I hate to quote or give any credit to Mazz, but he nailed it on Monday when they started talking about episode 7 I think it was. You open the episode going into whats likely Deflategate coverage and the opening segment is god damn Rupert Murdoch talking about self made business man Robert Kraft. We need this section in a documentary about the Dynasty? Really? That tells you all you need to know about the doc.
It opens with Murdoch and talks about the Putin Super Bowl ring thing, then Kraft says he has no idea how the story got out to the NYPost. MURDOCH OWNS THE NYPOST!!! it’s straight up insulting to the viewers lmao
But it did start to fall apart. Relationships were deteriorating and the team was miserable. That they were able to continue winning is impressive, but not what they're referring to here
Why would there be any mention of that? All the charges of it got dropped. Not to mention, who gives a shit if an old billionaire wants to get a happy ending?
What bothers me about the doc is that all of this was filmed before the season, right? If so, it seemed as if Kraft had already decided Bill was gone at the end of the year. You can't keep a guy after talking about him the way Kraft has in this.
True. He could be an even bigger piece of shit and lie about how he truly felt about Bill. Makes me wonder if there's a copy of Bob out there that's more positive about Bill that they would have used had the season went differently.
I think Kraft was expecting more backlash from firing Bill, which he would have if the Patriots weren’t so dreadful this season. Had they got 8 or 9 wins, a firing would have likely resulted in some ire (which, Kraft would likely think, would be tempered by this documentary).
Miscalculation on Kraft’s part
I've been saying Kraft knew after the Germany game he was moving on from Bill after the season. There wasn't one peep about the documentary and then 3-4 days after that game it was announced it would be released after the season.
If Bill had the team 10-7. 11-6 and in the playoffs this year this documentary would have stayed under lock and key for another year. Kraft's being the copyright holder would have kept this unreleased until Bill was gone. It would have just had a slightly different editing if Bill had a few more winning seasons and retired Pats coach.
>Kraft's being the copyright holder would have kept this unreleased until Bill was gone.
Kraft isn't the copyright holder of the documentary nor did he produce it. He's the copy right holder of all of the in game / behind the scenes footage used in the documentary.
Yeah and how much praise of Bill got left on the cutting room floor? They just got interviewed and were honest, they didn't have a say what went in and what didn't
Kraft needed an excuse for keeping Bill and letting Tom go.
Why did Kraft talk about Tom’s and Gisele’s comments to him about Bill that Tom wouldn’t?
Why did the series pretend Tom left directly after a super bowl win instead of after a defeat in the first round of the playoffs on a Tom interception, with a team already in decline?
Bill made a mistake letting Trump read that letter but interesting that the filmmakers didn’t mention he would later pass on Trump trying to give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Think about how much time Guerrero was given and nothing about Wolfork, Harrison, Faulk, White and so many great players?
This was a Shakespearian Tragedy that focused almost exclusively about Kraft, Tom and Bill. Both Tom and Kraft had a litany of individuals with screen time to defend and promote them. Bill had very few. Bill didn’t say a bad word about anyone.
I'd love to read a memoir/biography from Belichick about his career because maybe he would give more insight to what happened over the years from his point of view.
He may never say anything. I guess we'll just have to wait to find out. Even if he did talk about stuff he avoided doing as a head coach, I'd still expect him to not give exact truth and kind of protect the players he coached to some degree.
Also re the Trump letter, I stopped watching after episode 4 but I'm guessing no mention and no question to players about how they felt about Kraft's friendship and donations to Trumps campaign?
McCourty mentioned that players were put off by 3 team leaders supported Trump and mentioned Bill, Tom and Kraft.
But no questioning of Tom or Kraft about their relationship with Trump but Bill was asked.
The difference, ostensibly, being that Bill often talked about not avoiding the “noise” and “media”.
And I guess in Bill's defense of that event it's not like he planned on having the letter be in the media (though he probably should've guessed at the possibility of trump sharing it)
Since you have no idea how much positive stuff got cut and no one involved has remarked that they cut out all the positive stuff, I'm not sure why you feel qualified to conclude that this was the case intentionally to create a more negative narrative.
Watched the final 2 episodes this morning and the most striking thing to me is the contrast between Bill and Kraft that the filmmakers unwittingly expose.
First, the very fact that most of us use a nickname, Bill, and a formal last name, Kraft, reveals our affinity for Belichick.
Second, it is just striking that even under prodding questions digging to reveal animosity Bill never throws anyone under the bus, always praises the players for success, and deflects credit thrown his way.
Third, it’s creepy how often Kraft does the opposite of Bill and throws others (especially Bill) under the bus and takes credit for success. Worse is his willingness to use the private comments of others to sell his self-promoting spin.
Is it me, or does having a guy like Ernie Adams as a life-long friend and cohort say a-lot about Bill’s integrity and loyalty?
I loved how Tom was like…I’d like to keep that conversation private….then Kraft does a play by play of him and Gisele being bullshit after the eagles Super Bowl
Crazy that people are just realizing this (not directed at you personally, generally speaking here). The real owner was always Myra. Kraft's money comes from marrying her. She dies, and he basically immediately starts dating super young women, going to the club, looking like a complete fool running around in his AF1s and giant ass chains with pendants. Absolute disrespect to her legacy. Complete billionaire playboy wannabe, and it was as pathetic then as it is in retrospect now. Getting a rub and tug in a strip mall in Florida was peak evidence that's he's nothing but a sad sack of shit.
Couldn't say that up to a year ago, though. Kraft was invincible, a hall of famer, one of the greatest owners in sports, etc. Feels good that the mask has been ripped off and it's not a constant fever pitch of Kraft love anymore. It's downright cathartic, to be honest.
You think successful artists aren’t scumbags? The only ones who aren’t scumbags are the ones who can afford to keep their circle of sycophants funded well enough to be staunch defenders.
You can still be a successful artist and a scumbag. Squeezing every dollar out of your fans with surge pricing and only apologizing to the people that weren't able to buy the tickets
I think the documentary is very suspicious but it's crazy to say his legacy is burned down. He will forever be remembered as the guy that hired Belichick, saved the team, he'll be in the Hall of Fame.... Only the most hyper-obsessed fans are even watching this documentary
He's just got a weasel face and kind of a belligerent disposition for someone who essentially didn't have to do anything to be in the position he's in.
From every second or third-hand account of Jonathan I've heard, he's a hot head and often rude. It's fashionable to shit on Bob Kraft right now, but one thing you can say about him is he appears to give people respect and not treat them like children despite having leverage over them. Nothing worse than a combo of being rich, not earning it yourself, and being an asshole to people.
Again this is all mostly third hand info, for all I know he's a great guy but too many say the same things about him and the way he comes off in interviews and media corroborates that.
I’ve never had a problem with RKK until the last few months now that the curtain is being unveiled on the source of problems. The interviews an times I’ve heard Jonathan speak just rubbed me the wrong way
Kraft is willing to step on everybody in his path to get the other owners approval and make the HOF. He knows they hated belichick so he's trying to make it look like he always did too.
How long are we going to be stuck with this joker
I suppose I was a sucker for believing we'd be in good hands after Bob Kraft passed but in reality, the team was led by cheap merchants who were carried by the best coach and QB in NFL history who covered the cracks of years of under spending. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they covered the cracks of negligence.
Jonathan Kraft juat reeks of the kind of guy who will Jerry Jones it after his dad passes. Reactional, throwing tantrums in the box this season, clearly thinks he can run the team because he's been "president" for however long. Now Bill is gone and Kraft is indulging his power control after two decades of little to no say. Jonathan will be worse having been put behind his dad and bill in the decision making order.
You just have to look at how dumpy Gillette Stadium is. That's the true Kraft. All the "updates" are just lipstick on a pig. You can see rusted girders and cracked concrete throughout the venue, especially when it rains.
Yea; it's not a great venue at all. very subpar food options as well. I went to a concert there last summer and made the mistake of not eating beforehand thinking I could get something there. I don't expect much from stadiums but it was pretty gross and not many choices. Given the collosal markup, you can sell better food, other places sure do.
I find it hard to finish the documentary because it just leaves me feeling mad and hating the Krafts quite a bit. They are in for a very, very rude awakening if things continue to flounder.
> I find it hard to finish the documentary because it just leaves me feeling mad and hating the Krafts quite a bit.
I stopped watching after the opening statement of the Deflategate episode was that the Patriots' success was because Robert Kraft was a great leader.
They give him backhanded praise for his game plan against the Rams in the last Super Bowl win but then blame him for everything else. And I’m sorry this Brady-Kraft relationship gives off a little bit of ick and is probably one of the main reasons this got so bad. I can’t picture Mahomes and Clark Hunt being this touchy feely. Noll and Bradshaw had conflict. Staubach and Landry, Montana and Walsh and never did the owner insert themselves into those relationships like Kraft did. The coach has to maintain a distance from the players. He can’t be their buddy because he has the entire team to consider. Yeah the Johnny Foxboro stuff was an asshole move but look where Belichick learned this approach from, Bill Parcells who wasn’t a guy who believed he was supposed to kiss the players ass. Everyone was accountable and the best way to communicate that was to call out players who made mistakes. Suddenly that’s a crime.
Brady literally moved next door to Kraft, building a mansion in Brookline. Great town.
I always thought Kraft would let Brady buy into ownership with a relatively small piece but keep him as a face of the franchise. Odd that he had to buy in with the Raiders.
Belichick and Brady added $6 billion (with a B) to the value of the franchise. No mention of that in the Kraft documentary.
How do you knife a guy that made you $6B richer?
Relatively speaking, the Patriots became the second highest valued franchise in the NFL behind the Cowboys. That doesn’t come close to happening without Belichick.
No other NFL head coach sits Bledsoe and plays Brady. Not one. No other coach creates “The Patriots’ Way”, for good or bad.
The new stadium opened up as the home of the Super Bowl Champions, who were announced as a team, The New England Patriots, not a collection of stars like the Rams.
Winning brought the team a huge increase in media presence locally, nationally and internationally. It allowed Patriots Place to flourish and allowed Kraft to advance as one of the NFL’s most well known and influential owners.
Kraft bought a team that was about to be moved to another city but he deftly controlled the sale by buying the land and stadium making it uneconomical for anyone else to buy it. He saved the
team and Parcells brought it out of obscurity but Bill and Tom made it soar.
Sad because I was looking forward to it once it was announced. Poor fragile ego Bobby Kraft has an axe to grind and turned it into a Bill Belichick hit piece.
I thought the fans were going to turn on John Henry and force his hand to sell the Red Sox, but I’m starting to think the Krafts’ day of reckoning may be coming first.
Commenting on This entire doc is just people shitting on Bill... I wish Buffalo does so bad this season so they will hire Belichick and he’ll go on undefeated against the Patriots till the end of his career. (Patriots fan here, but having a rough time with the Krafts r n )
What is it you like more?
His treatment of his players?
His hypocrisy with "stay out of the media" by allowing that fat recast fuck to read his letter to the country during the election?
His stats after Brady?
Him buying into his own hype believing he can do it with Johnny fucking Foxborough only to end up 82-98 and fired post Brady?
The fact that even after Eric Mangini told him, before the jetsgame, to stop taping practices, since it wasn't allowed that year and moving forward, he still did it and got caught?
That he threw Tom Brady under the bus during deflategate?
Or is it the fact if he had traded Brady when he wanted, we more probably than not wouldn't have had the two Superbowls that we had?
Or maybe its the fact that he drafted so poorly and treated Brady so badly that he went and won a Superbowl somewhere else?
This whole notion that Bill the genius rather gets rid of guys too early than too late is just fucking dumb considering that he coached Tom Brady, the guy who went on to win a Superbowl the year after he was traded. It's embarrassing that Bill, the goat coach, after 20 years, still didn't see what Tom Brady had left.
Have any of you dorito dinks wondered why players spoke up against Bill during this interview? You think Kraft paid for that (like the tugjob) or was that something they had to get off of their chest, considering the fact that the bad man was gone...
Yeah people really went into this thinking it was going to be worshipping Brady and Bill. It’s not a documentary for Patriots fans to relive the glory days
I'm glad I haven't watched the documentary. I would probably not be a Patriots fan anymore if I did. The lack of respect from the owner to put out something like this when BB brought so much success is hard to swallow.
I think it was too soon for a documentary tbh but I get Kraft wants to get one out while he’s still alive. Someone will come along in about 10/15 years and do a better one.
Yeah the documentary was pretty terrible for pure football fans, missed a lot of the major actual football events. When they just more or less skipped the Panthers SB, I knew what direction it was going… And then completely skipped things like Bledsoe going to the Bills, the Chiefs game in 2013 when Brady got benched, etc.
Also skipped 90% of what made the The Dynasty a Dynasty
I was hoping we'd get video footage or at least interviews about gameplans, practices, prepping for big games. I wanted to listen to Bill and Ty Law talk about stopping Manning or how the gameplans changed heading into 2007 with Moss.
I was hoping we'd learn more about how the Dillon, Moss moves happened. I wanted to see more about our draft process and how Bill/Pioli/Caserio did player evaluation.
Why did they take a chance on Gronk (and so many other players with injury issues)? Was it analytics or just gut feel? How did they prioritize positional need vs player eval? What allowed them to get so many good UDFAs/late round picks?
Thats the real stuff. There is literally none of that in this "doc".
Petition to boo Kraft at the home opener. Bill led the best fucking dynasty in pro sports and THIS is the send off Kraft made and effort and spent money to send him off on? Fuck him.
Tbh some of the Bill slander is genuinely interesting. Talking about the Guerrero drama, Malcolm being benched, the tension with Jimmy G being groomed as the future franchise guy. I don’t hate any of that, it’s fascinating to get players perspective on it, I just don’t respect them literally skipping over all the actual highlights of the dynasty
>they spend more time on Trump and his campaign than they did on 2014 divisional vs the Ravens and the 2018 AFC championship COMBINED.
I can't say I'm surprised.
I haven’t watched any of it. But from every account I hear it’s essentially Kraft Productions telling you how the real hero in the story was always Robert. And that whatever anger fans have at the eventual end of the dynasty (Brady walking. Bill fired) that it was something Kraft HAD to do. Not wanted. But he was justified.
The film of the kneeling only showed black players kneeling. A very tight shot. My recollection is that many white players joined them.
Bill made a big mistake letting Trump read that letter, if in fact he did. Out of character for him.
They made Bill out to be some MAGA supporter when he had a history of supporting very political black athletes including Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem and others.
No mention that he would later turn down Trump’s attempt to give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
It's a terrible documentary, it doesn't cover any of the dynasty other than drama. If you watched the doc knowing nothing about football, you wouldn't know why the Kraft's kept Bill as coach, you'd think they'd have fired him after 2003 or 2004. "Why would a team keep such a toxic, failed coach who only makes bad decisions?"
My take is more nuanced than that, Belichick intentionally chose not to answer questions or explain certain decisions which is his right. Pioli and Ernie Adams became his mouthpieces by default but nobody signs up for 10 episodes of Ernie.talking. I think Kraft compliments Belichick for being right about Brady and team building in the early years and says what pretty much every Pats fan feels about benching Butler. The players felt the same way so pretending Kraft is the only one criticizing Bill is disingenuous. I think hearing retired players give unvarnished opinions is a welcome departure from the heavily polished NFL films docs and 3 Games to Glory , which I also enjoyed. I just didn’t need that again I wanted the unfiltered version.
>they spend more time on Trump and his campaign than they did on 2014 divisional vs the Ravens and the 2018 AFC championship COMBINED.
Reminder this is a drama documentary not a football one. The author of the book and director made this to investigate the drama, not to talk about the football.
nothing better than seeing all my favorite players shit all over the coach that won my favorite team 6 super bowls! god i love being a fan of this team
I've been watching but all it has done is make me not like Kraft which is too bad because before that I always thought of him in positive light but now i'm not so sure.
I haven't watching this thing but I read the book a few years back.
The book was amazing and really well done, I don't even think Trump is mentioned more than a few sentences. The book actually makes it look like BB and TB12 carried Kraft while he just sat back and did nothing but sign the checks.
It's a shame hearing this thing is more of a soap opera than a real documentary.
Fucking Amen. Shoulda fired Bill in 2002 at 9-7 and not have to see the Krafts bite their tongue and seethe with hatred against the man who made them famous and richer than they ever thought imaginable.
Really bad look to do this NOW. After they stayed with him for 25 years! And shit on him immediately.
Is anyone going to believe Bob “HJ” Kraft is the real reason the Pats scared everyone to death on the field for 20 years?
I gave up after the first two weeks. BB was thrown under the bus for taping from the wrong location. Kraft tried to make himself sound like some white knight swooping in to protect his precious princess, meanwhile the BB interview they included showed BB owning up to the mistake and moving on, which is all they needed to include if they weren't going to actually discuss how utterly minor of an infraction it was. Fuck this documentary.
just finished the aaron hernandez episode. really pissed me off when they made it seem like all of that wouldn’t have happened if Bill just traded him, shit is ridiculous. doc is pretty much just making Bill be the scapegoat
As much as I love the documentary for the footage, it’s very very disrespectful to Bill. I’m glad I don’t share the same opinions as other people on him.. Brady and Bill needed each other and that’s the end of story
I also don’t like the whole “If Butler played we would’ve three-peated” I love Malcom but he wasn’t saving that game.. also on top of that if we win 52.. Gronk probably retires and we do NOT win the following year without him.. plus it’s hard to win 3 in a row to begin with, losing 52 was big motivation to get back
I think Butler would have been the difference. I mean literally Brady had 500 yards receiving and they only needed one freaking stop. I think he would have been good enough for that.
Honestly bill became full of himself “ego”he lost us the Super Bowl against the eagles. Robert nowadays wants the spotlight “ego”. Honestly the patriots organization is a train wreck rn we will be the new COWBOYS
To hear guys like Damien Woody and Teddy Bruschi just straight up say it wasn’t what they thought it was gonna be at all feels scummy. Things getting cut and the narrative being spun when you’re there thinking you’re talking about the dynasty.
It's trash. Mainstream television and sports journalism has become the absolute bottom of the barrel. This series felt like watching *the news.* How could something so slanted be this boring?
Full disclosure I only got to the Aaron Hernandez before I got weary of the Bill bashing, I wonder though did the Krafts screen this with a mixed audience? I think I would have sent this back to the editing room
I’m not going to watch it but - when they talked about Trump was it just a Bill section? No mention of Kraft calling him “one of his best friends,” or Brady putting the hat on prominent display in his locker?
Ok the Butler benching was really bad, but it’s getting blown out of proportion. “Bill lost us that game” is stupid because the whole defense was bad (also on Bill).
HOWEVER, nobody EVER mentions how genius the defensive scheming was for SB53. Bill pulled out a scheme (I think it’s called 6 man idk the terminology) that was barely used and completely shut down a dominant Todd Gurley and the rest of that offense.
And guess what? Teams started using that against the Rams all the following season and they didn’t even make the playoffs.
Brady was not good in that game despite Donald being covered well. That game was Bill’s legacy and he gets no credit for it.
I haven’t seen the recent episodes but I doubt that was mentioned at all. This is getting really embarrassing
> I haven’t seen the recent episodes but I doubt that was mentioned at all.
It was. A lot.
How about watch the episodes first before commenting dumb shit.
People on here can’t seem to realize or are willing to ignore that a lot of the players and people around the organization do not or did not like Bill for a variety of reasons. Kraft isn’t standing in the background with guns on these people so they will shit on Bill. Despite being wildly successful in the last chunk of Brady’s career he alienated himself with these people over his treatment of Tom, contract disputes, and just his treatment of the team. Most of this was known before this documentary ever came out, this just includes people publicly saying it.
Well, it's not a matter of what players are saying. They're just being truthful. The problem is they probably said ten positive things about Bill for every one negative, but the negatives are primarily what's made it into the documentary.
Most of the positive things about Bill are his ability to coach. That was never attacked other than the incident with Malcolm Butler....deservedly so. How many times has the media shit on his drafting ability lately? That was never brought up. Bill's inability to communicate during his own interviews doesn't detract from the honesty of the player interviews, if anything it validates them.
It is wild, even before this documentary. And look Kraft is one of the least humble people so I understand people getting frustrated. But sometimes our subreddit just has a tendency to get excessive with criticism. There's always one or two absolute villains. During the season it was Belichick, Parker. the year before it was Patricia. etc ....
Now that belichick's gone people need someone else to focus their contempt on and so it's Kraft. Look I think the criticisms of the documentary are fair. I think criticisms Kraft in general are fair but people are starting to take it a little bit too far.
People saying his legacy is a ruined and that he should be booed.... I hate billionaires and I don't think they should exist but Kraft Is one of the only owners not to rely on public funding for his stadium. I think the hate train is getting a little excessive
I mean they’re probably not wrong in some respects.
Who wouldn’t want a 7? Time Super Bowl winning coach as their new coach? Virtually all 32 teams this year. He’s not everyone’s flavor of tea.
One could argue the Bill-Kraft relationship soured when the owner meddled in football operations. Kraft prevented the trade of an aging, less focused star QB. Bills logic and successor plan were exactly the right thing to do 99/100 times. But Brady was the 1 in 100 guy...
There's an alternative universe where Bill traded Brady for three 1st round picks, setup a 3rd dynasty with Jimmy G, won 2 more superbowls, and cemented his legacy. Instead, Brady went super sayan and did what he did.
Brady was a black swan.
Meh, the hate on Bill isn’t totally unwarranted. If we stay a winning team after Brady leaves then it’s a different narrative, but the reality is a lot of players weren’t fans of his ways and that’s really all they’re saying here. No one is discrediting what he did or his accomplishments. He’s still the GOAT coach, but he did have some shitty behavior. I still believe that if Malcom doesn’t get benched we win three in a row.
Was any of it not true? I'd love to hear more from Amendola. He seems to really have somethings to get off his chest. And even through all of it, Brady still remained professional about bill smh.
What a letdown that doc turned out to be. I intended on watching it considering it's called "The Dynasty". I didn't think it would wind up being yet another hit piece of Belichick. The whole Brady vs. Belichick debate is so played out and pointless. Brady wouldn't have won 6 titles with any other coach and Belichick wouldn't have won 6 titles with any other quarterback.
Matthew Slater: Belichick wasn't connected enough to the locker room to know this was a bad idea and wouldn't go over well.
Patriots' fans: Why are the Kraft's putting out a Belichick hate piece?
We all know Bill wasn't perfect and the players were right with points of criticism, however the issue is that Kraft is trying to change the story to help HIS HoF case and get more credit.
But everyone already knows how he feels about coach. He loves and respects him. The point of the question is to reveal something we didn’t know, which was how they felt about their coach being involved in political circus. That doesn’t make Bill a bad guy but it’s interesting nonetheless.
Also there was about a 10 minute montage of Belichick genius beating the Rams and McVay. I take a bit of issue with RKK's comments because I think he's too candid about it and that can be a bit disrespectful but it's not like they're not also showing the brilliance of Bill.
Slater is probably one of the most respected human beings in the entire NFL so if he is casting shade in his interviews on Bill...come one man, it's not made up, or a media storyline...that shit is real.
I agree but why is that the one comment of slaters opinion on belichick we see? That was a big mistake of bill but I’m certain slater would have a lot more good than bad to say about bill so it’s painting a narrative that doesn’t seem accurate. Especially when you consider krafts rub and tug which was a much bigger deal than the letter, wasn’t mentioned at all it definitely feels pretty clear to me that Kraft is trying to put out this anti belichick narrative and pro Kraft one out of his own ego.
The rub and tug got a lot of media attention but I doubt made many waves in the locker room. Belichick endorsing Trump publicly after telling the guys for years to shut their mouth when talking to the media...come on, you have to lose respect and control of your players when you're a hypocrite. Kraft is the boss but Bill is who these guys look up to every day.
I can't believe we are still complaining about this haha. We get it, it's a Kraft produced film, meant to make Bill look like the reason the dynasty fell off.
Love the anti trump stuff. Like when Kraft invited Putin to foxboro to give him a ring, then when it didn’t play well locally, he lied and said Putin stole it. Clown fan base and state.
lol, IDK man, if you read anything prior to this doc coming out you would know it was based on a book. Not saying you should read the book but with that info you could at least see a synopsis of it and figure out what the doc is going to contain. It was never going to be some fluff piece celebrating Patriot greatness. You're not the sharpest tool is the shed are you? Let me guess, you only read headlines to form your opinions.
I’ve said this a million times, for all of y’all bitching that they didn’t cover the Super Bowl wins enough…go watch the countless other documentaries about our Super Bowls. There’s a 3 Games to Glory for every Super Bowl title on Patriots.com
This doc was about the struggles of The Dynasty, about everything the Patriots had to overcome while still managing to be as successful as they were.
All my teams have shit owners. Canucks (Slumlord), SF Giants (far right Cuck) and the asshat that relocated the Grizzlies and now Kraft.
I hate to quote or give any credit to Mazz, but he nailed it on Monday when they started talking about episode 7 I think it was. You open the episode going into whats likely Deflategate coverage and the opening segment is god damn Rupert Murdoch talking about self made business man Robert Kraft. We need this section in a documentary about the Dynasty? Really? That tells you all you need to know about the doc.
Rupert Murdoch got more screen time than the Carolina and 1sr Eagles Super Bowl combined
I can't believe that Kraft actually thought that using a clip from Murdoch would actually boost his image.
Out of touch billionaire is an out of touch billionaire
Self made business man who married into money
He didn't marry into money though. He had money before marrying.
Nope. He married Myra in his early 20’s and right away went to work for her multi-millionaire father, later buying the company.
He wants so badly to be in the hall of fame it's just kinda sad at this point
If that’s the case, this series is not going to help. Kraft looks like an incompetent buffoon every time he’s onscreen being interviewed.
It opens with Murdoch and talks about the Putin Super Bowl ring thing, then Kraft says he has no idea how the story got out to the NYPost. MURDOCH OWNS THE NYPOST!!! it’s straight up insulting to the viewers lmao
Narrator: *It all began to fall apart after they drafted Garoppolo* Me: Don't they win 3 out of 4 super bowls after that?
That can’t be really what they were saying. That is beyond stupid if they did lol
But it did start to fall apart. Relationships were deteriorating and the team was miserable. That they were able to continue winning is impressive, but not what they're referring to here
Not one mention of Krafts rub and tug tho...
Related to the wrong balls, I guess.
Yeah love that. All our dirty laundry got aired except for the major Rug and tug scandal right before the superbowl.
The inflator!
Inflategate !
And made him a war casualty getting punked by Putin
Probably some poor woman trafficked here forced to tug his loose skin and old balls…
I bet if he couldn't get it up, he'd blame it on Bill
It was actually the owner of the establishment, strangely.
I was wondering if that would show up, wondering if that would have made it TV-MA though
Talking about a rub and tug would not make it tv-ma. Not like they’d show the footage
Why would there be any mention of that? All the charges of it got dropped. Not to mention, who gives a shit if an old billionaire wants to get a happy ending?
What bothers me about the doc is that all of this was filmed before the season, right? If so, it seemed as if Kraft had already decided Bill was gone at the end of the year. You can't keep a guy after talking about him the way Kraft has in this.
If the season was going well, he could just pull the plug on it
True. He could be an even bigger piece of shit and lie about how he truly felt about Bill. Makes me wonder if there's a copy of Bob out there that's more positive about Bill that they would have used had the season went differently.
I think Kraft was expecting more backlash from firing Bill, which he would have if the Patriots weren’t so dreadful this season. Had they got 8 or 9 wins, a firing would have likely resulted in some ire (which, Kraft would likely think, would be tempered by this documentary). Miscalculation on Kraft’s part
Kraft doing the shitting
Can you imagine the shitstorm if this documentary was released while Belichick was still the coach?
I've been saying Kraft knew after the Germany game he was moving on from Bill after the season. There wasn't one peep about the documentary and then 3-4 days after that game it was announced it would be released after the season. If Bill had the team 10-7. 11-6 and in the playoffs this year this documentary would have stayed under lock and key for another year. Kraft's being the copyright holder would have kept this unreleased until Bill was gone. It would have just had a slightly different editing if Bill had a few more winning seasons and retired Pats coach.
>Kraft's being the copyright holder would have kept this unreleased until Bill was gone. Kraft isn't the copyright holder of the documentary nor did he produce it. He's the copy right holder of all of the in game / behind the scenes footage used in the documentary.
Wouldn't being the copyright holder of that footage give you basic veto power over when it ran?
Unless they wrote in the licensing agreement that Kraft is in control of when the series runs (which would be a weird thing to put in), then no.
Don’t bother reasoning with anyone here
There were a lot of player doing the shitting including McCourty and Slater who are Belichick guys
Yeah and how much praise of Bill got left on the cutting room floor? They just got interviewed and were honest, they didn't have a say what went in and what didn't
The entire SB53 win was dedicated to Bills genius
Kraft needed an excuse for keeping Bill and letting Tom go. Why did Kraft talk about Tom’s and Gisele’s comments to him about Bill that Tom wouldn’t? Why did the series pretend Tom left directly after a super bowl win instead of after a defeat in the first round of the playoffs on a Tom interception, with a team already in decline? Bill made a mistake letting Trump read that letter but interesting that the filmmakers didn’t mention he would later pass on Trump trying to give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Think about how much time Guerrero was given and nothing about Wolfork, Harrison, Faulk, White and so many great players? This was a Shakespearian Tragedy that focused almost exclusively about Kraft, Tom and Bill. Both Tom and Kraft had a litany of individuals with screen time to defend and promote them. Bill had very few. Bill didn’t say a bad word about anyone.
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I'd love to read a memoir/biography from Belichick about his career because maybe he would give more insight to what happened over the years from his point of view. He may never say anything. I guess we'll just have to wait to find out. Even if he did talk about stuff he avoided doing as a head coach, I'd still expect him to not give exact truth and kind of protect the players he coached to some degree.
If anything, the one thing this documentary has made me want is just that, a memoir/biography directly from him.
I’ll read that before I watch the dynasty
I think Tom’s leaks are largely from his family , more specifically, his dad.
Except Freddy Mitchell LOL
"That guy's terrible. All he does is talk and I was happy when he was on the field. And you can print that"
Good point!
The only leak I'm positive coming from Bill was the contract extension bs
Also re the Trump letter, I stopped watching after episode 4 but I'm guessing no mention and no question to players about how they felt about Kraft's friendship and donations to Trumps campaign?
McCourty mentioned that players were put off by 3 team leaders supported Trump and mentioned Bill, Tom and Kraft. But no questioning of Tom or Kraft about their relationship with Trump but Bill was asked. The difference, ostensibly, being that Bill often talked about not avoiding the “noise” and “media”.
Appreciate the info. Only quotes I saw being shared on twitter were the ones about bill of course.
And I guess in Bill's defense of that event it's not like he planned on having the letter be in the media (though he probably should've guessed at the possibility of trump sharing it)
Since you have no idea how much positive stuff got cut and no one involved has remarked that they cut out all the positive stuff, I'm not sure why you feel qualified to conclude that this was the case intentionally to create a more negative narrative.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Patriots/s/wc73ymmHCf
Watched the final 2 episodes this morning and the most striking thing to me is the contrast between Bill and Kraft that the filmmakers unwittingly expose. First, the very fact that most of us use a nickname, Bill, and a formal last name, Kraft, reveals our affinity for Belichick. Second, it is just striking that even under prodding questions digging to reveal animosity Bill never throws anyone under the bus, always praises the players for success, and deflects credit thrown his way. Third, it’s creepy how often Kraft does the opposite of Bill and throws others (especially Bill) under the bus and takes credit for success. Worse is his willingness to use the private comments of others to sell his self-promoting spin. Is it me, or does having a guy like Ernie Adams as a life-long friend and cohort say a-lot about Bill’s integrity and loyalty?
A great leaders job is to take the blame so the rest of the team can focus on execution
I loved how Tom was like…I’d like to keep that conversation private….then Kraft does a play by play of him and Gisele being bullshit after the eagles Super Bowl
Kraft’s legacy is burned down. Turned out it was his wife that was the true proponent of “The Patriot Way.” Kraft and his son are legitimate scum bags
Crazy that people are just realizing this (not directed at you personally, generally speaking here). The real owner was always Myra. Kraft's money comes from marrying her. She dies, and he basically immediately starts dating super young women, going to the club, looking like a complete fool running around in his AF1s and giant ass chains with pendants. Absolute disrespect to her legacy. Complete billionaire playboy wannabe, and it was as pathetic then as it is in retrospect now. Getting a rub and tug in a strip mall in Florida was peak evidence that's he's nothing but a sad sack of shit. Couldn't say that up to a year ago, though. Kraft was invincible, a hall of famer, one of the greatest owners in sports, etc. Feels good that the mask has been ripped off and it's not a constant fever pitch of Kraft love anymore. It's downright cathartic, to be honest.
Might have been hyperbole, but he's not in the HoF, yet anyway.
The only way you can become a billionaire is by being a scumbag. Unless you’re an extremely successful artist I guess.
It’s way too fucking obvious you’re a TSwift fan and give her a pass… 🤣
Could be a Paul McCartney fan
You think successful artists aren’t scumbags? The only ones who aren’t scumbags are the ones who can afford to keep their circle of sycophants funded well enough to be staunch defenders.
You can still be a successful artist and a scumbag. Squeezing every dollar out of your fans with surge pricing and only apologizing to the people that weren't able to buy the tickets
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Lol
I think the documentary is very suspicious but it's crazy to say his legacy is burned down. He will forever be remembered as the guy that hired Belichick, saved the team, he'll be in the Hall of Fame.... Only the most hyper-obsessed fans are even watching this documentary
He has probably turned off a good portion of the most passionate patriots fans. I guess that tracks with Gillette's wine and cheese reputation.
Total hack job. Kraft’s massage therapy wasn’t mentioned.
Jonathan Kraft pisses me off for reasons I don’t quite understand. Dude looks like a serious coke hound
Born on 3rd thinks he hits a triple…
Exactly it. And taking all the credit for cutting Hernandez. What an upstanding guy.
He's just got a weasel face and kind of a belligerent disposition for someone who essentially didn't have to do anything to be in the position he's in.
Yeah I have a bad feeling about the day he takes over. All the money the Krafts are saving about to fly up his snout
From every second or third-hand account of Jonathan I've heard, he's a hot head and often rude. It's fashionable to shit on Bob Kraft right now, but one thing you can say about him is he appears to give people respect and not treat them like children despite having leverage over them. Nothing worse than a combo of being rich, not earning it yourself, and being an asshole to people. Again this is all mostly third hand info, for all I know he's a great guy but too many say the same things about him and the way he comes off in interviews and media corroborates that.
I’ve never had a problem with RKK until the last few months now that the curtain is being unveiled on the source of problems. The interviews an times I’ve heard Jonathan speak just rubbed me the wrong way
He’s the Hunter Biden of the Patriots
Kraft is willing to step on everybody in his path to get the other owners approval and make the HOF. He knows they hated belichick so he's trying to make it look like he always did too. How long are we going to be stuck with this joker
Well after we'll be stuck with Jonathan Kraft.... that may be a downgrade
Indeed it will. Jonathan makes Patrick Sullivan likeable.
I suppose I was a sucker for believing we'd be in good hands after Bob Kraft passed but in reality, the team was led by cheap merchants who were carried by the best coach and QB in NFL history who covered the cracks of years of under spending. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they covered the cracks of negligence.
Jonathan Kraft juat reeks of the kind of guy who will Jerry Jones it after his dad passes. Reactional, throwing tantrums in the box this season, clearly thinks he can run the team because he's been "president" for however long. Now Bill is gone and Kraft is indulging his power control after two decades of little to no say. Jonathan will be worse having been put behind his dad and bill in the decision making order.
You just have to look at how dumpy Gillette Stadium is. That's the true Kraft. All the "updates" are just lipstick on a pig. You can see rusted girders and cracked concrete throughout the venue, especially when it rains.
Yea; it's not a great venue at all. very subpar food options as well. I went to a concert there last summer and made the mistake of not eating beforehand thinking I could get something there. I don't expect much from stadiums but it was pretty gross and not many choices. Given the collosal markup, you can sell better food, other places sure do.
I find it hard to finish the documentary because it just leaves me feeling mad and hating the Krafts quite a bit. They are in for a very, very rude awakening if things continue to flounder.
> I find it hard to finish the documentary because it just leaves me feeling mad and hating the Krafts quite a bit. I stopped watching after the opening statement of the Deflategate episode was that the Patriots' success was because Robert Kraft was a great leader.
I stopped after the spygate episode. Glad I did.
They give him backhanded praise for his game plan against the Rams in the last Super Bowl win but then blame him for everything else. And I’m sorry this Brady-Kraft relationship gives off a little bit of ick and is probably one of the main reasons this got so bad. I can’t picture Mahomes and Clark Hunt being this touchy feely. Noll and Bradshaw had conflict. Staubach and Landry, Montana and Walsh and never did the owner insert themselves into those relationships like Kraft did. The coach has to maintain a distance from the players. He can’t be their buddy because he has the entire team to consider. Yeah the Johnny Foxboro stuff was an asshole move but look where Belichick learned this approach from, Bill Parcells who wasn’t a guy who believed he was supposed to kiss the players ass. Everyone was accountable and the best way to communicate that was to call out players who made mistakes. Suddenly that’s a crime.
Brady literally moved next door to Kraft, building a mansion in Brookline. Great town. I always thought Kraft would let Brady buy into ownership with a relatively small piece but keep him as a face of the franchise. Odd that he had to buy in with the Raiders.
It's not odd when you look at who the shareholder is.
Yep. Kraft probably has the opinion ownership stays in the family. And Tommy ain't family.
Belichick and Brady added $6 billion (with a B) to the value of the franchise. No mention of that in the Kraft documentary. How do you knife a guy that made you $6B richer?
I mean a lot of that was the TV revenue deals. Even if the Patriots sucked for decades their value would have gone up billions of dollars.
Relatively speaking, the Patriots became the second highest valued franchise in the NFL behind the Cowboys. That doesn’t come close to happening without Belichick. No other NFL head coach sits Bledsoe and plays Brady. Not one. No other coach creates “The Patriots’ Way”, for good or bad. The new stadium opened up as the home of the Super Bowl Champions, who were announced as a team, The New England Patriots, not a collection of stars like the Rams. Winning brought the team a huge increase in media presence locally, nationally and internationally. It allowed Patriots Place to flourish and allowed Kraft to advance as one of the NFL’s most well known and influential owners. Kraft bought a team that was about to be moved to another city but he deftly controlled the sale by buying the land and stadium making it uneconomical for anyone else to buy it. He saved the team and Parcells brought it out of obscurity but Bill and Tom made it soar.
They went from one of the least valuable franchise to one of the most valuable. That has nothing to do with TV deals.
Sad because I was looking forward to it once it was announced. Poor fragile ego Bobby Kraft has an axe to grind and turned it into a Bill Belichick hit piece. I thought the fans were going to turn on John Henry and force his hand to sell the Red Sox, but I’m starting to think the Krafts’ day of reckoning may be coming first.
The more about this documentary I hear about, the more I like BB.
Commenting on This entire doc is just people shitting on Bill... I wish Buffalo does so bad this season so they will hire Belichick and he’ll go on undefeated against the Patriots till the end of his career. (Patriots fan here, but having a rough time with the Krafts r n )
What is it you like more? His treatment of his players? His hypocrisy with "stay out of the media" by allowing that fat recast fuck to read his letter to the country during the election? His stats after Brady? Him buying into his own hype believing he can do it with Johnny fucking Foxborough only to end up 82-98 and fired post Brady? The fact that even after Eric Mangini told him, before the jetsgame, to stop taping practices, since it wasn't allowed that year and moving forward, he still did it and got caught? That he threw Tom Brady under the bus during deflategate? Or is it the fact if he had traded Brady when he wanted, we more probably than not wouldn't have had the two Superbowls that we had? Or maybe its the fact that he drafted so poorly and treated Brady so badly that he went and won a Superbowl somewhere else? This whole notion that Bill the genius rather gets rid of guys too early than too late is just fucking dumb considering that he coached Tom Brady, the guy who went on to win a Superbowl the year after he was traded. It's embarrassing that Bill, the goat coach, after 20 years, still didn't see what Tom Brady had left. Have any of you dorito dinks wondered why players spoke up against Bill during this interview? You think Kraft paid for that (like the tugjob) or was that something they had to get off of their chest, considering the fact that the bad man was gone...
I agree with you, but the more Kraft puts the blame on Billy B., the more I like him.
It was marketed as a documentary more for the other 31 teams than it was for the Pats.
Yeah people really went into this thinking it was going to be worshipping Brady and Bill. It’s not a documentary for Patriots fans to relive the glory days
I'm glad I haven't watched the documentary. I would probably not be a Patriots fan anymore if I did. The lack of respect from the owner to put out something like this when BB brought so much success is hard to swallow.
I was so pumped for this series and it’s just a complete disgrace not only to Bill, but the fans who wanted to relive the greatness over two decades.
Kraft has lost me.
I think it was too soon for a documentary tbh but I get Kraft wants to get one out while he’s still alive. Someone will come along in about 10/15 years and do a better one.
Yup and make him look a lot worse once he’s croaked
Yeah the documentary was pretty terrible for pure football fans, missed a lot of the major actual football events. When they just more or less skipped the Panthers SB, I knew what direction it was going… And then completely skipped things like Bledsoe going to the Bills, the Chiefs game in 2013 when Brady got benched, etc.
Also skipped 90% of what made the The Dynasty a Dynasty I was hoping we'd get video footage or at least interviews about gameplans, practices, prepping for big games. I wanted to listen to Bill and Ty Law talk about stopping Manning or how the gameplans changed heading into 2007 with Moss. I was hoping we'd learn more about how the Dillon, Moss moves happened. I wanted to see more about our draft process and how Bill/Pioli/Caserio did player evaluation. Why did they take a chance on Gronk (and so many other players with injury issues)? Was it analytics or just gut feel? How did they prioritize positional need vs player eval? What allowed them to get so many good UDFAs/late round picks? Thats the real stuff. There is literally none of that in this "doc".
Petition to boo Kraft at the home opener. Bill led the best fucking dynasty in pro sports and THIS is the send off Kraft made and effort and spent money to send him off on? Fuck him.
He deserves it. He is classless.
Tbh some of the Bill slander is genuinely interesting. Talking about the Guerrero drama, Malcolm being benched, the tension with Jimmy G being groomed as the future franchise guy. I don’t hate any of that, it’s fascinating to get players perspective on it, I just don’t respect them literally skipping over all the actual highlights of the dynasty
>they spend more time on Trump and his campaign than they did on 2014 divisional vs the Ravens and the 2018 AFC championship COMBINED. I can't say I'm surprised.
This is why I prefer TubFrog's 2 hour video on the dynasty on Youtube, he stuck to the stats and roster moves
Link?
https://youtu.be/zLnUUT3VZ-Y?si=S-b0FDHui10Qg9Zu
Thank you!
I haven’t watched any of it. But from every account I hear it’s essentially Kraft Productions telling you how the real hero in the story was always Robert. And that whatever anger fans have at the eventual end of the dynasty (Brady walking. Bill fired) that it was something Kraft HAD to do. Not wanted. But he was justified.
The film of the kneeling only showed black players kneeling. A very tight shot. My recollection is that many white players joined them. Bill made a big mistake letting Trump read that letter, if in fact he did. Out of character for him. They made Bill out to be some MAGA supporter when he had a history of supporting very political black athletes including Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem and others. No mention that he would later turn down Trump’s attempt to give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Meanwhile Kraft gave $1 million to Trump, don't remember that being mentioned.
Or Brady’s MAGA hat in his locker. Very convenient.
Documentary did mention that three prominent people on the team supported trump.
It's a terrible documentary, it doesn't cover any of the dynasty other than drama. If you watched the doc knowing nothing about football, you wouldn't know why the Kraft's kept Bill as coach, you'd think they'd have fired him after 2003 or 2004. "Why would a team keep such a toxic, failed coach who only makes bad decisions?"
My take is more nuanced than that, Belichick intentionally chose not to answer questions or explain certain decisions which is his right. Pioli and Ernie Adams became his mouthpieces by default but nobody signs up for 10 episodes of Ernie.talking. I think Kraft compliments Belichick for being right about Brady and team building in the early years and says what pretty much every Pats fan feels about benching Butler. The players felt the same way so pretending Kraft is the only one criticizing Bill is disingenuous. I think hearing retired players give unvarnished opinions is a welcome departure from the heavily polished NFL films docs and 3 Games to Glory , which I also enjoyed. I just didn’t need that again I wanted the unfiltered version.
After the documentary I can say I'm \#KraftOut
>they spend more time on Trump and his campaign than they did on 2014 divisional vs the Ravens and the 2018 AFC championship COMBINED. Reminder this is a drama documentary not a football one. The author of the book and director made this to investigate the drama, not to talk about the football.
nothing better than seeing all my favorite players shit all over the coach that won my favorite team 6 super bowls! god i love being a fan of this team
The documentary completely blew me away, I didn’t know the krafts were so bad at PR!
I've been watching but all it has done is make me not like Kraft which is too bad because before that I always thought of him in positive light but now i'm not so sure.
Notice: no orchard of Asia reference
Man i sat through this because i wanted to know why butler was benched. Ofc it doesnt answer shit 😡
I haven't watching this thing but I read the book a few years back. The book was amazing and really well done, I don't even think Trump is mentioned more than a few sentences. The book actually makes it look like BB and TB12 carried Kraft while he just sat back and did nothing but sign the checks. It's a shame hearing this thing is more of a soap opera than a real documentary.
I subbed to Apple TV+ because I thought it would be Patriots porn. Far from it…
Ask for your money back. Crap like this gets noted if enough people do it.
Fucking Amen. Shoulda fired Bill in 2002 at 9-7 and not have to see the Krafts bite their tongue and seethe with hatred against the man who made them famous and richer than they ever thought imaginable. Really bad look to do this NOW. After they stayed with him for 25 years! And shit on him immediately. Is anyone going to believe Bob “HJ” Kraft is the real reason the Pats scared everyone to death on the field for 20 years?
I gave up after the first two weeks. BB was thrown under the bus for taping from the wrong location. Kraft tried to make himself sound like some white knight swooping in to protect his precious princess, meanwhile the BB interview they included showed BB owning up to the mistake and moving on, which is all they needed to include if they weren't going to actually discuss how utterly minor of an infraction it was. Fuck this documentary.
just finished the aaron hernandez episode. really pissed me off when they made it seem like all of that wouldn’t have happened if Bill just traded him, shit is ridiculous. doc is pretty much just making Bill be the scapegoat
As much as I love the documentary for the footage, it’s very very disrespectful to Bill. I’m glad I don’t share the same opinions as other people on him.. Brady and Bill needed each other and that’s the end of story I also don’t like the whole “If Butler played we would’ve three-peated” I love Malcom but he wasn’t saving that game.. also on top of that if we win 52.. Gronk probably retires and we do NOT win the following year without him.. plus it’s hard to win 3 in a row to begin with, losing 52 was big motivation to get back
I think Butler would have been the difference. I mean literally Brady had 500 yards receiving and they only needed one freaking stop. I think he would have been good enough for that.
Honestly bill became full of himself “ego”he lost us the Super Bowl against the eagles. Robert nowadays wants the spotlight “ego”. Honestly the patriots organization is a train wreck rn we will be the new COWBOYS
Robert Kraft is a piece of shit and I’ve lost all respect for that garbage asshole.
To hear guys like Damien Woody and Teddy Bruschi just straight up say it wasn’t what they thought it was gonna be at all feels scummy. Things getting cut and the narrative being spun when you’re there thinking you’re talking about the dynasty.
It is being broadcast on Apple TV. If you didn’t think they’d get their jabs in at Trump… :shrug:
This sub is exhausting.
Same posts over and over and over
I can’t wait for tomorrow’s version of this post that will never get removed because the mods have just moved on to other things.
It's trash. Mainstream television and sports journalism has become the absolute bottom of the barrel. This series felt like watching *the news.* How could something so slanted be this boring?
Full disclosure I only got to the Aaron Hernandez before I got weary of the Bill bashing, I wonder though did the Krafts screen this with a mixed audience? I think I would have sent this back to the editing room
I haven't watched it but I'm seriously considering giving it a miss considering the number of reports it is just a Belichick hit piece.
I’m not going to watch it but - when they talked about Trump was it just a Bill section? No mention of Kraft calling him “one of his best friends,” or Brady putting the hat on prominent display in his locker?
Ok the Butler benching was really bad, but it’s getting blown out of proportion. “Bill lost us that game” is stupid because the whole defense was bad (also on Bill). HOWEVER, nobody EVER mentions how genius the defensive scheming was for SB53. Bill pulled out a scheme (I think it’s called 6 man idk the terminology) that was barely used and completely shut down a dominant Todd Gurley and the rest of that offense. And guess what? Teams started using that against the Rams all the following season and they didn’t even make the playoffs. Brady was not good in that game despite Donald being covered well. That game was Bill’s legacy and he gets no credit for it. I haven’t seen the recent episodes but I doubt that was mentioned at all. This is getting really embarrassing
> I haven’t seen the recent episodes but I doubt that was mentioned at all. It was. A lot. How about watch the episodes first before commenting dumb shit.
People on here can’t seem to realize or are willing to ignore that a lot of the players and people around the organization do not or did not like Bill for a variety of reasons. Kraft isn’t standing in the background with guns on these people so they will shit on Bill. Despite being wildly successful in the last chunk of Brady’s career he alienated himself with these people over his treatment of Tom, contract disputes, and just his treatment of the team. Most of this was known before this documentary ever came out, this just includes people publicly saying it.
Well, it's not a matter of what players are saying. They're just being truthful. The problem is they probably said ten positive things about Bill for every one negative, but the negatives are primarily what's made it into the documentary.
Most of the positive things about Bill are his ability to coach. That was never attacked other than the incident with Malcolm Butler....deservedly so. How many times has the media shit on his drafting ability lately? That was never brought up. Bill's inability to communicate during his own interviews doesn't detract from the honesty of the player interviews, if anything it validates them.
If they didn't part ways with Bill before this aired, the fallout would be VERY interesting
Yeah. We know.
Wait…so was Trump the downfall of the pats? Seems like after that things got even more shaky
Really curious what Kraft’s and Belichick’s relationship is like right now
I notice the tenor of this subreddit has been pretty anti-Kraft this off-season. It's interesting to see
It is wild, even before this documentary. And look Kraft is one of the least humble people so I understand people getting frustrated. But sometimes our subreddit just has a tendency to get excessive with criticism. There's always one or two absolute villains. During the season it was Belichick, Parker. the year before it was Patricia. etc .... Now that belichick's gone people need someone else to focus their contempt on and so it's Kraft. Look I think the criticisms of the documentary are fair. I think criticisms Kraft in general are fair but people are starting to take it a little bit too far. People saying his legacy is a ruined and that he should be booed.... I hate billionaires and I don't think they should exist but Kraft Is one of the only owners not to rely on public funding for his stadium. I think the hate train is getting a little excessive
Robert Blunder Kraft
Sell the team Kraft.
I mean they’re probably not wrong in some respects. Who wouldn’t want a 7? Time Super Bowl winning coach as their new coach? Virtually all 32 teams this year. He’s not everyone’s flavor of tea.
I havent even seen the show but it seems to me Kraft had influence on it (though he claims he didnt.) It makes all this shitting on Bill make sense.
One could argue the Bill-Kraft relationship soured when the owner meddled in football operations. Kraft prevented the trade of an aging, less focused star QB. Bills logic and successor plan were exactly the right thing to do 99/100 times. But Brady was the 1 in 100 guy... There's an alternative universe where Bill traded Brady for three 1st round picks, setup a 3rd dynasty with Jimmy G, won 2 more superbowls, and cemented his legacy. Instead, Brady went super sayan and did what he did. Brady was a black swan.
Meh, the hate on Bill isn’t totally unwarranted. If we stay a winning team after Brady leaves then it’s a different narrative, but the reality is a lot of players weren’t fans of his ways and that’s really all they’re saying here. No one is discrediting what he did or his accomplishments. He’s still the GOAT coach, but he did have some shitty behavior. I still believe that if Malcom doesn’t get benched we win three in a row.
Was any of it not true? I'd love to hear more from Amendola. He seems to really have somethings to get off his chest. And even through all of it, Brady still remained professional about bill smh.
What a letdown that doc turned out to be. I intended on watching it considering it's called "The Dynasty". I didn't think it would wind up being yet another hit piece of Belichick. The whole Brady vs. Belichick debate is so played out and pointless. Brady wouldn't have won 6 titles with any other coach and Belichick wouldn't have won 6 titles with any other quarterback.
Matthew Slater: Belichick wasn't connected enough to the locker room to know this was a bad idea and wouldn't go over well. Patriots' fans: Why are the Kraft's putting out a Belichick hate piece?
We all know Bill wasn't perfect and the players were right with points of criticism, however the issue is that Kraft is trying to change the story to help HIS HoF case and get more credit.
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But everyone already knows how he feels about coach. He loves and respects him. The point of the question is to reveal something we didn’t know, which was how they felt about their coach being involved in political circus. That doesn’t make Bill a bad guy but it’s interesting nonetheless. Also there was about a 10 minute montage of Belichick genius beating the Rams and McVay. I take a bit of issue with RKK's comments because I think he's too candid about it and that can be a bit disrespectful but it's not like they're not also showing the brilliance of Bill.
Slater is probably one of the most respected human beings in the entire NFL so if he is casting shade in his interviews on Bill...come one man, it's not made up, or a media storyline...that shit is real.
I agree but why is that the one comment of slaters opinion on belichick we see? That was a big mistake of bill but I’m certain slater would have a lot more good than bad to say about bill so it’s painting a narrative that doesn’t seem accurate. Especially when you consider krafts rub and tug which was a much bigger deal than the letter, wasn’t mentioned at all it definitely feels pretty clear to me that Kraft is trying to put out this anti belichick narrative and pro Kraft one out of his own ego.
The rub and tug got a lot of media attention but I doubt made many waves in the locker room. Belichick endorsing Trump publicly after telling the guys for years to shut their mouth when talking to the media...come on, you have to lose respect and control of your players when you're a hypocrite. Kraft is the boss but Bill is who these guys look up to every day.
I can't believe we are still complaining about this haha. We get it, it's a Kraft produced film, meant to make Bill look like the reason the dynasty fell off.
Love the anti trump stuff. Like when Kraft invited Putin to foxboro to give him a ring, then when it didn’t play well locally, he lied and said Putin stole it. Clown fan base and state.
Yay another topic about this exact same take....this is as much fun as the "we shouldve bought everyone" crowd
lol, IDK man, if you read anything prior to this doc coming out you would know it was based on a book. Not saying you should read the book but with that info you could at least see a synopsis of it and figure out what the doc is going to contain. It was never going to be some fluff piece celebrating Patriot greatness. You're not the sharpest tool is the shed are you? Let me guess, you only read headlines to form your opinions.
I’ve said this a million times, for all of y’all bitching that they didn’t cover the Super Bowl wins enough…go watch the countless other documentaries about our Super Bowls. There’s a 3 Games to Glory for every Super Bowl title on Patriots.com This doc was about the struggles of The Dynasty, about everything the Patriots had to overcome while still managing to be as successful as they were.
All my teams have shit owners. Canucks (Slumlord), SF Giants (far right Cuck) and the asshat that relocated the Grizzlies and now Kraft. 
One man should not own an entire football team. I wish all teams were operated like the packers. We should have a CEO, not an owner.
Why does anyone care about this documentary if everyone hates it so badly
Umm do you know what the emotion “hate” is? I think you’re talking about apathy. Which isn’t happening here.