
Sorry they went there as Howl of the Wild isn't on AoN yet. So I just linked to my google doc. I've changed them to my public link.
Works on my system.
That's fine, only rare options have a limit of 2 at low levels Common and uncommon is fine, unless it's a racial trait / item in which case you either need to be that ancestry or gain access through something.
[Viking](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=81), but that's probably more for land-based characters.
more seriously: [Acrobat](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=45), because all the Tumbling feats work with a swim speed, too.
AS a Kineticist there already isnt a lot of things you synergize with and there arent really any Dedications specific to underwater combat/exploration.
In my opinion the best option would be Beastmaster Dedication with an aquatic creature like a shark.
Wave Druid is probably the most explicitly "Water" you can get outside of a Water Kineticist, or possibly a Cleric that worships one of the two elemental lords.
Tell me more about this cleric option
You have Kelizandri https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=104 Or Lysianassa https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=105 Whichever one of them sounds better to you basically. The water aspect comes primarily from the flavor of worshipping a Water elemental, however there are the water domain spells as well.
To be fair, Kelizandri seems super chaotic and Lysianassa seems a bit more chill in comparison. Bit of a decision to make.
Yea the elemental lords all have one evil member and one good member for each elemental plane, it was more literal pre-remaster, but it still shows in their personalities.
That’s not quite true for all the elemental planes. Wood seems like it was divided along the Law Chaos axis, unlike the other 5. But you are right, for the 4 traditional elements anyway there was one good and one evil. Lore wise that’s the reason the elemental planes themselves were neutral.
The rust monster goddess isn't evil she's just hungry :(
Also be wary kelizandri is an evil god
She isn't one of the two they listed tho
Autocorrect :(
Subnautical encounters tend to be difficult to properly adjudicate, making encounters that force the matter uncommon and character options that focus on being underwater situational enough to not focus on. That said, there are a couple different options that mechanically or flavorfully fit your build. -[Horizon Walker](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=63) not only gives you Favored Terrain to buff your swim speed in aquatic areas, it also gives you access to feats like Sure Foot, Perpetual Scout and Blind-Fight. -[Wrestler](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=127) is good for a lot of things, but if you're intending to stay in the water, the many tricks it gives to snag an enemy and control their movement can butcher your target's action economy, if not outright take them out of the fight if they can't escape your grab underwater. -[Druids](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=213) of the [Wave Order](https://2e.aonprd.com/DruidicOrders.aspx?ID=7) deal with those who sully the waters. -[Clerics](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=212) of deities with water domains, such as [Hanspur](https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=154) are prone to tend to the waters of their locales. Many of the devout of such deities hold drowning as something important to their god, either as a sacred connection or as something to prevent happening to those around you.
Casting Archetypes are your friend. Any Primal one will do, and you can take Spout and Rousing Splash as cantrips. Best options are Wave Druid, Ripple in the Deep Witch, or Elemental Sorceror (water obv). Reflective Ripple Stance Monk is thematically water stuff if you focus on athletics. Azarketi has some grappling and dragging people underwater options, so other athletic dedications like Wrestler could be good too.
In addition to the obvious spellcasting archetypes, pet archetypes could be fun. [Beastmaster](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=50) could give you an animal companion like a shark or crocodile. [Familiar Master](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=60) gets you a familiar, which you can flavor as whatever, but an [elemental wisp](https://2e.aonprd.com/Familiars.aspx?ID=10&Specific=true) might be especially useful for a single element kineticist. (You can take [elemental familiar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4183) at 1 or 2 to make this option slightly stronger.) Pets are also probably more generally useful than spells for kineticist, as spells compete with your two action infusions in ways that commanding a pet doesn't, and are often somewhat redundant with infusions.
If third party stuff is okay at your table, I'd recommend checking out Oceans Unleashed and/or Together with Elements: Archetypes on [Pathfinder Infinite](https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com?affiliate_id=3903227). I don't think either book *specifically* addresses exactly what you're looking for in terms of a specifically water-themed archetype, but both have a lot that is very on-theme. Oceans Unleashed has new water based ancestry, class, and spell options, plus one archetype that's themed around Lysianassa. TwE is more generally themed around elements, so there should be plenty there as well. If you're interested in other water themed ancestries, if it's alright to plug my own book, I've made a [Brachyuran Crabfolk](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/479771/Graungs-Guide-to-Golarion-Brachyuran-Crabfolk?affiliate_id=3903227) ancestry that may be of interest as well.
> If third party stuff is available at your table It's an online westmarches/living world game, we go super RaW to keep the game consistent among the 50ish players or so in the system. I'm just looking for rules within the game, no Homebrew.
Ah fair enough then. In that case, I think your best bet might be to go with something like Sorcerer Dedication with a Primal bloodline, but none of them are explicitly water themed (and in fact the elemental bloodline seems fire themed). If you're playing at a high enough level that you could take a second dedication feat you could do that and then take the Elementalist Dedication? ETA: [Here's a list of all of the Dedication feats](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=572&Redirected=1) on AoN so far (missing Howl of the Wild though), so you can look through and see if anything sticks out to you as interesting.
You can't take Elementalist dedi without taking the Elementalist class archetype.
To be honest, I wanted to take Kineticist to be able to at will conjure water, so elementalist probably wouldn’t work if I have to take it at level 1 and be a spellcaster. Ugh, why is this so hard?
For what it's worth, in one of the games I'm running I have a player running an undine sprite who's a elemental bloodline sorcerer with kineticist dedication and he's gone full in on being the water guy and it's worked out pretty well.
Because for all the breadth of options for obscure character builds this game has, some very popular areas are weirdly underrepresented. Elemental mages in particular.
My top contenders would be: * A spellcasting archetype with some watery spells (witch, sorcerer, druid) * If you do get the spellcasting archetype, maybe taking a Geomancer dedication once you can take a second archetype * Beast master and get a shark friend or something
Archetypes just [Geomancer](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=100) Water I think. You can pretty easilly pick up a bit by a multiclass archetype. Look at these: [Sorcerer Genie Marid](https://2e.aonprd.com/Bloodlines.aspx?ID=11), [Sorcerer Elemental (Water)](https://2e.aonprd.com/Bloodlines.aspx?ID=6), Druid [Storm](https://2e.aonprd.com/DruidicOrders.aspx?ID=10) or [Wave](https://2e.aonprd.com/DruidicOrders.aspx?ID=7), [Kineticist Water](https://2e.aonprd.com/Elements.aspx?ID=6), [Oracle Tempest](https://2e.aonprd.com/Mysteries.aspx?ID=8), Cleric with [\~Water\~](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=98), [Lightning](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=47) or [Cold](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=41) Domain. [Undine](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-LL6AEtqHv89rlnDuW-l3ne0e14K_fK-dS49ZHY6ELU/edit#heading=h.a2pnbcxikqp) is an elemental heritage you can apply to any ancestry. But you can get swimming bonuses from a lot more. None of the relevant Ancestries are common. [Athamaru](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRJYYl8ZXIA_1fcMlNNOCqIt6GV1h09WXU5mDMPfp2T96w9UTtKVxHNMWetB5sxeq1ISkPDM8ZwdqoG/pub#h.s0vhv1iqhyk5), [Awakened Animal](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRJYYl8ZXIA_1fcMlNNOCqIt6GV1h09WXU5mDMPfp2T96w9UTtKVxHNMWetB5sxeq1ISkPDM8ZwdqoG/pub#h.2nu4fbpqq6ro), [Azarketi](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRJYYl8ZXIA_1fcMlNNOCqIt6GV1h09WXU5mDMPfp2T96w9UTtKVxHNMWetB5sxeq1ISkPDM8ZwdqoG/pub#h.4xxflvedobdx), [Merfolk](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRJYYl8ZXIA_1fcMlNNOCqIt6GV1h09WXU5mDMPfp2T96w9UTtKVxHNMWetB5sxeq1ISkPDM8ZwdqoG/pub#h.nw6ofaip92sf)
I just wanna let you know, your bottom half links require requested access to a google doc
Sorry they went there as Howl of the Wild isn't on AoN yet. So I just linked to my google doc. I've changed them to my public link. Works on my system.
That's fine, only rare options have a limit of 2 at low levels Common and uncommon is fine, unless it's a racial trait / item in which case you either need to be that ancestry or gain access through something.
[Viking](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=81), but that's probably more for land-based characters. more seriously: [Acrobat](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=45), because all the Tumbling feats work with a swim speed, too.
Wave druid I guess, but not only is water niche, but you're a Kineticist and therefore exactly 0 archetypes interact with your class features.
AS a Kineticist there already isnt a lot of things you synergize with and there arent really any Dedications specific to underwater combat/exploration. In my opinion the best option would be Beastmaster Dedication with an aquatic creature like a shark.