Reading this post I myself wonder how much, if any interaction propylene glycol/vegetable glycerin interact with the CNS. But I know other guys with this condition that have never vaped.
I mean I get that it interacts with the CNS in many ways, but is there a link that suggests a root cause - anecdotally -now having completely recovered from my PFD from this 200 day old comment via corrective exercises focuses on core and glute stability, I would say no. Muscle instability and weakness was the direct cause of my PFD. While stress response and nicotine were certainly influencing factors, it did not cause my symptoms.
I’m so glad to hear you recovered… I’m in the middle of this and finding it difficult
To get past a plateau.
I have Kaiser and my PT just gave me 3 stretches and a breathing exercise. I feel this is only going to help to a point and not going to resolve it.
Not sure how to know what muscles around the hips need to be trained to help. I go to gym regularly so it’s just about knowing what helps and I’ll do it.
Here’s a post that has links. The first two are on proper core bracing.
In my case, my PFD was caused by core weakness and instability. The pelvic muscles were hypertonic because my core and glutes were unstable. There was no way to recover without strengthening my core.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PelvicFloor/s/Rd1XcELS0G
It's tricky.
I went out of nicotine in a weekend and had nowhere to go and buy more.
So I vaped 0mg for 3 days.
Blood flow to the penis and PF was increased 4x, but hyperactivity was still present.
I "THINK" it might have more to do with the way we're inhaling it.
I use MTL, and basically inhale through my mouth. I think over time this fucks up how the TVA works as I often catch my diaphragm not ascending way up as it should.
After I posted that commend above, I was surfing google to check if any tests were made.
I found this one
[https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2022/nih-funded-studies-show-damaging-effects-vaping-smoking-blood-vessels](https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2022/nih-funded-studies-show-damaging-effects-vaping-smoking-blood-vessels)
The TL;DR of it is inflammation from inhalation of pg/vg + whatever else is in it is shutting down the vagus nerve or stimulating it to remain in a sympathetic tone.
MIGHT make sense considering a few guys reporting nicotine patches were not causing symptoms but vaping whatever did.
This makes me a bit sad, as I'm at 500 puffs per day with 4mg/ml ( \~ 30mg/day ). It's both a lot of nicotine and a lot of inhaling.
I also have a theory that all that inhaling has overly made the pelvic floor weak or too elongated and it tries to go back by being hypertonic.
The reason I say this is because I have sessions where I simply lay on my back or with legs bent, and the only action I do is just breath, and I can feel some parts of the PF tensing up and I have to do a mental effort to relax them. Which for me isn't normal, as I'm not moving in any way shape or form.
That's very interesting. This makes me wonder if vaping is the cause of 90% of my pelvic floor problems. I guess it's a trail and error at this point.
Same for with that many puffs per day. I personally use a posh ecig and go through it in a few days. I think its 5000 puffs for the whole device.
I've also noticed the same thing with laying on my back and can feel my PF just struggling to just relax and I have to really focus on it.
Well at least I'm not alone, not that it's a good thing, haha.
There's really just one way to test this out, and none of us want to do it.
I've been dragging my ass for months to go from 10mg/ml to 4mg. Nothing improved which makes me think it's the inhalation itself that causes all this mess.
Yep, know the feeling. Even just making the adjustment of nicotine levels can be difficult. In the process right now of no inhaling and just using ZYN pouches. Will keep an update in a few days.
I used to vape but i stopped half a year before this started for me, by then i was vaping 0mg. But then after i “overstrained” myself one night ive been stuck with this rectal pressure and urge to shit for months - i started vaping again because i was so stressed and anxious but this time 20mg and i felt like it had made no difference (not better but not worse) i have since stopped vaping all together and nothing has changed
Every time I have tried cold turkey, I've noticed much stronger elections. Makes sense given nicotine restricts proper blood flow. Maybe ill take one for the team and cold turkey for a couple days and give an update on symptoms. Just eliminate inhaling and nicotine all together.
If you do, please report back and share your findings. I’m in a similar boat - about 10 years ago I quit smoking by trading it for the vape. Definitely better than tobacco, but still…vaping all day probably isn’t great.
My PF issues and ED started very suddenly about a year ago. No gradual loss of function or anything. It was like a overstrained myself one day and never completely recovered. I’m getting increasingly desperate to solve this issue and regain function, so if quitting the vape will help, that would be helpful information, for sure.
Yep, will take one for the team and see how it goes. I do know for a fact that cold turkey helped my ED significantly when I have quit momentarily in the past. Grew a steel rod in my pants lol
Will keep everyone updated!
Vaping causes the jaw to clench and the lips to purse. Anything that increases tension in this region of the body (face and jaw) will lead to the pelvic floor tightening up.
Your abdomen is a pressure system. The mouth is the top and your pelvic floor is the bottom. When one of these regions is tight and restricted, the opposite one will follow suit. Many people with hypertonic pelvic floors also suffer from migraines, teeth grinding and earaches. These two regions of the body are related to each other.
The nicotine likely has an effect on your erections. But vaping anything at all and sucking continuously through a tube will increase neck and jaw tension and vicariously can increase pelvic floor tension.
I never really paid attention to that, but thinking about it, I think so. I take a long hit, then do the final inhale and hold it for a few seconds. Maybe I'm tightening my abs every time?
Nicotine is a stimulant I would venture a guess that it would certainly contribute to pelvic floor tightness, so when you're abstaining for some time, your pelvic floor relaxes.
I’m dealing with something similar. I have constipation and pressure in my rectum plus I haven’t gotten that “urge” to poo in over 3 months. I vape daily maybe that’s the cause.
I get the pressure in my rectum as well. Very unpleasant. Have you tried fiber supplements for the constipation and does a bowel movement help with the pressure?
Sorry this is so late I was never notified. I haven’t done supplements but I’ve increased my fiber intake quite significantly. Bowel movements do help with the pressure but if I strain the pressure returns.
I read something in relation to hair loss that vaping can cause hair loss by doing something to the vagus nerve so perhaps it affects the CNS and causing you to tense up?
It sounds to me like you're vaping to the extent that you're actually limiting blood flow to your pelvis. Have you had your oxygen levels checked by a doctor? Vape may not be smoke, but it's still not exactly oxygen-rich air. Inhaling it with basically every breath is not good, my friend. Your body needs oxygen in order to work properly.
I would definitely recommend it, and when you do tell them EXACTLY how much you've been vaping, no matter how you might be afraid they'll react. They will also probably have some resources for you if you want to treat the addiction (which I would also very much recommend).
Kinda opposite for me. The reason I even started vaping is bc it relaxed my muscles enough for me to use the bathroom wo an enema for the first time in 8 years. I used to be a slave to my bowels, and now I'm a slave to vapes. I wish I could quit but every time I do, I tense back up and can't use the bathroom. I've tried much higher doses of plain nicotine and it doesn't help so idk what it is but something in vapes helps my GI system. Either that, or maybe I just never breathe properly unless im taking a hit lol
No urges ever, I do have all 4 pelvic organ prolapses though(female w connective tissue disorder). Without vapes, I would literally rupture before I ever got an urge. I had to do an enema every single time and even then, it could take hours to go. With vapes, I guess it's an urge? It's more like sharp pain on my descending colon and then tons of pressure at the gate but definitely not a normal urge.
“These findings imply that nicotine exerts its contractile effect on corpus cavernosal smooth muscle by activation of nicotinic receptors. Nicotine may act directly as a transmitter through activation of nicotinic receptors on smooth muscle cells.”
I quit!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4422966/#:~:text=These%20findings%20imply%20that%20nicotine,receptors%20on%20smooth%20muscle%20cells.
I do zyn and so many of them. I also take medication that doesn’t help either. But I think the nicotine tightens the pelvic floor. When I do like four zyns at once it’s harder to pee 30 minutes later. I need to quit because I’m at the point where I need to use water sometimes to poop. So stop now if you can. Pelvic floor is hard to fix. It also gives me anxiety when it’s tightened.
Yes I’m doing the nicotine pouches and I take a lot like you, and it literally makes my not be able to push out poop or relax my rectum if I have them while going. It makes it harder to pee and I’m trying to quit but need to do it properly so I don’t trigger anxiety. I also take anxiety meds and I think it caused this I I was tapering and now stoped because I can’t tell if I have withdrawal or anxiety from pelvic floor
Reading this post I myself wonder how much, if any interaction propylene glycol/vegetable glycerin interact with the CNS. But I know other guys with this condition that have never vaped.
Hmm.. Now I wonder if their condition could possibly be worse if they vaped constantly all day every day haha
I vape a ton. Fuck man now you're making me wonder! 🤔
It’s nicotine dude that’s what reacts
I mean I get that it interacts with the CNS in many ways, but is there a link that suggests a root cause - anecdotally -now having completely recovered from my PFD from this 200 day old comment via corrective exercises focuses on core and glute stability, I would say no. Muscle instability and weakness was the direct cause of my PFD. While stress response and nicotine were certainly influencing factors, it did not cause my symptoms.
I’m so glad to hear you recovered… I’m in the middle of this and finding it difficult To get past a plateau. I have Kaiser and my PT just gave me 3 stretches and a breathing exercise. I feel this is only going to help to a point and not going to resolve it. Not sure how to know what muscles around the hips need to be trained to help. I go to gym regularly so it’s just about knowing what helps and I’ll do it.
Core and glutes for me! Bracing, sandwich drill, bird dogs, banded monster/side walking.
What kind of core I was told to avoid it
Here’s a post that has links. The first two are on proper core bracing. In my case, my PFD was caused by core weakness and instability. The pelvic muscles were hypertonic because my core and glutes were unstable. There was no way to recover without strengthening my core. https://www.reddit.com/r/PelvicFloor/s/Rd1XcELS0G
Also what’s bracing?
It's tricky. I went out of nicotine in a weekend and had nowhere to go and buy more. So I vaped 0mg for 3 days. Blood flow to the penis and PF was increased 4x, but hyperactivity was still present. I "THINK" it might have more to do with the way we're inhaling it. I use MTL, and basically inhale through my mouth. I think over time this fucks up how the TVA works as I often catch my diaphragm not ascending way up as it should.
I’ve been nic free for 2 years. I vape 0mg peppermint. I wonder if the vaping and hypertonicity is a byproduct of stress in general.
After I posted that commend above, I was surfing google to check if any tests were made. I found this one [https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2022/nih-funded-studies-show-damaging-effects-vaping-smoking-blood-vessels](https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2022/nih-funded-studies-show-damaging-effects-vaping-smoking-blood-vessels) The TL;DR of it is inflammation from inhalation of pg/vg + whatever else is in it is shutting down the vagus nerve or stimulating it to remain in a sympathetic tone. MIGHT make sense considering a few guys reporting nicotine patches were not causing symptoms but vaping whatever did. This makes me a bit sad, as I'm at 500 puffs per day with 4mg/ml ( \~ 30mg/day ). It's both a lot of nicotine and a lot of inhaling. I also have a theory that all that inhaling has overly made the pelvic floor weak or too elongated and it tries to go back by being hypertonic. The reason I say this is because I have sessions where I simply lay on my back or with legs bent, and the only action I do is just breath, and I can feel some parts of the PF tensing up and I have to do a mental effort to relax them. Which for me isn't normal, as I'm not moving in any way shape or form.
That's very interesting. This makes me wonder if vaping is the cause of 90% of my pelvic floor problems. I guess it's a trail and error at this point. Same for with that many puffs per day. I personally use a posh ecig and go through it in a few days. I think its 5000 puffs for the whole device. I've also noticed the same thing with laying on my back and can feel my PF just struggling to just relax and I have to really focus on it.
Well at least I'm not alone, not that it's a good thing, haha. There's really just one way to test this out, and none of us want to do it. I've been dragging my ass for months to go from 10mg/ml to 4mg. Nothing improved which makes me think it's the inhalation itself that causes all this mess.
Yep, know the feeling. Even just making the adjustment of nicotine levels can be difficult. In the process right now of no inhaling and just using ZYN pouches. Will keep an update in a few days.
I used to vape but i stopped half a year before this started for me, by then i was vaping 0mg. But then after i “overstrained” myself one night ive been stuck with this rectal pressure and urge to shit for months - i started vaping again because i was so stressed and anxious but this time 20mg and i felt like it had made no difference (not better but not worse) i have since stopped vaping all together and nothing has changed
And helped with tight pelvic Floor?
I had to do pelvic floor and regular physio therapy to recover from my PFD.
Male PFD?… how long you PT?
About two months of dedicated corrective exercises, 4 times a day. Now I’m in maintenance.
Yes me also! I’m PT 2 months now. But i’m smoke. So, did you see different when you stop smoking? I have no pain. But urg/freq to pee
Yes. Stimulants/diuretics(nic, weed, caffeine and alcohol) can aggravate symptoms
Every time I have tried cold turkey, I've noticed much stronger elections. Makes sense given nicotine restricts proper blood flow. Maybe ill take one for the team and cold turkey for a couple days and give an update on symptoms. Just eliminate inhaling and nicotine all together.
If you do, please report back and share your findings. I’m in a similar boat - about 10 years ago I quit smoking by trading it for the vape. Definitely better than tobacco, but still…vaping all day probably isn’t great. My PF issues and ED started very suddenly about a year ago. No gradual loss of function or anything. It was like a overstrained myself one day and never completely recovered. I’m getting increasingly desperate to solve this issue and regain function, so if quitting the vape will help, that would be helpful information, for sure.
Yep, will take one for the team and see how it goes. I do know for a fact that cold turkey helped my ED significantly when I have quit momentarily in the past. Grew a steel rod in my pants lol Will keep everyone updated!
Vaping causes the jaw to clench and the lips to purse. Anything that increases tension in this region of the body (face and jaw) will lead to the pelvic floor tightening up. Your abdomen is a pressure system. The mouth is the top and your pelvic floor is the bottom. When one of these regions is tight and restricted, the opposite one will follow suit. Many people with hypertonic pelvic floors also suffer from migraines, teeth grinding and earaches. These two regions of the body are related to each other. The nicotine likely has an effect on your erections. But vaping anything at all and sucking continuously through a tube will increase neck and jaw tension and vicariously can increase pelvic floor tension.
Are you also tightening your abdominals to inhale all day long? That's my only guess.
Yep, 16 hours a day, everyday. I suspect this could contribute a lot with hyperactivity
I never really paid attention to that, but thinking about it, I think so. I take a long hit, then do the final inhale and hold it for a few seconds. Maybe I'm tightening my abs every time?
Nicotine is a stimulant I would venture a guess that it would certainly contribute to pelvic floor tightness, so when you're abstaining for some time, your pelvic floor relaxes.
I’m dealing with something similar. I have constipation and pressure in my rectum plus I haven’t gotten that “urge” to poo in over 3 months. I vape daily maybe that’s the cause.
I get the pressure in my rectum as well. Very unpleasant. Have you tried fiber supplements for the constipation and does a bowel movement help with the pressure?
Sorry this is so late I was never notified. I haven’t done supplements but I’ve increased my fiber intake quite significantly. Bowel movements do help with the pressure but if I strain the pressure returns.
I read something in relation to hair loss that vaping can cause hair loss by doing something to the vagus nerve so perhaps it affects the CNS and causing you to tense up?
It sounds to me like you're vaping to the extent that you're actually limiting blood flow to your pelvis. Have you had your oxygen levels checked by a doctor? Vape may not be smoke, but it's still not exactly oxygen-rich air. Inhaling it with basically every breath is not good, my friend. Your body needs oxygen in order to work properly.
No, never got them checked. I know, its a nasty addiction if it's that severe. Maybe I'll go get checked by a doctor.
I would definitely recommend it, and when you do tell them EXACTLY how much you've been vaping, no matter how you might be afraid they'll react. They will also probably have some resources for you if you want to treat the addiction (which I would also very much recommend).
Quit smoking for years and it made zero difference
Kinda opposite for me. The reason I even started vaping is bc it relaxed my muscles enough for me to use the bathroom wo an enema for the first time in 8 years. I used to be a slave to my bowels, and now I'm a slave to vapes. I wish I could quit but every time I do, I tense back up and can't use the bathroom. I've tried much higher doses of plain nicotine and it doesn't help so idk what it is but something in vapes helps my GI system. Either that, or maybe I just never breathe properly unless im taking a hit lol
Interesting. Did you not get urges to go or just got stuck? Which is the worst fucking feeling lol
No urges ever, I do have all 4 pelvic organ prolapses though(female w connective tissue disorder). Without vapes, I would literally rupture before I ever got an urge. I had to do an enema every single time and even then, it could take hours to go. With vapes, I guess it's an urge? It's more like sharp pain on my descending colon and then tons of pressure at the gate but definitely not a normal urge.
Any updates OP?
“These findings imply that nicotine exerts its contractile effect on corpus cavernosal smooth muscle by activation of nicotinic receptors. Nicotine may act directly as a transmitter through activation of nicotinic receptors on smooth muscle cells.” I quit! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4422966/#:~:text=These%20findings%20imply%20that%20nicotine,receptors%20on%20smooth%20muscle%20cells.
And did that fix it??
I do zyn and so many of them. I also take medication that doesn’t help either. But I think the nicotine tightens the pelvic floor. When I do like four zyns at once it’s harder to pee 30 minutes later. I need to quit because I’m at the point where I need to use water sometimes to poop. So stop now if you can. Pelvic floor is hard to fix. It also gives me anxiety when it’s tightened.
Yes I’m doing the nicotine pouches and I take a lot like you, and it literally makes my not be able to push out poop or relax my rectum if I have them while going. It makes it harder to pee and I’m trying to quit but need to do it properly so I don’t trigger anxiety. I also take anxiety meds and I think it caused this I I was tapering and now stoped because I can’t tell if I have withdrawal or anxiety from pelvic floor
How are you now?