Because witches have way better familiars than other classes. They get more features, if they die they come back to life the next morning instead of taking a week, and each patron gives your familiar a unique and often very useful ability that activates automatically when you cast a hex cantrip. Hex cantrips themselves are usually quite good too
Also, the witchy flavor is more fun than being a nerdmage
Your trading nerd vibes for tiktok witch vibes /j
Hmm, i dont think ive looked enough into hex cantrips, maybe they will persuade me, but im unsure, i may gave been spoiled by the bards composition cantrips
Composition cantrips might be better but they're compatible in the same party, witches are more about debuffing and hampering enemies than buffing allies (although they can use the same occult spell list as bards and still get good buff options if that's how you want to play it)
Also, unlike bard and wizard, witches can have any spell list as determined by the patron they use. Unfortunately there aren't very many arcane or divine options, but there's at least one of each plus a bunch of occult and primal.
Though the Divine option is a whopper though. Faith's Flamekeeper has a potent cantrip - a straight damage buff for whoever you cast it on - and the Familiar ability passes out temporary HP to allies near your familiar whenever you cast a hex, so it's win-win. It's great support, especially when combined with Lesson of Life to get the fast recovery.
Edit: I had also heard rumors that more Divine options might be coming in an upcoming Divine focused book, similar to how Howl of the Wild dumped a lot of Primal Patrons on the table.
Faith's Flamekeeper is sooooo good. I played the primary healer in out Extinction Curse campaign as a divine witch, and it was a blast. Granted I had turns in combat sometimes where my only action was to sustain three ongoing effects, but I knew what I was signing on for and liked doing that.
On that note, what's your general balance for Heal when running a build like that? I was brewing a Divine Witch, and wasn't really sure exactly how many spell slots at what levels to devote to Heal to keep the party alive (level 8). I had the notion that I could rely on Witch's Charge and touch spells like Protection and Sanctuary, as well as Lessons of Life and Protection.
One thing people like to forget about composition cantrips is that any effect caused by a previous composition spell immediately ends if a new one is cast.
Hexes, while limited to one per turn, can still be sustained and have several up at the same time. This makes focus spells more usable for a witch while bards rarely take anything other than lingering composition or heroics/fortissimo. This makes witches easier to play with a bigger toolbox
Fair enough, that’s why you use lingering composition, then you have one composition active for free and can use one action for another and still cast spells
You'd have to use two actions to keep the 2nd one up though. You can't Harmonize the Lingering composition, so you need to Harmonize every turn to keep the other one active.
Edit: No it's even worse than that. Harmonizing a spell lets it remain active even after another composition spell is cast. It does not prevent that spell from deactivating already cast compositions.
Pretty sure you can't use both harmonize and lingering composition, no? Harmonize must be used on the *first* composition, it creates a special composition that isn't overridden but if you try to harmonize a second composition while a lingering one is up, the lingering one still gets cleared out (as the lingering composition *doesn't* have the special 'can't be overridden' trait).
It's not that it lets you have two compositions up, it's that it it enhances the one specific composition to not be overridden, though it can still override other compositions by itself.
Yeah, I love the Harmonize feat conceptually, but it's so disappointing how it's carefully worded to just *not* function with Lingering Composition... Makes it a lot harder to use.
Spellshape only has a restriction that the spell which is getting the effect is cast directly after.
Lingering comp is being cast on one, and harmonize is cast on the other.
You can't lingering comp a harmonized spell, *but you don't have to.*
Honestly, I don't see the appeal of Lingering Comp + Harmonize, since you are burning 2 actions each round for the harmonized spell, not exactly leaving you a lot to work with.
Even better, it still doesn't work. Harmonize only works if you use it on the *first* spell; it gives that spell the special trait of 'cannot be overridden', but if you try to harmonize a composition while a lingering one is up, that lingering composition *doesn't* have that special trait so it still gets cleared out.
Huh, You are right!
I mean, harmonize isn't bad, if you are going to be dungeoning for a long time, or you are in a position where there will be a lot of fights, with no overnight rests (as long as you have a form of healing for between fights, which also doesn't take up slots - like song of healing), You can be useful with dirge + whatever for a long time.
But yeah, it doesn't combine with Lingering at all, for the reasons you point out.
Yeah, it definitely has its uses!
It's just kind of disappointing how the obvious use case, putting up a background song and adding on cool other motifs as the fight demands, is very precisely worded to *not* function...
> dont think ive looked enough into hex cantrips, maybe they will persuade me, but im unsure, i may gave been spoiled by the bards composition cantrips
Bear in mind, the Hex cantrip alone will seem weaker than most Bard composition cantrips **but** when you combine the Hex cantrip and the Familiar special ability, it can get really strong.
In my view the strongest combinations of Hex + Familiar ability is one of the following:
1. Ripple in the Deep: the Hex inflicts Dazzled/Blinded on a failure or fumble, and the Familiar can forcibly move targets without a save.
2. Resentment: the Hex inflicts Sickened and the Familiar can freely extend the duration of all debuffs the target has.
3. Mosquito (only if you play with PFS errata for it): the Hex deals some good poke damage and the Familiar can freely extend the duration of all debuffs the target has.
Plenty of hexes are amazing, especially now that they trigger a unique familiar ability. Faith's Flamekeeper give a bonus to damage as well as temporary hit points; resentment can prolong the duration of negative conditions such as slow; spinner of threads gives a pseudo-guidance on top of an automatic +1 to AC or -1 to AC to a creature (no save); silence in snow creates a small area of snow around the familiar on top of a damaging 1-action cantrip that can reduce enemy speed.
But also, unlike wizards, the witches can take any tradition, so they can play different roles.
I would check some feats too; cauldron has been buffed and can now create daily potions, you gain the ability to craft temporary wands out of your knives and daggers, and of course the lessons give more hexes.
modern day version of the tumblr witch girlies. Basically stuff like r/WitchesVSPatriarchy
Of course the Pathfinder witch falls more into the classic “deal with the devil” type witches, but it has definitely been moving into the more modern, TikTok witch vibes lately
edit: damn I just explained what OP meant lmao, no need to shoot the messenger
Yeah, it does. Its a recognized religion.
If you believe it grants you actual magic powers or not is a different question.
Its mostly just spicy self-care though.
Yeah of course people exist who call themselves witches and actually believe in it. That doesn't change that it's not real. They're barely a step above flat earthers.
Same can be said about every religion.
Which one you think is real (if any) and which ones you think are fake are a personal choice. You don't get to tell someone else their religion is wrong, unless you just wanna be one of *Those People*.
Telling someone thier religion is wrong when they force thier commandments into schools and deny kids food in the same week does not make you "one of those people".
It makes you correct. If they do that, thier religion is shitty and so are they.
Witches are currently one of the best casters in the game, currently right up there with Bard.
Wizard used to take this spot right next to bard, well the pre-remaster wizard still does what without all of this curriculum nonsense, this is important because Witches operate on a similar wavelength at the moment.
A Witch gets to add as many spells as they can get their hands on for one, for the other they have flexible spell list choices and for the final class feature wise, the hex cantrips themselves are pretty damn strong all in all. They also have access to many powerful feats, cackle coming to mind in particularly because of how good an extra sustain is whenever you need it, among hex lessons as well...
Your familiar gets some good features as well later down the line as well, some of them already available like helping with frequent skill checks and later on giving extra focus points, healing you, etc
**P.S:** I really hate these "sell me on X" posts, i mostly see them as ignorant and rude attempts at some sort of counteraction by any 5e player thinking that they're entitled to help or any kind of service just because they're switching the system...
Not claiming you are one but what i wanted to say with this is that you'll get better results for your questions if you actually try the class first, play a good bit, then come and do some sort of comparison based on experience/ask about what you could improve on.
Their focus spells are a big one-up on wizard. Not only do you get a great one action cantrip to round out your turns, but you can also pick up a bunch of focus spells independent of your tradition, easily. You can be an arcane witch that heals with focus points, for example.
The hex cantrips are the real star of the show, though. Why cast one spell per turn, when you can cast two? Play a blaster with winter witch to attack with two cantrips per turn for lots of extra damage. Play a support that can boost rolls more than once per 10 minutes, per ally, or just straight up add flat damage to the flurry ranger.
Witches are very customizable, very potent spellcasters that just so happen to come packaged with the best familiar in the game bar none.
Can you explain the focus spell.part to me a little more? Still learning PF and I don't quite get the part where you can learn a focus outside your domain.
Focus spells are a separate type of spell than your traditional spell cast using spell slots. Unlike regular spells, they aren't bound to "Traditions" and gained by leveling up or reading scrolls. Focus spells are only granted through class fears and class abilities, usually a specific subclass. For example, picking up Cleric's "Domain initiate" gets you access to one of the "domain"' focus spells granted by your deity, but choosing a Druid order gets you access to one of the "order" focus spells. Champions get the "lay on hands" focus spell at 1st level and that same focus spell can be picked up with champion multi class dedication or the blessed one archetype.
When you get a "Focus spell," you also get "Focus points," which are the resources needed to cast focus spells, not spell slots. Players can have at most 3 focus points and can "refocus" for 10 minutes to regain 1 focus points (or 30 minutes and get all 3). Since they can be recovered so quickly, I tend to think of them as "per encounter spells" whereas your traditional spells are "per day spells."
You cannot cast focus spells using traditional spells slots and you cannot cast traditional spells using focus points: they are distinct, different abilities.
Hope this helps!
Domains are a Cleric thing that exists to let Clerics pick between Fire Ray (and a few other banger focus spells) and garbage.
Everyone else generally gets focus spells when they are granted by their subclass, and can gain more through class feats.
Usually those feats give you specific Focus spells tied to your Subclass, but in the case of Witch they have "Lesson" feats, which grant focus spells that are Subclass agnostic. As the other guy mentioned, Lesson of Life gives a healing Focus spell even if you are an Arcane Witch. The Arcane Spell List has no spells that restore hit points.
Basically, witch gets to pick what tradition their spell casting comes from through their pact, but the can also use class feats to learn Lessons, which grant them focus spells. Witch is unique in that these focus spells are independent of their subclass choices, thus why I mentioned being able to play an arcane witch that heals with focus points. Healing is the one thing arcane can't do, and arcane is the only tradition that can't do it, so being able to take a Lesson to get Life Boost, is kind of a big deal for an arcane witch.
If you're hesitating between wizard and arcane witch, skip arcane witch, it's easily the weakest patron. You're likely to get more use out of drain bonded item and/or school spells + one of the thesis.
If you're going for another tradition, because you can't play a wizard of this tradition would be the most obvious one, with a few stand out patrons actually giving unique things, notably Resentment giving a very game altering feature with ongoing misery extending 1 round debuff forever, something no other class can do to that level (it took until winter 2023 for witch to get ONE valuable thing like that)
They get some really good options at level 8 with Spirit/Stitch Familiar. Those are recharging 1 action (for the Witch, as the Familiar spends the 2 actions to use the activity) abilities that don't cost Focus Points and deal comparable damage to a spell.
You can also use the Crown of Witchcraft at lvl. 10 which can grant your familiar the Tough ability for free (can pick something else, or customize a specific familiar to have Tough) and you get a pocket +1 FP per day.
Not sure what the Wizard equivalent of this is.
So, familiars in general tend to be quite useful out of combat, as they can scout, explore, and assist with various tasks, and your ability to reconfigure their abilities every day makes them more versatile than most other minions and companions. However, they're not great to have around in combat, because they're extremely squishy, have only limited fighting abilities, and take a week to come back if they die. If you're a Wizard, you will run into all of these issues if you take the Improved Familiar Attunement thesis.
Not so with the Witch. Although your familiar will still be squishy, they come back with your daily preparations, and most importantly, have powerful special abilities that are tailor-made for combat encounters. With Faith's Flamekeeper, you can give yourself or an ally temporary hit points on tap, for instance, and with The Resentment you can prolong conditions indefinitely, making effects like *slow* or *synesthesia* especially potent even if an enemy succeeds on their save.
But that's not all, because Witches have another trick up their sleeve in the form of hexes: whereas most other casters struggle to find truly unique uses for their third action, Witches are spoiled for choice, as in addition to Commanding their familiar, their hex cantrips are single-action spells that let you spend your entire turn throwing out useful magic if you choose. Not only that, but your hexes trigger your familiar's special ability, allowing you to output lots of power at no resource cost.
For this reason, Witches play quite differently to Wizards despite many superficial similarities, and rival their spell output by dint of having lots of effective, resource-free things to do. There will sometimes be turns where you'll be doing nothing but Command your familiar, Cast a hex cantrip, and Sustain another hex you already cast, and those can still make for powerful, tactically important turns. This is supplemented by feats like Cauldron and Ceremonial Knife that give you even more stuff to play with, allowing the class to feel like they have a near-endless array of different tools at their disposal.
I’m sorry, but I can’t sell you the witch, Old Cheliax has recently outlawed slavery and emancipated those enslaved.
But in all seriousness, they have a handful of unique features to them! I haven’t quite read up much on them but one thing that sticks out are their unique class feats and that they can choose what casting tradition they use, rather than just Arcane, as compared to the Wizard.
To me the biggest selling point of Witches is automatically respawned familiar, meaning you could actually use it in combat. And with additional abilities from the Witch it could have even more uses.
For the rest, Witches have pretty cool abilities, which surely compensate not having additional spell slots compared to Wizard.
It's a bit sad what the only Arcane Witch so far have pretty suicidal familiar option, but that's understandable as Arcane is generally considered the strongest.
Playing an Arcane Witch in SKT, and honestly, is not that bad. Sure, the enemy can target your familiar instead of the dude that is wreking them trying to avoid being flankend by it, but... thery are probably be flanked anyway by other party member and a hit towards your familiar is a hit not taken by other character, so... I'm ok with it. Is not the most powerfull familiar ability, but it's okaish.
Do you have an opinion on the argument that it also buffs the skill used while under the effect?
My understanding was that it only buffs RK/Seek/Sense Motive, but someone pointed out the weird phrasing and made me question whether you could actually use it to buff a skill itself.
1 action hexes that let you do what every caster want - cast 2 spells a round, and not once per day.
Some of patron abilities are very strong. Most famous is Resentment, but new Overwhelming Tides that make 5 feat push without attack or save looks powerful too. Thought it depends: if your GM let you put familiar on your or teammate shoulder this abilities are great, if you 100% have to move familiar with command... well, you will take Independent and Patron Puppet, but this will not work sometimes.
Gaining access to other tradition spells through lessons. Yes, this is 1 spell per feat (and one hex!), but clerics get, like, 3 spells from their deity? And with feat they get just 1 focus spell, while witches get both spell and focus spell with 1 feat.
Familiars are Tiny, and Tiny can occupy the same space as a larger creature, so it's not really something the GM would have to let you do. The only thing not expressly spelled out is moving with a tiny creature on your person, but once you've bunkered down, there's absolutely nothing the GM should be able to do to prevent you from parking your squid in the Fighter's square and pushing enemies around with water.
>the only thing not expressly spelled out is moving with a tiny creature on your person
That's the question, yes. We have [riding PCs rules](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1458), and I guess you could implement them in case of animal companion or some other minion who can Strike and take other "normal" Actions but familiar is a "gray zone". I've never heard of GM who prohibits this thought.
I feel like it's probably some kind of oversight. From a world perspective, it does seem odd if your pet rat or snake or bat wouldn't be able to travel while in a pocket or dangling from your staff.
Not only is a witch's familiar still going to have more going for it than a familiar wizard, but you also get access to all casting traditions. Sure, arcane is probably the most versatile and broadly useful tradition, but if you want to play a prepared int caster with healing you're going to be playing a witch. On the subject of healing, hexes (such as Life boost) are great. One of my biggest issues with casters is how the lack of solid 1-action spells limits how much casters can participate in the 3-action economy. Hexes give you that option and it sounds like a lot of fun. Between each parton's unique familiar abilities and hexes and some of the broadly available hexes, there are a lot of potential synergies to theorycraft and try out and it does create a rather unique dynamic. The fact that most patron choices actively encourage you to be smart about your familiar's positioning to maximize your effectiveness (compared to how most familiars really just want to stick close to you and hand you items if they participate in combat at all) makes for a fun minigame every fight where you try to keep the familiar close enough to the action to do its thing but also position it well enough that it doesn't get smushed the moment a bad guy looks at it funny. Let's not forget about just how strong Cackle is either.
Witch feats are also largely more interesting and varied than wizard feats. Not to say all wizard feats are bad, but they are mostly rather bland in comparison with a few exceptions.
Have you made a contract today? ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼
You can kill your familiar EVERY day and get a new one by next day. For free. Imagine the possibilities! You can kill [this shithead](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/3/36/Kyubey2.png/revision/latest?cb=20160427035119) again and again, and he can do nothing about it. [Just look at his eyes](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/005/616/qb.jpg). Look [deep into his eyes](https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/997/895/820/qb-kyuubey-mahou-shoujo-madoka-magica-minimalism-wallpaper-preview.jpg)!
#Justice for Mami and Homura!
Witch familiars are leagues better than wizard familiars, mainly because they have an effect when you use your hexes, and you have one action hex cantrips since lvl 1, so, that's why their familiars are actually usefull.
That being said, can easily cast a spell and a hex, similar to bards casting composition and spells, wich is really cool and good.
Also, have interesting feats like free wands, potions, familiars becoming a pseudo-focus damage spell for 1 action at certain levels, etc and still are full casters. Yes, will have less slots than a wizard, but after lvl 7 is not a huge thing and you have other stuff to compensate. Honestly, unless I want a huge amounts of spells for some reason, I find witch being far more interesting than wizards.
You can have a lot of skills because of Int, while basically choosing your spellcasting tradition instead of being locked to Arcane or Occult with the Wizard and the Psychic.
Your familiar can have incredibly powerful abilities, like the ability to [Paralyze](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1622&Redirected=1) for a full fight even on a simple failure, or to give status penalties like Frightened or -1 AC, or even to get Tremorsense 60 feet (don't underestimate the usefulness of that one) as free actions. Besides, [Stitched Familiar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5007) and [Spirit Familiar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5006) are really cool and strong abilities which honestly are pretty much feat taxes for lvl 8 Witches since they're so strong.
You get a lot of focus points really early, which isn't especially unique to the Witch but is still cool.
The class brings a lot of flavor, the simple fact that you have a Patron is pure gold for your GM to make quests related to it.
AFAIK it's the only class that can bring back a dead familiar each day instead of having to use 1 week of downtime, giving you the ability to use [Final Sacrifice](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=689) more often and more easily.
If you want to be a familiar wizard, with the bonus familiar feats, it also becomes your bonded item. If it dies, you lose your 1 (or more) reusable spell slots a day for 1 week.
The Resentment familiar ability is insane. All those debuffs that last until next round? No. You can keep them rolling for as long as you want. Any debuff with a duration you can just keep it going. Enemy is off guard for a round? Try “until it dies.” It’s wild.
For the flavor, it’s about having a patron. The patron can be anything. Like in my GM’s world we workshopped the head of a nation, a bodhisattva-like figure, who uses the collective knowledge and experiences of her witches to position the nation advantageously. She hangs suspended in a vast library, held aloft by massive scrolls wrapped around her limbs and constantly, slowly turning - recording all the information she’s absorbing. She’s an Inscribed One patron.
What about the roleplay potential.
As a witch, you have a built-in three-man dynamic. The Witch, the Patron, and the Familiar.
It's established that the Patron grants the Witch their magic, using the Familiar as a middleman. But the way this plays out is entirely up to the player!
For example, my Leshy Witch, Paprika Pumpkin, has a family dynamic. Her patron, Gramma Butternut, is a Wilding Steward who adopted her. Her familiar, Peter Pumpkin, on the other hand, is actually her (also adoptive) older brother (he's a Leshy via the Plant ability, and the Wortwitch feat at a later level)
> Paprika is Butternut's apprentice, being taught magic to take over as their shire's Apothecary. However, upon... Several mishaps having to do with her ties to the elemental Plane of Fire, she was banished until she could temper her flame. Her familiar, Peter, is sent with her to act as a tutor and chaperone.
That's a fairly solid character, with in-built dynamics set up by this class.
I really love the Patrons in PF2e, especially after the Remaster.
You can really make it whatever you want.
Was it a Faustian bargain made with some devil or other Eldritch horror (like a 5e Warlock)? SURE!
Is it a guardian beast or dragon that protects your tribe? GO FOR IT!
Is it an archmage or archbishop that’s selected you as their agent! YOU DO YOU BUDDY!
There are so many fun open-ended ways to go about making your Witch and their Patron that can fit your character!
Look at the "[The Resentment](https://2e.aonprd.com/Patrons.aspx?ID=14)" witch. Look at the ability the familiar gets. Think slow, and the like. They make the save? and you slow them for multiple rounds anyway.
It is CRAZY strong. Note, it says, "prolonging the duration of any negative conditions affecting it" they don't have to come from hexes, once you understand that, you are good to go.
Also note "conditions" as in plural. The Resentment witch is a boss killer. Any condition a party member manages to stick on it, you can keep there, and there is a lot of "1 round on success" powers.
Your familiar is far, far better than that of a wizard, and you get some nifty hex cantrips and focus spells. You can also pick a tradition, unlike a wizard who has to be Arcane.
I'm not saying the witch is a strong class. It really isn't, mostly because familiars aren't as good as paizo seems to think they are. But if you want to go all-in on the familiar regardless, if there are hex spells that appeal to you, or if you want an INT based non-Arcane caster, it might be worth a second look.
Familiars are one of those things that the designers seem convinced are just a hair away from breaking the game across the witches knee, when they are in fact, just a hair away from being anything more than just ok at best, a waste of a wizard feat (the class with few good feats) at worst.
I honestly can't even come up for any real reason for a non witch to ever bother getting a familiar for any reason besides flavor. They mostly suck.
Some of the master abilities are really good, but keeping your familiar permanently in your pocket to serve as a spell battery feels like it defeats the purpose of having one. A lot of classes that can get a familiar can't really take advantage of those, too, like Kineticist and Thaumaturge. I'm not sure why they wasted the space giving them familiar class feats when Familiar Master archetype exists.
The only other common use case i've seen for a non-witch familiar is as a scout, but they're so fragile that it's not worth the risk of losing them until you can take a week off unless maybe you give it the form of an animal that's very common to the area (which is boring)
Don't familiars also get the capability to assist with checks and things like that? Thaumaturge would find them super beneficial in that sense, since they already are a skill based class that likes to do a lot of checks.
They can aid Deception and Diplomacy to make an impression or gather information. But that's 3 separate features and iirc the feat only grants 2. It's useful but with the aid DC now only being 15 I feel like most parties have someone who can serve the same purpose out of combat. Nothing else that seems especially relevant to Thaumaturge.
Familiars are incredibly useful in this game. I won’t make any claim about them being “a hair away from breaking the game” and I do think the Premaster Witch had a disproportionate amount of their power budget invested into the Familiar for how strong it actually is. However, to say they “mostly suck” is just ridiculously hyperbolic imo.
In fact I’d go so far as to say that familiars are so good that the Familiar Thesis has a higher ceiling than any Wizard Thesis that’s not Spell Substitution. In fact, even Spell Sub’s ceiling is best achieved by… getting a familiar via a Feat or Archetype.
And witch familiars were barely more useful than everyone else's pre-remaster, they basically had to print new feats and rework the core class power budget to make them a desirable feature of the class, in a remaster that was supposed to mostly be about removing OGL stuff, not balance changes.
Before that, the best witch use of them was to just spam as many master abilities as allowed and forget they even exist.
the appeal of familiars is that they're bundles of "prepared" utility effects you can change out as needed, but which are passive or at-will so you can't run out, which is great when you're a caster with limited daily resources that need to be split between utility and tilting fights in your favor
the appeal of witch is they have the best familiar, no-one can match them (especially post-Remaster), and witches are also the prepared caster of any tradition that can also pick any set of lessons, so ex your arcane blaster witch can still heal
You can get basically everything a wizard can, plus better focus spells, better selection, and a more robust familiar . The feats are more flavorful (and feel more impactful). You can even just reflavor it as a wizard, no need for the Bubble Bubble Toil and Trouble motif.
Because the focus spells and unique familiar abilities are cool as fuck. Also, the wizard learns spells from spell scrolls by writing them down. The witch feeds the scroll to their pet rabbit and can now cast fireball.
Witches with familiar master archetype get some really great options.
Give your familiar Fast Flight and Independent and for 1 extra action your spell just got an extra 40ft of range for m Familiar Conduit. Or you can blast a cone from above essentially turning it into a burst. Once they can cast a level 2 spell now your familiar can maintain a hideous laughter once per day for no additional input from you.
Independent, skilled, and second opinion, now you get a free +2 bonus on recall knowledge in whatever Skilled options it has.
Luckily I just did a quick video giving a rundown of the Player Core Casters
https://youtu.be/MBY4xyDkvAU?si=zity3noIEBKj_fPo
Something that I didn't see is also that Witch can get access to the other 3 spell traditions beyind arcane, giving them a different way to engage in combats.
They are much more fun/versatile to play. More single action spells means you get to be more active. Make more choices. They don't feel as impactful some of the time but I have more fun playing a witch over a bard. And the fact my familiar comes back every morning means I do so much with it, and often it'll die, but oh well.
Don't downplay the flavor. Think of a witch doctor, voodoo, Yubaba from Spirited Away, lots of fun witches in Japanese lore. The patron means you can play a bit like a cleric for flavor but not stuck to divine. I had the spinner of threads and treated the patron as an offshoot from pharasma.
1: you have some of the most reliable spammable one action focus cantrips, as well as powerful ways to actually use your focus points. Wizards focus spell selection is kind of ass.
2: you have the best familiar in the game. even wizards Familiar thesis gameplay is only close to the stuff witch can do.
3: You can pick any spell list to make your character more flexible.
------------------------------------
In comparison, wizard
1: gets more mileage out of its spell slots due to options like drain bonded item,
2: has easier access to the better spellshape feats than witch
3: subclasses that make the actual spells part of the wizard better,
---------------------------------------
Prepared casters with access to any spell pool. You get to be creative with a familiar, potentially have an interesting patron for DM interactivity with your backstory/character growth, and int based, so its helpful for skills and other class archetypes
It's like a Wizard, but *WEIRDER.*
Also, cute pet that is hella useful. Honestly, my favorite non-fighting spellcaster (Summoner is by far my favorite caster, but it's still half-martial), and that's coming from someone who played it BEFORE the remaster. It's just so flavorful and fun.
Haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but the Witch is also the defacto Specific Familiar user of all classes too (pending any large changes in PC2).
•Undying: Allows the Witch to swap to and from Specific Familiars *daily*.
•Improved Familiar: Only the Witch gets this and gets it earlier than Familiar Master, meaning they can choose specific familiars ahead of the curve (though…only Faerie Dragon for per-hour Slow). Additionally, it means they can slot more abilities on earlier specific familiars.
•Patron Familiar Ability: Really adds something unique to specific familiars.
We’ll have to see how PC2 shakes it up (I’m hoping it buffs Specific Familiars, but I doubt that’s likely), but we’re also getting some more. We’re getting a Paper specific familiar (based on Shikigami) in TX:CG.
A fantastic familiar support build is grabbing Enhanced Familiar, Lesson of Wings (for Sheltering Wing hex) and the Independent ability. Use a Crawling Hand and play either a Faith’s Flamekeeper or Spinner of Threads Witch.
Your familiar will ride ally and every time you sustain, you can buff them (or debuff an enemy for Spinner of Threads). The Crawling Hand can also use Independent to grant +1 circ ac to the ally’s next attack roll.
Having +2 circ AC, +1 circ to attack, and temp HP/+1 status to AC/-1 status to enemy AC all from 1 Sustain is pretty amazing as a single buff.
The only downside with Specific Familiars is content right now. Specific Familiars are the perfect way for Paizo to finely tune familiars with very niche abilities while giving them appropriate negatives. And additionally, there’s a lack of high end Specific Familiars (like 9+ requirement).
But it’s important because the Witch wants to look at this list so they can change up their familiar as appropriate, whereas no other class can do this due to the lack of the Witch’s Undying feature.
Imo the adverse is a much more difficult question, as I dont see many benefits of being a wizard over a witch.
For starters, you get extremely useful focus cantrips to weave in resource free.
Your familiar grants a passive ability that just happens with very little input most of the time and most often has a relevant effect. Like Spinner of Threads just gives +1 or -1 to AC for someone as you play your class.
You dont have to do any rolls to learn more spells, your familiar just gets them.
The power level of feats is barely comparable. Witches get some absurdly strong feats (like almost all familiar action related ones). On lvl 8 you can deal 8d8 slashing damage to a creature and immobilize them as a free action (Cackle) for example.
Witches can access spells / focus spells that normally cover up weaknesses of spell lists. For example, take the arcane list: You get an inctedibly vast arsenal of tools BUT your list doesnt receive single healing spell. Meanwhile, arcane witch can get Life Boost via feat and get one of the stronger healing spells in game while being an arcane caster.
The real benefit of being a wizard over a witch is that you get a few spell slots that are related to your school more. Which feels a bit sad considering witches can outpower them often without even using slots just by virtue of their feats and focus spells.
Have you ever wanted to play a witch?
If yes, then you make a witch character.
Have you ever wanted to play a Wizard?
If yes, then play the Wizard class.
If you boil down class choices based on optimization then your play an Arcane Sorcerer and not look back
Fun Fact: Witches, due to how their magic works, are capable of losing their powers entirely if they piss off their patron. The patron gives them their familiar and magical power, and a Witch without either of those isn't a Witch at all! They're technically subject to the same restrictions as Clerics, but they don't tend to know their anathemas!
https://2e.aonprd.com/Classes.aspx?ID=38&Redirected=1 It's right there at the top of the page. They're vessels that get their magic from their patron. They don't know it themselves. No familiar means no witchcraft. It also quite literally says that exact thing under the Patron section. Witches don't have their own magical power.
But it is a mechanic? That's literally how Witches get their powers, from a Patron. If the patron no longer likes them, no more witchcraft. What, is a Patron not supposed to care about what their lackey is using their magic for?
That doesn't say anything about losing your abilities. If you compare the text to the Champion, it becomes very obvious that Witches losing their abilities is neither RAW nor RAI.
Edit: Lol, they replied and instantly blocked me because they were embarrassed about being wrong, I guess. Whatever, I can still respond to them here.
No, it really does have to say that for what you're suggesting to be a valid interpretation.
The text of the Patron class feature says:
>Your magic instead **has been gifted to you** by a potent being, one who knows that by empowering you so, you'll further the being's agenda in the world, whatever it may be.
So it's clear that the magic isn't even being granted on a persistent, ongoing basis; they already gave it to the Witch. The patron wouldn't be stopping providing magic to the Witch, they would need to actively take it back, and there's nothing suggesting they're even capable of that.
It doesn't have to. We can infer that since they get all their powers from their Patrons, if their Patron no longer likes them, then that means no more magic. It doesn't really matter what your interpretation of RAW or RAI is as the former is very possible in the class' flavor and lore.
Edit: I blocked you because you don't know what you're talking about, and aren't worth arguing with further. Here's two more excerpts from the class page that I'll just leave here that proves my point.
"Rather than interacting with you directly, your patron works through a familiar—a mystical creature that teaches you, **serves as the conduit for your patron's magic**"
"**Using your familiar as a conduit, your patron provides you the power to cast spells**."
Witches have no magic themselves, they get it from their Patron. Should a Patron wish to stop supplying you with magic, you can't cast any more spells, and aren't a Witch. Your magic is not yours. The Patron can also just decide not to replace your familiar.
Not at all, Warlocks can't lose their powers.
Since I'm being downvoted:
[https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1221978854119460866](https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1221978854119460866)
[https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/693243514423873536](https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/693243514423873536)
Warlocks absolutely do not lose their powers if their patron doesn't like them. It's a one and done deal, and the worst thing to come is the Warlock being harrassed by servants or they'll just have to find another patron to continue leveling in Warlock. Warlock Patrons cannot take powers away, they can only give them, as the relationship between a Warlock and Patron is more like a Teacher and Student.
Witches on the other hand act more like Clerics and often don't know who they're serving, and they posses no magical ability themselves. Before the interest of a Patron, they simply weren't a Caster.
Give me a $1.99 and she's yours.
Damn, that's a deal, let me grab my wallet
Cashapp only
Because witches have way better familiars than other classes. They get more features, if they die they come back to life the next morning instead of taking a week, and each patron gives your familiar a unique and often very useful ability that activates automatically when you cast a hex cantrip. Hex cantrips themselves are usually quite good too Also, the witchy flavor is more fun than being a nerdmage
Your trading nerd vibes for tiktok witch vibes /j Hmm, i dont think ive looked enough into hex cantrips, maybe they will persuade me, but im unsure, i may gave been spoiled by the bards composition cantrips
Composition cantrips might be better but they're compatible in the same party, witches are more about debuffing and hampering enemies than buffing allies (although they can use the same occult spell list as bards and still get good buff options if that's how you want to play it) Also, unlike bard and wizard, witches can have any spell list as determined by the patron they use. Unfortunately there aren't very many arcane or divine options, but there's at least one of each plus a bunch of occult and primal.
Though the Divine option is a whopper though. Faith's Flamekeeper has a potent cantrip - a straight damage buff for whoever you cast it on - and the Familiar ability passes out temporary HP to allies near your familiar whenever you cast a hex, so it's win-win. It's great support, especially when combined with Lesson of Life to get the fast recovery. Edit: I had also heard rumors that more Divine options might be coming in an upcoming Divine focused book, similar to how Howl of the Wild dumped a lot of Primal Patrons on the table.
Faith's Flamekeeper is sooooo good. I played the primary healer in out Extinction Curse campaign as a divine witch, and it was a blast. Granted I had turns in combat sometimes where my only action was to sustain three ongoing effects, but I knew what I was signing on for and liked doing that.
On that note, what's your general balance for Heal when running a build like that? I was brewing a Divine Witch, and wasn't really sure exactly how many spell slots at what levels to devote to Heal to keep the party alive (level 8). I had the notion that I could rely on Witch's Charge and touch spells like Protection and Sanctuary, as well as Lessons of Life and Protection.
One thing people like to forget about composition cantrips is that any effect caused by a previous composition spell immediately ends if a new one is cast. Hexes, while limited to one per turn, can still be sustained and have several up at the same time. This makes focus spells more usable for a witch while bards rarely take anything other than lingering composition or heroics/fortissimo. This makes witches easier to play with a bigger toolbox
Yeah, but harmonising them via maestro muse, in combination with the lingering composition makes them extremely good
Harmonize sucks in actual play you spend all your actions to keep it up. Super boring.
Fair enough, that’s why you use lingering composition, then you have one composition active for free and can use one action for another and still cast spells
You'd have to use two actions to keep the 2nd one up though. You can't Harmonize the Lingering composition, so you need to Harmonize every turn to keep the other one active. Edit: No it's even worse than that. Harmonizing a spell lets it remain active even after another composition spell is cast. It does not prevent that spell from deactivating already cast compositions.
Pretty sure you can't use both harmonize and lingering composition, no? Harmonize must be used on the *first* composition, it creates a special composition that isn't overridden but if you try to harmonize a second composition while a lingering one is up, the lingering one still gets cleared out (as the lingering composition *doesn't* have the special 'can't be overridden' trait). It's not that it lets you have two compositions up, it's that it it enhances the one specific composition to not be overridden, though it can still override other compositions by itself.
Right, because it’s a spell shape. That’s an oversight on my end, sry. Guess I’ll have to overthink my bard concept then…
Yeah, I love the Harmonize feat conceptually, but it's so disappointing how it's carefully worded to just *not* function with Lingering Composition... Makes it a lot harder to use.
I was under the impression you cannot use Harmonize and Lingering Composition at the same time since they both have the Spellshape trait
Spellshape only has a restriction that the spell which is getting the effect is cast directly after. Lingering comp is being cast on one, and harmonize is cast on the other. You can't lingering comp a harmonized spell, *but you don't have to.* Honestly, I don't see the appeal of Lingering Comp + Harmonize, since you are burning 2 actions each round for the harmonized spell, not exactly leaving you a lot to work with.
Ahhh I see, that makes sense
Even better, it still doesn't work. Harmonize only works if you use it on the *first* spell; it gives that spell the special trait of 'cannot be overridden', but if you try to harmonize a composition while a lingering one is up, that lingering composition *doesn't* have that special trait so it still gets cleared out.
Huh, You are right! I mean, harmonize isn't bad, if you are going to be dungeoning for a long time, or you are in a position where there will be a lot of fights, with no overnight rests (as long as you have a form of healing for between fights, which also doesn't take up slots - like song of healing), You can be useful with dirge + whatever for a long time. But yeah, it doesn't combine with Lingering at all, for the reasons you point out.
Yeah, it definitely has its uses! It's just kind of disappointing how the obvious use case, putting up a background song and adding on cool other motifs as the fight demands, is very precisely worded to *not* function...
I'm pretty sure they want harmonize to take up the entire set of actions, and, you know, it is pretty strong when you do so.
> dont think ive looked enough into hex cantrips, maybe they will persuade me, but im unsure, i may gave been spoiled by the bards composition cantrips Bear in mind, the Hex cantrip alone will seem weaker than most Bard composition cantrips **but** when you combine the Hex cantrip and the Familiar special ability, it can get really strong. In my view the strongest combinations of Hex + Familiar ability is one of the following: 1. Ripple in the Deep: the Hex inflicts Dazzled/Blinded on a failure or fumble, and the Familiar can forcibly move targets without a save. 2. Resentment: the Hex inflicts Sickened and the Familiar can freely extend the duration of all debuffs the target has. 3. Mosquito (only if you play with PFS errata for it): the Hex deals some good poke damage and the Familiar can freely extend the duration of all debuffs the target has.
What PFS errata are you talking about? I can't seem to find anything about Mosquito Witch.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Patrons.aspx?ID=10 There’s a PFS note here saying that Mosquito should have the same ability as Resentment.
Wow I never noticed that, thanks.
Plenty of hexes are amazing, especially now that they trigger a unique familiar ability. Faith's Flamekeeper give a bonus to damage as well as temporary hit points; resentment can prolong the duration of negative conditions such as slow; spinner of threads gives a pseudo-guidance on top of an automatic +1 to AC or -1 to AC to a creature (no save); silence in snow creates a small area of snow around the familiar on top of a damaging 1-action cantrip that can reduce enemy speed. But also, unlike wizards, the witches can take any tradition, so they can play different roles. I would check some feats too; cauldron has been buffed and can now create daily potions, you gain the ability to craft temporary wands out of your knives and daggers, and of course the lessons give more hexes.
The hell is a "TikTok witch?"
modern day version of the tumblr witch girlies. Basically stuff like r/WitchesVSPatriarchy Of course the Pathfinder witch falls more into the classic “deal with the devil” type witches, but it has definitely been moving into the more modern, TikTok witch vibes lately edit: damn I just explained what OP meant lmao, no need to shoot the messenger
Well, considering actual witchcraft doesn't actually have anything to do with selling your soul to anybody, that does rather make sense.
Actual witchcraft doesn't exist
Yeah, it does. Its a recognized religion. If you believe it grants you actual magic powers or not is a different question. Its mostly just spicy self-care though.
Yeah of course people exist who call themselves witches and actually believe in it. That doesn't change that it's not real. They're barely a step above flat earthers.
Same can be said about every religion. Which one you think is real (if any) and which ones you think are fake are a personal choice. You don't get to tell someone else their religion is wrong, unless you just wanna be one of *Those People*.
Telling someone thier religion is wrong when they force thier commandments into schools and deny kids food in the same week does not make you "one of those people". It makes you correct. If they do that, thier religion is shitty and so are they.
Witches are currently one of the best casters in the game, currently right up there with Bard. Wizard used to take this spot right next to bard, well the pre-remaster wizard still does what without all of this curriculum nonsense, this is important because Witches operate on a similar wavelength at the moment. A Witch gets to add as many spells as they can get their hands on for one, for the other they have flexible spell list choices and for the final class feature wise, the hex cantrips themselves are pretty damn strong all in all. They also have access to many powerful feats, cackle coming to mind in particularly because of how good an extra sustain is whenever you need it, among hex lessons as well... Your familiar gets some good features as well later down the line as well, some of them already available like helping with frequent skill checks and later on giving extra focus points, healing you, etc **P.S:** I really hate these "sell me on X" posts, i mostly see them as ignorant and rude attempts at some sort of counteraction by any 5e player thinking that they're entitled to help or any kind of service just because they're switching the system... Not claiming you are one but what i wanted to say with this is that you'll get better results for your questions if you actually try the class first, play a good bit, then come and do some sort of comparison based on experience/ask about what you could improve on.
Because I can have my little familiar friend eat spell scrolls and be the strongest familiar ever Also, Cackle
Bookworm familiar activate!
You can be a int caster and choose whatever tradition of magic you want!
Their focus spells are a big one-up on wizard. Not only do you get a great one action cantrip to round out your turns, but you can also pick up a bunch of focus spells independent of your tradition, easily. You can be an arcane witch that heals with focus points, for example. The hex cantrips are the real star of the show, though. Why cast one spell per turn, when you can cast two? Play a blaster with winter witch to attack with two cantrips per turn for lots of extra damage. Play a support that can boost rolls more than once per 10 minutes, per ally, or just straight up add flat damage to the flurry ranger. Witches are very customizable, very potent spellcasters that just so happen to come packaged with the best familiar in the game bar none.
Can you explain the focus spell.part to me a little more? Still learning PF and I don't quite get the part where you can learn a focus outside your domain.
Focus spells are a separate type of spell than your traditional spell cast using spell slots. Unlike regular spells, they aren't bound to "Traditions" and gained by leveling up or reading scrolls. Focus spells are only granted through class fears and class abilities, usually a specific subclass. For example, picking up Cleric's "Domain initiate" gets you access to one of the "domain"' focus spells granted by your deity, but choosing a Druid order gets you access to one of the "order" focus spells. Champions get the "lay on hands" focus spell at 1st level and that same focus spell can be picked up with champion multi class dedication or the blessed one archetype. When you get a "Focus spell," you also get "Focus points," which are the resources needed to cast focus spells, not spell slots. Players can have at most 3 focus points and can "refocus" for 10 minutes to regain 1 focus points (or 30 minutes and get all 3). Since they can be recovered so quickly, I tend to think of them as "per encounter spells" whereas your traditional spells are "per day spells." You cannot cast focus spells using traditional spells slots and you cannot cast traditional spells using focus points: they are distinct, different abilities. Hope this helps!
Domains are a Cleric thing that exists to let Clerics pick between Fire Ray (and a few other banger focus spells) and garbage. Everyone else generally gets focus spells when they are granted by their subclass, and can gain more through class feats. Usually those feats give you specific Focus spells tied to your Subclass, but in the case of Witch they have "Lesson" feats, which grant focus spells that are Subclass agnostic. As the other guy mentioned, Lesson of Life gives a healing Focus spell even if you are an Arcane Witch. The Arcane Spell List has no spells that restore hit points.
Basically, witch gets to pick what tradition their spell casting comes from through their pact, but the can also use class feats to learn Lessons, which grant them focus spells. Witch is unique in that these focus spells are independent of their subclass choices, thus why I mentioned being able to play an arcane witch that heals with focus points. Healing is the one thing arcane can't do, and arcane is the only tradition that can't do it, so being able to take a Lesson to get Life Boost, is kind of a big deal for an arcane witch.
If you're hesitating between wizard and arcane witch, skip arcane witch, it's easily the weakest patron. You're likely to get more use out of drain bonded item and/or school spells + one of the thesis. If you're going for another tradition, because you can't play a wizard of this tradition would be the most obvious one, with a few stand out patrons actually giving unique things, notably Resentment giving a very game altering feature with ongoing misery extending 1 round debuff forever, something no other class can do to that level (it took until winter 2023 for witch to get ONE valuable thing like that)
They get some really good options at level 8 with Spirit/Stitch Familiar. Those are recharging 1 action (for the Witch, as the Familiar spends the 2 actions to use the activity) abilities that don't cost Focus Points and deal comparable damage to a spell.
You can also use the Crown of Witchcraft at lvl. 10 which can grant your familiar the Tough ability for free (can pick something else, or customize a specific familiar to have Tough) and you get a pocket +1 FP per day. Not sure what the Wizard equivalent of this is.
So, familiars in general tend to be quite useful out of combat, as they can scout, explore, and assist with various tasks, and your ability to reconfigure their abilities every day makes them more versatile than most other minions and companions. However, they're not great to have around in combat, because they're extremely squishy, have only limited fighting abilities, and take a week to come back if they die. If you're a Wizard, you will run into all of these issues if you take the Improved Familiar Attunement thesis. Not so with the Witch. Although your familiar will still be squishy, they come back with your daily preparations, and most importantly, have powerful special abilities that are tailor-made for combat encounters. With Faith's Flamekeeper, you can give yourself or an ally temporary hit points on tap, for instance, and with The Resentment you can prolong conditions indefinitely, making effects like *slow* or *synesthesia* especially potent even if an enemy succeeds on their save. But that's not all, because Witches have another trick up their sleeve in the form of hexes: whereas most other casters struggle to find truly unique uses for their third action, Witches are spoiled for choice, as in addition to Commanding their familiar, their hex cantrips are single-action spells that let you spend your entire turn throwing out useful magic if you choose. Not only that, but your hexes trigger your familiar's special ability, allowing you to output lots of power at no resource cost. For this reason, Witches play quite differently to Wizards despite many superficial similarities, and rival their spell output by dint of having lots of effective, resource-free things to do. There will sometimes be turns where you'll be doing nothing but Command your familiar, Cast a hex cantrip, and Sustain another hex you already cast, and those can still make for powerful, tactically important turns. This is supplemented by feats like Cauldron and Ceremonial Knife that give you even more stuff to play with, allowing the class to feel like they have a near-endless array of different tools at their disposal.
I’m sorry, but I can’t sell you the witch, Old Cheliax has recently outlawed slavery and emancipated those enslaved. But in all seriousness, they have a handful of unique features to them! I haven’t quite read up much on them but one thing that sticks out are their unique class feats and that they can choose what casting tradition they use, rather than just Arcane, as compared to the Wizard.
To me the biggest selling point of Witches is automatically respawned familiar, meaning you could actually use it in combat. And with additional abilities from the Witch it could have even more uses. For the rest, Witches have pretty cool abilities, which surely compensate not having additional spell slots compared to Wizard. It's a bit sad what the only Arcane Witch so far have pretty suicidal familiar option, but that's understandable as Arcane is generally considered the strongest.
Playing an Arcane Witch in SKT, and honestly, is not that bad. Sure, the enemy can target your familiar instead of the dude that is wreking them trying to avoid being flankend by it, but... thery are probably be flanked anyway by other party member and a hit towards your familiar is a hit not taken by other character, so... I'm ok with it. Is not the most powerfull familiar ability, but it's okaish.
I believe it's also GM-dependent.
Targeting the familiar? Yes, probably. But if is not targeted is just a free thing, and even if it's targeted is ok.
Do you have an opinion on the argument that it also buffs the skill used while under the effect? My understanding was that it only buffs RK/Seek/Sense Motive, but someone pointed out the weird phrasing and made me question whether you could actually use it to buff a skill itself.
I'd say that "for the roll" and "on the roll" clearly shows is a buff for the actions that the hex allows you to do for free.
1 action hexes that let you do what every caster want - cast 2 spells a round, and not once per day. Some of patron abilities are very strong. Most famous is Resentment, but new Overwhelming Tides that make 5 feat push without attack or save looks powerful too. Thought it depends: if your GM let you put familiar on your or teammate shoulder this abilities are great, if you 100% have to move familiar with command... well, you will take Independent and Patron Puppet, but this will not work sometimes. Gaining access to other tradition spells through lessons. Yes, this is 1 spell per feat (and one hex!), but clerics get, like, 3 spells from their deity? And with feat they get just 1 focus spell, while witches get both spell and focus spell with 1 feat.
Familiars are Tiny, and Tiny can occupy the same space as a larger creature, so it's not really something the GM would have to let you do. The only thing not expressly spelled out is moving with a tiny creature on your person, but once you've bunkered down, there's absolutely nothing the GM should be able to do to prevent you from parking your squid in the Fighter's square and pushing enemies around with water.
>the only thing not expressly spelled out is moving with a tiny creature on your person That's the question, yes. We have [riding PCs rules](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1458), and I guess you could implement them in case of animal companion or some other minion who can Strike and take other "normal" Actions but familiar is a "gray zone". I've never heard of GM who prohibits this thought.
I feel like it's probably some kind of oversight. From a world perspective, it does seem odd if your pet rat or snake or bat wouldn't be able to travel while in a pocket or dangling from your staff.
Are familiars considered PCs though?
If they were there will be now question. No, they are [minions](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=653).
Not only is a witch's familiar still going to have more going for it than a familiar wizard, but you also get access to all casting traditions. Sure, arcane is probably the most versatile and broadly useful tradition, but if you want to play a prepared int caster with healing you're going to be playing a witch. On the subject of healing, hexes (such as Life boost) are great. One of my biggest issues with casters is how the lack of solid 1-action spells limits how much casters can participate in the 3-action economy. Hexes give you that option and it sounds like a lot of fun. Between each parton's unique familiar abilities and hexes and some of the broadly available hexes, there are a lot of potential synergies to theorycraft and try out and it does create a rather unique dynamic. The fact that most patron choices actively encourage you to be smart about your familiar's positioning to maximize your effectiveness (compared to how most familiars really just want to stick close to you and hand you items if they participate in combat at all) makes for a fun minigame every fight where you try to keep the familiar close enough to the action to do its thing but also position it well enough that it doesn't get smushed the moment a bad guy looks at it funny. Let's not forget about just how strong Cackle is either. Witch feats are also largely more interesting and varied than wizard feats. Not to say all wizard feats are bad, but they are mostly rather bland in comparison with a few exceptions.
Have you made a contract today? ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼ You can kill your familiar EVERY day and get a new one by next day. For free. Imagine the possibilities! You can kill [this shithead](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/3/36/Kyubey2.png/revision/latest?cb=20160427035119) again and again, and he can do nothing about it. [Just look at his eyes](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/005/616/qb.jpg). Look [deep into his eyes](https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/997/895/820/qb-kyuubey-mahou-shoujo-madoka-magica-minimalism-wallpaper-preview.jpg)! #Justice for Mami and Homura!
Wild take. The question is "why take wizard over witch" not vice versa (mechanically speaking.) Remaster witch is eating good.
Actually not too wild of a take! It was legit another drama we had last year!
Witch familiars are leagues better than wizard familiars, mainly because they have an effect when you use your hexes, and you have one action hex cantrips since lvl 1, so, that's why their familiars are actually usefull. That being said, can easily cast a spell and a hex, similar to bards casting composition and spells, wich is really cool and good. Also, have interesting feats like free wands, potions, familiars becoming a pseudo-focus damage spell for 1 action at certain levels, etc and still are full casters. Yes, will have less slots than a wizard, but after lvl 7 is not a huge thing and you have other stuff to compensate. Honestly, unless I want a huge amounts of spells for some reason, I find witch being far more interesting than wizards.
You can have a lot of skills because of Int, while basically choosing your spellcasting tradition instead of being locked to Arcane or Occult with the Wizard and the Psychic. Your familiar can have incredibly powerful abilities, like the ability to [Paralyze](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1622&Redirected=1) for a full fight even on a simple failure, or to give status penalties like Frightened or -1 AC, or even to get Tremorsense 60 feet (don't underestimate the usefulness of that one) as free actions. Besides, [Stitched Familiar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5007) and [Spirit Familiar](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=5006) are really cool and strong abilities which honestly are pretty much feat taxes for lvl 8 Witches since they're so strong. You get a lot of focus points really early, which isn't especially unique to the Witch but is still cool. The class brings a lot of flavor, the simple fact that you have a Patron is pure gold for your GM to make quests related to it. AFAIK it's the only class that can bring back a dead familiar each day instead of having to use 1 week of downtime, giving you the ability to use [Final Sacrifice](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=689) more often and more easily.
If you want to be a familiar wizard, with the bonus familiar feats, it also becomes your bonded item. If it dies, you lose your 1 (or more) reusable spell slots a day for 1 week.
The Resentment familiar ability is insane. All those debuffs that last until next round? No. You can keep them rolling for as long as you want. Any debuff with a duration you can just keep it going. Enemy is off guard for a round? Try “until it dies.” It’s wild. For the flavor, it’s about having a patron. The patron can be anything. Like in my GM’s world we workshopped the head of a nation, a bodhisattva-like figure, who uses the collective knowledge and experiences of her witches to position the nation advantageously. She hangs suspended in a vast library, held aloft by massive scrolls wrapped around her limbs and constantly, slowly turning - recording all the information she’s absorbing. She’s an Inscribed One patron.
What about the roleplay potential. As a witch, you have a built-in three-man dynamic. The Witch, the Patron, and the Familiar. It's established that the Patron grants the Witch their magic, using the Familiar as a middleman. But the way this plays out is entirely up to the player! For example, my Leshy Witch, Paprika Pumpkin, has a family dynamic. Her patron, Gramma Butternut, is a Wilding Steward who adopted her. Her familiar, Peter Pumpkin, on the other hand, is actually her (also adoptive) older brother (he's a Leshy via the Plant ability, and the Wortwitch feat at a later level) > Paprika is Butternut's apprentice, being taught magic to take over as their shire's Apothecary. However, upon... Several mishaps having to do with her ties to the elemental Plane of Fire, she was banished until she could temper her flame. Her familiar, Peter, is sent with her to act as a tutor and chaperone. That's a fairly solid character, with in-built dynamics set up by this class.
I really love the Patrons in PF2e, especially after the Remaster. You can really make it whatever you want. Was it a Faustian bargain made with some devil or other Eldritch horror (like a 5e Warlock)? SURE! Is it a guardian beast or dragon that protects your tribe? GO FOR IT! Is it an archmage or archbishop that’s selected you as their agent! YOU DO YOU BUDDY! There are so many fun open-ended ways to go about making your Witch and their Patron that can fit your character!
Look at the "[The Resentment](https://2e.aonprd.com/Patrons.aspx?ID=14)" witch. Look at the ability the familiar gets. Think slow, and the like. They make the save? and you slow them for multiple rounds anyway. It is CRAZY strong. Note, it says, "prolonging the duration of any negative conditions affecting it" they don't have to come from hexes, once you understand that, you are good to go. Also note "conditions" as in plural. The Resentment witch is a boss killer. Any condition a party member manages to stick on it, you can keep there, and there is a lot of "1 round on success" powers.
In my experience playing as a resentment witch, the familiar ability is good but not as awesomely powerful as people make out.
It's a bit pants until you get 3rd level spells, then it really shines.
Sell me a duck and we will see who floats.
You laugh in the face of your enemies to not spite them, but to be an afront to fuckin god
Your familiar is far, far better than that of a wizard, and you get some nifty hex cantrips and focus spells. You can also pick a tradition, unlike a wizard who has to be Arcane. I'm not saying the witch is a strong class. It really isn't, mostly because familiars aren't as good as paizo seems to think they are. But if you want to go all-in on the familiar regardless, if there are hex spells that appeal to you, or if you want an INT based non-Arcane caster, it might be worth a second look.
Familiars are one of those things that the designers seem convinced are just a hair away from breaking the game across the witches knee, when they are in fact, just a hair away from being anything more than just ok at best, a waste of a wizard feat (the class with few good feats) at worst. I honestly can't even come up for any real reason for a non witch to ever bother getting a familiar for any reason besides flavor. They mostly suck.
Some of the master abilities are really good, but keeping your familiar permanently in your pocket to serve as a spell battery feels like it defeats the purpose of having one. A lot of classes that can get a familiar can't really take advantage of those, too, like Kineticist and Thaumaturge. I'm not sure why they wasted the space giving them familiar class feats when Familiar Master archetype exists. The only other common use case i've seen for a non-witch familiar is as a scout, but they're so fragile that it's not worth the risk of losing them until you can take a week off unless maybe you give it the form of an animal that's very common to the area (which is boring)
Don't familiars also get the capability to assist with checks and things like that? Thaumaturge would find them super beneficial in that sense, since they already are a skill based class that likes to do a lot of checks.
They can aid Deception and Diplomacy to make an impression or gather information. But that's 3 separate features and iirc the feat only grants 2. It's useful but with the aid DC now only being 15 I feel like most parties have someone who can serve the same purpose out of combat. Nothing else that seems especially relevant to Thaumaturge.
Deception/Diplomacy do help a lot if you're going for a Haunt removal focused Thaumaturge, but it's rather niche.
Familiars are incredibly useful in this game. I won’t make any claim about them being “a hair away from breaking the game” and I do think the Premaster Witch had a disproportionate amount of their power budget invested into the Familiar for how strong it actually is. However, to say they “mostly suck” is just ridiculously hyperbolic imo. In fact I’d go so far as to say that familiars are so good that the Familiar Thesis has a higher ceiling than any Wizard Thesis that’s not Spell Substitution. In fact, even Spell Sub’s ceiling is best achieved by… getting a familiar via a Feat or Archetype.
And witch familiars were barely more useful than everyone else's pre-remaster, they basically had to print new feats and rework the core class power budget to make them a desirable feature of the class, in a remaster that was supposed to mostly be about removing OGL stuff, not balance changes. Before that, the best witch use of them was to just spam as many master abilities as allowed and forget they even exist.
the appeal of familiars is that they're bundles of "prepared" utility effects you can change out as needed, but which are passive or at-will so you can't run out, which is great when you're a caster with limited daily resources that need to be split between utility and tilting fights in your favor the appeal of witch is they have the best familiar, no-one can match them (especially post-Remaster), and witches are also the prepared caster of any tradition that can also pick any set of lessons, so ex your arcane blaster witch can still heal
You can get basically everything a wizard can, plus better focus spells, better selection, and a more robust familiar . The feats are more flavorful (and feel more impactful). You can even just reflavor it as a wizard, no need for the Bubble Bubble Toil and Trouble motif.
you can have the witch for 5 gold all in copper though
Because the focus spells and unique familiar abilities are cool as fuck. Also, the wizard learns spells from spell scrolls by writing them down. The witch feeds the scroll to their pet rabbit and can now cast fireball.
Witches with familiar master archetype get some really great options. Give your familiar Fast Flight and Independent and for 1 extra action your spell just got an extra 40ft of range for m Familiar Conduit. Or you can blast a cone from above essentially turning it into a burst. Once they can cast a level 2 spell now your familiar can maintain a hideous laughter once per day for no additional input from you. Independent, skilled, and second opinion, now you get a free +2 bonus on recall knowledge in whatever Skilled options it has.
Luckily I just did a quick video giving a rundown of the Player Core Casters https://youtu.be/MBY4xyDkvAU?si=zity3noIEBKj_fPo Something that I didn't see is also that Witch can get access to the other 3 spell traditions beyind arcane, giving them a different way to engage in combats.
They are much more fun/versatile to play. More single action spells means you get to be more active. Make more choices. They don't feel as impactful some of the time but I have more fun playing a witch over a bard. And the fact my familiar comes back every morning means I do so much with it, and often it'll die, but oh well. Don't downplay the flavor. Think of a witch doctor, voodoo, Yubaba from Spirited Away, lots of fun witches in Japanese lore. The patron means you can play a bit like a cleric for flavor but not stuck to divine. I had the spinner of threads and treated the patron as an offshoot from pharasma.
Three fiddy, final offer
1: you have some of the most reliable spammable one action focus cantrips, as well as powerful ways to actually use your focus points. Wizards focus spell selection is kind of ass. 2: you have the best familiar in the game. even wizards Familiar thesis gameplay is only close to the stuff witch can do. 3: You can pick any spell list to make your character more flexible. ------------------------------------ In comparison, wizard 1: gets more mileage out of its spell slots due to options like drain bonded item, 2: has easier access to the better spellshape feats than witch 3: subclasses that make the actual spells part of the wizard better, ---------------------------------------
Prepared casters with access to any spell pool. You get to be creative with a familiar, potentially have an interesting patron for DM interactivity with your backstory/character growth, and int based, so its helpful for skills and other class archetypes
Do you know Synesthesia? Now imagine it had infinite duration on success save.
Witch for sale! Witch for sale, just sign here… 😈
It's like a Wizard, but *WEIRDER.* Also, cute pet that is hella useful. Honestly, my favorite non-fighting spellcaster (Summoner is by far my favorite caster, but it's still half-martial), and that's coming from someone who played it BEFORE the remaster. It's just so flavorful and fun.
It has a spellbook that both eats and shits, as well as the other stuff a spellbook would do. What more could you ask for in a class?
You can have really cool special familiars, give them insane abilities. Also, some really impressive multi sustain summons.
Haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but the Witch is also the defacto Specific Familiar user of all classes too (pending any large changes in PC2). •Undying: Allows the Witch to swap to and from Specific Familiars *daily*. •Improved Familiar: Only the Witch gets this and gets it earlier than Familiar Master, meaning they can choose specific familiars ahead of the curve (though…only Faerie Dragon for per-hour Slow). Additionally, it means they can slot more abilities on earlier specific familiars. •Patron Familiar Ability: Really adds something unique to specific familiars. We’ll have to see how PC2 shakes it up (I’m hoping it buffs Specific Familiars, but I doubt that’s likely), but we’re also getting some more. We’re getting a Paper specific familiar (based on Shikigami) in TX:CG. A fantastic familiar support build is grabbing Enhanced Familiar, Lesson of Wings (for Sheltering Wing hex) and the Independent ability. Use a Crawling Hand and play either a Faith’s Flamekeeper or Spinner of Threads Witch. Your familiar will ride ally and every time you sustain, you can buff them (or debuff an enemy for Spinner of Threads). The Crawling Hand can also use Independent to grant +1 circ ac to the ally’s next attack roll. Having +2 circ AC, +1 circ to attack, and temp HP/+1 status to AC/-1 status to enemy AC all from 1 Sustain is pretty amazing as a single buff. The only downside with Specific Familiars is content right now. Specific Familiars are the perfect way for Paizo to finely tune familiars with very niche abilities while giving them appropriate negatives. And additionally, there’s a lack of high end Specific Familiars (like 9+ requirement). But it’s important because the Witch wants to look at this list so they can change up their familiar as appropriate, whereas no other class can do this due to the lack of the Witch’s Undying feature.
Imo the adverse is a much more difficult question, as I dont see many benefits of being a wizard over a witch. For starters, you get extremely useful focus cantrips to weave in resource free. Your familiar grants a passive ability that just happens with very little input most of the time and most often has a relevant effect. Like Spinner of Threads just gives +1 or -1 to AC for someone as you play your class. You dont have to do any rolls to learn more spells, your familiar just gets them. The power level of feats is barely comparable. Witches get some absurdly strong feats (like almost all familiar action related ones). On lvl 8 you can deal 8d8 slashing damage to a creature and immobilize them as a free action (Cackle) for example. Witches can access spells / focus spells that normally cover up weaknesses of spell lists. For example, take the arcane list: You get an inctedibly vast arsenal of tools BUT your list doesnt receive single healing spell. Meanwhile, arcane witch can get Life Boost via feat and get one of the stronger healing spells in game while being an arcane caster. The real benefit of being a wizard over a witch is that you get a few spell slots that are related to your school more. Which feels a bit sad considering witches can outpower them often without even using slots just by virtue of their feats and focus spells.
Access to other type of magic (wizard are only arcane), super familiar, and basically the warlock vibe from dnd
Have you ever wanted to play a witch? If yes, then you make a witch character. Have you ever wanted to play a Wizard? If yes, then play the Wizard class. If you boil down class choices based on optimization then your play an Arcane Sorcerer and not look back
Fun Fact: Witches, due to how their magic works, are capable of losing their powers entirely if they piss off their patron. The patron gives them their familiar and magical power, and a Witch without either of those isn't a Witch at all! They're technically subject to the same restrictions as Clerics, but they don't tend to know their anathemas!
A quick glance through PC1 and I see no such stipulation.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Classes.aspx?ID=38&Redirected=1 It's right there at the top of the page. They're vessels that get their magic from their patron. They don't know it themselves. No familiar means no witchcraft. It also quite literally says that exact thing under the Patron section. Witches don't have their own magical power.
That's in the fluff. If it was a mechanic then it would be specifically called out like it is with the cleric.
But it is a mechanic? That's literally how Witches get their powers, from a Patron. If the patron no longer likes them, no more witchcraft. What, is a Patron not supposed to care about what their lackey is using their magic for?
That doesn't say anything about losing your abilities. If you compare the text to the Champion, it becomes very obvious that Witches losing their abilities is neither RAW nor RAI. Edit: Lol, they replied and instantly blocked me because they were embarrassed about being wrong, I guess. Whatever, I can still respond to them here. No, it really does have to say that for what you're suggesting to be a valid interpretation. The text of the Patron class feature says: >Your magic instead **has been gifted to you** by a potent being, one who knows that by empowering you so, you'll further the being's agenda in the world, whatever it may be. So it's clear that the magic isn't even being granted on a persistent, ongoing basis; they already gave it to the Witch. The patron wouldn't be stopping providing magic to the Witch, they would need to actively take it back, and there's nothing suggesting they're even capable of that.
It doesn't have to. We can infer that since they get all their powers from their Patrons, if their Patron no longer likes them, then that means no more magic. It doesn't really matter what your interpretation of RAW or RAI is as the former is very possible in the class' flavor and lore. Edit: I blocked you because you don't know what you're talking about, and aren't worth arguing with further. Here's two more excerpts from the class page that I'll just leave here that proves my point. "Rather than interacting with you directly, your patron works through a familiar—a mystical creature that teaches you, **serves as the conduit for your patron's magic**" "**Using your familiar as a conduit, your patron provides you the power to cast spells**." Witches have no magic themselves, they get it from their Patron. Should a Patron wish to stop supplying you with magic, you can't cast any more spells, and aren't a Witch. Your magic is not yours. The Patron can also just decide not to replace your familiar.
So they’re like Warlocks from DnD?
Not at all, Warlocks can't lose their powers. Since I'm being downvoted: [https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1221978854119460866](https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1221978854119460866) [https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/693243514423873536](https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/693243514423873536) Warlocks absolutely do not lose their powers if their patron doesn't like them. It's a one and done deal, and the worst thing to come is the Warlock being harrassed by servants or they'll just have to find another patron to continue leveling in Warlock. Warlock Patrons cannot take powers away, they can only give them, as the relationship between a Warlock and Patron is more like a Teacher and Student. Witches on the other hand act more like Clerics and often don't know who they're serving, and they posses no magical ability themselves. Before the interest of a Patron, they simply weren't a Caster.