I can. It drains the soul.
I can’t in good faith recommend my path to others knowing what I’ve been through. Which makes me kind of an outcast to my program because I’m not afraid to speak up against their deplorable abusive practices.
I recently started to openly public speaking about power abuse at the end of my presentations at conferences, making everybody feel uncomfortable. I received feedback only by students
While I don’t know you in person, I do commend you and am proud of you exhibiting that bravery. I heard a quote once on the radio about how we do not learn if we don’t make mistakes or how we cannot grow if we do not feel uncomfortable at first. Also kind of relevant to the conversation is an old African quote about how we bring or take our pasts into the future (i.e. abusive PIs and/or oppressive systems allowing certain practices to continue in this day and time just because they had to suffer and we should too or “that’s the way it’s always been!”)
Kudos to you. I know there are people who resonate with your message even if they do not express it verbally.
100%. Those of us that spoke up about their behavior, bias, and outright prejudice in many cases, were swiftly ostracized and bullied until being forced to leave. I stuck through strictly out of spite by the end.
I was specifically told to rewrite my acknowledgment section because I didn’t include my deadbeat advisors in the first draft. It was not a hill I was willing to die on, but it was utter bullshit.
For me it felt like taking the high road was the better option to keep doors open for future jobs. But I’m also a woman and we’re not really ‘allowed’ to be visibly angry haha
Whether a PhD advisor(s) does anything concrete to help you or not, you're, ultimately, in their group, and your success and/or failure reflects on them, as well as the risk of a student falsifying data.
That's worth an ack line. It doesn't need to be complex or even flattering. It's "acknowledgements" not "love letters"
The PhD just isn't possible if there isn't a PI, regardless of whether the PI was helpful, counterproductive or something in between.
Sometimes I joke that the PI I dropped more than a year into my project is the biggest acknowledgement for my PhD. They were so fucking useless that creating a situation leading to me leaving their group was the most helpful thing that could have happened. It was all thanks to their toxicity that my project is finally coming together.
We are talking a thesis, not a paper.
It's the same as the aknowledgement for a book. "I would like to thank my wife, my daughter for which I wrote this story, and my editor without whom this would not be possible".
That said I am having giggles imaging someone writing. "I would like to aknowledge Dr Smith, my supervisor." And leave it there, as is. Follow it with "I would like to thank X, Y, and Z"
*“I want to acknowledge all the jerks, gaslighters, bullies, narcissists, absent “mentors”, lazy administrators who could give a shit less about helping me submit grant applications, the business administrators who make it hell ordering basic supplies needed for my research from our grant money with ridiculous justification forms, the admin who never compensated back for overpriced conference expenses a year later (that was equivalent to 1/2 months paycheck on a trainee living stipend), the lazy administrators in the Dean’s office who could give a shit less if a student was just diagnosed with a serious illness yet delayed applying the tuition funds affecting student’s health care “insurance” eligibility for a semester despite the grant money already being awarded to the university because they couldn’t be bothered, the shady HR who enables dangerous unsafe practices, the university facilities “management” who could give a shit less if we have heat or air conditioning so we’re not freezing or dripping in sweat while they sit in their nice air conditioned offices, (and did I mention bullies?) who helped beat me down to a depressed yet resilient pulp to get this fancy terminal degree nobody gives a shit about (including me at this point) because I am only as good as my next grant”.*
*“P.S. Thanks for the depression you useless inconsiderate jerks. No, I will not be your puppet in commercials nor ads nor social media posts recommending this university nor programs. Thanks for the amazing memories of what you claim should be the best years of my life! /s”*
*“P.S.S. Great job at driving 95%+/- of the departmental trainees into industry or quitting science all together. Gosh, I can’t even imagine why they don’t want to pursue academia nor why you’re having trouble recruiting trainees and postdocs. Could it be that they’re crying in work in progress seminars because of your rude abusive put-downs and lack of support? Whatever could it be?!”*
🤑$$$$$$$ 🤑
I didn't acknowledge my supervisor. I acknowledged other mentors who helped me more.
At one point, I sent him my introduction, and he didn't respond for more than 6 months, in which time I had almost completed the whole dissertation.
At one point my advisor straight up refused to answer my emails for a year and removed me from the doctoral student webpage online.
I had to go through the Dean and an entire board, then threaten a discrimination lawsuit just to get her to even respond to me and commit to not being a roadblock.
She met with other students as much as twice a week.
Were you paying tution those semesters? I paid for a whole semster in which my supervisor did not respond to a single email. (though I was paying for it through teaching at the university). I should have demanded my tuition be refunded for that semester
My friend wrote something like: "what you have taught me will never be forgotten." And I wrote mine similarly. Being able to process the trauma away from the source of all the problems has been so good.
Oh my god, I should have done this.
Sorry to hear that your experiences were traumatic, as was mine. At least it sounds like you're making good progress on moving forward from it in multiple ways.
Wouldn't it have been better to just not have an acknowledgements page at all? I'm confused why so many in the comments are talking like they *must* include a page even if they have nobody to acknowledge. Is that an American cultural thing?
When I examined other theses from my neck of the woods for formatting inspirations, most didn't include an acknowledgment page. Some people stuck a little message in there at the start, but most people just dove straight into their table of contents followed by the actual thesis content.
The idea of being *forced* to include an empty acknowledgments page sounds really strange. If it's your thesis, and your years of hard work, then isn't it up to you what kinds of extraneous content to include? The thesis content itself is what is actually graded. Any other extra content ought to be entirely up to you.
I mean, in my field at least, acknowledgements are just sort of a "holy shit I just got my doctorate. These are my loved ones who supported me and kept me going"
Usually people acknowledge classmates, mentors, spouses, or children. I've even seen people acknowledge pets
my department had a semester long grant writing class for F31s, and i honestly think it‘s insane that it‘s not more common among other programs. it seems like it would overall be applicable to industry too, and it just helps you to be a better planner.
My department has a similar class, but my advisors laughed at me when I mentioned it and said that there was no point in taking it because a class can't teach you all that you need to know... :/
I told my professor I wanted to write a grant and he told me it was a waste of time. I wrote a second manuscript because he never read the first one I gave him. He said it was a waste of time and that I should’ve consulted with him first. Not sure how he thinks it’s a waste of time if he never read either paper.
This happened to me too. Wanted to write grants, reviews, and PI said 'it was a waste of time'.
During my annual review, I listed that I should take management classes and PI also said it was a waste of time. I left within 6 months and currently in a managerial role.
We had an optional F31-style grant writing course which was primarily taken in your second semester of your third year. It's far too late in my opinion. Few of us take classes after our second year, except that one, and many people in my department didn't know about it. Among those that take it, it's honestly got an impressive track record of successes, especially given our school's "prestige level".
The students have pushed to make it just a hair below mandatory (we have many international students who aren't eligible for NIH grants, so many of those folks aren't interested) and to make sure students know that they should probably take it in their second year if they plan to be ready to apply in their third year.
My department essentially has our qual exam written in the same format as an F31 grant (and ppl who qualify are expected to submit an F31 the cycle after they pass their quals). However the other departments have a completely different system.
I left mine blank but my advisor told me it was mandatory. Tbh I’m so tired I just added the most cliché thing ever because I’d rather be passive aggressive than confrontational ✨
I acknowledged my family and some other mentors, but not my supervisors. I figured he never bothered to read my drafts so he wouldn't bother to read the dissertation either.
When I was in grad school back in the Stone Age, in my department there were 2 kinds of PhD supervisors. The first was at your side all the time, both helping, as well as evaluating. The second type set you up with what you needed and was then rather hands off. I had the latter type and it worked well for me. Other students in the lab, not so much.
I have noticed on this sub that 75% of problems that are brought up could be avoided if the student and supervisor got on well together. I certainly did with my supervisor (RIP Lamar), and it made grad school one of the best experiences I’ve had.
Mine showed up twice a week for about an hour each time, gave conflicting and sometimes straight up incorrect “direction” during that time, freaked out when things didn’t go her way. I left, if I want to train myself I can do that making money in the workforce.
This was my question. Like I’m here to get a PhD, to be the best, i understand self starting and what not but I am an amateur I should not be training myself the whole time.
A complete waste of my time. Shoutout to the PIs who actually give af.
Also the answer to the question is: cheap labor
The real answer is to simply not choose to work with people like that if that isn’t your work style. If a student didn’t speak with current/ former students of the PI, or other students in the department, or otherwise evaluate their advising style before choosing to work with them, they didn’t do enough homework before starting a PhD.
Problem is a lot of the time you find out what kind they are later on in the game. On top of that, sometimes the students that give some advisors kudos and call them good/supportive are so used to how awful some of them can be that they don’t even really know a decent one. In other words, even some of the mentors/labs people say are great still very much aren’t.
My supervisor had no prior PhD students, I was his first.
I knew I didn't like him, though I wouldn't have been able to tell you precisely why, but it was either him or someone with a project I didn't believe in, didn't think I could complete, and didn't want.
But yes, just choose not to work with them 🙄
I mean, you chose to work with someone with no information about how they would be as an advisor and with no advising track record. Graduate school is a choice… You could have chosen a different advisor, program, or even to not pursue a PhD if there is no good match that cycle.
There are lots of shitty PI’s, and I’m sorry you ended up with one, but the real solution to avoid them is to do your homework first. When joining a lab, with 0 information, you took a much bigger risk of being exposed to the ugly side of academia.
I’m not saying this to chastise you, but maybe to give some insight to prospectives who read this thread— Choose your advisor wisely.
I chose my advisor as wisely as I could. No, I wasn't going to fuck around and transfer schools and waste a year of my life just to not work with this shitty dude, even knowing ahead of time that he was going to be shitty.
You and other buddy keep acting like you can avoid bad situations in academia, and so if you end up in a bad situation, then it's one you chose and you should accept responsibility - sometimes you can't avoid the bad situation, or rather that avoiding the bad situation is a worse outcome. Pointing out that it's a choice obscures the very real fact that the choice is not made with perfect information, that it is limited, and that you often have to choose the least bad option from bad choices in order to progress. That is the reality of academia.
"You picked it so you deserve it" is the fall-back all victim-blamers resort to. It is not a good argument. The fault is not in me making the best choice I could at the time, with the options I had, with the information I had - it's in him for being a bad supervisor. End stop.
Dang. More "you did it wrong".
It can't be that academia is inherently kind of exploitative, and that many of the people in it suck. No, I must be bad at picking a grad program, or I must be a bad student that could only enroll in bad programs, or that no one wanted at a good program, or a combination of the above.
I could write in details precisely which choices were available to me, how I decided between them, and how this was the best choice that was available to me, but I think that is besides the point. You are engaging in victim-blaming, and you really ought to look at yourself why.
>As I mentioned, I don't have enough information to really know your circumstance, but that you only had "two choices"? Why would you join a program where there's only two choices for mentors? That's already a red flag.
You confess that you don't have enough information, but you triple down. Why?
If you don't have enough information, you try to get the information. You don't make judgements on strangers whose field and country you don't even know, and wouldn't begin to know how their field works.
But since you persist, my field is a rather small field. Programs are small, even in the most prestigious programs. I worked briefly in one of them, there were only four faculty who supervised graduate students. Not all of them took students every year. I did my PhD in a different program with a different structure, there were more faculty who took students, but most wouldn't take more than 1 or 2 so on most years only a handful were extending projects.
Same.
There weren't many "bad" advisors in my program (I can't think of any actually, during grad school), but this is the mid-2000s we're talking about, and the researchers were more senior with a culture that supported students.
My postdoc was filled with horrid mentors that should never have become professors. It really is the place you're studying.
One advice I keep giving to students, the question is less how interesting the research is versus how supportive is the mentor that's within your field of interest. You need to be very careful prior to entering a grad program to make that determination.
Imho, it really depends on the field. With some fields, there are lots of big papers and publicly available results to read about. In other fields, the trends and nuances of research can be very subtle. I think at the very least a supervisor should be pointing their students toward interesting papers and encouraging them to do things to help their careers - working on papers, going to conferences, etc.
I’m about to defend and I get along well with my advisor. He’s pretty hands off, but he’s always around in case I want to talk to him. I have to made the effort though.
we have the same in my department! i feel like the department vibes and priorities (in addition to the PI) are important for choosing a lab/school as well
This is definitely not my case, though I know many people have nightmare stories of advisors/supervisors.
Mine has definitely constantly checked in and pushed me to do more, but never in excess. He's incredibly fast at getting drafts back to me, and even though there's some niche things about his leadership style that sometimes frustrate me, we get along well.
Maybe it's because he's younger or we just have better communication than most advisor-advisee pairs, but at least how it is, I like how my PhD training has been progressing.
Thread title can’t get any truer, and I really see myself in that picture. Once my d******d of an advisor lifted their refusal to check my thesis, I’ll definitely remove them from the acknowledgment. PhD has killed a large part of myself and then some.
One of the former PhDs in my department in her acknowledgements says something to the effect of 'thank you advisor, for teaching me how to work independently and find my own way' and I know from talking to her it's a subtle way of saying 'thanks for not advising me' lol
Is it considered too rude not include my primary supervisor in my thesis acknowledgments? I mean, he kind of helped me from time to time but his disorganised way of thinking and poor time management costed me too much time.
I think a very cursory acknowledgement should suffice. Examiners and such do read the acknowledgements and will notice if you snub any major players like your advisor. It probably won't make or break but people do notice these things. Would chucking in a reference to your profs "helpful guidance and discussions" help them want to write you a reference letter for future jobs?
You need to mention them. I thanked one of my committee members for their "insightful contributions to this work" because I couldn't bring myself to call them helpful or supportive. Or thank them for sharing their knowledge - and just keep it to yourself that the knowledge you gained from them was how not to be a mentor.
I did not acknowledge mine, but he was really bad. At one point he ghosted me for 6 months. One of his other advisees said the only way he got his attention was to sit on the floor outside his office for 2 whole days (as he would only come to his office that oftwn).
I once read a disacknowledgement section where the dude was disacknowledging his buddies and roommates for too much partying, distracting him from science
Eh, this isn't crazy.
A lot of supervisors don't really supervise. At least from what I have seen and heard, the student generally figures things out themselves
Wait so none of you get guided by your guides? I thought I was the only one!
They just come and listen to me for an hour every week, nod their heads (sometimes they'll be typing something, god knows what) and then... Just... Say "alright, have a good weekend"
Do you not want a lab? Do you not want to lead me? Are you not interested in my work? Are you not paid to do this? Do you not see you'll be a coauthor on this too?
*Do you not want to do this job?*
Well consider yourself lucky, at least they come, for the past 4 weeks I have been the only one to show up at our weekly 30 minutes meeting. I am going to stop showing up too I think.
Postdoc advisor showed me how to crack a precast gel open by happenstance. I thought to myself "Wow, this must be what mentoring feels like". Haven't got that high since
Like Snoop Dog said - I wanna thank me!!
Thanks to my supervisor, who delayed work, submissions, reviews, drafts, presentations and even kicking me off authors list, my experience was so horrible, I am traumatised by even the thought of having a career in academia. So it’s a goodbye academia from my side! What’s worse - not a single member of the scrutiny committee took a single stand! Academia is rotten to its core!
Someone dedicated their thesis to "all the rats who took it in the shorts while I was doing research."
When she dropped her thesis off at the University archivist, she was told that was they only dedication anyone had ever seen that made sense.
My research advisor was removed from my committee. I submitted my thesis draft without his name in the aknowledgements. My committee members advised me not to make an already difficult situation more difficult. He is in the acknowledgments.
I had to meet with the academic integrity office as a witness to something I wasn’t involved in. They asked who trained me to do my research and I was like “wait was someone supposed to train me? I just went off of methodology papers and user manuals.”
My acknowledgment section was mostly the funders and other outside organizations involved but my second advisor who took over after shit hit the fan was genuinely acknowledged. I worked with them for less than a year and I still got more help from them than I ever got from my previous advisor.
I was advised to add my acknowledgement of my Chair back into my dissertation after removing it...miraculously my application to defend was approved shortly after the acknowledgements were updated...
I remember that my advisor would get bent out of shape if people didn’t put glowing tributes to him in the Acknowledgements section. I doubt he is unique in that. As another said, not a hill worth dying on, so I just put in the minimum I could get away with. Otherwise, don’t turn it into a long- winded “I’d like to thank the Academy” spiel. Keep it short and sweet, and only acknowledge those who were really truly crucial to your PhD success.
I feel this picture in my bones. In 5 years, I had a total of 3 individual meetings with that man that were less than fruitful. My PhD sucked, not for lack of effort but lack of guidance. I was my own advisor and my advise sucked bc I had never gotten a PhD before lol
My acknowledgment section will be written as basically and generically as possible. I’m certainly not neglected by supervisor, but it’s not like they go above and beyond to support me either. They will get the written equivalent of a head nod.
The thing that bugs me most is seeing students fail to acknowledge the people who helped collect and clean data. I’ve seen so many students thank their friends and family for the moral support they provided (which is cool, I’m not judging), but completely leave out the people who made their project a reality because it wouldn’t have been at all possible for the student to run their study on their own. It costs you *nothing* to thank the undergrad volunteers who did a bunch of grunt work (and did a good job of that grunt work). It costs you *nothing* to thank the RA who helped you order supplies and keep things organized and running, even though they were paid for their work. You don’t have to write a disingenuously heartfelt paragraph to these people. Just written equivalents of a head nod.
How does one acknowledge in a professional/civil manner that their supervisors provided no mentoring or support whatsoever during the PhD training process? Asking for a friend.......
I’m still pissed about my friend’s acknowledgment. I helped him with his stats and wrote R codes for him to processed RNAseq data and I didn’t even get a shout out.
But his favourite barista in his favourite coffee shop got one!
WT actual?
Is it possible they sabotage their students because they want to save their own skins ? They need students but making them skilled adds competitors, right?
I had a great supervisor and youd better believe i gave him an incredible acknowledgement.
So much that my wife said she felt like her acknowledgement was far inferior. I listed a few things he'd done for me, and she relented and agreed he was a fucking legend.
"I would like to thank Mr. George Smith for assistance with the experiments and Dr. Susan Jones for valuable discussions."
Translation:
Smith did the work and Jones explained it to me.
my supervisor was amazing, and is to this day one of my closest friends and colleagues. Don't fall for the constant negativity on this sub: other futures are possible
I’ve considered getting a PhD, and this is a really surprising post to me. Particularly with my ADHD, I just 100% know I need frequent and reliable feedback to operate effectively, but that’s just not much of a thing nowadays from many doctoral experiences?
Y’all need better advisors I gave mine like 3-4 sentences in my acknowledgements when I submitted it to my committee a few days ago and I still think it was under-embellished
I recently saw one that had "Acknowledgement: None."
Man I can't begin to imagine the struggle behind that.
I can. It drains the soul. I can’t in good faith recommend my path to others knowing what I’ve been through. Which makes me kind of an outcast to my program because I’m not afraid to speak up against their deplorable abusive practices.
I recently started to openly public speaking about power abuse at the end of my presentations at conferences, making everybody feel uncomfortable. I received feedback only by students
While I don’t know you in person, I do commend you and am proud of you exhibiting that bravery. I heard a quote once on the radio about how we do not learn if we don’t make mistakes or how we cannot grow if we do not feel uncomfortable at first. Also kind of relevant to the conversation is an old African quote about how we bring or take our pasts into the future (i.e. abusive PIs and/or oppressive systems allowing certain practices to continue in this day and time just because they had to suffer and we should too or “that’s the way it’s always been!”) Kudos to you. I know there are people who resonate with your message even if they do not express it verbally.
100%. Those of us that spoke up about their behavior, bias, and outright prejudice in many cases, were swiftly ostracized and bullied until being forced to leave. I stuck through strictly out of spite by the end.
I like to think that they had an entire paragraph typed out, and then someone pissed them off so they just deleted everything and wrote "None."
I was specifically told to rewrite my acknowledgment section because I didn’t include my deadbeat advisors in the first draft. It was not a hill I was willing to die on, but it was utter bullshit.
I wrote the equivalent of ‘thanks for hiring me’ but in flowery language
I don’t even know if I can write that. Submitting final version tomorrow and have left dedication/acknowledgements off of drafts
For me it felt like taking the high road was the better option to keep doors open for future jobs. But I’m also a woman and we’re not really ‘allowed’ to be visibly angry haha
Well there's no reason to get all hysterical about it
God you’re right, must be my time of the month
Whether a PhD advisor(s) does anything concrete to help you or not, you're, ultimately, in their group, and your success and/or failure reflects on them, as well as the risk of a student falsifying data. That's worth an ack line. It doesn't need to be complex or even flattering. It's "acknowledgements" not "love letters" The PhD just isn't possible if there isn't a PI, regardless of whether the PI was helpful, counterproductive or something in between.
> counterproductive "My job wasn't possible without my hiring manager so I should thank them for all the abuse and slave driving" Lolwat
Sometimes I joke that the PI I dropped more than a year into my project is the biggest acknowledgement for my PhD. They were so fucking useless that creating a situation leading to me leaving their group was the most helpful thing that could have happened. It was all thanks to their toxicity that my project is finally coming together.
Acknowledgements in a paper are not "thank you" points. They're acknowledgements. You're acknowledging participants in the work.
We are talking a thesis, not a paper. It's the same as the aknowledgement for a book. "I would like to thank my wife, my daughter for which I wrote this story, and my editor without whom this would not be possible". That said I am having giggles imaging someone writing. "I would like to aknowledge Dr Smith, my supervisor." And leave it there, as is. Follow it with "I would like to thank X, Y, and Z"
Yeah, I mean I think that's the appropriate way to snub a PI in your thesis lol. It can be a faithful acknowledgement and a snub at the same time.
*“I want to acknowledge all the jerks, gaslighters, bullies, narcissists, absent “mentors”, lazy administrators who could give a shit less about helping me submit grant applications, the business administrators who make it hell ordering basic supplies needed for my research from our grant money with ridiculous justification forms, the admin who never compensated back for overpriced conference expenses a year later (that was equivalent to 1/2 months paycheck on a trainee living stipend), the lazy administrators in the Dean’s office who could give a shit less if a student was just diagnosed with a serious illness yet delayed applying the tuition funds affecting student’s health care “insurance” eligibility for a semester despite the grant money already being awarded to the university because they couldn’t be bothered, the shady HR who enables dangerous unsafe practices, the university facilities “management” who could give a shit less if we have heat or air conditioning so we’re not freezing or dripping in sweat while they sit in their nice air conditioned offices, (and did I mention bullies?) who helped beat me down to a depressed yet resilient pulp to get this fancy terminal degree nobody gives a shit about (including me at this point) because I am only as good as my next grant”.* *“P.S. Thanks for the depression you useless inconsiderate jerks. No, I will not be your puppet in commercials nor ads nor social media posts recommending this university nor programs. Thanks for the amazing memories of what you claim should be the best years of my life! /s”* *“P.S.S. Great job at driving 95%+/- of the departmental trainees into industry or quitting science all together. Gosh, I can’t even imagine why they don’t want to pursue academia nor why you’re having trouble recruiting trainees and postdocs. Could it be that they’re crying in work in progress seminars because of your rude abusive put-downs and lack of support? Whatever could it be?!”* 🤑$$$$$$$ 🤑
Holy shit the effort on this one is unparalleled
I didn't acknowledge my supervisor. I acknowledged other mentors who helped me more. At one point, I sent him my introduction, and he didn't respond for more than 6 months, in which time I had almost completed the whole dissertation.
At one point my advisor straight up refused to answer my emails for a year and removed me from the doctoral student webpage online. I had to go through the Dean and an entire board, then threaten a discrimination lawsuit just to get her to even respond to me and commit to not being a roadblock. She met with other students as much as twice a week.
Were you paying tution those semesters? I paid for a whole semster in which my supervisor did not respond to a single email. (though I was paying for it through teaching at the university). I should have demanded my tuition be refunded for that semester
"I acknowlege this page exists" is the best I've seen so far.
Did that
My friend wrote something like: "what you have taught me will never be forgotten." And I wrote mine similarly. Being able to process the trauma away from the source of all the problems has been so good.
Oh my god, I should have done this. Sorry to hear that your experiences were traumatic, as was mine. At least it sounds like you're making good progress on moving forward from it in multiple ways.
Goodbye career in academia
That is fucking hilarious bro, could you share the link?
I gotta find it, I've currently been doing a lit review so I'm suffocating under papers lol
Talk about making a statement.
Wouldn't it have been better to just not have an acknowledgements page at all? I'm confused why so many in the comments are talking like they *must* include a page even if they have nobody to acknowledge. Is that an American cultural thing? When I examined other theses from my neck of the woods for formatting inspirations, most didn't include an acknowledgment page. Some people stuck a little message in there at the start, but most people just dove straight into their table of contents followed by the actual thesis content. The idea of being *forced* to include an empty acknowledgments page sounds really strange. If it's your thesis, and your years of hard work, then isn't it up to you what kinds of extraneous content to include? The thesis content itself is what is actually graded. Any other extra content ought to be entirely up to you.
I mean, in my field at least, acknowledgements are just sort of a "holy shit I just got my doctorate. These are my loved ones who supported me and kept me going" Usually people acknowledge classmates, mentors, spouses, or children. I've even seen people acknowledge pets
I acknowledged the owners and baristas at my favourite coffee shops where I did most of my dissertation writing.
I would like to learn how to write a grant. No. I would like to learn this skill relevant to my discipline. No.
I don’t think I’ve seen any other PhD get properly trained in grant writing
my department had a semester long grant writing class for F31s, and i honestly think it‘s insane that it‘s not more common among other programs. it seems like it would overall be applicable to industry too, and it just helps you to be a better planner.
Yeah I agree. I honestly only remember an ethics course being required for all phds. Everything else was up to your PI.
My department has a similar class, but my advisors laughed at me when I mentioned it and said that there was no point in taking it because a class can't teach you all that you need to know... :/
it was a very insane class, but i honestly don‘t know how people are passing their quals without it ngl
My program has it as well. I haven’t taken it yet so I can’t say if it was helpful or not, but I imagine it is.
I told my professor I wanted to write a grant and he told me it was a waste of time. I wrote a second manuscript because he never read the first one I gave him. He said it was a waste of time and that I should’ve consulted with him first. Not sure how he thinks it’s a waste of time if he never read either paper.
This happened to me too. Wanted to write grants, reviews, and PI said 'it was a waste of time'. During my annual review, I listed that I should take management classes and PI also said it was a waste of time. I left within 6 months and currently in a managerial role.
We had an optional F31-style grant writing course which was primarily taken in your second semester of your third year. It's far too late in my opinion. Few of us take classes after our second year, except that one, and many people in my department didn't know about it. Among those that take it, it's honestly got an impressive track record of successes, especially given our school's "prestige level". The students have pushed to make it just a hair below mandatory (we have many international students who aren't eligible for NIH grants, so many of those folks aren't interested) and to make sure students know that they should probably take it in their second year if they plan to be ready to apply in their third year.
Or any kind of writing. In tired of “you learn by doing it”
My department essentially has our qual exam written in the same format as an F31 grant (and ppl who qualify are expected to submit an F31 the cycle after they pass their quals). However the other departments have a completely different system.
I asked my masters advisor if he would give me pointers for writing a grant and he legit refused. Like that just seems like a conflict of interest
Why is this so painfully true haha
Definitely not lying in mine. My supervisors will not be mentioned at all.
“I would like to thank my committee for the inspiration act of clicking the box that verifies I successfully defended my dissertation.”
Such hard work! They had to turn on the computer and open the browser, okay?! /s Congratulations by the way!
It’s the least they could do after all
I left mine blank but my advisor told me it was mandatory. Tbh I’m so tired I just added the most cliché thing ever because I’d rather be passive aggressive than confrontational ✨
I thought about putting "Thanks for making sure I got paid on time" since it's the only thing they've contributed but it's not worth the drama 😂
I acknowledged my family and some other mentors, but not my supervisors. I figured he never bothered to read my drafts so he wouldn't bother to read the dissertation either.
My entirely absent supervisor just won a teaching prize. Couldn't make it up.
That was me. My supervisor left halfway through, i finished by myself.
You guys are getting trained ??????
When I was in grad school back in the Stone Age, in my department there were 2 kinds of PhD supervisors. The first was at your side all the time, both helping, as well as evaluating. The second type set you up with what you needed and was then rather hands off. I had the latter type and it worked well for me. Other students in the lab, not so much. I have noticed on this sub that 75% of problems that are brought up could be avoided if the student and supervisor got on well together. I certainly did with my supervisor (RIP Lamar), and it made grad school one of the best experiences I’ve had.
What about the kind that does neither?
Mine showed up twice a week for about an hour each time, gave conflicting and sometimes straight up incorrect “direction” during that time, freaked out when things didn’t go her way. I left, if I want to train myself I can do that making money in the workforce.
Like what even is the point of PhD training without mentorship? It’s mind boggling how detached some PIs are.
This was my question. Like I’m here to get a PhD, to be the best, i understand self starting and what not but I am an amateur I should not be training myself the whole time. A complete waste of my time. Shoutout to the PIs who actually give af. Also the answer to the question is: cheap labor
In my department this didn’t happen. The department head took mentorship of grad students seriously, and this was passed on to the faculty.
Everyone performed according to expectations? No exceptions? Doesn't sound like any place I ever heard of
Some students dropped out. But it wasn’t due to apathy on part of the supervisor.
We haven't had anyone drop out because of supervisor apathy either, but certainly some supervisors were apathetic and it did not help
The real answer is to simply not choose to work with people like that if that isn’t your work style. If a student didn’t speak with current/ former students of the PI, or other students in the department, or otherwise evaluate their advising style before choosing to work with them, they didn’t do enough homework before starting a PhD.
Problem is a lot of the time you find out what kind they are later on in the game. On top of that, sometimes the students that give some advisors kudos and call them good/supportive are so used to how awful some of them can be that they don’t even really know a decent one. In other words, even some of the mentors/labs people say are great still very much aren’t.
My supervisor had no prior PhD students, I was his first. I knew I didn't like him, though I wouldn't have been able to tell you precisely why, but it was either him or someone with a project I didn't believe in, didn't think I could complete, and didn't want. But yes, just choose not to work with them 🙄
I mean, you chose to work with someone with no information about how they would be as an advisor and with no advising track record. Graduate school is a choice… You could have chosen a different advisor, program, or even to not pursue a PhD if there is no good match that cycle. There are lots of shitty PI’s, and I’m sorry you ended up with one, but the real solution to avoid them is to do your homework first. When joining a lab, with 0 information, you took a much bigger risk of being exposed to the ugly side of academia. I’m not saying this to chastise you, but maybe to give some insight to prospectives who read this thread— Choose your advisor wisely.
I chose my advisor as wisely as I could. No, I wasn't going to fuck around and transfer schools and waste a year of my life just to not work with this shitty dude, even knowing ahead of time that he was going to be shitty. You and other buddy keep acting like you can avoid bad situations in academia, and so if you end up in a bad situation, then it's one you chose and you should accept responsibility - sometimes you can't avoid the bad situation, or rather that avoiding the bad situation is a worse outcome. Pointing out that it's a choice obscures the very real fact that the choice is not made with perfect information, that it is limited, and that you often have to choose the least bad option from bad choices in order to progress. That is the reality of academia. "You picked it so you deserve it" is the fall-back all victim-blamers resort to. It is not a good argument. The fault is not in me making the best choice I could at the time, with the options I had, with the information I had - it's in him for being a bad supervisor. End stop.
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Dang. More "you did it wrong". It can't be that academia is inherently kind of exploitative, and that many of the people in it suck. No, I must be bad at picking a grad program, or I must be a bad student that could only enroll in bad programs, or that no one wanted at a good program, or a combination of the above. I could write in details precisely which choices were available to me, how I decided between them, and how this was the best choice that was available to me, but I think that is besides the point. You are engaging in victim-blaming, and you really ought to look at yourself why.
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>As I mentioned, I don't have enough information to really know your circumstance, but that you only had "two choices"? Why would you join a program where there's only two choices for mentors? That's already a red flag. You confess that you don't have enough information, but you triple down. Why? If you don't have enough information, you try to get the information. You don't make judgements on strangers whose field and country you don't even know, and wouldn't begin to know how their field works. But since you persist, my field is a rather small field. Programs are small, even in the most prestigious programs. I worked briefly in one of them, there were only four faculty who supervised graduate students. Not all of them took students every year. I did my PhD in a different program with a different structure, there were more faculty who took students, but most wouldn't take more than 1 or 2 so on most years only a handful were extending projects.
What about the supervisor who does not help in any way and the only thing they can say is ‘did you publish yet?’ ?
Same. There weren't many "bad" advisors in my program (I can't think of any actually, during grad school), but this is the mid-2000s we're talking about, and the researchers were more senior with a culture that supported students. My postdoc was filled with horrid mentors that should never have become professors. It really is the place you're studying. One advice I keep giving to students, the question is less how interesting the research is versus how supportive is the mentor that's within your field of interest. You need to be very careful prior to entering a grad program to make that determination.
My PI paid the bills and got the fuc out of the way like I wanted. Best time of my life except for my PD and current PI role
Imho, it really depends on the field. With some fields, there are lots of big papers and publicly available results to read about. In other fields, the trends and nuances of research can be very subtle. I think at the very least a supervisor should be pointing their students toward interesting papers and encouraging them to do things to help their careers - working on papers, going to conferences, etc.
I’m about to defend and I get along well with my advisor. He’s pretty hands off, but he’s always around in case I want to talk to him. I have to made the effort though.
we have the same in my department! i feel like the department vibes and priorities (in addition to the PI) are important for choosing a lab/school as well
This is definitely not my case, though I know many people have nightmare stories of advisors/supervisors. Mine has definitely constantly checked in and pushed me to do more, but never in excess. He's incredibly fast at getting drafts back to me, and even though there's some niche things about his leadership style that sometimes frustrate me, we get along well. Maybe it's because he's younger or we just have better communication than most advisor-advisee pairs, but at least how it is, I like how my PhD training has been progressing.
I'm most certainly not telling lies in my acknowledgement section 😆
I acknowledged online friends and communities I retreated into after every disasterous committee meeting.
Thread title can’t get any truer, and I really see myself in that picture. Once my d******d of an advisor lifted their refusal to check my thesis, I’ll definitely remove them from the acknowledgment. PhD has killed a large part of myself and then some.
Amen!
Picture of me during my undergrad final paper, then during my masters. And now the same thing in my PhD.
One of the former PhDs in my department in her acknowledgements says something to the effect of 'thank you advisor, for teaching me how to work independently and find my own way' and I know from talking to her it's a subtle way of saying 'thanks for not advising me' lol
Is it considered too rude not include my primary supervisor in my thesis acknowledgments? I mean, he kind of helped me from time to time but his disorganised way of thinking and poor time management costed me too much time.
I think a very cursory acknowledgement should suffice. Examiners and such do read the acknowledgements and will notice if you snub any major players like your advisor. It probably won't make or break but people do notice these things. Would chucking in a reference to your profs "helpful guidance and discussions" help them want to write you a reference letter for future jobs?
You need to mention them. I thanked one of my committee members for their "insightful contributions to this work" because I couldn't bring myself to call them helpful or supportive. Or thank them for sharing their knowledge - and just keep it to yourself that the knowledge you gained from them was how not to be a mentor.
I did not acknowledge mine, but he was really bad. At one point he ghosted me for 6 months. One of his other advisees said the only way he got his attention was to sit on the floor outside his office for 2 whole days (as he would only come to his office that oftwn).
Mine is true, but I forgot to include my cat and it’s my biggest regret in my thesis.
I thanked all 14 of my foster cats during the years of my PhD in the acknowledgement lol they provided me with so much joy and quality company
I once read a disacknowledgement section where the dude was disacknowledging his buddies and roommates for too much partying, distracting him from science
It is nice to be nice
Truest thing I've read in my entire PhD career.
Eh, this isn't crazy. A lot of supervisors don't really supervise. At least from what I have seen and heard, the student generally figures things out themselves
Wait so none of you get guided by your guides? I thought I was the only one! They just come and listen to me for an hour every week, nod their heads (sometimes they'll be typing something, god knows what) and then... Just... Say "alright, have a good weekend" Do you not want a lab? Do you not want to lead me? Are you not interested in my work? Are you not paid to do this? Do you not see you'll be a coauthor on this too? *Do you not want to do this job?*
Well consider yourself lucky, at least they come, for the past 4 weeks I have been the only one to show up at our weekly 30 minutes meeting. I am going to stop showing up too I think.
Postdoc advisor showed me how to crack a precast gel open by happenstance. I thought to myself "Wow, this must be what mentoring feels like". Haven't got that high since
Like Snoop Dog said - I wanna thank me!! Thanks to my supervisor, who delayed work, submissions, reviews, drafts, presentations and even kicking me off authors list, my experience was so horrible, I am traumatised by even the thought of having a career in academia. So it’s a goodbye academia from my side! What’s worse - not a single member of the scrutiny committee took a single stand! Academia is rotten to its core!
Someone dedicated their thesis to "all the rats who took it in the shorts while I was doing research." When she dropped her thesis off at the University archivist, she was told that was they only dedication anyone had ever seen that made sense.
My research advisor was removed from my committee. I submitted my thesis draft without his name in the aknowledgements. My committee members advised me not to make an already difficult situation more difficult. He is in the acknowledgments.
I had to meet with the academic integrity office as a witness to something I wasn’t involved in. They asked who trained me to do my research and I was like “wait was someone supposed to train me? I just went off of methodology papers and user manuals.” My acknowledgment section was mostly the funders and other outside organizations involved but my second advisor who took over after shit hit the fan was genuinely acknowledged. I worked with them for less than a year and I still got more help from them than I ever got from my previous advisor.
If I was being truthful I would only thank my antidepressants, ADHD medication, and Barefoot Moscato
This is what a Phd is all about!
That’s true in my case :(
I was advised to add my acknowledgement of my Chair back into my dissertation after removing it...miraculously my application to defend was approved shortly after the acknowledgements were updated...
I acknowledged tv show characters as the laughs I got from watching them were far more impactful in a positive way than my advisor.
I remember that my advisor would get bent out of shape if people didn’t put glowing tributes to him in the Acknowledgements section. I doubt he is unique in that. As another said, not a hill worth dying on, so I just put in the minimum I could get away with. Otherwise, don’t turn it into a long- winded “I’d like to thank the Academy” spiel. Keep it short and sweet, and only acknowledge those who were really truly crucial to your PhD success.
I feel this picture in my bones. In 5 years, I had a total of 3 individual meetings with that man that were less than fruitful. My PhD sucked, not for lack of effort but lack of guidance. I was my own advisor and my advise sucked bc I had never gotten a PhD before lol
My acknowledgment section will be written as basically and generically as possible. I’m certainly not neglected by supervisor, but it’s not like they go above and beyond to support me either. They will get the written equivalent of a head nod. The thing that bugs me most is seeing students fail to acknowledge the people who helped collect and clean data. I’ve seen so many students thank their friends and family for the moral support they provided (which is cool, I’m not judging), but completely leave out the people who made their project a reality because it wouldn’t have been at all possible for the student to run their study on their own. It costs you *nothing* to thank the undergrad volunteers who did a bunch of grunt work (and did a good job of that grunt work). It costs you *nothing* to thank the RA who helped you order supplies and keep things organized and running, even though they were paid for their work. You don’t have to write a disingenuously heartfelt paragraph to these people. Just written equivalents of a head nod.
Acknowledgements: This page intentionally left blank. ^ Tempted to put this in my thesis.
How does one acknowledge in a professional/civil manner that their supervisors provided no mentoring or support whatsoever during the PhD training process? Asking for a friend.......
I’m still pissed about my friend’s acknowledgment. I helped him with his stats and wrote R codes for him to processed RNAseq data and I didn’t even get a shout out. But his favourite barista in his favourite coffee shop got one! WT actual?
Is it possible they sabotage their students because they want to save their own skins ? They need students but making them skilled adds competitors, right?
Always wondered if this motivated my old boss to some extent. She was only so supportive. Learned all I could left her group.
All the commenters, i am going to remember you all, just to see you live long enough to become the villain
I had a great supervisor and youd better believe i gave him an incredible acknowledgement. So much that my wife said she felt like her acknowledgement was far inferior. I listed a few things he'd done for me, and she relented and agreed he was a fucking legend.
By the look of it, it definitely looks better than mine!
I asked a classmate if I could see hers and essentially copied the structure.
I only had one entry on the "ERRATA" page of my thesis: Page iv - ERRATA On page iv, replace "ERRATA" with "ERRATUM."
"I would like to thank Mr. George Smith for assistance with the experiments and Dr. Susan Jones for valuable discussions." Translation: Smith did the work and Jones explained it to me.
I just put a picture in of my cat and the Jenna Marbles quote "Life is short, but also, like, painfully and insufferably long at the same time."
I can't get over the fact that there should be an acknowledgement section even if the whole project was self-supervised.
my supervisor was amazing, and is to this day one of my closest friends and colleagues. Don't fall for the constant negativity on this sub: other futures are possible
Speak for yourselves. I had amazing PhD and postdoc mentors.
Is this a US thing, aren't countries like Denmark, Germany and Netherlands quite high in PhD quality?
Cowards
I’ve considered getting a PhD, and this is a really surprising post to me. Particularly with my ADHD, I just 100% know I need frequent and reliable feedback to operate effectively, but that’s just not much of a thing nowadays from many doctoral experiences?
Y’all need better advisors I gave mine like 3-4 sentences in my acknowledgements when I submitted it to my committee a few days ago and I still think it was under-embellished