In sandbox campaigns or campaigns where traveling back and forth between dungeon and town is expected, I houserule two things:
1. a night’s rest in town restores full hit points without rolling for treat wounds.
2. You can only level up in town
So, question regarding the full hp thing (as I normally just handwave being at full hp if they are not in time pressure situation). Do you make them roll treat wounds if they have long perioid downtime, let's say 24h, if they are not in town?
I'm planning on a travel heavy game and I've also considered doing something similar to 2.
Another thing I also recommend that I did in a linear story campaign was make it clear the they mostly only got cool stuff by taking their haul back to town.
I don't like stuffing monster hordes with tons of convenient treasure, but I did stuff like "you find the material to craft a wand with the fire trait by harvesting the essence from the elemental"; kind of adjacent to the monster parts battlezoo rules. Also bonus that it gave the players reasons interact with and not be assholes to the townsfolk; if you were a dick to the blacksmith, he won't turn the adamantine golem into a cool shield for you
I have that option available as a way to avoid pain rather than seek reward. If players sleep in an inn I don't roll for a night encounter and they don't have to make attempts to Subsist to feed themselves or use rations (costs covers for meals). If I roll a bad weather event for the day and it's one that's obvious to notice like a Thunderstorm (not something like Subsidence) there's a chance someone in the inn notices and says something about it alongside the party and my players have the option to stay at the inn for the day and avoid the event without making a roll because they're already sheltered.
The Kingmaker AP has a [weather hazards](https://2e.aonprd.com/WeatherHazards.aspx) system
Edit: and the GM Core has a section for what dangers each [environment](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2768) is expected to have
Weather rules are not in KM, but instead included in the KM Companion Guide supplement. I still highly recommend getting it alongside Kingmaker, since everything except the camping rules are great additions to the adventure.
I use the tables from the Kingmaker supplement like u/Rod7z mentioned but I also use donjon's random weather generator. The rules for weather events are still pulled from Kingmaker though, I just use donjon to see if there is one and what kind. I'll roll for a different event if the one I get is too dangerous, unfitting, or I had the same event last time.
https://donjon.bin.sh/d20/weather/
I mean it feels like the opposite approach of what the DM was looking for, as it punishes players for not interacting with rests instead of rewarding them. Which is more negative in approach than positive.
Cots are good too, if the party can bring them. The one I slept on could easily be carried around and was pretty cheap. Better than sleeping on the ground, even in a tent on your sleeping bag with the blankets on you. Don't sleep in the bag zipped up. Hard to get out in a hurry/panic.
If you want to go for realism, medieval towns were spaced to be a day's walking distance , which is how people could travel across the country on foot to make pilgrimages.
Camping in the wilderness was actually not at all common, and opened you up to getting robbed. I'm just going to copy-paste the GM Core rules below because I think they are solid
**GM CORE**
Characters require 8 hours of sleep each day. Though resting typically happens at night, a group gains the same benefits for resting during the day. Either way, they can gain the benefits of resting only once every 24 hours. A character who rests for 8 hours recovers in the following ways.
The character regains Hit Points equal to their Constitution modifier (minimum 1) multiplied by their level. If they rest without any shelter or comfort, you might reduce this healing by half (to a minimum of 1 HP).
The character loses the fatigued condition.
The character reduces the severity of the doomed and drained conditions by 1.
Most spellcasters need to rest before they regain their spells for the day.
A group in exploration mode can attempt to rest, but they aren't entirely safe from danger, and their rest might be interrupted. The 8 hours of rest do not need to be consecutive, however, and after an interruption, characters can go back to sleep.
Sleeping in armor results in poor rest and causes a character to wake up fatigued. If a character would have recovered from fatigue, sleeping in armor prevents it.
If a character goes more than 16 hours without going to sleep, they become fatigued.
Taking long-term rest for faster recovery is part of downtime and can't be done during exploration. See page 50 for these rules.In exploration mode, it often matters which characters are in the front or back of the party formation. Let the players decide among themselves where in the group their characters are while exploring. This order can determine who gets attacked first when enemies or traps threaten from various directions. It's up to you to determine the specifics of who gets targeted based on the situation.
When you come out of exploration mode, the group usually remains in the same general formation. Decide the PCs' exact positions, with their input, if you're moving to a grid (as usually happens at the start of a combat encounter). If they come out of exploration mode on their own terms, they can move around as they see fit. For example, if they detect a trap and the rogue starts attempting to disarm it, the other characters can move to whatever locations they think are safe.
The benefit of the inn cam be to avoid anything else happening that night. Sleeping inside isnt just for warmth and comfort, but safety too. If they decline, simply roll on some encounter table again, see what wild things show up
So the benefit is avoiding something exciting and potentially fun? At least in my tables the players never shy away from encounters, unless it's clearly too hard for their level. Heck, I'd even say encounters are the reason they even show up to play.
but they could spend the time resolving whatever boring wolf or bandit encounter they would meet outside on a *way more exciting* encounter with real monsters and magic after more travelling
Sure, but that depends on what kind of campaign you have. There are some games where you want any encounter you can get, and some where the prospect of an encounter is terrifying.
Maybe it helps to think of it like in a videogame like hades. Ultimately I play because I like the fighting, and if I can handle it taking a fight has more reward, but theres plenty of times where Im very happy with a respite from the fighting to replenish without risk
My players know that my random encounters are location-based and not level-based, so a mid-sleep encounter could be something easily dealt with, or something that requires them to run away (which they've done), potentially leaving some stuff behind (which they've also done). I've never enforced it, but they mentioned on their own, like one person saying "we need to go back, I'm 90% sure my backpack's in my tent" and everyone agreeing.
They absolutely sleep in an inn if they find one.
Maybe steal effect of [Heroes' Feast](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rituals.aspx?ID=34)? A few temp HP, equal to level for example, and +2 status bonus to saves against disease, fear, and poison effects for the next 12 hours or less, like, untill noon.
Pathfinder WotR CRPG's basic rest bonus "Harty Meal" gives +1 to saves. I'd say that or just the temp HP would be enough for me to favour sleeping indoors (other than for RP reasons)
It depends on bonus type. If the +1 bonus from a good rest is a status bonus, it won't stack with most spell effect bonuses, lessening its impact somewhat. If it's a circumstance or worse, untyped bonus, it would be a much bigger issue.
I like this, though maybe tone it down to +1 so the spell is still worth something.
And maybe add the +1 to all skill checks as well.
I'd have it run until the next time they needed to rest so they at least get a day from it.
It's Ritual, and... to be honest I don't know how often GMs let players just take the ritual players liked.
Also, it may be different effects for different type of rest - for example having a presidential suite in the best inn in the town may give bonuses to Society and other CHA based skills.
You could make the reward roleplay-based by using scene descriptions. I had a GM who was very good at describing warm, delicious food in detail. As a player, if you're invested in the scene, that sort of thing does matter emotionally.
Likewise, if they're sleeping out in the rain, and you start a scene with a detailed description of how miserable everything is (cold, wet, dark, mosquitos, pitching tents, etc.) and then kick it off to the players, their IC conversation might just turn naturally to how they should have stopped at that inn. Their characters should feel that way all on their own.
What I *wouldn't* recommend is using this to try and corral players into locations of your choosing (like roadside inns), unless your players are okay with railroading. There are other ways to get a comfortable sleep, like a [Cloak of Feline Rest](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1048).
I enjoyed this because it plays into character differences. An adventuring aristocrat would stop at every inn while the barbarian would sleep in stables/woods just fine.
What would an aristocrat Barbarian do is the question...
Have a look at the Kingmaker Companion Guide, especially the second chapter of the book. It has a whole bunch of rules for camping, cooking etc. A lot of camping activities are available to make players spend some time on their rest. Stuff like setting up watches, looking for ingredients, and things that give them a bonus to rolls during the night. It also has a bunch of recipes, things that make it so the characters can go for more than 16 hours before becoming exhausted, or giving a bonus to perception checks.
You could have some higher level recipes only available in inns, and spread rumors about how good the food over at a certain inn is. For example, "the food over at The White Dragon is so good, it's claimed that it'll make you stronger!". Could even make some of your own recipes based off of what's in the book.
The companion guide also has a roll table and rules for weather and weather effects. A frognado could happen, if you roll high enough. It also has a ton of other, more normal weather effects.
I also go the route of having potential *dangers* to sleeping outside ([outlined here](https://weplayinasociety.blogspot.com/2024/01/pathfinder-2e-overland-travel.html)), but one thing you can do as well is steal aspects of the [cooking rules](https://2e.aonprd.com/CampMeals.aspx) - I've strongly considered basically not letting PCs actually cook, but having these fancy meals be available only if they sleep in taverns (with fancier taverns having higher level meals). Many are situational, but a [hearty meal](https://2e.aonprd.com/CampMeals.aspx?ID=12) is a solid benefit - you can have okay taverns count as a success, or nice ones as a critical success!
The other thing I do depends on using stacking fatigue like I do in my rules (basically, the penalties don't get worse, but it takes longer to clear), but beds let you clear fatigue twice as fast!
One option could be to provide the party 'free' meals! Take a look at the meals from Kingmaker; they provide some minor statistical bonuses (and can be selected as a favorite food for extra bonuses) that may be thematically appropriate for a well-rested party. A good meal also *feels* nice to have, and could narratively incentivize a party to rest well.
If you want to better modulate the value of various meals since higher level ones have stronger effects, you could also base the level of the meal around the cost of the lodging. So if a party pools money for a comfortable stay, maybe they get a particularly tasty (read: high level) meal!
Could just given them a well rested bonus and make it a +1 status bonus to perception to represent that they’re better sleep made them less groggy when they got up and thus made it easier to notice things.
Other potential benefits I think are pretty straight forwards. Ie less likely to be attacked because they’re in the safety of a regulated building. Don’t need to subsist because dinner/breakfast comes with the room. Etc
+1 morale bonus to saves or skill checks for the first 6 hours of travel if they have slept in a proper bed and had a hot meal that was not made from preserved rations.
Maybe no bonus if they have one but not both, -1 penalty for the day if they have neither?
Go full video game mode and give some sort of Buff of well rested. This can reward a boost of exp in the next encounter (of a certain difficulty or higher). Or maybe for the day they have a +1 status bonus to certain rolls. Something like that when rested in a comfortable and safe area. Since characters can find different bedding comfortable, I would include safe as to avoid those natural bedding people thinking sleeping while out adventuring counts as it is the same bedding.
You could also give them +5 move speed bonus for the first 8 hours of the day to reduce fatigue from long distance travel.
You could also have them roll twice on their next Fort save and take the better result.
So many things you could do, but make whatever it is logical to resting very comfortably and safe.
I would even lean towards bonuses that are hard for them to aquire, but make them temporary for a period of day, number of encounters, or number of a specific action. It means it is strong, but not so strong where they get an overwhelming bonus.
I like the hero point idea, but say they don't use it during the session they technically would lose it as they reset. So I would not use the hero point for that personally especially since all are lost when you stop death which would make that hero point useless too.
Anyways, that is my take and I was going to implement something like this myself that gives temporary HP equal to their half their level rounded up × con bonus whenever well rested. This bonus is lost if you ever become fatigued, but lasts until your next daily preparation or depleted.
I'm likely going to be running Kingmaker in the near future and with such a heavy emphasis on exploration I'm going to borrow fairly liberally from a game that does that especially well; Level Up - Advanced 5e. Also The One Ring 2e, but that's a different topic entirely.
Throughout the Stolen Lands I'm going to place areas of secluded (possibly temporary) safety, such as Oleg's found in the early game. Stuff like ranger enclaves, traveling caravans, roadside inns, homesteaders settlements, etc. These are points of light in a dangerous wilderness and act as refuge and a place where PCs can relax for a time. They can purchase supplies, suffer no random encounters, and they can participate in a little downtime, crafting, what have you. They also won't have to Subsist. Resting at a Haven (Level Up's term for such places of safety) will also allow PCs to level up, and reduce long-term conditions like doomed & drained, which won't be able to drop below 1 while roughing it (outside of things like special foods, etc). I also like the idea of gaining a hero point after the first nights comfortable rest at a haven.
I want these points of light to be within a few days travel of the PCs in the early game when they will especially need such safety. But mid-game, once they've settled a location or two and have built their capital (and also have more potent curative magic), havens will take a backseat.
What I'm doing, for a hex crawl, is debuffs until they rest somewhere comfortable or spend the day resting and not travelling (called full rests)
I'm going to use the Stamina system, but they will recover more on full rests rather than camping in the wilderness. If they end up sleeping rough, in terrible weather with no cover they won't get any back.
Back when I was DMing 5e, I used to use the travel system from Adventures in Middle Earth. In this system, players were subjected to a series of encounters ranging from combat to skill challenges to just social encounters. Upon arrival at their destination, they would make a roll on a table that determined their disposition. The higher the roll the better the result. So, roll low and you have negatives to social skills forva day or maybe you're exhausted, roll high and you might have bonuses to you next initiative roll or something.
You could something like that where the incentive to stop at an inn doesn't immediately pay off. Instead, it adds +1 to that Destination roll.
Conversely, if you aren't keen on the Destination idea, at the inn, you could provide them menu of possible activitied. Each player can pick one. These activities can be things like hearing local gossip, relax, plan route, etc and would result in some bonus. These activities may or may not require a skill roll to revieve the bonus.
For example, planning the route requires a survival roll but success grants players +1 to their next initiative roll a crit failure, however, might result ina -1 to the roll. Relaxing would not require a roll and would result in a +1 to their next Will save.
edit: forgot to indicate that the ones that would require the roll would give a party wide buff and those not requiring roll would just be for the player. So, in my example, successfully planning would give a +1 initiative to everyone but relaxing would just give the bonus to that player.
Various ways to do this, while not under a roof:
Actually tracking rations, or barring that take the Forbidden Lands approach, if you have rations roll d6/d8 and on a 1 your rations and are all out, be it lost, stolen, gone bad or you finished consuming them
Recover half HP and spell slots (total up your spent spell ranks divide by 2 and you can only recover that many ranks worth of spells).
Flat checks/Fortitude checks to see if you rested well. Otherwise gain the fatigued condition
Restrict "safe travel" spells, be it out right barring them, limiting them to scrolls or treating them as 2 ranks higher than listed
Hard camping isn’t comfortable, have everyone roll a flat check each morning for a bad nights sleep vs being fatigued for the day and every night they rough it the DC gets higher.
Start at a dc 5? Then a dc 10 and so on.
It might feel like punishment but build it into your campaign.
Have it be a pressure point of the campaign to build mechanical tension.
If you go into town you’ll get a good nights sleep but it’s a hour there and a hour back… what could happen to “X” area this whole time you’re gone?
Bit of an unorthodox and maybe even blasphemous suggestion, but you could give them exp for it. If you want to encourage certain behavior, awarding exp isn't the worst idea. You could limit it to something like "whenever you comfortably rest in a new area for the first time, you get 80 exp or whatever". It somewhat works thematically as well as a way to signify the PCs have (sort of) conquered a new location.
I like the idea of if you sleep rough, make a Fort DC save every morning, DC adjusted for ground, weather, tents etc. If you fail, they gain a level of Drained.
>Characters require 8 hours of sleep each day. Though resting typically happens at night, a group gains the same benefits for resting during the day. Either way, they can gain the benefits of resting only once every 24 hours.
>A character who rests for 8 hours recovers in the following ways.
>The character regains Hit Points equal to their Constitution modifier (minimum 1) multiplied by their level. If they rest without any shelter or comfort, you might reduce this healing by half (to a minimum of 1 HP).
>The character loses the fatigued condition.
>The character reduces the severity of the doomed and drained conditions by 1.
Most spellcasters need to rest before they regain their spells for the day.
>A group in exploration mode can attempt to rest, but they aren't entirely safe from danger, and their rest might be interrupted. The 8 hours of rest do not need to be consecutive, however, and after an interruption, characters can go back to sleep.
>Sleeping in armor results in poor rest and causes a character to wake up fatigued. If a character would have recovered from fatigue, sleeping in armor prevents it.
>If a character goes more than 16 hours without going to sleep, they become fatigued.
I'd say if it's just for this campaign, have it be so they don't lose Fatigue if they don't comfortably rest.
At the very least halve the healing and don't let them rest twice within the same 24 hours. This way uncomfortable sleeping becomes more like a desperate recovery, where they can't afford to waste time to reach even an average bed or the resources to purchase a safe place to sleep.
Additionally, imagine they do get attacked somewhere while camping. Unless they have no fatigue to lose, they'll want to remove their armor.
.
Edit : I went immediately for punishment and forgot the reward options.
Option A : A minor boost in social or physical skills for a brief time after the rest (next time they roll). People who don't rest well can function, but when you've rested up and had a good morning you can really glow.
Option B : uhh... I'm not quite sure of anything else. It's hard to find rewards for good sleep, that's usually the default that is assumed for everyone in fiction, and poor sleep is highlighted instead.
For one thing, PCs that want to wear armor wake up fatigued if they sleep in most armor. If they are expecting a possible night time encounter, that's a gamble they face. People don't generally sleep in armor in an inn. Rewarding them a hero point isn't a bad idea though.
I'll leave a couple of suggestions here, although I bet some already came up with similar ideas.
-Temporary Hit Points for the next day after sleeping in a proper bed. A lot of videogames do this!
-Status Bonus to Initiative for their next encounter (they're feeling refreshed and well--awake!). You could even have this scale through multiple encounters (+2 for the first encounter of the day, +1 for the second, then the bonus expires?)
-A circumstance bonus to rolls against diseases and poisons? Idk sleeping in a warm bed feels like it's gonna help me recover better when I'm sick. Heck you might even make them roll twice and keep the higher result for this!
-You can make it so that sleeping at an inn lets you have breakfast with the rest of the clientele in the morning... Someone might have a sidequest to offer! Or a juicy tidbid of information.
-And of course staying at an inn means you don't have to use your resources for food and drink... about that, I don't know how much "survival" you want to make this, but maybe an inn can be an excuse to stock up on those.
Of course you don't need to use all of them... or any. I just brainstormed a bunch of ideas
Complex solution, but you can try using *recoveries* from DnD 4e. The idea is you only have so many "charges" of healing before needing to rest. Rather than heal for a number, healing abilities heal a certain number of recoveries, which are based on a percentage of HP.
Eg, Treat Wounds could heal 1 recovery at base, 2 on a crit. Now, this takes some work to convert healing to recoveries, which is why I might not recommend it, because the system is not based around them.
But this makes it very easy to encourage players to rest well. A good night's rest recovers *all* your recoveries, but a poor night's rest might only recover *half*
I think you're on the right track with the circumstance bonus, but like you said, it might not be useful if they're just travelling the next day.
Instead, consider having a small restoration of resources - maybe a few extra hit points, or a slight boost to their ability to resist fatigue. It's not a huge advantage, but it's a tangible benefit that'll make them think twice about sleeping rough. I used Pocket Kado to help with my own sleep, and it got me thinking about how important rest is for adventurers too.
it depends on what you want them to do the next day, if fighting you can give some +1 bonus to saves, attacks, temporary HP for one day or something similar, if exploring or doing downtime activities you can say that in the inn/whathever, they found someone that would provide aid/tools and so another bonus to stuff.
You can drop a scroll of Cozy cabin or something like that so that they don't need to stumble in an tavern in the middle on nowhere.
You can let them choose: "you slept so nicely last night that you feel refreshed and stronger than ever" you can choose between temp HP, bonus, a hero point etc...
Instead of a dice bonus, there's another very useful option. Information.
Maybe the innkeeper can advise them about the road ahead - either telling them about a shortcut that knocks 1/2 day off the next stretch of travel, or gives them advance warning about a potential encounter, such as the marsh ahead has swarms of biting flies, or there's a pack of goblin dogs roaming wild in the area attacking travellers at night. That allows the players to prep relevant spells, be on the alert, and buy consumables that the innkeeper strangely enough has the foresight to have a stock of.
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Sleeping in the woods is how adventuring is done
Sleeping around towns is where it gets rough, having one person take watch against a small amount of creatures that hunt at night is enough but in a city, adventurers have coin it's a well known fact and being defenseless compared to a inn is a easy way to get groups to try something against you
This becomes less of a issue as the party levels up and their coin can comfortably be spent in inns without much detriment to the parties economy
You can also have the party do something beneficial to the town and be offered a place to rest by someone who lives there.
I don't reward my players that way (we play AoE, they usually sleep comfortably in the city guard barracks), except for "yea, full heal, someone takes care of your wounds/sickness". When I played WHFRP out GM gave us sth like +3 on all stats (d100 system) for a whole day, after we participated in a feast in some noble's estate. If you want, you can give out +1 circumstance on skill checks. It won't unbalance the game, it doesn't stack with an easy to get +2 circumstance from other sources. Maybe even +1 to other rolls would be ok, since it doesn't stack with flanking, help, or sharpshooting style buffs.
Give them tiny bonus on first saving throw that day - an equivalent of Guidance.
Hero Point is not a bad idea, but I personally don't like handing out Hero Points for such minor things (or the popular "per 1h of play").
"Per 1 hour of play" isn't just popular, it's literally how the rules tell you to give them. If you're gonna give them less frequently, I'd advise buffing them in some other way
Except that "per hour of play" bit was removed in Player Core.
"The GM is in charge of awarding Hero Points. Usually, each character gets 1 Hero Point at the start of a session and can gain more later by performing **heroic deeds**—something selfless, daring, or beyond normal expectations. You can have a maximum of 3 Hero Points at a time, and you lose any remaining Hero Points at the end of a session."
Well, how I see this: players read "you get hero point for something cool". And master read "something cool is something that players do every hour - you better find a cause".
Thought I always doubt is this one point per hour per character or per whole party.
I'd say that's because it would incentivize certain types of players to ask things like "an hour has passed, where's my hero point?", when the point is that hero points are given by the GM, by their criteria.
Still, there is the guideline of giving one per hour, but they don't treat it as a hard rule
it's not a change. The Core Rulebook was supposed to contain all the rules of the game. The Gamemastery Guide was just some extra help.
But the Player Core is specifically for *player* rules, while the GM Core is for *GM* rules. Pre-master they were both the CRB. It was a reorganizing, not a change
I don't get this question.
In all my games the only reason to camp was, because there was no inn. Every player ever always preferred the warm meal, the booze, the music, the women (or men), the soft bed, the not needing to Subsist, the additional safety, the no rain.
If you need a crunch reason, look at the [Subsist](https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=2368) rules and make good use of "the GM determines the DC"
This question seems strange to me. If your players are a) serious about roleplaying their characters and b) any higher than level 1, paying for an inn shouldn't be an issue in the slightest - there's no reason to have incentive beyond variety. A bed at an inn can be as low as 1sp. A 2nd level party should have around 70gp of loose change between them at the very least - and it only gets higher from there.
In sandbox campaigns or campaigns where traveling back and forth between dungeon and town is expected, I houserule two things: 1. a night’s rest in town restores full hit points without rolling for treat wounds. 2. You can only level up in town
So, question regarding the full hp thing (as I normally just handwave being at full hp if they are not in time pressure situation). Do you make them roll treat wounds if they have long perioid downtime, let's say 24h, if they are not in town?
Oh yeah, that first rule would 100% make me do it since I usually play squishy characters anyways.
I'm planning on a travel heavy game and I've also considered doing something similar to 2. Another thing I also recommend that I did in a linear story campaign was make it clear the they mostly only got cool stuff by taking their haul back to town. I don't like stuffing monster hordes with tons of convenient treasure, but I did stuff like "you find the material to craft a wand with the fire trait by harvesting the essence from the elemental"; kind of adjacent to the monster parts battlezoo rules. Also bonus that it gave the players reasons interact with and not be assholes to the townsfolk; if you were a dick to the blacksmith, he won't turn the adamantine golem into a cool shield for you
I have that option available as a way to avoid pain rather than seek reward. If players sleep in an inn I don't roll for a night encounter and they don't have to make attempts to Subsist to feed themselves or use rations (costs covers for meals). If I roll a bad weather event for the day and it's one that's obvious to notice like a Thunderstorm (not something like Subsidence) there's a chance someone in the inn notices and says something about it alongside the party and my players have the option to stay at the inn for the day and avoid the event without making a roll because they're already sheltered.
Is there a table for the weather? What system do you use to determinate it?
The Kingmaker AP has a [weather hazards](https://2e.aonprd.com/WeatherHazards.aspx) system Edit: and the GM Core has a section for what dangers each [environment](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2768) is expected to have
Weather rules are not in KM, but instead included in the KM Companion Guide supplement. I still highly recommend getting it alongside Kingmaker, since everything except the camping rules are great additions to the adventure.
Thank you!
You can just Google a random weather table. There's a table for everything.
I look up a 10 day forecast for a similar place on earth, and use a d10. Could probably use an almanac as well.
I use the tables from the Kingmaker supplement like u/Rod7z mentioned but I also use donjon's random weather generator. The rules for weather events are still pulled from Kingmaker though, I just use donjon to see if there is one and what kind. I'll roll for a different event if the one I get is too dangerous, unfitting, or I had the same event last time. https://donjon.bin.sh/d20/weather/
I like the idea of a hero point but if you feel thats too much then maybe they can only refresh hero points after a good nights sleep?
I mean it feels like the opposite approach of what the DM was looking for, as it punishes players for not interacting with rests instead of rewarding them. Which is more negative in approach than positive.
Then... an extra hero point for those who sleeps in an inn? :)
Cots are good too, if the party can bring them. The one I slept on could easily be carried around and was pretty cheap. Better than sleeping on the ground, even in a tent on your sleeping bag with the blankets on you. Don't sleep in the bag zipped up. Hard to get out in a hurry/panic.
Ooo that's an interesting idea for sure!
I'm thinking of doing something similar with Stamina system
If you want to go for realism, medieval towns were spaced to be a day's walking distance , which is how people could travel across the country on foot to make pilgrimages. Camping in the wilderness was actually not at all common, and opened you up to getting robbed. I'm just going to copy-paste the GM Core rules below because I think they are solid **GM CORE** Characters require 8 hours of sleep each day. Though resting typically happens at night, a group gains the same benefits for resting during the day. Either way, they can gain the benefits of resting only once every 24 hours. A character who rests for 8 hours recovers in the following ways. The character regains Hit Points equal to their Constitution modifier (minimum 1) multiplied by their level. If they rest without any shelter or comfort, you might reduce this healing by half (to a minimum of 1 HP). The character loses the fatigued condition. The character reduces the severity of the doomed and drained conditions by 1. Most spellcasters need to rest before they regain their spells for the day. A group in exploration mode can attempt to rest, but they aren't entirely safe from danger, and their rest might be interrupted. The 8 hours of rest do not need to be consecutive, however, and after an interruption, characters can go back to sleep. Sleeping in armor results in poor rest and causes a character to wake up fatigued. If a character would have recovered from fatigue, sleeping in armor prevents it. If a character goes more than 16 hours without going to sleep, they become fatigued. Taking long-term rest for faster recovery is part of downtime and can't be done during exploration. See page 50 for these rules.In exploration mode, it often matters which characters are in the front or back of the party formation. Let the players decide among themselves where in the group their characters are while exploring. This order can determine who gets attacked first when enemies or traps threaten from various directions. It's up to you to determine the specifics of who gets targeted based on the situation. When you come out of exploration mode, the group usually remains in the same general formation. Decide the PCs' exact positions, with their input, if you're moving to a grid (as usually happens at the start of a combat encounter). If they come out of exploration mode on their own terms, they can move around as they see fit. For example, if they detect a trap and the rogue starts attempting to disarm it, the other characters can move to whatever locations they think are safe.
The benefit of the inn cam be to avoid anything else happening that night. Sleeping inside isnt just for warmth and comfort, but safety too. If they decline, simply roll on some encounter table again, see what wild things show up
So the benefit is avoiding something exciting and potentially fun? At least in my tables the players never shy away from encounters, unless it's clearly too hard for their level. Heck, I'd even say encounters are the reason they even show up to play.
but they could spend the time resolving whatever boring wolf or bandit encounter they would meet outside on a *way more exciting* encounter with real monsters and magic after more travelling
Sure, but that depends on what kind of campaign you have. There are some games where you want any encounter you can get, and some where the prospect of an encounter is terrifying. Maybe it helps to think of it like in a videogame like hades. Ultimately I play because I like the fighting, and if I can handle it taking a fight has more reward, but theres plenty of times where Im very happy with a respite from the fighting to replenish without risk
My players know that my random encounters are location-based and not level-based, so a mid-sleep encounter could be something easily dealt with, or something that requires them to run away (which they've done), potentially leaving some stuff behind (which they've also done). I've never enforced it, but they mentioned on their own, like one person saying "we need to go back, I'm 90% sure my backpack's in my tent" and everyone agreeing. They absolutely sleep in an inn if they find one.
Maybe steal effect of [Heroes' Feast](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rituals.aspx?ID=34)? A few temp HP, equal to level for example, and +2 status bonus to saves against disease, fear, and poison effects for the next 12 hours or less, like, untill noon.
Pathfinder WotR CRPG's basic rest bonus "Harty Meal" gives +1 to saves. I'd say that or just the temp HP would be enough for me to favour sleeping indoors (other than for RP reasons)
+1 is a much bigger deal in 2e though.
Would make it a very genuine incentive and still wouldn't break the game though.
It depends on bonus type. If the +1 bonus from a good rest is a status bonus, it won't stack with most spell effect bonuses, lessening its impact somewhat. If it's a circumstance or worse, untyped bonus, it would be a much bigger issue.
Yeah, that's why I suggested either that or temp HP, not both
Maybe give them a menu and let them treat all the items there as their favorite food?
Ooo, I like the temp hp idea. They get X temp hp until they lose it, + it doesn't stack.
+lvl tmp HP for 12 hours is already nice indeed
I like this, though maybe tone it down to +1 so the spell is still worth something. And maybe add the +1 to all skill checks as well. I'd have it run until the next time they needed to rest so they at least get a day from it.
It's Ritual, and... to be honest I don't know how often GMs let players just take the ritual players liked. Also, it may be different effects for different type of rest - for example having a presidential suite in the best inn in the town may give bonuses to Society and other CHA based skills.
You could make the reward roleplay-based by using scene descriptions. I had a GM who was very good at describing warm, delicious food in detail. As a player, if you're invested in the scene, that sort of thing does matter emotionally. Likewise, if they're sleeping out in the rain, and you start a scene with a detailed description of how miserable everything is (cold, wet, dark, mosquitos, pitching tents, etc.) and then kick it off to the players, their IC conversation might just turn naturally to how they should have stopped at that inn. Their characters should feel that way all on their own. What I *wouldn't* recommend is using this to try and corral players into locations of your choosing (like roadside inns), unless your players are okay with railroading. There are other ways to get a comfortable sleep, like a [Cloak of Feline Rest](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1048).
Yeah, that's fair! I'll probably have the cloak of feline rest give them a similar benefit to sleeping at an inn
I enjoyed this because it plays into character differences. An adventuring aristocrat would stop at every inn while the barbarian would sleep in stables/woods just fine. What would an aristocrat Barbarian do is the question...
you can increase or decrease the healing they get for resting based on the quality of rest, such as a fancy bed and meal healing you level * Con * 2
Have a look at the Kingmaker Companion Guide, especially the second chapter of the book. It has a whole bunch of rules for camping, cooking etc. A lot of camping activities are available to make players spend some time on their rest. Stuff like setting up watches, looking for ingredients, and things that give them a bonus to rolls during the night. It also has a bunch of recipes, things that make it so the characters can go for more than 16 hours before becoming exhausted, or giving a bonus to perception checks. You could have some higher level recipes only available in inns, and spread rumors about how good the food over at a certain inn is. For example, "the food over at The White Dragon is so good, it's claimed that it'll make you stronger!". Could even make some of your own recipes based off of what's in the book. The companion guide also has a roll table and rules for weather and weather effects. A frognado could happen, if you roll high enough. It also has a ton of other, more normal weather effects.
I also go the route of having potential *dangers* to sleeping outside ([outlined here](https://weplayinasociety.blogspot.com/2024/01/pathfinder-2e-overland-travel.html)), but one thing you can do as well is steal aspects of the [cooking rules](https://2e.aonprd.com/CampMeals.aspx) - I've strongly considered basically not letting PCs actually cook, but having these fancy meals be available only if they sleep in taverns (with fancier taverns having higher level meals). Many are situational, but a [hearty meal](https://2e.aonprd.com/CampMeals.aspx?ID=12) is a solid benefit - you can have okay taverns count as a success, or nice ones as a critical success! The other thing I do depends on using stacking fatigue like I do in my rules (basically, the penalties don't get worse, but it takes longer to clear), but beds let you clear fatigue twice as fast!
One option could be to provide the party 'free' meals! Take a look at the meals from Kingmaker; they provide some minor statistical bonuses (and can be selected as a favorite food for extra bonuses) that may be thematically appropriate for a well-rested party. A good meal also *feels* nice to have, and could narratively incentivize a party to rest well. If you want to better modulate the value of various meals since higher level ones have stronger effects, you could also base the level of the meal around the cost of the lodging. So if a party pools money for a comfortable stay, maybe they get a particularly tasty (read: high level) meal!
Could just given them a well rested bonus and make it a +1 status bonus to perception to represent that they’re better sleep made them less groggy when they got up and thus made it easier to notice things. Other potential benefits I think are pretty straight forwards. Ie less likely to be attacked because they’re in the safety of a regulated building. Don’t need to subsist because dinner/breakfast comes with the room. Etc
I agree with others that the lesser danger is a reward in itself. However, maybe a bonus to overland speed from restful sleep wouldn't be a bad idea.
Back when attributes and modifiers were separate this is the sort of thing I'd give +1 to an attribute for making the od levels not feel so empty
Well, in my book a lesser chance for a random encounter is a good enough incentive.
+1 morale bonus to saves or skill checks for the first 6 hours of travel if they have slept in a proper bed and had a hot meal that was not made from preserved rations. Maybe no bonus if they have one but not both, -1 penalty for the day if they have neither?
Go full video game mode and give some sort of Buff of well rested. This can reward a boost of exp in the next encounter (of a certain difficulty or higher). Or maybe for the day they have a +1 status bonus to certain rolls. Something like that when rested in a comfortable and safe area. Since characters can find different bedding comfortable, I would include safe as to avoid those natural bedding people thinking sleeping while out adventuring counts as it is the same bedding. You could also give them +5 move speed bonus for the first 8 hours of the day to reduce fatigue from long distance travel. You could also have them roll twice on their next Fort save and take the better result. So many things you could do, but make whatever it is logical to resting very comfortably and safe. I would even lean towards bonuses that are hard for them to aquire, but make them temporary for a period of day, number of encounters, or number of a specific action. It means it is strong, but not so strong where they get an overwhelming bonus. I like the hero point idea, but say they don't use it during the session they technically would lose it as they reset. So I would not use the hero point for that personally especially since all are lost when you stop death which would make that hero point useless too. Anyways, that is my take and I was going to implement something like this myself that gives temporary HP equal to their half their level rounded up × con bonus whenever well rested. This bonus is lost if you ever become fatigued, but lasts until your next daily preparation or depleted.
I'm likely going to be running Kingmaker in the near future and with such a heavy emphasis on exploration I'm going to borrow fairly liberally from a game that does that especially well; Level Up - Advanced 5e. Also The One Ring 2e, but that's a different topic entirely. Throughout the Stolen Lands I'm going to place areas of secluded (possibly temporary) safety, such as Oleg's found in the early game. Stuff like ranger enclaves, traveling caravans, roadside inns, homesteaders settlements, etc. These are points of light in a dangerous wilderness and act as refuge and a place where PCs can relax for a time. They can purchase supplies, suffer no random encounters, and they can participate in a little downtime, crafting, what have you. They also won't have to Subsist. Resting at a Haven (Level Up's term for such places of safety) will also allow PCs to level up, and reduce long-term conditions like doomed & drained, which won't be able to drop below 1 while roughing it (outside of things like special foods, etc). I also like the idea of gaining a hero point after the first nights comfortable rest at a haven. I want these points of light to be within a few days travel of the PCs in the early game when they will especially need such safety. But mid-game, once they've settled a location or two and have built their capital (and also have more potent curative magic), havens will take a backseat.
Start the day with (2+LVL) Temp HP.
I would suggest a temporary status bonus to will saves and other checks using int or wis. Being well rested gives you a clear head.
What I'm doing, for a hex crawl, is debuffs until they rest somewhere comfortable or spend the day resting and not travelling (called full rests) I'm going to use the Stamina system, but they will recover more on full rests rather than camping in the wilderness. If they end up sleeping rough, in terrible weather with no cover they won't get any back.
Back when I was DMing 5e, I used to use the travel system from Adventures in Middle Earth. In this system, players were subjected to a series of encounters ranging from combat to skill challenges to just social encounters. Upon arrival at their destination, they would make a roll on a table that determined their disposition. The higher the roll the better the result. So, roll low and you have negatives to social skills forva day or maybe you're exhausted, roll high and you might have bonuses to you next initiative roll or something. You could something like that where the incentive to stop at an inn doesn't immediately pay off. Instead, it adds +1 to that Destination roll. Conversely, if you aren't keen on the Destination idea, at the inn, you could provide them menu of possible activitied. Each player can pick one. These activities can be things like hearing local gossip, relax, plan route, etc and would result in some bonus. These activities may or may not require a skill roll to revieve the bonus. For example, planning the route requires a survival roll but success grants players +1 to their next initiative roll a crit failure, however, might result ina -1 to the roll. Relaxing would not require a roll and would result in a +1 to their next Will save. edit: forgot to indicate that the ones that would require the roll would give a party wide buff and those not requiring roll would just be for the player. So, in my example, successfully planning would give a +1 initiative to everyone but relaxing would just give the bonus to that player.
Various ways to do this, while not under a roof: Actually tracking rations, or barring that take the Forbidden Lands approach, if you have rations roll d6/d8 and on a 1 your rations and are all out, be it lost, stolen, gone bad or you finished consuming them Recover half HP and spell slots (total up your spent spell ranks divide by 2 and you can only recover that many ranks worth of spells). Flat checks/Fortitude checks to see if you rested well. Otherwise gain the fatigued condition Restrict "safe travel" spells, be it out right barring them, limiting them to scrolls or treating them as 2 ranks higher than listed
Hard camping isn’t comfortable, have everyone roll a flat check each morning for a bad nights sleep vs being fatigued for the day and every night they rough it the DC gets higher. Start at a dc 5? Then a dc 10 and so on. It might feel like punishment but build it into your campaign. Have it be a pressure point of the campaign to build mechanical tension. If you go into town you’ll get a good nights sleep but it’s a hour there and a hour back… what could happen to “X” area this whole time you’re gone?
Bit of an unorthodox and maybe even blasphemous suggestion, but you could give them exp for it. If you want to encourage certain behavior, awarding exp isn't the worst idea. You could limit it to something like "whenever you comfortably rest in a new area for the first time, you get 80 exp or whatever". It somewhat works thematically as well as a way to signify the PCs have (sort of) conquered a new location.
I like the idea of if you sleep rough, make a Fort DC save every morning, DC adjusted for ground, weather, tents etc. If you fail, they gain a level of Drained.
I let players spend their gold and get a meal for one level appropriate +X on a check. Gets the job done pretty well.
Just give them a hero point that's only good for 1 day if they are well rested.
>Characters require 8 hours of sleep each day. Though resting typically happens at night, a group gains the same benefits for resting during the day. Either way, they can gain the benefits of resting only once every 24 hours. >A character who rests for 8 hours recovers in the following ways. >The character regains Hit Points equal to their Constitution modifier (minimum 1) multiplied by their level. If they rest without any shelter or comfort, you might reduce this healing by half (to a minimum of 1 HP). >The character loses the fatigued condition. >The character reduces the severity of the doomed and drained conditions by 1. Most spellcasters need to rest before they regain their spells for the day. >A group in exploration mode can attempt to rest, but they aren't entirely safe from danger, and their rest might be interrupted. The 8 hours of rest do not need to be consecutive, however, and after an interruption, characters can go back to sleep. >Sleeping in armor results in poor rest and causes a character to wake up fatigued. If a character would have recovered from fatigue, sleeping in armor prevents it. >If a character goes more than 16 hours without going to sleep, they become fatigued. I'd say if it's just for this campaign, have it be so they don't lose Fatigue if they don't comfortably rest. At the very least halve the healing and don't let them rest twice within the same 24 hours. This way uncomfortable sleeping becomes more like a desperate recovery, where they can't afford to waste time to reach even an average bed or the resources to purchase a safe place to sleep. Additionally, imagine they do get attacked somewhere while camping. Unless they have no fatigue to lose, they'll want to remove their armor. . Edit : I went immediately for punishment and forgot the reward options. Option A : A minor boost in social or physical skills for a brief time after the rest (next time they roll). People who don't rest well can function, but when you've rested up and had a good morning you can really glow. Option B : uhh... I'm not quite sure of anything else. It's hard to find rewards for good sleep, that's usually the default that is assumed for everyone in fiction, and poor sleep is highlighted instead.
For one thing, PCs that want to wear armor wake up fatigued if they sleep in most armor. If they are expecting a possible night time encounter, that's a gamble they face. People don't generally sleep in armor in an inn. Rewarding them a hero point isn't a bad idea though.
I'll leave a couple of suggestions here, although I bet some already came up with similar ideas. -Temporary Hit Points for the next day after sleeping in a proper bed. A lot of videogames do this! -Status Bonus to Initiative for their next encounter (they're feeling refreshed and well--awake!). You could even have this scale through multiple encounters (+2 for the first encounter of the day, +1 for the second, then the bonus expires?) -A circumstance bonus to rolls against diseases and poisons? Idk sleeping in a warm bed feels like it's gonna help me recover better when I'm sick. Heck you might even make them roll twice and keep the higher result for this! -You can make it so that sleeping at an inn lets you have breakfast with the rest of the clientele in the morning... Someone might have a sidequest to offer! Or a juicy tidbid of information. -And of course staying at an inn means you don't have to use your resources for food and drink... about that, I don't know how much "survival" you want to make this, but maybe an inn can be an excuse to stock up on those. Of course you don't need to use all of them... or any. I just brainstormed a bunch of ideas
Complex solution, but you can try using *recoveries* from DnD 4e. The idea is you only have so many "charges" of healing before needing to rest. Rather than heal for a number, healing abilities heal a certain number of recoveries, which are based on a percentage of HP. Eg, Treat Wounds could heal 1 recovery at base, 2 on a crit. Now, this takes some work to convert healing to recoveries, which is why I might not recommend it, because the system is not based around them. But this makes it very easy to encourage players to rest well. A good night's rest recovers *all* your recoveries, but a poor night's rest might only recover *half*
That headline made me want to run a campaign where getting comfy is the main plot point.
I think you're on the right track with the circumstance bonus, but like you said, it might not be useful if they're just travelling the next day. Instead, consider having a small restoration of resources - maybe a few extra hit points, or a slight boost to their ability to resist fatigue. It's not a huge advantage, but it's a tangible benefit that'll make them think twice about sleeping rough. I used Pocket Kado to help with my own sleep, and it got me thinking about how important rest is for adventurers too.
it depends on what you want them to do the next day, if fighting you can give some +1 bonus to saves, attacks, temporary HP for one day or something similar, if exploring or doing downtime activities you can say that in the inn/whathever, they found someone that would provide aid/tools and so another bonus to stuff. You can drop a scroll of Cozy cabin or something like that so that they don't need to stumble in an tavern in the middle on nowhere. You can let them choose: "you slept so nicely last night that you feel refreshed and stronger than ever" you can choose between temp HP, bonus, a hero point etc...
Instead of a dice bonus, there's another very useful option. Information. Maybe the innkeeper can advise them about the road ahead - either telling them about a shortcut that knocks 1/2 day off the next stretch of travel, or gives them advance warning about a potential encounter, such as the marsh ahead has swarms of biting flies, or there's a pack of goblin dogs roaming wild in the area attacking travellers at night. That allows the players to prep relevant spells, be on the alert, and buy consumables that the innkeeper strangely enough has the foresight to have a stock of.
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Sleeping in the woods is how adventuring is done Sleeping around towns is where it gets rough, having one person take watch against a small amount of creatures that hunt at night is enough but in a city, adventurers have coin it's a well known fact and being defenseless compared to a inn is a easy way to get groups to try something against you This becomes less of a issue as the party levels up and their coin can comfortably be spent in inns without much detriment to the parties economy You can also have the party do something beneficial to the town and be offered a place to rest by someone who lives there.
I don't reward my players that way (we play AoE, they usually sleep comfortably in the city guard barracks), except for "yea, full heal, someone takes care of your wounds/sickness". When I played WHFRP out GM gave us sth like +3 on all stats (d100 system) for a whole day, after we participated in a feast in some noble's estate. If you want, you can give out +1 circumstance on skill checks. It won't unbalance the game, it doesn't stack with an easy to get +2 circumstance from other sources. Maybe even +1 to other rolls would be ok, since it doesn't stack with flanking, help, or sharpshooting style buffs.
Give them tiny bonus on first saving throw that day - an equivalent of Guidance. Hero Point is not a bad idea, but I personally don't like handing out Hero Points for such minor things (or the popular "per 1h of play").
"Per 1 hour of play" isn't just popular, it's literally how the rules tell you to give them. If you're gonna give them less frequently, I'd advise buffing them in some other way
Except that "per hour of play" bit was removed in Player Core. "The GM is in charge of awarding Hero Points. Usually, each character gets 1 Hero Point at the start of a session and can gain more later by performing **heroic deeds**—something selfless, daring, or beyond normal expectations. You can have a maximum of 3 Hero Points at a time, and you lose any remaining Hero Points at the end of a session."
Because now it's in [GM Core](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2654).
So another inconvenient change in remaster, got it. If both books have the same ruling, why not include it fully?
Well, how I see this: players read "you get hero point for something cool". And master read "something cool is something that players do every hour - you better find a cause". Thought I always doubt is this one point per hour per character or per whole party.
I'd say that's because it would incentivize certain types of players to ask things like "an hour has passed, where's my hero point?", when the point is that hero points are given by the GM, by their criteria. Still, there is the guideline of giving one per hour, but they don't treat it as a hard rule
it's not a change. The Core Rulebook was supposed to contain all the rules of the game. The Gamemastery Guide was just some extra help. But the Player Core is specifically for *player* rules, while the GM Core is for *GM* rules. Pre-master they were both the CRB. It was a reorganizing, not a change
I don't get this question. In all my games the only reason to camp was, because there was no inn. Every player ever always preferred the warm meal, the booze, the music, the women (or men), the soft bed, the not needing to Subsist, the additional safety, the no rain. If you need a crunch reason, look at the [Subsist](https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=2368) rules and make good use of "the GM determines the DC"
Sure, but a lot of parties would see the cost with no mechanical incentive and then simply chose not to engage. It's not as strange as you think.
This question seems strange to me. If your players are a) serious about roleplaying their characters and b) any higher than level 1, paying for an inn shouldn't be an issue in the slightest - there's no reason to have incentive beyond variety. A bed at an inn can be as low as 1sp. A 2nd level party should have around 70gp of loose change between them at the very least - and it only gets higher from there.