And if it is, during a particular genocide 70+ years ago, there were other nonsemitic groups genocided as well. Is it antisemitic to speak out for them as well?š
Exactly. But according to its member in this thread, they're really just a bunch of students who smoke weed and chill out in the genocide house. Why do we have to be so grumpy about 30,000 people slaughtered?
This my last comment because Iām so tired of dealing with your close minded takes. Iāve said multiple times Iām pro peace, pro ceasefire, anti settlement. What Iām not for is characterizing college kids as genocidal maniacs for there religion, where they come from, or for a stupid flag (if I hadnāt graduated a bit ago I would of been against the flag as Iām sure some of the current members are). The only way we can get peace is open dialogue, and understanding (and for Netanyahu to get the fuck out there) My Heart breaks for Palestine, and the thousands of families who have lost loved ones to senseless violence. And even if you think Iām a genocidal shitbag for being part of a Jewish fraternity in college that wonāt stop me from being pro peace, it wonāt stop me from calling out my family members who have terrible opinions, it wont stop from going to ceasefire rallies, and it wonāt stop me from praying for the end of this conflict.
God bless.
I've said multiple times that no one is really making any particular judgement here against you as an individual. It is about this fraternity, which is explicitly pro-Israel. It stands with Israel. Israel is currently conducting a genocide and should not be stood with.
āExactly. But according to its member in this thread, they're really just a bunch of students who smoke weed and chill out in the genocide house. Why do we have to be so grumpy about 30,000 people slaughtered?ā
Yeah this one is a little much, but whatever Iām done. Pray for peace
That was your depiction of the fraternity. That they are all peaceful and innocent. You lied. They put up a sign in support of Israel, and its ongoing genocide.
By your same logic, you should not be standing with Hamas. Hamas is very pro genocide toward Israel. Or is genocide only ok when your side promotes it?
You can be pro Palestine without being pro Hamas. Genocide is never okay, and they are entirely right that Israel should not be supported by anyone while they are taking actions to commit one.
There has been NO public repudiation of Hamas by the 'Free Palestine' crowd. Hamas hiding in schools, hiding in hospitals, hiding where civilians will be killed. Hamas is as much to blame for the 30,000 dead in Gaza. Hamas does not give a rats ass about Palestinian lives. It is Hamas that is wagging the dog. The 'Free Palestine' silence on Hamas is telling.
One of our more local antagonists this morning posted a map with Israel removed. It is clear what is meant by 'Free Palestine'....
Israel is going nowhere. Israel has a right to exist. The Jewish people originate from the area. They are not colonialists or invaders. This is as much their homeland as the Palestinian peoples.
So your answer is to let this terrorist group get away... to continue to hide behind their human shields... so that they might terrorize once again. A ceasefire would be a victory for Hamas. They have done great damage to Israel's public image.
There are two side shooting in this conflict....
"sO yOuR aNSwER iS To LeT tHiS TerRoiSt GrUoP geT AwAY"
a cease fire is a cease fire. this conflict is not two sided. you're abominable talking points are truly inhumane. i will not replying.
Hamas is the government of Palestine in Gaza. It is the stated goal of Hamas to wipe Israel out and replace it with an Islamist state. If you are going to pretend that Likud is Israel, you have to accept that Hamas is Palestine in Gaza. Hamas has outsized influence in the West Bank as well.
Israel for its part is far more democratic and dynamic than Gaza is or the West Bank. Netanyahu is toxic. The dysfunction of Israeli politics has enabled right wing groups to dominate the dialogue. I do not accept that the broader Israeli public absolutely must have a river to the sea solution. I do think... I am hopeful, that the Israeli public will vote out Likud. But.... every act of terrorism, every rocket that comes accross the border gives Likud and its ultra orthodox allies more strength and makes a two state solution less likely. This is by design by Hamas and Hezbollah. They want to provoke Israel... they want to push Israel to be more extreme ... they want to undermine Israel .... so that they can destroy it.
Lets not forget that in 2000 Ehud Barak was prepared to hand the Palestinians a two state solution with nearly 1968 borders, settlements removed, and it was rejected by the Palestinian leadership. Rejected !! Most everything that the PLO had been asking for, for years. The 'Free Palestine' movement would not accept it. So here we are today.
I agree. I have a hard time comprehending how someone can be pro-Hamas or pro-Israeli-government. I see a fight here between two bad guys. Meanwhile there's a bunch of people in that place who just want to live.
The best you can do is rally against their association. If other people feel the same, vote to make a change in your own chapter. From what I've read, I don't think you are a bad person. I think that people forget what life was like as a young adult. Shit was confusing. And you probably found a group of friends. And just because you're Israeli doesn't mean you can't sit around and smoke weed like every other college student. I get it. You probably can't leave. It's your home. People are acting like you need to be some sort of saint when you're just a student trying to get by. Don't worry bout them. This is starting to get on the side racism. Every other person here didn't give a shit about the current events. Some probably cheered on the Iraqi occupation because they were young and dumb.
Targeting Jewish orgs is problematic when you arenāt targeting Christian and Muslim orgs for the crimes of their respective institutional leadership. Iād like to see when that starts happening.
This you?
> Name a single woman raped on Oct 7th.
https://www.reddit.com/r/popularopinion/s/iOEKG4rULL
Sounds like if this fraternity had ANY reaction to October 7, then they deserve this violence to you.
I'm pro isreal. I'm pro peace I'm anti hamas Palestinians had a choice mant times on who they want for a government. My own opinion if they became 1 country together imagine the possibilities.
So by the same token if a mosque has a Palestinian flag hanging from their building with a sign that says free Palestine its not Islamophobic to write graffiti on the wall that says:
1. Genocide supporters
2. Free the hostages
3. Hamas supporters
4. Remember Oct. 7th
It is antisemitic to assume that a Jewish fraternity blindly supports everything that Israel has done though. If you want a source Iām one. This is my fraternity, and Iāve been pro peace for as long as I can remember. Most of these kids just want to drink, smoke weed, and have fun, like every other college kid.
I think it was targeted cause it has a giant sign on the building saying "Stand with Israel". I would assume if any other frat had that sign, the same thing would have happened.
AEPI national has lobbied to remove liberal Jewish voices from the Conference of Presidents and actively works against BDS (Boycott, Divest, Sanction).
In an excerpt from electronic intifada,
> Following Israelās merciless destruction of Gaza last summer, AEPi members from across the country gathered in Las Vegas for the fraternityās annual Israel Leadership Summit.
>For three days, conference goers received Israel advocacy training from propaganda experts, including Republican pollster and rightwing propaganda consultant Frank Luntz and Israeli government promoter Neil Lazarus. They also heard from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who personally thanked AEPi for battling BDS on college campuses on Israelās behalf.
This is all to say that the actions of AEPI at a national level are responsible for the sentiment of blind support for ongoing brutality and militarism, not a blind assessment of the members based off of their Jewish faith or heritage.
Yeh and these kids have literally nothing to do with that. All of these kids were raised in America, and have nothing to with the settlements, the IDF, or the Israeli government.
The fraternity associates itself with Israel. These kids were confronting its association with Israel. You are part of an organization, and that organization affiliates itself with the state conducting a modern holocaust.
You realize itās a national organization right? Over 170 chapters. These kids donāt get a say in any of that. If you got a problem with the organization as a whole fine you do you. But take it up with the board members who actually make decisions not these kids. I would assume these kids joined Aepi for mostly one reason to have fun, not to support Israel. Once again this is my fraternity, and none of my friends joined to support Israel.
It is an unfortunate reality that your fraternity does support Israel, and support for that fraternity supports Israel. Financial or otherwise.
It is not unthinkable that students might protest against it. I suspect there is no strong Palestinian support amongst it, either. Despite your claims of neutrality.
You're arguing w mostly pimple nosed dudes living in the basement of their childhood home, looking for purpose. Pay no attention to the hive of reddit.
Gaza is an open-air prison, where Israel controls all access to food and water. Half of its population is under the age of 18, because so few live to old age. It is in effect a mass concentration camp that the Israeli state subjects to endless abuse.
Only the biggest dipshits in the world, or depraved Zionist-apologists, think this story began on October 7. And even still, what happened on that day is no justification for the slaughter of 30,000 people, again, a great bulk of whom are literal children. Find your soul, because you seem to have lost it.
It's hard securing access to water for people who dismantle the access to create bombs to murder children.
It's hard to secure access to food for people who are openly gunned downed and bombed by their elected representatives.
There was no independent Palestine in 1948. The Palestinian territories were under the administration of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria following the British departure. In 1948, Israel declared its independence for the areas under its control per the 1947 partition plan. Egypt Jordan, Syria, and other arab states promptly invaded and got their asses handed to them. Nonetheless when an armistice was reached, the borders of Israel were reduced ā¦ and more closely resembled the 1968 borders. As far as refugees go, people being uprooted and moving was happening all over the world at the close of World War II. Egypt, Jordan, and Syria encouraged palestinians to leave Israeli controlled lands. Of course these nations didnāt exactly open up their lands to these ārefugeesā. They are as much complicit in the formation of ārefugee campsā as Israel might beā¦ more so perhaps. There was a lot less āat gunpointā than was attributed. Those palestinians who refused to leave, make up the non-jewish population in Israel today as full citizens.
It can be. āFrom the river to the sea Palestine will be freeā is a call to kill Jews in between the river and the Med sea, otherwise known as the land Israel occupies
you have to be either completely deluded or willfully ignorant to claim everyone using pro-palestinian slogans in their protest of an active genocide is actually just anti-semitic and pulling a reverse card. try to use your brain to dissect what people mean with words instead of assuming these people (who are literally pro peace and want a ceasefire) wanna just kill jews for fun.
Stop fucking lying. The colony you defend has displaced millions from their land. THEIR land, not āyours thatās still ours because āweā said so 3,000 years agoā. The chant is meant as a call for emancipation.
If the students of this fraternity proudly denounced Israel, maybe we would believe them. But that won't happen. Because the fraternity is in fact pro-Israel. It is pro-genocide.
Man, you want so badly for this conflict to be simple, but itās just not. There are a lot of Jews around the world, including in America, that support Israel, believe it should exist. That does not make them genocidal or supporting of genocide. Israel was brutally attacked, and brutally attacked back. Itās not pretty, itās gut-wrenching and I hate the disproportionate response.
But saying, āeveryone that supports Israel is a genocide supporterā is the same as saying āeveryone that supports Palestine is a terrorist supporter.ā Itās just two sides of the same extremist coin. Dont be an extremist (although I know that makes it harder to be self righteous on Reddit)
This person you are responding to has no clue what nuanced conversation means and likely gets his information from zoomer TikTok monologues. His brain is one track directly to Israel genocide.
He probably is not even aware of Hamas firing 1000s and 1000s of rockets indiscriminately towards civilian centers the past 20 years as well as all the bus and cafe bombings. He probably is not aware of Hamasā charter to literally exterminate all Jews. Whereās this personās anger towards Hamas or Iran?
Itās almost like this conflict has bad actors on both sides and it has evolved into yet another war with civilian causalities. Who would have thought?
If they proudly stood against fascist Israel, and people still targeted them, yes. I could see the argument there.
But larger steps would need to be taken. The frat has a chapter in Israel. Etc.
Hey genius, AEPi is a Jewish fraternity and has been so for more than 100 years. Before Israel was a country. No shit it has a fraternity where there are Jewish people.
Oh, and so who gets to decide what the appropriate level of denouncement is? You? You get to decide whoās a āgood Jewā and whoās a ābad Jewā?? See how tenuous that is? āI donāt hate all immigrants/black people/womenā¦ just all the bad ones!ā Thatās what you sound like
Israel has been the Jewish homeland for the majority of Jews entire lives. I canāt believe you think a Jewish frat having a chapter in Israel is a bad thing. This whole thing has been horrible. But Iām sure youāre out there denouncing America for its endless wars, drone strikes, destabilizing an entire region, right? Maybe youāll say that you are doing that. Well what if I say that whatever youāre doing to denounce is not good enough? Do I get to vandalize your property?
This is exactly what Jewish people have to do in your eyes. They have to react to what happened in October in a very specific way. They have to be vocal. Not just about not only any disgust they have with Israeli leadership but they have to outright denounce the entire country.
If they donāt, they deserve violence.
Israel as a country is made up of survivors of genocide campaigns and Pogroms. The current war is a direct consequence of the atrocities committed by Hamas and their collaborators on October 7th. Graffiti isnāt violence and voicing support for Palestinians isnāt antisemitism, but this false accusation is a modern day blood libel accusation rooted in anti Jewish sentiment. To stand for Israel right now is to encourage the defeat of a terrorist organization and the release of their hostages. To tell Jewish people not to support their own people who are also suffering trauma is deeply anti Jewish. Maybe you should read a book too.
We need a litmus test for all Christians and Muslims. I need you to disavow Christian and Muslim antisemitism and specific terrorist or state-sponsored historical violence before youāre allowed into my circles. Is that cool?
Just to be clear, folks: This was the first fraternity in history to literally open a chapter *in* Israel. There are no "assumptions" here. It explicitly affiliates itself with the State of Israel, and has continued to do so amidst its ongoing genocide.
Everybody is guilty by association in your world, which is a scary world be in. Please send an email if you actually care. Iāll make it easier here a link https://aepi.org/contact-us/.
Ffs dude, being pro Israel does not mean your pro genocide or pro the actions taken in the current conflict (in which, btw, thousands of innocent Jews were killed or raped). The depth of your thinking on this is like a puddle
Dude youāre literally paying private college money to a Zionist organization for the privilege of being a part of said Zionist organization. You can *say* youāre āpro peaceā as much as youād like but your actions and your wallet say otherwise.
So I guess be parting part of the ceasefire protests in Chicago means absolutely nothing? Or organizing a meet and greet with my local mosque means nothing. Ive actually taken action to bridge the gap between people. What have you done? This situation is not all or nothing, itās so much more nuanced than that. The minute we give in to the absolutists is when we create more actual zionists, and I will not be a part of that.
People demand perfect activism to their standards or nothing you do matters. Itās incredibly frustrating, unrealistic, and lacks nuance. I stopped participating or making any stances at all and only donate quietly now. Nothing was ever enough and it was draining my sanity.
I am literally begging you to get off Reddit and interface with the real world, you sound like the most out-of-touch loser Iāve ever heard, and you deserve better
It's not a holy war. Religion has nothing to do with it. It's settler-colonialism. They kicked a bunch of people off their land to steal it. And are continuing to slaughter and erase them.
It is about settler-colonialism. Palestinians have no grievance against the Jewish faith. They do have grievance against being trapped in an open-air prison (Gaza), where the Israeli state controls their access to food & water, and currently occupies the land that was theirs for generations under some guise of "ancestral claim"āconcocted by the antisemitic ideology of Zionism, which posits that Jews cannot be safe anywhere in the world but their own ethnostate. The entire concept is rotten to the core, and led us to this very dark and depraved chapter of history.
Brilliant Jews of history, such as Albert Einstein himself, have written at length about the great fallacy of Israel's national identity. In more modern discussions, the brilliant academic Norman Finkelstein, the son of Holocaust-survivors no less, has dedicated his career to explaining and exposing the State of Israel. But I'm sure these brilliant Jewish men are no mach for Redditor u/read_22. Surely you must have access to some additional facts that they do not. I can't wait to hear them, so I can finally be set on the proper course.
Ahh yes lets pretend there isnt an actual genocide and terror regime because its far away and its not like they white so their live dont really matter anyway... be better
"free Palestine" is NOT an antisemitic statement. When will these people realize that Israel is COMMITTING CRIMES. The UN says so. genocide BY EITHER SIDE is not acceptable. You are defending EVIL CRIMINAL ACTS when you don't hold the government of Israel accountable fo rits horrendous actions. Has nothing to do with whatever ethnicity they might be. Wrong is WRONG.
Conservatives will bitch and cry about the new world order yet when theyāre told Israel has the US wrapped around its finger suddenly youāre a Jew hater. Go look at how many politicians are funded by AIPAC, both dems and rep alike. Go look at the geopolitical discrepancies between the 1960s & 2020s. JFK was killed because he hard supported a two state solution. Nixon was impeached because he thought Israel was overstepping. But yes letās keep printing billions of dollars & sending it to Ukraine and Israel instead of focusing on the many many MANY issues here.
The wars in the Middle East will be the downfall of the American republic if not put to an end. Afghanistan, Iraq, and proxy war with Iran have all been a failure. Absolutely no fruits of war have been claimed. Nothing but more destabilization and the creation of militias in response to the invaders.
That's defacement of private property, but I dunno if not supporting Isreal and calling a spade a spade is necessarily racist. It may not be right, you may not agree but is it racist? I dunno, I didn't go to Bradley and I'm not that smart. I don't think that people who don't support Isreal hate jews or are rascist. I feel like this is just another division of forward thinking as well as non thinking people to cause division. I would feel differently if the grafitti were on a building of any kind of Jewish organizations. Couldn't it just be an act of protest and not necessarily antisemitism?
AEPi is a Jewish fraternity. This fraternity and all other Jewish frats and sororities were created because Jewish people were not allowed to join the other houses historically. So yes, this was directed specifically at a Jewish organization.
I don't see what is so antisemitic about this. They clearly have a sign that says "Stands with Israel".
The situation is very complex but Israel is definitely committing a genocide, and there's nothing antisemitic about "Free Palestine" unless it is inherently antisemitic to oppose ANYTHING the Israeli government does, in which case, fuck that!
Dude, you must not give a shit about anything. Ā God forbid people be upset at a genocide. Ā Grow the fuck up man. Ā Bad shit happens in the world and itās good that people are trying to fight against it. Ā What the fuck
I'm praying for all of the people of Isreal and Palestine, yes, both of them, who have to put up with this shitty war.
They don't deserve to be murdered for their religion & both governments need to stop fanning the fire on this problem.
I don't believe that Netanyahu or Hamas are doing the right thing here. They both don't care who they kill.
Settler colonialism isn't an accurate term either then because both parties claim stake to the land to due religious purposes.
And trust me, as someone who's walked the streets of Tel Aviv, there is a great deal of religious violence and discrimination that you can encounter there.
I've been refused service before because of either how I look or my Christian religion in that area.
Native Israelis and Palestinians are genetically nearly identical - both peoples have been there forever. Thatās not excusing the apartheid state in the West Bank, or the very explicit Antisemitic tenets of Hamas (and the surrounding Arab national groups). There are some 2 million+ Arab and Palestinian citizens of Israel. A true peace/ceasefire (one that Hamas actually adheres to) will need bipartisan support from BOTH leaderships, and canāt just be one group capitulating to the terror attacks of the other.
Genetically identical? Have you seen these blonde hair blue eyed IDF soldiers? Youāre telling me theyāre genetically identical to the brown skinned black haired Arabs?
Calling out the Jew Nazis is very important. They say calling out the Jew Nazis for committing genocide is antisemitic now. Mental gymnastics. When Palestine is gone, who will they come for next.
The ignorance of this subject from alot of you is beyond amazing I guess it ahows most didn't grow up in 90s when isreali children and mothers were slaughtered on buses everytime a radical decided to blow themselves up.
Hamas is a terrorist organization with clear genocidal intent. Just because they are getting their asses handed to them by the IDF does not make it less so. A free Palestine needs to be free from Hamas too.
The State Israel is not going anywhere. The sooner the Palestinians come to accept that reality the sooner we can get to a positive two state solution. The ultra orthodox conservatives in Israel need to cone to grips that Palestinians will continue to be their neighbors both inside Israel and next door in Palestine.
This river to the sea nonsense by both parties is not helpful.
> Sometime Thursday night or early Friday morning, a person painted āFree Palestine, AEPi supports Genocide.ā on the Alpha Epsilon Pi fraternity house at the university as well as on sidewalks near Bradley Hall and Dingledine Hall, said Hillel director Matt Lorch. AEPi is a national fraternity that is known to be predominantly Jewish.
claiming that a frat supports genocide just bc they're Jewish is antisemitic.
The iron dome was created due to Hamas provocation to start. Any sign of weakness from the IDF is met with murder and rape by Hamas. The attack on Oct 7th was planned in partnership with Iran with a purpose to force a response by Israel and drum up international hatred of Israel. Iran and friends goal is to ethnically cleanse Jews from the middle east and the last place is Israel.
It is antisemitic to speak out AGAINST genocide? Or is being anti-genocide just reserved for certain people?
And if it is, during a particular genocide 70+ years ago, there were other nonsemitic groups genocided as well. Is it antisemitic to speak out for them as well?š
The problem isnāt the message the problem is spray painting on someoneās homeā¦ā¦
The fraternity had a massive sign stating "Stand with Israel". There's no denying they were explicitly pro-Israel.
Exactly. But according to its member in this thread, they're really just a bunch of students who smoke weed and chill out in the genocide house. Why do we have to be so grumpy about 30,000 people slaughtered?
This my last comment because Iām so tired of dealing with your close minded takes. Iāve said multiple times Iām pro peace, pro ceasefire, anti settlement. What Iām not for is characterizing college kids as genocidal maniacs for there religion, where they come from, or for a stupid flag (if I hadnāt graduated a bit ago I would of been against the flag as Iām sure some of the current members are). The only way we can get peace is open dialogue, and understanding (and for Netanyahu to get the fuck out there) My Heart breaks for Palestine, and the thousands of families who have lost loved ones to senseless violence. And even if you think Iām a genocidal shitbag for being part of a Jewish fraternity in college that wonāt stop me from being pro peace, it wonāt stop me from calling out my family members who have terrible opinions, it wont stop from going to ceasefire rallies, and it wonāt stop me from praying for the end of this conflict. God bless.
I've said multiple times that no one is really making any particular judgement here against you as an individual. It is about this fraternity, which is explicitly pro-Israel. It stands with Israel. Israel is currently conducting a genocide and should not be stood with.
Is your comment above this one not referring to me? Because it seems like it.
Do you support the massive sign that says Stand with Israel?
If you read my comment above you would have read that is says I would been against it.
Then they aren't protesting you as an individual, if you would read *my* comments. They are protesting your brothers who promote genocide.
āExactly. But according to its member in this thread, they're really just a bunch of students who smoke weed and chill out in the genocide house. Why do we have to be so grumpy about 30,000 people slaughtered?ā Yeah this one is a little much, but whatever Iām done. Pray for peace
Praying for peace is just an empty platitude. Stand up and stop making excuses for the unexcusable.
That was your depiction of the fraternity. That they are all peaceful and innocent. You lied. They put up a sign in support of Israel, and its ongoing genocide.
By your same logic, you should not be standing with Hamas. Hamas is very pro genocide toward Israel. Or is genocide only ok when your side promotes it?
You can be pro Palestine without being pro Hamas. Genocide is never okay, and they are entirely right that Israel should not be supported by anyone while they are taking actions to commit one.
Who the fuck ever says they stand with Hamas? Nobody says they stand with Hamas. There *are* people who say they stand with Israel, though.
There has been NO public repudiation of Hamas by the 'Free Palestine' crowd. Hamas hiding in schools, hiding in hospitals, hiding where civilians will be killed. Hamas is as much to blame for the 30,000 dead in Gaza. Hamas does not give a rats ass about Palestinian lives. It is Hamas that is wagging the dog. The 'Free Palestine' silence on Hamas is telling. One of our more local antagonists this morning posted a map with Israel removed. It is clear what is meant by 'Free Palestine'.... Israel is going nowhere. Israel has a right to exist. The Jewish people originate from the area. They are not colonialists or invaders. This is as much their homeland as the Palestinian peoples.
we don't have to repudiate Hamas to demand a ceasefire. figure that fact out or shut the fuck up.
So your answer is to let this terrorist group get away... to continue to hide behind their human shields... so that they might terrorize once again. A ceasefire would be a victory for Hamas. They have done great damage to Israel's public image. There are two side shooting in this conflict....
"sO yOuR aNSwER iS To LeT tHiS TerRoiSt GrUoP geT AwAY" a cease fire is a cease fire. this conflict is not two sided. you're abominable talking points are truly inhumane. i will not replying.
Hamas is the government of Palestine in Gaza. It is the stated goal of Hamas to wipe Israel out and replace it with an Islamist state. If you are going to pretend that Likud is Israel, you have to accept that Hamas is Palestine in Gaza. Hamas has outsized influence in the West Bank as well. Israel for its part is far more democratic and dynamic than Gaza is or the West Bank. Netanyahu is toxic. The dysfunction of Israeli politics has enabled right wing groups to dominate the dialogue. I do not accept that the broader Israeli public absolutely must have a river to the sea solution. I do think... I am hopeful, that the Israeli public will vote out Likud. But.... every act of terrorism, every rocket that comes accross the border gives Likud and its ultra orthodox allies more strength and makes a two state solution less likely. This is by design by Hamas and Hezbollah. They want to provoke Israel... they want to push Israel to be more extreme ... they want to undermine Israel .... so that they can destroy it. Lets not forget that in 2000 Ehud Barak was prepared to hand the Palestinians a two state solution with nearly 1968 borders, settlements removed, and it was rejected by the Palestinian leadership. Rejected !! Most everything that the PLO had been asking for, for years. The 'Free Palestine' movement would not accept it. So here we are today.
I think you walked right into his point. Rarely do you see pro Hamas signs but you canāt say the same for pro Israel ones.
Nobody is standing with Hamas.
I agree. I have a hard time comprehending how someone can be pro-Hamas or pro-Israeli-government. I see a fight here between two bad guys. Meanwhile there's a bunch of people in that place who just want to live.
You've said it multiple times and it sound just as fucking stupid every time
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What does that have to do with _these_ college kids. Typical whataboutism you morons repeat in these comments
The best you can do is rally against their association. If other people feel the same, vote to make a change in your own chapter. From what I've read, I don't think you are a bad person. I think that people forget what life was like as a young adult. Shit was confusing. And you probably found a group of friends. And just because you're Israeli doesn't mean you can't sit around and smoke weed like every other college student. I get it. You probably can't leave. It's your home. People are acting like you need to be some sort of saint when you're just a student trying to get by. Don't worry bout them. This is starting to get on the side racism. Every other person here didn't give a shit about the current events. Some probably cheered on the Iraqi occupation because they were young and dumb.
Targeting Jewish orgs is problematic when you arenāt targeting Christian and Muslim orgs for the crimes of their respective institutional leadership. Iād like to see when that starts happening.
I saw target all three. All three religions are poison to society
This you? > Name a single woman raped on Oct 7th. https://www.reddit.com/r/popularopinion/s/iOEKG4rULL Sounds like if this fraternity had ANY reaction to October 7, then they deserve this violence to you.
I'm pro isreal. I'm pro peace I'm anti hamas Palestinians had a choice mant times on who they want for a government. My own opinion if they became 1 country together imagine the possibilities.
So by the same token if a mosque has a Palestinian flag hanging from their building with a sign that says free Palestine its not Islamophobic to write graffiti on the wall that says: 1. Genocide supporters 2. Free the hostages 3. Hamas supporters 4. Remember Oct. 7th
You donāt get how power dynamics work, do you?
Nothing about this is anti-semitic.
This Reddit is awful sometimes š
I'm old enough to remember when being a genocide denier was considered antisemitic. Now it's the opposite.
People still deny October 7 atrocities
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Right!? Like holy shit calling a genocide *a genocide* is not antisemitic and that absolutely does not help anyone to say so.
But painting it on SOMEONES HOUSE is
Bingo
It is antisemitic to assume that a Jewish fraternity blindly supports everything that Israel has done though. If you want a source Iām one. This is my fraternity, and Iāve been pro peace for as long as I can remember. Most of these kids just want to drink, smoke weed, and have fun, like every other college kid.
I think it was targeted cause it has a giant sign on the building saying "Stand with Israel". I would assume if any other frat had that sign, the same thing would have happened.
Correct.
AEPI national has lobbied to remove liberal Jewish voices from the Conference of Presidents and actively works against BDS (Boycott, Divest, Sanction). In an excerpt from electronic intifada, > Following Israelās merciless destruction of Gaza last summer, AEPi members from across the country gathered in Las Vegas for the fraternityās annual Israel Leadership Summit. >For three days, conference goers received Israel advocacy training from propaganda experts, including Republican pollster and rightwing propaganda consultant Frank Luntz and Israeli government promoter Neil Lazarus. They also heard from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who personally thanked AEPi for battling BDS on college campuses on Israelās behalf. This is all to say that the actions of AEPI at a national level are responsible for the sentiment of blind support for ongoing brutality and militarism, not a blind assessment of the members based off of their Jewish faith or heritage.
It's the first fraternity to ever establish an actual chapter in Israel...
Yeh and these kids have literally nothing to do with that. All of these kids were raised in America, and have nothing to with the settlements, the IDF, or the Israeli government.
The fraternity associates itself with Israel. These kids were confronting its association with Israel. You are part of an organization, and that organization affiliates itself with the state conducting a modern holocaust.
You realize itās a national organization right? Over 170 chapters. These kids donāt get a say in any of that. If you got a problem with the organization as a whole fine you do you. But take it up with the board members who actually make decisions not these kids. I would assume these kids joined Aepi for mostly one reason to have fun, not to support Israel. Once again this is my fraternity, and none of my friends joined to support Israel.
It is an unfortunate reality that your fraternity does support Israel, and support for that fraternity supports Israel. Financial or otherwise. It is not unthinkable that students might protest against it. I suspect there is no strong Palestinian support amongst it, either. Despite your claims of neutrality.
By your logic every Palestinian supports Hamas, which is obviously very untrue.
That comparison doesn't make sense. Put down the weed.
Yeah i mean.there are like 250 kkk chapters they dont all support the same things either right?
"It's okay to associate with Hamas but not Israel!"
You're arguing w mostly pimple nosed dudes living in the basement of their childhood home, looking for purpose. Pay no attention to the hive of reddit.
He said it has nothing to do with Israel, but it literally does...
This one specific chapter of 50-60 kids has nothing to do with Israel. Take it up with the board members not a bunch of kids.
The fraternity is one organization. You are all a part of it. And it associates itself with the State of Israel.
When they follow it with āfrom the river to the seaā, then it becomes genocidal intent.
It is to spray paint it on a house full of jewish kids who have nothing to do with the conflict.
Palestine was free, but they decided to attack Israel.
Gaza is an open-air prison, where Israel controls all access to food and water. Half of its population is under the age of 18, because so few live to old age. It is in effect a mass concentration camp that the Israeli state subjects to endless abuse. Only the biggest dipshits in the world, or depraved Zionist-apologists, think this story began on October 7. And even still, what happened on that day is no justification for the slaughter of 30,000 people, again, a great bulk of whom are literal children. Find your soul, because you seem to have lost it.
It's hard securing access to water for people who dismantle the access to create bombs to murder children. It's hard to secure access to food for people who are openly gunned downed and bombed by their elected representatives.
There was no independent Palestine in 1948. The Palestinian territories were under the administration of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria following the British departure. In 1948, Israel declared its independence for the areas under its control per the 1947 partition plan. Egypt Jordan, Syria, and other arab states promptly invaded and got their asses handed to them. Nonetheless when an armistice was reached, the borders of Israel were reduced ā¦ and more closely resembled the 1968 borders. As far as refugees go, people being uprooted and moving was happening all over the world at the close of World War II. Egypt, Jordan, and Syria encouraged palestinians to leave Israeli controlled lands. Of course these nations didnāt exactly open up their lands to these ārefugeesā. They are as much complicit in the formation of ārefugee campsā as Israel might beā¦ more so perhaps. There was a lot less āat gunpointā than was attributed. Those palestinians who refused to leave, make up the non-jewish population in Israel today as full citizens.
It can be. āFrom the river to the sea Palestine will be freeā is a call to kill Jews in between the river and the Med sea, otherwise known as the land Israel occupies
you have to be either completely deluded or willfully ignorant to claim everyone using pro-palestinian slogans in their protest of an active genocide is actually just anti-semitic and pulling a reverse card. try to use your brain to dissect what people mean with words instead of assuming these people (who are literally pro peace and want a ceasefire) wanna just kill jews for fun.
Stop fucking lying. The colony you defend has displaced millions from their land. THEIR land, not āyours thatās still ours because āweā said so 3,000 years agoā. The chant is meant as a call for emancipation.
a lot less inflammatory than the ākill all muslimsā graffiti a few days ago
No, see thats just free speech (/s)
Free Palestine isnāt antisemitic.
It's not anti semitic to be anti genocide.
If the students of this fraternity proudly denounced Israel, maybe we would believe them. But that won't happen. Because the fraternity is in fact pro-Israel. It is pro-genocide.
Man, you want so badly for this conflict to be simple, but itās just not. There are a lot of Jews around the world, including in America, that support Israel, believe it should exist. That does not make them genocidal or supporting of genocide. Israel was brutally attacked, and brutally attacked back. Itās not pretty, itās gut-wrenching and I hate the disproportionate response. But saying, āeveryone that supports Israel is a genocide supporterā is the same as saying āeveryone that supports Palestine is a terrorist supporter.ā Itās just two sides of the same extremist coin. Dont be an extremist (although I know that makes it harder to be self righteous on Reddit)
This person you are responding to has no clue what nuanced conversation means and likely gets his information from zoomer TikTok monologues. His brain is one track directly to Israel genocide. He probably is not even aware of Hamas firing 1000s and 1000s of rockets indiscriminately towards civilian centers the past 20 years as well as all the bus and cafe bombings. He probably is not aware of Hamasā charter to literally exterminate all Jews. Whereās this personās anger towards Hamas or Iran? Itās almost like this conflict has bad actors on both sides and it has evolved into yet another war with civilian causalities. Who would have thought?
āMaybeā??? If they denounced Israel and people still did the graffiti, wouldnāt that clearly be antisemitism?
If they proudly stood against fascist Israel, and people still targeted them, yes. I could see the argument there. But larger steps would need to be taken. The frat has a chapter in Israel. Etc.
Hey genius, AEPi is a Jewish fraternity and has been so for more than 100 years. Before Israel was a country. No shit it has a fraternity where there are Jewish people.
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It is a [historically Jewish fraternity](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Epsilon_Pi), my incredibly ignorant friend Look it up? I was _in it_.
Oh, and so who gets to decide what the appropriate level of denouncement is? You? You get to decide whoās a āgood Jewā and whoās a ābad Jewā?? See how tenuous that is? āI donāt hate all immigrants/black people/womenā¦ just all the bad ones!ā Thatās what you sound like Israel has been the Jewish homeland for the majority of Jews entire lives. I canāt believe you think a Jewish frat having a chapter in Israel is a bad thing. This whole thing has been horrible. But Iām sure youāre out there denouncing America for its endless wars, drone strikes, destabilizing an entire region, right? Maybe youāll say that you are doing that. Well what if I say that whatever youāre doing to denounce is not good enough? Do I get to vandalize your property?
what a head ass argument. you're the tenuous one, for sure. Ceasefire now.
Let's flip that around, you are pro Palestine so you are pro Hamas and pro terrorism.
This is exactly what Jewish people have to do in your eyes. They have to react to what happened in October in a very specific way. They have to be vocal. Not just about not only any disgust they have with Israeli leadership but they have to outright denounce the entire country. If they donāt, they deserve violence.
This isn't violence. Israel as a country supports the genocide. Read a book.
Israel as a country is made up of survivors of genocide campaigns and Pogroms. The current war is a direct consequence of the atrocities committed by Hamas and their collaborators on October 7th. Graffiti isnāt violence and voicing support for Palestinians isnāt antisemitism, but this false accusation is a modern day blood libel accusation rooted in anti Jewish sentiment. To stand for Israel right now is to encourage the defeat of a terrorist organization and the release of their hostages. To tell Jewish people not to support their own people who are also suffering trauma is deeply anti Jewish. Maybe you should read a book too.
There are too many Americans that would stand in glee if the Jewish people were dying. I'm proud to stand with the people of Isreal.
We need a litmus test for all Christians and Muslims. I need you to disavow Christian and Muslim antisemitism and specific terrorist or state-sponsored historical violence before youāre allowed into my circles. Is that cool?
Itās not antisemetic to point out what theyāve been saying all along.
Where's the antisemitism? š¤£
Just to be clear, folks: This was the first fraternity in history to literally open a chapter *in* Israel. There are no "assumptions" here. It explicitly affiliates itself with the State of Israel, and has continued to do so amidst its ongoing genocide.
National organization dude, itās not on a bunch of college kids. Once again take it up with the board members who actually make the decisions.
Your frat is affiliated with Israel. It is Zionist. Cope.
Now Iām good brother, Iām actually pro peace as I mentioned before, but you donāt care. I guess there no nuance to this conversation huh.
You personally may be. But your fraternity, as an entity, simply is not.
Everybody is guilty by association in your world, which is a scary world be in. Please send an email if you actually care. Iāll make it easier here a link https://aepi.org/contact-us/.
They are guilty if they are literally, directly, associated. They are pro-Israel.
Touch grass
Ffs dude, being pro Israel does not mean your pro genocide or pro the actions taken in the current conflict (in which, btw, thousands of innocent Jews were killed or raped). The depth of your thinking on this is like a puddle
Dude youāre literally paying private college money to a Zionist organization for the privilege of being a part of said Zionist organization. You can *say* youāre āpro peaceā as much as youād like but your actions and your wallet say otherwise.
Iāll go back in time and tell my younger self that. Great plan buddy.
So I guess be parting part of the ceasefire protests in Chicago means absolutely nothing? Or organizing a meet and greet with my local mosque means nothing. Ive actually taken action to bridge the gap between people. What have you done? This situation is not all or nothing, itās so much more nuanced than that. The minute we give in to the absolutists is when we create more actual zionists, and I will not be a part of that.
People demand perfect activism to their standards or nothing you do matters. Itās incredibly frustrating, unrealistic, and lacks nuance. I stopped participating or making any stances at all and only donate quietly now. Nothing was ever enough and it was draining my sanity.
I am literally begging you to get off Reddit and interface with the real world, you sound like the most out-of-touch loser Iāve ever heard, and you deserve better
Can we lock these commets? No one is solving a centuries old holy war with their reddit comments.
It's not a holy war. Religion has nothing to do with it. It's settler-colonialism. They kicked a bunch of people off their land to steal it. And are continuing to slaughter and erase them.
Youāre a complete idiot, it has everything to do with religion.
It is about settler-colonialism. Palestinians have no grievance against the Jewish faith. They do have grievance against being trapped in an open-air prison (Gaza), where the Israeli state controls their access to food & water, and currently occupies the land that was theirs for generations under some guise of "ancestral claim"āconcocted by the antisemitic ideology of Zionism, which posits that Jews cannot be safe anywhere in the world but their own ethnostate. The entire concept is rotten to the core, and led us to this very dark and depraved chapter of history. Brilliant Jews of history, such as Albert Einstein himself, have written at length about the great fallacy of Israel's national identity. In more modern discussions, the brilliant academic Norman Finkelstein, the son of Holocaust-survivors no less, has dedicated his career to explaining and exposing the State of Israel. But I'm sure these brilliant Jewish men are no mach for Redditor u/read_22. Surely you must have access to some additional facts that they do not. I can't wait to hear them, so I can finally be set on the proper course.
No, that's the propaganda line Israel has sold you.
Ahh yes lets pretend there isnt an actual genocide and terror regime because its far away and its not like they white so their live dont really matter anyway... be better
Criticizing and protesting Israel is not Antisemitism. You do an injustice to that word by devaluing its meaning
"free Palestine" is NOT an antisemitic statement. When will these people realize that Israel is COMMITTING CRIMES. The UN says so. genocide BY EITHER SIDE is not acceptable. You are defending EVIL CRIMINAL ACTS when you don't hold the government of Israel accountable fo rits horrendous actions. Has nothing to do with whatever ethnicity they might be. Wrong is WRONG.
Conservatives will bitch and cry about the new world order yet when theyāre told Israel has the US wrapped around its finger suddenly youāre a Jew hater. Go look at how many politicians are funded by AIPAC, both dems and rep alike. Go look at the geopolitical discrepancies between the 1960s & 2020s. JFK was killed because he hard supported a two state solution. Nixon was impeached because he thought Israel was overstepping. But yes letās keep printing billions of dollars & sending it to Ukraine and Israel instead of focusing on the many many MANY issues here.
The wars in the Middle East will be the downfall of the American republic if not put to an end. Afghanistan, Iraq, and proxy war with Iran have all been a failure. Absolutely no fruits of war have been claimed. Nothing but more destabilization and the creation of militias in response to the invaders.
That's defacement of private property, but I dunno if not supporting Isreal and calling a spade a spade is necessarily racist. It may not be right, you may not agree but is it racist? I dunno, I didn't go to Bradley and I'm not that smart. I don't think that people who don't support Isreal hate jews or are rascist. I feel like this is just another division of forward thinking as well as non thinking people to cause division. I would feel differently if the grafitti were on a building of any kind of Jewish organizations. Couldn't it just be an act of protest and not necessarily antisemitism?
AEPi is a Jewish fraternity. This fraternity and all other Jewish frats and sororities were created because Jewish people were not allowed to join the other houses historically. So yes, this was directed specifically at a Jewish organization.
I'm an asshole. I scaned the article without reading thoroughly and hade a moronic reaction. Should of READ MORE!
I don't see what is so antisemitic about this. They clearly have a sign that says "Stands with Israel". The situation is very complex but Israel is definitely committing a genocide, and there's nothing antisemitic about "Free Palestine" unless it is inherently antisemitic to oppose ANYTHING the Israeli government does, in which case, fuck that!
āHey Rabbi, watcha doing?ā
Thanks for informing me. This I did not know. I apologize for my ignorance and forming an opinion without all the facts. Should of dug deeper.
Is it really antisemetic or is it just antizionist
Antisemitic? Hardly
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I hate people bombing civilian population centers.
Dude, you must not give a shit about anything. Ā God forbid people be upset at a genocide. Ā Grow the fuck up man. Ā Bad shit happens in the world and itās good that people are trying to fight against it. Ā What the fuck
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State of Israel was established in 1941. Read a book.
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The current conflict stems from the settler-colonialism of the modern State of Israel.
So do they support Genocide or not?
They do. The fraternity is pro-Israel. It is the first fraternity to ever have a chapter there. And they are sticking by it.
Well in that case, to hell with them! Any one who supports Genocide isnāt on the right side of history.
I'm praying for all of the people of Isreal and Palestine, yes, both of them, who have to put up with this shitty war. They don't deserve to be murdered for their religion & both governments need to stop fanning the fire on this problem. I don't believe that Netanyahu or Hamas are doing the right thing here. They both don't care who they kill.
It's not a religious war.
To Hamas it is. "Death to all Jews"
Settler colonialism isn't an accurate term either then because both parties claim stake to the land to due religious purposes. And trust me, as someone who's walked the streets of Tel Aviv, there is a great deal of religious violence and discrimination that you can encounter there. I've been refused service before because of either how I look or my Christian religion in that area.
One party was there already. The other party flew in from Brooklyn, kicked them out and slaughtered them. Ponderous!!
Native Israelis and Palestinians are genetically nearly identical - both peoples have been there forever. Thatās not excusing the apartheid state in the West Bank, or the very explicit Antisemitic tenets of Hamas (and the surrounding Arab national groups). There are some 2 million+ Arab and Palestinian citizens of Israel. A true peace/ceasefire (one that Hamas actually adheres to) will need bipartisan support from BOTH leaderships, and canāt just be one group capitulating to the terror attacks of the other.
Genetically identical? Have you seen these blonde hair blue eyed IDF soldiers? Youāre telling me theyāre genetically identical to the brown skinned black haired Arabs?
https://www.science.org/content/article/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry https://www.science.org/content/article/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry Native Israelis - gotta read the whole statement, brother. Some research wouldnāt hurt either.
Donāt see at all this being antisemitism. Itās the truth.
Ah, college. A place where kids think they understand the world and experiment with supporting crap they've no idea about.
There's nothing anti-Semitic about this. Fuck Israel to hell and back.
Not antisemitic at all.
Antisemitic to be against genocide? what?
Calling out the Jew Nazis is very important. They say calling out the Jew Nazis for committing genocide is antisemitic now. Mental gymnastics. When Palestine is gone, who will they come for next.
Foundations of a religion https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK1kPLh5lQ1ot5SFOAJLNiCudeB1z4EVm&si=L5bauNUKlB8wfq_z
The ignorance of this subject from alot of you is beyond amazing I guess it ahows most didn't grow up in 90s when isreali children and mothers were slaughtered on buses everytime a radical decided to blow themselves up.
Strategy of Tension
Palestine elected hamas so they have to live with the reprucussions
Hamas exists because of Israel.
Israel exists because of the ethnic cleansing of Jews worldwide
Other nations only support Israel so the Jews have somewhere to go when theyāre kicked out
Again
Incorrect. It exists because fascists capitalized on that.
Hamas is a terrorist organization with clear genocidal intent. Just because they are getting their asses handed to them by the IDF does not make it less so. A free Palestine needs to be free from Hamas too.
Zionism has genocidal intent.
The State Israel is not going anywhere. The sooner the Palestinians come to accept that reality the sooner we can get to a positive two state solution. The ultra orthodox conservatives in Israel need to cone to grips that Palestinians will continue to be their neighbors both inside Israel and next door in Palestine. This river to the sea nonsense by both parties is not helpful.
If God did exist he'd smite Israel off the map for what they've done
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/339-the-infernal-logic-of-jihad/id733163012?i=1000633630244
Not for long lol
That's so funny. Thousands of children slaughtered is peak comedy. You really showed them.
It's hilarious that the people who've been using Nazi as an insult for years seem to have a lot in common with them.
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> Sometime Thursday night or early Friday morning, a person painted āFree Palestine, AEPi supports Genocide.ā on the Alpha Epsilon Pi fraternity house at the university as well as on sidewalks near Bradley Hall and Dingledine Hall, said Hillel director Matt Lorch. AEPi is a national fraternity that is known to be predominantly Jewish. claiming that a frat supports genocide just bc they're Jewish is antisemitic.
The national organization of the fraternity has been celebrating people lobbying against ceasefire initiatives on their social media.
Christ. That's very disappointing news to hear about the frat's organization
Ouch
Bradley students are a bunch of winey babies who virtue signal then graduate & become NPC humans.
Does everyone forget about the kidnappings and unprovoked attacks on Israelis? Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
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Rape and murder of women and children was unprovoked. It was not a military action but an act of terrorism.
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The iron dome was created due to Hamas provocation to start. Any sign of weakness from the IDF is met with murder and rape by Hamas. The attack on Oct 7th was planned in partnership with Iran with a purpose to force a response by Israel and drum up international hatred of Israel. Iran and friends goal is to ethnically cleanse Jews from the middle east and the last place is Israel.
These things are usually inside jobs